DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 6

[highwideandugly]

Clear blue skies..so can't be Teesside !!!

[Robert-Ryan]

Another new tenant setting up shop, Scenic Air Tours North East

[EGPO]

I could see BMIR being a potential there, probably not Flybe unless by some miracle they add another airframe to DSA and did some limited W patterns to unserved destinations.
I am surprised DTV has no connection to Jersey given 80% of airports have that connection.
Southampton I was told is popular due to connecting to cruise liners?.
And I have said before and will again TUI need to return but I'd bet they would only offer similar to the HUY offerings.
It seems monumentally stupid to let it go under, seems your local MP isn't earning their keep!.

[oldart]

Oldart a Google gives you this:


https://twitter.com/sycamoresales?lang=en

I guess the answer seems to be no, could do with the blue skies though!

[Robert-Ryan]

I am surprised DTV has no connection to Jersey given 80% of airports have that connection.
We do...seasonal with Flybe

And I have said before and will again TUI need to return but I'd bet they would only offer similar to the HUY offerings.
Not profitable unless in mass volume

I guess the answer seems to be no, could do with the blue skies though!
They are very busy, just in the US and not here at DTVA

[No-More-Bullschit]

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/15294035.Plans_unveiled_for_redevelopment_of_Durham_Tees_Val ley_Airport/?c=ob6j32c65zlc4yt4kj4i

[Robert-Ryan]

Curious. When they redeveloped 18-24 months ago they stopped short of doing the foyer area, leaving passengers with the same poor impression when they walk through the doors, and now they're redoing what they already did?! I mean, I'm glad they are, it looks good and I'm glad the passengers will be able to see their PFFs finally going towards something, but surely it makes the first refurbishment a waste of money?!

[SWBKCB]

How revamped Durham Tees Valley Airport passenger lounge will look following 'significant' improvements - Gazette Live (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/how-revamped-durham-tees-valley-13053214)

Bit more detail in the Gazette - KLM will be pleased :ok:

[HH6702]

Must have another airline coming in or some new international routes if duty free opening up again ?

[Robert-Ryan]

DOs going 24H at the start of April, exec handling in house at the start of May, upgrade to CAT6 fire cover at the start of June, and now a terminal investment...these are not the moves of a company with ill intent!!

My gut is they are just trying to make us look more appealing to potential operators rather than they are about to announce something

[SWBKCB]

or keeping the main incumbent happy?

Having not been inside the terminal for years, what surprises me from the current renderings is how small it now is.

[tigertanaka]

Must have another airline coming in or some new international routes if duty free opening up again ?

The duty free bit is interesting as there is no way it would make money from a 3x daily to AMS mainly full of businesspeople and a seasonal weekly to JER. In a post Brexit world, duty free could become a big money spinner again.

Alternatively it could be that WH Smith are pulling out and there would be a new newspaper/magazine/snacks/duty free shop in their place? I can never figure how WHS manage to keep two shops running with fresh stock at MME.

[SWBKCB]

The press release does say "improved retail services under a new ‘Xpress’ brand." Another service being brought in house?

[N707ZS]

The previous work improved the toilets but the rest of it is still unsightly and the new upgrade will be an improvement. On close inspection I see its just the departure area not the check-in area that does need a little TLC.

[Get me some traffic]

Any sign of access to the airport improving? Public transport is laughable!! It is easier to get to LBA than MME from N Yorks.

[oldart]

or keeping the main incumbent happy?

Having not been inside the terminal for years, what surprises me from the current renderings is how small it now is.

That was always the beauty of the terminal, 50 yards from the front door to the plane.

[highwideandugly]

Terrible Terminal figures again from DTV for April. It's interesting the earlier comments from SWB regarding keeping current operators (incumbent s) happy..makes you wonder if any mileage in that.
8400 total AMS passengers down 7/8 % yet again means the airport must improve its product or face probable pressure from operators?
Don't forget the figures also included Easter.
With the ever decreasing passengers numbers the fact that the terminal front is only 50 yards from the aircraft means FoDTV members will be able to give piggy backs direct without getting too fatigued!!

[Robert-Ryan]

Not to defend the passenger numbers as such, they're not good at all, but both KLM and Eastern are said to be happy with current figures. Does anyone know what 2016's total figures were? I saw somewhere they were up on 2015, but now I've seen somewhere else that they were down?

Whilst the figures are not good, I don't believe Highwide to have any genuine concerns about them, the tone of his post suggests s:mad:t stirring and the timing suggests he wishes to counteract a piece of good news.

[highwideandugly]

RR. Not stirring,these are the facts.The passenger figures are well down already against previous very poor figures.
Not my thread re the reasons behind the long overdue terminal improvements..but as I said and hinted at by others,maybe pressure placed on PEEL to actually improve the customer experience..hence the welcome announcements?
KLM surely deserve this after their commitment to the airport?

The piggy back comment was tongue in cheek! Used to be called a joke?

[Robert-Ryan]

Something has to be funny before it qualifies as a joke.

Good luck to all those involved in Skylive tomorrow, I think you'll need it looking at the weather forecast!

[jamesgrainge]

Everyone enjoy the airshow today if going, especially good luck to everyone involved and my friends at PTT who are putting in alot of effort!

[P330]

Any reviews of the airshow?

Some interesting comments around no shows and poor reporting on the Gazette today.

[highwideandugly]

They tried..last year and this..it's a difficult business..aviation and air shows.
Probably too much competition and other world events?

DTV seems to have a downer on aviation enterprises?

Well done though and good luck for next year!

[Robert-Ryan]

Despite having a great deal thrown at them, the event was a second success

[highwideandugly]

Quiet thread again and as I've been told before..if nothing is happening nothing will be listed?? Sad really..how about a chat guys??...

So how was the Airshow?...not much input on this forum? Lot of hard work put in by the guys on the ground??

[No-More-Bullschit]

Perhaps no news is good news given folk only bother to talk about the bad news and have a tendency to overlook anything good.

As for the air show, as Robert says it was a success but by a smaller margin...more to learn from and more complaints but luckily not enough to outweigh the compliments.

Sunderland Council are said to have pulled the funding for Sunderland Airshow next year so I would imagine that will go massively in Skylive's favour as they'll be the only game in town

[mercurydancer]

Another flight from DTV and another bad experience. Flew to AMS a couple of months ago. On a very cold morning.

I do understand the need for security. No problem at all. However, I am asthmatic and very cold air can set my asthma off. First of all, I put my medications (inhalers) in one bag and other liquids in another. I was advised to do this at LHR. Got criticised for this by security. I was starting to feel ill by the time my bags were x-rayed and said to the security that I would need the inhaler, quickly. I was told very sharply to wait until they had finished. By that time I was struggling to breathe. Someone suggested that I needed a drink of water! I needed the inhaler. Quickly. By the time they had inspected it I was quite ill, coughing to the point of vomiting. After getting the inhaler it took me about 30 minutes to return to normal, far more than usual. No objection to inspecting the inhaler, but they failed completely to understand or appreciate my situation.

[N707ZS]

Did you make a formal complaint?

[Robert-Ryan]

Hopefully the security staff despite being contracted by a third party are included in the customer service training mentioned in the terminal redevelopment press release, because I think everyone on here will agree, they would by far benefit the most!

[Piltdown Man]

Mercury - you have described the scum who force "security" down people's necks at DTV very well. They haven't changed their attitude for years. They are part of the reason DTV is a far round the U bend as it is. With a little extra effort they could achieve 100% security.

PM

[highwideandugly]

Talking to a few locals..probably the worst air show ever?
I can't comment as unable to go.

The organising committee did their very best however it's a difficult world in the air show business these days??

My fear is that it reflects on DTV?? It's par for the course ,for there I heard...which is not what we want to hear?

So what now..probably a financial problem ahead..is worth another go??
The rumours are Sunderland might not be on next year as massive problems with finances...or maybe time to call it a day? Who knows..but best of luck with any decisions.
Maybe time for new ideas for progress... attract some business,fuel stops,ferry flights,a low Cost Carrier,maintenance,painting...any ideas welcome...:confused:

[No-More-Bullschit]

Highwide...see my previous post!! :ugh: Happily, the locals maintain their 100% record of being wrong. The air show was a critical success, granted only just...there were more complaints and there is more to learn from, but there were still more positive comments than bad ones on various social media.

[N707ZS]

Maybe time for new ideas for progress... attract some business,fuel stops,ferry flights,a low Cost Carrier,maintenance,painting...any ideas welcome Hopefully this is what might be attracted to the new hangars once the money is released from the housing project.

[jensdad]

Any updates on the rumour of Jet2 starting flying from MME?

[Robert-Ryan]

Not a snowballs chance in hell, I don't even recognise it as a legitimate rumour it's so unlikely...what is a lot more likely (but not guaranteed I fear) is Eastern/Flybe operating a Paris route as shown on the dtv movements website.

[P330]

Paris has a reasonable chance of working IF it has an AF codeshare. If not, and it's purely p2p, then I think it would go the same way as the short lived Brussels flight (also with Eastern).

Paris into 2E would be great for business connections (on AF) as well as city visitors.

Let's hope!

[Bishop01]

I seriously think before any sort of flights going ahead..'including more GA' DTV/peel need to sort out this farce of the ATC shut downs.. its been going on now for far too long... I was picking people up from the evening Lourdes Alba star flight Friday night, when the empty outbound flight missed its slot by minutes, so pilot/crew had to wait an hour while the ATC had their shut down.. and while on the subject of this flight, the inbound flight wasn't even on the flight arrivals board.. but they had the Monarch 737 on a training flight earlier, which did a no show...

I do think if this route does come off though, Eastern is not the answer, as we have found out on previous attempts.. but at least its a step in the rite direction... Hope i'm roved wrong??

[SWBKCB]

Paris has a reasonable chance of working IF it has an AF codeshare

But AF/KLM then end up competing with themselves on AMS?

[highwideandugly]

Paris..wow..that's a departure (pun) from the usual letter A departures!!

Will it work..time will tell....
However with a probable once a day. Middle of day? Flight,does this really see a change of tact by PEEL? If so. As staffed up for this flight..how about reaching out to a tour operator and get a holiday type operation at the same time??

[onion]

But AF/KLM then end up competing with themselves on AMS?

But Flybe/Eastern won't be flying to AMS!
If you are referring to interlining through Paris instead of AMS I'm sure other airports manage it where KL and AF fly to AMS and CDG respectively!

[NorthSouth]

But AF/KLM then end up competing with themselves on AMS?Surely this is the critical point. From somewhere like DTV, a Paris flight is only going to work as a connection to an international transit hub. But if it's one flight in the middle of the day and competing with KLM, how can it possibly work?

[SWBKCB]

if you're on an AF codeshare, that's effectively AF, so they are competing to some extent (but also to some extent complementary as on some routes it might be more conventinet to fly out AF and back KL.

however, looking at the a/c size and number of flights, AMS is probably at the bottom end of viability. If AF start nicking transit pax of KL, could end up cannabilising the route.

All depends on how big the market is - and to some extent they will be complementary as on some routes it might be more convient to fly out AF and back KL.

Eastern provide four aircraft under the Flybe brand

The deal will see Eastern Airways fly routes previously flown in a franchise agreement with Loganair, namely Aberdeen-Sumburgh, Glasgow-Sumburgh, Edinburgh-Sumburgh, Glasgow-Manchester, Aberdeen-Kirkwall, and Glasgow-Stornoway.

In addition, Eastern will also fly routes between Aberdeen, Norwich, Teesside, Newcastle, Southampton, Leeds, Cardiff and Paris from September 1.

Has anybody worked out the number of A/C needed for this lot - also, just to be a doom monger, aren't all the points in the final quote on the current Eastern network? Maybe it's just the existing flights becoming Flybe codeshares rather than being new routes from the UK to Paris?

[EK77WNCL]

Huge misunderstanding here, all the article is saying is that Eastern have bases at those airports.

I don't think any of those routes would EVER work for eastern, unless an existing flybe route that needed a reduction in capacity like Southampton-Paris

Also, Eastern are based at Orly, Flybe and Air France at Charles de Gaulle

dtvmovements really clutching at straws here I'm afraid. It is a slightly confusing article, but I struggle to see how anyone could think that was an announcement of a Flybe/Eastern Teesside-Paris flight. Who would pay £400+ for that when you can spend half the money on KLM? And realistically Paris isn't that huge from a lot of UK markets... It wouldn't work. London, Dublin, Belfast, Spain, Canaries, Balearics, Greece, Bulgaria, Portugal... Yes. Paris, not so much

[Robert-Ryan]

EK77WNCL - yes the article does say that Eastern have bases at those airports, but the paragraph preceeding that one reads as follows:

In addition, Eastern will also fly routes between Aberdeen, Norwich, Teesside, Newcastle, Southampton, Leeds, Cardiff and Paris from September 1.

Whilst I agree completely this is not by a long shot confirmed as definite yet, I believe it holds more potential than people are giving it credit for.

Also who says it's going to be £400+ ?! If Flybe have a hand in it it may well be sold as a low cost route?

And to defend the movements website they have acknowledged that the article may be clutching at straws with a disclaimer.

[onion]

The key is how you read the list. Is it a list including Paris or a list of routes too Paris. The key phrase is "and Paris".
English don't you just love it! 😈

[SWBKCB]

No mention of new routes, so it does seem to be just code-sharing on existing services

EASTERN AIRWAYS AND FLYBE TO FORM AN ALLIANCE | Eastern Airways (http://www.easternairways.com/news/43/eastern-airways-and-flybe-to-form-an-alliance)

Flybe Agreement with Eastern Airways (http://otp.investis.com/clients/uk/flybe1/rns/regulatory-story.aspx?cid=59&newsid=880059)

[22/04]

It's not a codeshare but a franchise as I read. All BE flight number not EZE ones

[N707ZS]

I see the airport has a new M.P wonder if he can do more than mayor Parmo and his mate Mr Wharton.

[highwideandugly]

Doubt it..these guys are all talk! But there will be plenty of bravado,bluster and promises!

[EK77WNCL]

In the event that Jet2 were to base an aircraft or 2 at MME, would they be able to use the existing NCL crew base? I could see scope for 1 based 733 with a few routes... Say:

Alicante (x3), Palma (x3), Malaga (x2), Faro (X2), Tenerife (x2), Lanzarote (x1), Rhodes (x1)

Monday: ALC/AGP

Tuesday: FAO/TFS

Wednesday: ALC/RHO

Thursday: PMI/ACE

Friday: AGP/TFS

Saturday: FAO/PMI

Sunday: ALC/PMI

[highwideandugly]

Doubt any of those will happen..for a start you need to employ ATC amongst others..what comes first? Does PEEL employ more airport staff first or wait for the contracts to roll in?
Wonder what kind of employer PEEL is and what the locals really think!!

It's obviously being run on a shoestring..unfortunately,understandably?

To coin a couple of well worn phrases,

Speculate to accumulate and build it,they will come!!

[SWBKCB]

Easy to say with somebody else's money :ok:

Wasn't a great success last time.

[N707ZS]

Would the neighbours price cut or subsidise to prevent these flights making any profit if they ever did start.

[TSR2]

Just a load of spotters dreams.

[EK77WNCL]

Hardly a spotters dream... One 737 supporting a market that is there, but is leaking onto the exact same 737's out of LBA and NCL.

MME's immediate catchment is not far short of a million, and the airport has previously supported flights to almost all of the destinations I've mentioned, as well as more city routes.

Over your standard summer season, March-October, about 30 weeks. 148 seats on a 737 300, x2 flights a day.

Daily: 592 seats
Weekly: 4,144 seats
Seasonally: 124,320 seats

Although realistically, schedules wouldn't ramp up properly until May, and would start winding down in September, so realistically you're talking 100,000 or less. This would be huge for MME, it would double passenger numbers, but is by no means undoable, and hopefully would bring in other carriers. Thomson (ALC/PMI/TFS), Balkan (BOJ) and Ryanair (DUB) might want back in if Jet2 taps the demand and makes the operation sustainable.

And I think this can be done with little to no effect on existing operations at MME, NCL or LBA

EDIT: Too much time on my hands, I wanted to try and do this properly to see the numbers stack up

737 300: 148 seats each way = 296 per route

* donates potential year round flights

Alicante*: 26/03-28/10, (x3wk 02/05-26/09)

-- 84 flights - (296*84) = 24,864

Palma: 29/03-28/10, (x3wk 05/05-29/09)

-- 84 flights - (296*84) = 24,864

Malaga*: 26/03-26/10

-- 62 flights - (296*62) = 18,352

Faro: 27/03-23/10 (x2wk 05/05-29/09)

-- 53 flights - (296*53) = 15,688

Tenerife*: 30/03-26/10 (x2wk 01/05-25/09)

-- 53 flights - (296*53) = 15,688

Lanzarote*: 29/03-25/10

-- 31 flights - (296*31) = 9,176

Rhodes: 02/05-26/09

-- 22 flights - (296*22) = 6,512

This rather generous and optimistic schedule would all result in an annual total of 115,144 seats. Based roughly on Jet2's average 90.8% load factor, we could assume an additional 104,551 passengers would pass through MME.

Doing crude calculations, this would mean a 78.98% increase in passenger numbers and up to £313,650 in development fees. All from 1 737...

[highwideandugly]

But you are missing the main point..the owners don't want flights..solution ,get new owners..obvious!!??

[oldart]

But you are missing the main point..the owners don't want flights..solution ,get new owners..obvious!!??

At what price? The councils would certainly not buy it back, any ideas for buyers, I don't have any.

[Beafer]

Re the owners, they are more interested in other ventures at the moment.
Leek
Utility Week ? Ancala Partners and Peel Group launch joint venture (http://utilityweek.co.uk/news/ancala-partners-and-peel-group-launch-joint-venture/1302692)

Renewable energy
Peel Ports Group partners with A&P Group to serve booming offshore wind sector (http://www.owjonline.com/news/view,peel-ports-group-partners-with-ap-group-to-serve-booming-offshore-wind-sector_47996.htm)

Teesside airport was bought for the land plain and simple.
The councillors on the airport board went along with the gifting of the airports 800 acres for £500k, for whatever reason.
Some say its all part of a funny handshake agreements and lodge meetings. It might explain why the councils or the airport won't reveal the sale agreement documents over ten years later! Whats to hide???

When the houses are being built the owners will show their true colours but they are in no rush. Word on the street is the new Mayor has been told he has no buying power but he's welcome to use the facilities ;)

[Robert-Ryan]

Seems everything is p:mad:g me off today - are we really going to go over this again?!

But you are missing the main point..the owners don't want flights..solution ,get new owners..obvious!!??
This is your opinion, do not state it as fact.

Most on here do not need me to remind them that leisure flights are not profitable, something myself and others struggled to prove at first but thankfully is now widely accepted within the industry. You make profit from retail, car parking etc, but it takes mass volume to unlock this profit, volume that DTVA has never had. So yes, Peel's focus may be on other areas of aviation and non-aviation, but that does not mean they are purposely not looking for new routes, they are always talking to airlines.

As I said previously, DOs going 24H, fire about to go up to CAT6, and a terminal refurbishment, all things that they would not do if they did not want the airport to succeed.

Furthermore, I know a couple of people who have directly asked the CEO of Jet2 face-to-face if they would ever come here, and he has said no because it would be extra expense and they would only be poaching their existing passengers.

So Highwide, wynd your neck in, and Beafer quit with the spamful, largely off topic posts...who gives a monkeys what Peel choose to do away from DTVA?

[EK77WNCL]

If that's true that Mr Meeson has said he's not interested in MME then so be it, but I'd just like to point out that this was probable years ago. Jet2 has only really found it's feet in the last 2/3 years with Jet2holidays/Jet2citybreaks (and I just saw Jet2villas advertised on Facebook yesterday)

Are they not at a point now, where they are large enough to have more "marginal" operations to serve people at their doorstep through Jet2holidays?

When they were solely a scheduled carrier I can understand them not wanting to poach, but (correct me if I'm wrong) the way I see it is that if they set up shop at MME, Teessiders may be more likely to choose Jet2 from MME than TOM/TCX/EZY/FR and yes, indeed LS from NCL or LBA

OF course airport make more on ancillary items like car parking and duty free. But who do you think is paying more for that? Your business traveller off to Amsterdam or Aberdeen for a day or two, or a family heading to the Costas for a fortnight?

I'm probably being overly optimistic but I'd love to see more come out of MME. It'll never compete in the big leagues, but I'm confident it can support it's local market

[SWBKCB]

What has happened to the operators to most recently base units at MME?

How many flights a week did TOM operate out of MME before they were asked to leave?

What Duty Free shop?

Which region of England has the lowest level of disposable household income?

How far from MME are the two Jet2 bases of LBA and NCL?

As Beefer regular points out, Peel are successful large scale developers, so why haven't they done much at MME?

[N707ZS]

TOM was one flight Alicante as they dropped Tenerife. It was ok when they had the based aircraft and extra Ws.


On the up side Monarch must be paying training fees for they're daily visits at the moment.

[Bishop01]

Go easy their Beefer and High&wide... RR has thrown his toys out the pram ...so might leave again and come back under a different username as he's done three times now....:yuk:

and as for the the RR quote...
.....As I said previously, DOs going 24H, fire about to go up to CAT6, and a terminal refurbishment, all things that they would not do if they did not want the airport to succeed..
My opinion...."10 years to late with the terminal etc".. they should have done all this when they had all the pax in 2006... and while we are on about Peel and this airport going places... another ATC shut down!! "shocking" for a International airport!! how long has this been going on for now?? must be well over a year??? FACT!:=

[Beafer]

Touched a nerve there me thinks ;) Its not just me and the locals wondering whats happening at the airport. The Tees Valley Combined Authority are asking as well.

Did the TVCA ever receive any answers from the large Peel organisation or are they being kept secret too?

Peel should be 'held to account' for Teesside's loss-making airport says tough talking new body - Gazette Live (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/peel-should-held-account-teessides-11802663)

I think Peel just think the locals will accept anything they spout. It still makes me wonder why they started swapping partner companies like VAS to another internal part of their spiders web of companies?

Maybe just a way to make the following of shares a bit harder with contracts etc? or to muddy the waters. The public have a right to see the original sale documents. Whats to hide?????

Remember what Peel did to Thomsons. Not wanted... We are not wanted, says Thomson holidays as it announces flights from Durham Tees Valley Airport to be axed (From Darlington and Stockton Times) (http://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.co.uk/news/10768619.We_are_not_wanted__says_Thomson_holidays_as_it_anno unces_flights_from_Durham_Tees_Valley_Airport_to_be_axed/)

[N707ZS]

Ground Hog day! Sure I read the other day something is going to be published with all the answers in!

[Robert-Ryan]

Yes, you have touched a nerve Beafer, never in my 5 decades on this planet have I encountered someone who spouts so much false info!

Bishop, pipe down, 10 years late maybe but at least the actions are there to back up my words, which is a damn sight more than can be said for some users! As for ATC closures, bad customer service yes, but it also happens at several other airports, including Leeds and Newcastle believe it or not though much less frequently...not justifying it, just making it clear it's not just us. And for the umpteenth time, 1st and only account, don't know how many more times I have to say it!! :ugh:

[oldart]

Funny how Mr Hough forgot to mention that it was Peel who turned away Thomson's from the airport. Some flights are better than no flights, the people from the area are desperate for more holiday flights. I guess that some passengers would rather fly from a smaller airport than one that is 'All singing and all dancing'.

[Robert-Ryan]

Remember what Peel did to Thomsons. Not wanted...
Just noticed this...not practical is the correct term regardless of what Thomson want to call it.

Oldart...see post#1678, specifically the 2nd sentence of the 1st paragraph

[Bishop01]

Well let's open this up to the likes of people on here from leeds and newcastle airports having ATC shut downs then, as I've never heard of that.. 'maybe in the middle of the night but certainly not during normal opening hours' ..6am-11pm... "and not for upto 45 minutes at time" so would b nice to here about leeds and newcastle airport ATC shutdowns if anyone can come up with some facts...
These should have been sorted straight away, but as is the case here at DTV... "very slow progress"

And while on here
...I'd like ask people from Humberside Airport how they can manage one Thomson flight a week during the winter months.. so they can pass on how it should b done to the likes of peel and DTV...

[Robert-Ryan]

As I said it's much less frequent at those airports...the point is it is not something that is exclusive to DTVA. Again, I'm not saying it is right, like I agreed it's bad customer service.

Regarding Humberside, you've largely answered your own question by noting it's a winter flight...meaning they have year round services as opposed to solely summer charters. Either way there will be a good reason.

[Bishop01]

Winter flight or not....It obviously can b done with regards to staffing etc.. otherwise hummberside would go in hibernation in the winter like DTV does for 12 months of the year now!

It's that old chestnut though! "Hummberside airport wants it more than the likes of DTV"...

Very sad I'm afraid unless youre on the peel bandwagon.....

[highwideandugly]

I might be wrong..probably...but to my knowledge neither Leeds or Newcastle ATC have ever closed the respective airports? And don't forget The AFS coverage !!

Bishop..you are completely right but a few on here are completely blinkered.."Nero fiddled while Rome burned" ..Ahh flights to Rome..that would be nice..

Another quote.."

From Beafer......"the truth is out There". Yes I watch too much TV( no aeroplanes to watch)

[letitrun]

Sorry, but I don't think that Newcastle ATC has ever closed down its services. If it has it would be interested to know when and where the information came from or where it is listed.

[Robert-Ryan]

Ok, let's go with Newcastle and Leeds have never closed due to ATC (regardless of whether it's correct or not)...it doesn't matter because, as stated twice now...the point is other airports do it, which ones are irrelevant.

but a few on here are completely blinkered
haha...class!! :ok:

[SWBKCB]

Government declines to interfere with plans for 350 houses near Teesside Airport - Gazette Live (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/government-declines-interfere-plans-350-13185760)

The Government has refused to interfere with controversial plans to build 350 houses close to Durham Tees Valley Airport .

Plans to build 350 new homes close to Durham Tees Valley Airport (DTVA) have been returned to Darlington Council “for determination” by Sajid Javid, the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government.

[N707ZS]

Good as one of the comments say lets get on with it.

[VentureGo]

Is it not obvious? Housing will get the go ahead. .... as Americans would add ... "Period" (meaning in English) .. "Full Stop"

Tee-side to Newcastle Airport could be done in less than 30 min. if good quality rail link/ road links were invested in, rather than this tedious, lost discussion /argument dragging Peel "KICKING AND SCREAMING" AGAINST THEIR WILL TO INVEST in A LOST CAUSE" of THEIR OWN WISH & making - i.e... They don't want to play!!!!!! - Sort out the mis-placed CAPS and you'RE Qualified to RESPOND!!!

EDIT: Just calculated it is actually cheaper to travel (even with current poor links) to NCL and have a greater choice at lower cost than via MME... Should we not be pushing for High quality fast links to NCL airport and capitalise on the wider North East as a strong competitor to MAN. EDI, and GLA. airports

[No-More-Bullschit]

Over the last couple of days I didn't think it was possible for there to be any more bullschit on here, then VentureGo comes along and raises the bar considerably

[VentureGo]

Over the last couple of days I didn't think it was possible for there to be any more bullschit on here, then VentureGo comes along and raises the bar considerably

And your point is? - Based and backed up with some factual evidence ....


Edit: Just reviewed your recent posts ... Concluded You are either deluded or on the Peel "Payroll" ... Come on... Get Real!!!....

Edit... Edit ... You Failed the First test re. "Sort out the mis-placed caps and then respond".... but I guess ...... your level of comprehension...... !!!! ....

[N707ZS]

VentureGo somewhere else, ground hog if good quality rail link/ road links were invested in!


We have a good rail link to Manchester airport and they keep telling us its faster by train to London from Darlington.

[VentureGo]

VentureGo somewhere else, ground hog !


We have a good rail link to Manchester airport and they keep telling us its faster by train to London from Darlington.

Manchester is a terrible experience and.... LONDON - ...Seriously!!! .... Why So Anti - Newcastle?!!!!

[No-More-Bullschit]

Venture...there's only one of us deluded and it ain't me (nor am I on the Peel payroll)

and we're not going to start the whole facts thing again are we?! The only person who has done that on here lately is Mr Ryan by noting the recent developments regarding staffing, terminal refurbishments etc

[N707ZS]

Manchester is a terrible experience and.... LONDON - ...Seriously!!! .... Why So Anti - Newcastle?!!!!
Because you keep banging on about it!

[Beafer]

Peel have been buying more land around airport.
The plot which is opposite the Camper van showroom was supposed to be going to be a hotel and was owned by a shipping company.
Peel purchased the small plot just to the left of the airport access road next to A67 for a lot more than the councils were paid for the whole airport 800 acre site.
Peel also purchased the small Tower Works plot for the same price which they paid for the airport.
Anyone know how the Refuse firm got on with their licence application over at the old gym site near Hangar 3?

[Beafer]

Re the South Side planning which Stockton granted.
The map page shows some details when zoomed in around south side. Look at the fence line and how it changes on the SW corner. Not sure what it boxes in?
Use the + / - to zoom in and hold cursor down over map to move around area.
Land use has been changed, whats the betting it will end up being changed to more houses. Stockton will receive the council tax ;)
The Map takes a while to load onto the screen..

https://www.developmentmanagement.stockton.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=map&keyVal=NQUKQ4PKGFL00

[Bishop01]

Venture...there's only one of us deluded and it ain't me (nor am I on the Peel payroll)

and we're not going to start the whole facts thing again are we?! The only person who has done that on here lately is Mr Ryan by noting the recent developments regarding staffing, terminal refurbishments etc




Rite... Why is it on here as soon as questions are asked on some of RR Comments/Speculations it all kicks off...


first off all, RR "or who ever he wants to be on here"
'yes'.. he does talk some sence, but as I've found out, he talks a lot of speculation and cant back up his comments when questioned...... so if people want to believe all of this, then no doubt they believe that Peel will plough all the money back into the Airport from the sale of the land for the houses... they've already laid down the foundations with the well timed "were keeping this airport open and its costing us 200k a month to do so shananigings"..... so no doubt a good start to their bargaining tools when asked how much they plan to put back into the Airport.. Hope I'm wrong and hope I don't have to come back on here in ten years and say "well I did tell you that" I wouldn't trust anything they say as they've had plenty of time to turn this place round.. 'well over a decade' likewise regarding the local councilor who said he'd buy back the airport if elected as mayor... Tosh! never trust a politician.... I certainly didn't fall for that rubbish and cant believe now people are having a go at the bloke..


Believe it or not I want this place to succeed but people are just getting sick of all the usual rubbish" with nothing positive to come out of the place for years... all rite getting 24hr D/Os..and doing up the terminal but no good if the Airport is still having ATC shut downs on a regular basis, driving what traffic we have away... like I've said on here a number of times.. what ever peel are doing.. "its not working as pax numbers are still dropping, so people like RR can come on here and say i've heard the Pax figures are healthy and KLM and Eastern are happy.. that's his opinion of it and if people want to believe that then crack on!! :yuk:

[highwideandugly]

Mixed Emotions...is this the...
start of something great..or the beginning of the end? ..only time will tell and everyone has different ideas.

Probably shouted down ,but my opinion is ..a slow decline..as Suspected by a few,in the past.

No progressive,vibrant,outward looking airport..would sell valuable land,literally on its door step for anything..let alone housing!

Ok you guys if you are happy with a second or maybe third rate airport and are happy with these developments,then go ahead..shout down Bishop,Onion,Beafer,Venture,me and the rest..not very forward thinking me thinks?

[N707ZS]

Is it valuable land or a bit of farm land left over from the new road and a wet football field. The land on the other side of the old entrance road is probably more valuable and none of that is being sold off for houses. Come on Venture only likes buses and train to Newcastle!!

[highwideandugly]

Venture busses...does that bring back memories??

[Robert-Ryan]

Ok, time to take a step back I think and look at this from a different angle, and try and explain why I feel how I feel rather than trying to ram it down peoples throats like I have previously and certainly like the likes of Bishop, Beafer et al do.

My problem with the negative brigade, or at least some of them, is two fold, firstly there are two types of negative user on here, and indeed in the real world, there are those who are generally negative but keep an open mind, whom I have no problem with, then there are the arrogant types who have to have the last word with their “the airport is doomed because I say it is” attitude and are not prepared to entertain any other scenario. Secondly how many of these people who scream that Peel are the devil are actually qualified or in a position to make such a judgement? Granted there will be some, but how many are just going off the BS that gets printed in the media, or second hand rumour/Chinese whispers? I have worked at the airport for a number of years now, survived redundancies and have had the master plan explained to me in great depth by senior management [go back through my post history and you'll get an idea of when this was, I was once anti-Peel believe it or not before I got wise!) in an effort to make me feel better about losing friends and colleagues to cost cutting – it doesn’t make me feel better about that but it does make me feel fearless about the future of the place and it damn well makes me more qualified than 95% on here when it comes to speculating [knowing] the true intentions of the owners.

To answer some other bramas:
then no doubt they believe that Peel will plough all the money back into the Airport from the sale of the land for the houses...
You’ll have an answer to this as conspiracy theorists always have an answer to everything…but I suppose an iron clad section 106 legal agreement isn’t good enough for you? :rolleyes:

as they've had plenty of time to turn this place round.. 'well over a decade'
The above conspiracy theory prefix applies here too, but this is largely (though not entirely) down to the fact that the industry has changed dramatically over ten years, the real criticism is not so much that they haven’t done anything, it’s that they haven’t reacted and adapted to change sooner.

its not working as pax numbers are still dropping, so people like RR can come on here and say i've heard the Pax figures are healthy and KLM and Eastern are happy.. that's his opinion of it
Yes, it is just my opinion, and if I’m not mistaken I made it clear it was exactly that, I don’t recall stating it as fact, and if I did then I’ll let you have this one and I stand corrected.

But what really really bugs me, is when the negative brigade come out with gems such as these:
but as I've found out, he talks a lot of speculation and cant back up his comments when questioned
and
but a few on here are completely blinkered
Whilst in many cases the first quote above may often be true…THESE COMMENTS APPLY TO THE ANTI-PEEL MOB EVERY BIT AS MUCH AS THE PRO-PEEL BUNCH!!!! :ugh:
Given that 24H DOs, increased fire category and terminal refurbishments are things that have happened or are happening and can be seen with your own eyes, I don’t know what better qualifies as backing up my argument [on this occasion]!!

I’ll end on a footnote with a couple of things we can definitely agree on:

regarding the local councilor who said he'd buy back the airport if elected as mayor... Tosh! never trust a politician.... I certainly didn't fall for that rubbish
and
Believe it or not I want this place to succeed

I'll also acknowledge that those with a negative outlook have good reason for it.

hope I don't have to come back on here in ten years and say "well I did tell you that"
I hope [know] I will!!!

[SWBKCB]

RR is right, two sides to every story and he makes many good points, I'll just pick up on a couple.

but I suppose an iron clad section 106 legal agreement isn’t good enough for you?

No it isn't - one of the funniest things written on Prrune for many a year. Suggest you do a bit of research on how developers use S106.

Given that 24H DOs, increased fire category and terminal refurbishments are things that have happened or are happening and can be seen with your own eyes, I don’t know what better qualifies as backing up my argument [on this occasion]!!

You mention these repeatedly as evidence that Peel are moving forward - just as valid an interpretation is that these are steps to retain existing operators - lets face it, losing KLM would be hugely damaging (and no, I've no evidence for this but...)

[Robert-Ryan]

I think of the three only the terminal refurbishment could be an effort to retain existing operators

[mercurydancer]

Robert Ryan. I dont fit either of your categories.

I have an open mind but the experience at the airport is horrible. I would dearly like to be of the positive but frankly I cannot.

I use the airport often because I have limited choices. I endure MME because it is the easiest way to get to an airport which is organised, ie AMS.

I have no political agenda, but as a frequent user of MME, my views are not complimentary at all.

[mercurydancer]

Did you make a formal complaint?

No because there is little point. its not going to make my next flight out of DTV any easier and I will get sent from pillar to post as to who I should actually complain to. I know because I have complained before.

[Robert-Ryan]

Whilst I am sure the poor experiences may well outnumber the positive ones, there will still be plenty of satisfied customers

[highwideandugly]

Surely we want more positive experiences and for those to outweigh the poor experiences,or am I missing something in modern customer relations?
Last time I flew from DTV. Security was excellent,check in excellent, poor in that we had to que outside( not raining) for immigration.Airport general appearance poor but apart from paying £12 to fly. No other real issues.

[N707ZS]

No because there is little point. its not going to make my next flight out of DTV any easier and I will get sent from pillar to post as to who I should actually complain to. I know because I have complained before.
So what's the point of whingeing on here then.!!:ugh:

[Piltdown Man]

DTV has the opportunity to make itself the easiest to use airport in the region. You can park outside the front door, walk a few feet more and you are past the goons at security and in the waiting area. How simple. With such a small airport, what could possibly go wrong?

PM

[Robert-Ryan]

Surely we want more positive experiences and for those to outweigh the poor experiences
Goes without saying

[oldart]

DTV has the opportunity to make itself the easiest to use airport in the region. You can park outside the front door, walk a few feet more and you are past the goons at security and in the waiting area. How simple. With such a small airport, what could possibly go wrong?

PM
Maybe passengers like walking round larger airports so they can try and keep fit. As far as I am concerned, I want to check in and get on the flight as quickly as possible.

[SWBKCB]

The problem is small airports are small for a reason - few flights. If one of those flights is going were you want, that's great - if not...

[Heathrow Harry]

Rotterdam is a good example - God knows Schipol is as good an airport as you could dream of but IF you are going to/from Rotterdam its a breeze - effectively turn up and go

But it is a limited range of options

[highwideandugly]

Just looking at the great DTV Movement site over the last month..is it me..or are things picking up movement wise?? Know the weather has been good,but seems much busier..more revenue in the coffers?
Not sure about Monarch as I'm sure they have come up with a deal..but promising?

[N707ZS]

At least Monarch will be paying to land instead of being paid to land at other local airfields:E

[highwideandugly]

Anyone one know how many Falcons stopping over tonight? Unusual movements today ex.MME?
How much longer will these aircraft keep going for..must be time for an upgrade!!?? Lear Jets,gulfstreams or Citations anyone!!

[Robert-Ryan]

Multiple sources continuously suggest they won't be upgraded for the duration of the current contract, not sure when that is exactly

[highwideandugly]

Diversions anyone?? Interesting notam from Newcastle tonight..runway next?

[SWBKCB]

Mayor holds talks with Government minister over plan to buy back Teesside airport - Gazette Live (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/mayor-holds-talks-government-minister-13260410)

Positive development or an unnecessary distraction?

[N707ZS]

Worst scenario Peel sell terminal and runway back to major idiot and keep all of the development land. Just hope that doesn't happen! The fence is already up.
It would be a quick way for Peel's cut losses and make a few quid more.

[SWBKCB]

Worst scenario Peel sell terminal and runway back to major idiot and keep all of the development land. Just hope that doesn't happen! The fence is already up.
It would be a quick way for Peel's cut losses and make a few quid more.

Hmmm - hadn't have thought of that one, could well be a marriage of convenience for both sides, but I agree that it's not an approach for long term success

[No-More-Bullschit]

They read this forum, I often fear we might put ideas in their heads!

[N707ZS]

What happened to the last lot of Beefing??

[skyman771]

Mr Houchen presented Lord Callanan with an aerial photograph of the airport, which the minister has displayed in his office.

What's Lord Callanan really going to do with his picture of Teesside Airport ?;)

[EK77WNCL]

WOW. WOW. WOW.

WAIT

Aviation minister??!! You're telling me that I live 20 yards from my local aviation minister and I didn't have a clue?

Mind, that's not a bad picture I might pop across the road and see if he needs it taken off his hands

[N707ZS]

Presume he will already have a Newcastle one with a gold frame:E

[EK77WNCL]

Well I bloody hope so! We need somebody to stand up for regional aviation

I presume he was a regular on the NCL-BRU flights in his previous career as an MEP for the North East and leader of the Conservative party in Europe

[Beafer]

N707, I had enquired about the refuse centre application, but removed the post as nobody answered.
As for Peel they won't sell the land back to councils, they will build on it.
It may not be all houses with their current investment in shopping centres and transport logistic warehouses.
https://realestate.ipe.com/news/markets-and-sectors/peel-logistics-merges-with-evander-properties/10015081.fullarticle

Peel logistics is one of new Peel companies and their accounts show that 50% of the new company is owned by the Macquarie Group as shown in their latest company accounts on the last page, and also the board of directors listing.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09632149/filing-history

Who are the Marqurie Group.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macquarie_Group

DTV's 800 acres of land will be anything but aviation which is why the management would only give it a guarantee of another 5 years according to Robert Houghs question time with the press back in 2016.
Q&A with Durham Tees Valley Airport boss on holiday flights, housing and 'facing reality' - Gazette Live (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/business/business-news/qa-durham-tees-valley-airport-11522602)
So in Robert and Whitakers eyes that's 5 years and counting from 2016.

Looking back through Roberts comments, I can't see where Peel have spent £34m at the airport unless it was spent underground? :confused:

Regarding the latest DTV Airport ltd public accounts which all of the directors including councillors signed off on and filed in January 2017.
It appears the parent company Tokenhouse and Peel have taken £10m out of DTV Airport during the year up to March 2016. No wonder the airport is making a £3m financial loss!! :hmm:
All here in black and white for the doubters.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02020423/filing-history

[N707ZS]

N707, I had enquired about the refuse centre application, but removed the post as nobody answered. Might as well do the same for this one!

[SWBKCB]

It appears the parent company Tokenhouse and Peel have taken £10m out of DTV Airport during the year up to March 2016.

No they didn't

[highwideandugly]

Latest figures for May released.

Total pax down again by 7%

Flagship Amsterdam continuing in a downward trend -5% to only 8293

And the other route to Aberdeen( all domestics) down 4%

Grand total 11005 pax through the terminal...don't forget that's total so roughly only 5500 departing pax.
May 31 days = 178 departing passengers per day???? Housing anyone?

[jamesgrainge]

Is the Flybe to Jersey a new route? What aircraft operated it?

[oldart]

Is the Flybe to Jersey a new route? What aircraft operated it?
No, Flybee have operated it for a few years using a Dash 8. As far as I can remember there has been a summer route to Jersey for many years. British Midland operated Viscounts, DC 9, Emb 145 and 737's on it. (F 100 )?

[01475]

It appears the parent company Tokenhouse and Peel have taken £10m out of DTV Airport during the year up to March 2016. No wonder the airport is making a £3m financial loss!! :hmm:
All here in black and white for the doubters.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02020423/filing-history

I can't even understand what number you managed to misinterpret as showing that, but I'm afraid you definitely don't know how to read a set of accounts.

The accounts show a loss making company that's running out of cash and that's being propped up by its owners.

[No-More-Bullschit]

It's not uncommon for Beafer to get something very wrong

[skyman771]

It's not uncommon for Beafer to get something very wrong
Absolutely agree on this one. Not that the accounts don't reflect the company as a basket case they do !
Very briefly, then the company have not been able to do anything to stem the horrendous £2.5 M loss in 2015, 7% rise in turnover more than offset by 10% rise in costs, though net profit further hammered by the £0.5M impairment (write off) of fixed assets.
The resulting £3m loss is to a large extent financed by inter company support, and to a lesser extent other trade creditors.
Only other point worth making is ref. fixed assets, then NBV remains same after the impairment & depreciation charges due to the £1M spend on various airport assets.
So in summary then no sign that ongoing investment is not simply being p****d away with no obvious way of aborting what is a hemorrhage of cash.

So the perennial question, why is it still trading?, & the answer has to be, as it always has been, the "off balance sheet" value of the whole asset, coupled with political pressure which prevents a more direct approach in it's realization by simply "closing the doors!".
The company itself refers in it's strategic report as to how it intends to address the deficit, and it is to " promote utilization of the wider airport site", but then it is discussion around this point that has kept this thread active for years........:(

[No-More-Bullschit]

So I'm willing to bet no one will be questioning the future of Edinburgh Airport despite them doing what Peel are doing ! Edinburgh are actually closing down an active runway for this, which is a damn sight more anti-airport than Peel's plans regardless of whether or not they've got another one to use!!

Edinburgh airport announces business and homes development - The Scotsman (http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/edinburgh-airport-announces-business-and-homes-development-1-4499259)

[SWBKCB]

Hardly comparing like with like...

http://www.edinburghairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/12.36-million-passengers-make-2016-a-record-year-for-edinburgh-airport

And calling it an active runway is also stretching it a bit. Hope they are going to use the money for some more aircraft parking, though.

[No-More-Bullschit]

May not be like for like but the people who scream "airports and houses don't mix" don't care what size of an airport it is. Now you've got us, Edinburgh, Manchester, Doncaster all building houses, with Newcastle and Leeds having houses built too even if not by the airports themselves.

Therefore IMO the argument is no longer valid!

[skyman771]

Therefore IMO the argument is no longer valid!
Well that's your view. But in reality I have seen nothing that suggests that any of those other airfields that you mentioned have taken any actions to cut services, and facilities.
Point taken that all airports are looking at ways of improving their balance sheets from the generation of additional revenue.:ugh:

[EGPO]

I've read a few posted on here and it seems this operator running the airport has zero interest in the site as a going concern.
Sadly it seems to be following the likes of Galway and Sligo (granted not as large but both badly managed).
Who's bright idea was it to order TUI to leave ?.

I have not been able to find that.
I did note the operator was allegedly chasing big business routes.

Years later they have KLM , however I note like Eastern pax numbers are dropping .

I was in a discussion about one of their other Airports in Doncaster .
That one seems to be attracting growth despite one poster who claims connections - constantly stating that airport is also doomed.
But it has a second year if healthy growth - I believe 9-10% growth?.

Back at DTV something question is they have KLM , but from what I've read - like DSA a very dull Terminal.
Worse still unlike DSA it is very very tatty.
With reduced airport services ( for the airlines).
Plus a fee.

I can tell you I think similar fees helped kill off Galway , Sligo and Waterford .
The latter of course has had more relaunches than your East Coast rail franchise.

So the concern - KLM are due to withdraw the Fokker 100 and 70 series this October.
Right at the start of the winter season , I note over a 5% drop again this month from DTV !.
WHY? , if the airport are aiming at a business and non holiday type operation why have they not rebranded the terminal , giving KLM Pax a stunning premium lounge .
No Pax fees .
And Lots of information and posters pushing the potential for onward destinations?.
I do wonder how KIM will justify sending a large Embraer unless they have the 190 version.

And perhaps Somone can clarify do they still operate smaller , SAAB 340 and Fokker 50 on any routes?.
If not will KLM simply relocate to another 'unserved' UK airport?.

Ditto Eastern , this is even worse the Aberdeen route is looking pax like water from a tap.
Eastern having read other posts don't suffer fools gladly.
The Norwich flights seem on FR24 are these real routes or aircraft swaps?.

Where does DTV Go from here ? Does your regional government ( Teesside County is it ? ) - ( im Based in County Mayo).
So not sure which area is run by whom.
Don't your TD's have powers to take the airport into public ownership.
They have done it for how many failed UK rail operators!.

While you do have Newcastle Airport and Doncaster/ Leeds and Manchester the last three are two hours drive.

My work flew me to Newcastle - again the sheer volume of traffic passing that large retail park along the A1 was horrific worse almost than the M62 .
Ok granted Personally I'm used to Ireland's quieter roads over here.
But Imho I would say DTV ,
MUST be saved as it's location is well placed to serve areas like Yorkshire cost up to Teesside ( Im thinking Whitby area into Teesside - right over to the Eastern Dales ) granted it's catchment is possibly constrained over it's rivals.

But can anyone - leaving aside money and venom against the operator but simple facts.
And finally what ideas or potential routes and operators do you think may save this failing business?.

[N707ZS]

EGPO would recommend further reading of the thread.

[SWBKCB]

N-M-B - I've no problem with DTVA using some of the site for housing, I'm all for anything which makes the site more viable, but the concern at DTVA is the location. As well as being very close to the apron and taxiways, it effectively hems in the terminal - my recollection is the main access to the terminal will be through the new housing estate, access to any commercial development on the south side will run alongside and most of the terminal car parking will disappear.

EGPO - where to start?

DTVA cancelled the contract with TUI

KLM have already withdrawn the Fk.100 - the Fk.70's (80 seats) are being replaced by EMB-175's (88 seats) so little change. These are the smallest a/c in the fleet. They seem to have a profitable core of business travellers so don't see anything changing soon. The terminal is to be re-furbished, and I wouldn't be surprised if KLM did some prompting.

The owners plan to save the airport is a mix of developing the site for housing and commercial use, maintain/attract a limited number of airline routes and to develop non-airline aviation businesses.

[pug]

Welcome back onyxcrowle...

[oldart]

EGPO
Just for info. the eastern flights from Norwich are to pick up the passengers from cancelled J41 flights from MME to Aberdeen, sometimes in the reverse.

[EGPO]

Thank you for the information there Oldart...

[Harry Wayfarers]

Years later they have KLM

I worked for KLM, aka Air UK, some 32 years ago and even then their MME routes up/down the east coast and to/from AMS were well established, it has nothing to do with ":years later"!

[N707ZS]

Harry I think the old Norwich DTVA route is one that might work again with the gas rigs and wind farm work down there. Not sure what aircraft would suit the route.

[Teesside TinTin]

I may have been off here a while due to commitments in Asia, however as I have a few spare hours whilst travelling through Shanghai I thought I would make my comments on the future...


Although the terminal upgrade is going ahead I have noticed the installation of a games room, this in my opinion is not required for business travellers, after travelling continuously for work with KLM I have never seen anyone on the KLM flights wanting to play air hockey, alas this is a waste of money.


I have heard as well that KLM are once again questioning the feasibility of the route and may well look to end the contract earlier if passenger figures don't go up.


It also seems that FoDTVA are now being treat as servants to the airport with a social media policy, heavily influenced by the Peel gangsters. I am a paid up member of FoDTVA just to keep an eye on what is going on.


I still also don't understand why these members are asked to "help out" when a charter flight comes in, I've flew through many airports as have many in the UK now and I'm sure they don't need assistance to be guided through the garden shed...




Brgds
Tim

[oldart]

Although the terminal upgrade is going ahead I have noticed the installation of a games room, this in my opinion is not required for business travellers, after travelling continuously for work with KLM I have never seen anyone on the KLM flights wanting to play air hockey, alas this is a waste of money.
Surely the games room would only work if you had a load of bucket and spade passengers passing through. Alas this would seem to be a pipe dream, the likes of Thomson's are going to give MME a wide berth after the way they were treated.

[EGPO]

I shook my head in disbelief at the ' games room, they do know it's an Airport not some dingy low rent motorway service area?.
As for KLM leaving I had also heard this.
IMHO when the Fokkers are gone KLM may decide not to send it's larger aircraft , unless they still have any small prop aircraft in service?.
And godforbid they go i cant see Eastern bothering anymore they'd be just as well to relocate to Carlisle if it actually opens next year.

[pug]

When did you hear of KLM leaving Onyx? And by larger I assume you're referring to the EMB-170? Also, why would Eastern be better off moving to Carlisle?

[highwideandugly]

Eastern to Carlisle or maybe KLM. Come on guys...Carlisle will never survive as an airport,never has,never will...

KLM to leave DTV? It's a possibility but doubtful..worryingly the figures month on month are not good...it will almost certainly need an upturn in passengers to keep KLM happy..no sign over last 6 months. KLM have a lot on their plate with Air France as a partner!!!!

Eastern..who knows,,other threads put them down as a basket case!

Finally..don't think a games room will encourage extra passengers.....oh please. Let's fly from DTV. They have a Pokemon machine...or then again....

Try new accurate road sign posts,cancel departure tax and actually have a product that works?

[10 DME ARC]

The games room is probably to keep the 'un-paid staff'...sorry 'friends of MME' happy between flights.......!!

[SWBKCB]

IMHO when the Fokkers are gone KLM may decide not to send it's larger aircraft , unless they still have any small prop aircraft in service?.

EGPO - just to save us repeating ourselves, have a look at my response to you at post #1883

Perhaps the games room is part of the community facilities promised for the new housing?

[Richard Taylor]

Well they do have a DC3.......... :O

[N707ZS]

Heard the games room has a dedicated link to pprune!!

[Robert-Ryan]

Is it definitely a games room? If this has been taken from FODTVAs Facebook feed then it appears they were only speculating? Seems to be a lot of FODTVA bashing on here again, which I've never understood, if they were being treated as servants I would imagine their members would just unsubscribe en mass, you can't really hold a gun to the heads of an organisation like that, if they're investing their time and effort they must be getting something out of it? And the notion that they're unpaid staff is just ridiculous, if that was the case half the jobs currently listed on the airport website would just be given to FODTVA!!

[Teesside TinTin]

Well here we are again, all about FoDTVA, I know fine well that a few of their members are on here and often say they aren't members, clearly shows embarrassment to the scheme. I was thinking when passing through the terminal yesterday that all these unpaid hours of work that the "friends" are doing could be better directed towards a charity, not a working business that is there to make a profit and just exploiting these deluded people.


I notice Eastern have got AIS in to use a J32 on the ABZ flights, a blast from the past there and definitely not a good swap in my opinion although it will make the load factors look more pleasing.


Anyways, I wonder who's playing butler to the airport paid staff, must be a friend permanently in the terminal now I guess, shame they don't help me off the KLM flight as I've almost forgot how to use an airport.

[Robert-Ryan]

My point proven. I understand the group is run by amongst others a number of successful business directors and managers, perhaps that strengthens your argument rather than weakens it but at the very least it rules out deluded. If liking their Facebook page counts as membership then yeah I guess I am, but I haven't shelled out a membership fee, the airport pay me to do 40 odd hours a week, I could not justify paying money back in to do more!!

[mmeman]

So with the J32 on Aberdeen, it goes back up to 4 daily apart from a Friday.

Also KLM are reinstating the Sunday tea time flight from the end of October, but the mid morning flight stops, so still only 2 flights on Sunday's

[Teesside TinTin]

Mr Ryan, you don't seem to get the point do you, I assume that you must go under a fake name on here as none of the staff at the airport seem to know your name, I was asking as I feel as though it would be nice to put a face to the name, not to worry anyways, I flew out again yesterday morning on the 1530, good load as per but people still seem to be very unpleasant about the airport, one gentleman even stated that he is moving his future flight to NCL as he isn't pleased with the service.

The J32's are just filling in I believe as Eastern have a lot on their plate in future, route cutting will come next I believe or maybe W patterns so I wouldn't be surprised to see developments with the MME route... however watch this space. I'm looking forward to using the E175's once we eventually get them!

[N707ZS]

one gentleman even stated that he is moving his future flight to NCL as he isn't pleased with the service. Did he say what his complaint is?

[Robert-Ryan]

TinTin, youre damn right i use a fake name, having seen more than one colleague get hauled over the coals over the years for their comments on this and other forums/sites

[highwideandugly]

You need to be brave and use your real name ..like Teesside TinTin.His wife Terry TinTin doesn't hide her name,or the kids...Thomas TinTin and Tammy TinTin..not forgetting the dog Rusty TinTin!

[01475]

Mr Ryan, you don't seem to get the point do you, I assume that you must go under a fake name on here as none of the staff at the airport seem to know your name, I was asking as I feel as though it would be nice to put a face to the name

Well if stopping pax from the 1530 from stalking you at work isn't a good reason for using a fake name, I don't know what would be!

Obviously I use my real name though.

[Robert-Ryan]

Read into this what you will, but lots of chatter around the airport suggesting tomorrow is going to be a very good day...

[HH6702]

Airport to close ???

[mmeman]

Looks like Loganair 3 daily to Aberdeen and 1 daily to Norwich.

Loganair striking back at the Eastern/Flybe partnership?

[Robert-Ryan]

Hmm, good news I guess even if it does raise more questions than it answers

[highwideandugly]

Oh well it's news..so that's goodbye to the eastern base? Or will ,as probable just be a rebranding of The Jetstream route? Norwich...will be an interesting route..unless of course it's just confirmation of the Sunday only schedule?
We will see..

[HH6702]

Is there the demand for both on ABZ route
This could end badly if T3 pull out and loganair can't make money on it

[highwideandugly]

All speculation but gut feeling is they will take over the route and one of the rotations will include Norwich?
Hope the figures improve though as they are nothing short of disastrous over the last few months.
At least prices should be cheaper than Eastern!!

[virginblue]

Probably a power game to create some leverage. If you play in our forecourt, we will play in your's - and let's see who has the deeper pockets.

[mmeteesside]

Looks like 1 Saab 340 based from 16th October operating 3x/4x Aberdeen and 1x Norwich

[SWBKCB]

Durham Tees Valley Airport: Introduction of new airline will provide a 'shot in the arm' - Gazette Live (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/business/business-news/durham-tees-valley-airport-loganair-13441482)

Bit of a double-edged sword, LOG and Eastern/Flybe clearly intent on going head to head - can't see them both succeeding and MME might end up being collateral damage.

Being more positive, interesting comment from the Loganair managing director in the link above:

“We’re looking forward to beginning a long and successful working relationship with Durham Tees Valley Airport and intend to announce further service developments at DTVA in the coming months.”

[WilliumMate]

Going back to the early 70s Air Anglia had a NWI-MME-ABZ service using F27s I believe. Plus ca change and all that.

[HH6702]

4 flights per week not 3 DAILY !!

[No-More-Bullschit]

Highwide...cheer up! It's good news, end of.

[rog747]

any holiday charters still go from MME? saw Naples on the arrivals board for Sunday

[Robert-Ryan]

Only ad-hoc by Newmarket and Omega.

[rog747]

ah OK ta

when i worked for BMA at LHR our DC9's used to go MME-Rimini Lourdes Pisa (sometimes) and Palma night flights over the summer weekend

take off was after the BD340 arrived back at MME from LHR and back in about 0600 or so in time for the first morning flight down to LHR

I was D/O at LHR 1977-1985

[Robert-Ryan]

There seems to be some confusion with the frequency of the new Aberdeen flight, Look North reporting 3x weekly and HH6702 is reporting 4x weekly in his post above, but the Loganair booking engine is definitely giving me the option of three flights per day Monday through Thursday and two on a Friday

[virginblue]

Anything else would not make sense, particularly not justify basing an aircraft at MME.

[SWBKCB]

There seems to be some confusion with the frequency of the new Aberdeen flight, Look North reporting 3x weekly and HH6702 is reporting 4x weekly in his post above, but the Loganair booking engine is definitely giving me the option of three flights per day Monday through Thursday and two on a Friday

http://www.durhamteesvalleyairport.com/get-in-touch/media-centre/press-releases/scotlands-airline-loganair-launches-flights-from-durham-tees-valley-airport

The airports press release gives days and times. Loganair seem to have got it right...

[highwideandugly]

No more bulls..t, I'm sorry I'm not sure what the excitement is all about?

Eastern will be gone in a blink and the airport back to square one.

They have no crews or aircraft anyway so nite nite..l

The Aberdeen figures are terrible..even Aberdeen figures are dodgy..I really can't see why you guys are excited about this amazing news.

As for the Norwich....give you 100 passengers per week?
Any comments from PEEL, how does this effect their master plan?

[SWBKCB]

Any comments from PEEL, how does this effect their master plan?

Quotes below are from the airports press release.

The announcement was welcomed by Durham Tees Valley Chief Executive Steve Gill as a ‘real shot in the arm for the airport—and very good news for the region’s business community.’

Explained Mr Gill: “We are delighted that Loganair has shown such confidence in Durham Tees Valley, especially at such an important point in the airline’s development as it prepares to operate flights in its own right from next month after 24 years of operating under franchise agreements with other carriers.”

“We certainly hope that this initial announcement of the new services to Norwich and Aberdeen marks that start of a successful—and growing—partnership with Loganair, who have chosen Durham Tees Valley for the launch of their operations in the North East.”

Added Chris Harcombe, Head of Aviation Development at Peel Airports “Attracting a well-established airline such as Loganair is exactly in line with the strategy we set out in the business plan for Durham Tees Valley to concentrate on supporting and developing services focussed on the business community.”

“The links between our region and the Aberdeen area are, of course, well established and there is a great deal of business synergy with Norwich. Having direct air links to both is of real benefit for our local firms providing goods, services and expertise in these fields.”

Yes, just a tiny step, and yes it seems that DTVA might be just part of the bigger Loganair vs. Flybe flight, but


It's a new operator
It's a new destination
It's Peel delivering on the 'business orientated' element of the Masterplan
There's the possibility of more routes

One other point - LOG to codeshare with BA? so maybe BA flight numbers on the DTVA departure board? :eek: Just look at the fusss made at far bigger airports about a few Cityflyer weekend charters :ok:

[AirportPlanner1]

Even if Eastern did leave I think longer term Loganair would be a more sustainable option. You get a daily service to Norwich for starters.

I wouldn't get too excited about other routes though, there isn't much they could/would do. Dublin and Belfast are in their network, but their fares would be too high...the punters would simply drive elsewhere and frequency is probably better at Newcastle etc anyway.

[SWBKCB]

I wouldn't get too excited about other routes

With two (now three!), shouldn't MME be getting excited about the prospect of any new routes? Gaining them is better than losing them.

And to be fair to Peel (it does happen!), they did say they would be targeting business routes rather than sun routes (yes, probably the art of the possible,,,)

[virginblue]

No more bulls..t, I'm sorry I'm not sure what the excitement is all about?

Eastern will be gone in a blink and the airport back to square one.

They have no crews or aircraft anyway so nite nite..l

The Aberdeen figures are terrible..even Aberdeen figures are dodgy..I really can't see why you guys are excited about this amazing news.

As for the Norwich....give you 100 passengers per week?
Any comments from PEEL, how does this effect their master plan?

Do you seriously believe it is a decision by Loganair because they think that market is great? From their perspective, they are trying to put a nail into Eastern's coffin to drive them off the intra-Scottish routes. I am pretty sure we will see sooner than later Eastern retreating from those new Scottish routes and Loganair from MME as a result of some clandestine behind-closed-doors negotiations.

[The Flying Stool]

The airport Manager Steve Gill has been quoted in the local media saying that these new routes are "a shot in the arm" for the airport. I fear it will be more like "a shot in the back of the head" for the airport. The passenger figures on some of the Aberdeen services are in single figures. Several daily frequencies are cancelled or combined with other bases flights as the passenger figures are so low. There is really no need to have two operators on such a marginal route. This will purely push Eastern off the Aberdeen route. The airport management will have negotiated this route with Loganair. The phrase 'sh 1tting on your own door step' springs to mind.


As for MME-NWI......seriously?

[Beafer]

Quotes from Mr Gill about the future.

Will Loganair stop the decline of Durham Tees Valley Airport? This and 3 other key questions answered - Gazette Live (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/loganair-stop-decline-durham-tees-13443867)

[AirportPlanner1]

As for MME-NWI......seriously?

I wouldn't be so dismissive. Logan have a decent network heading north from Norwich already, they know the market. There is no current service from Norwich to the north-east, and travel by road or rail is a pain. The service gives BMI/Logan a third daily flight between Norwich and Aberdeen, and will probably prop up the afternoon service between Aberdeen and MME.

[Robert-Ryan]

You have to wonder just how much longer can Eastern survive with those clapped out J41s anyway, perhaps all Loganair are doing is speeding up the inevitable

[mmeman]

So Eastern look like they have taken immediate action - no J32 from AIS Airlines operting MME-ABZ now and back up to 4 daily from September on Monday and Thursday's.

Also according to Norwich airport website BMI regional are codesharing so BMI return to MME!

[virginblue]

Well, the Loganair Saab 340s are not exactly factory-fresh either...

[mmeteesside]

There is a sizeable market between DTV and Aberdeen that is currently being stifled by Eastern's high fares, and probably recent reliability issues don't help either. I know (my dad is one) a lot of oil/gas industry personnel currently travel by road/rail as it is more economical to do so. Obviously for Norwich there is no other option at present, but I'd expect it to do fairly well out of the (somewhat smaller) amount of offshore workers travelling to Norwich.

[HH6702]

I think this gives T3 a good excuse to exit DTV in the near future and will loganair make enough to keep going long term.
I fear in 12-18mths time DTV will have KLM only

[mmeteesside]

I notice in Eastern's booking system everything has reverted to a J41 on MME-ABZ, presumably taking the leased J32 elsewhere now so they can fight with their own resources

[Robert-Ryan]

Well, the Loganair Saab 340s are not exactly factory-fresh either...
No, but considerably more reliable

I think this gives T3 a good excuse to exit DTV in the near future
Looks like they're not going down without a fight

I fear in 12-18mths time DTV will have KLM only
That's the risk, but I'm starting to believe it's one that's well worth taking. Besides this is aviation, everything is a risk!

[EK77WNCL]

I could see Belfast City coming out of this later on down the line, I wonder if they might also consider MME-IOM to indirectly compete with Eastern from Newcastle.

A part of me would also love to see a Loganair/Bmir co-operation to Bristol, say x2 daily ERJ135/145. I bet there would be a good few that would snap up a day return from MME as opposed to an enforced overnight trip by EZY from NCL.

Part of me also wishes this one had gone to Newcastle, as Norwich was the second most sought after domestic route from NCL, after Manchester.

I wonder if MME-MAN could ever work? If they could codeshare with Etihad, Cathay, Hainan, Singapore, United, even Thomas Cook and or Virgin... On a 30-odd seat Saab 340 I really don't think that would be too out of the question. Except I bet a lot of current MME pax have KLM loyalty, so convincing them to take Loganair via Manchester might be a struggle.

Another long shot would be if Eastern/Flybe decided to pair up and operate MME-SEN if they felt that Loganair might be tempted into opening up a MME-London route.

I do worry that this will all fall apart, but I could also see things hotting up on Teesside and I think first mover advantage will very much come into it.

Fingers crossed things start looking up, I wish MME all the best

[oapilot]

I notice in Eastern's booking system everything has reverted to a J41 on MME-ABZ, presumably taking the leased J32 elsewhere now so they can fight with their own resources

I wonder how they'll crew it?

Just looked at travel in November Aberdeen to Durham and back. Only one option with Eastern on the Weds, all their other flights that day have "sold out" already, and they're £80 more expensive with 5kg less bags.

[southside bobby]

EK77WNCL....It could be termed perhaps an oxymoron...(ie contradictory to the point of foolishness) to view the words "hotting up" & "Teeside" in the same line!!...Apologies couldn`t resist..:))

[SWBKCB]

and spelling "Teesside" as "Teeside" could be termed a mistake - apologies, couldn't resist! :ok:

[southside bobby]

Hehe got me!!!..No excuses but as I have stated on a different thread I am an "Essex geezer"....so apologies for mangling your area names somewhat....:)))

[toon22]

2 x £13 APD 1 x £6 + 1 x £10 'facility fees' = £42 just for taxes on a round trip on the new service. The cheapest return fare by train (albeit with a railcard) is £37. Where's the margin for the airline in that lot?

[tigertanaka]

2 x £13 APD 1 x £6 + 1 x £10 'facility fees' = £42 just for taxes on a round trip on the new service. The cheapest return fare by train (albeit with a railcard) is £37. Where's the margin for the airline in that lot?

The train takes around 4 hours too, compared to about 45 minutes for a flight. As it is a business flight, I guess it depends on how much businesses value their employees time.

[Robert-Ryan]

You would assume the airline will have done the maths and deemed the route to have suitable potential, then again I trusted Eastern to have done that with Bristol or BMIBaby to Knock...

[EK77WNCL]

Did Eastern operate MME-BRS?

[AirportPlanner1]

2 x £13 APD 1 x £6 + 1 x £10 'facility fees' = £42 just for taxes on a round trip on the new service. The cheapest return fare by train (albeit with a railcard) is £37. Where's the margin for the airline in that lot?

And the train takes how long?

[onion]

Did Eastern operate MME-BRS?

No but there was a mme-Bristol service for a while 10 years back. Think it had something to do with a mobile phone company if memory service me right.
Eastern did a Brussels but never got the timings right to compete with NCL or LBA. Ie. Late morning arrival into Brussels! Not conducive to the business traveller.

[oldart]

And the train takes how long?

It can take just over 4 hours, however there is a long wait at Peterborough whilst changing trains. If you are wanting to use the heliport, add another half hour, traffic in Norwich is really bad.

[toon22]

My point was that at fares that would attract leisure passengers - £99'rtn. there's only £28 per sector in it for the airline even if there were nil charges from the airports. I really hope it works but the numbers look hard to me.

[brian_dromey]

[QUOTE=onion;9856637]No but there was a mme-Bristol service for a while 10 years back. Think it had something to do with a mobile phone company if memory service me right./QUOTE]

Most likely orange. They had call centre operations in both the North East and Bristol.

[AirportPlanner1]

It can take just over 4 hours, however there is a long wait at Peterborough whilst changing trains. If you are wanting to use the heliport, add another half hour, traffic in Norwich is really bad.

I know what's involved, it was the original poster who seemed to be missing the point. For the vast majority of people flying is much quicker, and actually if you're booking quite late or want flexibility the rail service isn't particularly cheap.

I would also point out to toon22 that if any leisure passengers use the service contributing £28 per sector, that's a £28 bonus that wouldn't otherwise be earned. Possibly toon22 also doesn't realise it's likely that most pax on the Norwich sector will have come from Aberdeen, again the few pax that join at MME will be a bonus.

[inOban]

Flexible, last-minute plane tickets tend to be expensive also!

And don't forget check-in times.

And the train is every hour. You take your pick.

[Robert-Ryan]

Eastern did operate MME-BRS, and yes it was to try and take advantage of Orange employees using Easyjets NCL-BRS route

[highwideandugly]

Still can't get my head around the excitement generated by this announcement?

The average monthly departing passenger total is around the 750 mark.

Rough maths say 20 working days per month..
Forget about the weekend schedules.

7 flights per day to Aberdeen gives a grand total of 5.3 joining passengers per flight...
Add in 8 possible weekend departures 2 each brings that total down to 5.06 passengers per flight.

Ok that's basic and there will be better(and worse) months,but my question is..which airline will pack in first and what happens if it's Eastern and Loganair are left.You would figure as with most airport start up airlines they are being charged peanuts,if anything for at least the first year.Eastern go and airport revenue becomes nil from what's left?
Where does that leave the airports revenue stream?
Interesting times..

[AirportPlanner1]

Flexible, last-minute plane tickets tend to be expensive also!

And don't forget check-in times.

And the train is every hour. You take your pick.

You're right but the fact remains the aircraft does ABZ-MME-NWI so any pax joining at MME are a bonus, and a few will because it offers a quick and convenient alternative to the train. I had indeed considered check-in and onward travel.

I'd also reiterate this isn't something to get too excited about, and it is not going to lead to a plethora of new routes. Talk of Belfast or Bristol or anywhere else is pointless, it's not going to happen.

[toon22]

Why not Bristol? EZY are generating 13 - 14k passengers month from NCL on a schedule that suits the airline not its passengers. 1 flight at 21.30 anyone?
My last word on NWI. Transit stops are a killer for profitability. By the time you take cycle costs on engines and landing gear, plus ATC and handling charges, the notion that any joining passengers at DTV on an ABZ - NWI service are a 'bonus' is just wrong. No, you need c.20 pax ABZ - DTV, 6 ABZ - NWI and the ABZ DTV passengers replaced by 15 - 20 DTV NWI pax, and then it starts to make sense.

[skyman771]

I've read all the posts & information as regards the Loganair venture & it seems to me to verge on insanity when looked upon as a stand up commercial operation in it's own right. There is nothing that I can see that makes this operation sustainable when working alongside Eastern, and I could see it struggling even if Eastern were to be forced out.
Back to basic's & you a have a small struggling airport with two routes the "thick" KLM AMS c.85% of traffic & "thin" Eastern ABZ c.11%.
The trend on the ABZ route has been downwards 53% drop in 2016 & clearly still struggling, given the plan (now redundant) to replace J41's with lower capacity J31's !
So along comes another operator prepared to give DTV a go ! & you say to yourself well done to them:D until you read the detail of their proposal :suspect:& the real & quite pathetic reason becomes apparent:{ ie to undermine Eastern’s operation.
Back to the proposal itself & the only positive, which provides any merit for this operation at all is that from Friday through to Sunday, Loganair are to fly one daily return ABZ – NWI via DTV , Dep ABZ 13.00 Arr NWI 15.20, Dep NWI 16.00 arr. ABZ 18.50. The relevance to DTV is that conveniently it is to call in en-route at DTV allowing pick up & drop off of pax both ways. This may in itself increase the DTV stats, dependent on through traffic, though I suspect little else.
Other than the above Eastern currently operate up to 3 daily returns ABZ – NWI direct, so what is going on ? has Eastern missed a trick, or possibly more likely, given their knowledge of the route and that of DTV where they have considerable presence, concluded it was not feasible for commercial or other reasons ?
Finally it would not be Pprune if the majority of posters to this thread had not gone off at a tangent & discussed alternates other than DTV – NWI , however as can be seen further destinations / expanding the network of operations from DTV are not necessarily on Loganair’s agenda at all, & if route growth was a consideration, then perhaps as mooted DTV would be well down the pecking order & indeed perhaps irrational when there are larger hubs less than 40 miles away pushing for similar growth.

[skyman771]

Jonathan Hinkles, Loganair’s Managing Director said: “We’re looking forward to beginning a long and successful working relationship with Durham Tees Valley Airport and intend to announce further service developments at DTVA in the coming months.”



Don`t hold yer breath folks:rolleyes:

Agreed & what has been said must be extremely subjective, given that at this time he has not actually dealt with the opposition.

Note that "further service developments" is not necessarily the same as "further new service destinations".....

Interesting times ahead.....

[onion]

Eastern did operate MME-BRS, and yes it was to try and take advantage of Orange employees using Easyjets NCL-BRS route

There was a FZO service as well.

[EGPO]

Agreed & what has been said must be extremely subjective, given that at this time he has not actually dealt with the opposition.

Note that "further service developments" is not necessarily the same as "further new service destinations".....

Interesting times ahead.....


I thought I had read a while back Loganair ( probably when they split up with Flybe ).
Said they wanted to aggressively push South into Northern English and regional airports.

I read into this they sadly ( sorry DTV guys , because any news is meant to be good news ) .

But to replicate a service that's failing.
And offer a new service apparently needed for business , but one ( isn't it just Sundays to NWI? ).

This reads as political plus as the other poster sadly was right a simple attack on the opposite airline .

Plus the idea of lots of Tartan Tailed aircraft flying into English airports with large English Airlines smacks of a bit of nationalism there !.

[SWBKCB]

but one ( isn't it just Sundays to NWI? ).

No - every day except Saturday.

[Robert-Ryan]

Highwide, Skyman and co raise valid points, though Skyman overstates. I'm on the fence, my excitement comes from the first new routes in a few years and my slight nervousness is based on the same reasons others mention...i.e. ultimately there can only be one winner maybe even no winners and one big loser. But we're in a beggars can't be choosers situation and any new business is to be welcomed.

[SWBKCB]

Steve Gill, chief executive, tells The Northern Echo officials are committed to the site (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/15461288.Durham_Tees_Valley_Airport_bosses____good_for_their _word______and_in_talks_over_new_services/)

[SWBKCB]

Good news...

Durham Tees Valley Airport revealed as new Boro shirt sponsor - Gazette Live (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/durham-tees-valley-airport-revealed-13467601)

Bad news...

Bagpiper booked to play at arrival of Scottish airline denied access to airport (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/15458716.Bagpiper_booked_to_play_at_arrival_of_Scottish_airl ine_denied_access_to_airport/)

[N707ZS]

Both good new, best place for bagpipes!!

[SWBKCB]

Harsh! :ok: I was thinking more about how it reflects on organisation.

[Rich3]

Good news...

Durham Tees Valley Airport revealed as new Boro shirt sponsor - Gazette Live (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/durham-tees-valley-airport-revealed-13467601)

Echo)[/url]

Thought this was a joke, no it is not April Fools Day. I bet those Boro fans shall be queuing to buy those tickets for Norwich and Aberdeen!!

[No-More-Bullschit]

Are you seriously suggesting the airport should miss an opportunity to advertise to a potential crowd of up to 34000 people?!

[ara01jbb]

Thought this was a joke, no it is not April Fools Day. I bet those Boro fans shall be queuing to buy those tickets for Norwich and Aberdeen!!

Are you seriously suggesting the airport should miss an opportunity to advertise to a potential crowd of up to 34000 people?!

Shame that the much discussed MME-NWI route will operate every day except Saturday :E

[highwideandugly]

Nice to see lots of new DTV posters on here...more interest..maybe things picking up??
Some busy days on the movements section recently..and that's against a backdrop of ATC/airport closures/AFS restrictions..!! Just think what could be achieved with a full service???

[No-More-Bullschit]

Shame that the much discussed MME-NWI route will operate every day except Saturday
Not sure what your point is?

[SWBKCB]

Don't want to miss the match! (for the youngsters, weekend football games used to be played exclusively at 3 o'clock on a Saturday afternoon...)

Maybe the Mayor's paying?

Mayor says good progress is being made to 'take back control' of Teesside Airport - Gazette Live (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/mayor-says-good-progress-being-13471903)

[No-More-Bullschit]

Where's the rule that states the advert has to go out on the same day as the service?! :-S

[Robert-Ryan]

Nice to see lots of new DTV posters on here...more interest..maybe things picking up??
Some busy days on the movements section recently..and that's against a backdrop of ATC/airport closures/AFS restrictions..!! Just think what could be achieved with a full service???
Not a great deal I wouldn't have thought.

[N707ZS]

Typical Conservative mayor taking the credit for work done by Peel Staff!!

[highwideandugly]

Robert..but does that restrict the movements and planning of customers? Plus the message it sends out that..the airport is not quite functional 100% ? Just a thought..

[Robert-Ryan]

I think any operator worth their salt would approach the airport regardless and ask the question "can you increase the fire category for us" and the response would be "yes given the amount of business you'll be bringing in" or "no the income doesn't outweigh the additional cost", the atc closures are only short term whilst they train someone up

[oldart]

Nice to see lots of new DTV posters on here...more interest..maybe things picking up??
Some busy days on the movements section recently..and that's against a backdrop of ATC/airport closures/AFS restrictions..!! Just think what could be achieved with a full service???

Biz jets for grouse shooting I suspect.

[highwideandugly]

Anyone know why no departures from DTV until after 9 today?? Unusual?

[tigertanaka]

Anyone know why no departures from DTV until after 9 today?? Unusual?

Major fog problems at AMS. Lots of delays & cancellations.

[highwideandugly]

Amazing movements at the airport..pity it can't be the grouse shouting time all the time!!! Sorry Grouse!!!

[highwideandugly]

Great update on DTV movements regarding passenger figures.As reported and suspected not good.On course for the lowest figures since 1970?
More worryingly is the Amsterdam Blue Ribband airport route which continues a downward trend.Aberdeen a basket case and that's before 3 extra rotations per day!

[No-More-Bullschit]

Yes not good. But in the same way you were clearly itching for this:
Anyone know why no departures from DTV until after 9 today?? Unusual? to be the airports fault, there is also an undercurrent of blame towards the airport in your passenger figures posts.

Things will improve, Loganair will at least balance out the figures and like the movements website says, there is still more people using KLM than a 18 months - 2 years ago

[highwideandugly]

NBM. Sorry is this what they call a a bit of a complex?? These are facts..being reported..what is there to hide??

There have been massive strides taken recently..but sometime all is not what it seems??
Fact. Figures are appalling....fact. The airport(maybe not Peel) is doing all it can to improve!
Staff are busting a gut and all credit and respect to them.

Any and I mean ANY airport that has no departures before 9 in morning..is it not a little unusual? Hence the innocent question,ably answered by tiger...
Chill out...

[airpolice]

I'm late to the party and I hold my hands up to not having read the previous 100 pages.


That said, DTV needs to make a business case without relying on the Cobham work, which, in a world run by people who can see the bigger picture, would be based at RAF Leeming.

[N707ZS]

Surely the police should read all of the evidence before convicting the criminal!!


On the other hand what is at Leeming could be based at DTVA!

[Beatts]

https://www.gofundme.com/local-airport-documentary

[No-More-Bullschit]

Hmm, Highwide I still think you're lightning fast at jumping on anything negative, but on this occasion...fair enough

[highwideandugly]

Think that documentary is an attempt by Beafer to raise some beer money!!
Thanks NMB accepted!!

[N707ZS]

Who gave him the £10? And I wonder if he has permission to film.

[highwideandugly]

It's a joke surely? Any publicity is good publicity,however this looks a bit dodgy??

[SWBKCB]

I'll make the film as soon as you give me the money to buy the equipment? Sounds like a dedicated film maker - God loves an optimist.... :ok:

[Beafer]

The poster who added the video may start with a "B" but not mine.

Sounds more like the type of thing one of Peels Friends of the airport might do when not doing the parent companies bidding for free.

The video maker has until 2021 as the Peel management have stated, then the options are open.
Wonder where the £200k a month is going? Peel bills?
https://sastimes.com/english/business/134333/will-loganair-stop-the-decline-of-durham-tees-valley-airport/

[SWBKCB]

Why not just link to the Gazette's original story - nothing new here...

Will Loganair stop the decline of Durham Tees Valley Airport? This and 3 other key questions answered - Gazette Live (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/loganair-stop-decline-durham-tees-13443867)

[Teesside TinTin]

I'm sure there'll be a great return on that investment!

[Beafer]

The Prime Minister refuses to comment on plans for the airport.

http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/theresa-refuses-commit-mayors-teesside-13520530

[Beafer]

It appears Mrs May wouldn't say that the government will help to buy back DVT Airport while flying in yesterday. No surprise there. They new Mayor used the DTV buy back spin to get votes, but he hasn't got the money, and Peel know he cant force them to sell the airport. They councils put paid to that signing it over.

Peel are a land company who are sitting on 800 acres of prime land so they won't sell it. They must be laughing all the way to the bank after adding the original contract clause which stated that the councils had to give up most of their DTV shares after 10 years IF the councils didn't put more money into the airport!
Something very strange went on if the council staff didn't see that part of the contract, OR did they? Hmmmmm, wonder if we'll ever find out who was in charge of the sale documents?

With the Peel company spokesman saying in the press recently that they won't guarantee DTVA's future after 5 years, I predict it will go something like this.

2018 First houses will be built and sold. Night flights will stop.
Peel will keep harping on about DTV losses, to help sway the public.

2021 or earlier, there will be another Share Swap with either another VAS type company, or one of the many Peel side companies to complicate any ownership issues with the council minorities, and probably more building plans applied for.

Prior to 2021 Peel will announce they can not support any more losses which they say are running at £200k a MONTH, which will be final nail in the coffin and the rest of the 800 site will be built upon.
Probably be a mix of houses and Industrial units.

Some might not like this, but its a safe bet that Peel will have already the housing estate plans already drawn up. Don't need to be Einstein to work that one out.
Robert the Peel man will call up from Manchester to say its been an expensive venture for them but they did their best.
What he won't say is yes we got a large public airport and 800 acres all for the small sum of £500,000.
Funny old world of funny handshakes and secret meetings to get a deal like that me thinks. :hmm:

Have Peel given up paying the pensions of the DTV Airport staff? I heard they wanted the local councils to pick up the pension bills to save Peel paying them.
I didn't hear what the final decision was on that debacle.
Shocking to think the Public have to pay for DTV staff pensions when a private company (Peel) own the airport.