DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 6

[Robert-Ryan]

NEWS RELEASE

DURHAM TEES VALLEY WELCOMES HEATHROW ‘LINK’ PROPOSAL

Durham Tees Valley Airport has welcomed the Government recommendation that London Heathrow should be the preferred location for additional south east capacity and the proposal of a new domestic service to Durham Tees Valley once the expansion is complete.
Steve Gill, chief executive of Durham Tees Valley Airport said
“We welcome the Government’s recommendation for London Heathrow as its preferred location for additional south east capacity. Connectivity into the UK’s global hub is key to supporting economic growth of the regions and secured slots for regional services will ensure the economic benefit including inbound tourism are felt across the UK.
“Heathrow’s announcement proposing that Durham Tees Valley will be one of six domestic routes added once the expansion is completed is welcome and we look forward to working with them and airline partners to explore this in the future.”
Not sure who would operate the route, and the runway isn't guaranteed yet!

[HH6702]

And it's a long way off the market may change completely again

[N707ZS]

Shame Virgin's Little Red hadn't tried the route.

[highwideandugly]

So,that puts our friends at PEEL on the spot and in a pickle....

A) invest and plan for the future.Routes etc..
B)go with the master plan..houses etc. And hope the residents don't kick off when the airport gets busy(like Heathrow!)
C)come up with another master plan (2) now -that alleviates any future problems !!
Or
D)cut an run!

Answers on a postcard please...

Interesting times.:confused:

[SWBKCB]

And you'll find the same story running in relation to every regional airport - once all these new domestic services start they'll need another new runway...

[Bishop01]

what about the terminal??


2025 when the 3rd runway will be operational at Heathrow apparently.. that's if everything goes to plan, so do we really think the terminal at DTV will still be open then??? lets see in 5 years shall we??


On the other hand, lets hope peel get their act together now and pull something out of the bag with flybe flights via Doncaster or W flights from their..

[N707ZS]

highwideandugly:
A: Its all there just mothballed behind a wall, saw it last week.
B: New houses are already being built close to the 05 end.
C,D Nah!

[SWBKCB]

If any LHR flights materialise, they'll just be on the scale of AMS, so what changes would be needed?

What they would do is strength the global connectivity point, so putting Peel in a stronger position with the LA's

[No-More-Bullschit]

Caravans: Issue with a third party company and not the airport as clearly stated and therefore not relevant to this thread, it's a non-story even if it was

Comments under article: Always the same, luckily the majority of [uninformed] members of the general public all thinking the same thing doesn't make it right

[Beafer]

Peels Pinewood Studios has been sold for £323 million.

More money for the rich man on the island. And they say there isn’t any money around. The rich just get richer while taking government grants to put access roads in for housing ;)

Pinewood Group sold for £323m, netting majority shareholders Peel £126m - Prolific North (http://www.prolificnorth.co.uk/2016/10/pinewood-group-sold-for-323m-netting-majority-shareholders-peel-126m/)

Peel and Warren James exit Pinewood Studios in £323m deal | TheBusinessDesk.com (http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/news/741465-peel-and-warren-james-exit-pinewood-studios.html)

[Robert-Ryan]

Well said NMB!

Beafer, this is only my own personal opinion, but I don't give a monkeys about where the money comes from or how right or wrong it is...so long as it comes

[Beafer]

If anyone thinks Peel will be putting any of their own money into DTV or Teesside as it should be known, you'll be waiting a long time.

What was it they said when they got the place for £500k? "We will spend £20m and make it a successful airport"!! :ugh:

Pull the other one, its going the same way as what they did in Sheffield.
Any news on the rubbish plant in Hangar 5?
Have Peel made any announcements while I've been on holiday?
Has Robert Hough been up to spout any new Master Plans? Maybe he is on the island counting the £323m :E

[Robert-Ryan]

Beafer, unlike CO, my alleged alter-ego, (please to God come back!!!) I cannot be a:mad:d to pick apart your last post point-by-point, so I will just keep it nice and simple by saying what a big load of misinformed, inaccurate BS!

[N707ZS]

£323m, well bought it cheap as it was a failing company in a downturned industry. Turned it around back into a success and decided to sell it on.

[Bishop01]

well well well.... no surprise to see anyone from Peel/DTV on the north east news tonight, only Newcastle airport management saying how the extra runway at Heathrow will help the north east... yet again, fair play to Newcastle airports management for promoting the place in any way they can..... :D

[oldart]

well well well.... no surprise to see anyone from Peel/DTV on the north east news tonight, only Newcastle airport management saying how the extra runway at Heathrow will help the north east... yet again, fair play to Newcastle airports management for promoting the place in any way they can..... :D
And of course a deduction of £10 off the Ncl to Lhr fare courtesy of Heathrow airport.

[Robert-Ryan]

Does it really matter?? It was DTVA in all the local papers yesterday not Newcastle so six and two threes?

[tigertanaka]

Probably more to do with the fact that it is easier & quicker to get a film crew to NCL from Newcastle city centre than it is to MME.

[N707ZS]

More horse hit!

[SWBKCB]

AMS 5% down in September - 9,423 to 8,883

[highwideandugly]

Now now SWBKCB you will be getting a bad name like me!
To be fair,with only a few flights per day/week...it only takes a couple of cancellations to massively input on the stats.Also that's before you can actually believe these CAA figures!
However..the Amsterdam figures will be subject to these fluctuations while the Fokker fleet decreases and KLM commit to the Emb. Fleet?
So probably monthly decreases over the year...up to you KLM..put your money where your contract is!:)

[N707ZS]

There is a nice Emb tow bar in a box, so that's a start.

[Robert-Ryan]

We've had a fantastic run there's only so much the numbers can go up by, the route still does very well

[gilesdavies]

Its all well and good DTV hailing the news of the new runway at LHR as good news and potential for a new route, but that will be 2025 at the earliest...

BUT will DTV even exist then or will it be concreted over as a new housing estate?

[Robert-Ryan]

It will just have a similar amount of houses a similar distance away from the runway as most other airports.

That being said, I am highly sceptical about any new Heathrow route materialising

[VentureGo]

KLM 1533 in holding pattern above DTVA at 19,000ft

Weather?

Edit: After finally attempting to land, a/c aborted landing from 150ft (Alt), and has diverted to NCL

[Lancelot37]

Diverted to NCL

[Midland 331]

Here's a useful site that gives airfield weather, including "visibility", which may be "met vis" rather than RVR as it's not runway specific.

Wind Map - Britain Observations (http://www.xcweather.co.uk/)

[LBIA]

The EZE61L from Aberdeen diverted to Leeds as well.

[highwideandugly]

I know the plan is to expand,develop and increase services from DTV. But,HEY. Are PEEL. Actually going to do anything about the provision of ATC services at the airport?? Rumour has it ...it won't get any better!!!

Now that's a great way to develop services ,availability and reputation??:ugh:

CO et al might be cringing..but come on.....!!

[N707ZS]

YES, it was very foggy for a bit this morning!

[jamesgrainge]

I know the plan is to expand,develop and increase services from DTV. But,HEY. Are PEEL. Actually going to do anything about the provision of ATC services at the airport?? Rumour has it ...it won't get any better!!!

Now that's a great way to develop services ,availability and reputation??:ugh:

CO et al might be cringing..but come on.....!!

ATC service is there all day every day as far as I can tell? The CTR caters for the needs of the traffic, class G airspace both sides is basic service and IFR traffic service is irrelevant, what exactly are you wanting? Sorry highwide this is a pointless comment.

[Piltdown Man]

There is a nice Emb tow bar in a box, so that's a start.

Not really a surprise as KLM will saying goodbye to the last of their Fokkers in the back end of 2017. The transition to Embraers is already underway and one of the required peices of support equipment is a towbar (and shear pins). Another is a low-ish (but adjustable) set of steps as these aircraft will not have integral airstairs. Everything else is very standard. So the big question is when? Not a clue I'm afraid.

PM

[highwideandugly]

Excuse me James,just thought as a budding PPL/CPL you would be checking notams before you flew!

[Robert-Ryan]

I always thought closures were few and far between and happen at most airports of this size? Could be wrong.

[jamesgrainge]

Excuse me James,just thought as a budding PPL/CPL you would be checking notams before you flew!

Having read the NOTAM it is a complete non event that. Already basic service between CTR, radar is out of service. Inbound aircraft to follow standard arrival routes presumably as usual in event of radar service being unavailable. Not a big deal.

[highwideandugly]

Thanks James,that explains everything,crystal clear now !!!!!

[jamesgrainge]

Thanks James,that explains everything,crystal clear now !!!!!

Can't tell if this is sarcastic or not haha?

[highwideandugly]

Happy birthday DTV airport..50 years ago today it opened as a civil airport!!

[Robert-Ryan]

A good article in the Echo today:

Durham Tees Valley boss says airport remains at the heart of the region's ambitions as it celebrates 50th anniversary (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/news/14838713.Durham_Tees_Valley_boss_says_airport_remains_at_the _heart_of_the_region_s_ambitions_as_it_celebrates_50th_anniv ersary/)

Though the 50th anniversary was actually two years ago, only the new terminal building was completed and opened in 1966

[aceofthebase]

Rumours abounding down here in sunny London say that Flybe will be looking at starting routes from Northolt (5 miles north of LHR) to Humberside, Liverpool, Dundee, Newquay and last but not least Teesside.

[jamesgrainge]

Rumours abounding down here in sunny London say that Flybe will be looking at starting routes from Northolt (5 miles north of LHR) to Humberside, Liverpool, Dundee, Newquay and last but not least Teesside.

Where is this Teesside you speak of 🤔

[highwideandugly]

Just noticed the Sunday morning departure to Amsterdam not on the boa de..is this a one off or a reduction for the winter?

[Robert-Ryan]

I think it's a '2 off', according to DTVMovements, the KLM timetable is very inconsistent throughout the winter schedule.

Reading some of the objections to the housing recently, it was enough to convince me they will be rejected, in which case I will be very very worried about the future of the airport.

[highwideandugly]

Cause for concern...Eastern schedules erratic,,Now. KLM maybe,possibly,housing...seems to me like not a lot of positive,positives?
It's going to be a hard winter??

[N707ZS]

Bit of a downer from you Robert.
Will be interesting to see what the housing opponents have to say if they do cause damage to what is left of the airport.

On the up side hangar 1 is starting to look good with the door overhaul nearly complete.

[SWBKCB]

So it will all be the opponents of housing fault?

You do have to wonder about Peels approach - a couple of points:

1. the recent comments about LHR just seem to have reflected a general attitude of "we are happy to talk if we're approached" rather than giving the impression of chasing new business; and

2. despite all of Beefer's bluster, he does make the point that Peel aren't short of a few quid and aren't afraid of making bold decisions/investments. But not at DTVA - any investment seems to need to be able to attract outside funding as well, or the selling off assets.

[highwideandugly]

Just another point..it's all positive from Heathrow re expansion etc. We all know it's going to be a long hard road(runway) before tarmac is laid?

So, It's not Heathrow who dictates/organanises flights into their airport.Its down to the airlines..what incentives will PEEL offer these airlines to introduce flights? Time will tell no doubt?

[Robert-Ryan]

Regarding SWBKCBs point #2, I get the impression the conversation between Peel Airports and Peel Holdings went something along the lines of:

PA: "Can we have x millions to build hangars, business parks and industrial units"
PH: "How much return are we going to get from this little venture?"
PA: "Well, we're not exactly sure but we are confident we can deliver x amount of profit"
PH: "You'll have to do better than confident, we need guarantees if you want our money...otherwise raise your own"
PA: "Ok that's what we'll have to do then, plan A will be the Regional Growth Fund, and if that fails then Plan B will be housing"

[Beafer]

Rumours in the village is the housing will be knocked back with the legal objections.
What happens to the master plan if that happens? will the empire come up with a new plan involving wind turbines which has been mooted in the past?
Something is going on at DTV with terminations of councillors on the board. One of whom only joined the board in June, David Walsh.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02020423/filing-history
Jumping ship or asking too many questions which Peel don't want to answer? 4 months must be the shortest time there.
The new accounts are due next month which should be revealing to see how the airport finances are progressing?
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02020423/filing-history
There are a couple of Charges outstanding on the company filed accounts.
Can anybody explain what they mean?
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02020423/charges
One appears to be free hold land k/a St.George Hotel owned by Middlesbrough Council, and the other is to do with all property known as Oak Tree Farm.
Isn't this where the houses are planned for? Does this mean this property is actually owned by that council and the couple mentioned?

[highwideandugly]

Who knows the answers.

It does throw up another scenario though...if the housing is knocked back or even delayed due to planning objections..how much appetite do Peel have for a fight? Will they actually want to put their hands in their pocket and show us the colour of their money?
Or as the realists on this thread( and locals I speak to)think,they will cut and run.
There is no doubt the councils want and need an airport..maybe offer to buy back at a cut rate and then develop over time?

[EK77WNCL]

With KLM's last Fokker 70 being retired on 29/10/17, MME should be getting the new E-175's from 30th October 2017. I'm not sure if any of them will be showing up before then, but they may do. Durham Tees Valley is listed as one of the last destinations based on the schedule for 29/10/17.

Taken from Airlineroute, routesonline:

"Based on preliminary schedule filing for summer 2017 and winter 2017/18 season, KLM Royal Dutch Airlines has temporary filed last Fokker 70 operation on 29OCT17.

As of 06NOV16, KLM’s Fokker 70 operation on 29OCT17 as follow.

Basel/Mulhouse – Amsterdam
Bremen – Amsterdam
Brussels – Amsterdam
Durham Tees Valley – Amsterdam
Dusseldorf – Amsterdam
Frankfurt – Amsterdam
Hanover – Amsterdam
Humberside – Amsterdam
Norwich – Amsterdam

The Fokker 70 aircraft is operated by KLMcityhopper. Schedule listing on/after 29OCT17 displays all KLMcityhopper service operated by Embraer E175/190 aircraft. Last Fokker 70 operation remains subject to change."

[N707ZS]

Last Fokker 70 operation remains subject to change." the short answer:ok:

[Beafer]

With the permanent changes to SRA and lack of full time fire cover, have there been more staff cuts?

NATS: Preflight information services (http://pibs.nats.co.uk/operational/pibs/pib54n.shtml)

EGNV - DURHAM TEES VALLEY

+
Q) EGTT/QPICH/I/NBO/A/000/999/5431N00126W005
REMOVE ALL REFERENCES TO 1NM SRA FOR RWY 05/23
UK AIP EGNV AD 2.24, AD 2-EGNV-8-3 AND AD 2-EGNV-8-7 REFER
C4110/16
FROM: 18 AUG 2016 13:09 TO: PERM
+
Q) EGTT/QOBCE/IV/M/AE/000/007/5439N00120W001
OBST WINDFARM/MAST WI 1NM 543917N 0011933W (RED GAP MOOR,
HARTLEPOOL). UP TO 415FT AGL/665FT AMSL. FOR INFO CONTACT 0207 566
8602 OR 07587 550428. ON EXPIRY OF THIS NOTAM DETAILS WILL BE
INCLUDED IN THE UK AIP ENR 5.4 16-11-0022/AS4
C4980/16
FROM: 01 NOV 2016 00:01 TO: 30 JAN 2017 23:59
+
Q) EGTT/QFFCH/IV/NBO/A/000/999/5431N00126W005
FIRE AND RESCUE CAT WILL BE AS PER AIP ENTRY EXCEPT FOR:
WED
1120-1555 CAT 3
1725-2050 CAT 4
THU
0625-0920 CAT 4
1055-1555 CAT 4
1725-2050 CAT 4
FRI
0625-0920 CAT 4
1050-1555 CAT 4
1725-2050 CAT 4
SAT
0715-0920 CAT 4
1050-2050 CAT 4
SUN
0625-0920 CAT 4
1050-1635 CAT 4
1635-2050 CAT 5
UP TO FIRE CAT 9 AVBL BY PRIOR ARRANGEMENT. SHORT TERM REDUCTIONS OF
CAT MAY OCCUR AT TIMES WHICH WILL NOT AFFECT SCHEDULED TRAFFIC.
DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT IS PPR ONLY.
C5724/16
FROM: 09 NOV 2016 11:20 TO: 13 NOV 2016 20:50

[N707ZS]

Beafer, what you have dug up there is a normal working week, no cut backs just standard practice for the past numerous years. Fire CAT 9 is 747 and don't forget we had a week of 747F visits just this time last year.


Another none story from the news hound! What the first Q is someone more qualified might come along and enlighten us all.

[jamesgrainge]

Beafer, what you have dug up there is a normal working week, no cut backs just standard practice for the past numerous years. Fire CAT 9 is 747 and don't forget we had a week of 747F visits just this time last year.


Another none story from the news hound! What the first Q is someone more qualified might come along and enlighten us all.

Surveillance Radar Approach. The RTR is the distance from touchdown at which the controller stops giving headings, i.e. the distance of the missed approach point from the threshold.

That's actually a direction for removal of approach charts designating 1nm RTR, now back to 2nm. And no I don't know wether it was initially 1nm or a simple mis classification.

[highwideandugly]

No big deal..my understanding is that a one mile SRA needs a dedicated controller who can do no other function. If DTV only has 2 controllers on duty..which is the norm now..then that function couldn't be carried out as there would be no other radar man available for all the other traffic?

I think a lot of uk airports are doing this..and yes its cost cutting,but the norm now ,less service for the customer!!

[highwideandugly]

Sorry meant to add..a 2 mile SRA can be completed while doing other radar tasks.. i.e. With only 2 controllers on duty?

[Beafer]

Regarding the Companies House legal documents.
The outstanding charges appear to mean the land is owned by Middlesbrough Council and its a type of mortgage on the Hotel land.
There are a lot of clauses if things don’t work out the way Peel want.
28 pages. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02020423/charges/886mnkbJgXmQlS6vp6CLFlq57-o

The other charge relates to a couple who own the Oak Tree land.
3 pages. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02020423/charges/6PjT1DyF-sOQGPrvCZy0QIrvI-0
Unless I am mistaken, Peel do not own all of the land which they are asking to build on. The land ownership plot thickens.
Wonder why the other councils didn't hang on to the freehold like Middlesbrough and the couple mentioned?
It may become clear when the airport sale documents are made public.
Still no explanation why councillor Walsh jumped ship after 4 months on the DTV board?

[No-More-Bullschit]

It may become clear when the airport sale documents are made public.
They won't. Nor should they be.

[highwideandugly]

Latest Movement and passenger figures out for September....Ouch

[Robert-Ryan]

Latest Movement and passenger figures out for September....Ouch

Care to elaborate...?

[highwideandugly]

Although the CAA stats website is all over the place at the moment...the following gives an idea.

Air Transport movements down 11.8%
Terminal passengers down 11.5%
Amsterdam down 6%
Aberdeen down 15%. This might change as Aberdeen figures not all in.

All year on year...

[highwideandugly]

Some extra flights by Titan for 2017
Dubrovnik. 6/8
Naples. 29/7
Friedrichshafen. 13/8
Venice. 22/7

[Robert-Ryan]

So the upshot is the oil and gas sector is still dragging the numbers down, it will be interesting to see if we're up or down for the year

[N707ZS]

Someone mentioned a weeks holiday in Moscow.

[highwideandugly]

Was it Donald Trump?

[N707ZS]

Here you go,


http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjmiYu5s6TQAhVEDcAKHcmUAssQFghDMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newmarketholidays.co.uk%2F16058%2Fair-holidays-and-breaks%2Feuropean-holidays%2Fmoscow-and-st-petersburg&usg=AFQjCNHD606O58l_FY2g358GFMPOlAOraA&sig2=h1v2L23tErg1ZdR0kWJSlw

[VentureGo]

Thomas Cook G-NIKO has just landed from Manchester as Flight no. MT/TCX 4794. No other info and no schedules out. Anyone know purpose of this flight?

MT4794 has been BHX to Dalaman earlier this year

[Robert-Ryan]

Crew training

[jamesgrainge]

Did everyone enjoy the Airbus flying around? Always nice to see a new aircraft using the runway, unfortunately I was back on the ground before it arrived, thankfully or my little Piper would have been blown out to sea 😂

[highwideandugly]

Anyone know why a few Amsterdam cancellations recently?
Wonder if the phasing out of Fokkers will effect all schedule routes until the new EMBs come on stream?

[Robert-Ryan]

One theory is the Fokkers are being retired faster than the E-Jets are coming online, causing an aircraft shortage

[highwideandugly]

Still not good for the 'thinner' routes.
Anyone know a schedule or when DTV can expect new aircraft?

[P330]

Still not good for the 'thinner' routes.
Anyone know a schedule or when DTV can expect new aircraft?

The F70s are scheduled until October 2017; I.e the date of retirement. I am of the opinion the cancellations are Fokker related too. Only 12 now left in the fleet and more going over the coming months. I wonder if the lower loads of recent weeks are also playing a part?

I did a return into Europe via AMS this week and used Newcastle; first time in a while with the decision based on the MME cancellations. Came back home yesterday and found the MME tea time cancelled, so it was a good move. Interesting though, the 737s from Newcastle didn't appear as full as normal (or maybe it was just the time of day).

[highwideandugly]

Interesting..so even with the DTV loads on the NCL, flights still not good? Maybe Brexit starting to bite in the region?? What aircraft type were you on?

[P330]

I can only answer for the flights I was on of course, but it was a 738 outbound and a 73G coming back; the latter very quiet.

I think they run mainly 737s x 4 in Winter and switch to mainly E190s x 5 in the Summer up there (roughly speaking).

[P330]

On the Newcastle thread, they are quoting AMS down nearly 5%, so maybe my experience isn't so anecdotal?

[Robert-Ryan]

We are not a thinner route for KLM we are quite high yielding, loads are still good despite recent minor declines. We are keeping the Fokkers until the last day of operation (27th October I believe) because we're an engineering base for KLM

[Piltdown Man]

RR - Some airports had to be chosen to be the last served by a F70. It just so happens MME may be one of the last. But if for any reason the loads regularly increase to 66+ or more higher yielding fares are sold believe me, the Embraer will arrive earlier. Also, because the E175 has 88 seats this aircraft can be slotted in whenever it is convenient. So even though an F70 is currently scheduled for this period, it doesn't necessarily mean that this will be the case. The important thing is that people know that KLM are planning provide a service to AMS for years to come. It is just a shame that some have been let down by recent cancellations.

PM

[Beafer]

A Boeing 777 landed at DTV today and is parked on the west side of the airport.
Is it a VIP on holiday or have they come to buy DTV Airport ;)

[N707ZS]

Its Donald Trump!

[Bishop01]

I've heard its taking peel/DTV management to their Christmas doo, and being paid for out of the several years that peel have had the £6 fee from the passengers using the terminal..... but them again, don't think they've had enough passengers to do that....

[SWBKCB]

The word is wrong - do you think Saudi Royals have to hire jets?

[Robert-Ryan]

The word is definitely wrong and I'm not surprised given the word has never once been right.

The clue is on the movements website "the 777 will be here a while"

[oldart]

The word is definitely wrong and I'm not surprised given the word has never once been right.

The clue is on the movements website "the 777 will be here a while"
777 for storage? Another Mid East 737 arriving today, I am not going to guess why.

[Robert-Ryan]

The movements website isn't usually coy about aircraft destined for Sycamore, looking today it appears to confirm storage is in fact the reason for the visit.

[Beafer]

Peel appear to be having problems with the Master Plan part 2
Highways England - houses and airports don't mix.
A66 concerns raise doubts over 350 home airport plan - Gazette Live (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/a66-concerns-raise-doubts-over-12227111)

Over to you Robert - Hough...

[Beafer]

Part of the report.
In a consultation response to the plans, Highways England recommends that planning permission “not be granted for a specified period” over fears of disruption and road safety on the A66 .

And another report written by a Darlington Council Environmental Health officer says that “considerable uncertainties” in predicting future levels of noise at the airport means that the plans could only be approved with a strict set of conditions.

That report acknowledges that although the airport has current planning permission to raise passenger numbers to three million a year, that is “unlikely to be enacted” by developers.

But it says as the final site layout is yet to be confirmed, some homeowners may not be able to open their windows as noise would be “likely to exceed recommended levels”.

[N707ZS]

Hope save the airport group have a master plan if Peel decide to give up on aviation. "Sorry folks, my bleat", just like Doris the airport destroyer they haven't got a clue as to what they are talking about.

[Beafer]

Once Peel are out of the way the airlines will return.

It was Peel who pushed Thomsons out of the door.
They only ever wanted the land to build on.
Hopefully somebody in the councils will get a grip as George once suggested in this article :ok:
Thomson flights axed from Durham Tees Valley Airport - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-24724265)
The group will have a better idea of how to run an airport than all the Peel Master Plan rubbish.

[N707ZS]

Come on then if Peel ever did leave who is going to bail the place out? Councils have no money, that's why they sold it, its never made a profit.

[No-More-Bullschit]

Once Peel are out of the way the airlines will return.

It was Peel who pushed Thomsons out of the door.
They only ever wanted the land to build on.
Hopefully somebody in the councils will get a grip as George once suggested in this article
Thomson flights axed from Durham Tees Valley Airport - BBC News
The group will have a better idea of how to run an airport than all the Peel Master Plan rubbish.
If Peel go the airport will fall.

They are the ones who are voluntarily absorbing a multi-million pound loss, they are the ones voluntarily keeping the place open where most if not all others would shut up shop

[Robert-Ryan]

Good job most of Beafers posts get laughed off as nonsense

[Robert-Ryan]

A bit like Roberts posts and the Peel master plan.
Don't forget to hand the hangar keys back to Peel when you go back on the beat in April
You keep telling yourself that...I won't pretend I don't get the occasional post ridiculed but the evidence is largely in my favour

[SWBKCB]

Once Peel are out of the way the airlines will return.

What makes you think that?


Come on then if Peel ever did leave who is going to bail the place out? Councils have no money, that's why they sold it, its never made a profit.

Yes - this piece of history always get forgotten - that's way the airport was sold "on the cheap" - not a con or a rip-off, the councils were getting rid of a money drain they couldn't afford.

[N707ZS]

Problem is they don't understand this.

[P330]

Do we know when the final planning decision is to be made?

On the one hand, I don't want to see houses built as it is an obvious conflict. However, if it is an integral part of the plan and it gets knocked back, what happens next?

[onion]

There was me thinking the reason for the sale was to bring in a commercial partner to help raise capital for re development.
I have records showing the airport making money 20 odd years ago. Do you have evidence to say it was losing money 15 years ago?

The glaringly obvious is that a one off sale of land to housing developers is only going to raise a one off figure which may or may not be spent on the airport. On top of this DBC even suggest this would stifle growth, they mention pax growth but let not forget that GA in the circuit will actually be more annoying. After all Peels strategy is now diversification of operations (I'm all for this) but noise is noise and whether it's an airport with 200000 movements and 150k pax or 200000 movements and 1m pax you get the same problems.
I supported Peel when they came, I believed it would be good for the airport, but now I see them for who they are. They have run the place into the ground and this cannot be argued any more! They are after one thing and one thing only development land and to hell with the airport!

[Bishop01]

There was me thinking the reason for the sale was to bring in a commercial partner to help raise capital for re development.
I have records showing the airport making money 20 odd years ago. Do you have evidence to say it was losing money 15 years ago?

The glaringly obvious is that a one off sale of land to housing developers is only going to raise a one off figure which may or may not be spent on the airport. On top of this DBC even suggest this would stifle growth, they mention pax growth but let not forget that GA in the circuit will actually be more annoying. After all Peels strategy is now diversification of operations (I'm all for this) but noise is noise and whether it's an airport with 200000 movements and 150k pax or 200000 movements and 1m pax you get the same problems.
I supported Peel when they came, I believed it would be good for the airport, but now I see them for who they are. They have run the place into the ground and this cannot be argued any more! They are after one thing and one thing only development land and to hell with the airport!

Well said onion.....can't agree more....
I've been going up their well over 45 years and never seen the place so bad....
peel obviously know how to run an airport.. (look at Doncaster)... but thiers only one place their running this place.. "that's into the ground"... and while on about the masterplan and south side... this has been going on for years... well before peel come along...

Peel now have a good chance to make something of the airport by doubling up/W flybe flights now that doncaster is a flybe base.. so let's just see what peel do, as if nothing comes of it, then I'm afraid even the so called 'peel lovers' have to question peels intentions!!

[Mickey Kaye]

Peel certainly don't have a good record for developing airports but they certainly have a good record for building on them eg Sheffield.

Also airports that have developed under their leadership was largely done using other peoples money eg EU grants for EGCN

And my past experiences of peel have been that they have little or no interest in encouraging GA operations.

[Robert-Ryan]

They have run the place into the ground and this cannot be argued any more!
Yes it can! Prove it! The only thing Peel have done themselves that could be considered adverse toward the airport is axing inclusive tour charter flights, and whilst it is bound to divide opinion, the reasons for it make sense to me - that doesn't mean I like it, of course I don't, we should be an Airbus and Boeing airport as far as I'm concerned.

Aside from this, literally every other significant piece of business lost was because of circumstances relating to the client and not the host.

[jamesgrainge]

Get yourself down to the field and enjoy the view of the 737 and 767 sat on the apron, sorry if they have gone I didn't check in on Wednesday.

[mmeman]

Moving away from Peel, Omega Holidays are doing some one off charters next year, Friedrichshafen, Dubrovnik, Venice and Naples using Eastern's Embraer 170, through July and August. Nothing on the airports website just yet.

[onion]

Robert-Ryan, Peel have done their up most to make the place un attractive to airline investment. Fire cover and ATC cover has been axed, I know of staff that have been hounded out, no investment in the place. Where has the promised £25m been spent?
If they put as much effort into actually operating as an airport rather than a housing development the place wouldn't be struggling as much.

[SWBKCB]

There was me thinking the reason for the sale was to bring in a commercial partner to help raise capital for re development.
I have records showing the airport making money 20 odd years ago. Do you have evidence to say it was losing money 15 years ago?

Sorry, my mistake - yes, it was because the LA's didn't have the money for the required investment.

Peel certainly don't have a good record for developing airports but they certainly have a good record for building on them eg Sheffield.

Funny how Sheffield always gets mentioned but Liverpool doesn't - plenty of building taken place at Speke, fair to say the area has been transformed and the airport isn't doing so bad either.

[Robert-Ryan]

Robert-Ryan, Peel have done their up most to make the place un attractive to airline investment. Fire cover and ATC cover has been axed, I know of staff that have been hounded out, no investment in the place. Where has the promised £25m been spent?
If they put as much effort into actually operating as an airport rather than a housing development the place wouldn't be struggling as much.

Fire and ATC cover was reduced to help stem an unsustainable loss, it does trouble me deeply but it's a hard life, it's not practical to keep a number of staff on the books in the hope that an airline might come along during times when airlines don't bother with airports of our size. Someone once said on here that Absorbing the annual loss counts toward the £25m in which case they've spent more, again the logic of that troubles me but I understand it. I can't comment on the staff though I have heard stories.

As far as I can see your response is mostly opinion so I'll say again - prove that they have run the place into the ground...

[skyman771]

Robert-RyanThe only thing Peel have done themselves that could be considered adverse toward the airport is axing inclusive tour charter flights,
Well I'd say that was about as fundamental to the destruction of an airport as it gets.
Then there are those posting on this site whose interests are to say the least questionable.:E

[Robert-Ryan]

Well I'd say that was about as fundamental to the destruction of an airport as it gets.
I agree to an extent, I guess it depends on whether or not you understand the reasoning. The point is it's just one instance out of about 20-30 instances.
Then there are those posting on this site whose interests are to say the least questionable.
Definitely

[SWBKCB]

The only thing Peel have done themselves that could be considered adverse toward the airport is axing inclusive tour charter flights,

So, in the interest of balance, what have Peel done to develop and expand the airport?
On 07/01/03 it was announced that Peel Airports would be the ‘preferred bidder’ to become a Strategic Partner in the airports long-term development, with detailed negotiations taking place with the aim of finalising an agreement by March. Councillor Bob Gibson, speaking on behalf of the shareholder authorities, said they were impressed with the level of investment and expertise which the company was prepared to commit to Teesside International, coupled with the its strong track record in the transportation and property development fields. Peel will be working with the local authority shareholders to bring forward development of commercial property at the airport, including the regionally important Southside site, in addition to the operational business of the airport.

Robert Hough, chairman of Peel Airports, said: "Teesside International Airport has seen significant improvements, but in an increasingly competitive market for air services it is now entering an important phase in its development. We believe this proposed investment by Peel will enable its full potential to be achieved, providing greater choice to business and leisure passengers alike in a major conurbation and also bringing significant economic benefits. For Peel, it enables the group to expand in the regional airport sector, where it has achieved considerable success in recent years, particularly in the growth at Liverpool John Lennon Airport. With Liverpool in the North West and probably also Finningley in Yorkshire , the Peel Group will be able to serve the three key northern regions of England". Peter Nears, Peels strategic planning director, said: "Airports are widely recognised as drivers of economic growth and therefore maximising the regenerative benefits Teesside International Airport can bring to the local economy will be a priority. In particular, we see synergies between the services the airport provides and adjacent commercial development opportunities."

[onion]

Robert-Ryan and you posts aren't opinion?
I would say a lack of investment (even when promised), axing of flights, services and a pre occupation with housing development is enough evidence!

[Robert-Ryan]

Well I disagree so stalemate I guess

[Robert-Ryan]

Beafer open your eyes and read my original post that graph proves we've lost services not that Peel have lost services, 90% of said services lost for reasons concerning the client and not Peel

Once again you try to make a fool out of someone and end up looking like the bigger fool

So up to now the armchair experts can provide plenty of theory but still no real proof

[SWBKCB]

90% of said services lost for reasons concerning the client

So DTVA has just been unlucky with it's operators being unsuccessful? Doesn't that in itself tell its own story?

Maybe DTVA could only attract the marginal players. Isn't it telling that more robust operators didn't step in when these disappeared?

Look at this link - it's quite staggering the amount of IT traffic which has disappeared. Also, weren't RYR in DTVA before NCL? Wasn't the airport tax Peel's idea?

http://www.dtvmovements.co.uk/Archivesmonths/2003/2003-Jun.pdf

[Robert-Ryan]

Its like groundhog day with your Reberto. Are you blind sat between Hangars 1 and 2? Read and digest. :ugh:

We are not wanted, says Thomson holidays as it announces flights from Durham Tees Valley Airport to be axed (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10768619.We_are_not_wanted__says_Thomson_holidays_as_it_anno unces_flights_from_Durham_Tees_Valley_Airport_to_be_axed/)

Just incase you missed the news about Peel forcing Thomsons out.
Thomson flights axed from Durham Tees Valley Airport - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-24724265)

Do you really think the way to beat me is to take my own post change the words slightly and then use it against me??? You talk of groundhog day...remind me again how many times over do you ask the same questions? I have little respect on this thread, but so long as I have ten fold more than you I'll be happy

[N707ZS]

"We can confirm that there will be no flights to Palma and Ibiza operated by Thomson Holidays for the summer 2014 season.
Palma and Ibiza, TWO flights a week summer time only, what should the airport have done got trained staff on zero hours? and then just got them in for about 12 hours a week?


Beafer, when you are cornered why do you try insults by shortening peoples names, why insults at all?

[SWBKCB]

So how is the BE Jersey staffed in the middle of a Saturday afternoon - hours from any other flight? How many extra staff compared to those for KLM or Eastern? Why sign the contract with TOM and BGH in the first place?

[Robert-Ryan]

Jersey only requires minimum staff, they signed the contract in the hope more would be gained and only when it became apparent there wouldn't be did they pull the plug

[SWBKCB]

they signed the contract in the hope more would be gained and only when it became apparent there wouldn't be did they pull the plug

Unbelievable :eek:

[Beafer]

I suppose Peel look on DTV Airport as a minnow in their plans when you look at who Tokenhouse are.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Peel_Group
The Peel Group has a complex business structure comprising 320 registered companies and subsidiaries in the UK. Its ultimate parent company is the Isle of Man-based Tokenhouse Ltd.
73% of Peel is owned by the Billown Trust, controlled by chairman John Whittaker. The remainder of Peel is owned by the Olayan Group
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olayan_Group

[SWBKCB]

Interesting nobody is talking about the new Teesside Airport Ltd which was set up in 2015 but there you go.

What is there to talk about?

[Beafer]

Interesting the parent company don't pay much tax. They just use public funds instead.
Revealed: how the company regenerating the Clyde pays as little tax as possible (From HeraldScotland) (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13150676.Revealed__how_the_company_regenerating_the_Clyde_pa ys_as_little_tax_as_possible/)
Vince Cable who is quoted in the article has a point.
All of Peel's national and international concerns lead back, through a complex web of intermediate "parent" companies and subsidiaries, to Tokenhouse Limited, a company with total assets reportedly worth more than £18bn. Tokenhouse Limited is registered in the Isle of Man.
"The Isle of Man is a renowned offshore tax haven. In a 2012 speech, Business Secretary Vince Cable described tax havens such as the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands and the Cayman Islands as "sunny places for shady people".

[highwideandugly]

Bet Cautious is desperate to get his typewriter out!!

When all is said and done,nobody really knows the thoughts of the Peel finance people.There are so many variables in this saga.
Time will tell which of the protagonists and which of the hopefuls on this site will turn out right!

It has more turns than Corrie,Emmerdale and Eastenders ever did!!

Still a very sad uncertain time for the few employed staff still there and a desperate time for a potential major facility for the NE.

[onion]

So all we can say that is fact, is that Peel (the airport) kicked Thomson out (yet allow one off 737 and larger operations; seems strange when they say Thomson's operations cost money), over saw a larger than average drop in pax, no real increase since the recovery in aviation, a pre occupation with houses, introduction of a pax tax (that from what I see is being creamed off!), the harassment/ill treatment of staff (I challenge Peel to come out and say they haven't) and the cutting of fire and ATC cover making the place seem a joke at times.
So Robert-Ryan what facts can you riposte with?

[SWBKCB]

Jersey only requires minimum staff

How many extra staff are needed for a B738/A320 as opposed to a Fk70/DHC-8/EMB?

How are the one off charters such as Newmarket/Santa flights handled?

[onion]

How many extra staff are needed for a B738/A320 as opposed to a Fk70/DHC-8/EMB?

How are the one off charters such as Newmarket/Santa flights handled?

It's Fire cover that is the big difference between a 737 and a F70 etc.
Question still stands why are the willing to provide it for (regular) one offs but not weekly holiday flights?

[N707ZS]

One off flights pay for the extra cover, same as night extensions cost a lot more.

[SWBKCB]

Palma and Ibiza, TWO flights a week summer time only, what should the airport have done got trained staff on zero hours? and then just got them in for about 12 hours a week?

Surely the one-off flights then face the same issues?

[Robert-Ryan]

So all we can say that is fact, is that Peel (the airport) kicked Thomson out (yet allow one off 737 and larger operations; seems strange when they say Thomson's operations cost money), over saw a larger than average drop in pax, no real increase since the recovery in aviation, a pre occupation with houses, introduction of a pax tax (that from what I see is being creamed off!), the harassment/ill treatment of staff (I challenge Peel to come out and say they haven't) and the cutting of fire and ATC cover making the place seem a joke at times.
So Robert-Ryan what facts can you riposte with?

The drop in pax was not larger than average we just felt it more because we were smaller to start with and aviation has not recovered for third tier airports. You adapt or you die.

[inOban]

Reading this and other threads, I am forced to the conclusion that there is no viable business case for third tier airports such as PIK and DTV. The staff and equipment required for international services can only be justified if there are regular movements all day,week and year. And the airlines have forced airports to depend more and more on revenue from concessions, and without these regular movements there is no business case for these concessions. It would be interesting to discuss what is the minimum number of PAX which would make an airport viable.

[Robert-Ryan]

The tide will turn, airports will start to get a fair deal out of airline contracts again, but it will be a few years yet and for us to try and be at the forefront of some kind of airport revolution like we are doing will either proof genius or dangerous

[SWBKCB]

be at the forefront of some kind of airport revolution like we are doing will either proof genius or dangerous

Sorry, have I missed something - what airport revolution?

[onion]

The drop in pax was not larger than average we just felt it more because we were smaller to start with and aviation has not recovered for third tier airports. You adapt or you die.

LOL, Robert-Ryan are you serious?
So you are telling me that all airports lost around 70% of their pax through put?
I ll reiterate it Peel over saw a higher than average drop in pax numbers, this is FACT you can not argue it!

[N707ZS]

Possible airport revolution, when airports make money from flights again not just making money from car parks and some annoying shopping nightmare you have to go through before you get to the departure lounge!

[Robert-Ryan]

LOL, Robert-Ryan are you serious?
So you are telling me that all airports lost around 70% of their pax through put?
I ll reiterate it Peel over saw a higher than average drop in pax numbers, this is FACT you can not argue it!
I can argue it and it's not too hard either, if you think that is a fact then frankly you don't know the meaning of the word, do I seriously need to break it down airline by airline, operator by operator and list the well publicised reasons for leaving?? Besides which wasn't it mentioned on here not so long ago that Peel also built up the "golden years" business in the first place?

If Peel were running the place into the ground and making it so obvious that they were doing so, then why not simply be done with it and shut the place because what difference does it make?? I know property developers are known for sitting on land for a number of years but it doesn't take 13 years and counting to shut an airport, besides which, Peel aren't even exclusively property developers, look at their portfolio, they have a number of ports, be it air, sea or otherwise...surely they can't all be being run down! :ugh:

[Get me some traffic]

Peel most certainly did not build up the "golden years." They paid £500,000 for a healthy and thriving business that needed investment. They promised £25m and gave nothing!

[SWBKCB]

I know property developers are known for sitting on land for a number of years but it doesn't take 13 years and counting to shut an airport, besides which, Peel aren't even exclusively property developers, look at their portfolio, they have a number of ports, be it air, sea or otherwise...surely they can't all be being run down!

Which is possibly the real puzzle - Peel are a large, rich (thank you Beefer, we've got it now!) bold operator/investor, yet while they haven't let the wheels fall off completely, it's not exactly full steam ahead either.

Peel took over in 2003 when pax were around 700k, they then went up to about 900k, they're now around 150k.

I can only think of Coventry and Blackpool in the "third tier" who have done worse - Newquay, Exeter, Bournemouth, Norwich, Humberside, Finningley, Southend have all done better.

[Bishop01]

Which is possibly the real puzzle - Peel are a large, rich (thank you Beefer, we've got it now!) bold operator/investor, yet while they haven't let the wheels fall off completely, it's not exactly full steam ahead either.

Peel took over in 2003 when pax were around 700k, they then went up to about 900k, they're now around 150k.

I can only think of Coventry and Blackpool in the "third tier" who have done worse - Newquay, Exeter, Bournemouth, Norwich, Humberside, Finningley, Southend have all done better.

"Is it me or is cautious optimist back under another username... again??"

Seems a similar pattern here with so called Robert... "The facts" man!!

[onion]

Robert-Ryan what was the average drop in pax figure at airports after the 2008 financial crash then? I believe a figure of 12% was the aviation downturn (maybe wrong). So that would of been a loss of 100k max! So please tell, how you make it that 800k loss is not bigger than average!

[Robert-Ryan]

Peel most certainly did not build up the "golden years." They paid £500,000 for a healthy and thriving business that needed investment. They promised £25m and gave nothing!
bmibaby, Flyglobespan, Wizz Air, extra Ryanair and Eastern flights all came about under Peels watch, granted it all went again, but as said it went for reasons concerning the operators (change in business model, bankruptcies, recession etc etc etc)

Newquay, Exeter, Bournemouth, Norwich, Humberside, Finningley, Southend have all done better.
and how healthy are their finances for it me wonders, I know Southend at least were losing a lot of money

"Is it me or is cautious optimist back under another username... again??"

Seems a similar pattern here with so called Robert... "The facts" man!!
That old chestnut, bored of it now...believe it or not it is possible for more than one user to share the same views and opinions, CO was a Peel fanatic, whilst I lean towards pro-Peel there are things about them I despise, believe it or not.

[Robert-Ryan]

Robert-Ryan what was the average drop in pax figure at airports after the 2008 financial crash then? I believe a figure of 12% was the aviation downturn (maybe wrong). So that would of been a loss of 100k max! So please tell, how you make it that 800k loss is not bigger than average!
Ok, I'll concede that point, but I still maintain Thomson is the only business lost as a direct result of the actions of Peel - possibly Wizz Air too who may or may not have been deliberately guided to Doncaster, as I do believe the Peel Airports world revolves around Doncaster.

[SWBKCB]

Didn't Ryanair go because of the airport tax? And Balkan Holidays got the elbow before they started!

[jetstar.8]

"Is it me or is cautious optimist back under another username... again??"

Seems a similar pattern here with so called Robert... "The facts" man!!
I thought the same back at the begining of October

[Bishop01]

Ok, I'll concede that point, but I still maintain Thomson is the only business lost as a direct result of the actions of Peel - possibly Wizz Air too who may or may not have been deliberately guided to Doncaster, as I do believe the Peel Airports world revolves around Doncaster.

Yeah... the dtv yes men bowed to Doncaster with regards to wizz....another bad decision! And what about the four/five weekly Onur air turkey flights that ended... where did all the passengers go for the rest of the summer season, with no sign of a replacement airline.. so up to Newcastle and down to leeds.. and they wonder why they can't afford IT flights anymore...

And the so called Belfast route, that was going to be operated by an airline who were operating out of another peel airport that was stopping operations, which peel must have known about... you couldn't rite this and people still backing the peel operations here at DTV...

[Bishop01]

It's a well known FACT that ryanair would b back if dtv got rid if the £6 fee... this should have been seriously thought about before brining it in... look at Newquay. .They dropped theirs and ryanair back the next day... I can hear all the peel and fodtv characters saying now "You don't make money from ryanair"

[N707ZS]

After a weekends debate we have gotten nowhere as no one on here including me doesn't know a thing about what has happened or what will happen in the future!

[Bishop01]

After a weekends debate we have gotten nowhere as no one on here including me doesn't know a thing about what has happened or what will happen in the future!

So why is it, (even you N707ZS).. say all the time that us so called people who can see through all this peel rubbish "dont know nothing" peel don't know what their doing, but one thing that is a (FACT) is that the passenger numbers are still going down... when all our neighbours are going up.
like I said in an earlier post.. if peel/dtv don't do something with flybe and doncaster now then all you peel lovers have to question peels intentions regarding this airport...
theirs the demand out their and I'm not having this recession rubbish you peel lovers are spouting...

[Robert-Ryan]

Final piece on the subject from me, least of all because I'm starting to look like I have to have the last word.

It's a well known FACT that ryanair would b back if dtv got rid if the £6 fee...
Not necessarily
I can hear all the peel and fodtv characters saying now "You don't make money from ryanair"
That's because it's true, that PFF machine makes the airport more money than Ryanair will ever hand over (not a fodtva member either by the way)

You try to give the place a bit of defence and the conspiracy theorists come out of the woodwork in the masses claiming those in support of Peel are too blind to see what's really going on...no-one can possibly know what is really going on from the outside looking in, and those in support of Peel more often than not are on the inside in some way shape or form.

If Peel wanted the airport dead it would already be dead.

[No-More-Bullschit]

Far too much bullschit on this thread at the moment - from both sides

[skyman771]

Robert-RyanThat's because it's true, that PFF machine makes the airport more money than Ryanair will ever hand over
Easy to make such a dismissive response Robert... and you are able to back this up / had access to the detailed financial workings, projections, sensitivity analysis etc?
I think this is a classic case of "put up or shut up"......
no-one can possibly know what is really going on from the outside looking in, and those in support of Peel more often than not are on the inside in some way shape or form.
Always easy to state the obvious!! "turkeys voting for Xmas & all that.." so which side are you on Robert ? which takes me back to my original point.

[Beafer]

Any news from the councils about the private company Norwaste Group Ltd plans to put a refuse station next to the taxi-way on the old Hangar 5 site?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/dl2-1hw-norwaste-group-limited-environmental-permit-application-advertisement/dl2-1hw-norwaste-group-limited-environmental-permit-application-advertisement

17,000 tonnes of rubbish a year were planned
https://consult.environment-agency.gov.uk/psc/dl2-1hw-norwaste-group-limited/supporting_documents/Application%20Forms.pdf

[N707ZS]

Beafer, think you need to go see a shrink, this obsession is going to get you nowhere, asking on here gets you nowhere. Typing for hours investigating, gets you nowhere!

[Robert-Ryan]

During last weekends debacle on here I often started to feel like some of my points were wrong, and sure enough I do think I need to reconsider some of my views, but Beafer, N707ZS is bang on the money - you're loony.

I still don't think Peel are/have a need to run the airport into the ground and as far as I'm concerned (and I appreciate I cannot expect everyone to share this view) they can have my public money, and I'm glad they got the airport for nowt because they've kept it open longer than literally any other entity would have done.

[Bishop01]

During last weekends debacle on here I often started to feel like some of my points were wrong, and sure enough I do think I need to reconsider some of my views, but Beafer, N707ZS is bang on the money - you're loony.

I still don't think Peel are/have a need to run the airport into the ground and as far as I'm concerned (and I appreciate I cannot expect everyone to share this view) they can have my public money, and I'm glad they got the airport for nowt because they've kept it open longer than literally any other entity would have done.

Well I don't think beefer is a so called "looney".... 'he does somthing called research'....perhaps RR and N707ZS should do it before coming on here with your criticism of the guy...
RR... Have you seen any contracts when peel were given the place from the council's by any chance???
I take not... maybe theirs a clause in the contract that's says peel can't shut it for a certain number of years..

[N707ZS]

Beafer probably has a thousand useful points but what use is it just ranting on here?

[Robert-Ryan]

Bishop, I do research and there is a world of difference between research and the obsessive dirt digging Beafer does. At the end of the day the history of this thread proves more people share our views towards Beafer than not.

Perhaps there is a clause though...you may well be right

[aviation88]

Good Day All,

Does anyone happen to know where I could get a terminal layout map of the almost none-existent Durham Tees Valley Airport? New or old....

Searching everywhere without success....:ugh:

[aviation88]

Does anyone know where I could get a terminal layout map for DTVA?

[oldart]

Does anyone know where I could get a terminal layout map for DTVA?
Friends of DTVA might be able to help you, address on their web site.

[SWBKCB]

All very quiet (though one of the stored Middle East Jets departed today) - so some light relief from the Gazette...

The station was used 98 times in 2015-2016, by far the lowest in the region.
But that figure is four times higher than the number of people who used it the previous year, when 32 people got on or off the train at the airport.


Can you guess how busy Teesside Airport station has been? It's booming, relatively speaking - Gazette Live (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/can-you-guess-how-busy-12308446)

[N707ZS]

It been buzzing with bizz jets and DA 20s all day!

[Bishop01]

I see October 2016 passenger figures out...
another drop (-14) 12,143 Oct 2015 down to 10,476 Oct 2016
do we know how 2016 is going regarding passenger figures?? or do I need to ask??

[highwideandugly]

Don't ask,you will get shot down!!

[Robert-Ryan]

Are the CAA publishing figures again?

[INKJET]

Hey remember the Halcyon days of bmibaby...DTV could do it again, no landing fee's or nav charges, so long as you carry 170 people on every flight in/out, yes it would cost the council a fortune, but it would put the area back on the map and shopping/car parking and employment would go through the roof.

[Robert-Ryan]

Prospective new airlines already get fees waivered as an incentive

[10 DME ARC]

Hey remember the Halcyon days of bmibaby...

Really.......from wiki;

Insufficient passenger numbers led to the closure of the Durham Tees Valley base in 2006,

[N707ZS]

Interesting watching 9 DA 20s return today must be busy with someone out in the North sea.

[Robert-Ryan]

Since when does anyone believe Wikipedia, there may have been an issue with yield but there was no shortage of passengers

[SWBKCB]

Insufficient passenger numbers

there may have been an issue with yield but there was no shortage of passengers

This is getting silly now - so what is a sufficient number of passengers? Maybe it means insufficient number of passengers to make a profit?

bmiBaby didn't leave because they were making so much money they couldn't find enough wheelbarrows to take it to the bank.

[Robert-Ryan]

What are you on about? It's simple enough if you've got a full 733 of 148 passengers but all have paid the base fare say £10pp you're not going to make profit, whereas if you're filling your planes full of late booking passengers at £50 a pop you're laughing. Rumour was bmibaby was consistently filling planes full of £10 passengers. Another rumour is they wanted a better deal with the airport than they already had, and the airport refused because they were already getting minimal profit as it was.

The truth is we'll never know

[tigertanaka]

Just speculating but even if the route was making a profit, BMI may well have just wanted to sell the slot pairs at LHR.

Current market price is $75m a pair (AF/KL to Oman Air) - clearly would have been less in 2006 but they would have been worth a pretty penny even in those days.

[SWBKCB]

RR - the word sufficient means "enough for a particular purpose", so for a commercial company that purpose will generally be to make a profit.

You state that there was no shortage of passengers, but as 10 DME ARC says, there was an insufficient number i.e. they weren't paying enough.

If bmiBaby were filling the planes but operating at a loss, that will been because they couldn't sell seats at the higher price needed to make a profit - a seat sold for £10 loses less money than an empty seat.

If they couldn't generate sufficient income, of course they're going to try and reduce costs - how else you expect them to stay in business.

And as Beefer keeps asking, what did happen to the court case money?

[Robert-Ryan]

We must have gotten our wires crossed as that is the point I was trying to make

[highwideandugly]

Belfast City sold to 3i any mileage in Peel selling out??

Maybe a long shot,but hey,really seem to be treading water,unless someone can provide some actual,positive news?:ugh:

[N707ZS]

No, and happy thank you!;)

[highwideandugly]

Nero continues to fiddle while DTV simmers!!

[No-More-Bullschit]

Before wishing for a sale you should probably bear in mind what happened in the months following the previous sale of the airport (to the Canadians)...we reached our lowest ebb :rolleyes:

[highwideandugly]

Merry Xmas all and here's to a productive 2017!

It's been one of the more colourful airport PPRUNE threads and has entertained,infuriated,upset and caused a few laughs along the way!!

We are probably still no further forward than the last couple of years...but I look forward to the 2016/2017 annual re view on DTV movements and maybe some interesting suprises in the coming months?

Keep the faith!!

[Bishop01]

Morning all.. hope everyone had a nice Christmas day...


'YES' it will be interesting to see what the DTV movements review says for 2016, but with it been written by a Peel fanatic, 'who we all know very well on here' it will be more rubbish while trying to praise the place/peel :yuk: "same old same old" :ugh:...
having said that, one thing positive from the place this year..
1) got rid of the parachute characters/Micro lights.. who in my opinion, 'should never have been here in the first place :='.. "this is an airport not an airfield".. so for me a step in the rite direction :D..
but as for surprises.. hopefully peel "will do one".. or step up and make a go of it instead just filling us full of :mad:, but I'm sure we'll be in the same state next year, with no more flights and the pax numbers still dropping..




so as you say H&W "keep the faith!" :rolleyes:

[No-More-Bullschit]

The last couple of posts made me seek out these seemingly famous annual reviews, certainly last years is very well worded and certainly not pro-Peel, in fact there's one particular instance where the author quite clearly displays discontent and the first two paragraphs of the summary section are quite depressing. If as Bishop01 states the author is on here, I would ask why he can't replicate such a high quality write-up in his pprune posts, the thread would be a much happier place if he did!

Also, whilst I can see where you're coming from, in my book anyone who thinks the airport losing business of any kind is a good thing is not a full shilling.

[Bishop01]

No-More-Bullschit.... you mentioned..
"in my book anyone who thinks the airport losing business of any kind is a good thing is not a full shilling"






answer me this.. how many "Airports in the UK" with schedule jet services have parachute clubs based at them?? I've heard on several occasions now where VIP aircraft and even the KLM nearly loosing their slots because of the airport been on shut down due to the droppers being in the air..
as I've mentioned, if your running an airport 'even the likes of DTV with reduced services now' then surely their bread and butter should be the schedule services, so if anything disrupts that, 'then questions have to be asked whether the airport needs the jumpers' and if the airport cant survive without the likes of a based parachute club, then just send the rest of the pax up to Newcastle and down to Leeds and shut the terminal...


I for one am very passionate about the place and don't want to see it get any worse than it is, but you need the rite sort of business coming in that makes you money while not upsetting what core business you have left... so lets hope 2017 the place picks up...

[oldart]

I thought the 'Jumpers', as it was put, have now moved to Peterlee.

[Bishop01]

yeah they have .. i was just explaining why 'in my opinion' it was good to see the back of them..

[chaps1954]

Certainly not a good mix

Ian

[kcockayne]

No-More-Bullschit.... you mentioned..
"in my book anyone who thinks the airport losing business of any kind is a good thing is not a full shilling"






answer me this.. how many "Airports in the UK" with schedule jet services have parachute clubs based at them?? I've heard on several occasions now where VIP aircraft and even the KLM nearly loosing their slots because of the airport been on shut down due to the droppers being in the air..
as I've mentioned, if your running an airport 'even the likes of DTV with reduced services now' then surely their bread and butter should be the schedule services, so if anything disrupts that, 'then questions have to be asked whether the airport needs the jumpers' and if the airport cant survive without the likes of a based parachute club, then just send the rest of the pax up to Newcastle and down to Leeds and shut the terminal...


I for one am very passionate about the place and don't want to see it get any worse than it is, but you need the rite sort of business coming in that makes you money while not upsetting what core business you have left... so lets hope 2017 the place picks up...

Not technically in the U.K., but Jersey airport has parachute operations based there & a fairly large number of scheduled jet operations. The paras don't seem to get in the way of a/c operations.

[onion]

They jump onto the beach, aircraft gets airborne and moves away from the airfield.

[kcockayne]

True. But the beach is only a mile or so from the aerodrome. In ATC terms, not strictly separated.

[No-More-Bullschit]

Bishop01 - as kcockayne mentions Jersey qualifies, and post #1261 also applies, even if that example doesn't involve scheduled traffic.

I've heard on several occasions now where VIP aircraft and even the KLM nearly loosing their slots because of the airport been on shut down due to the droppers being in the air..
Other way round...the paradroppers were constantly having to wait / circle / abandon due to the other operators, that's why they moved to Peterlee.

[tigertanaka]

I want to support the airport as it would be a major blow to the Teesside business community if we were to lose it. The connections via AMS work well for the destinations that I generally fly to and it is so convenient to get a taxi from home at 5am, arrive at the airport at 5:15 and fly just after 6.

Anyway, I have two overseas business trips booked in for January and will probably do another 15 or so trips from MME in 2017.

[Bishop01]

Other way round...the paradroppers were constantly having to wait / circle / abandon due to the other operators, that's why they moved to Peterlee..




"and so they should!" but lets be honest here.. 'they should have never come in the first place'....:ugh:

[No-More-Bullschit]

I cannot agree with "they should have never come in the first place", these things need to be tried...but yes at the end of the day we will be better off without them.

[highwideandugly]

Great..thread up and running to its normal standards!! Well done guys!!

As always though..pity no talk about positive news,developments or a sustainable future?
Roll on 2017��

[Homo Simpson]

It may well be uncomfortable for some to accept the truth, but there are airports up and down the UK that are not needed. Not every town or city deserves one. People's livelihoods depend upon these places but you can't keep flogging a dead horse.

[Robert-Ryan]

An ignorant point of view

[N707ZS]

Must be the time in Moes bar affecting him.:}

[Homo Simpson]

Nothing ignorant about it.
People want to hang on to something for sentimental reasons not because of a real business case. It may well be that the airport can generate business from other operations but its passenger side is not looking good. Prestwick and Blackpool are two others. I don't believe anyone is demanding these close down completely but a reality check is required.

[Robert-Ryan]

I don't get why people consider Prestwick in trouble all the time? They have a sizeable Ryanair base on the passenger side, a sizeable cargo operation and the US mil are frequent users.

That said I've partially answered my own question as our Eastern flight alone will generate more income than what a Ryanair contract will for them.

[chaps1954]

Do they pay the bills though, I suspect no.
Prestwick was a vanity thing by the Scottish government which looks a very poor decision

[SWBKCB]

don't get why people consider Prestwick in trouble all the time?

Cos they don't make a profit and have to be supported by loans from the Scottish Government that they will struggle to re-pay with their current operating model.

[ATNotts]

It may well be uncomfortable for some to accept the truth, but there are airports up and down the UK that are not needed. Not every town or city deserves one. People's livelihoods depend upon these places but you can't keep flogging a dead horse.
Not in the slightest bit ignorant, just, in these days of private / profit driven ownership a hard fact of life.

To the list of non-viable commercial airports you could probably add Coventry and Humberside.

[Homo Simpson]

Prestwick is being kept alive purely for the SNP to look like they are the good guys. It's a vanity project nothing more. If it can't succeed then it should be left alone and let the bits that can work do so.
DTV with 140K passengers a year and zip cargo is failing. As a commercial airport it is simply not needed but for other types of operation then get someone in that knows what they are doing.

That is business reality. Truth is that it would be more beneficial to the area to have affordable housing and/or a business park built on it.

[Robert-Ryan]

Prestwick is being kept alive purely for the SNP to look like they are the good guys. It's a vanity project nothing more. If it can't succeed then it should be left alone and let the bits that can work do so.
DTV with 140K passengers a year and zip cargo is failing. As a commercial airport it is simply not needed but for other types of operation then get someone in that knows what they are doing.

That is business reality. Truth is that it would be more beneficial to the area to have affordable housing and/or a business park built on it.

That's a bit better...there will ALWAYS be a need for our airport and other similar ones in some way shape or form

[Homo Simpson]

With respect there will not always be a need for DTV or some others.
It may well be able to carve out some business in certain areas but as a commercial operation its as good as dead.
People and especially businesses have to be pragmatic about this.
140K per year is beyond bad.
If Peel have any business sense then turn it into housing/business park or try to specialise in non commercial aviation side of things.

[SWBKCB]

Airports such as DTVA serve a very important purpose - those 140K give them a USP over other brownfield sites, and come in very handy when trying to get planning permission out of planning authorities, etc.

[Robert-Ryan]

I disagree, DTVA still has a role to play in aviation

[SWBKCB]

I didn't say it didn't - a brownfield site with an active runway and "global connectivity" is more valuable than any old brownfield site, huge leverage in planning negotiations. There's no business sense in closing the airfield to turn it into housing/business park, unless the losses are unsustainable.

[turbroprop]

Homo does have a point.

Robert expand on DTVA roll in aviation. I see it's present future simular to Coventry. Mainly GA with a bit of commercial that does not involve self loading cargo.

But even Coventry's future is looking iffy. No room in this business for sentiment. If it does not pay then the only option is closure. Manston and Sheffield are two cases where not through lack of trying, but they could not make it pay.

[Robert-Ryan]

SWBKCB I agree 100% my comment was aimed at Homo.

Turboprop I think the KLM service is indispensable to the local economy and a strong performing route therefore enough on it's own to justify the terminal, and even if it was not, I would welcome a Biggin Hill of the north with open arms for which there is sufficient potential

[N707ZS]

On the flip side there isn't much vacant property on the airfield.

[SWBKCB]

On the flip side there isn't much vacant property on the airfield.

Do you mean property as in vacant buildings or as in land for development? Presumably the former as if the latter, the Masterplan's scuppered!

[N707ZS]

Property as in vacant buildings.

[SWBKCB]

Thought so - and talking of annual reviews...

DTVMovements (http://www.dtvmovements.co.uk/Info/2016.htm)

[N707ZS]

And that doesn't mention two of the big companies SERCO and TNT.

[SWBKCB]

SERCO is mentioned -

Very busy and continue to enjoy a worldwide reputation that is the envy of their competitors

- and as for TNT it does say...

Based soley on aircraft movements, the below reviews should not be seen as an indication of how a company is performing financially

And yes - contradictory, don't think SERCO get too many aircraft movements!

[N707ZS]

Apologies, cold bug still affecting. Would be interesting to see how many passengers SERCO generates.

[highwideandugly]

Excellent yearly review from DTV movements.

In truth though another year of uncertainty and stagnation.
The CAA figures are in disarray,however my reading is that KLM figures started off really well but have fallen away again towards the end of the year..having said that,figures for the last 3 months are missing.Eastern..big problems and not generated by DTV alone!
My guess is total passengers will be in the same area as last year..nil real growth.
Movements for all the bluster,similar,very little if any meaningful growth.
TNT and Sycamore all road freight now..not sure how much revenue that generates?

At the end of the day we come back to the housing master plan for salvation???
It's going to be a another difficult year.

[tigertanaka]

Beefer, with utmost respect, why don't you give it a rest?

Yes Peel probably got the airport on the cheap but that is not their fault, more down to the councils who sold it in the first place who at best were naiive and worst incompetent.

Perhaps someone could recommend a more appropriate forum to tittle-tattle about the Peel empire?

[highwideandugly]

Just had a look at Beafer s maps( and no,we are not the same person!) it does make a bit of sense.

However the more you look at it....no vibrant,go ahead progressive airport would have housing up to the boundary..would they?
A fire school next to expensive cargo facilities..oops..never saw that bang coming!!

I don't honestly know guys...a few on here are pretty adamant that the airport has no future
,it has but maybe on a much smaller scale? Probably no schedules but plenty of GA/Biz. With a steady inexpensive income on its way to PEEL?

Oh well into 2017,with the same concerns,doubts and hope!!!

[SWBKCB]

What market would a rail freight terminal be serving? Could GA/Biz support the infrastructure on their own?

IMHO the KLM AMS service is essential - it gives the site the "global connectivity" USP that no other site in the area has.

[highwideandugly]

I agree,without KLM, DTV. Would close within months.
I just sometimes wonder how much PEEL are paying..yes paying to keep KLM here until...the real master plan, land and housing becomes a reality!
?

[SWBKCB]

Peel have been very busy using up their land bank.
Peel Holdings - Company News Summary

The last "news" on that link is two years old?!

[N707ZS]

tigertanaka (http://www.pprune.org/members/407734-tigertanaka) some things you can flush and they go away but others just keep floating up, LBA has a similar turd!

[Robert-Ryan]

Another very good annual review on the movements website, if a little downbeat, though it is hard not to be I guess.

Beafer, a couple of observations, no.1 this is a thread for Durham Tees Valley Airport not Peel Group therefore most of your posts are off-topic and often therefore spam. Secondly, I don't believe it to be coincidence that said spam always appears after the thread takes a positive turn.

[N707ZS]

Take a look into this detectives!


Moorfield Semley and the Southside development, who caused it to go to planning inquiry lasting years thus loosing the investors, who gave the duff info about 50 jumbos a day. Possibly the outcome of this is why the councils decided to sell.


Or was the whole plan pie in the sky.

[SWBKCB]

When you look at how a large public owned airport has been gifted to a billionaire and his cronies, it does make one wonder why the original Teesside Airport sale documents haven't been revealed. Whats to hide???



Let's go over this again - from the Northern Echo 14 years ago:

On 07/01/03 it was announced that Peel Airports would be the ‘preferred bidder’ to become a Strategic Partner in the airports long-term development, with detailed negotiations taking place with the aim of finalising an agreement by March. Councillor Bob Gibson, speaking on behalf of the shareholder authorities, said they were impressed with the level of investment and expertise which the company was prepared to commit to Teesside International, coupled with the its strong track record in the transportation and property development fields. Peel will be working with the local authority shareholders to bring forward development of commercial property at the airport, including the regionally important Southside site, in addition to the operational business of the airport. Peel Airports Ltd owns Liverpool John Lennon Airport (one of the fastest growing airports in the UK) and also plans to develop a new commercial airport on the site of the former RAF Finningley, while its parent company Peel Holdings also owns the Manchester Ship Canal and the Trafford Centre shopping complex in Manchester. Under the proposals, Peel Airports will acquire a majority shareholding in the Airport, but the local authorities will retain a significant interest in the company and will be involved in its continuing development. Said Councillor Gibson “We were impressed by the high levels of interest shown by a large number of quality organisations in becoming involved in the continuing development of Teesside International. When we announced the start of the process last year we stressed we were looking for potential partners who could demonstrate they had the resources to deliver the required investment, together with experience of public/private partnerships and the workings of the airport industry. Peel Airports certainly meets all those criteria. It has an impressive track record in the development of many major projects across the North of England, including of course Liverpool John Lennon Airport which has gone from strength to strength since the company became involved with it five years ago.”

Added Councillor Ken Hall, Chairman of the Airport Board “It has been made clear to us that, if we can successfully conclude an agreement, investment in upgrading Teesside International could start virtually straight away, with a total of £20million being made available over a five year period. This will enable the Airport to provide the quality of terminal and other facilities which will attract both a much wider range of services and greatly increased passengers numbers with the prospect of reaching an annual figure of 1.5million, twice current levels, within five years. We believe the appointment of Peel Airports as a strategic partner would be in the interests of the Airport, its customers, staff and the economic future of our area.” Explained Airport Managing Director Hugh Lang “The local authorities, supported by the Airport management, began the process of securing a private sector strategic partner because we believed it was the most viable option for securing the levels of investment needed for the key projects which will enable the Airport to maximise its own potential and contribute to the regeneration of the communities its serves. Those projects and the levels of funding required were identified through a comprehensive assessment undertaken by the Airport Management, together with the regional development agency One NorthEast and external consultants. Other agencies, including the Tees Valley Partnership and Tees Valley Urban Regeneration Company, are also closely involved in supporting the Airport as a key element in the local economy.”

Robert Hough, chairman of Peel Airports, said: "Teesside International Airport has seen significant improvements, but in an increasingly competitive market for air services it is now entering an important phase in its development. We believe this proposed investment by Peel will enable its full potential to be achieved, providing greater choice to business and leisure passengers alike in a major conurbation and also bringing significant economic benefits. For Peel, it enables the group to expand in the regional airport sector, where it has achieved considerable success in recent years, particularly in the growth at Liverpool John Lennon Airport. With Liverpool in the North West and probably also Finningley in Yorkshire , the Peel Group will be able to serve the three key northern regions of England". Peter Nears, Peels strategic planning director, said: "Airports are widely recognised as drivers of economic growth and therefore maximising the regenerative benefits Teesside International Airport can bring to the local economy will be a priority. In particular, we see synergies between the services the airport provides and adjacent commercial development opportunities."

[tigertanaka]

Beefer, posts about Saudi companies and speculative questions about corporation tax do not belong on this forum.

Just to be clear I have absolutely no connection with Peel, i'm just sick of the same posts coming up over and over again, it is like a cracked record.

[N707ZS]

Good Business Sense, is that good or bad? Don't have a clue on the price of these services.


I see no answer to my question so far!

[highwideandugly]

I seem to remember over the last 20 years or so Newcastle also have produced numerous "master plans" or at least development plans and if I recall ,non of them have come to fruition? Now that is from a moderately successful airport.
DTV which was once a moderately successful airport circa Globespan days is now firmly in the doldrums with a( another) master plan on the drawing board.Therefore it's not without possibility that this also is just pie in the sky..thought up to keep the councils,locals and business community happy?

[SWBKCB]

Don't know anything about Moorfield Semley - before my time, but the dropping of these plans in 2002 seemed to be an instigator of the process to look for a professional partner to take the airport forward which led to Peel.

Newcastle produced Masterplans in 2003 and 2013

There is a Govt. expectation that airports will produce masterplans - this document states:

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http:/www.dft.gov.uk/about/strategy/whitepapers/air/pwpa/guidanceonthepreparationofai5683

The White Paper The Future of Air Transport (Cm 6046, December 2003) states:
“Airport operators are recommended to maintain a master plan document detailing development proposals. An airport master plan does not have development plan status, but the level of detail contained within it is essential to inform the content of the Local Development Framework. We will expect airport operators to produce master plans or, where appropriate, to update existing master plans to take account of the conclusions on future
development set out in this White Paper.” (paragraphs 12.7, 12.8)

[N707ZS]

Supposedly on the day of release of the Moorfield Semley plans Newcastle got a big shock.
Sure Beafer can fish some detail out, but from memory there was a large cargo ramp and a 4 bay 747 hangar.

[highwideandugly]

KLM doing fantastically well apparently...any idea why quite a lot of schedule flights being cancelled between DTV and AMS at mo??

[SWBKCB]

Isn't it normal at this time of year - holidays and weather?

[highwideandugly]

Holidays over and weather fine..cancellations over next few days too.But you are probably right?

[Robert-Ryan]

The route definitely does well so whatever the reason it's not performance related

[highwideandugly]

Interesting posts on other threads..inc.DTV movements re Kemble possibly closing....hints they could be looking elsewhere for the business..DTV anyone? Sycamore and here ... why not??
A bit of income for PEEL !!

[highwideandugly]

Don't want to spoil the KLM bandwagon...but there has been a lot of really positive news and spin,regarding the KLM increases and partnerships between the two business s....

Now I know the CAA stats are rather dubious at the moment ,but it's all we have to go on!

9 months for this year showing...minus September,November and December.

Total pax. 80737. 2015 Was 76847 same months .

Gives 14% growth...however if you bisect it all and using a very approx daily schedule of 3 (6 return)per day....gives an average increase of 2.5 pax per flight!!!!!
Now I'm not sure that KLM would be overchuffed with that....and yes we don't know fares/yields etc.

We still have 3 months to report and my gut feeling is that all three months will also be down using the DTV website and lists of cancelled flights?
It's going to be an interesting end of year figure,considering that the only other schedule route to Aberdeen has been decimated during 2016.

Time for spin guys!

[SWBKCB]

Interesting posts on other threads..inc.DTV movements re Kemble possibly closing....hints they could be looking elsewhere for the business..DTV anyone? Sycamore and here ... why not??
A bit of income for PEEL !!

Building bricks with straw here - a couple of years ago somebody who didn't own the airfield suggested building houses there and the plans were chucked out by the council.

re KLM, the number of pax is small but they seem quite happy, so must be worth it for them financially.

[Robert-Ryan]

Time for spin guys!
Seems to me you already delivered most of it!

[Robert-Ryan]

That's them moving out then!

[No-More-Bullschit]

What's the betting Peel will object...

[highwideandugly]

Realty is ,that's another big hit to revenue,along with expected police departure.wonder if PEEL will attempt to keep by offering sweeteners?

Good news is...less noise for the new house estate incumbents to complain about..result???

[Robert-Ryan]

At risk of looking like I'm clutching at straws, could it be that they will not technically leave the airport? Given the location of the new facility it would probably make sense for them to keep getting fuel from the airport and for them to use the ATC ground frequency as if they were landing or departing from the airport?

[N707ZS]

New proposed base must be on the ILS. Office block is very nice as it stands being the remnants of the Chrome works.

[Robert-Ryan]

Disregard last post, I've read the article properly and it specifically states they will leave if it goes ahead. Given they're looking to build this new headquarters regardless, they will presumably leave eventually even if this location gets turned down. :(

[highwideandugly]

Would guess any new facility would have fuel 24 hours so no need to land at airport?
Plus not really a problem with ils as could leave site low level if airport open and it had traffic?
What is more worrying is that PEEL didnt provide or have a suitable offer to keep the business?

[N707ZS]

On the up side half of hangar 3 will be available to rent and possibly that nice big cabin if they leave it behind. We shall see.

[Robert-Ryan]

The late afternoon KLM has been combined with Leeds, which would point towards an aircraft shortage being the reason for the recent cancellations

[inOban]

Or, since this is a time of year when business demand is at its lowest, that all the PAX could comfortably fit in one a/c. You will have seen the bargain tickets from Virgin trains, and Easyjet reduce many InterCity frequencies, and some airlines suspend certain routes entirely, sometimes right through to the clock change.

[N707ZS]

Looks a tad windy at Leeds.