MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.

[dreamjob]

Sad day indeed.

[meggo]

WTF! What a sad day. Joyce is a joke. Stand up to him.

[FJ44]

Unbelievable.
ABC news24 has coverage of questions c

[airman13]

I hope not true.

[dreamjob]

Entire fleet grounded immediately. Excluding Jstar, QLink, Jetconnect.

[kotoyebe]

When do the dogs and balaclavas come out? No wonder Reith stuck his nose in the other day.

What a sad day.

[MACH082]

OMFKG!

Unbelievable....

Words cannot express. What a joke!

[dragon man]

Now the government will have to get involved. The unions will go back to work at some stage and will destroy Joyce from the inside. You can bet he will get a 3 year contract renewal and another big bonus. What a tool!!!

[Short_Circuit]

All because they booed him at the AGM, he is insane. Good one Adolf.

[BigGun]

I just got an SMS about this wtf

[QF81]

Just got SMS, lockout from 8pm (AEDT) 31 Oct.

[KRUSTY 34]

2 words,

IN-SANE !!! :eek:

[kotoyebe]

Cannonball,

You have cut and pasted your post on at least 3 threads so far. Thanks for your wisdom. Now move along...please!

[woollcott]

Whos decision was this? Joyce alone, or did he take advice from elsewhere?
Government will now step in - whose side will they be on?

This is going to cost the country billions of dollars - first casualty the Mebourne cup carnival........

Long term damage to the brand will surely cost hundreds of millions - is it worth it?

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Very poor form Joyce, grow some integrity!!

[QueenBuzzzzz]

Qantas will lockout some employees from 8 pm (AEDT) 31 Oct. Until then, all staff are required at work as per normal. As a precaution, the fleet is grounded. More info available on Staff Travel Online and the intranet soon



F%@k this, I'm going fishing......

[Short_Circuit]

But I thought the engineers union has removed all bans etc. How can they be locked out?

[ejectx3]

This guy is insane and evil

(burn baby burn is playing on radio)

[Blue Sky Baron]

Virgin must be laughing all the way to the bank. :D
BSB

[bentleg]

Well this will certainly bring it to a head. What about the customers stranded overseas? What about staff straneded overseas?

I think Qantas has lost the plot. They have not been competitive for some time and this may mean the death. The union issue has not helped.

[KRUSTY 34]

How the F#KC can Jetstar still operate?

Despite what they may say, Jetstar cannot operate in isolation. Hasn't thought this out very well has he? :}:}:}

[qf 1]

gggggggeeee he was worth that 71 % pay rise

[chuboy]

A fiver says this is the beginning of the end for Qantas...

Sympathy to all you guys who are just trying to make a living.

[kotoyebe]

Got my popcorn out!

Doesn't sound very rational to me. The day before The Cup?

Who are jetstar going to use next week to carry their cancellations??

[John Botwood]

Does Joyce + QANTAS = Dixon + Ansett?

JohnB

[Cookie7]

This guy is insane and evil

Like an African nutbag despot.

"We may have no choice but to take down Qantas part by part" - straight from his b/s on ABC24.

[kotoyebe]

Calls coming into 2UE, and they're blaming Joyce!

[Cookie7]

"we are in lockdown until unions come to an agreement with US!"

Steve, I hope you follow through on your statement of that jail cell at Long Bay jail!

[Pass-A-Frozzo]

Calls coming into 2UE, and they're blaming Joyce!QF Employee's whether they say so or not..

Union leaders said they wanted to 'slow bake' QANTAS. Well it looks like Joyce just threw them into the furnace with an old school lock-out. Unions aren't the only ones who can play that game.


http://www.gifflix.com/files/4326f39cc6e2.gif

[BigGun]

People talking on sky news and bagging the persons on strike, Saying how unions cant dictate management business plans.

WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO KEEPING THINGS AUSTRALIAN.

This is a joke, This is going to screw the WHOLE of Australia.

My poor friend needs to now rebook all her staff on new flight come Monday. This is now not just about staff.

I find it a joke they all got pay rises at the AGM Yesterday.

[Short_Circuit]

Aircraft grounded, this means very soon your job will be gooooone also..:ouch:

[Transition Layer]

Good on you Joycey. You can't legally lock out the Long Haul Pilots. As far as I'm aware, any action by an employer (like a lockout) is only legal if it is considered equal to the action done by the employee. (stand to be corrected on this, only going off what I've heard through AIPA briefings).

The TWU and ALAEA guys have been participating in stop work meetings so a lockout is probably legal in retaliation to these parties. Only problem is that you lockout the AIPA guys by default.

[kotoyebe]

Pass-a-frog,

Mate...where have you been? We've missed you. You must have a hard on with the lockout.

[DJ737]

Yesterday on the October 28th thread I posted this :

There are only two options open to the QANTAS board.........

1 : The unions back down and management win ( This is the most likely scenario)
2 : They close the airline down

there is no 3rd option



It appears I was wrong, QF chose option 2 :hmm:

[Speedlever]

Now is the time for everyone in the Qantas group to shut this little f**ker down. Join forces, everyone, from Jetstar to QLink needs to down tools and bring this evil c**t to his knees.

[Break Right]

DJ737 this not a time to be a smart Assss. pull your head in :mad:

[Hoofharted]

Call the bastards bluff and see how long this prick Joyce really intends to keep this up. Back down now and you will have had your balls cut off.

[kotoyebe]

Speedlever,

They can't legally do that. The company would rightly take them to the cleaners. They are not in dispute with QF.

[psycho joe]

It's a true fact, that no matter where you are in the world, if you stop and listen very carefully you can hear the barely muffled shuffle of John Borghetti doing the happy dance.

Doin the happy dance...doin the happy dance.

[Pass-A-Frozzo]

From Fair Work Australia:

Employers may lock out their employees (that is, refusing to allow them to work or to pay them).So is QANTAS ceasing the salaries of those locked-out?

UPDATE: Just saw Joyce say that employees locked out will not be permitted at work and will NOT be payed

[Anulus Filler]

On behalf of Mr Borghetti, thank you Mr Joyce. Played into this beautifully. Desperate act from a desperate management. You wouldn't of pulled this act on a Monday morning in December....Now look at what the public think of management...IDIOTS!

[Short_Circuit]

Why announce this Saturday and not Friday,
bypass the ASX Announcement needed till Monday and have Julia run to his side Sunday.. and get those bad unions that are actually not on strike.

[maxspeed]

Well that just made me hurry up and book my VB flights back to NZ next week!

[Higs]

Never thought I'd see the day! Unfortunatually those staff thinking that the Australian public will care about you. You are wrong, it will only be about their travel plans.

[Flying Frypan]

What are the companys options? If and how can Jetstar et al come to the rescue? Can anyone from across the ditch fly in Oz?? Is there any possible plan B for Joyce??
Seems like a very extreme decision, surely Qantas have something up their sleeves??

[DJ737]

this not a time to be a smart Assss. pull your head in

Not being a smart ass, apologies if it came over that way :uhoh:

Fact is those were the two options available to QF.

[Short_Circuit]

Just saw Joyce say that employees locked out will not be permitted at work and will NOT be payed

Is there any possible plan B for Joyce??Yes, let QF die and take the bank account and RUN


PAF
Yes. and we would not expect to be paid for work not carried out unlike the trough snorters.

[Seabreeze]

if Jetstar pilots don't go out in sympathy, then Qf flights will simply be replaced by Jetstar and Virgin (domestically) and whoever (internationally) as far as is possible .... and Management will hope AIPA ALEAA and TWU workers can be starved out..

If Jetstar pilots do go out in Sympathy, the game is ramped up. Will you?

We note that Joyce will make sure he himself is paid through this.

[Buster Hyman]

It's how Ansett's Unions were broken...drastic, but I bet that's the outcome he's looking for. :ugh:

[campdoag]

How can they lock out the short haul pilots??? I didn't think they were in dispute.

[OverRun]

Watching the news, plan B comes to the front of mind.

No more Qantas.

[manfred]

Several posts from journalists on that tweeting website saying now the federal government is going to intervene in the dispute

[kotoyebe]

How can they lock out the short haul pilots??? I didn't think they were in dispute.

They're not in dispute, so therefore they will be paid for NOT flying aircraft.

Clever, isn't he?

[bentleg]

the federal government is going to intervene in the dispute

I agree re intervention. But what will/can they do?

[ohallen]

Just reported that QF had discussions with Oneworld partners and booked massive numbers of hotel rooms before AGM.

Seems they are also prepared to mislead the shareholders if that was the case.

Never have I seen such an appalling management team with a Board that would now be hard justified claiming they are acting in the interests of shareholders.

Disgraceful on every front.

[The PM]

So what % of shareholders is required to call for an EGM? More to the point, this course of action is not thought up on a whim, as seems to be what is being claimed.Why was this not announced yesterday at the AGM?
It's one thing to cause minor inconvenience, it's another to shut the shop completely.Joyce and the board need to be grilled.

[Break Right]

Noted DJ737 no need for the Bleeding obvious. Prays and thoughts out to all involved.

[QF94]

This is why the little turd was smirking yesterday at the AGM. This was planned. He didn't wake up this morning and make a snap decision. This was planned ages ago and left till after his pay rise was approved by the institutions and then cost the company $140million a week.

I'll bet those that voted in favour of the resolutions yesterday are Doh'ing today.

Nationalise the airline and oust this bad dozen of eggs.

Who's taking IA now?

[kotoyebe]

*At 6 pm the federal government said it was making an urgent application to Fair Work Australia to order an immediate cessation of industrial action by all parties on the ground of the national interest

The above is from Ben Sandilands site. Joyce has played the Government like a fiddle and right into his hands. I can only think this was maybe his last roll of the dice. Be interesting if FWA rejects the Governments application. If they do, QF better have enough money for my redundancy cheque.

[woollcott]

AJ says he is grounding fleet due to union action.........

So wearing a red tie and making an announcement is grounds for grounding the fleet?????????????

[RENURPP]

RSSLatest News
Qantas responds to industrial action
Sydney, 29 October 2011
Qantas today announced that, from 8pm AEDT on Monday 31 October 2011, it will lock out all employees who will be covered by the industrial agreements currently being negotiated with the Australian Licenced Engineers Union (ALAEA), the Transport Workers Union (TWU) and the Australian and International Pilots Union (AIPA).
This step is being taken under the provisions of the Fair Work Act in response to industrial action taken by these unions. The financial impact of action taken to date has reached $68 million and the action is costing Qantas approximately $15 million per week in lost revenue. Approximately 70,000 passengers have been affected and more than 600 flights cancelled.
Pilots, licenced engineers and baggage, ground and catering staff are essential to Qantas operations and the lock-out will therefore make it necessary for all Qantas aircraft to be grounded. For precautionary reasons, this will take place immediately (as at 5pm AEDT, Saturday 29 October 2011).
Aircraft currently in the air will complete the sectors they are operating. However, there will be no further Qantas domestic departures or international departures anywhere in the world. This will have an estimated financial impact on Qantas of $20 million per day.
The lock-out will continue until the ALAEA, the TWU and AIPA drop the extreme demands that have made it impossible for agreements to be reached.
Jetstar flights, QantasLink flights and Qantas flights across the Tasman operated by Jetconnect will continue. Express Freighters Australia and Atlas Freighters will also continue to operate.
Requirements for employees are as follows:
- Until the lock-out commences, all employees are required at work as normal and will be paid.
- Once the lock-out commences:
- employees who are locked out will not be required at work and will not be paid.
- employees working overseas will not be locked out and will continue to be paid.
- all other employees are required at work and will be paid as normal.
Customers booked on Qantas flights should not go to the airport until further notice. A full refund will be available to any customer who chooses to cancel their flight because it has been directly affected by the grounding of the fleet. Full rebooking flexibility will be available to customers who wish to defer their travel.
Assistance with accommodation and alternative flights, as well as other support, will be offered to customers who are mid-journey.
Customers should monitor qantas.com for the latest updates. The latest information will also be posted on Qantas’ Twitter and Facebook accounts.
Only customers travelling within the next 24 hours should call Qantas contact centres (on 13 13 13).
Qantas regrets that this action has become necessary and apologises sincerely to all affected passengers.
Issued by Qantas Corporate Communication (5218)
Email: [email protected]

An interesting week ahead.

[manfred]

Under the FWA they can order qf back into the air, and also order the unions to cease all industrial action, i guess

Im not a lawyer so dont quote me on it

[stewser89]

The minister will apply for a cessation under Fair Work Australia. He will most likely get it, but the problem is it will make action by the Unions illegal as well. Essentially Joyce holds the company, the staff, the government and th travelling public to ransom and profits from it.

Joyce must go, there is no other option. He has taken a once trusted, respected and iconic brand and driven it into the ground. His actions have now disenfranchised the workers and he is now reaping what he sows.

[billyt]

As all this has obviously been arranged prior to the AGM then I would hope the ASX would take an interest in events. Shareholders must have listened to statements about the future of the company that are now incorrect. AN EGM needs to be called to challenge management firstly over their behavior at the AGM then about the grounding.

[OverRun]

FWA needs someone with balls. With regrets I must advise that Julia has no balls (it's a medical thing) and the first bloke doesn't either (lifestyle choice)

[CaptR]

Joyce just wants the Govt to do his dirty work for him. He has such poor form when you look at his resume - nothing to be proud of. Govt should simply support VB and also allow SQ to fly domestic - counter strategy...

The issue of having an AGM and misleading shareholders (of which I am one) must be investigated by ASIC - this grounding was not planned in the last 24hrs!!!!

Have to fly next week - just changed to VB - time to sell my worthless shares and buy some in VB.

The start of the end for QF!

[Nose wheel first]

Why announce this Saturday and not Friday,
bypass the ASX Announcement needed till Monday and have Julia run to his side Sunday.


Exactly Short Circuit!

Wouldn't surprise me if AJ and Juliar had already had words and come up with a plan of action.

What about AFAP unionised pilots? What about other workers in non-affected unions? Or indeed non-unionised staff?

For QF to pull out the endgame this early on in the peace reaks of complete and utter desperation!

To all my friends in QF.... make that EVERYONE in QF... except AJ and co... take care and hang in there. We're right behind you... All the way!

Depending on the outcome of this ugly situation, will a fighting fund somehow be made available to staff with mortgages etc?

[34R]

Just astounding.

Personally I think it's the only way he could guarantee gov. intervention. They will do their best, under the guise of protecting national infrastructure, of overturning the FWA framework as is applicable to this case, and to overnight render the PIA no longer protected.

It's a union busting move, plain and simple. Despite the fact I wont be paid from Monday, I hope AIPA and others concerned call the bluff.

We just got notified the lock out is in response to the P.A's we have been making and the red ties we have been wearing.
Don't worry about DAMP training for pilots, somebody should send a car to the Irishman's house for an immediate drug test - has he lost the plot!!

Hold firm guys and girls

[ryanboxer]

1 a/c lined up, 2 holding short, all told to return to gate

[Wally Mk2]

I agree 'QF94' the little man had something up his sleeve all along. He's got another 'tool' in his bag of tricks called the Govt. 'Julia' is Bob Hawke reincarnated!!! Watch it guys the goose didn't get to where he is 2day by being clever, he's just cunning & has no pulse.

A new day in Australian Aviation has dawned sadly there's no sunshine in it!:sad:.
My heart goes out to all those who love working for Qantas & are proud, for the name that is, not the fool at the top!

Wmk2

[Going Nowhere]

Executive and Board won't be paid during lock out...

Oh, how thoughtful of them! :yuk:

[Captain.Que]

If these circumstances are protracted the suffering to employees and travellers will be enormous.This has to be be one of the saddest days in Australian aviation history.The ramifications of this decision will be felt for decades

[Gigaboomer]

Really sorry to see this development guys, corporate greed gone mad. Unfortunately this sickness is not unique to Qantas, we have plenty up here at Cathay as well!

You are all in my thoughts and prayers.

[Jethro Gibbs]

A Statement from the ALAEA Where is it ?

[parabellum]

Damage to the Melbourne Cup is unlikely as there is a lot of capacity out there.

Sad that out of the total number of responses in this thread so many are just pure, vitriolic invective and nothing more, QF employees?

Gillard is in a tight spot, she may be obliged to go against all her deeply inbred union pinciples. Great opportunity for her to redeem some of her lost reputation, she was asked to intervene and didn't, now she may have to.

lly sorry to see this development guys, corporate greed gone mad. Unfortunately this sickness is not unique to Qantas, we have plenty up here at Cathay as well!

You are all in my thoughts and prayers.

Oh God, preserve us from the deaf and blind!

[ozangel]

So, what would actually happen if everyone decided to ignore the govt intervening?

[OverRun]

There is no protracted - the money isn't there to make it protracted. It is fixed quick or dead.

[forever flying]

Virgin Australia in talks with alliance partners to gain some assistance and also going to be offering a "stranded passenger" fare for those with a QF ticket.

[Ticking Timebomb]

Next engagement survey will be a beauty.
20 million dollar loss a day due to fleet grounded compared to 14 million a week. And who is killing Qantas ?

The fuse is lit.

[22k]

Albanese basically just said he reckons the board planned this before today. Ie, he said it was very suspect that they did this straight after the AGM.

[Airbornespanner]

1) employees are after job security (nothing is secure these days!!!) but is always possible.

2) CEO security not possible either but $5.5 million PA (or what ever it is) after a few years why worry !!!!!!:D

[manfred]

Anthony Albanese on abc24 just very heavily implied that he believes the board made this decision prior to this morning

He seems to be upset with qf actions today

[LAME2]

ALAEA notice?? I would expect they do not have the time at the moment to put together a notice.

Stay calm and be patient. We're on a journey that Joyce has mapped out over the last three years since our last stouch.

It probably has a while to run yet.

[3 Holer]

This is not new. Ansett and Australian management did the same thing in '89.
Qantas PR are also copying the tactics used in '89 - bad unions, holding hard working Australians to ransom, etc,. etc,.
Difference here is the unions are carrying on with legal, protected industrial action sanctioned by Fair Work Australia.
Once the Airline starts locking out workers and pleading with the Government to step in, you KNOW they are on the back foot. They are losing this one and know it and are trying on shock tactics with the unions. They won't buy it and neither does the Government by the sound of Albanese.

[The Voice]

there is no way in this wide world that any action such as this presently in train would have been concocted, planned and put into action without any legal advice having been sought, double checked and then the double check being double checked again. This would have taken time and not just something thrown together this morning.

[ZKSTF]

One word.

"Stunned"

[bubble.head]

There was a post here on another thread that stated the minister and Joyce had a meeting sometime last week. I have a feeling that this was all planned out and the minister knew some part of the plan before today.

[1a sound asleep]

PRIME Minister Julia Gillard will intervene in the Qantas dispute, launching an emergency application to force the airline's grounded planes back in the air.

If successful, the Gillard government will secure a ruling by the national workplace relations tribunal Fair Work Australia to force Qantas and the unions to cease all industrial action.

[Howard Hughes]

Interesting press conference with Minister Albanese on ABC News 24, referenced the heavy handedness of Qantas given the minimum action taken by long haul pilots.

[SimonBl]

Albanese does not sound AT ALL impressed. He stated that the only industrial action that the pilots are taking is to not wear their hats & make PA's to customers - he strongly implied that Qantas's action today is not commensurate to the union action.

"A breach of faith with the government" - Tom Albanese

[MACH082]

Sounds like the government is pissed.

Let's hope the government buys it and sacks the board.

[stewser89]

It won't drag out that long or you won't be in a job. The company can't sustain a loss for that long.

However much damage has been caused by all the IA and the safety scare, the damage done by this will be much, much, much worse. This is a bastard, dog act by the QF board especially considering the timing.

I must admit I half supported the expansion into asia. As much as I hated it as a pilot and an Australian, it made business sense, sorta. I now believe that this can only result in either the collapse of Qantas or the Resignation/dismissal of Joyce.

[OverRun]

Antony Albanese has been pontificating on the TV. Bumbling idiot. At least he doesn't change.

[KRUSTY 34]

In closing Albenese called QANTAS's "sudden action" a "breach of faith"!

[Eddie Bauer]

Time for the aviation industry unions to talk to the MUA as this is playing out very similar to the waterfront dispute of 98. Wharfies ended up back on the job after a protracted lockout albeit with some changes to T & C.
Hopefully this isn't the end play to break the airline apart for private buyout but the board have had a long time to plan this and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if this happened. Sad day indeed.

[SimonBl]

OverRun, to the contrary, in my opinion Tom Albanese was the best I have ever seen him.

[Howard Hughes]

Antony Albanese has been pontificating on the TV. Bumbling idiot. At least he doesn't change.
Were you watching the same press conference as me? :rolleyes:

I hate the man with a passion, but it's probably the first time I have ever heard him say anything that I agree with!

Good to hear both Barry Jackson and now Richard Woodward commenting in a calm and rational manner.:ok:

[OverRun]

This thing ain't gonna fix. Has anyone stood up with a solution? TV is full of half-wits with plenty of hand wringing and pointing the finger - apart from that - nothing ! No fix in sight.

Been through [caught up in] the Ansett debacle, and I learned then that the unthinkable is possible. I'd been thinking for the last few weeks that Qantas is working towards closure, and that's suddenly getting very much closer.

[Desert Flower]

From the Adelaide Advertiser:

High-cost kangaroo of Qantas cannot continue, says Dick Smith

I ALWAYS fly Qantas when going overseas because I can afford it. But most of my friends don't, because they can't.I am amazed Qantas International is still in business. It's a credit to everyone involved.
But it's obvious that unless CEO Alan Joyce is allowed to make huge changes, the whole airline will go broke.

I can't understand why the unions don't get that.

Our skies have been opened up to cheaper foreign carriers. Our leaders - and we, the people - have chosen lower globalised prices, which can only be sustained by lower globalised wages.

If Qantas International doesn't get globalised wages it will go out of business.

That said, we can pay decent Australian wages to pilots - if they work the same number of hours in the cockpit as their Aussie pilot mates at Emirates, Etihad and elsewhere.

However, a greater percentage of cabin crew will have to be employed on global wages.

And while those employed in Australia to maintain its domestic fleet should be OK, an increased proportion of the maintenance for the international flights will have to be done offshore.

I have a number of aircraft and I have had to stop in Singapore and Dubai to have maintenance done.

The maintenance has been just as good - because the supervisors are Australian or are British. The actual workers are from the Philippines and they get paid roughly half the wage available here.

Consider this - about 30 per cent of an airline's costs are labour. Halving the labour costs means you can reduce your total costs by 15 per cent.

A typical airline's profit margin is 5 per cent, so you can see the difference a 15 per cent reduction in costs can make.

I do understand the unions seeing an unfairness in powerful groups such as the legal fraternity and politicians protecting their Australian wages and conditions while saying to typical workers, "Bad luck - you have to compete". If I was a Qantas worker, I would help management save every dollar and be as productive as possible - otherwise I'd know my job was doomed.

Dick Smith is a businessman and former chairman of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority

[MACH082]

I was impressed with Albanese.

Me thinks this will spawn legions of royal commissions, senate enquiries, parliament question times etc.

I think AJ has shot himself in the foot.

Hold out folks!

[SimonBl]

I can't understand why Perth flights are apparently being cancelled when the lockout doesn't occur until Monday morning.

[MACH082]

simon,

They don't want someone doing their nut and buying the farm :(

[Airbornespanner]

Pride cometh before a fall !!!!!!!!!!

[OverRun]

Perth? It is currently over run with Canberra-types due to CHOGM. Rather amused that the flights have shut down - I could lend them my bicycle to go home with. Take some water . . . . . .

[chuboy]

Heheh, Alan Joyce is copping an earful on T-witter.

https://twitter.com/#!/alanjoyce/status/114377194041638912

Too bad it's a different guy... poor bloke.

[POT100]

Well done Qantas Board - you've just made the biggest mistake in its 90 year history!!..Talk about shooting yourself in both feet!!..Running to the Government because you can't talk to unions - grow some backbone!!!!..
Lets face it folks, this fight is between the union bashing Chairman against 35000 loyal employees.AJ is the puppet..

My congats to the 1.5 billion shareholders who voted for these Meglomaniacs in yesterdays AGM..Well done Institutional Investor Fund Managers..

To pull this stunt just after the AGM - Nice move LC and Co.

[parabellum]

Parabellum, seriously, your trying to pick a religious fight now?



No, not at all. Time to get real. QANTAS is a very small airline with considerable influence within Australia, that is Australia, with a population less than the metropolitan area of Los Angeles.

In the great big scheme of things this is a storm in a tea cup.

[OverRun]

Storm in a middy -we don't drink tea.

[QueenBuzzzzz]

Flights have been grounded today as a precautionary measure due to the lockout announcement commencing on Monday.

[SimonBl]

Mach082, thanks but I don't understand why the lockout is from Monday, yet flights are obviously (confirmed, people are being virtually being kicked off flights this afternoon) being cancelled now. Why not say it's being grounded now? This is absolutely bizarre.

Okay, thanks QueenBzzzz. I get it now. People will be even more pissed now.

[ramble on]

"The government should buyback Qantas"....now there's an idea.

And perhaps at the same time buy back everything else that belongs to us that were sold off by previous governments to create budget surplus.

Australia has been raped pillaged and destroyed by big business and is mired in a lack of infrastructure 50 years behind its population.

Too much of that which should belong to the people is held for profit making of a few.

When you buy back Qantas, buy back the public airports, the airways, the roads, essential utilities and transport systems, run them for the people, not for profit.

[QueenBuzzzzz]

Jetstar, Qantaslink, Atlas etc to continue normal operations.....

[Captain Gidday]

Well, now we know why Qantas cancelled their participation in the conciliation hearings due about now. When did they cancel, ten days or so ago was it?

[QueenBuzzzzz]

They are using the terms "grounded" and "locked out" as two totally different terms. They need to ground ASAP due to emotional response. Will this buy them more time with the government intervention? Sounds like they knew an intervention was imminent when making this decision. Sorry, just relaying info from Crew Voice....

[T28D]

History repeats itself this is a re run of the Robe lockout 1986 and the outcome of that was not pretty for the unions.

Certainly now the industrial laws are somewhat different , but in the end the shareholders will win if they hold their nerve.

The courts must endorse "management has the right to manage" as a fundamental legal principle.

This dispute will come down to who has the deepest pockets.

[600ft-lb]

Mach082, thanks but I don't understand why the lockout is from Monday, yet flights are obviously (confirmed, people are being virtually being kicked off flights this afternoon) being cancelled now. Why not say it's being grounded now? This is absolutely bizarre.

It's because the management of the company believe that Qantas staff, although entrusted with multi hundred million dollar machines and thousands of lives daily, they can't be trusted to act professionally when they know they will be locked out.

The management have to protect the assets in case they need to be liquidated - or so their theory would seem to go.

[SimonBl]

Richard Woodwood is presenting himself very, very well on ABC News 24. If nothing else, this is getting some people air time that should have had it weeks ago.

[Slippery_Pete]

Now who is the kamikaze, Alan?

Ter be sure, ter be sure...

[kimwestt]

If the CP, Fleet Mgrs etc locked out, not able to do their job, what price CASA would suspend the AOC? That would get eveybody's attention!!

[equilibrium2212]

Joyce is fiddling while QANTAS and its workers (all its workers if he pursues this course), not to mention the passengers, burn. Like other dictators before him, his delusions delude him into blaming employees for "trashing the brand".

Stick together and call his bluff people! :D

[SimonBl]

And then on the other hand, you have an idiot like Geoffrey Thomas on now. Geez, you'd think he flies for free the way he carries on defending Qantas.

[Livs Hairdresser]

How do you say 'hari kari' in gaelic?

[Luke SkyToddler]

They think it's '89 again and it isn't, the damage has been done with the open skies agreements. No need for sc@b labour etc etc to get the pax moving, EK SQ CX and the rest will happily move in and grab all the pax without even breaking a sweat. Big early christmas present for DJ as well.

I don't reckon he even wants gov't intervention at all, he actually wants it shut down for good, close the bank account and gut the parts so he can realize his grand dream of moving the whole operation lock stock and barrel to Asia.

What a black day

[SimonBl]

Peter Reith's now on the phone on the TV, totally regurgitating the Qantas line. Makes me, as a non-union loving person, sick.

[Short_Circuit]

I don't understand why the lockout is from Monday, yet flights are obviously (confirmed, people are being virtually being kicked off flights this afternoon) being canceled now. And the media winge when engineers take a 1 hour stop work meeting and have to give qantas 3 days notice BUT Qantas cancel ALL FLIGHTS with NO NOTICE, :mad::mad::mad::ugh::ugh::ugh::mad::mad::mad:

WTF Julia

[QueenBuzzzzz]

They are adamant that there is no other action an employer can take other than employee lockout.... they have decided this after seeking legal advice. They are adamant that this is this only course of action they could have taken.

[Ixixly]

US Census Bureau says the Population of Los Angeles County is 9,818,605, Australian Population currently approximately 22,546,000, just thought i'd point it out... In the great big scheme of things this isn't a storm in a teacup, losing one battle like this only seeks to embolden others like Alan Joyce out there and strengthen their own thoughts that they are above everyone and don't need to show any kind of Conscience or Morals when dealing with their employees.

Hopefully this will all come tumbling down for Alan Joyce and finally show people like him that if their going to continue to cry poor and demand higher wages for themselves whilst putting others out of jobs and refusing even the simple increases they'd better have something to show for it other than that they can grease their buddies up and get them to vote their way and tell all their employees who made them all that money to just put up and shut up.

You want to bring God into this? How would God feel about someone so morally bankrupt and greedy, someone who obviously lies to achieve his own goals?

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

And STILL, the
'Irishman' is toikin about soivoival oif the coimpany......

And, on ABC National it was stated this arvo Perth time, that QANTAS has pre-booked hotels all over the planet - LAST WEEK!! - to accommodate this course of action.......

So, it HAS BEEN PLANNED for..... PRIOR to the AGM.......

:ugh::ugh::{:{:mad::mad:

[Worrals in the wilds]

Holy cow. :eek:
If it wasn't already obvious, it shows what little regard Qantas management has for their customers, to throw people off aircraft with no notice in the middle of a weekend. The unions gave plenty of warning about upcoming disruptions. This is like the world's biggest Christmas baggie snap strike.

Of course most of the Australian Public Service still flies Qantas (Why, when there are two major airlines? Question for another time :hmm:). This will impact on the government's operations as well. All this after a $500 million dollar profit...yeah, they're hurting. Really hurting.

All the best, guys/gals.
How do you say 'hari kari' in gaelic?

How about póg mo thóin, or 'kiss my arse' in English. That's the message to the passengers.

[Keg]

If the CP, Fleet Mgrs etc locked out, not able to do their job, what price CASA would suspend the AOC? That would get eveybody's attention!!

Supervisories and senior checks not locked out. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if a number of the senior checks resign though!

[SimonBl]

Dick Smith now on ABC News 24 <sigh>

Bugger it, there's no point in trying to 'report' on what Dick's saying.

[Mr.Buzzy]

I don't believe you said "cuckoo land" Dick Smith!!!!

Bbbbbbzbzbzbzbzbzbz

[QueenBuzzzzz]

Qantaslink are still going with normal ops... that should get the pollys home in bed tonight :hmm:

Wonder if Jetstar will "borrow" any grounded fleet to get the pax moving? :hmm:

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

FWA hearing at 10pm tonight.

[The The]

This move has been in play for weeks. Yesterday Joyce was talking up the airline at the AGM, domestic best for business yada yada....., please give me more money!

Qantas should have been in a trading halt yesterday, before the AGM.

Someone please call ASIC. The guy and the board should be in jail.!

[caneworm]

What's been worrying me for a long time now is that the lil' tacker MUST win this at any cost.
It's not about the money, ie his money. If he wins he gets "x dollars", if he loses he gets "x dollars minus 5%", there's bugger all in it.
Why must he win?
He's still young with plenty of CEO life left in him. If he loses this he won't get a job as CEO of a toilet paper factory let alone another airline and if he has to, he will destroy this airline.
He won't be remembered as the guy who killed Qantas, he'll be remembered as the guy who busted up the unions.
The govt does not want to get involved. If they side with the unions, there's no more Grange/Ipads/upgrades or free Chairmans Lounge memberships. If they side with Qantas they alienate the electorate. Gillard, Albanese et all are locked in the bedroom with the blankets pulled up over their heads hoping & praying that this thing will go away.

[forever flying]

Dick Smith avoiding the question of whether or not AJ made the right decision to pull this 3 hours after informing the government. :ugh:

[LongTimeInCX]

I don't even work for the little mongrel, but sad to see what he's done to a good brand.
If nothing else, the 71% pay rise can be used to fix his teeth,
Does the man have no self respect displaying a woeful set of gnashers like that?
Good luck guys. I hope he falls flat on his little green @rse.

[Short_Circuit]

Dick Smith

I apologizes for my comment as I misheard your comment.

I retract this statement and await your next comment.

SC

[simsalabim]

"In order to save the village we had to destroy it."
American major after the destruction of the Vietnamese Village Ben Tre

[600ft-lb]

Still resonating with me is the image

Of a foreigner

Telling Australian's one of their institutions is no longer going to operate because he doesn't want it to

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/files/2009/11/Alan_Joyce-600x398.jpg

[nig&nog]

Looks like jetstar will be the winner here and smells like that was the plan all along as I read all these posts. Even tiger will get a win out of this.

[ohallen]

There is no doubt this was preplanned and even the Govt was deceived BIG TIME.

Lets hope the GOVT ramps regulatory review of every act of this lot and puts them all in handcuffs.

There is also hypocrisy in asking abandoned passengers to jump on a Jetstar jet so ALL consumers should resist that urge now because that is what they want you to do.

Lets also hope Jetstar staff are getting good advice about what they do from here.

Shameful day and shameful deceptions by QF Executives who presumably got all their Board home before this debacle was started, sorry implemented.

The only person in this lot who has any integirty it the Company Secretary who obviously knew and bailed. Lets hope ASIC nail her as their first witness.

[juliusg]

Why the snap action - a weeks notice would allow CUSTOMERS to complete travel. Oh - passengers are CUSTOMERS?

[Takan Inchovit]

Dick Smith is banging on again against unions, no logical explanation why AJ grounded ALL aircraft. Dick admits he flies with QF when he can, I bet he does not pay for that. He is another millionaire ****** that does not understand what he is bagging or why.

Why does he not get his chopper service in asia? NO, in Dubai

He is promoting buy Australia but condoning off shoring all Qantas jobs.

Wasn't Dick involved with qantas 10 years ago and stuffed that up?

Very good point Shorts, I thought Dick was all for Australian only too! :hmm:

[QF94]

Still resonating with me is the image

Of a foreigner

Telling Australian's one of their institutions is no longer going to operate because he doesn't want it to

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/files/2009/11/Alan_Joyce-600x398.jpg

Hopefully the next photo we see of this turd is one with all his teeth missing and a couple of black shiners. I normally wouldn't wish this upon anybody, but he has certainly crossed the line with his deceit, pay rise and virtual closing of an airline. To hell with him and the board. This is in no way a death threat to the little man should he misconstrue it as one.

[Slippery_Pete]

Still resonating with me is the image

Of a foreigner

Telling Australian's one of their institutions is no longer going to operate because he doesn't want it to

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/files/2009/11/Alan_Joyce-600x398.jpg

I'm with 600ft.

[SimonBl]

ohallen, yes, I did wonder about that yesterday when Mr Clifford announced it. "For health reasons" is always a convenient statement. Of course, it may be true.

TWU on ABC News 24 now, at a news conference, and has said that there had only been 6 hours of industrial action over the last 7 months from the TWU.

That's hardly commensurate, in anyone's books.

[Bug4514]

The unions,pilots and engineers will all fold. AJ has them by the balls and they have no other path but to take what he gives them or just walk out.
Who will hold out the longest.
I hope its not AJ.

[600ft-lb]

http://memegenerator.net/cache/instances/400x/10/10737/10995055.jpg

[multime]

Remanants of Ansett and IRA?

[Anulus Filler]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kzcveyR0m11qzip9co1_500.gif

[hoss]

Fella's, if you don't mind could you please delete the pictures before half of us smash in our iPhones. Cheers in advance.

[denabol]

Plane talking has been live blogging most of this including Albanese boring it up Joyce.

Richard Woodward for the union has said Qantas was planning this weeks ago with massive hotel bookings and talks with Cathay Pacific about extra flights.

Sandilands says including lost sales and finance costs for non-operating fleet Qantas is pissing $40 million a day against the wall. They have $3 billion in cash.

Woodward casts doubts on Joyce's mental stability.

Far out.

[Blue Sky Baron]

"You can't just turn an airline on and off" - Quote from Olivia not so long ago.
Well darling it seems your boss has proved you so very wrong, are you going to apologise to everyone you bagged now? I bet you don't! :ugh:

On another point, I bet Slater and Gordon are salivating at the thought of 108plane loads of passengers joining a class action for breach of contract or similar. :=

BSB

[Oakape]

If history is anything to go by, the EK recruitment roadshow will be turning up any day now.

[Short_Circuit]

I hear qantas has contracted a freight agent to move massive amounts of "stuff" out of Australia to Asia.
It is done and dusted. If I can supply more I will try.
Sounds just like Ansett over again with the same names.
Can anyone confirm?

Woodward casts doubts on Joyce's mental stability.
So do we :sad:

[Cargo744]

Go Steve!! You're the best asset that Joyce ever had. You're actions at the AGM were truly brilliant. Have fine on the dole que.

SP =Performing Monkey missing his symbols and drums

[BoatsNHos]

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2011/10/28/1226179/944611-111029-alan-joyce.jpg

Qantas CEO Alan Joyce, left, and chairman Leigh Clifford share a moment of levity at yesterday's fraught AGM in Sydney. Picture: Alan Pryke Source: The Australian

[ozangel]

Meanwhile in (comparitive) paradise - Borghetti has emailled each Cabin Supervisor personally to advise that he's listened to feedback and has made the decision to put the 5th crew member back on all flights below 1h40m (so I hear).

[PPRuNeUser0161]

The government need to release Qantas from the shackles and let it compete in the real world. Lots of shareholders expect their company to be able to respond to competition in a competitive way.

SN

[parabellum]

less than the metropolitan area of Los Angeles

metropolitan , i.e. 17 million, not 22 but close.

[SimonBl]

In some of the footage from Sydney airport, there was at least one red tail without the white kangaroo. Should I read anything into that?

[dasilva11]

How about this?


<a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=2e3wdcp" target="_blank"><img src="http://i40.tinypic.com/2e3wdcp.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>

[FNQcrew]

Albanese is full of crap. His staff were briefed yesterday afternoon (fact) but they were told it was to happen Monday. QF did surprise them by bringing it forward to today.
Cabin Crew Management are currently available for cabin crew questions in LAX and SIN, coincidence they just happen to be there? Not!

[Takan Inchovit]

At least Virgin are being proactive in starting to deal with extra flights etc, wonder if J* will be at all helpful with this!

[blackhander]

SimonBI

In some of the footage from Sydney airport, there was at least one red tail without the white kangaroo. Should I read anything into that?

I think it's the 767 freighter it has a red tail with no rat

[Snail Dave]

Been in the industry for 25 years.

I'm not a pilot.

I have been flying QF loyally for over a decade.

I have very good friends and family in the airline and feel very sad for them. My late father gave his best years to the airline.

I have visited this site from time to time for over a decade, but generally, it's all the same whingers bitching about the same old stuff, so I don't post much. However:

It wouldn't matter whether it was Joyce, Borghetti, Branson, Dixon or John Travolta, the dinosaurs in Australian Aviation would blame everyone BUT themselves for this outcome. People on here will whinge about him eternally, but history will show that Joyce had the balls to kick the unions in the teeth and make the required changes to maintain a healthy bottom line and grow the business, which is precisely his job (nothing else).

Most people here will bitch and moan about the poor management, bringing down an icon, not having a clue, etc, but it's easy to slag off all and sundry sitting behind a laptop, and I doubt any of the 'experts' that visit here would put their hand up for the top job; and I certainly don't claim to be worthy either. I neither like or dislike Joyce, but I do admire his resilience and tenacity and he is a business man after all. And everyone seems to forget that we (Aussies) are not immune to global forces. Fail to adapt and you lose.

The union fools wanted to play with fire; well, pony up fellas, it's time to get into the kitchen. Apart from friends and relatives of mine at QF, the people I feel most sorry for are the younger guys and gals who just want to work for the airline and couldn't give a toss about the poltics, and would be happy to forgo some of the ridiculous, greedy union demands.

Borghetti must be laughing and will certainly be ready for the fallout.

I hope all the 'untouchables' in the unions have got alternative skills and beefy resumes - they might come in handy. For those that were so arrogant they thought they'd never need them; whoops!

I sincerely hope it works itself out, but whatever happens, the goal posts have shifted forever. And if the worst happens; a heads up; there is no such thing as job security; welcome to the 21st century.

Now, slag this post off til your hearts are content; no need for me to come back and respond to the garbage that will follow.

Nighty night.

SD

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Be interesting to see if the states will allow the lifting of curfews tonight to let VB and J* fly later???

SN

[neville_nobody]

Dick Smith making alot of sense on ABC News 24

[ShiteRider]

Yep, -EFR the 76 freighter. Business as usual for those guys.

[Howard Hughes]

On another point, I bet Slater and Gordon are salivating at the thought of 108plane loads of passengers joining a class action for breach of contract or similar.
Shareholders who were obvioulsy duped at yesterdays meeting may very well be joining the queue!:ooh:

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Snail-Dave
You hit the nail right on the head!

SN

[AlphaLord]

Fair Work Australia will hold an urgent hearing at 10pm (AEDT) tonight in Melbourne to deal with the Qantas dispute.
Qantas has grounded its entire fleet and is locking out its staff in response to industrial action by three unions.
The airline has grounded its 108 aircraft around the world indefinitely.
The Federal Government wants the industrial umpire to intervene.
The section of the Fair Work Act under which the Government is making its application would enable Fair Work Australia to issue an order to suspend or terminate industrial action if it is satisfied the action would threaten "personal safety, or the health, or welfare, of the population ... or cause significant damage to the Australian economy".
Under the section, the application must be determined within five days.
If FWA is unable to determine the application in that time it must make an interim order until the application can be determined.
The hearing will be video-linked to FWA's registry in Sydney.
The Federal Government was told about the Qantas move just three hours before the grounding.
Transport Minister Anthony Albanese says it is extraordinary action for Qantas to take just one day after its AGM.
ABC/wires

[Stiff Under Carriage]

I'm afraid I have to agree with Snail Dave and Dick Smith as neville_nobody says. He was making a lot of sense. Probably not what most will want to here but....

[Short_Circuit]

Slow Dave

Borghetti left QF because he knew what was coming and he did not agree with it. He knows what AJ & LC are planning (along with all of Australia now) he left and is in a position to reap the rewards of his move.

[Ka.Boom]

Qantas' decision to ground the entire Qantas fleet is "holding a knife to the nation's throat" and CEO Alan Joyce has "gone mad", the Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA) says.
AIPA vice president Richard Woodward said the move was "premeditated, unnecessary and grossly irresponsible".
"Alan Joyce is holding a knife to the nation's throat," Captain Woodward said.

"No-one predicted this, because no one thought Alan Joyce was completely mad.
"This is a stunning overreaction. It is straight-up blackmail.
"I knew he was trying to kill Qantas, but I didn't know he wanted to do it this quickly.
"This is a grave and serious situation and the board should move to sack Mr Joyce immediately. This is the saddest day of my 25 years with Qantas."
He said AIPA's industrial action has been limited to making brief, positive in-flight announcements and wearing red ties.
"In response to this, Mr Joyce has now locked out every pilot working for Qantas. This is nothing short of crazy behaviour," he said.
"Mr Joyce is stranding thousands of Qantas passengers all across the globe so he can engage in his mad game of one-upmanship. All so he can pursue his delusion that Qantas should be an Asian airline, instead of an Australian one.
"We believe this action is unlawful and we are currently seeking legal advice.
" He has locked out short-haul 737 pilots who aren't even involved in any action at all.
Mr Woodward said this action would have been planned months in advance.
"Let's be clear about this: Mr Joyce would have planned to strand thousands of Qantas passengers all across the globe months ago," he said.
"To ground your entire fleet, when doing so is completely unnecessary, is not the act of a sane and reasonable person.
"He has snatched his ill-deserved millions on Friday and grounded the airline on Saturday. It's just tragic and unnecessary."
AAP

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Ka.Boom
I am sure the AJ has the complete backing of the board. There is just no way he could do this without the express approval of the panel. They know what they want and they now how to get it, the only variable here is FWA and the federal government.

SN

[Conductor]

Snail Dave,

Firstly, many of us are capable of a mature response without the underlying tone of disdain that you displayed in your post.

Secondly, it seems that you have based your response, at least partly, on the misunderstanding that all 3 of the unions mentioned (ALAEA, AIPA, TWU) are conducting the same campaign and making the same EBA claims. AIPA members have not, at any stage, stopped work or caused any delay. The only action taken has been making polite PAs and wearing red ties instead of black ones. As for the claims being made by AIPA in the EBA, they are just that - claims. Ambit claims. You seem to have a poor understanding of what exactly is involved in the negotiation and bargaining process. (Hint: look up the word "ambit".)

Thirdly, I can assure you that every fellow LH AIPA member I have spoken to in recent times is more than willing to provide efficiencies. We understand that change is required and are willing to be part of it. We just want to know that we can partake in that process and not then be short-sheeted by a dishonest and deceitful management. If they were only prepared to take us on the "journey" with them they might be surprised at what could be achieved.

I fully support AIPA and its representatives.

[flying lid]

sincerely hope it works itself out, but whatever happens, the goal posts have shifted forever. And if the worst happens; a heads up; there is no such thing as job security; welcome to the 21st century.



Very, very true, unfortunately for us all in the "west". And true for whatever job you have, not just aviation. There HAS to be a response, somehow, by the "west's" workforce to this state of affairs. Look at Europe, broke, now begging for bail outs from China Brazil, etc. Globalisation - It gets worse for the "western" worker year on year.

Glad to see the Queen got out just in time -Her BA flight wasn't a QF codeshare !!!!!

Good luck to all you Quantas folks, as a Pom SLF I can honestly say you were once the best.

Lid

[Pappa Smurf]

Of course its been planned long in advance.Remember Clifford was with Rio when they got rid of unions.

[LapSap]

Yes, not that I'm a big fan of his, but Dick nailed it.

The punters want Australian wages and conditions but are only willing to pay Asian prices. Its not just with airlines, its everything.
It's the punters that have decided Qantas' fate.

[Conductor]

The punters want Australian wages and conditions but are only willing to pay Asian prices. Its not jusy (sic) with airlines, its everything.

Agreed.

It's the punters that have decided Qantas' fate.

Not agreed. Price wars may be influenced by the consumer but are not started by them.

[SilverSleuth]

I am sure this is a deliberate move to get government intervention and a "forced" result. He is betting that they will be told to pay something (2-3% etc) but wont have to sign any job security clauses. As long as he doesn't have to do that, he has won in his mind.

On the other side, if JB doesn't announce tomorrow they are buying another 10 330s immediately, he is mad.

[Eastwest Loco]

I have been busy over the past few hours reaccommodating clients and basically putting out bushfires.

This is starting to smell of the '89 debacle without a compliant PM to set it all up to take care of a fat obnoxious mate who bought his daughter a car.

I am sorry, but the Total Wankers Union has never been a favourite of mine after numerous disputes, and I despise some of the ex TN senior management in Qantas too (not you Whirley W) but think you are all being far too self important.

AJ - hello? Parameters were set for remuneration and mauch as I do not like his style of management, they were met. Pay time.

The Airline is profitable but in a market where MH is offering 5.5K business class return fares to Europe as opposes to 9K plus QF. That is pretty much a work of art being profitable.

The base rates have always sucked in ramp, but the penalties and overtime paid off my house before I turned 30. It is a pretty good gig really guys and girls - admit it.

Be scared union friendly dudes. If the airline shuts down and restructures with Government approval and support (remember the other part of '89 excluding you all blaming each other and not looking at the real villains) then you may have no jobs to go back to. The Union clowns will have long gone missing. No further dollars/ No more "rah rah" and going in search of another victim.

I got into trouble in ADL after I went to AN there for not joining the FCU. Told the local State manager to go pound sand up his arse. In 2 cases with TAA pulling out and then East West being swallowed and drowned by Ansett the union reps went totally missing once it was a done deal. Nothing.

Look over your shoulders guys and girls. When the goiung gets tough the union goes missing.

They are pretty much irrelevant now and only love you long time when you are paying.

If there is a chance you won't be, POOF - what rep?

All of you - GET OVER IT.

Sure, push for no overseas outsourcing. Live with the current pay offer (Coming out of difficult financial times - 2% less is still an increase) and TAKE CARE OF YOUR BLOODY AIRLINE!

This whole thing would be making many true Airline men and women roll in their graves.

The industry is nearly beyond hope of retaining a semblance of its former greatness.

Please do not trash it now.

Best all

EWL

[Arnold E]

the only variable here is FWA and the federal government.

Have to agree with you here, but I dont think there is much doubt that they will come down on the side of Q. I'm afraid the game is lost.

[manfred]

Gillard on now,
seems like she's trying to play it right down the middle

[woollcott]

Just looking at the vox pop on www.abc.net.au (http://www.abc.net.au) - 97% of people blaming AJ and calling for his sacking

[Al E. Vator]

Yes just be calm and it will all sort itself out...

Clearly designed to force the Govt's hands and get FWA to bypass normal procedures. This will probably happen sooner rather than later and ops 'normal' again thereafter. Then the locking-out won't need to happen.

Should it do so though....
1) Being locked-out for wearing ties and making PA's?
Even if the unions had gone on strike within the confines of the terms of PIA then what possible legal justification could there be for locking-out staff?
Surely QF must be open themselves to some sort of legal recourse here? Again their lawyers must have trawled the fine-print before this action but it does seem amazingly blatant. If the laws of the land allow employers to lock out staff for no good reason (wearing red ties) then they are seriously in need of amendment.

It also shows amazing disrespect for the Federal Government under whose auspices the FWA protocol was set-up. The QF Board clearly see themselves as beyond/above these procedures. Albeit they are playing poker-face by forcing the Gov't to intervene - ordering everybody back to work - and thus bypassing normal PIA procedures.

2) Even the mere intention of carrying out lock-outs etc was material to yesterday's AGM. This is in no way beneficial to shareholder value and must be in breach of some required disclosure clauses (???)

There are lots of armchair experts and critics (damn those evil unions trying to destroy humanity as we know it!) but this is simply about bloody-minded corporate greed and power.

I work for a foreign airline and get paid much more than my colleagues at Qantas. My airline is based in Asia and is extremely profitable.

This whole "we must join Asia with low salaries" is a smokescreen and in many cases simply incorrect. The buffoons who peddle it (the Peter Reiths of this world) are only using this as a Trojan horse to try to force through political agendas more relevant in the 70's when unions really were out of control.

Too much bastardry going on here.

No wonder people are demonstrating the world-over at such similar corporate excesses. Hopefully the perpetrators of these excesses will be held to account (not holding breath).

[troppo]

Cool. 97% don't understand the role of the board then? :ugh:

[Howard Hughes]

I am sure this is a deliberate move to get government intervention and a "forced" result. He is betting that they will be told to pay something (2-3% etc) but wont have to sign any job security clauses. As long as he doesn't have to do that, he has won in his mind.

Listening to the Prime Minister this is exactly how it is going to play out, I think you have it in one Silver Sleuth.:(

[peuce]

Some corporate leaders having their say ...

Leaders lead by example; Alan Joyce should have said no to a pay rise this week. Very disappointed in the Qantas board and its chairman ... Ita Buttrose(twitter)

[LapSap]

I work for a foreign airline and get paid much more than my colleagues at Qantas. My airline is based in Asia and is extremely profitable.

Please tell me you aren't referring to CX.
There is no way you can relate Hong Kong to what is normally referred to as Asia. I know, I live here.

[Creampuff]

Keg said:Supervisories and senior checks not locked out. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if a number of the senior checks resign though!Let’s see how many do.

The main enemies of employees in the aviation industry aren’t management executives: The main enemies of those employees are other people who are prepared to be employed at a much lower price.

It will be unedifying to watch all the employees of other airlines in Australia - pilots, engineers, cabin crew and ground staff - now working harder, for the same money - to enable their employers and QANTAS executives to feast on the fat – let’s hope it’s not the carcass - of QANTAS.

I can recall the taxpayer spending lots of money, a decade and half or so ago, to keep QANTAS going. I agreed with that at the time, because I thought that the sacrifice of my and my family’s standard of living through the diversion of consolidated revenue to that purpose was for the public benefit. Now, unfortunately, QANTAS is a ‘brand’ that must be ‘protected’ by the executives of QANTAS, apparently for the purposes of ensuring that a small subset of people – not the taxpayers of course – are ensured increases in income, notwithstanding the absence of an equivalent increase in income for those who actually produce the service from which the income is derived.

I was given a piece of advice a couple of decades ago, and I recount it for what it’s worth: There’s no security in being employed; there’s only security in being employable.

At the time, and for a considerable period afterwards, I understood what that advice meant: If you’re qualified to do only one job, you’ll get paid whatever your employer, or another employer of the skills you have, is prepared to pay. There can be a background of awards and tribunals and all that stuff, but the outcome will eventually be the same.

The upshot is that if you’re not willing or able to go somewhere else and do something different, you’ll get paid whatever TF your employer decides you’ll get paid.

But then something finally dawned on me a few years ago (I’m a slow learner): only employees get told what they get paid.

Revelation: If you don’t like what you’re being paid by your employer, and you can’t find someone else to pay you what you want, then make the money yourself or STFU.

[mates rates]

An interesting detail in all of this is the fact that those pilots "stranded" on overseas flights will be paid.In the past a lock-out meant just that and the pilots would have to make their own arrangements to get home.I would suggest that this is a good bargaining point for the AIPA.They have domestic pilots not involved in this dispute being locked-out.They should threaten to bring home all those pilots in LHR,BKK.HKG etc and leave those aircraft uncrewed.It would take a week to get those aircraft back when this is resolved as it will be, because the government has too much to lose if it can't handle this one.

[Yarra]

Mr. Conductor. A couple of questions please should you have the answers/opinion/time. Can you share what the Pilots actually want? The Gent from the AIPA indicated that QF was being turned into an Asian airline. How can that happen with the Pilots?.

[POT100]

I believe that AJ is the puppet and LC the puppet master.He is the danger man with his own agenda and bullies the board.Just have a look at who the board members are!..

Boy, is the government pis$ed off..This is gonna backfire on the Board and management bigtime..heads have to roll!!

[The The]

Am I the only one that thinks this is a conspiracy?

1. This was planned - obvious, by QF and the Gov't!
2. The Gov't and QF have for weeks said they don't want intervention - but they have been talking for weeks. The Gov't is looking for a "win".
3. Shut the airline on Melbourne Cup week - he couldn't be that dumb, it was done to maximise hysterical impact and force an immediate resolution - cue the gov't.
4. It was leaked to the media early today, in planning for weeks/months.
5. Albanese expresses "shock" - yeah right, he knew all along.
6. The Prime Minister says FWA should sort it out (she's responsible for the Act and FWA).
7. FWA will cancel the industrial action and "solve" the dispute.
8. The Prime minister gets credited for "solving" the dispute, vindicating herself and FWA and improving her polling for "saving QF and the Melbourne Cup".
9. After a time of peace,
10. QF Sales ACT recinded by parliament. that's the deal (suddenly the "unamed" Asian airline becomes "Qantas Asia")
11. QF move most Ops offshore, Qantas expands - though based in Singa's, the public don't care, they see QF planes all around the world - funny accent though!
12. AJ moves to Singa's, the domestic arm of Qantas flies Capital Cities only. Jetstar expands 10 fold.
13. Jetstar is split from the group and sold off (who makes a squillion?)
14. Qantas is withdrawn from the ASX and eventually sold to a foreign entity.

[airsupport]

What I can NOT understand is even IF the Unions were asking for way too much, and threatening massive industrial action (they are NOT but even IF they were) okay Qantas and AJ could threaten to stand everyone down and cease flying from 8PM Monday (or whenever in the future) but what kind of lunatic just grounds the whole Airline like this, especially after giving himself a 71% pay rise only yesterday. :ugh:

[Tankengine]

Where is the 72 hour notice of PIA from Qantas?:confused:

[OverRun]

POT100,
The Government's position is an irrelevance. They will exercise their powers and use their influence. And then, as I said, irrelevant. They don't own Qantas, and don't control it. The strongest response that they can make is Julia changes her hair style.

This game is being played outside their patch.

[woollcott]

In what can only be described as controlled fury, the Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Anthony Albanese, has cast doubts on the maturity, sincerity and behaviour of Qantas Group CEO Alan Joyce following his announcement just before 5 pm that he was grounding its entire domestic and international operations until the pilot, licensed engineer and ground staff unions withdraw their legitimate court sanctioned industrial campaigns and pay and condition claims.
Albanese said the government has not learned of the Qantas grounding until after 2 pm this afternoon, less than three hours before the action was announced just before 5 pm eastern time.
“This action is quite extraordinary” the Minister said.
“At no stage in any of the discussions the government has had with Qantas did it indicate that it wanted the government to intervene at Fair Work Australia to resolve the issues, and it did not at any stage mention that it was contemplating these groundings,” he said.
“I have real concerns about these actions, and I have spoken to Mr Joyce since the announcement to make my concerns known, and he has told me that the decision was taken at a board meeting this morning and that it was a fait accompli.
“I find it extraordinary that a board meeting should have suddenly decided on this course of action this morning less than a day after it held an annual general meeting.
“There has to be planning involved in this. I leave it to those who know how aviation operates to ponder the timing of this.”
Minister Albanese said the disputes between Qantas and its pilots, licensed engineers and ground staff were capable of being resolved by mature adults who recognised a shared interest in arriving at solutions that were in the longer term interests of the company and its employees.
“I made it very clear to Mr Joyce that I was very disturbed that we had conducted a number of discussions with Qantas during which no reference had been made to the possibility of such action being taken by the airline,” he said.
Albanese also made it clear that he had been in close consultation with the CEO of Virgin Australia, John Borghetti, following his conversation with Alan Joyce and that Virgin Australia had undertook to make every effort to step into the breach caused by the Qantas groundings with additional capacity.
While the Minister was expressing his lack of confidence in the Qantas board and Alan Joyce, the Vice President of the Qantas pilot union, Richard Woodward, said he knew that Qantas had booked thousands of hotel rooms world wide some weeks ago in advance of its action to ground all of it international and domestic flights and had been negotiating replacement flights with Cathay Pacific up to several months ago.
Woodward said the Qantas action was in his opinion premeditated and well planned, and queried Joyce’s stability, describing his performance this afternoon as ‘bordering on the maniacal.”
Passengers are reporting that they had been on boarded flights ready to depart with no inkling of the grounding decision, saying that the pilots and flight attendants were also completely unaware of the action until they were told to empty the jets.
On returning to the terminals they were handed letters from Qantas management setting out the situation and the arrangements that would allow them to claim hotel expenses, change bookings to other airline or receive refunds.
Fair Work Australia is holding an urgent hearing into the dispute in Melbourne late this evening on the application of the federal government which has asked the tribunal to seek an immediate suspension of all industrial action by all parties.
The Qantas action severely embarrassed the Australian Government at the Commonwealth Heads of Governments Meeting or CHOGM in Perth, potentially causing delays to many delegates and their entourages and the extension at short notice of the special security arrangements.
Earlier tonight Dick Smith told ABC News that he would have shut down Qantas three years ago. Not a word from such an astute and patriotic businessman about solving the Qantas competitive issues by actually matching the route structure to demand, or attacking the biggest cost impost, fuel, with timely investments in fuel efficient jets, or having competitive product at the premium level where most passengers don’t actually pay for their fare, the company does.
With good management, and a slightly lower exchange rate, Qantas would be highly competitive. This defeatist and inept management has ruined our national carrier, and has been inexcusably incompetent.
Later this evening Tony Sheldon, the national secretary of the TWU added to allegations made earlier by pilot union vice president Richard Woodward that today’s groundings had been planned long in advance.
These are allegations that Qantas needs to address, or risk serious damage to its insistence that it has been negotiating in good faith for many months with the parties.
Just before the late night hearing of the FWA application the Prime Minister Julia Gillard avoided numerous opportunities to add to Minister Alabanese’s commentary on how Qantas notified the government of its actions which she said had drastically escalated the industrial situation and brought it to a stage where it could have an impact on the national economy.
The Prime Minister, speaking at the CHOGM conference in Perth, said 17 heads of state and their parties had been booked to leave on Qantas flights from tomorrow, and were making their own arrangements to book on other airlines with Australian support if required.

[Clipped]

Am I the only one that thinks this is a conspiracy?


No. I'm with you.

Julia was sweating. She knew of this and refused to publicly repeat any of Albanese's comments.

This stinks.

Post FWA hearing will be interesting.

There were threats of lockouts and groundings months ago. Unions did not play into their hands with heavy handed tactics. Our campaigns were slow, moderate and conservative. They hated us for this. Till now.

This was planned months ago.

[Cafe City]

Qantas a/c being repainted in Jetstar paint scheme?? Just a thought.
Thats the objective isn't it?

[RATpin]

Now I know many of you are suffering from shock,given the amount of emotive posts so far. Remember back to the time Ms Gillard announced her backflip on the Carbon Tax and one A.J. was amongst the first to come out in support of this betrayal,take a wild guess as to why!
The coming week will be most interesting.
Before you get on your high horses about me enjoying your suffering,I worked for the Rat for 2 years in the eighties (Some will remember those days) and my father gave 28 yrs to a once great airline.

[Bankstown Boy]

I'm curious. Perhaps someone with a legal background can answer.

First point: if the CEO (and other responsible officers) knew at the AGM that they were going to ground the airline, but neglected to inform the shareholders, is it either/both a breach of the ASX listing rules (not informing of a significant event) and/or a breach of the corps law, prohibiting a responsible officer from acting against the interests of ALL shareholders equally?

Second point: if Qantas is (and it is) offering tickets on all Qantas flights from Monday morning, is this not a breach of the Trade Practices Act (relating to misleading and deceptive conduct) to offer tickets on a service that you have no realistic expectation of being able to honor?

Much as I prefer Virgin as my airline, I can only feel deep distress at what has happened to Qantas. I feel for the staff and can only hope hope that you can move on to a new job once the inevitable occurs.

[Roger that.]

http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1243567895/Qantas_small_email_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/QantasMedia)about 4 hours ago (http://twitter.com/QantasMedia/status/130171160800399361) As a precaution, the Qantas fleet is grounded immediately (Jetstar, QantasLink and Jetconnect operating as normal). http://t.co/yBLuDm5

"Precaution" , you idiot AJ. Precaution from what? You think a pilot might do an overspeed, an engineering might slash a tyre, a porter drive his belt loader into the cargo door. You dont know us very well.

Tell ya what, I think if FWA get us flying tonight....the damage is already done!

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Clipped
Yep she was absolutely sweating. She has spend a lot of time in the kitchen lately! I think they'll be flying again tomorrow with instruction to sort it out and I would say AJ and the board think they'll get what they want under FWA ruling.

SN

[schlong hauler]

Told by crewing back on deck after midday tomorrow. Shorthaul pilots flying after 1200. Stay tuned for further. Kelpie's bitch.

[buttmonkey1]

joyce should be arrested as an industrial terrorist.
the penultimate case of adverse action ever.
middle of chogm and the melbourne cup
talk about un-australian,
the government should step in, and arrest this thief.

[fugitive]

Here we go again.
Firstly,when Qantas pilots split the AFAP in the 70`s for their own selfish ends.(the labor party was going to let them fly all domestic routes against their union compatriots)they started the downward slide of aviation as a safe and professional career for pilots engineers and others in what had taken years to achieve under the likes of Dick Holt,president of that only aviation union,the AFAP.
In 89 they joined other overseas airlines ,allowed by Hawke to break the Australian pilots by bringing in foreign scabs to fly our routes;including our fine RAAF pilots against their own countrymen.Great people.
Welcome to the real world and unemployment,you deserve it.

[Lucky Six]

POT 100
In think you are definitely on the money. The arrogance of LC, as displayed at the AGM, is breath taking. AJ is just a boy doing as he is told.

Safe Flying

[Worrals in the wilds]

So all those people who came to the happy world of Qantas post 89 deserve it too? The LAMEs, caterers, baggies and CS staff (many of who were still at school in 1989) should be held accountable and "deserve" unemployment for the alleged sins of the 89 pilots? Awesome. That's even more Irish than the CEO's actions.

Let's focus on 2011, shall we? Or sit and tell sad stories of the death of kings...

[schlong hauler]

Fugitive I was over Kuwait the night the Iraqis invaded. Thats the first Gulf War. Speed Bird ahead of us were on decent into Kuwait. Later on in London I learnt that some of the crew were raped and from memory a few lost their lives. An absolute tragedy for all Kuwaiti citizens and the BA crew. PUT YOUR HEAD BACK IN THE SAND AND BREATHE DEEPLY. Stay where you belong, in the third world.

[flying lid]

joyce should be arrested as an industrial terrorist.
the penultimate case of adverse action ever.
middle of chogm and the melbourne cup
talk about un-australian,
the government should step in, and arrest this thief

Joyce is an Irishman.

Old saying, (from an Irishman)

NEVER trust an Irishman who wears a suit.

Lid

[Pony Poo]

This action was clearly planned weeks ago.

Imagine these little pigs at the trough (Qantas Board) trying this move before the AGM? Get voted back in, get a pay rise, then pull this stunt.

[stubby jumbo]

Total Act of Bastadry.

These Clowns are totally out of control. Hang your collective heads in shame Qantas Board.....you're all a total disgrace.

UN-AUSTRALIAN.........nah -not a word to be used here.

CRIMINALS........... yeah -best fit:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::m ad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[ABAT4t2]

For those who thought Dick Smith made sense and cannot see further than the end of their nose this is what so called intelligent businessmen won't be telling you:

management spin about competing globally means you go down to the lowest common denominator. Reduced wages, reduced tax income for the government which ultimately means reduced social infrastructure, i.e. health care, pensions etc. everything.

Australia cannot and should not compete with countries like China unless ALL Australians are prepared to except a drop in living standards in order to remain competitive.

Of course the drop won't affect management who will still earn their oversized wages.

Australian wages and product pricing takes into account the social infrastructure in place in Australia and every product bought adds to the pot for the benefit of all Australians.

Tickets bought for an Australian led airline based in Asia adds to the pockets of management and possibly the social pots of whichever country the airline is based. It will not add anything significant to the Australian pot.

The real question here is whether one accepts a drop in living standards for ALL Australians or whether one sends out a message of "not with us".

We need to start applying some moral common sense to these issues. Global competitiveness is a one way street. Levi Strauss is an excellent example.

Not one single pair of levi jeans are still produced in America. They are all produced outside the USA to save costs. Yet every single pair of levi jeans are sold for the maximum they can achieve in each individual country meaning that the costs savings have not been passed on to the customer, so where is all that extra cash?

Perhaps someone should take a serious look at management wages for the real answer to these sorts of disputes.

You are a fool if you seriously believe the Qantas line.

[who_cares]

I think someone will lose their Job over this.
It's either AJ or Juliar

[RENURPP]

Don't waist your time bitching to each other on pprune, write a letter to the editor of your local rag, I wouldn't indicate I was a Qantas employee, just offer an opinion on the poisonous leprechauns actions today.
The general public and the media at large follow public opinion, not prune.
I will, read the NT news. :E

[Kharon]

It has many faces. Based on different people's perceptions, truth can have a variety of definitions.

Fact, reality, and certainty would be the closest definitions.
But fact is not always the truth because it is subject to change on the axis of time and space.

Reality too, is dependable on conditions influencing perception and certainty is a slave to circumstance.

So what is the truth?.

To politicians, truth is any favourable statement matching their ambitions for power.

To the rich, truth is monetary gain and; to the poor truth is deprivation and suffering.

World public is a strangely forgiving body. It forgives lies by politicians on the grounds that they are among the tools of their profession.

It forgives the fighting military, either side; for lying on the grounds that in war you resort to anything to further your objective.

It, however, does not forgive the weak, the downtrodden and the oppressed.

Dr. G. Rauf Roashan.

Qantas 0 – the mob 1. DO NOT let this gift slip by.

Selah

[The The]

Continuing with the Conspiracy,

A few years ago, GD thought he had the way to make himself and his friends incredibly rich - private equity. Well, it came undone and he had to settle for just a few tens of millions.

Now we have LC, AJ and a few others on the same idea, how to make a squillion? The answer is 1. The unions, 2. the Gov't, 3. The Qantas Sales Act. They have two ticks in the box - industrial unrest and the Gov't. No. 3 will follow as the first two fall into place just as they planned.

THIS DISPUTE IS ALL ABOUT RECINDING THE QANTAS SALES ACT.

Qiud pro Quo. The Gov't "solves" the immediate dispute, the game plan falls into place for QF (executives).

Theses guys are smart, very very smart. But moreover they are greedy, very very very greedy. The Gov't response is gullible, gullible, gullible.

A little bit of collateral damage is worth it, there are going to be unprecedented amounts of money made by select indiviuals from this. The unions are snookered, the Gov't implicit.

I hate to say it, but to end this excessive greed, we need to end Qantas. Let it fold and be reborn.

[Bang Bus]

I'm feeling a little disengaged, Can I take the survey again please???

[GAFA]

Just saw on another social outlet, that Cam Williams (the Today show) as a leaked QF email showing that QF positioned staff around the world in preparation for their actions today.

[QF94]

I hate to say it, but to end this excessive greed, we need to end Qantas. Let it fold and be reborn.

Like Ansett? If QANTAS folds, (highly unlikely I believe, but not impossible) it won't be reborn. It will be swept under the same carpet as Ansett.

Hopefully, some of the big investors will be calling for AJ's blood come Monday morning when the share price comes tumbling down and he's taken a 71% pay increase.

Better still, revoke his Australian citizenship and send back to Oirland.

[RATpin]

PP,seriously,this started when Dixson bought impulse. It's been a long game.
Sorry you joined the program late.

[600ft-lb]

Twitter (http://twitter.com/#%21/marshall_amelia)

she is at the FWA meeting right now if you're interested in live updates

Qantas counsel says lockout without grounding would be risky, causes safety concerns, could distract people in key roles

[bubble.head]

Just on 24 ABC, other airline aka virgin capacity is maxed out. So if this continues, passengers will be stranded for many days.

Maybe a patch work would be utilize the jetstar and qantaslink fleet to move the passengers? The dash 8 pretty much sits idle in the middle of the night.

Surely the transport minister will wave the noise abatement in Sydney to help the stranded passengers.

[flying-spike]

This had to have been planned but the timing was poor. Were any of the unions taking action at the time this kicked off (this afternoon), I know it was threatened but was there anything happening today. This clown has fired both barrels at his feet:


Misled the share holders, at least the majority
Given himself a bonus whilst stopping all revenue
Betrayed the customers who actually paid for his wage rise.
Neglected to inform ASIC.

A massive case of premature escalation?

[buttmonkey1]

hmm,
Greens Leader Bob Brown sided with the unions, demanding Ms Gillard press Qantas management over the strike.
“This lock out is also a sell out of the spirit of Australia,” Senator Brown said today.
“It is a multi-millionaire’s lock out of responsible decent pilots, crew and other staff whose work gives Australia the world’s best airline.
“This lock out is about exporting Qantas to a world of lower cost, lower services values and lower safety. The Government should stand up to Qantas’ selfish top brass,” Senator Brown said.

[DirectAnywhere]

This will be resolved either tonight or within the next couple of days. Passengers should be moving again before Monday.

This is all about management forcing the government to intervene and remove worker's rights to try and prevent their jobs being offshored. Management will get their wish.

[david1300]

I've only read half this thread (it's growing too fast), but I have been following this issue for a long time. I am a passenger, not a pilot, not an employee of any airline. I travel internationally from Aus about 4 times every 2 years, and internally about every 3 months. Here's my take and a few questions:

Take:
1 - many of the comments here seem to be from Qantas workers
2 - some workers/unionists must think that we, the public, are fools. A section strikes for 4 hours, then wrings it's hand saying why doesn't Qantas get the planes back in the air (last week - baggage handlers/engineers, etc). Do you think that we are such fools that we don't realise that the whole timetable for the day has been stuffed: planes are in the wrong locations, landing slots may not be available at destinations, etc.
3 - no one is this world is guaranteed job security. Can't you see that this is a claim that will never get accepted anywhere?
4 - more damage has been done to the Qantas brand by Qantas staff than by management.
5 - words and concepts like 'un-Australian' are just motherhood jingo. Get over it - Australians work all around the world taking 'jobs of locals', and the way Qantas employees are going we will be getting accustomed to many more foreign accents in 'Australian' workplaces.
6 - if you work for Qantas, your union leaders are doing you no favours.
7 - the last international flights I have flown are:
7a - London return - Singapore Airlines. Cheaper and in my view, equal or better service than Qantas
7b - Vancouver & return via Auckland - code share Air NZ/Air Canada. Less convenient than Qantas connections, but cheaper and in my view equal or better service than Qantas.
7c - San Francisco & return via Sydney - Cheaper, very average service, would use next cheapest next time. Would use Qantas if they were price competitive.
7d - Jahannesburg & return - Qantas because I had accumulated over 400,000 frequent flyer points over the last years, had not used any for the past 4 years and decided to use them up.
From this you'll see I am like many others - I am driven by a price/value/quality equation, and Qantas no longer comes out near best. Without people like me buying tickets. people like you won't have a job. It's that simple. Price yourselves out of the market, and the market will move on without you, or your employer, or Joyce. His successor will be more hard-line, and so on until Qantas, in whatever form it is then, can survive. And it will probably be without you, and your unions, and it won't matter a single jot that people will call it 'un-Australian'. Let's face it - it will be as Australian as Vegemite.

Questions:
A - what do people hope to achieve by becoming abusive, calling management criminals, etc? (The only answer I have at the moment is that it shows the level of mindless drivel that some people spout).
B - How do strikers think or believe that they will get a favourable outcome by crippling the organization that employs them?
C - Do the strikers/unions think that the short-lived feeling of satisfaction they may get if AJ is replaced will last them long enough when they are faced with the next hard b*st*rd that is appointed to do what needs to be done?
D - And will that feeling of satisfaction pay their mortgages and childrens school fees when the crippled entity they once worked for manages to survive and recover facing the global inevitably?

PS - how many of you watch the news on Australian made televisions, or search the internet on Australian made computers, while wearing your asian-made clothes, eating food produced by Australian-owned companies? I could go on, but I won't. You aren't the solution - you are just now facing the problem and the reality that has hit much of the rest of Australia in the last 30 years. A country of less than 25m people is not very significant in world terms, no matter how much you or I wish it were. Fortress Australia/Qantas does not exist.

[ozangel]

Alan Joyce heralds the return of Qantas' 100% safety record.

"Wifout planes fryin rouund da skoies, we can recraim our recorrd as da words safesht airrine" said Joyce.

[Al E. Vator]

Qantas fold - extremely unlikely.

It's all just a big game to make you scared.

There are too many aircraft leases, too many corporate contracts, a far-too valuable brand and too much business infrastructure to simply shut down or even massively downsize the airline. No, there are very few similarities to Ansett.

The QF Board (suspect that Joyce is just the mouthpiece for one particularly 'driven' board-member) are trying to play you all like puppets.

They're playing the Government (force FWA meeting and force everybody to settle). They're playing the employees ("Gee look they've shut the business down, we better get back into our holes and never misbehave again") and they've got Tony Abbott right where they want him.

But what the hell for? To compete with Garuda and Korean Air?

Yes sure there will be some (like a previous poster) whose prime concern is cost. I don't fly those airlines when I holiday out of Australia. I fly Qantas for a very good reason. I'm pretty sure I'll get there in one piece. If the A380 I'm in has an engine explode I'm pretty sure the pilots will handle it well. I would fly Virgin, ANZ, JAL, Emirates too. Ironically enough, a recent family trip OS was slightly cheaper on Qantas than the 4 other alternative airlines. The flight wasn't historically cheap, (they would have made a profit) and it was packed full too.

So this board will spit the dummy, shut down the airline temporarily, not play by the industrial laws of the land and for what? To speed the cheapening of an Australian icon and make it more like Vietnam Airlines? What the hell for?

So in spite of the right-wing, self-proclaimed free enterprise experts coming onto this forum (it is a pilots forum btw so what do you expect?) I cannot categorize the current QF Boards' actions as anything other than Stupid management personified.

Yes the industry is global but their current stance is like Steve Jobs saying "We need to make the Mac cheaper and crappier to compete with Dell". Quality is quality and people are prepared to pay for it. Sure not all (they fly Jetstar and Air Asia).

In summary - the board's actions do not reflect The Spirit of Australia one iota. And for the reasons above, they don't reflect sound business judgement either.

[Fuel-Off]

Maybe a patch work would be utilize the jetstar and qantaslink fleet to move the passengers? The dash 8 pretty much sits idle in the middle of the night.

They can't even crew those Dashes during the day, let alone back-of-the-clock.
The whole Group is F:mad:ked!

Fuel-Off :ok:

[WynSock]

Maybe a patch work would be utilize the jetstar and qantaslink fleet to move the passengers? The dash 8 pretty much sits idle in the middle of the night.]

Hey! Great idea. Lets use JETSTAR to pick up the slack. You should tell AJ about it. He has surely not thought of this himself. :rolleyes:

Bubble head, maybe because the pilots that fly the dash from dawn to dusk are asleep in the middle of the night.

[600ft-lb]

an interestesting post on Qantas's Facebook page from someone

Joanne (protected) (http://www.facebook.com/shuangs) Well? Again, i can tell you guys that i'm working in some hotel in Sydney and my dad own a hotel in Melbourne, we got all book out cause Qantas book all of our rooms in the last months for this few days you guys will believe like a switch? Wake up people. Be more realistic on what you believe from the media and from what people want to say. All this interviews from passengers and things like that are been screen so we can believe them and see the worse of whats happening. Thats the power of Media.

If that's true, certainly the management were in charge of some material information that may affect the share price and as such should've called a trading halt immediately.

[TBM-Legend]

truth is the first casualty of war...

[Worrals in the wilds]

Hey! Great idea. Lets use JETSTAR to pick up the slack.

So on the ground, what are we talking at the major ports? Three, maybe four Jetstar A320s (with their own prebookings) to pick up the slack of five or six 737s, 767s, A330s? What hours have the crew already worked? Jetstar already run on the smell of an oily rag irt crew hours and aircraft movements, even a fog throws them into chaos. It's not like they've got a spare fleet with crew standing by to cover the excess.

[Buster Hyman]

Two thoughts...

Does FWA hae the power to force a company to reopen?

Joyce says to shut down, but if all the staff ignored the order & carried on...well...?

[animal53]

I can think of one thousand , nine hundred and eighty nine reasons why you will lose this one.

[ozangel]

FWA Adjourned just now for an unspecified time.

[ejectx3]

David1300 you don't have a clue what you're talking about. I don't even know where to start. Do you even have a clue what the "job security" clauses are?

[shon7]

so what happens to the crews that are overseas. Does the company still keep paying for their hotels & meals or are they own their own after the lockdown on Monday?

[Happy Gilmore]

I don't use "twitter" too often but there is some interesting reading there. Just search "Qantas FWA". It appears Qantas, AND the politicians are attempting to "terminate" and not just "suspend" the action.

So that looks like the plan- involve the government to terminate legally authorized PIA.

Not Happy!

[TBM-Legend]

An overseas "perspective"...


BRITISH author LP Hartley once wrote: "The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there."

The various unions currently raging against Qantas would do well to ponder that line - because the past is where they seem to live.

With the opening to competition of many overseas routes, Qantas lost what had long been among the company's economic footholds. Competition brought better deals for passengers but, inevitably, pressure upon our national carrier.

Other economic realities are also bearing down on Qantas. This is why the airline is restructuring. It is crucial that Qantas or a subsidiary airline establish a viable Asian hub, otherwise the opportunity to compete for the lucrative and expanding market will be lost to foreign-owned airlines.

At the same time, the airline is seeking to take advantage of the lower labour costs available throughout Asia. To not do so would consign Qantas to an expensive and desperately uncertain future.

Yet the unions that are disrupting the travel plans of thousands of Australians appear to believe we're living in the '70s with no foreign pressure, no competition and no need to change.

Unions are framing the current situation as one of bosses versus workers.

Much is being made of Alan Joyce's $5 million salary. In reality, the choice is between maintaining an Australian- based airline with many overseas arms or not having such an airline at all.

The unions must decide between losing some jobs or potentially losing all of them. That may sound extreme, but remember that less than a decade ago Ansett was thought to be a permanent part of the Australian aviation landscape. It would be a tragedy if Qantas were to hit the same turbulence.

Don't trash the talent

AS Peter Costello once put it, having three children was a matter of one for mum, one for dad and another one for the country.

But with the cost of raising three in Sydney now reaching beyond $1 million, the bank manager must be factored in as well. An enormous proportion of that cost is in income lost to mothers, which explains why women are delaying starting families for so long.

This isn't because women are placing wealth above children. Rather, it simply takes a very long time for professional women in Sydney to reach a level of financial security they feel will allow them to properly provide for their children.

One solution is more job flexibility, allowing women to remain in the workforce while raising families. The losses here aren't solely to new parents. Employers, too, miss out on years of expertise. More creative blending of work and family can be of benefit to all.

[david1300]

@eject "David1300 you don't have a clue what you're talking about. I don't even know where to start. Do you even have a clue what the "job security" clauses are? "

You have a right to your opinion, but I notice that you didn't even answer a single question, or add a meaningful comment - not even 1. This is part of my point - this does you and your co-workers no favours. You apparently can't even articulate a reason to support you, nor apparently can you answer simple questions.

[Nkosi]

This situation,created by people with intractable opinions and egos, will do great harm to Qantas, the collective unions involved, the Travelling public and more to the point Australia. It is hoped by a whole swag of people that it will be resolved soon, on a permanent basis, or we can kiss goodby to our national carrier.

[flyingfox]

May have been mentioned before.... but strangely, Dick Smith commented today (almost with insight) that a lot of the issues facing everyone at Qantas are the result of Australian Govts. (of all persuasions) throwing the doors wide open in a 'free skies' frenzy. With low cost operators flooding the market with their almost unlimited capacity, Qantas has been sacrified to global markets. Either the Govt. backs off with it open skies policy or Qantas will be destroyed by overseas airlines with less tax, less regulation and cheaper costs. A lot of the blame lies with governments intent on globalising Australian markets. Dick Smith made the pertinent comment that politicians, lawyers, companyy directors, CEO's etc. all give themselves protection from globalised wages, while the workers have to cop the full impact of foreign 'free trade' competition. Improved productivity and reduced wages are only required of those who are exposed to market forces. The afforementioned people make sure protectionism remains for themselves. :*

[Oriana]

This WILL have repercussions for ALL Australian workers.

Screwing the 'toffs' at Qantas is just the entree - big business will screw Joe average from here to eternity.

Stick a fork in its arse and turn it over - this country's done.

:mad: