SOUTHEND - 3 The new beginning

[tophat27dt]

we have FK70 and FK100s operating out of Luxembourg, and they are quite noisy compared to A319s.......expect some complaints when OLTexpress.de start!

[Barling Magna]

I remember LTUs Fokker F-28s roaring into SEN back in the late sixties....... now they were really noisy. Hopefully the F100 is a bit quieter than they used to be....

[Tagron]

Am I correct in thinking that the 2mppa is not a hard planning limit but the theoretical design capacity of the second stage terminal ? The planning limit is the total annual movements cap - 53500 I believe and that was thought to be compatible with 2mppa though perhaps taking into consideration a rather lower mix of A319 sized aircraft than now looks likely.

In reality to achieve a higher figure would most probably require further expansion of the terminal, ramp and car parking arrangements, hence further planning permission. Would that be obtainable? Would Stobarts want to go the route of ploughing further development money into SEN or to concentrate on maximising their returns from their existing investment ? All very hypothetical at this stage of course, but then events at SEN have been moving rather than quicker than most would have expected, including I suspect the owners when they first made their purchase.

[tophat27dt]

I can remember Braathens FK28s and LTU Caravelles!

[Expressflight]

tophat27dt

With respect I do wish you would check the figures before speculating on the noise levels of the F100.

Reference to the type noise certification figures shows the Tay 650 powered F100 to have noise levels somewhat lower than the easyJet A319 fleet, apart from the sideline measurement which is a whole 0.1 EPNdB noisier!

I believe that we may see OLT may put back the Sa departure time a little to allow better train connections from London.

[tophat27dt]

I did not mean to start riots in the streets of Leigh-on-Sea, but I was merely comparing it when I hear a KLM FK70 or 100 take off, followed by an A319. It's a different type of "roar" and to my ears noisier, but I don't want to start questioning manufacturer's figures. I must add i love flying in the FK100, it's comfortable and quiet inside.

[Phileas Fogg]

Fokker jets are lovely and quiet ... just don't sit too near to the rear 'cos there ain't no emergency exits aft of the wings.

That said I went thru a 7.9 earthquake and tsunami alert last evening ... who cares about emergency exits :)

[Expressflight]

tophat27dt

I quite agree that a 'different' type of sound can seem noisier that its actual dB level.

The problem is that if someone here uses the phrase "expect some complaints when OLTexpress.de start!", the next thing you know is that SAEN are quoting 'aviation experts' saying they expect some complaints etc.". Better to stick to the actual figures, which cannot really be disputed.

[LTNman]

Just been reading the SAEN website

Plus, television aerials will also have to go from homes in the flight path.

Some residents in the surrounding area have already received letters asking them to remove their aerials because of aviation regulations.


I knew the airport was in a built up area but not that close to houses. Maybe householders have a valid point in complaining if they have had to throw away their TV's:eek::eek:

[ericlday]

Give them cable TV as compensation ???

[mikkie4]

from germania web site. mon 3/9/12 st 2424 erfurt-SEN arrive 06.30.Tue 4/9/12 st 2424 SEN-LTN dpt 06.30.TUE 4/9/12 ST2425 LTN-Berlin TXL dpt 08.15 any one know what this is about?

[tophat27dt]

perhaps in for maintenance....same flt no and out..then a charter to Berlin from Luton? dunno....tell me tomorrow!

[Expressflight]

Mikkie4

There are two Germania 737s on terminal stands this morning so presumably both operating revenue flights from SEN today. I don't know if that helps answer your question at all.

Update Edit: One of the 737s was an inbound pax charter from Erfurt with four coaches taking the pax to their UK destination. The other operated the normal Ford charter to CGN.

[stluke]

Looks like we might be hearing something more concrete about this new route, front cover of local paper 'Echo' carrying story about flights to Germany.

[davidjohnson6]

Seems the article is dated for tomorrow, Wed 5th September !
Southend Airport to start German flights (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/9909475.Southend_Airport_to_start_German_flights/)

[tophat27dt]

and I had just kicked their ass (The Evening Echo) because they never reply to emails from the newsroom, and I wanted them to promote the new service(s) to the local people, like they are over here in Germany. Dresden is not confirmed yet by OLT.:ugh:

[vulcanised]

You will have to spoon feed them to make sure they get their facts right. Even then it's a 'maybe'.

[LTNman]

They remind me of Debonair who operated jets on thin routes. They came and they went and are now almost forgotten

[Expressflight]

Obviously OLT Express Germany are trying to effectively utilise the seven Contact Air F100s and I would think that DRS-SEN needs jet equipment if it is going to attract high yield business travellers. SCN-SEN could probably be equally well served by a 50-seater such as the Saab 2000, but the F100 will be again be more attractive to potential passengers.

It will certainly be interesting to see how it goes and the short marketing period before launch might mean a rather slow start. I cannot currently find an English language reservation facility for the SCN-SEN route on their website and that needs to be provided.

[Tagron]

LTNman may have a point about jets on thin routes but the comparison with Debonair looks a bit stretched. OLT after all have been in business since 1958. Its present owners formerly owned VLM so they are not exactly inexperienced in this line of operations . Even so their plans all look somewhat ambitious at present.

In addition to an English language page on the website one would have thought a French page would be essential taking into consideration the likely SCN catchment area.

[Barling Magna]

I'm not sure about the Debonair comparison. Didn't Debonair try to provide a full cabin service at a budget fare, using thirsty 146s? Are OLT Express trying to do the same? Debonair were in competition with EZY on some routes from LTN weren't they? Did they go bust, or were they taken over.....?

Fokker 100s should be more economical than the 146s, but I'll be surprised if they can fill them. On the otherhand maybe the good burghers of Saarbrucken are keen to visit London in great numbers, or perhaps they are keen to view the longest pleasure pier in the world...........

[smallpilot]

There is also a large Ford Factory ar Saarlouis, that will generate some traffic with Ford people that travel to/from the UK side.

[Andy_S]

It won't generate THAT much.......

[Expressflight]

The DRS-SEN route is now bookable on the OLT Express Germany website at 49 Euros one-way. They tell me that they will soon have an English website, the current one being only in German.

[tophat27dt]

I am pleased to see that there will be daily flights Dresden-SEN-Dresden. Weekdays ARR SEN 1045, dep 1115, Saturdays ARR SEN 0720, dep 0750, and Sundays ARR SEN 1420, dep 1450. Good luck to everybody.

[tophat27dt]

start date 15th OCTOBER.

[davidjohnson6]

Does anyone know the minimum airport check-in time for OLT flights from Southend ?
Yes, I know that OLT offers online check-in, but it's not unknown when an airline starts operating at a new airport, that online check-in has a few glitches requiring manual check-in at an airport counter.
Yes, they may be the Germans with their famous efficiency, but if they can screw up on Berlin's new airport...

[tophat27dt]

Their website does not say the check-in times criteria, but safe to say 45 minutes would be the normal.

[fatmed]

Easyjet summer 2013 flights on the booking system. no surprises as yet. similar timetable Bcn not operating on Wednesday to make way for Vienna flight. jersey looks 3 x weekly next summer.

[Phileas Fogg]

I would have thought that such a route would need to be operated twice daily, morning and evening, to attract the appropriate clientel.

Dresden ... Not heard of that as being a particular tourist attraction nor red light hotspot, perhaps a F100 size business route but, I would have thought, needs morning and evening services to establish that.

[davidjohnson6]

For 2 centuries, Dresden was known as "Florence on the Elbe", the Elbe being the local river
Then in 1945, we made a really good job of trashing it. The Soviet Union took over for 44 years, travel there became difficult and the communists took their own political standpoint over restoration of the city. Finally in 1990, the locals began a major effort to restore the old city - they finished the job a few years ago
It's a city for culture vultures - not really a place for stag dos and hen parties hoping for cheap booze and other forms of vice.

Went there last month - was surprised at how little English was being spoken by tourists on the streets, but strongly recommended

[Phileas Fogg]

And Essex is reknowned for, quote, "Culture Vultures"? :)

[tws123]

Easyjet summer 2013 flights on the booking system. no surprises as yet. similar timetable Bcn not operating on Wednesday to make way for Vienna flight. jersey looks 3 x weekly next summer.

I think you mean Venice ;)

[davidjohnson6]

I've been having a dig through the low fare calendar for the SEN-SCN and SEN-DRS routes. I note that for every day a flight operates from October to March, fares are available for 49 euros on each route in either direction.
I realise that SEN-SCN doesn't start for almost 4 weeks, while the SEN-DRS doesn't start for 6 weeks, but I'm still a little concerned for 2 reasons:
1 - Could someone reassure me that as the dates of the flights approaches, fares will definitely go up ?
2 - Why is there no apparent differentiation in price for flights between different dates, even around dates (e.g. just before Xmas) when demand is likely to be higher ? I know there is no past data, but a bit of intelligent guesswork should be possible here...

It's not that I have a secret desire to pay lots of my cash to an airline, just that I want to know OLT Express has a good grip on revenue management, has a decent chance of not losing a fortune, and that the routes have a fair chance of long term survival.

[LTNman]

Might be sound advice to pay at least £100, pay by credit card, go sooner rather than later and don't book any accommodation until the night before travel.

[Expressflight]

As far as SCN-SEN is concerned, having a basic entry fare of 49 euros available for all dates is probably as good a way as any of gauging demand. Profit/loss for the first few months is less important than ensuring that you get a transfer of pax onto the route from those who currently use other departure points to London. It should also help identify the strength or otherwise of the potential for leisure traffic and the weighting for each day of operation with a view to schedule adjustments as appropriate.

With DRS-LON being only a recently vacated route it might have been expected that there would be more variable fares from day one. I'm not aware of what the fare levels were when bmi/LH operated DRS-LHR until March this year.

One would expect Panta to have budgeted for losing a reasonable amount of money on their new OLT routes with the initial aim being to establish a good client base. I would assume they have the resources as well as "a good grip on revenue management" in view of their previous industry experience.

[sxflyer]

Air Berlin used to have the same 'lowest fare' available across every route when they went on sale, no matter what time, day of the week, distance or time of year. Maybe it's a German thing.

[davidjohnson6]

I keep looking at OLT Express' new routes from Southend and am growing a little puzzled.

The Saarbrucken route begins on 2nd October - i.e. 19 days time

A Google for the airline name still throws up plenty of links on the first page to the bankrupt Polish namesake and related negative press articles
The airline still does not have an English language website
Southend airport's website has no mention that OLT even will serve Southend, never mind publicising their existence - I find this astonishing.
Dresden airport's website makes good mention of OLT's new routes, but OLT on Saarbrucken's website is very low profile.
The flights do not appear to be listed on any GDS or major retail flight booking websites.

Has anyone seen any marketing by the airline in the UK (apart from an article in the Southend Echo) to start sales going ? There seems to have been some noise in the German media, but very little in the UK apart from aviation trade press.

Alternatively, are the flights aimed pretty much entirely at Germans wanting to come to London ?

[Expressflight]

I would guess that SEN don't want to promote the routes until there is an English reservations system in place on the airline's website to avoid getting things thrown back at them when people try to book on the German language system.

Probably German originating traffic will predominate on those two routes, at least initially, but the airline has told me that an English language reservation system will be in place "soon". I told them that I wanted to book for October on the SCN route (which I do) but that I wouldn't be doing so until that was in place.

[Barling Magna]

On another forum a poster has said:

More definite (sort of) news about OLT Express. I imagine everyone has seen this reply from SEN to a Facebook query today:

"London Southend: We are currently in discussions with OLT Express GERMANY about flying out of London Southend Airport. Once all the plans have been finalised we will be able to provide further information about the service via. our website ."



So I guess there is real substance to this, and I imagine it is aimed at Germans flying to London rather than Brits flying to Saarbrucken - unless they have a Ford connection I suppose.

[Expressflight]

It's more than a case of "real substance", because SCN and DRS are announced, on-sale routes.

[davidjohnson6]

Spoke to PR today at Southend. The stated reason for a non-committal response on OLT Express is that while talks are in progress and likely that service to Saarbrucken and Dresden would come to fruition, no contract has been signed yet between airline and airport, so the airport are reluctant to make any definitive noise to the public at this stage.

While plausible, I have no idea if this stated contract status is true or not...

[LTNman]

Might well be the case that they are talking to more airports than just Southend and Southend is the lever to get a good deal elsewhere.

The airline will have to weigh up the probable free landing fees Southend might offer against lost passengers because they are using Southend against a more recognized London airport.

[Barling Magna]

Luton was certainly listed on the German website initially, but it has changed to Southend since and Southend features in several articles in the German media. Flying time to SEN would be less than to LTN and I'm not sure that many passengers will be put off because they've never heard of an airport if it's called "London". They'll be comforted by the direct train service.

[Expressflight]

I think you will find that the deal is signed between the airline and SEN.

[davidjohnson6]

Express - if fliggts are on sale I would imagine a contract has been signed. It puzzles me though that the PR bod(s) are under the impression that it has not and they are acting and advising the public on the basis of no contract being signed.

[Expressflight]

Nothing about the way PR people act surprises me anymore - and I don't mean specifically at SEN. They only tell you something based upon the last update from their commercial people and add their own spin. They are not always totally up to speed on the current commercial situation and are often using a 'script' that's a bit out of date.

[stluke]

Would i be right in saying that the latest figures for August will be out today?

[TSR2]

Yes, they should be published later today.

[irishlad06]

what up with this mornings BFS rotation its nearly 5 hours delayed

[maliyahsdad2]

90962 passengers last month. 382180 rolling 12months.

[Expressflight]

Irishlad106

One aircraft tech first thing and no replacement readily available apparently.

maliyahsdad2

Excellent headline figure - haven't had time to check the individual routes yet.

[tws123]

Amsterdam 13131
belfast 14778
dublin 4762
waterford 3946
jersey 7038
alicante 9329
malaga 8985
barcelona 9050
faro 10224
ibiza 3844
palma 5268
cologne 166

[stluke]

Really impressed with the August figures every Easyjet route has seen a increase in pax numbers and load factors compared to July, Belfast up a further 1,500 and thats a non sun route.

The two Irish routes are down slightly and seem to be struggling to gain traction which is a bit disappointing.

My error I had Waterford down as 3,046 should be 3,946 which makes a big difference.

[Barling Magna]

My go at calculating Load Factors:

2012 August Amsterdam 13131 74% Faro 10224 94% Belfast 14778 82% Alicante 9329 96% Barcelona 9050 94% Malaga 8985 96% Palma 5268 94% Dublin 4762 53% Jersey 7038 72% Waterford 3946 70% Ibiza 3844 93% Istanbul 0 Cologne 166
Waterford is increasing, but the Dublin figures are the only one showing a decrease, which I find strange; maybe it is the Olympics scaring people off....?

[LTNman]

Worth remembering those great loads are because Easyjet has kept Southend fares well below other London airports.

[Barling Magna]

I'm not sure that's entirely true. I've just checked the fare from SEN, LTN and LGW to Faro for a week in October and they are nearly the same. Outbound from SEN was cheapest, while inbound to LGW was cheapest. For flights to Malaga int he same week SEN is the most expensive both outbound and inbound; LGW is the cheapest outbound and LTN the cheapest inbound.

[Expressflight]

LTNman

I'm afraid you're deluding yourself again.

The AMS and BFS routes are the only ones which are normally, but not always, lower than for the other London airports. All other routes are consistently similar to LTN and STN, with SEN's often being the highest.

It must be obvious to you that easyJet use lower fares at all their new bases initially to stimulate growth and to draw attention to their new offering. AMS and LTN will have a large business traffic element and that market is notoriously conservative so lower SEN fares serve as an incentive to try the new base. From the look of August's figures they seem to have been very successful in doing just that.

With reference to your earlier post concerning OLT Express Germany, I'm afraid you're whistling in the wind again. As for your comment about " a more recognized London airport (than SEN)", that situation is changing fast.

[Barling Magna]

It certainly seems that the EZY flights from SEN are succeeding. Maybe there was a small boost from visitors to the Olympics in August? It will be interesting to view the September and October figures to see if they can maintain a high level (although not so high as August, of course). If OLT Express attract reasonable figures the word about SEN as a London terminal will get around and maybe EZY could start to operate to Germany.....

[Expressflight]

I get the feeling that the Olympics had a overall negative impact on the DUB-LON routes.

Scheduled pax figures for all LON airports combined were down 4% compared to August last year, while one would have expected a substantial increase in inbound traffic during the Games. Perhaps outbound numbers reduced by an even greater number during that period.

For completeness, the figures are STN -19%, LTN -16%, LCY -11%,
LGW - 2%, with LHR showing the only increase of + 6%.

[JTSB]

Excellent numbers again which I can only see increasing. It does beg the question "why haven't they ploughed ahead with the terminal extension" though. It is badly needed, both to ease the current morning congestion and to sell the airport to more airlines.

[maliyahsdad2]

They have only had planning permission for a few months, also they would not want to start building during the first summer of major operations for at least 2 decades, with all the disruption that goes with it. Better to get the good name for service first then start building during the quieter period.

[GAZMO]

Coming from N.I. I have to say that I am very impressed with the EZY service to SEN. First month 8.5 pax rising steadily to 14K in August. Once passenger use SEN they will be impressed. On last trip to SEN plane was on stand at 9.45 and I was on the train at 9.55. SEN now my favourite London airport. Maybe a third daily flight?

[Barling Magna]

That's exactly what SEN is aiming for, GAZMO. Swift progress through the terminal to the train means that SEN can be the closest airport to London in terms of time distance (LCY excepted). SEN just needs to strive to achieve this throughout the day.

I agree with maliyahsdad2 that it would be unwise to start the building works now; better to wait until October.

[LTNman]

I thought the expansion of the terminal was already underway. So why would expanding the terminal be better if left for a while as extensions to terminals take more than a few months to complete so would then impact on next year’s passengers when the terminal could have already been finished.

Small is beautiful and efficient but all airports want more and more passengers as they don’t really want to be a small airport but a big airport. No doubt the supporters here will look for constant growth and will be disappointed if it flattens out. Then, as what happened at Luton, the car hire car park which was a short walk from the terminal becomes a bus ride way. The long term car park which again was just a 1 minutes walk becomes a bus ride away to the other side of the airport and then the advantages of being small will be quietly forgotten.

Small won’t be so good when the fog comes down and Southend’s CAT 1 ILS is not up to the task. In my younger days I used to listen to my air band radio on foggy evenings hoping that the fog would stay away for just one more hour, then that was it, as the airport was shut down for what seemed like forever but was normally mid-morning the next day.

No doubt someone will reply that Southend is hardly affected by fog but it will be and then the advantages of using Southend will be forgotten by those passengers caught up in the chaos of a terminal that is bursting at the seams.

[Barling Magna]

Yes, I remember listening to my air band radio as the fog developed across London, but rarely at Southend, so SEN received some interesting diversions from STN, LGW, LTN and even LHR - mainly Viscounts and Britannias, but also Convairs and DC-6s among others.

I anticipate that there will be some A319s, Avro RJs and E-jets diverting into SEN this winter since Southend really is rarely affected by fog or snow. However, no doubt there will be times when the terminal is bursting at the seams due to weather or ATC delays or whatever, but SEN's staff have a reputation for calmness and politeness so I'm sure they will cope admirably.

[smallpilot]

LTN MAN, who knows maybe you'll be diverted into SEN sometime and see what all the other converts are impressed about.
I dont think anyone from your airport is in a position to make disparaging remarks about another... hopeless road access, usually have to walk from the unmade carpark to the terminal as no sign of a transfer bus, that ridiculous fee just to drop someone outside the terminal, the endless security queues, then trying to make people pay more to go to the front, I could go on. Your airport is a dump, the least pax friendly experience of any London area airport. Suggest you look closer to home before you expend all that energy on 'dissing' other airports.

[GAZMO]

Having used all four London airports for travelling to and from Belfast with EZY I would have to rate SEN as number one, closely followed by STN and LGW. I am afraid Luton is my leased favoured airport. Sorry if I cause and offence it just my view as a NI passenger

[mikkie4]

WELL SAID GAZMO/SMALLPILOT

[LTNman]

Smallpilot wrote

hopeless road access, usually have to walk from the unmade carpark to the terminal as no sign of a transfer bus, that ridiculous fee just to drop someone outside the terminal, the endless security queues, then trying to make people pay more to go to the front, I could go on. Your airport is a dump, the least pax friendly experience of any London area airport. Suggest you look closer to home before you expend all that energy on 'dissing' other airports.

Was your post supposed to make me angry, was it a post of spiteful revenge? Just for your information I don’t have an airport. You will find that the Luton thread has maturity that is lacking here and that its greatest supporters on PPRune are also its greatest critics. You might be surprised but I agree with everything you say except the terminal isn’t a dump but it is just too popular at peak times, which is only around 2 hours a day. Anyway this is a Southend thread and not a Luton thread so post your anti-Luton comments there where they can be debated and where I can agree with most of what you say.:ok:

Maybe this thread should be renamed “Southend through rose tinted glasses” where nothing needs improving and if it does no one must mention it because it will be viewed as being anti Southend by the usual suspects who take it upon themselves to hurl insults as a way to make themselves feel better because they don’t like hearing the truth.:yuk:

Southend is here and it will stay and according to many has a great passenger experience, which will get even better but eventually the long term car park will become the short term car park and a new long term car park will be built on the other side of the airport just as it has at Luton. The “ridiculous fee” for dropping someone off will be coming to Southend soon just as it is coming to Stansted in October. No doubt when it arrives you will be saying what a good idea it is as it helps to provide more investment or more profit depending on your view point.

Finally if anyone disagrees with the way I see things then have your say and put me right. This is what makes PPRune a great place to be. What lets PPRune down a little is that some people take comments about Southend personally and see posts as though someone was insulting their wife. .:=

Remember it’s not life and death it is just an airport and nothing else.:confused:

[LTNman]

Barling Magna wrote

Yes, I remember listening to my air band radio as the fog developed across London, but rarely at Southend, so SEN received some interesting diversions from STN, LGW, LTN and even LHR - mainly Viscounts and Britannias, but also Convairs and DC-6s among others.


They were indeed interesting times, it was all a matter of timing. If the other airports got the fog first then some rare visitors could be seen.

I anticipate that there will be some A319s, Avro RJs and E-jets diverting into SEN this winter since Southend really is rarely affected by fog or snow. However, no doubt there will be times when the terminal is bursting at the seams due to weather or ATC delays or whatever, but SEN's staff have a reputation for calmness and politeness so I'm sure they will cope admirably.

Southend should do well from London City and plus the odd easyjet movement but I would have thought that would be it in all honesty.

[Barling Magna]

Well, we will see. Blue Islands are operating their JER-LCY-JER schedule via SEN at the moment because their 'new' ATR isn't cleared for LCY.

Who knows, SEN might even get some of LTN's Wizz Air diversions if STN is closed......? :)

Although I was too young to appreciate it, my brother used to talk about Christmas Eve 1958 when every airport except SEN was socked in. Over FIFTY airliners crowded into SEN including L749 Constellations, DC-6s, Vikings; it must have been bursting at the seams that day.....

[Ernest Lanc's]

Christmas Eve 1958 was thick with fog in the London and Southern areas.

A Bristol Britannia 312 operated by BOAC crashed near Dorset killing 2 of the 5 crew and all 7 passengers.
I also was very young at the time...I just googled as something in the 50's was at the back of my mind, reading your post.

On 24 December 1958, much of the south of England was covered in thick fog
making travel by any means hazardous. Many aircraft had to be diverted as visibility (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visibility)
was below the minimum permissible distance at most of the airports on the south
coast. To a pilot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_pilot)
who was less than aware of the conditions on the ground and the altitude at
which they were flying, this fog would have an appearance very similar to normal
cloud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_cover)
cover
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_cover). For the pilots of G-AOVD this may have added to the illusion that
they were at a much higher altitude and that they were reading the instruments
correctly.
1958 Bristol Britannia 312 crash - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_Bristol_Britannia_312_crash)

To go back on topic(ish)..How did SEN at that time play host to 50 a/c?.

[Barling Magna]

Good question. I've had a surf through the internet and discovered this from an article by Leslie Hunt in a 1967 edition of The Essex Couyntryside magazine:

Then on the morning of Christmas Eve 1958, as fog rolled across England, both Heathrow and Gatwick airports ceased accepting incoming airliners. Until this moment Southend had not been regarded as a major diversion base by the international operators, but within a short space of time more than fifty airliners, ranging from Viscounts to DC6As and Constellation 749As, were most efficiently landed and the airport was well and truly on the world aviation map.

[Barling Magna]

Here's another, more detailed recollection. I hadn't realised that a Pan Am 707 had diverted into Southend as well:

On Christmas Eve 1958, the day was sunny with haze; London and Manchester and most of the south of England was in fog. At about 10am, Southend ATC was advised by Southern Air Traffic Control Centre at Heathrow to standby for possible diversions. At 10.30 am, they were advised that two Lufthansa Viscount 400s were leaving airways at Matching for diversion to Southend. Hardly had this occurred than a KLM Super Constellation, which had heard that Southend was open, also announced it was diverting. From then on, Southend was announced by London Volmet ( The Meteorological Service) as being the only airport open - Runway 06 in use.

As it was a holiday for me, I was over at the airport planning to go flying. At around mid-morning, Bernard Collins, the Airport Commandant, came across to the School and asked if we could help by being baggage-handlers, as it was obvious to him that the small number of staff would be overwhelmed by this unplanned influx of passengers. One problem, as the number of flight arrivals built up, was the lack of aircraft steps. Apart from Viscounts, most aircraft of that era did not have integral steps. Most of the arrivals in the afternoon needed our steps - DC4s, DC6s, Constellations and Vikings. Later on it was 80% Viscounts of BEA, Hunting-Clan and Eagle( from Blackbushe), and the problem over the steps eased.

As the sky darkened, one could see, circling over Southend, to the north, east, and south, the winking lights of aircraft waiting their turn to land. By now SATCC had established an airway leading to Southend; this helped speed up the landing rate and the job of the Southend controllers.

Although one might have imagined that the congestion in the passenger halls was leading to frayed nerves, it was remarkable composed. Bernard Collins made an announcement apologising for the congestion, pointing out that Southend did not normally handle this amount of traffic. In general, people were fairly good humoured as they waited their turn to be put on a stream of coaches that were ferrying them up to London. At one point, Paul Robeson, the singer, who had arrived from Paris, entertained passengers with an impromptu rendering in the Arrivals lounge (his rendering since been painted over- Sec) By 10pm, most people were away for their Christmas; most of them were only too glad to have made it into the UK at all, because of the fog.

On Christmas day, at SATCC's special request, Southend Airport remained open (although scheduled to close for the holiday) And further diversions were accepted. The final arrival was a Pan Am Boeing 707 from New York, which, because the airfield was filled with aircraft, had to be left on the main runway. Just as this aircraft had landed, the fog, which had blanketed the southern part of England, finally closed in. By this time, Southend had done its job; everyone was home for Christmas, and the Airport staff could now celebrate Christmas with the warm glow of doing an unbelievable job. The Municipal Airport had handled all Southern England's Air Traffic arrivals, as well as departures. For this service, Southend ATC won the Guild of Air Traffic Controller's Award for 1958. - John Brown.

[LTNman]

Wow what an interesting few posts. It must have been a fantastic few hours for the airport with all those classic aircraft.

Can't get excited about 319 or 320's no matter how many turn up and I don't think anyone will be writing about them in 50 years time either.

[welkyboy]

I was there but as far as I recollect I don't think that a PanAm 707 landed, it certainly wasn't there Christmas morning, most of the overseas visitors turned round and went back home but the BEA Viscounts stayed parked on 33 and the eastern taxiway, the problem was that there was only one tug and ground power unit until some more were brought by road from Heathrow.
I was in Belfairs woods when the first arrivals came in about 1100, we jumped on our bikes and hot footed it to the church wall where we used to meet to collect registrations!!

[tophat27dt]

I must admit I don't remember seeing anything on the movement sheets about a B707 diverting in! When I left high school, I worked in the airport office for 18 months until I joined ATC in Flight Briefing. All the old movement logs were kept in storerooms over in the old wooden customs "sheds" and I spent many an hour of my free-time piling through the movements. Unless my brain is like a walnut, I dont remember the B707...oh well, I was only 9 years old that Christmas and had no interest in Aeroplanes until I was 11 (at high school).
I often wonder how we coped in ATC in those days when the weather was bad. I too helped Stevie Joel in BAF unload a Donaldson Britannia from Paris with 200 or so bags!

[tophat27dt]

At last, I see that the OLTexpress.de website and reservations can be translated easily into English by clicking the tool bar at the top, a button now provided by the webmaster. I will certainly use this service from Saarbrucken to SEN, when the dates and prices suit me. I normally use LCY, but it's getting a bit expensive for short visits home to the family in Southend. I am still a bit concerned about their two early morning Saturday departures with regards to the London train timetables. Admittedly the EasyJet pax seem to handle it okay, but I guess not so many come down from London? Can't remember, but have Stobart officially announced OLT are coming or not? They badly need some publicity locally. Plenty of it here in Germany and Luxembourg, but not in the UK.

[tophat27dt]

What was you doing in Belfairs Woods? LOL

[frostbite]

Thanks for those interesting posts about the 'big fog'.

It was the year before my family moved to the area, and three years before I went to work at SEN.

[LTNman]

I get criticized by smallpilot on the previous page for dare mentioning the F word (fog) and actually it has resulted in a chain of the most interesting posts I have read for a long while so I make no apology to him or anyone else.

[LN-KGL]

I would say Southend Airport is an almost perfect small airport - very fast check in and the same can be said for the security check. It is now almost one week ago that I tested the airport with an early morning flight to Amsterdam. From having parked the rental car in its designated parking area to having reached the departure hall, it took only 10 minutes. No fuzz and only smiles all the way. We were pushed 5 minutes before schedule and after a few more minutes we were rolling down runway 24. Then came the more interesting part of the flight - after take off a 180 turn to the right and a low level flight with a great view over the Foulness Island out to the right. This low level flight continues for 5-6 minutes and by then we were inside the white cotton clouds.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23931688/Aircraft/600/Easy_at_SEN.jpg

[Lord Gumboil Jnr.]

I can say without a shadow of a doubt, that there was definitely no Pan American Boeing 707 diversion over the best Christmas Southend ever had. Furthermore, I believe that the KLM Constellation was a 749 and not a 1049.
There was a story that the last diversion of the evening of the 24th was a Viscount 700 of BEA. It was told that it had been trying to divert everywhere and in fact went down to Jersey, which (no surprise) was fogged out and just got into Southend very low on fuel. After all the 'excitment' BEA permantly based a power truck at SEN and possibly a set of steps!

[Barling Magna]

According to one source on the internet, this was what followed the great fog:

As a result, British European Airways (BEA) the state airline - each autumn would station some ground-handling equipment and staff at Southend from the end of September until early March. This avoided the need to bring staff down to Southend should an aircraft divert, thereby reducing delays because of the two-hour drive from London Airport. In turn, BEA staff could handle other airlines so diverted, such as Lufthansa, KLM and Air France, who had nominated Southend as their number one diversion. It should be remembered that, at this time, Stansted was a remote, charter-only airfield, Luton was a grass airstrip and Gatwick had a poor weather record. Passengers landing at Southend could be in Central London within one hour.

[welkyboy]

The BEA engineer had his "office" next to the tower with the equipment stored outside, his name was"Tug" Wilson, spent most of his time in the Briefing office under the tower drinking tea with us

[Andy_S]

....after take off a 180 turn to the right....

I'd quite like to have seen that.......:E

[davidjohnson6]

tophat - I agree that website Flights within Europe - Flight offers - Book flights online (http://gds.oltexpress.de/index.php?id=8&L=1) now has an English language version, but the airline has 2 public facing websites - which site you use seems to depend on the route you want to book.
The website which allows for booking to/from Southend, OLT Express GMBH - bei OLT Express jeder Tarif kann online gebucht werden. (http://oltexpress.partners.de/) alas does not (yet) have an English-language feature

OLT flights from Southend seem to begin 2 weeks from today

[asdf1234]

I've heard that the SEN FBO is now locked up and only opens if and when an aircraft turns up. I also understand that Landmark have gone and the running of the FBO is back with Stobarts.

I suspect this is because they had zero movements through the FBO over the Olympic period and hence the business and private aviation world is still blisfully unaware of the "world class FBO" that exists there.

[maliyahsdad2]

Zero is incorrect, I saw them put the welcome mat out on a couple of occasions.

[tophat27dt]

Stobarts SEN replied to my query as to why the new Gwerman routes are not advertised in UK yet, and the answer was that they are still in discussions with the airline. I find that a bit worrying if the schedules are due to start in a matter of weeks, and people are already buying tickets.

[LN-KGL]

It isn't the first time an airline has sold tickets for routes where they don't have landing slots, no handling agreement, no overflying rights, ... the list is long of what you need to have ready before the first flight. It is also not any advantage to have the OLT Express in their name with its Polish version going bankrupt. I guess Stobart is thinking about it, as they can end up with unpaid bills.

[vulcanised]

The whole approach from OLT has been odd, to say the least.

I think Stobart are wise to exercise caution over this airline, which seems to be operated on an ad hoc basis.

[Barling Magna]

Some news on the terminal extension from the latest Consultative Group Minutes (May):
If formally approved, the aim was to commence construction before the end of the year.
The extension would not, of itself, bring increased passengers but would ensure that customer service standards would be maintained as passenger numbers grew and it would provide for more base aircraft. The extended terminal would be slightly smaller than the Southampton Airport terminal building.

[fjencl]

Any news of any new routes for easyJet from southend.

[davidjohnson6]

OLT Express have confirmed that for the new route Southend-Saarbrucken, due to low demand:
- First flight will be on 20th October and not 2nd October
- Last flight will be on 3rd November, after which the route is cancelled

OLT Express also state that the Southend-Dresden route is unaffected, with flights beginning on 15th October

[Barling Magna]

Ha! Well, that's not giving the route much of a chance, is it? Especially since it hasn't been agreed by the airport authority yet, nor advertised in the UK, nor is it easily bookable..... Very amateurish.....:hmm:

[tophat27dt]

I had a feeling OLT would not continue with the Saarbrucken route, at least October was a bad start up time. It's a "good way" to test the waters, it seems, by setting up your proposed schedules and start to sell the seats, watching how they go. But the public are a bit more astute these days and don't like to risk it until the flights are officially confirmed and advertised in a normal manner. Pity they haven't got 50-seat aircraft which may have stood a better chance because Saarbrucken area has not had a direct London service for more than 30 years.
I think Stobarts are relying on Easyjet to increase their destinations in 2014.

[LTNman]

Never a good idea to put all your eggs in one basket

[Barling Magna]

True; Coventry and Manston provide clear examples of this. It's vital that EZY have a successful winter season from SEN - I see no reason why they should not do so.

However, I think SEN will attract more operators in the fullness of time. Stobart are wise to ensure that any such operator proposes viable services. Dresden may work, but Saarbrucken was always going to struggle.

[Red Four]

I hear that a well deserved award picked up at ERA in Dublin tonight.:ok:

[Barling Magna]

In Alastair Welch's acceptance speech is the following:

We are looking forward to more routes being available from October, with the airport well on course to reach its target of 2 million passengers per year by 2020.

Presumably the new routes he refers to are the OLT Express routes to Dresden and Saarbrucken, although it would be nice to think that other announcements were soon to be made.....

[willy wombat]

I was at the awards dinner in Dublin and I don't think Alastair actually made an acceptance speech. Well deserved win for Southend however.

[Barling Magna]

OK, thanks. I'd assumed that from the details on the SEN website, but reading it again I can see that was simply an inference. Here's the full information:

On announcing London Southend as the winner, the Chairman of the Judging Panel said “In spite of its limited traffic volume this airport is making a massive effort to become attractive for passengers and airlines. The delivery of five major infrastructure projects in the same year is an outstanding achievement. They present themselves as a compact airport with dedicated customer commitments. The airport’s ability to transform plans to practical results is impressive. In a tough financial environment Southend was able to realize its ambitious plans to create a modern infrastructure, centred on the needs of its work force as well as the passengers and with a high focus on social and environmental considerations. The service orientation of the compact facilities together with the creation of optimum processes will make Southend a jewel in London’s gateway.” London Southend Airport Managing Director Alastair Welch says “We are delighted to have been given this award for the second time in three years – it is a very large vote of confidence from Europe’s largest and most respected airline association. The whole team at London Southend has worked incredibly hard to bring all the new facilities at the airport on line and to meet our customer service commitment of 4 minutes through security and 15 minutes from exiting plane to train (with hand baggage). We are looking forward to more routes being available from October, with the airport well on course to reach its target of 2 million passengers per year by 2020. We’d also like to thank our partners at easyJet and Aer Lingus for the part they are playing in making the airport a jewel in London’s gateway.”

[mikkie4]

Sovereign luxury travel(Majorca/algarve)& citalia(venice) offering 5* family holidays from SEN,another feather in southends cap.word must be getting around that SEN is the place to be.

[davidjohnson6]

mikkie - are Sovereign and Citalia just packaging an easyjet flight to Palma / Faro / Venice with their own stock of accommodation and calling it a family holiday, or is it something more than that ?

Both Citalia and Sovereign are owned by TUI Group, so apart from the branding (compared to 'Thomson', Citalia sounds so much better at flogging flights + 7 nights in a B&B in Italy), it's not much different to booking with a branch of Thomson on the High Street.

If Thomas Cook are prepared to put 80,000 customers on Easyjet flights in 2013, why not other agents ? No magic about Southend - it's just an Easyjet flight and for system purposes is no different from Bristol or Glasgow

[Expressflight]

Numerous LCY diversions piling into SEN at present, due low cloudbase at LCY. Funny that they should divert to, what was it now?, "a field on the East coast" as the LCY management claimed it to be.

It'll be interesting to see how the new terminal copes with the influx, today being the first time since it opened that LCY traffic has visited in any numbers.

[Ernest Lanc's]

Sovereign luxury travel(Majorca/algarve)& citalia(venice) offering 5* family holidays from SEN


Example: Sovereign luxury travel(Majorca) - 26 Oct 12 - 02 Nov 12

Hotel Illa d'Or. Provided by Sovereign luxury travel.

Aircraft....EasyJet 7423 OB and EasyJet 7424 IB.

[Barling Magna]

It will indeed be interesting to see how the terminal copes. At the moment (0944) two EZY's are approaching and a BA E190 has just touched down to add to the earlier diversions........ it must be pretty crowded there....

No L749 Constellations this time though.....

[LTNman]

Numerous LCY diversions piling into SEN at present, due low cloudbase at LCY. Funny that they should divert to, what was it now?, "a field on the East coast" as the LCY management claimed it to be.

The problem is that I guess many of the passengers who should have landed in the City will be thinking that they have indeed landed at a field on the East Coast.

Are the passengers being kept on board?

Nothing is showing on the Southend arrivals board and only 2 diverts showing on the London City arrivals board. So how many diverts have landed?

[serko]

but will be impressed with the train service into Liverpool Street/ Stratford for connection to cananry wharf.

[Barling Magna]

As opposed to landing on an old dock..... and no Khe Sanh approach needed either. Luxury!

[Expressflight]

LTNman

Do try to keep up. The LYC arrivals board showed 11 diversions when I last looked of which I believe 4 have gone to SEN so far: 2 x F50, 1 x RJ85 and 1 x E190. Of the other 7 one was the BA New York which always has LGW as preferred diversion and there were also Luxair, Swiss and LH flights which use STN I believe. With the wx still marginal at LCY I would suspect the pax will be bussed(?) to SEN unless the outbounds are cx of course.

[LTNman]

LTNman

Do try to keep up

No need to be rude:=

You will have to give me a link then. i am using the London City site at London City Airport :: London City Airport :: Live Flight Info :: Arrivals & Departures (http://www.londoncityairport.com/travelandbooking/arrivals?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1) which still shows only 2 diverts

but will be impressed with the train service into Liverpool Street/ Stratford for connection to cananry wharf.

Doesn't seem that quick to me. Journey times to Canary Wharf

13 minutes London City
48 minutes Gatwick
1 hour 5 minutes Heathrow 123
1 hour 11 minutes Heathrow 5
1 hour 12 minutes Heathrow 4
1 hour 12 minutes Southend
1 hour 17 minutes Luton terminal
1 hour 19 minutes Stansted

[LTNman]

I would suspect the pax will be bussed(?) to SEN

Does the airport have a dedicated coach park outside the terminal? If not that will upset the locals having coaches parked outside their houses.

[serko]

Does that Luton figure include the wait for the bus and the bus ride to the station? How frequent are the buses, can they cope with plane loads of people at the same time? howabout time at security or the walk from the gate to the bus is that included?

[Expressflight]

LTNman

Oh, I'm so sorry. It's obviously a different LTNman who said on the LTN thread the other day that at SEN "there are really strange sad characters who police the SEN thread". But you wouldn't be so rude as to say that obviously.

[maliyahsdad2]

Does the airport have a dedicated coach park outside the terminal? If not that will upset the locals having coaches parked outside their houses. ok LTMan, so you may not have actually ever been to Southend, but have you even looked at it on Google maps? Do you even know where the new terminal is?

[LTNman]

Does that Luton figure include the wait for the bus and the bus ride to the station? How frequent are the buses, can they cope with plane loads of people at the same time? howabout time at security or the walk from the gate to the bus is that included?

Yes I put in the terminal as the terminal is classed as a railway station by the National Rail Enquiries so you can buy a ticket to the terminal. From Luton Airport Parkway the quickest time is 1 hour 5 minutes which is quicker than from Southend. Busses run every 10 minutes and they use high capacity bendy coaches now which takes around 5 minutes between terminal and station. Photo here if you are interested. First Coaches . 19031 YJ07LVX . Luton Airport Parkway Station . 22nd December-2009 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/21611052@N02/4206903784/)

[LTNman]

LTNman

Oh, I'm so sorry. It's obviously a different LTNman who said on the LTN thread the other day that at SEN "there are really strange sad characters who police the SEN thread". But you wouldn't be so rude as to say that obviously.

So you thought I was talking about you, I wonder why?

Well you have to be honest, this isn’t a friendly place. I didn’t see anyone attacking me when I condemned Luton’s mid- term car park the other day on the Luton thread because that thread has a bit more maturity.

Most people here are just fine and can disagree with me in a sensible way and put me in my place. I welcome and respect their views and opinions but there is a very small minority here who might have complex issues and need help, as they come across as having obsessive thoughts about what is just an airport.

At the end of the day have I posted anything bad about the place over the last few months? I actually make sure I don't say anything bad about Southend but I might ask questions and post a few facts. I certainly haven’t called any part of the airport a disgrace like I did on the Luton thread 2 days ago. :cool:

[davidjohnson6]

As a very gentle request, would it be possible to take the personal discussions into private messaging please ?

[LTNman]

davidjohnson6 You’re such a sensible person. Sorry everyone for my thoughts on people here and not the airport. So what was the finally tally for diverts and does anyone know how the airport coped?

Is there a website for Southend photos so we might get to see these diversions?

[Expressflight]

davidjohnson6

Yes, I apologise for rising to the various baits that LTNman lays out.

I will simply leave it to others to decide whether his post of 11:17 today bears any resemblence to either reality or the tone of a number of his previous posts over recent weeks.

In future I promise I shall resist replying to posts from Trolls.

[Tagron]

There were some good old memories in the posts about Xmas Eve 1958. Inevitably with the passage of time the story has become distorted . This is true of the first two of the preceding accounts though the later posts have done a good job to put the record straight. At risk of boring the non-anorak readers here is some more.

First off I believe the total diversion figure on the 24th was 47, not the “over 50" that gets quoted. There were 3 further arrivals on Xmas day plus an Air Charter Tudor that had diverted in from STN on three engines on the 23rd remained there throughout taking up ramp space. Then on the 26th BEA used a pair of DC-3s to ferry their crews in from LHR. Maybe all these together produced the figure of “over 50.”

The first arrivals were not “Lufthansa Viscount 400s” (there was no such thing) but a Lufthansa Convair 340 and a BEA Viscount. Shortly after, two Air France Viscounts arrived in quick succession after a low visual circuit of the town which must have a roused the awareness of any locals interested in aviation that something unusual was happening. The KLM Connie soon after was indeed an L749 as already noted.

The majority of diversions were from LHR but there were a handful from LGW, Blackbushe and Croydon. I believe LGW was open at first and took some LHR diversions but soon succumbed to the fog.

It is not correct to say that BEA decided to position their ground equipment to SEN as a result of this big diversion. They had already done so since (IIRC) the previous winter. SEN itself only had one set of passenger steps suitable for Viscount sized aircraft, so the BEA steps were invaluable. Their Viscounts did not have integral steps at that time.

The story of the Pan Am 707 was published in the local newspaper. The claim was its arrival was only prevented by the arrival of the fog at SEN on Xmas day. I have always had my doubts as to whether this was ever a serious possibility.

All in all it was a remarkable set of circumstances - a widespread fog that left only SEN unaffected on a day of heavy traffic with (one guesses) an element of get-home-itis - whereas on any other day many of those flights would have been cancelled. And an outstanding performance by SEN ATC in handling it all with only limited equipment at their disposal and a severely congested airfield to cope with.

I was not going to bother with this contribution as it seemed to have missed the boat, but on further reflection I felt some light relief was necessary from the ongoing SEN Punch-and-Judy show on this thread which has now become exceptionally tedious.

[Expressflight]

Tagron

That's a very interesting post - thanks.

I apologise if you feel I've been contributing to the 'Punch & Judy show' and I agree it's been getting out of hand and is in danger of obscuring the tremendous achievements that have been made at SEN in the past six months. No more of that from me at least from now on I can assure you.

[Ernest Lanc's]

I think Tagron your post was timely. "missed the boat"..Nah, Nostalgia is always softening.

I think SEN has come a long way in a short while..I read posts not only on this thread, but others also wishing for carriers other than what they have.

In the case of SEN - I think a time for sitting back and looking what you have is called for..By that I mean, another another major carrier like Easy would be fine, or would it at this moment?.

Say Jet2 came to SEN, and tried muscling in on Easys routes, would that benefit SEN?. I would not wish to upset Easy at this stage...

I would be very wary if Easy came to BLK, would that clash with Jet2?..Who knows as in the NW, we are still gripped with recession, and there is only so much pie to go round.

SEN is different..London is not really affected by the double dip recession, being a fringe London airport..But still, Easy have been good for SEN, and care would have to be taken, when introducing new carriers.

Easy and FR cohabit well at Liverpool...But Monarch did not stay long at BLK, with LS breathing down their AGP route

[Tagron]

Thank you, but no need to apologise to me. Your quality posts are always welcome.

[Aero Mad]

Ernest raises an interesting point. We know that Stobart actually signed a contract with easyJet regarding ten years of services - within this there must have been some stipulations provided over competition. Jet2 might therefore actually not be allowed to operate from Southend in direct competition, depending on the specific clause. However, even if there was no legal requirement for them not to, would Stobart want another operator like that at the risk of souring relations with easyJet?

[davidjohnson6]

If an EU registered airline wants to fly between Southend and other points in the EU, its aircraft are able to remain with any technical / safety constraints, and the airline pays Southend the published airport fees, is there anything Stobart can do to prevent such scheduled flights ? The only thing I can really think of, is that if Easyjet get a much better deal on airport charges compared to published rates, then no other airline would be able to effectively compete on the same route, thus ensuring Easyjet a de factor monopoly.

Could Jet2 make money on Southend - Malaga ? Very unlikely
Could Wizz make money on Southend - Poland ? Quite possibly

On a separate note, there is a possibility that OLT may fly Southend - Saarbrucken in the period around Easter 2013 to coincide with school holidays in Germany - heard this verbally from someone at Southend in a position to know last week, and also from a report about OLT in the Saarland news media. OLT do not seem to expect a large amount of Essex or even UK originating traffic on the Saarbrucken route.
SR-online: Nachrichten / Regionalnachrichten (http://www.sr-online.de/nachrichten/30/1485831.html) (German only)

[Barling Magna]

Yes, there's money to be made introducing schedules to eastern Europe, Denmark and Germany from SEN - but only to the most important centres, not Saarbrucken.......

[LTNman]

Could Wizz make money on Southend - Poland ? Quite possibly

They didn't last long at Stansted and Stansted has a catchment area that is 360 degrees and not just in 2 directions. That was a few years ago though and since then Poles have continued to flood the UK so it might be the right time to try Southend.

[Barling Magna]

Re LTNMan's request for photos of the diversions, here are two by Chris Barrett showing two of them at SEN:
http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/189231_10151073217763947_2043171266_n.jpg

http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/262978_10151073218188947_556281522_n.jpg

[tophat27dt]

Yes, in the German article, the airline does suggest that the flights could start again next Easter to SEN.
Do you think A320s of Wizzair would operate from SEN's runway?
I don't think much will happen now until the terminal extension is completed.
One thing else....if these tour opertors/travel agencies are block-booking seats on EasyJet, surely this could mean that there will be less seats available to individual travellers (those who dont want a package deal) next year, especially at the bottom prices?

[LN-KGL]

Let's rather say: The Saarbrücken-Southend connection might or might not be resumed during the week between Palm Sunday weekend and Easter Monday.

Die Verbindung könne während der Osterferien wieder aufgenommen werden.

- könne = conjunctival form of the verb can
- während = during/throughout, preposition

[LTNman]

Thanks for those great photos. A photo is worth a thousand words but why is part of the apron fenced off?

[SENChris]

Thanks for those great photos. A photo is worth a thousand words but why is part of the apron fenced off?

That's the land which is earmarked for the terminal expansion adjacent to the existing building.

[JTSB]

The radius/direction of a catchment area has much less bearing than the amount of people in it. SEN's catchment area is huge, no matter where that catchment lies. The Thames Gateway/South Essex area is one of the most densely populated areas in the UK. There are also a lot of Eastern Europeans in this area. I suspect Whizz would do well out of SEN.

[JTSB]

To Poland, I would think so. They'd probably be able to stop short of a full tank of fuel wouldn't they? That would save some TOD.

[JTSB]

The apron itself is finished but the fenced-off bit is where the parking spaces in front of the second half of the terminal will be situated. Terminal extension groundwork is all done, you can see electrical cabling poking out of the ground. They just need to start building over it now.

[Barling Magna]

As far as A320s operating from Southend to Poland is concerned, Tagron has already provided a detailed summary as post 557 on page 28 of this thread.

Here's another of Chris Barrett's excellent images of diversions into SEN today, with the old control tower in the background this time:
http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/298421_10151073510493947_523734726_n.jpg

[davidjohnson6]

For Wizzair to move or split London operations would of course need a very good reason. The main reason I suggested it is as an overspill from Luton simply because Luton early morning is just so busy. Would Southend offer an opportunity for Wizz to base a few aircraft in London overnight or squeeze in some more rotations at peak hours ?

[pabely]

Overnight, I doubt you understand Wizzair model. I think this is all wishful thinking.......

[waveskimmer]

Having had the profound misfortune to be obliged to visit Southend of late,I can only suggest that east european routes would be very profitable since the surrounding area seems to be overun by their offspring and type,assuming of course they exhibit a desire to leave the area,which I very much doubt thanks to our biased benefits system

[davidjohnson6]

pabely - ok, it was dumb of me to talk about overnighting aircraft, since Wizz relies heavily on paying pilots + cabin crew diddly squat and not paying for anything like hotels.

However, the point about Luton being on the full side, and the proposed major building work at Luton currently only being at the planning stage remain - there's probably more latent demand for flights from the London area to Eastern Europe than W6 at Luton can currently provide. Thus, Wizz opening at Southend would only happen if Luton can't provide the space

[LTNman]

Wizz use Luton to swap aircraft about so they end up at their maintenance base. There are plenty of spare stands for Wizz in the morning. Every day is different but looking today there are 15 departures by 7am and only 3 Wizz arrivals. By 7:30 there will have been 22 departures excluding biz jets and 10 Wizz arrivals.

The real issue is the security lanes to get airside although the airport now opens temporary lanes via the old Silverjet terminal for a couple of hours each day which is not ideal but does the job.

In effect if Wizz opened a base at Southend they will just dilute Luton loads so will be in competition with themselves which is what Aer Arran have found out. If it is a new route they would lose the ability to swap aircraft.

Thinking about it more Easyjet operate the same routes from Stansted and Luton so I guess I am talking rubbish but I guess it all depends on total passengers per route whether a route could be split.

[LTNman]

Having had the profound misfortune to be obliged to visit Southend of late,I can only suggest that east european routes would be very profitable since the surrounding area seems to be overun by their offspring and type,assuming of course they exhibit a desire to leave the area,which I very much doubt thanks to our biased benefits system

Seems to be the same in most areas these days. I have no doubt that if Southend got a few Eastern European routes there would be a new influx of immigrants to the town. Luton is over run now with Eastern Europeans who could just afford the air fare to England but not the rail or bus fare to leave the town.
I have seen on many a morning Romanian Gypsies complete with headscarves and large gold hooped earrings pulling suitcases down the airport’s approach road as they head for the town.

[Barling Magna]

"Having had the profound misfortune to be obliged to visit Southend of late"

Now that's not a nice thing to say. One of your seniority should be aware of the attractions of retiring to Southend. Indeed, it was voted the best place in the UK to retire to:

Southend-on-Sea 'best place to retire' | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-381380/Southend-Sea-best-place-retire.html)

So many excellent reasons to live by the sea in Southend. It's a great place.

Mind you, it's in the Daily Mail so I wouldn't believe a word of it......

[Barling Magna]

Another LCY diversion this evening, but for a different reason. A Skywork Dornier 328 declared an emergency and landed at SEN; all safe. Just as well that field on the Essex coast was there.....:)

[Expressflight]

Smoke and burning smell on the flightdeck apparently shortly after departure LCY outbound to Bern.

[Barling Magna]

Do you know what happened to the passengers from this flight? Were theyr eturned to LCY by train?

[OpsSix]

The passengers were coached down to London and stayed in a hotel overnight in order to be flown back out of LCY this morning.

[Barling Magna]

Thank you. What a pain for them, but at least they are safe. I wonder if, when the Holiday Inn finally opens, diverted passengers in such instances might be put up there and flown on from SEN? The aircraft would have to be operational, of course, and that 328 is still at SEN today.

[LTNman]

More than one hotel in Southend me thinks so I don't think that stopped them.

[Barling Magna]

True, but only one on the airport.

[OpsSix]

I would imagine if it were a wx divert, then the new hotel may well be used if the pax weren't going anywhere for a while. The A/C would of course be serviceable and ready to go unlike the D328 currently sitting at SEN.

In this instance, SkyWorks wanted the pax to be close to LCY for the morning flight.

[Barling Magna]

And finally, news that the Holiday Inn at the airport will open on 1st October:

ADS Advance - Southend Airport opens new Holiday Inn (http://www.adsadvance.co.uk/southend-airport-opens-new-holiday-inn.html)

The fifth floor restaurant gives a good view of the apron:

http://www.adsadvance.co.uk/media/images/Southend%20An%20easyJet%20landing%20seen%20from%20the%20wind ow%20of%20the%20%201945%20Restaurant%20at%20the%20LSA%20Holi day%20inn%20restaurant.jpg

[Expressflight]

Good news about the opening of the Holiday Inn, albeit rather later than originally planned. I`m sure it will add still further to the appeal of SEN for business travellers in particular. I`m looking forward to staying there in a couple of weeks time.

[davidjohnson6]

Normally I would regard the opening of a Holiday Inn as a rather mundane event worthy of as much debate as a post-curry belch. But I guess it's different in this case with all the implications it has for early morning and late night flights at SEN

[Ernest Lanc's]

davidjohnson6

I don't know the immediate geography of SEN..I would be surprised though if other hostelries nearby, could not offer the same facilities nearby - Cheaper.

This airport has come on leaps and bounds in a short time, it struck me that Holiday Inn was maybe not as important as the runway extension et al.

[maliyahsdad2]

Ernest, there is a premier inn at near the end of 06 (near tescos on the way to Southend) and a hotel up aviation way which was handy but due to the extension itself is just a little bit further away from the terminal now and one in Rochford (These are good quality places within a mile or so). The Holiday Inn is on the airport grounds itself, on a main bus route and a very short walk from the new terminal and railway station.
On this old car park = southend airport - Google Maps (http://goo.gl/maps/ky21S)

[Expressflight]

The disadvantage of all the other 'nearby' hotels is that they are a taxi ride from the terminal whereas the Hoilday Inn is only about 200 metres from the Passenger terminal and 100 metres from the Executive terminal. Hopefully the Holiday Inn might be particularly useful in attracting more bizjet traffic to SEN.

[Barling Magna]

The restaurant is open to anyone, so it will attract our friends with binoculars and cameras! As a 4 Star hotel the Holiday Inn won't have any real competition unless a passenger wants to go off airport and journey to the seafront to the Roslin Beach Hotel. The photo I posted earlier shows how close the hotel is to the apron and terminal. You can now read more on the SEN website:

New London Southend Airport Holiday Inn Opens | Latest News | LSA - Community Relations & News | London Southend Airport (http://www.southendairport.com/news/latest-news/new-london-southend-airport-holiday-inn-opens/)

the five-storey hotel has a magnificent, fully sound-proofed rooftop bar and restaurant, called the 1935 Rooftop Restaurant & Bar; a reference to the year that airport opened as a municipal airport for the public. Guests can enjoy spectacular panoramic views of the airport and surrounding area whilst enjoying their drinks or dinner.

http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/523294_399854990079694_62105199_n.jpg

[davidjohnson6]

Can't imagine binoculars or large zoom lenses will be particularly welcome in a restaurant around mealtimes.

[vulcanised]

BBC News - Plane crashes at Southend Airport when undercarriage fails (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-19762558)

[Expressflight]

Hardly "plane crashes" but what do you expect from the media?

For the record it's PAZT, G-BKJW which suffered a nosewheel collapse on landing. It's an aircraft that I have fond memories of operating many years ago. Hard luck Alan, I hope she's not terminally damaged.

[Ernest Lanc's]

Hardly "plane crashes" but what do you expect from the media?



Might feel like a plane crash if I was in it Expressflight;)

I remember an aborted take off and fire engines round the a/c at BLK, makes you wonder - well why

More so when after a 3 hour delay, the same captain talked to us over the tanoid..Not the best feeling taking off in an aircraft that had aborted take off just a couple or so hours ago:eek:.

[LTNman]

The Moderator has deleted one of my posts and a few hostile replies so let’s all be nice to each other before someone picks up a ban.

I will ask the question again so please don’t bite my head off.

In 2011 I read an article that Stobart might have to soundproof homes close to the airport if noise levels were too high. This was part of the planning permission for the runway extension.

Southend Airport may have to soundproof nearby homes (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/9299493.Southend_Airport_may_have_to_soundproof_nearby_homes/)

I am assuming Stobart has not yet paid out and might not have to pay out but to keep within strict noise limits, which seem to be stricter than before the runway extension was built, has the airport imposed bans on certain types of nosier aircraft that might want to operate out of the airport thus restricting business?

Has this or could this affected the maintenance of these older noisier aircraft that has been carried out at Southend in the past?

[SWBKCB]

LTNman - what noisy types are you thinking of? Can't think of any in passenger service to the UK (although Atr's always sound noisy to me).

Similarly for maintenance, the main types currently are B737/757, A320 family and 146's which shouldn't be a problem - any other types which might be a concern (DC-9/MD80, B727, B737-200?) will be few and far between so shouldn't have an impact. To prompt action, sound levels have to be above an average for a period of time - from the article linked to above:


Now if the noise from planes exceeds 69 decibels over a 16-hour period, between 7am to 11pm, the airport is required to offer to buy affected homes for their market value – assuming the owner wants to sell.

In homes which register 63 decibels over the same period, the airport must offer to install double glazing or other types of sound insulation.

[LTNman]

Those figures are really low. I have been reading Luton's figures and most aircraft bust even the higher Southend figure of 69dB let alone the 63dB figure.

Luton figures for June are as follows
Less than 70dB 351 movement 11% (Southend maximum limit)
Between 70 and 73dB 987 movements 27%
Beween 73 and 76dB 1,608 movements 47%
Between 76 and 79dB 498 movements 14%
Between 79 and 82 dB 29 movements 1%
Between 82 and 85dB 6 movement
Between 85 and 88 dB 1 movement
Above 88dB 1 movement.

(The 22 daytime departures registering maximum noise levels of 82dB(A) or above during the period April to June 2012 related primarily to ad hoc business jets, involving older generation Boeing 737-200 aircraft and Gulfstream 2/3 aircraft and to one ad hoc AN-12 cargo operation)

There were no daytime noise violations during the quarter.

Does this mean that Stobart is heading for a big bill as only 11% of Luton's movements come under Southend's limit and remember that easyjet is Luton's largest airline?

I have read that for every 3dB difference is double the noise.

[Expressflight]

LTNman

I wonder if you are confusing individual movement noise readings with the average over the 16 hour period. As far as I recall the situation regarding the fact of Stobarts having to purchase properties (or not) would be decided after one year(?) of ops from the extended runway once all the noise monitoring data was available. I haven't the time at present to look into the agreements in detail but perhaps someone else has them readily to hand.

I also seem to recall that there was a very small quota allowed within the movement cap for those aircraft which didn't meet the appropriate ICAO Chapter category for unrestricted movements. This was included to ensure that ATC Lasham's MRO facilities were not adversely affected.

Your inference that Stobarts may be concerned that a "big bill" will arise as a result of the planning consent requirements doesn't appear to be causing them to lose sleep.

[LTNman]

Think you are right there. An average reading over 16 hours has no real meaning then. It won't be long before the locals start to question this.

[Expressflight]

They may "question" it but I cannot see it doing them any good. If the airport complies with the planning consent with regard to noise levels then end of story.

The 16 hour period noise limit obviously has meaning as it's applied throughout the UK and possibly beyond and has been decided upon as being a level above which remedial action has to be taken. That seems eminently sensible and fair to all parties but perhaps you would disagree.

[Ernest Lanc's]

In 2011 I read an article that Stobart might have to soundproof homes close to the airport if noise levels were too high. This was part of the planning permission for the runway extension.

LTNman
I see you use the world "could".- taken from your link. What's the point, unless the word "is" rather than could was used?.


Think you are right there. An average reading over 16 hours has no real meaning then. It won't be long before the locals start to question this.
About what?..I presume there was a planning stage and the "locals" knew what was involved.

LTNman..Read this:
Claims of noisy jets at Southend Airport are rejected by council

PEOPLE who protest about increased noise from Southend Airport (http://www.pprune.org/search/?search=Southend+Airport) are confusing its flights with other airports, council chiefs claim.
Bosses at Southend Council said the number of complaints about aircraft noise was at roughly the same level as it had been before easyJet moved into the town in April.

Claims of noisy jets at Southend Airport are rejected by council (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/9795214.Claims_of_noisy_jets_at_Southend_Airport_are_rejecte d_by_council/)

I know this is from July..but if anything, noise late September should be less than high summer.

[maliyahsdad2]

Some locals are ganging together spearheaded by the local group SAEN , local environmental campaigners and some no win no fee lawyers and chartered surveyors to push for compensation due to loss of property values because of noise. see Residents press for airport compensation (From Echo) (http://www.echonews.co.uk/news/local_news/9920765.Residents_press_for_airport_compensation)



They can put their claims in from 8th March 2013 and have 6 years to claim.


Additionally I believe that some improvements could be claimed for (Double glazing etc) after 18 months of operation as part of the planning agreements for certain nearby properties.

[Barling Magna]

Just for interest's sake:

0 dB Normal breathing 20 dB Rustling leaves, mosquito 30 dB Whisper 40 dB Stream, refrigerator humming 50-60 dB Quiet office 50-65 dB Normal conversation 60-65 dB Laughter 70 dB Vacuum cleaner, hair dryer 75 dB Dishwasher 78 dB Washing machine 80 dB Garbage disposal, city traffic noise
Prolonged exposure to any noise above 90 dB can
cause gradual hearing loss
84 dB Diesel truck 70-90 dB Recreational vehicle 88 dB Subway, motorcycle 85-90 dB Lawnmower 100 dB Train, garbage truck 97 dB Newspaper press 98 dB Farm tractor
Regular exposure of more than 1 minute
risks permanent hearing loss.
103 dB Jet flyover at 100 feet 105 dB Snowmobile 110 dB Jackhammer, power saw, symphony orchestra 120 dB Thunderclap, discotheque/boom box 110-125 dB Stereo 110-140 dB Rock concerts 130 dB Jet takeoff, shotgun firing 145 dB Boom cars
63db is very low - normal conversation - but hopefully higher than the ambient noise over 16 hours, although road traffic and birdsong may impact!

[Pain in the R's]

Interesting points raised but surly the 16 hour average has to be based on the average dB level created by all aircraft operating out of Southend and can’t include the long gaps between departures. If it does then the anti-airport locals have been conned.

Reading the comments from the council they appear to be fudging the issue but it makes for interesting reading reading the 143 comments below the article.

[Ernest Lanc's]

where a solicitor has already offered to act on a no-win, no-fee basis.


It's a stunt IMO by the solicitors and chartered accountants, to get fees from any compensation thay hope residents will get.

[Expressflight]

PitR

As I understand it the 16 hour 63dB noise level does exactly what you suggest. It takes into account the individual noise of each movement over the period (depending on expected traffic mix presumably) and by some mathematical calculation produces the dB level that those movements at those particular noise levels represent over a 16 hour period. This is then factored in relation to the frequency of the noise events as that obviously has a considerably bearing on the overall annoyance/disturbance levels, so gaps between movements DO need to be taken into account.

I'm sure a little Googling will produce the formulae used and explain how it's all done, although I doubt that it makes for light reading.

I believe this same formula is applied to all UK airports so it isn't a case of SEN being an exception to the Government-imposed rule. Whether residents around all UK airports are therefore being "conned" I couldn't say.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Some locals are ganging together spearheaded by the local group SAEN , local environmental campaigners and some no win no fee lawyers and chartered surveyors to push for compensation due to loss of property values because of noise. see Residents press for airport compensation (From Echo) (http://www.echonews.co.uk/news/local_news/9920765.Residents_press_for_airport_compensation)"

Quote: "It's a stunt IMO by the solicitors and chartered accountants, to get fees from any compensation thay hope residents will get."

Quite. Think the word we're looking for is "ambulance chasing".

PPI anyone? BTW has anyone on this forum had unsolicited phone calls from one of these encouraging the commiting of fraud?

Interesting point about property values, are they really falling in southend/Rochford because of the airport? Find it hard to believe.

Under the Heathrow flightpath, in contrast, property prices are rising so fast (and always have done) that first time buyers, including those who have grown up in the area, can't afford to buy locally and often have to leave the area.

[vulcanised]

although Atr's always sound noisy to me


Before the runway was extended, the ATRs often used to fly directly over my house at around 1500ft off 24.

I was impressed at how quiet they were, in fact I only noticed them when I was expecting them from radio chat.

[LN-KGL]

These 63/69 dB noise levels will be measured within each individual home with all windows shut.

The noise reduce with distance. As an example: The maximum noise from an Airbus A320 with CFM56 engines with max possible thrust on brakes is 109 dB measured 60 metres from centre of the aircraft. If you increase this distance to 10 times that which is 600 metres, you will find by measuring the sound level that it's now 89 dB or lower. The reason for me saying "or lower" is that calculation of noise is based on free field/free sight conditions and with hard surface ground. Grass, shrubs, trees, embankments will absorb and/or deflect the noise. The weak point in every house, when it comes to sound proofing, is the windows. A typical single glass windows reduce the noise with around 20 dB, so a house with single glazed windows 600 metres from an A320 om max power without any vegetation around it (free field) would have had a maximum sound level inside the house of 69 dB. Double glazed sound proof windows will typically reduce the sound with 43-46 dB, but then the walls of the house would be the main noise provider to the inside of the house. If that wasn't the case the same house 600 metres from the A320 at full power would have had peak noise level of 46 dB which would had been equal to a refrigerator humming.

So talking about noise levels as absolute figures is nonsense. The use of the noise levels at Luton have no relevance since the three measuring points at LTN is only placed in accordance with Annex 16/FAR Part 36 Takeoff Reference Point (6,500 metres from brake release). Dependent of how much above 88 dB the last aircraft had, all measured noise levels show results below Stage 3 maximum levels for take offs. This does not tell anything about how little/much noise the residents at the far end of Ludlow Avenue experience the noise to be inside their houses. The CFM56 on an A320 is at the noisiest 120° out from the nose (4 and 8 o'clock). If the aircraft is flying directly above the measuring spot it's 3-4 dB lower than if it's showing the side of the aircraft to measuring unit.

In other word you can't say yes or no to if the 63/69dB limits are broken without measuring inside some of the houses in the neighbourhood to an airport.

[Phileas Fogg]

In a previous life I worked for a DC8-62F operator, DC8-62's that were (supposedly) Stage 3 hushkitted and compliant, but just try taking off from such an airport as LGW at MTOW and remaining Stage 3!

The noise reporting points are indicated on the aerodrome plates, all we did was throttle back as we passed over the reporting point(s) before opening up the throttles again.

It's a nonsense :)

[Expressflight]

Although the information given by LN-KGL is interesting in relation to the noise produced by a single aircraft movement, it has no direct relevance to the 69dB(A)Leq noise contour. It is only properties within that contour which become eligible for purchase by the airport authority.

The Leq noise figure is defined as "the equivalent continuous sound level" based upon the aircraft type mix and number of anticipated movements at an airport. When used to produce a noise contour map it is also defined as "the time weighted average noise level between 07:00 & 23:00". So the 69dB contour on an Leq basis will be very much smaller than the 69bB contour for a single aircraft movement. In fact the 69dB(A)Leq contour projections to 2020 for SEN with its extended runway show it to remain within the airport boundary, with the possible exception of two or three houses on the west side of Southend Road, Rochford.

I think this puts into perspective the extent of any potential liability on the part of Stobarts. Presumably the noise contour map may be amended in the light of 12 months(?) operational experience of the extended runway but it's hard to see that producing sufficient difference to the 69dB noise contour so as to include any other properties.

[LTNman]

It is all here with out of date 2006 contour lines before the runway extension was built.

http://ripassetseu.s3.amazonaws.com/www.southendairport.com/_files/documents/apr_12/SOUTHEND__1333443173_Southend_Adopted_NAP_March_201.pdf

Interesting points made here about Southend and its new noise rules. A very quick read and I might have read it wrong will have some implications if easyjet want to base more than 3 aircraft at Southend as movements after 11pm are restricted to just 3 a night as night includes the times beween 23:00 and 23:30

No passenger flights may be scheduled to arrive or depart during Night Time Hours, except that up to a maximum of 90 passenger flights in any one calendar month may be scheduled to arrive between 23:00 and 23:30 local time, such flights to be included in the Monthly Quota.

Also some aircraft are now banned

No aircraft with a noise level exceeding QC2 shall take off or land at any time, unless they are emergency flights, military flights, Government business flights or police flights, maintenance flights or diversions. QC4 aircraft using the airport for maintenance may land or take off only during the Day Time (0630-2300 hrs) and the total QC4 aircraft movements will be limited to 60 per annum

[LN-KGL]

London Southend Airport Noise Action Plan from March 2012:
46 EXPECTED OUTCOME

It is not possible at this stage to forecast the outcome of the proposed noise reduction measures. The planning application Environmental Assessment contains forecasts of the noise contours and the respective numbers of persons within each contour for the Base Case and the Development Case. In summary, the areas and populations within each contour are as set out in Table 16 below:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23931688/Tabeller/SEN_noise.jpg

Table 16: Dwellings and People in Noise Contour Areas – LAeq,16h (16h Period): 2020

The London Southend Airport Noise Action Plan from March 2012 has noise maps based on 2006 traffic. Looking at today's traffic, the commercial movements has tripled since that time (comparing on numbers for 2006 with 2012). Using the maps provided I guess we are talking about some few houses on the western side of Southend Road north of the Sutton Road roundabout that are among the above 69 dBLAeq,16h mentioned in the development case column.

Source: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CCoQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fripassetseu.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fwww.southend airport.com%2F_files%2Fdocuments%2Fapr_12%2FSOUTHEND__133344 3173_Southend_Adopted_NAP_March_201.pdf&ei=JhVoUOnmLOSo4gTAt4HYAg&usg=AFQjCNGMMi4C1WTZCSXKEhQQHi7IKxagcA&sig2=hhG-fVZs_pQ6rk3VI98JbQ

[Expressflight]

LN-KGL

As I mentioned in my earlier post this morning, the two or three houses on Southend Road are the only properties predicted to fall within in the 2020 69dB(A)Leq16h contour. That will, of course, need to be confirmed in due course by new measurements of actual noise levels.

[LTNman]

Quite a few more will qualify for sound proofing even using the 2006 figure with the shorter runway.

[asdf1234]

SEN seems to have a fair bit of maintenance activity and I was there last week when an engine run was being undertaken. This lasted in excess of 15 minutes in the early evening and would undoubtedly have been heard by, and caused a noise nuisance to, houses outside of the normal arrivals/departure corridor. Does this type of activity and its attendant noise contribute to the 16 hour average?

[rowly6339]

Did anyone see the newly wrapped tugs and baggage trucks on Stobarts tv program Friday. Very smart indeed.

[LN-KGL]

I've only seen them live ;)

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23931688/Airports/Stobart_tug.jpg

[mikkie4]

increase from 3 flights to 6 flights a week on the build up to christmas,this should keep the 3rd plane busy,and help the passenger numbers

[asdf1234]

SEN/GENEVA
increase from 3 flights to 6 flights a week on the build up to christmas,this should keep the 3rd plane busy,and help the passenger numbers

Blimey, if they carry on like this they will soon be busier than Iverness and snapping at the heels of really busy airports like Blackpool, Scilly Isles and Scatsta...:D

[Expressflight]

asdf1234

Sorry, I don't quite see what you're getting at. Is it not good news that a brand new route warrants additional Christmas frequencies? Modest in itself of course but yet another step in the right direction.
JER also increased to daily I understand from 14 December to 7 January (excluding Christmas Day).

Reference your enquiry regarding ground running noise, it's covered in the Noise Action Plan I believe so have a look there.

[Barling Magna]

Blimey, if they carry on like this they will soon be busier than Iverness and snapping at the heels of really busy airports like Blackpool, Scilly Isles and Scatsta...:D

Securing more operators would be useful, but SEN is on course to finish above Bournemouth, Exeter, IOM, Norwich and Doncaster Sheffield in the year April 2012-March 2013 in pax. Not a bad effort within the first year of EZY operations.

This article from Bloomberg just seems to be using PPRuNe and other forums as its information source:

London Southend Airport Tempts TUI as Growth Push Gathers Pace - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-30/london-southend-airport-tempts-tui-as-growth-push-gathers-pace.html)

[asdf1234]

Sorry, I don't quite see what you're getting at.

Just adding some perspective to a sometimes over-excited thread, a counter-weight to all the exuberant pro-Stobart propaganda.

I'm a supporter of the airport and keen to see it prosper as a multi-use field for all types of aviation includng private and business use alongside the scheduled orange movements.

[LTNman]

There will alway be a big role at Southend for private flying.

[Expressflight]

Whether the "roll" be cheese, ham or BLT, I think SEN only will pay lip service to private flying in future. It just doesn't seem to fit their future vision for SEN unfortunately; but perhaps not surprisingly.

[LTNman]

When Luton was handling around 2,000,000 passengers a year there was not much happening at the airport for large parts of the day. This allowed plenty of time for GA including GA touch and goes.

No point in turning money away because the airpot is getting snobby and thinks it is something that it isn't.

[goldeneye]

Thomas Cook holidays are offering SEN departures now albeit using allocation on EZY, Destinations are PMI, IBZ and ALC.

[Expressflight]

LTNman

Just out of interest did LTN still have its grass runway in use in those days? I cannot remember when it was withdrawn.

[tophat27dt]

I ask again the question: If Thomas Cook and other inclusive tour operators are buying in advance the cheapest seats available from SEN with EZY, what is left for the normal passenger?

[Expressflight]

I suppose it depends on the size of the seat allocation that the tour operators are buying. I would guess it isn't very great per flight but perhaps someone has firm information on that.

I assume the SEN-JER attracted tour operator bookings this summer but it didn't seem to impact much on the prices available to independent travellers.

[LTNman]

It had 2 grass runways. I can't remember either when they were closed but it was between 1986 and 1994.

I would imagine when Luton was a 2,000,000 passenger airport and when Southend becomes a 2,000,000 passenger airport there will be a few similarities. The based aircraft will leave nice and early then the place will be dead apart from the odd none based aircraft turning up. Then the wave will return all at similar times. There will be 3 waves of departures and 3 waves of arrivals each day when Southend will appear to be really busy. At other times the place will be dead. Well that’s what happened at Luton anyway.

Luton was fine with GA aircraft even at the busier times until it reached about 4 or 5 million then GA was priced out of Luton as it was no longer welcome.

If it can Southend should encourage all aviation as it helps pay the bills.

[Aero Mad]

If it can Southend should encourage all aviation as it helps pay the bills.

Absolutely agree with you; too many smaller airports get snobbish about GA and ultimately it is they who lose out when, from the time when the first wave of loco departures has gone early in the morning, the airfield remains quietish throughout the day. As long as GA isn't a hindrance at Southend, it should be welcomed and encouraged.

[LTNman]

GA pilots review of Southend here Pilot reviews of Southend Airport (http://ukga.com/airfield/southend/reviews)

[LTNman]

I hear that there was only 18 passengers on the AMS-SEN morning flight yesterday.

[EI-BUD]

And your point is LTNman, re only 18 on Ams sen flight.?

I've often flown on early Sunday morn BFS LPL, with as few as 6 people on the sector, but this route still remains one of easyJet's busiest. Early Sunday can be soft in terms of bookings especially from here on over Winter.

[LTNman]

So you know that Easyjet are not bothered about certain flights being run with next to no passengeres so will just carry on? Ryanair are bothered as they just lay up their aircraft as it is cheaper to park them instead of fly them.

[Expressflight]

....... so if I posted here that another AMS flight on one particular day was full that would mean the route is definitely a roaring success I suppose.

Oh, and by the way, there isn't a morning AMS-SEN on a Sunday so how reliable is your information anyway?

[photoman27]

Re yesterdays AMS flight the were actually 142 pax in & 134 out so I don't quite know where you get your info from.

[EGPFlyer]

LTNman there have been low loads on the BFS but not this weekend. If you are going to troll, at least get your facts right ;)

[LTNman]

....... so if I posted here that another AMS flight on one particular day was full that would mean the route is definitely a roaring success I suppose.

Oh, and by the way, there isn't a morning AMS-SEN on a Sunday so how reliable is your information anyway?



Did I say there was an issue with the route?

As for a Sunday morning flight that was my fault for making an assumption about the arrival time. My source just said the first flight of the day. I can't verify the information but just pass it on in good faith.

[maliyahsdad2]

A Few more diverts this evening from LCY.

[Barling Magna]

Re yesterday's AMS flight there were actually 142 pax in & 134 out

That's a pretty good load factor for this time of year. Impressive.

[8674planes]

Yep a couple of LCY diverts due to a fire alarm being activated at LCY.

[LTNman]

Re yesterday's AMS flight there were actually 142 pax in & 134 out


Very good figures indeed!

[Expressflight]

The first LH flight to divert to SEN from LCY was among those that diverted this evening.

[maliyahsdad2]

Another article in the "Echo" following on from the noise debate a few days ago. Some interesting points raised.

Airport compensation claims could take years, bosses warn (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/9958897.Airport_compensation_claims_could_take_years__bosses _warn/)

[photoman27]

This was the second LH DH8 to divert in from LCY but it has been a while, DADHC came in on 03/06/2008.

[FR-]

LTNMANS source must of gave them the wrong date, yesterdays early ams-sen only had 17 on, my friend was one of them.

[Expressflight]

photoman27

Thanks for the correction.

[Barling Magna]

LTNMANS source must of gave them the wrong date, yesterdays early ams-sen only had 17 on, my friend was one of them.

Well, that's not so impressive.

[Barling Magna]

More happy customers like this should help though:
Why flying from London Southend Airport is a breath of fresh air | This is Money (http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/holidays/article-2211259/Why-flying-London-Southend-Airport-breath-fresh-air.html)

[Pain in the R's]

Seemed a little biased seeing that the reporter admits that he is a local. He wouldn’t have been drinking tea in 15 minutes from arriving if he lived in London and as he admits as the airport grows so will the delays.

[Barling Magna]

True enough, but it doesn't detract from the overall message that currently SEN is achieving its aim of whisking people from aircraft to train or car in a short time which must be attractive to many people and bodes well for the future. The extended terminal should cope with growth over the next few years.

[Expressflight]

PitR's

What he actually said was "My only concern is that it will attract too many flights in the near future, which will result in longer queuing times", which is not quite how you described his comments.

I'm sure Stobarts are well aware that they must maintain the ease of use aspect and won't be looking for additional flights at peak times until the terminal is doubled in size. There's obviously plenty of capacity still off- peak so that's where any growth in flight numbers is likely to be seen next year I imagine.

LTNman

I've done a little research on pax numbers on the AMS route and it certainly does seem to be true to say that some flights have experienced very low figures in the past week, although I haven't been able to obtain the exact numbers. It will be interesting to see the September CAA stats in 10 days or so.

[Barling Magna]

It's disappointing to hear about low numbers on the AMS route. Perhaps there needs to be an advertising campaign in S. Essex on the worldwide links available from AMS. In this respect KLM have a distinct advantage of course.

[Expressflight]

I don't think it's necessarily something that should cause alarms bells to ring, because a look at travel dates one or two weeks ahead shows prices which don't seem in general to be greatly different to those on LTN-AMS for example. Overall the numbers may be quite acceptable, but are just currently low on certain days/sectors.

[GAZMO]

What SEN needs is through flights.

If Easy put on an extra flight from BFS to SEN early in the morning then it could fly on to short haul European destinations, like AMS, CDG and Brussels. Prefer Brussels as EZY does covers the other two

With allocated seating from late November it could possibly work to maintain yields and LF

Views welcome on following

BFS depart 6.45 arrive SEN 8.00
SEN depart 8.30 arrive AMS/CDG/Brussels 9.30
Depart AMS/CDG/Brussels 10.00 arrive SEN 11.00
Through passengers checked by UK Immigration then reboard
Depart SEN 11.30 arrive BFS 12.45

[Phileas Fogg]

GAZMO,

If one departs SEN at 0830 and, based on a one hour block time, one arrives PAR/BRU/AMS at 1030, one then can't depart PAR/BRU/AMS at 1000 because the aircraft hasn't yet arrived but if one departs PAR/BRU/AMS at 1100, and based on a one hour block time, one arrives SEN at 1100.

Question is ..... who the hell wants to depart the continent just before lunch to arrive BFS or wherever just as the business day is closing?

[Ernest Lanc's]

There's obviously plenty of capacity still off- peak so that's where any growth in flight numbers is likely to be seen next year I imagine.




That's a bit optimistic, wouldn't you say?..By definition, "off peak" is an unbusy time".

There is bound to be capacity during off peak times...How can that capacity be used to increase growth in flight numbers?.

[Expressflight]

Capacity at any time can be used to increase growth in flight numbers.

Here are just two examples:

There is capacity for European SEN arrivals from 0730 onwards on weekdays with departures 30 minutes later.

Also for middle of the day w-pattern arrivals/departures which would be perfectly suitable for any number of once daily services, such as the OLT DRS route.

If the only routes that airlines operated at LON airports were during the morning and evening peak periods there simply wouldn't be a European airline industry.

[mikkie4]

olympic holidays also block booking easyjet flights for winter 2012/13,sum 2013,available to book now

[LTNman]

It's disappointing to hear about low numbers on the AMS route.

Heard from another source that the reason for the big drop in passengers is that easyjet have now realigned the prices of some flights so that they are more in line with their services from other London airports.

It seems that they have no problem filling seats at Southend but only if they keep prices artificially low. The thinking is that these passengers would have booked a higher price ticket at another London airport so easyjet were being hit twice by not getting the higher fare and by subsidising the ticket price from Southend as part of the route launch.

With similar prices Southend appears to have lost some of its appeal despite the benefits of a small terminal. Not sure how this will play out in the long term and also I am only going by what I have been told.

[Ernest Lanc's]

With similar prices Southend appears to have lost some of its appeal despite the benefits of a small terminal. Not sure how this will play out in the long term and also I am only going by what I have been told.

Don't agree...At BLK prices normally are higher than MAN..But with high load factors on the routes they have..That has made no difference in pax numbers.

Pax only dropped after FR left because, or so they say - because of the ADF.

I am willing to pay that bit more for convenience, and so IMO: are others.
SEN has it's appeal due to it's ease of use.

Heard from another source that the reason for the big drop in passengers


I take it that by "big drop in passengers", you mean on the AMS route?

Well all routes don't take off for various reasons, as far as SEN is concerned..If other routes are doing well. AMS does not matter that much.

[LTNman]

Ernest Lanc's

I am willing to pay that bit more for convenience, and so IMO: are others.
SEN has it's appeal due to it's ease of use.


I know where you are coming from as I pay a premium to fly IT from Luton when I can save a fortune flying from Gatwick. Locals will always pay a premium to fly from their local airport and maybe Londoners will for the convenience of using Southend but the passenger loads might now be telling a different story.


I have no idea how true this story is as I might have been fed duff information.

[Tagron]

LTNman's story may well have some validity in that it might be understandable if easyJet were driving up SEN-AMS prices to see what the market would stand.

But then flight times from SEN to AMS are shorter than from the other London terminals, and landing fees at SEN are rock bottom (if we are to believe what we are continually told) so operating costs from SEN should be lower and this should support a lower fare structure.

Does easyJet really know to what extent those "artificially low fares" took customers away from their own parallel routes, and to what extent they won customers from their competitors ? And to what extent those supposedly low fares encouraged people to fly who otherwise would not have felt able to afford it ? Perhaps this is what they are trying to establish.

[FRatSTN]

My view is that EasyJet really are sqeezing everything they can out of Southend. Further closure of popular routes from Stansted like Barcelona in January 2013 and it seems now Alicante as well from June 2013 will not be because they are underperforming, there is certainly demand and huge potential for big profits for those routes from Stansted. The only explanation is that they are doing it to take the strain off Southend. I think also it's absolutely the case that Southend is only as successful as it is due to prices being considerably lower than other London airports in alot of cases, but I think it is articially low and it won't stay that way for ever. Also flying times are more attractive on the Southend routes with the ideal 10am departures to the Med as opposed to the choice of leaving at 6am or getting there at 10pm on Stansted flights. EasyJet are not stupid, they know everything that the typical customer desires and have effectively made sure that Southend flights are the perfect scenario whilst there are drawbacks with the others (like higher fares), but are perservered with due to the benefits of flying to a larger airport like Gatwick or Stansted (eg. better flight connections or quicker travelling time to London etc.) They will struggle to maintain this approach for ever.

In addition, BAA will sell Stansted not too far in the future and will in theory become much more competitive than it currently is, and shouldn't take too long to do that being seperatley owned from Heathrow. What if the new owners promissed lower landing fees or attracted EasyJet in some other way, which being more competitive, which is almost a certainty, could be quite easily achieved. It could really make Southend suffer. I bet if we never had this reccession then EasyJet would have never used Southend. In the longer term, when the economy recovers, Southend is always going to struggle with the feirce competition of the much larger, well connected (not BAA owned) Stansted.

[Pain in the R's]

posted by LTN man. Locals will always pay a premium to fly from their local airport and maybe Londoners will for the convenience of using Southend You mention the convenience of using Southend but is it really that convenient? Yes the terminal is small so is quick to get out of but passengers still have to check in at least 1 hour before departure if they have luggage and 40 minutes if they have hand luggage. That is no different to larger airports.

The first train of the day from London arrives at 1:47 in the morning but passengers will have to wait outside the terminal in the cold for over 2 hours as unfriendly Southend will not let them in even to keep warm.

The second departure leaves London at 04:59 but involves 3 changes and a half hour walk between stations and takes 1 hour 34 minutes.

The third departure from London arrives at Southend at 6:32 and takes 1 hour 5 minutes. This train is no good for the first Amsterdam departure if you have luggage and is leaving things fine if you don’t. If that train was ever cancelled passengers would miss their flight. A 1 hour 5 minute trip on the train that stops at every station will never feel convenient in my opinion.

That leaves the car, so where is the motorway that gets passengers from London to the airport? There isn’t one. OK a fast A road will be just as quick as a motorway at 5 in the morning but for the rest of the day this is not ideal particularly as Southend Airport feels like it is located in a residential area of the town.

In the other direction the M1 and M11 penetrates outer London getting the car driver to the North Circular Road which was London’s first orbital ring road. Southend drivers have to drive through the streets of London to reach this road.

Southend will always be convenient for the locals who will always have to drive whether to Southend or Stansted if Southend is nearer but is Southend such a great option if you live in London? I can think of a few other airports that I might want to use first.

[SWBKCB]

How many passengers out of SEN are actually travelling from central London. I'm always surprised/amused when any discussion on access to London's airports always concentrate on this point - is it just because it is easy to measure?

[Pain in the R's]

Maybe it is because Southend calls itself London Southend. If it didn't then the question would go away.

A better name would be North Sea Southend Airport. No one could then argue the point about its convenience to getting to the east coast.

[Barling Magna]

I've been sat in traffic queues on the M11 more often than I care to remember. The A127 is usually quite a fast road, but I've been stuck in jams on that too. Not a lot of difference really. The early trains are certainly a drawback and need addressing, but at least the on Airport hotel is now opening.

The trains stopping at the airport station certainly seem very full at busy times, so I guess quite a lot of folks are heading to and from London - they can't all be going to Billericay.....

There's really no issue with Southend calling itself London Southend as it has done, unofficially, for many years. Southend has been east London's seaside extension for over a century and its distance from the capital is only marginally greater than some other London airports. It's certainly part of the London region in a way that Oxford or Manston, for example, can't claim to be. Try flying to Oslo with Ryanair and see where you end up.....:)

[Expressflight]

PitR's

I congratulate you on making the early train situation sound like a nightmare but you've cleverly been selective in making it seem worse than it is. Perhaps I can be allowed to put the facts a little more accurately.

Nobody it their right mind will take the 0459 departure which, as you say, takes 93 minutes and involves several changes of train arriving SEN at 0631. Why would they not do this? Simply because the 0528 departure arrives SEN one minute later than that at 0632, takes 64 minutes and is a direct service! The 0555 departure takes 52 minutes and arrives SEN at 0647.
So in reality you could reasonably rely on arriving by 0647 even if one train was cancelled, which to my mind means catching a flight with an ETD not earlier than 0730, but ideally not before 0745.
Is this satisfactory? No, it patently isn't and Stobarts seem to be finding it extremely difficult to persuade Network Rail that they should open up the line even half an hour earlier to allow an 0600 train arrival at SEN. It must to a degree hurt the AMS, BFS & DUB figures which all have departures before that time.

As far as the roads are concerned, the M25 is 20 minutes drive (plus 200m walk from car park to check-in desk) if you're catching one of the first wave of departures and it's all dual carriageway except the last 1 km. You are correct in saying that you drive through residenial areas to get to SEN; exactly as to do (although even more so) when driving to LTN from the east. Driving times to London are, according to Google, 57 minutes to Docklands, 60 to Bishopsgate, 65 to Chancery Lane and 73 to Marble Arch. There is also a choice of two routes; via the A127 or the A13 should one be blocked by an accident. I don't quite see why anyone would specifically want to get onto the A406 North Circular as part of their journey when they would use the M25 until they reached the appropriate exit.

As you quite rightly say, it all depends on where you live/where your UK destination is as to which LON airport will suit you individually but I would suggest that many more than just "locals" find it the most convenient and quickest departure/arrival route.

Lastly, take a look at a map and you'll see SEN isn't on the North Sea and if IATA (rather than just the airport authority) decide it's a London metropolitan airport then that's good enough for me and probably most travellers.

[HZ123]

Expressflight is correct and its is a shame that some are so negative about any and everything to do with. For many years I had doubts as to what might happen. The airport is up and running and doing OK and will continue to do well.

There is no doubt that STN will in time have to become considerable more competitive than it has been under the BAA protectionism. SEN may well be well established by then and will no doubt respond accordingly.

With regard to road journeys to any of the south east airports they are all prone to serious delays at any time of day. The M 11 is always congested at 'rush hours', as is SEN and the A 127, I think most people add time to give themselves the best possible allowance. That is the only way.

I do think however that at some stage the SEN road entry points must change and a lot needs to happen at the roundabout. The business park and Macdonalds will have to go !

Does anyone know what sort of length of leases are outstanding on the business park and are there plans to purchase it ?

[photoman27]

Southend Airport is no where near the north sea!!!.

[Barling Magna]

I agree with everything you say in that post HZ123.

The retail park, or at least the western end of it, will have to go. Take a look at this old cine film to see a Channel AW Dak taking off on Runway 33.....

Southend Airport 1966 - YouTube

[davidjohnson6]

Express - if Stobart are having great difficulty lobbying for the train line to open earlier, can't they just go for plan B for the time being and get National Express to run a few coaches from Liverpool St station between 4am and 6am with maybe stops in Stratford and Romford en route ?
I know I've mentioned it before, but struggling to understand why nothing is being done about coaches.

[Expressflight]

davidjohnson6

I tend to agree with you on that.

Obviously National Express may not be interested but I'm sure there are other operators who would be if the package offered was financially attractive. It would at least go some way to answering the critics who raise valid points about the lack of early trains.

Perhaps it's a case where they keep feeling they are getting close to movement on track running hours in their negotiations with Network Rail, but never quite get there.

[LTNman]

Lastly, take a look at a map and you'll see SEN isn't on the North Sea

But it's closer to the North Sea than it is to London:}

[Barling Magna]

Surely Boris will have patented the North Sea Airport name for his own fantasy island...? :)