Eurocontrol Testing and Interviews

[Marios47]

Hey Paraskevoulla!

Really? Cool ! It's nice to have more Cypriots around :p

Well i went through with the application in August! And in September i got an email stating that my application has been processed and that i will get an invitation for November.

I contacted yesterday and said there is a waiting list so if i don't go in November i will get invited for January.

So when did you apply? Are you studying anything else right now?

[Tricks145]

@slamdoneck1991

I sent my certificate of visual performance two weeks ago and today I received an email stating that they will contact me for the phase 1 test.

[slamdoneck1991]

Tricks145
Same situation.
Received email about phase one, and found out some info about VISA to Netherlands...
Where you from?

[tehblizz]

A quick question.. is there a minimum grade required in your high school diploma for application? thanks:ok:

[Tricks145]

How reliable is the railway service in Belgium? I'm currently planning the route to Maastricht for my phase 1 test. There are only 20 minutes between the train arriving to Liege Guillemins (from Bruxelles Midi ) and the train from there to Maastricht.

[Moira]

Belgian railways and "reliable" in one sentence? :\
You must be joking!

Seriously, I'd try to get an earlier train if possible.

[slamdoneck1991]

Hey, guys. Do you already know your date of phase 1?
And, does anybody know, how can i get to Maastricht from Amsterdam??

[Surts]

I've send my diplomas and aplication one week ago, but still no answer. Is this normal?

[Stelar]

Yes, it is normal. Wait 2-4 weeks, then you can ask them kindly if they have received it or not.

[tehblizz]

Could someone please answer this question? Thank you very much :ok:

[Moira]

Sigh ... you know tehblizz, it actually might be helpful if you tried reading the info they provide on their website first (check the FAQ's on ATCo recruitment):

Hold a certificate of secondary education showing that they have successfully completed studies at advanced level (university entrance).

[tehblizz]

Dear Moira, thanks for answering me and sorry if I wasn't specific enough in my question. What I was asking is if there was an actual grade limit in your diploma, for eg. here in Italy your high school diploma can go anywhere from 60/100 to 100/100, and I was wondering if they put a limit to that (for eg. not less than 80/100)

thanks again :)

[Moira]

Ok, seems like I misunderstood you then, scusa! :\ I think it would be best to just call them directly if you want to get such specific info.

If I recall it correctly, "back in the old days" 70/100 used to be the absolute minimum for tests during training, anything below that was a no-go, so I would somewhat expect them to require similar minima with regard to your high school results.

For now: in bocca al lupo!

[catch-the-pigeon]

Hey, everyone!

I am currently applying for ACT in Bulgaria. I've been reading the formun for qiute a long time now and I would like to heartly thank everybody posting info about the application process :D

I have a question regarding the FEAST simulators: are feasttest.com and Skytest easier than the real FEAST? Furthermore, do you reckon that feasttest.com is generally easier than Skytest?
I payed for feasttest.com and I've been practicing on it, but I can't help thinking that the tasks there are not at the level required...

Thanks in advance and good luck to everyone applying for Eurocontrol :)

[slamdoneck1991]

We're still waitinig for the date, they should announce it this-next week...

[Florida21]

I applied for eurocontrol i have sent my diplomas and result in i have been waiting for one week and no answer ..is this normal ?:bored:

[malakajin]

Hey, guys ! I don't want or make you disclaim any info about the new DART test. I just want a simple answer to the question : how many aircraft are coming in the begining of each mini test at the same time ! Thanks a lot !

[tehblizz]

thank you Moira, and "crepi" :)

[catch-the-pigeon]

can anyone tell me: during Ball-to-the-Wall test, which buttons are used- 1,2,3,4 on the Num pad, or some letters? i know it sounds strange, but i'm trying to imagine the positioning of the fingers
thnx!

[Stelar]

on the numpad, do not forget to activate it by the numpad button

[catch-the-pigeon]

hey, thanks!

[Krazen]

Anyone coming to Maastricht from Poland on 22nd of November for phase 1?

[slamdoneck1991]

Krazen, when did you apply?
I asked them, and they tell me, that i'll have phase one in the beginning of next year...

[Krazen]

I applied in the middle of August. AT first they told me that my phase 1 would be either in the end of November or in the beginning of the next year, and it turned out to be in November.

[slamdoneck1991]

Good luck to those who are going to have phase 1 in november.
waiting for your comments.

[slamdoneck1991]

irishpilot1990, did you have?

[Krazen]

I had test on Tuesday, unfortunately I did not pass phase 1. 3 people from my group passed it, I don't know if they were successful in the afternoon at phase 2, though.

Only advise I can give you is that you should stay focus during whole test, read every instruction carefully and be quick. There is little time for second thoughts, most of times your first decision has to be final. Only exception is English language test, there is plenty of time for that test.

[slamdoneck1991]

Krazen, what kind of tests did you have?
Explain please every test. Or was it just typically feast test?

[Krazen]

Just FEAST, it's explained pretty well in wikipedia. Those 3 who passed FEAST done DART test later in the afternoon.

[slamdoneck1991]

Have you tried any preparation tools?
Does the feast test include SDM?

[Unregistered12]

yes,skytest is uselss.

maybe you pass the test,but you would not pass the training, if you passed it only because of skytest.

[Moira]

Same reason why explaining every single test in detail is not necessarily helpful.

[mxwbuaa]

is there anyone having skytest® preparation software for atco screenings 2.1 installation disk？

[vladTGS]

Feasttest vs Skytest which preparation program is better?

[catch-the-pigeon]

Hey guys/girls,

a quick question- in FEAST 2, where DART is, is a Math test included? They have included a Math section in feasttest.com

[bibz]

I really think this quick question deserves a quick answer... So... Anyone? Pleaseee :))))))
catch-the-pigeon, did u get THE CALL? :)

[gavroche]

hy! since i understand you took the test, could you PLEASE tell me how do you estimate the distances in the Coordinate System test? i mean those distances which do not imply calculating the 14 on diagonal or just the 10 on sides?

[Stelar]

Do not expect any serious calculation on that part of the test.
The 10/14 is going to be enough, the point is to make the calculation quickly and rightly for the first time so you don't waste your own precious seconds.

That's what all FEAST is about: be quick and right. If you screw up something and you can't correct it just go on and concentrate on the new things instead worrying about the (previous) screwed ones.

[catch-the-pigeon]

bibz, I got through FEAST 1 and I'm going to FEAST 2 on Monday :)) I am applying in Bulgaria though (in Bulgarian ATC centre), so my schedule is a bit different.

[bibz]

catch-the-pigeon, 8:45 or 13 o'clock?? :)))
I also passed FEAST 1 and I am scheduled for FEAST 2 for this Monday, 8:45 AM! What made you think I am not applying in BG? :P
Any news on tha math part?

Here's a quote from feasttest.com:
Mental Mathematics is not a part of the offical FEAST test, however many ATC organisations(NATS amongs others) have added mental mathematics tests to accompany the FEAST test.

[malakajin]

hey guys ! do you have any ideea how many planes you need to handle at the same time during DART? i mean how many come out at the same time the second you hit begin . thanks

[Unregistered12]

unimportant. what would happen if i told you 3. and 10 are coming(during the test)?

do you always know how many aircraft you have to control during your job? an important ability of air traffic controllers is to be spontaneous.

i know eurocontrol students who failed the sim training and they said the dart test is a lot easier then the strip display management test.

so,do you still want to know it? the less you know about the test,the higher is your chance to pass it (and more importantly) the training.

[catch-the-pigeon]

13 h :) thumbs up!

[BeneluxLeaver]

Unregisterd12 "i know eurocontrol students who failed the sim training and they said the dart test is a lot easier then the strip display management test."


I also know a person who went on to be a student atco with EC and they said the DART test is much easier than the SDM test which was also the feeling of the whole group. He went on to say 4 people in his group scored 100% on the feast test and 3 of them failed the course in luxembourg.

Speaking with him about how difficult the whole procedure is I have decided not to apply.

[Unregistered12]

the problem is that the feast test doesn't test multitasking. or not enough.

in germany,you have to control 7 aircraft at the same time at a different speed and different destinations while you have to solve math tasks and you have a controller next to you, who observes you.

[malakajin]

yes but in germany the pass rate is 2% and training failure rate is next to none . tests are more difficult but very concludent

[Unregistered12]

yes,thats what i wanted to say.

that is the difference between germany and eurocontrol.

eurocontrol: tests are easy and many students fail the sim training, but the ones who pass the sim are very good

germany: tests are very difficult(less applicants pass the tests), but between 80 and 90% of them pass the training

[malakajin]

my opinion is that with hard work everyone can improve and a test has 50% 50% chances of proving something

[Unregistered12]

in my opinion,thats not true.

it depends on the test. if the test has only wrong or right,then you are wrong.

but an interview is different. there you can have luck because in an interview, there is no wrong or right. the whole interview is important.



and of course, there are things which can improve/train, but there things as well which you can't improve.

[BeneluxLeaver]

Forgive me for sounding like i am arguing but 7 aircraft is not that much. Apparently the sim training starts with around 16 aircraft over a 30-35 minunte exercise. I know all the people on that course could have coped with 7 aircraft during the selection phase.

[yv93]

Hi I am new here,

You guys have probably heard this question sooooo many times, but I cant find the answer anywhere.

So here goes, I applied with Eurocontrol about 2 weeks ago, and they sent me my username and password and all that, and I filled in the application form and I also sent them my education certificates, and now the answer that I can't find anywhere on this forum, is basically: What happens next? Do they tell us if we are unsuccessful? How long does it take for them to reply after we have sent them the certificates?
And also on the application form there was a question that asked for the refractive index of my eyes and i put unknown will this affect the application.
If anyone could answer these question it would really help. Thanks :D

[MK4]

I am from Bulgaria too, and I passed Feast 1. Tomorrow I will try FEAST 2, let's hope the DART test is not very difficult.
I haven't used any software or help to prepare for the tests.

[catch-the-pigeon]

What is the maximum (average, of cource) number of potential conflicts one can make during the exercises and still pass the DART test? 0/1/5?
From what you are saying I infer that only those who make no conflicts at all are suitable for ATCOs

[bibz]

I hope this isn't true. First of all this is just a.. beginning test, before the real training has started so in my opinion it's not realistic to expect the maximum. Besides I think in some cases conflicts just can NOT be prevented. E.g. one of my aircraft was surrounded by 4 other aircraft, flying at flight level 100 (2 airplanes), 200 and 300.. So even by changing the level I couldn't escape the conflict....
It didn't seem soooo hard, however I can't say I'm totally satisfied...

[Unregistered12]

no,i know many who failed it and who failed the simtraining.

the problem is,that the airspace very small.

[Surts]

I've send my application form at the 19th of October and I have been waiting for the answer every single day.

Yesterday I got the answer:
With reference to your application for the above-mentioned training, I unfortunately have to inform you, that we cannot proceed with your application.

This is due to the fact that according to our present manpower planning we do not have a requirement for additional air traffic controllers until 2017. We will therefore only need to train students as from the beginning of 2014.

We have now set the age limit at "not yet 25 years of age on 01.10.2014." Unfortunately you are above our age limit.

Please accept our apologies for this inconvenience.

:sad:

[egyipt]

Hey! Could you help me, I have some questions about the ball on the wall test. - at feasttest.com. Do you know which is the average % and which is the easiest way to pass it in real, because i see, sometimes not clicking or concentrate only 1-2 window is better then wrong clicks etc. Have you any comments of this?How looks like at real test? Thanks

[bravo_victor07]

Hello everybody!

I've been following this topic for some time now and recently there's been an increased interest in the rules and looks of the new FEAST DART. As most of you already know DART stands for Dynamic ATC Radar Test and it was implemented several months ago as a replacement to the Flight Strip Test in Eurocontrol's selection process.
http://www.monsterup.com/image.php?url=upload/1323613781763.jpghttp://www.monsterup.com/image.php?url=upload/1323613781763.jpg
...so where to start. I took the test some time ago and I will try to explain some of it here. The FEAST DART test is basically a simplified simulation of the actual work of the ATCs. You're given a radar screen which consists of several circles with different radiuses, representing the airspace you control. There are some small green squares with trails (four of them) which represent the aircrafts you're controlling. There are four orange triangles which are the checkpoints you have to take your planes through, and some buttons in the right side of the screen (we'll discuss them later). The exercises in the test are six, the first three of which are only there to train you on the rules of the test, and the second three (4th, 5th and 6th) are the ones you are being evaluated on.

http://www.monsterup.com/upload/1323613781763.jpg (http://www.monsterup.com)
This is not a screenshot from the real test, but the real one is almost identical.

TRAINING
Ex1, Ex2, Ex3: as mentioned above, these three are training exercises. You're introduced to the rules and some characteristics of the test, which very briefly sounded like this:
-You'll be given four aircrafts, colored green, which are under your control;
-Apart from "your" aircrafts there will be some traffic that you can't control, as these planes will be colored grey. They will pass through the radar screen without changing their altitudes and headings;
-All aircrafts (controlled and uncontrolled ones) are moving with the same speed, so you can change only the heading and the flight level of the ones under your control;
-The information for the aircrafts' headings and altitudes are given with small numbers next to the green squares that represent each particular aircraft.
-The aim is to get all of your aircrafts through the checkpoints in the correct order, avoiding conflicts. Checkpoints are named CP1, CP2, CP3, CP4 and this is the order you should follow with any of your aircrafts;
-The six small vertically arranged circles on the left of the screen represent the exercise you're currently on;
-The buttons on the right side of the screen are named "LEFT", "RIGHT", "ALT" and "SUM". The LEFT/RIGHT buttons are used to change the heading of a particular aircraft (Clicking RIGHT and entering 315 will make the aircraft turn right to heading 315);
-The ALT button on the screen is used to change the altitude of a particular aircraft. You're only allowed to use three altitude levels 100, 200 and 300;
-You have a conflict when both of these conditions are present: two aircrafts are flying at the same altitude and are less than 2.5NM apart;
That's pretty much all with the exception of the SUM button (we will talk about it in Ex6).

TEST
Ex4: the first one of the evaluated exercises. The aim is to guide your four aircrafts through four checkpoints in the correct order. There is no uncontrolled traffic. Your priorities will be in this order of importance:
1)Avoid conflicts;
2)Use less commands;
3)Pass checkpoints accurately.
Ex5: absolutely the same as Ex4 with the same priorities, but this time you have uncontrolled traffic, which makes it more difficult because you have
to avoid conflicts with more aircrafts.
Ex6: includes Ex5, but there is an extra task. You have to put your headphones on. While guiding aircrafts through the checkpoints you'll have to listen to a long sequence of letters and numbers and calculate the sum of the last two numbers you hear. If the sequence goes like this "M K 5 J 3 6 N P Q 8", you'll firstly have to sum 5+3, then 3+6, after that 6+8. The sum has to be entered, using the SUM button on the right side of the screen.

...and last, but not least, some pieces of advice from me:
-When doing Ex5 and Ex6 make sure you keep a fair amount of distance between your aircrafts, because it gets pretty nasty when you are controlling two aircrafts at different altitudes close to each other and you have to dodge two uncontrolled ones, heading your way, again flying at different altitudes. Remember, you can only fly at three altitude levels (100, 200 or 300)!
-When doing Ex4, Ex5 and Ex6 keep in mind the turning radius of your aircrafts (which is one and the same for all of them).
-Keep in mind your priorities!!! The most important one is to AVOID CONFLICTS and, God forbid, collisions. The second is to use less heading and altitude changes. The least important is to pass the checkpoints accurately (there is a certain distance within which you can pass the checkpoint).

I hope that my post would be useful! If you have any questions, I'll be more than happy to answer them! GOOD LUCK to all of you, who are attending the test!:ok:

[Unregistered12]

i really don't think it is a good idea to post this here.

the test is easy and the aim of the test is to test you if you have the skills(without knowing anything about the test). the test is useless if you pass it because of special information. and you don't know if you have the skills to act patient and coordinated under pressure without knowing what is going to happen.

[BeT]

^^^Agreed^^^

Although there are many helpful aspects to this thread, posting the exact methodology of the test does nobody any favours IMO.

This thread is doing a pretty good job of coaching people through the tests, even if they havent got the real skills - leading to students failing on the course, which is a MASSIVE pain (and costly) for everyone.

The tests are not 'hard', they simply try to seek out certain thought patterns and skills in individuals.

I first posted in this thread about 4yrs ago with some advice, and it remains the same.

Rest well, dress smart and know some background info on the company.

The rest you cannot prepare for, so stop trying! Theres a greater chance you are setting yourself up for a fall.

BeT
(Eurocontrol ATCO).

[slamdoneck1991]

Just receive...
With reference to your application for the above-mentioned training, I unfortunately have to inform you, that we cannot invite you for our phase 1 selection test in the near future.

This is due to the fact that according to our present manpower planning we do not have a requirement for additional air traffic controllers until 2017. We will therefore only need to train students as from the beginning of 2014.

This means we will only start with our selection tests again in 2013. We will keep your application form and will be in contact with you again at the end of 2012 to find out if you are still interested to participate in our selection tests in 2013.

Please accept our apologies for this inconvenience.

[yv93]

^^^ So I take it that anyone who has applied in the last month (i.e. me) will get the same reply... right??? :ugh:

[slamdoneck1991]

I applied in September.

[yv93]

^^^ Ok then, let me rephrase, does that mean anyone who applied at roughly the same time as you will get the same reply?? Or do they consider everyone before they turn them down, did you apply for trainee position or are you an experienced controller?

[BeT]

MUAC is 'overstaffed' by about 35 controllers I believe - although some sectors are still 'short' due non equal distribution of staff.

Recruitment will continue in order to keep the wheels greased, as it where; but significant numbers of new controllers will not be needed at least for a while.

The 2012 courses are full and have been for some time, the last time I checked 2013 courses were also almost full (although the numbers to be recruited were up on 2012). Dont forget if you are just applying now any good candidates that have already been through the process will be filling the last few spots.

Its simply not a good time to be applying unfortunately. However, as usual I predict come 2017 there will be a massive shortfall!

[Unregistered12]

hey, I thought the 2013 course have been cancelled?

it would be good to know because I have already tried it in 2010 and failed the inverview because of english.
and my plan was to apply again at the end of next year and I thought all tests are cancelled and the selection procedure is going to start again in january 2013 for the 2014 courses?

[BeT]

That could easily be the case.

Its been about 6 weeks since I had any kind of contact with people in the HR dept. over such things.

[Lon More]

as usual I predict come 2017 there will be a massive shortfall!

Possibly all applications being handled by the DFS then :sad:

[BeT]

where is this DFS stuff coming from Lon More?

DO you mean DFS will handle the training (not outside the realms of possibility) or are you implying some take over of MUAC by DFS?

If its the second you are implying, id love to know your sources as the tide of info we have at the moment is pointing in the exact opposite direction.......

[Lon More]

MUAC has always been a target for the DFS. They are looking at taking over NATS then MUAC would nicely fill in the gap. With LNVL and Belgocontrol reduced to APP/TWR services only it's an attractive target. It was first being mooted about 20 years ago.

[BeT]

Indeed, first mooted about 20yrs ago.

MUAC is the subject of institutional change at the moment, with the possibility of a split from Eurocontrol in Brussels to continue on as a separate international organisation as well as a few other options - simply being 'taken over' by DFS is not one of the options and quite frankly never will be, as:

1. It is not a private organisation for sale
2. The Dutch government have already stated they will not relinquish their stake/control
3. In a FABEC context the French have already VETOd any private ownership option.

Im pretty certain MUAC will get a name change in the next 5-10yrs and probably fall outside the Eurocontrol umbrella - but not under ownership of the DFS!

[Poeli]

I have a question: I was surfing on the internet and came on the website of FTE Jerez. It seems that they also offer ATC courses and training? I thought ATC was done by gouverments?
Can someone explain this to me? The I didn't find much if I looked up ATC course FTE.
thanks

[Lon More]

simply being 'taken over' by DFS is not one of the options


.... and pigs don't fly. Time will tell.

Meantime Merry Christmas to you all, and a Happy and Safe New Year

[Ivanofski]

Hi all,

I have just passed FEAST Part 1 and in the next month I will take FEAST Part 2. Does someone know what exactly part 2 includes?! Previous threads mention the SDM and DART but the head of training at the control tower for which I'm applying for said that it includes 6 web based tests!! Which are they?!

Thanks in advance.

[slamdoneck1991]

The second part of FEST is DART!
Dart is divided for 6 parts. First 3 for training, and the last 3 will take effect on you mark!

[Ivanofski]

What is the difference between the parts?! I assume it is the difficulty level. Am I correct?!

[Lon More]

Ab Initio 1 commenced January 5, 1970, it was a long walk from the Parliament building to the Institute through nearly a meter of snow - no road then!!!
Out of interest, what course number are they up to now?

[roitos]

59 if i'm not mistaken

[stefanos-c]

hello

in the feast test the strip dispaly management test is still there?

[Paraskevoulla]

hello stefane. I am from cyprus too and i also applied. The sdm is now replaced by the dart test.

[Unregistered12]

Hey, one question. Did you two apply for Eurocontrol?
Because both of you are too old for EC.

[Paraskevoulla]

eurocontrol. you are allowed to apply if you are under 32 and over 20.

[Unregistered12]

But not as an air traffic controller. You are not allowed to be older than 24 years of age on first october,2014.

Want to become a student air traffic controller? If so, you must:
not yet be 25 years of age on 1 October 2014;

[Paraskevoulla]

The tests we are going to take (feast test), are from eurocontrol Isn't it possible that cyprus has different age criteria than other countries? The age range is the one I mentioned. for instance, i read in this forum that 18yearolds are allowed to apply. we are not. You have to be over 20 and have a university diploma.

[Unregistered12]

Sorry, maybe that was a missunderstanding, but i thought you meant eurocontrol as an ansp and not a test of eurocontrol.

[slamdoneck1991]

Every ATC schools have their own rules.
In ukraine we don't have age restrictions, but we're part of Eurocontrol!
Going to have FEAST I 23 january.

[yv93]

I finally got a reply from Eurocontrol, and the good thing is that they said that they have processed my application and they have sent me the form for the optician to fill out. On the other hand how ever they said that their next selection tests are in 2013, which is literally a year away! And that is such a long wait!
Well now I will have to see if I pass the opticians test, one thing I am thinking is if they will even tell us if we passed that or not??

[Unregistered12]

this test is only a basic test. so if you are able to see something,you will pass the test. i wasn't able to fill out everything and they said it's not a problem.

i don't know if you know it,but if you pass the interview,you have to pass a medical and there you will be finally tested.


but as you said, one year is a very long time. and the next course starts in 2014,so from now,it's 2 years.

[slamdoneck1991]

Hey guys. Who had FEAST test at eurocontrol, tell me please, which preparation tool is most effective, feasttest.com or skytest?
Just got information, that feasttest is almost similar as at eurocontrol, is that true?

[Unregistered12]

^^^Agreed^^^

Although there are many helpful aspects to this thread, posting the exact methodology of the test does nobody any favours IMO.

This thread is doing a pretty good job of coaching people through the tests, even if they havent got the real skills - leading to students failing on the course, which is a MASSIVE pain (and costly) for everyone.

The tests are not 'hard', they simply try to seek out certain thought patterns and skills in individuals.

I first posted in this thread about 4yrs ago with some advice, and it remains the same.

Rest well, dress smart and know some background info on the company.

The rest you cannot prepare for, so stop trying! Theres a greater chance you are setting yourself up for a fall.

BeT
(Eurocontrol ATCO).

look at this and forget your training tools.

[elafrican]

Hello. First of all I'd like to thank you guys for the thread. Was a nice "book" to read. Second, while preparing is not encouraged to be used, I do think it's normal for a human being to know what's he's facing and wanting to give his best.

I don't know how ATC are in Maastricht, but I know a few here that aren't born with what EUROCONTROL wants them to be born. They developed the knowledge step by step.
I took a preparation test from the Internet ( payed for it, don't hate because it's my money ) just to see how it is and it's about how we see ourselves. If I rock this test( which is easier in some parts, but harder in others - like you have 15 secs to do the cube compared to 40 secs at original FEAST ), I will be more confident in myself. That doesn't mean I don't have what it takes, because usually tests are harder than the actual job/thing/etc. That's just my opinion.

Anyway what I really wanted to ask is if the FEAST wants to see our logic and response speed or if we can take a problem to the end.
Let me give you an example, and I will take my beloved cubes.
40 seconds for 1 cube, if you finish 3/4 of them all in 20 seconds each compared to finishing 4/4 ( all ) in 39 seconds each. Which one is better?

Don't get me wrong, I like planes, wanted to be a pilot ( but decided not to ) and my aunt is an ATC for 15 years and I like what she's doing ( actually helping people ), so after rocking the psychology exam ( according to them ) and after having my ego fed with a lot of "you're smart" stuff, I won't let a silly test and some cubes tell me I'm stupid, because I'm not. I don't need much practice, all I want is more information about the test so I can make a battle plan.

I'm sorry if what I say is not much help to others, just been reading this for quite a while and thought I'd say my story :)
Good luck to all want-to-become ATC-ers and thx for the info.

Steve.
(http://www.google.ro/search?hl=ro&client=firefox-a&hs=oyk&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=X&ei=UloQT4C8JYvKtAbkw-gn&ved=0CCYQvwUoAQ&q=Maastricht&spell=1)

[Unregistered12]

the more you train for feast, the higher are the chances to lose the training.

[slamdoneck1991]

How long does the first part take to pass it? I mean, explanation, training(if exist) and the test...?1,2,3 hr?

[malakajin]

around 2 hours

[stefanos-c]

thx paraskevoulla,good luck with the test

[elafrican]

Well I did take into consideration all your warnings and I won't prepare for it. Instead, I'm going to work my brain a bit with those cubes. Going into practice mode and I'm going to strive to get 100% (got 80% max once, was so happy). There shouldn't be anything wrong with doing so vision exercises to stimulate my neurons :)

On-topic: In my opinion, the most important thing you should have is the confidence in yourself. If you go to FEAST with thoughts like : "my parents will be so mad if I fail", "my whole life depends on this test", you are 90% sure to fail. Like someone said on this thread, he started bad, but then chilled, found his happy place and managed to go through with it. I'm going to try to do the same.

[Unregistered12]

I don't know if that is such a good idea because you have a training phase. i think they want to see how fast you can learn new things and how much you can better yourself.

i know it's not eurocontrol, but in germany, they don't want that you are perfect at the beginning, but they want to see that you try to become better and that you learn from your mistakes.

so if you are perfect from the beginning, they have two possible solutions:
1. you are very good
2. you have trained

but in the end, it's your decision

[UsernameNotAccepted]

As an ex SATCO with Eurocontrol it annoys me so much that these companies are taking peoples money offering 'help' for the FEAST test.

Honestly, people reading this just take the advice to rest well and prehaps dress well to the feast test and see it as an enjoyable day of puzzles. If you have what it takes to work in Maastricht as a ATCO you will pass the feast test. Be warned though passing the feast test does not mean you have what it takes to be an ATCO (in Maastrict).

I truly beleive that with enough practice you will be successful at any test so you can train yourselve through the feast. But whats the point. You will find yourself failing at some point and be in my situation (and I did not use any training method). Having spent a lot of time that could have been spent developing another career. In my case this equated to 6 months waiting for the course to begin, 9 months of the course and then 4 months after trying to secure another job a total of 19 months that could have been better spent. Bear in mind some people fail right at the end of the course some 2,5 years after starting. I have the greatest respect for EC but they will chop you and tell you not to come in the next day.

These money grabbing feast test trainers make me so mad I would like to set up a free website offering training (I have a background in software development). I won't though as I respect EC too much to screw up their selection (and fear of them sueing me, hehe)

I reiterate BeTs advice
Rest well, dress smart and know some background info on the company.

[elafrican]

Well how can you say that if you take the FEAST by practicing, it's useless, because you might ( most likely ) fail the training ?
The ATC job is %1 of what this exam tests. I might have other skills and learn very fast. A test can never tell ME that I am not good enough for something. Until you haven't tried and see live what happens, you can't say I don't fit there.
Don't underestimate the human will and the brain.

And again, I'm saying all of these, because I have a relative that is an ATC for 15 years and she went to her exam with thoughts like "meh, lets give it a try, can't kill me", yet she's very good now and compared to me at her age back then, she's not as smart and intelligent as I am. So who says I can't learn in a very short time everything and be successful at this job?
Also, you can take FEAST first try, without any practice, that doesn't mean you are going to be a good ATC even if you pass all the training.
Everything is relative.

[Unregistered12]

Yes,you are right, the test can't tell you 100 percently that you dont have the skills.
but what do you think, who has better chances to pass the training. someone who had to train for it and didn't have the self confidence to do it without training or someone who is spontaneous,tried it and passed it?

you have to bear in mind, in reality, you don't know what is going to happen so you have to act spontaneously and you have to make the right decisions SPONTANEOUSLY!
and that is the reason why they don't want you to practice for it(some things such as english,describing things etc are okay but not the exact tasks!)

and dont think they will not see if you have practiced for it. the chances are high that they kick you because of that. or they raise the bar. because how could they compare you with someone else?



and the example with intelligence is stupid (in my opinion.)
do you really think you are better at multitasking or something else then someone who is not as intelligent as you?
there are some specific skills which you have or don't have. if not,then you are not able to become an air traffic controller to work with such a high workload.

[slamdoneck1991]

FEAST I passed successfully!

[BeT]

@ Elafrican:

You can do what you want and say what you want - its your life and your opportunity.

You have a group of people on here (both successful and unsuccessful) Eurocontrol trainees trying to offer unbiased and helpful opinion.

If you would like to ignore it, feel free. It will not bother any of us :ok:

Lets see if you make it to the other side......

I wager not.

[stefanos-c]

1)at the ''planning ability test'' which aircraft have priority.. the faster one or the one that is closer to the runaway?

2)At ''reaction by rules test'' the ''same button'' is for the forms that have the same shape regardless the color (if the rule is is sorting by shapes) or for the forms which have the same shape AND color?

i am talking about the official feast test and not for the training sites online

[slamdoneck1991]

Thee highest priority give to the faster aircraft. Don't pay attention to the closest a\c.
And about rules. You shoud press match when the color and the shape the same!
green triangle green triangle "match".
We had it in Ukraine.

[Unregistered12]

You will get your instructions. Do what they tell you and you will pass it. The more you know, the higher is the chance that you are stressed because you think you have to keep so many things in mind.

I understand that you want to know as much as possible about the test,but it makes the test useless. Being spontaneous is a very important skill.

[stefanos-c]

thank you very much

[stefanos-c]

thank you for your advice,you may be right

[Ivanofski]

I am getting fed up of all these dramatic posts describing the high failure rate of ATC training. I was told from high officials that 98% of the FEAST candidates which passed the FEAST tests as well as the psychological test PASS the ATC training. Some people are quoting numbers such as 50%. That is highly unacceptable and if it is true, all ATC schools would have gone bankrupt by then.

So please, don't post any discouraging posts. I'm about to initiate ATC training at Skyguide next April if I will pass the medical exam, so some psychological support is highly appreciated.

[Unregistered12]

There is a difference between passing the training being a good atco.

Keep in mind that(for example) muac has a very high workload.
And these numbers such as 50% are official numbers,published by eurocontrol itself.


I know that it's not what you want to hear. But i think it's better to be prepared, that many fail the training insted of thinking"i passed the feast so i will not have any problems with the training".
;-)

[DiCampo]

Ivanofski,

your 98% may be true for the basic training, even though I think it is a high number for that as well.

However, I have started training almost 5 years ago (and happily qualified for about 1,5 years, yay) and I can tell you that of all the people who started basic training, quite a bit LESS than 50% have made it to fully licensed ATCO.

My ab-initio course started with 8 people, there's 3 of us left, all licensed.
There was a big group (over 15 people) of which just over half made it out of basic training.

So you shouldn't take any of these numbers as trying to be discouraging, but more as a realistic way of how things happen.

In any case, if you have what it takes to do the job and you dedicate yourself to the training, you will most likely make it. Almost everybody is going to try their best to help you get to the end of your training, but you'll still be the one who has to put in the (huge) effort.

[slamdoneck1991]

Hey guys.
An one question for those who pass DART! How do you find hard this kind of test for you. Cause, i can simply control more than 20 a/c in simulator ATC training, but in this test it's quite hard to just control 5-7 a/c... and now, i'm a little worried...

[Ivanofski]

But what is the major factor that leads to failure? Is it determination?! I'm that kind of person who invests a great deal of time in studying and always did extremely well in any exam. I'm also an ATC enthusiast so I don't lack motivation as well. I'm highly afraid about the aptitude that many people mention, because its something that you can't do anything about it.

[DiCampo]

That's the difficulty, probably, the aptitude bit. Either you have it or you don't. And since it is something that you cannot do anything about, you really shouldn't be afraid of it, but just accept it whichever way it goes.

The fact that you show a lot of interest and motivation will already get you quite a way towards your goal.

I've heard on numerous occasions that with an infinite amount of time and money, anyone can be taught to control aircraft. This would however not make you an air traffic controller, because that requires a skill set that either you do or you don't have... which is also why there is a set limit on the amount of time you can spend in each stage of training.

No amount of preparations for feasttests and similar will give you this skill set, and if they don't notice the lack of it during the interview, it will probably get found out quite quickly during training.

[Just do-it]

Hey, guys!
Can't smb inform me what do I have expect at FIEST 2, cause it's DRT, and what else?
Thanks!

[isa17]

Hello everyone!

I just passed the Feast part 1 and I can only tell you, that none of the programs (Skytest or feasttest) is helping. I also had a lot of friends who failed the test (6) even though they`ve practiced a lot. One of them didn`t pass the Learning and applying rules test, 2 of them failed the english and the rest failed the Planning ability test. It is very true.. you have it or not. None of the programs can help you. By the way, the real test is different than the preparation tools.

Good luck to all of you taking the test!

[aman.dvndr]

Hello mate,

Jus wanted to ask, how long it takes from your very first day of test till the actual time u start your training (of course if u pass it).

I am currently employed but looking for a career as ATC, so if i do go for the exam have to apply for the leave or to make some other arrangements!

Your reply would b really appreciable..........

[meonly]

Hey isa 17,
please be as kind as to let us know what the differences are between the real test and the preparation tools (Skytest and Feasttest.com)!

Thank you!

[elafrican]

Hello again.
A couple of things I want to say. First I want to acknowledge some peeps here that said some true stuff. You were right, no preparation in the world can make you ready for becoming a good ATC, or even for the test. I was very amazed to see that they differ by a huge amount. The only problem was that when I read all those 56 pages and everyone said "you are going to fail if you practice " and etc., it made my moral go down... So I apologize for being so offensive, didn't mean that. I just had the impression you want to discourage people.

edit: Nvm then, if some might find it misleading I won't say anything. Do as you like. Just wanted to apologize to certain people.

Take care and good luck at testing.

[maria31]

From what I've heard, the differences are important enought to count. Maybe the principle is the same, but the real test is like being live compared to being recorded.
I have some questions about Dart:
1. Have smb. noticed that sometimes the final result is smaller than all subtasks result? Why is this happening?
2. What means exactly distance to checkpoint minimized? I mean, how can I improve it?
3. What other tools are recommended for preparation, besides those 2 mentioned in the previous post?
Have a nice day!

[georgica]

@Elafrican. I don't know what you used, but I disagree. And I think your post is very misleading.

[isa17]

Hello again!

For some of us, Skytest or feasttest might be very helpful (because you know what to expect on the test day) but on the other hand, there are a lots who failed just because they practiced too much and they`ve learnt the exercises.

Maria, I have noticed the same thing about the final result at DART. I even tried several ways to calculate it.. but I cannot understand either.

[Unregistered12]

yes, but as an air traffic controller,you don't know what happens next!

and you don't know if you learn wrong rules. it's possible that you use the rules of the fake feast during the real feast because you are used to the fake feast and then you fail because of the fake feast test and not because of your skills.

[meonly]

@ some of you, please stop using the "fail" word.

Why are we talking so much about failing the FEAST instead of talking about passing the FEAST?
I'm not sure right now if this thread hasn't transformed into a "How to FAIL the Feast/DART by practicing on prep tools" thread, or it remained a thread that is about succeeding in taking the FEAST.

I assume that everybody here are convinced that "as an air traffic controller,you don't know what happens next!" but once you have PASSED the FEAST you do not become an air traffic controller right away. First you get trained for that and then you have to take and pass some difficult exams. The way to the ATC licence is loooong, but we need to hear from the people that know what controling is about that these tests are passable!

Have a positive attitude and post positive thoughts here, please!

I wonder if the people that posted in negative words have really taken the FEAST and know what they are talking about.
I would like those that have taken the FEAST or even the DART to let us know what they think about practicing prior to the real tests.
Also, if there are ATCs that have passed the DART please tell us if it is a wrong thing to practice before taking the real DART and if practicing had helped or even worse, it has contributed to a negative result in the test.

Thank you!

[BeT]

It has been posted over and over again by several current Eurocontrol ATCOs that practising for the tests is useless at best and damaging at worst.

I don't know how to spell it out any clearer.

The practice FEAST/DART websites seem to be a nice money maker for the software writers and not much else.

Most posts in the this thread praising the practice method seem to be from potential candidates who then go on to fail the Feast!!

Summary: Use the practice websites if you like - hell if it makes you feel better, why not!

Do not be under the illusion that they actually help you to pass.

Failure rates at Eurocontrol (currently) are high. Whether this is down to the demographic of the students they are recruiting, or the fact they have all been reading this thread and coaching themselves through the tests, I couldn't tell you!!

Please - dress smart, rest well and research the company for the interview. You will either pass or fail. Such is life.

Nothing in this thread will ultimately 'help' you pass the test.

And for those who consistently demand that no-one speaks of failing or such horrors - please join the rest of us in reality. The training process is essentially a gamble, be prepared for the fact you might fail and you wont go far wrong.

PS: 75% of my ab-initio failed the training.

[meonly]

Thank for your answer!

I assume you are an ATCO at EUROCONTROL since you know so much about it.

Also, perhaps you might have some interesting statistics about how many people have practiced before the FEAST, how many of those that have practiced have passed it and how many that have practiced and passed it have finally failed the training.
That would be some very interesting facts to know about.

Nothing in this thread will help me pass the test?
Then why do you think this thread is going on and on?

"dress smart"??? How much do you think dressing smart has ever helped anyone pass the FEAST? Come on!
Anyway, I agree with resting well and researching about the company but dressing smart...? That's a good one!

"The training process is essentially a gamble" ? Are you talking about the training done after you get to be admitted as a student at EUROCONTROL or the practice before taking the test? When I said training, I was referring to the training as a student and that God forbid to be "essentially a gamble"!

I'm preparing to pass and not to fail.
And let me tell you something more: the sun rises in the east - this is life, pure reality.

P.S.: thank you!

[Unregistered12]

as an example, in germany you are not allowed to pratice for the tests. if you have practiced, the psychologists will se it and you are out.
the reason is that most of them who have practiced for the tests passed the tests but failed the training(and in germany 80% pass the training).
it is possible that in germany more students pass the training because it is not allowed to practice for the tests. but it's only my opinion.

it is your decision if you practice, but believe me, it can't be useful when other ansp say that it's not allowed to practice.


and the thread is useful because you know such things as dress smart, know things about the company and you can find/meet other candidates.

ps: dress smart is important for the interview,not the feast.

[BeT]

Ill entertain you for a while - although you strike me as someone who wont be told.

- Why do I say dress smart? Because its an interview for a job, a very good job. Whether you realise it or not you are being assessed from the second you enter the building... how you dress, how you speak, how you interact. Seeing students turn up to the FEAST tests in shorts and scruffy T-Shirst is nothing short of embarrassing. I was interviewed alongside one other candidate back at my assessment; he was a Greek chap and I **** you not he turned up for the interview in shorts and t-shirt, flip flops and sun glasses. He thought he was Gods gift to the world - do you think he made it to the training?

- Frankly I dont care if you disagree with the notion that practicing isnt useful. Ive said already if it makes you feel better then do it, but please dont be under the illusion it will help you pass.

- Nothing in the thread helps you pass - well its a turn of phrase really. However seeing as most of the thread concerns itself with practicing ill stand by the statment. The thread goes on and on because new posters keep arriving and asking the same question over and over - people seem reluctant to accept adivce when they are given it.

- I 100% viewed my training as a gamble. I gave up a lot to move to a foreign country to start a job I had no experience of and I left everything behind with no certain future. How can that not be seen as a gamble? Im glad it worked out for me - but for most it does not.

- I dont have any statistics for how many practiced etc - how would I? I am a validated ATCO in Eurocontrol OPS, I am trying to help others as I was helped in the past.

You can take the advice as you see fit, but dont try refuting everything that is offered to you. It will make you look foolish.

[meonly]

Thank you for your reply!

Congratulations for making it to your dream job with EUROCONTROL! :D

I hope you can share some more of your experience with the people interested in taking the tests, starting the training and working with EUROCONTROL.
And hopefully it will help make a difference for someone.
In the end you are the ATCO.

[stefanos-c]

bet,why do you believe prep.tools are not useful?

[BeT]

ive covered that multiple times.

[maria31]

@BeT, 12.02.2012
The key-word in your post is: as I was helped in the past.

[RoAlex]

As the title says, I've passed FEAST I on Thursday, the 9th of February 2012.

May I say it was interesting, and that I passed it with no prior 'training', 'practice' or 'excercise'.

I took the test in Bucharest, Romania, as I'm applying for an ATC job here, in Romania.

Several of my fellow candidates we're bragging that they got really high scores at the feasttest.com tool or at the skytest tool and they went on to fail the actual TEST! From the 10 people in my group, 3 passed(including me). Most of the ones who failled said they have been practicing for the test, but so did the other 2 guys that passed. It seems I was the only one that didnt practice. And to be honest I wasnt rested enough either because I live 600 km from Bucharest and the plane from Oradea to Bucharest takes of really early(0600 AM LT).

One thing that might have helped me, but not to much, is that I've been working in the airline bussines for 5 years now. Started out as a check-in agent, moved to OPS, made it to Ops Supervisor, and ATC is the next logical step.

In conclusion, I can't really say that preparing for the test helps or not(after all, I passed without preparing and 2 passed after hours of preparing). I think that you either got it, or you don't.

HINT: Read/listen to the instructions REALLY carefully, they explain you exactly what you need to do. If you know your English and have a bit of a passion for puzzle solving you can most certainly make it!

[maria31]

RoAlex: there haven't been any exams on 9th of February. I just checked the announcements.

[RoAlex]

They havent updated the site. But the exam took place.
;)

[BeT]

@Maria31:

The advice given to me is what I now preach.

Rest, dress well, study.

[maria31]

RoAlex: Of course they didn't updated the site. But how did they announce you? All of you? It might be helpful for the others.
BeT: your advices are correct, by study meaning anything that we think may help, as you just said.
I now stop my posts on the forum, hopely we all have to study and work for exams, trainings and other activities.
Have a glorious day! :ok:

[RoAlex]

We were 10 or so at the English exam. They told us after we passed the exam that we will take the FEAST I on Wednesday and Thursday. Furthermore, a lady from the HR department called me later that day to confirm the appointment. I dont know if they called everyone...

[BeT]

By study I mean do research on the company - what it does, its locations, its business. These questions all get asked in the interview - if you have no answers it doesnt look good.

Ive said from the start you should do whatever makes YOU feel confident. But I have also been trying very hard to point out that 'coaching' yourself through the FEAST test is not a good idea in the long term.

SIMPLY the best thing to do is turn up and see if you can do it. If you somehow make it to the training or beyond and you dont really have the aptitude for the job (because you coached yourself through the test) it can very quickly become a bad situation; far from home, with people you dont really know, trying to learn a profession that ultimately you cannot do.

Why waste your time like that? Yet we still see it.

[maria31]

Not everybody takes the test for Eurocontrol. Most of us are taking the test in our country! This is why talking about the organization or other subjects isn't useful.

[BeT]

Well, this is the Eurocontrol thread...... and the point still applies.

[slamdoneck1991]

Going to have DART in march.
Guys, who passed it, can you write me PM, i have some questions...

[georgica]

Why in PM?? We all have questions about real DART vs prep tools.

After going through both major preparation tools, I suspect at this time that the DART cannot be cheated through these tools...I will perhaps change my opinion after taking the test...in 1 week or so...

[RoAlex]

georgica
I see you are from Romania, are you sure you're going to take the DART in 1 week or so?

Because the people from ROMATSA told us the DART test are going to take place in March, do you know something else?

Thank you,
Alex

[slamdoneck1991]

Does anybody know about mental mathematic in DART...'cause my friends, told me, that we will have some math's exercises...???
Who passed it, please send me PM, i have some questions...

[Unregistered12]

if you passed the required school level, you should laugh when you see the math tasks.

[slamdoneck1991]

I'm not scary about it...))) i don't see that variant in which i will fail...

[xnnfm]

Hi Guys,

I've been out of this forum quite long, since I've finished EC's selection.

Today I opened this forum by chance, just to look what's going on here.

So I've started my selection on January 2010 making FEAST I and II, then I made the final interview on late Feb.

The day after I came back to my country when they informed me about my failure.. What a shock!
After several days, the guy from HR who interviewed me, called to give me the "feedback". That was very kind of him.

Among variuos things, they decided not to take me on because of my english prep.

After that call I've started to collect all of those information to improve my whole preparation (I was about to start the selection for my national provider), the failure was not an option, so I've done a great effort to be the best candidate to have access to the Academy.

This morning I was reading your posts, about experiences, tips and advices, therefore, after a couple of years, I decided to give some "sharp" infos, hoping that you'll go there fully prepared.

The first thing comes from my mind bring us to the end. The feedback.

The clearest memory of that interview is when they asked me about my sentimental relashionship. At the time I was engaged and they asked me a lot of things about my girlfriend.. Quite a lot! Too many..

Months later I realized how much they invest on you, how they can't afford any chances of failure during training.

Be sure to keep in mind that they rely also on your "personal" situation, don't think that asking if you have a girlfriend it's just a "friendly question".

The HR guy didn't mention about my sentimental relationship in the feedback, but i'm firmly sure that my answer was important.

Be sharp, be awake, be yourself, be prepared:

Gathering infos about FEAST is a good thing: you don't have to be prepared as they teach you every single part of the test, but going there with a previous idea of what you're going to do is much better.

Try to make friendship,

You'll meet a lot of guys who are going to make the same selection, be together, especially the day before, helps you to keep calm..

Be confident,

Especially in the second phase, you'll have to do the group discussion and the prep. of a flight plan that you're going to explain to the board. You have to speak in front of people (psychologist), keep that in mind.

Before to go there, ask you some questions, like: Why I want to be an ATC? Can seems a weird question, but I'm sure you know the importance of knowing your personal answer.

The test are long, stressful, hard and quick... Be fully rested, be calm and act like you're going to start a marathon, not a 100mt sprint.

We were about 60 of us. Only 4 (including me) were invited to the final interview. As far as we know, nobody was took on in the company.

After two years, i've succeded the selection for my national provider. I'm still waiting to start the course.

EC was a great experience that helped me to face another selection in a better way.

Hoping I was of any help, don't hesitate to ask anything you want..!

xnnfm

[meonly]

Thank you xnnfm for sharing your thoughts about how these tests and selection in general should be approached.
Your post is very interesting!

Congratulations for your success!
How did you prepare yourself psychologically for the selection you have attended with your national service provider?
Where is the course going to take place? In Italy or abroad? How long is it?
Do you have any information about the structure of the course?

What differences did you find between EC's selection and your national provider's selection structure/composition?

How did you find the DART?
What do you think is important when taking the DART test, besides being fully rested, calm, self confident and aware of its complexity?

Thanks again!

meonly

[-aldebaran-]

Thanks a lot xnnfm,

yours was the first really helpful post since long in this thread.

For suggestions like "dress smart, rest well and research the company for the interview" I'll go to some general recruitment site I guess. You don't need a specialized thread in a specialized forum for that.

Thanks again xnnfm and congrats for your success!

[levelD]

As a reminder the thread was about Eurocontrol testing and interviews ...
Only from a certain moment was it polluted by FEAST specific questions , mainly for selections which had nothing to do with Eurocontrol.

Now if potential Eurocontrol candidates on this forum prefer to listen to 'advises' from people who have actually failed the Eurocontrol Selection as opposed to following the hints from 'insiders' (read the ones who have passed the selection AND have qualified as ATCOs for MUAC...fine!(:ugh:)

However , if I may , and assuming they pass the selection:hmm:they'll probably learn the hard way that smart ar:mad: have no place in an OPS room.

[BeT]

@ LevelD:

Im glad you said it, because I have given up.

It seems some people just cant be helped.

With the attitude displayed by some of the recent posters to this thread, if they somehow made it through the FEAST, their time in OPS will likely be short lived.

@ Aldebaran:

NOBODY likes a smart arse, and 'yes, but' people fall on their sword pretty quickly.

[pamboscha20]

Hello everyone

Did anyone know a website or a program like feasttest.com?

Please if you know something, in order to make practice it will be very useful for all the new candidates
Thank you

[Unregistered12]

It won't be useful for anyone!

Read the thread.

[xnnfm]

@Hi Meonly


To be sincere, EC's experience was vital in succeeding in my country.
Your brain, mind, psyco situation in general is very important to face a selection like this and training is important too as it allow you to improve.

EC's selection was my training in the end.

I went to my national provider's selection very prepared.

In fact in the final interview they asked me why I acted so confident in the group discussion..

Also a failure it's absolutely important to improve. I failed EC but I learned where I did wrong and what was the answer to their (and mine too) questions..
Like the most stupid one: Why would you like to be an ATC, and why here, with us.. etc etc..

Anyway, the course will take plane in my country, but not in my city, it lasts about 14 months.
I've already have some infos about the course structure as some candidates started in Oct.

Basically they start with some subject as AvioRights, Navigation, Wheater.. some people said they're boring.. time will tell..

Then there is the simulation part, divided in some levels. As far as I know, is a section with high failure rating... (3-7%).

the final phase include english prep, airplane sim and final exams..


The main difference between EC and my national provider's selection is that EC rely mainly on avio prep.

Every excercise includes and it's based on aeronautic preparation. It's more interesting if you like the context...

Two years ago there where the FEAST. I found it very strong in terms of energy consumption.
Everybody talks about be fully rested: it's true and you can understand it only when you experience it.
Are you a sportsman? do you know how hard is to do an endurance sport?
I was lucky in that way because when you're trained to sustain a long session of training for a race, you also (and mainly train) your mind to be in a perfect shape even after several hours of test.

Hope I was of any help to everybody..


When will you go to EC?

[meonly]

Thank you a lot xnnfm!

Your posts in this thread are so useful! At least for me, I feel so.

Understanding from other posts that practicing tests for FEAST doesn't help too much, I have begun questioning myself what other kind of preparation can be useful and your posts offered me the answers I was looking for.

I hope to be as successful as you have been.

I' not going for the EC.
I'm preparing for my national service provider's selection and I was very interested if I could do anything to improve my abilities for the DART, which concerns me the most. I hope I will be able to calibrate my efforts during the test, in order to invest the optimum doze of energy needed for completing the test from start to end, of course, with the positive result expected so much.

Also thank you for the info about the course structure.

Regards,
meonly

[slamdoneck1991]

Hey guys. Who had DART test, tell me please how many of non-contrlled(gray ones) aircraft did you have?
Next monday i'm going to have it, and a little worried about...i'm really good in simulator training, but i don't like this computer games where you should control a/c by the keyboard and mouse...

[tehblizz]

xnnfm,

may I ask you what kind of italian diploma's were accepted for EC, and was there a scoring limit (like for eg. 80/100 min)? Thanks

[malakajin]

Hey guys ! I took dart today and it was pretty amazing . I had some potential conflicts which 4 ended up to be real conflicts . Other tham that all was ok . No resets no missed checks few wrong sums . Any ideea if i ll pass?

[Unregistered12]

in greece or eurocontrol?

[slamdoneck1991]

Ahhhooowww!)))
I've just passed DART...if you have any question, welcome to PM)

[malakajin]

national provider but was wondering bout EC standards ! thanks unregis

[malakajin]

you have a PM slam

[maria31]

After almost 2 years of preparation, I passed (in my country which is a part of Eurocontrol) Feast I, but failed DART.
By preparation I mean: Skytest, reading about aviation, reading about the national organization, watching movies about aircrafts and accidents. In my country, I had to pass medical and psychological examination, English and Feast I to get to DART.
About Feast I I have to say it was pretty similar to Skytest and preparation was very important to me. Everybody I knew had prepared, but not everybody passed. After Feast I, there were about 60 of us who were tested for DART. We were 400 at the beginning, so I felt good.
About DART, well, it's simple: at Skytest level 3, I got 100% at 5 subtasks and over 90% at the other subtasks.
But in the real test, at level 6, I had the revelation: I don't want to do this. I don't want to be an air traffic controller. I got mad during the test and I thought: this is what I had prepared for? This is what I would be doing for the rest of my life?
Well, I don't want you to say: she failed, what could she say? So, I will get more precise about my failure.
At level 6, I couldn't hear anything in my ears (those numbers and letters) for a long period of time. I only could hear what my colleagues heard in their own. And I started to check the level of sound. But this got me mad, why wasn't it like it supposed to be? Why couldn't I hear anything like my colleagues did? And I finished first the DART, but with this feeling that I'm not made for this. I expected something more spectacular from level 6. I expected something interesting. And it was very predictable and boring. And DART felt easy, but only because I already had demotivated.
One more thing about the people I met during the tests is this: don't make friends with them. It will cut your concentration. Those who passed seemed aggresive, silent, perverse, individualistic, cold and proffesional. They will talk to you about something and think about a very different thing.
They will seem weak and encouraging but they are just perverse. They reject you with a smile on their lips, because they feel stronger.
And what do I think in the end of the exams? You have to prefer numbers instead of words. Do you like to count anything? Then maybe you're good for the job.
And the last but not the least: how did you find out about this job? The ideal thing is that somebody announced you because they thought you might be good at it.
So, indeed it is not about the Skytest, although the preparation test is very good, it is not about this forum because you have to love numbers not words, and it is not about the people you meet there but about the ones who choose you. Or not.
In my native language, we say about a job that you have to have a calling for this, but by calling we don't mean the skills, but the fact that somebody has to call you for that job, because they think you're good for this.
So, good luck! If you think that you want to spend the rest of your life in front of a boring radar, talking and doing everything like a robot, and you think that you can do it for that amazind pay, have a nice experience. I had mine, and I say no, no, no.

[Crazy Voyager]

I met a bunch of great people during my nats application, some passed and some failed, but the character traits you describe are not even close to those shown by the atcos I've met. Then again, sounds like you didn't want to pass any way.

[maria31]

Crazy Vayager, you are so right. At a certain point, I realised I don't want this. I can't say I could do it and I chosed not to, but although the test did't seem impossible to pass, I just had the feeling I'm not the right person for the job.
As to the type of people I met, well, this is my very subjective perception, which also might indicate I just had a terrible misunderstanding with myself when I decided to apply in ATCO jobs.
Good luck to all those who are made for this job! Good luck to those who are made for other jobs!

[roitos]

Not that I care, because I'm not applying anywhere, but I think your post would be so more useful and you would seem so much more professional if you just said that you lost your motivation instead of criticising everything and everyone and telling that it is boring to be in front of a radar because that is indeed exciting for other people.

Personally, I think that either you completely understood all the other people wrong or none of those 60 doing the dart are actually meant to be ATCs.
If there is one thing they tell you in the beginning of the process is that your interview and your assessment starts the moment you enter the building, so you should be as much friendly as you can and definetely get to know the other people. At least because some of them may actually be your future colleagues during training and co-workers later on.

What I interpret from that is that most people are naturally very nervous and they dont talk as much as they would in a relaxed environment. But saying they are there and all they want is to mislead you when they actually think otherwise, that is just something unthinkable if I may say. Specially because the application process is generally not a competition. Yes, they may have a specific number of openings, but if they find 3 or 4 more people perfectly suitable for the job, they will most of the times accept them or put them in one future group. It is very hard to find possible ATCos.

And as far as I can tell, the skytest or whatever it is called was definetly not a help for you, as it increased your expectations and made you stress out in the end. Things weren't going as planned, and of course, you started being stressed and noticing everything you shouldnt notice. I would say this is the real proof why not to use the preparation softwares. That and the price of them :D

Anyway, I wish you luck to your future career and should you want some free advice, please don't ever criticise others just because you failed because, with all due respect, that is what this post seems to me.

h&k*

[maria31]

:)
Yes, I said I had demotivated.
And I felt so sorry for the long efforts I made to study and to prepare for the exams and for all the nice talking with the people I met on messenger or in person. Because I have been sociable.
Maybe you are right and I'm wrong about the people I met, but I keep my opinion that when you are in an exam, you should keep in mind that you are there to pass, not to make friends.
From my past experiences, I passed exams where nobody smiled to me, where nobody seemed to like me, where nobody noticed me. And this wasn't the case. Some of them seemed so kind. Including a supervisor who smiled very warm to me :)
Well, I also hope you are professional enough to understand that after such efforts and hopes, I just can't be happy and not thinking that passing exams is a matter not only of skills but mainly of attitude.
Again, good luck to you all!

[johnsmith2012]

I was motivated, but I failed at DART after passing all other exams with high scores.
Now I cannot figure it out why I fail on the final part after passing all the medical exams, psychology test, english test and FEAST test. I got very little feedback and I am looking for help to get better for the future.
As feedback I was told that if 2 planes collides they will remain on the radar, not just dissapear as in the Skytest training software.
Can anyone help me with some information?
Thank you in advance.

[akis]

hi guys,
this is my first post! I want to become an ATCer more than anything!
Although some of you believe that practising in not a good idea...
i decided to practise.... think will make me feel more confident...
However i tried to find feasttest.com preparation tool but the webpage does not exist.
Does anyone use it?

[Unregistered12]

if you really want to know if you have the skills to become an ATCO,stop practicing!
believe in yourself, that is the best practice. if you love the jobs, you will cry if you pass the tests and fail the training because you passed the tests only because of your preparation!

[malakajin]

*cough* *cough* *cough**cough**cough**cough**cough**cough**cough**cough**cou gh**cough**cough**cough*

sorry im alergic to BS

brains are built to evolve every day , thats why we dont live in caves anymore . everything can be learnt and developed . EVERYTHING , so unregistered spare us with your wonderful , already known , obvious advices please . Ask any pshicologist about developing cognitive space , IQ , being spontaneous and other skills you think they cannot be trained.

[Unregistered12]

so mister supercool, why do you think they test you before the training starts instead of training you(because it's "possible" :ugh: )?

and why do you think they pay thousands of euros for psychologists to analyse your skills?

and why do you think all ansp's test their applicants?

of coouuurse because it can be learnt.


of course you can improvie your skills. but as an example:

you are not trained and can run 100 meters within 12 seconds,someone who has trained for some years can run 100 meters within 11.5 seconds.

what do you think. who is better? you without training or he with a lot training?

of course you!

and why is training useless? because they want to compare applicants without any experience. it is impossible to compare applicants with experience and applicants without expericenes together.

[BeT]

Unregistered: forget it, we've tried - they dont want to know.

Malakajin: another joker with ZERO chance of ever making it with Eurocontrol. This thread needs to be closed.

[slamdoneck1991]

Hey guys, why do you think, that people can not get and obtain skills for this job?
It's not born-skills, and you can get it during training!!!!!!
In ukraine, we have stupid system! we should pass the training at first, and than just before graduating we had to pass feast! and at first during my training i did not do best, but with time, i increase and improve my preparation!
In two month's i'm going to graduate, and will have simulator training test and knowledge test!
And i think, it doesn't matter how do you feel in the beginning, before applying, every one can obtain skills to be an ATC!!!
I'm sure that no one can sit in front of radar screen and perform ATC job! you should be trained to do it!!!!

[Unregistered12]

of course it's born!!!

why do you think they say it is born and they test you???? ahhhhhh...!

[jtor]

Guess it's possible to learn anything - provided you have enough time. However that is not the case with air traffic controller training. You have a limited amount of time and that is why they need to know if you are able to learn more or less complicated things considerably fast. It is better not to practice for the FEAST test because if you do not have the ability to learn new things quickly, you are not going to make it through the training. They are not looking for perfect controllers but people who can be trained to become one.

One more thing: an unsuccessful trainee asked reason for their termination: "You are progressing, but not fast enough."

[slamdoneck1991]

I don't agree with you!
The feast test is not good thing for assessment!
Some one can be really good in simulator training and other subjects, but other's can't do it well, but they good in such mental things like feast test!
A lot of people who passed feast package with me, they are not good in such subjects like meteorology, atc service, navigation! they don't have brain to study it!!! even english...we are the 4th year in cadets, and a lot of them dont have even the 3rd level of ICAO...but they passed feast...
some can pass feast and they are not able to controll 5-8 a/c at the same time, but another one didn't pass it, good in every subject and have more than 20 a/c undercontroll in simulator, and dreamed to become an atc since childhood!

[Unregistered12]

of course,the feast is not a good test because it is too easy! but what do you think, why do so many fail the training? because they practiced for feast.

in germany,we have a different system which is much more difficult, but nearly all who pass the test,pass the training,too.

when you have the entrance level for universities,you should be able to learn such things as atm etc. that is nothing which has to be tested by feast.
if a student fails the training because of something like this, he was too lazy.


and sorry,but you shouldn't be so ahm,unfriendly. your english isn't perfect aswell.

[slamdoneck1991]

Why did you decide that i am unfriendly?)
I just don't agree with you)
I spend a lot of time at father's job, at simulator training...and this test doesn't reflects the knowledge.. some could overtake you, just because you failed the tests...it's not "fair play"...

[slamdoneck1991]

And what about practicing...i practiced maybe for 4 months...and i passed it easily...i didn't find it hard for myself...

[Unregistered12]

because you are not a native speaker and in my opinion, your english is not that good that you could judge other people because of their english skills.

but that is my own opinion.

[slamdoneck1991]

No...i'm not native speaker...but i try to do my best...and i hate people who doing nothing and pay for exams, and have good marks.....especially for subjects, which are very important for ATC job....

[Corel Ian]

Hi everybody!

As I try to be an ATCO, I read everything I can find.
I was reading your argument (actually, more or less I ran trough the whole topic), and I need to tell you, both sides have their own right.

I accept, that you are able to improve your skills, but not unlimited. Trough training you can reach your own limit, which is, however, born. It's almost like having ear for music. If you do have it, you can be better, because you have a basic to build on. If you dont't, well, there is nothing to do.

That is exactly the conception, I based my preparation on. I knew, I don't use my brain enough, as my current work doesn't need it, so I played puzzle and other logical games, just to bring myself into sharp condition.
It worked, I passed FEAST I in my country.
Next week I go to DART, and to tell the truth, I'm a little bit afraid, and very excited :)

[Paraskevoulla]

Hello. I am taking the exam in about a month. Eurocontrol. I am practising on skytest and was practising on feasttest.com before it became unavailable. The 4 screens are numbered differently in these two and it is very confusing. If anyone took the test, can you please tell me how the screens are numbered?

[hopeforme]

hellow , i am new here , can you tell meu where have you been practicing ?some test or something please i really need some help here:sad:

[millerman]

I suggest you read the previous posts!!!
@ Mods - I think this is going round in circles, maybe it is time to close it down :eek:

[levelD]

Close it down ??!!?? :eek::eek::eek:

What if someone is desperate to find info on where,how,or when he/she should train and - let's not forget - on WHY it could be beneficial to do so ...
or not :ugh:

There could still be a question to be asked:E

Not too surprised the success rate has gone down the drain when I read the posts on here :cool:

Close it down , please , Close it down...

[millerman]

Especially as Eurocontrol aren't recruiting for at least 18 months!! :sad:

[hopeforme]

thank you , I "ll do so :)

[BeT]

Exactly - if potential candidates are so brainless as to not to be able to read a forum and accept advice, what chance have they got.....

[infoask10]

Hello everyone,
I practiced SDM(Strip Display Management) test for about 1 hour in skytest.com and i found it easy, even in the hard levels. I also tried DART which is so different from SDM but i found it difficult and I stopped. The problem was that I couldn't set the correct heading to a/cs so it was difficult to manage them. I recently heard that in second phase of the actual feast test the SDM test is now replaced by DART. I am very disappointed because i was hoping for the SDM. I don't understand why everybody say that SDM is difficult and DART is easy, for me it's the opposite. Can anybody explain me about changing the heading (find the correct heading to pass the checkpoints)? I assume the heading is based on the a/c you control, so its quite difficult to find the correct heading from the first attempt. Should I wait for the a/c to get near the checkpoint and then change the heading?

[Unregistered12]

stop practicing and read this thread.

the instructors will answer all your questions before you start with the test.

[Andrikos]

Congratulations to all Cypriots that past FEAST I - i passed and i am happy because i followed the instructions that eurocontrol send and also what some atcos here like BeT where instructing, and its true - No practice would ever help me to pass Feast test - you either can follow the brain wave or not - some tests were so fast that i thought that they were trying to fry my brain :O
Wishing good luck to everyone going for DART and to believe to ourselves - because even if you have it but you are the leader of negativity - it will not help at all.

[Paraskevoulla]

I passed the feast test and now I am getting ready for DART. Andriko, first of all congrats for your success on part1. You passed with no practice at all?? I practiced at feast.com, just to at least get an idea of what to expect. And I passed. I found the tests slightly more difficult and with a few differences.

I keep reading in this forum that practicing will not get you anywhere and stuff like that and I was wondering, how come you guys are so sure that it's either "you have what it takes or not", when Eurocontrol itself allows you to retake the exams after initial failure?

[Andrikos]

Paraskevoula - Thanks and Congrats to you too. The reality of how my brain worked was that i know is a very stressful and demanding job and i want to see if i just can do it without trying too much because i had many positions that were stressful in the past. The question is even if you pass DART and you get selected, if you are willing to make so many sacrifices e.g i will see my income going down if i follow this job.

[Unregistered12]

so you really think,taking feast for one time within two years is practicing?

if yes,i dont want to know how many years you have to wait until you can take the test.

[Paraskevoulla]

You go on and on preaching how some people are born with the abilities required to become controllers. And i ask you, if eurocontrol thought that was the case, then wouldn't a failure be a pretty good indicator that you simply don't have what it takes? Why do they allow you to retake the exams?
You are all very narrow minded. You should maybe consider the possibility that a person has the abilities but may simply need some practice to enhance what's already there. If there's nothing there, there's nothing to enhance. That simple.

[BeT]

As has been said (many, many times) - you have a certain opinion, we (as qualified controllers, working at Eurocontrol) have ours.

Ultimately, its impossible to say who is right and who is wrong.

However (and its a BIG however), we make comment and opinion after having gained relevant experience in the subject area...... you and others make comment based on emotion and a desire to succeed, which I suppose is perfectly understandable.

What is very frustrating is when after having given our advice (over and over and over again) individuals try to dismiss it as 'rubbish' or innacurate, yet have no meaningful basis to do so. Dont confuse your emotions with reality.

We gain nothing by posting on here, in fact we only stand to lose - our advice is well intentioned and will hopefully allow others to join us in a career we love. When the advice of 'dont practice' is given; its not to upset you, or counteract you in some way, or to make an argument. Its simply the BEST advice.

On a more basic level when individuals appear on the thread and ask the same question for the 1000th time, it becomes tiresome and annoying. If people cant be bothered to read or research, then this is not the career for you.

On an even more basic level, it looks like Eurocontrol are putting a semi-permanent halt on training (3yrs or so) - so none of you will be joining us anyway........:\

[Paraskevoulla]

Thanks for the advice. You are so kind. You have your opinion, i have mine.
Yet you did not answer my question. Does eurocontrol think that within 2 years a person magically gains the abilities to be an air traffic controller thus he is able to retake and pass the exams? If you fail now, you will fail after 2 years if you dont have what it takes right? So why do they allow you to take feast again?
Its a simple question really, I'm surprised you don't get it. As an atc you are not as sharpminded as i thought. Wow! I may have a chance as well after all!!

[Andrikos]

Unfortunately they dont allow me to reply in this forum. Anw Paraskevoulla dont have arguments with them. My opinion Is that you passed the test because you have what it takes for Feast I. I cant believe that someone with practice can trick that bombarding of questions especially in the last part.
BeT - we have our own school since we have many smart and successful Atcos. Eurocontrol is only providing the tests. So yes we are not joining you - we are joining us :)

[roitos]

the thing is, it may help you go through the feast but in any way it will help you through the selection proccess.
Congrats, you're through stage 1, let's see if you can go through the psychological tests and the interview as well. And please keep us updated as I think none of you guys who practiced in feast.com ever posted here your final result. Maybe i'm wrong, but no one got to the end?

Anyway, i still dont understand why people come to this thread when they're not applying to eurocontrol. This thread is not called feast... :o

best of luck*

[georgeperth]

Hi Paraskevoula,

I'm goinf for the TEST in September. Can you please give me a website for the training soft? Is it expensive?

[user4]

If they didn't want us to practice then they wouldn't tell us the name of the test. They also told us we can find information on the internet so that we know what to expect.

[Unregistered12]

what i said is what eurocontrol told me. and the psychologists of the german air traffic control said exactly the same, that you either have the skills or not and that it is not practicable.

and why do they allow you to take it again after two years? because the test is only a test, it is not the real training, so it is possible that applicants who passed the test fail the training as well as applicants who failed the test could have passed the training.
but the chances with the test are higher to succeed.

if you really think so, why don't you send an email to eurocontrol and ask how you can prepare? and what are the best preperation tools?


"It is understandable that people want to be successful in these tests, but preparing for them is not the same as the kind of preparation you might have made in the past for school examinations. In reality, you have to be confident in your skills and ability. Even though similar tests are available on the market, it would not be of any help to be successful in the testing procedure, because you have been able to practise, if you don’t feel really at ease with the cognitive and behavioural requirements. In these circumstances, even if you started the training, you might well fail later on. Therefore, we recommend that you do not focus too much on the psychological tests."

do you think they wrote this as a joke????

[Paraskevoulla]

Eurocontrol suggested feasttest.com as a preparation tool. And the people who called to invite us for part 2 suggested that we search the internet for prep tools on DART.

Anw, there is no point in arguing about this. All I am saying is that you may have the skills and that practice will improve those skills. You may pass with no practice whatsoever, but with practice you will definitely, in my opinion, achieve better results. On the other hand, if you don't have the skills, no amount of practice could make any difference, so practice or no practice, you will fail.
These are not skills that can be taught. No one can teach you how to fold a cube, you just have to be able to envision it. And since most of us do not have a hobby of folding cubes, practice will improve someone's spatial awareness. I do not agree that "practice makes perfect" but it sure makes "good", "better" and this is what I am aiming for.

[Unregistered12]

yes but you are not applying for eurocontrol. you will take or have alreay taken the feast test.

of course it is possible that your local ansp has other rules/opinions.

[BeT]

@Paraskevoulla:

(I haven't figured out how to work the "quote" function on this forum).....

Why havent I directly answered your question?

1. I wrote a reasonably lengthy and what I hoped to be a helpful reply, im so sorry (not) if it didnt specifically address the point you are for some reason trying to make.

2. Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, and it doesnt flatter you.

3. Honestly the question to your answer is; I couldnt give a ****! I've been through the process, I made it, im successful. The rules are the rules. Like it or leave it - your choice.

4. If your attitude in real life matches your attitude on the internet give up now (although I bet it doesnt because people find it easy to hide behind keyboards) - you will not succeed ANYWHERE in ATC with a smart arse attitude.

5. As metioned, this is NOT a FEAST thread, its a Eurocontrol thread.

You can make veiled (and not so veiled) insults all night long, I literally couldnt give a rats ass - ill drink a beer to you now, good luck with your applications - ill enjoy my time at the radar again tomorrow, you know, over here in the real world.........:ok:

[Paraskevoulla]

Calm down Bet. You know it's not good for the job

[Unregistered12]

It is better than practicing for selection procedures.

[Project Nadar]

You guys are drifting the topic.... I just wanted to thank bravo_victor07 for his detailed explanation of the test. It helped a lot..... Being a responsive person means take action and have a good planning. Looking into it is a good action..... Good Luck all.

[Paraskevoulla]

Hi there! When are you taking the exam? Congrats for passing phase 1 and best of luck for DART

[Svix]

Thought I'd take a look through this thread since I've just been through the NATS process and was wondering how they compared.

With regards to FEAST I recall the test itself stating it was unsuitable for more than one attempt as it's designed with little preparation in mind, that did make me wonder about those who fail the process and reapply. There are a lot of other tests and procedures though at least with NATS so it's not the be all and end all.

Also, I'm a bit surprised at the amount of hostility going on here. What happened to those level-headed competencies people? ;]

[Paraskevoulla]

could anyone pls tell me, in DART what is the minimum distance allowed between 2 aircraft in order for conflict to be avoided? what about collision? I would really appreciate it if somebody who has taken dart could clear this up for me!
thanks

[infoask10]

Hi everybody. Can someone answer few reasonable questions about DART? I have read that the priorities are:
1)Avoid conflicts;
2)Use less commands;
3)Pass checkpoints accurately
So my questions are: First of all I want to know if all applicants will have exactly the same scenarios. I don't think that someone must have only the right abilities to guide the aircrafts, sometimes luck helps. For example if you have many passive a/cs in your way and you cannot do anything to avoid them then you will have a conflict whatever you do.
Second I want to ask If our aircraft is not going to pass accurately through the checkpoint is it better to change the heading at last moment? If we don't pass accurately then we lose points,also if we give more commands we also get lower scores.So what is better to do? I have the same question about the order of the checkpoints.Sometimes the initial heading of the a/c will pass through a checkpoint with the wrong order and this will deduct points. Is it better to give command and change the heading? Also changing the altitude to avoid conflicts is important but If in our scenario is needed to do this many times then points will be deducted?I think the goal and rules of DART are fully explained but it's not clear how you lose points and what is the best to for getting high scores.

[maymit]

Hi everybody sorry for my poor english.I will take feast 1 in my country.If anyone who participated to the feast I in the colsest time can s/he say what part of feast 1 include? And also is skytest useful for feast 1 ?
thank you..

[Unregistered12]

hi, does anyone know anything about the future of recruiting new student air traffic controllers?

on the website it is said, that there will be no testing and training in the next years. does anyone know something about when it is scheduled to start the selection procedure again?
i heard that the next course is scheduled for 2015

[Unregistered12]

for everyone who is interested in eurocontrol: eurocontrol is not training for at least 4 years. at the moment, it is planned to train new air traffic controllers in 2017.

[jord]

I had understood they didn't require fully trained ATCOs until 2017 (so training would begin 2014-2015)? This was the last news I had heard at the start of 2012 - is your information new Unreg?

[Unregistered12]

my information is 8 days old. look at the homepage, it is not possible to apply for the next years.

a friend who works in maastricht said, that eurocontrol has too many controllers at the moment, that is why trainees get money for quitting the training.

[BeT]

Payment thing is not true.

[Unregistered12]

are you sure? One of the persons that are responsible for the training told him that. But it could be also possible that he missunderstood him.

[maymit]

Hi guys,

Just a quick question...

When doing the grid test... are the only two measurement values 10(node to node along vertices) and 14(diagnol).

Will we be expected to calculate the diagnol across 2 squares where the diagnol would be 22 ( basically 10^2 + 20^2 = X^2, where X is the diagnol )

[mir4ov]

Hi everyone. I have a little question and i'd really appreciate any sort of help. Is the DART on feast2 structured exactly as if you choose the 'Run all consecutively' scenario on the preparation program? I mean checkpoint, number of planes in each level and etc?? Thanks in advance

[Atcc]

Hello everyone,
I just found that forum and I wen trough most of the comments.
Thank you, in advance.
Since I am going soon to the stage one of the feast test I would like to ask people who already passed it if the can share some light on the issue with the timing especially on the coordinate system?What is the time limit there per question?I went trough wikipedia link of the test and I saw the limit for the spatial orientation but there is nothing about the coordinate system.If you can add something in addition to the English part as what it might contain further than the explanation on wiki.
I apologize if someone wrote about the time and the English but I went through most of the comments and I did not find it.And finally of the people who recently went trough stage one did any of you had to do the strip test? Or it is already replaced by the DART?
Thank you very much

[Atcc]

Hello Everyone,
I am new in he forum and I went trough most of the comments but I did not see anywhere the timing of stage one of the Feast test.I saw the link that you are referring to on wiki and there is information only about the cubes part.I would like to know for the coordinate system what is the time that you need to complete the task. Could you please tell me if the strip test are removed as it is said on wiki and it is replaced from the DART.If you can share some light on the English part as in terms of content? How long is the the whole feast 1 ?
Thank you

[Paraskevoulla]

Hello! I cannot tell you much about the time you have for each test since I do not remember. Feast I takes approx 2 hours to complete. Indeed the strip test is replaced with DART. Now for the English test. You listen to a conversation between 2 people and then required to answer some questions. You will hear dates, numbers, prices, locations, you need to be very concentrated and obviously have a good memory. Then, you hear a sentence, at some point a biiip and then you choose the correct word or phrase that completes this sentence. Again, a sentence and you choose the word that means the same or the opposite word with the word that is highlighted. There's also the reading part. You read a passage, you can go back and read it again if you want, but as soon as you proceed with the questions part, you are not allowed to go back. Generally the English test is demanding and a bit confusing, but you should not worry about time cause you have plenty of it!

[Atcc]

Thank you,
It seems concentration is everything.
It might be a repetitive question but is there any chance the DART test to be on feast 1 or it is always on the second stage? And what is usually the time distance between the two stages?

[KomGlad]

I passed feast 1 and the second test as well.

No math tasks yet so I am alright, but suddenly it hits me: should I even continue this when I know I suck at math?

Surely there will be some heavy math during the education? I don't want to waste my own time or the company's time.

[DiCampo]

That all depends on whether you are talking about mental arithmetics or full-blown maths.

The first, you will have to be able to do a lot, do it quickly and fairly accurately. The second, you won't need very much.

[jbba94]

Sorry if this has already been asked, but I seem to be finding contrasting information.

To apply, do I need just 5+ GCSE's or do I need A Levels?

Also does anyone have an idea when they are recruiting trainee air traffic controllers again? The website says: "For the coming years there will be no recruitment of student air traffic controllers", however there are posts on here in the recent weeks about attending stages. Is any recruitment near?

[Unregistered12]

most likely 2017.

[elafrican]

@ Elafrican:

You can do what you want and say what you want - its your life and your opportunity.

You have a group of people on here (both successful and unsuccessful) Eurocontrol trainees trying to offer unbiased and helpful opinion.

If you would like to ignore it, feel free. It will not bother any of us http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Lets see if you make it to the other side......

I wager not. Sorry for the 1 year delay in response BeT. I believe you lost your wager considering I got in with a very decent score I might say, even if not at Eurocontrol, the tests are the same in difficulty.
In my opinion there are 2 types of ATCs. Those that are born(like a friend of mine here at courses that has been playing with aircraft simulators since he was a kid) and those the become one(like me, who have to study and practice for this). Point is, you can practice for tests as much as you wish, either you got it or you don't. Heck apparently I got it.
See you on this side and on frequencies or data-link.
Cheers.

[BeT]

So, just to clarify....

Are you now a qualified Air Traffic Controller?






I suspect not.

[levelD]

elafrican , radio check...??

[raikks]

What's the value of gridline spacing in Feast's coordinate system test? Is it 10 NM as it is in Skytest or it's different? Thx.

[LordTod]

I want to ask about the DART and "strip management display" are in second part of the FEAST, or DART is in first part.

[Catalin]

I have a question, in a few days i'll take feast fase 1 and i don't understand the exercise coordonate system test, can some one explain iti to me
thanks

[Lon More]

I have a question, in a few days i'll take feast fase 1 and i don't understand the exercise coordonate system test,

Probably too late, but have you read through this thread or tried googooing it?

To re-iterate, if you've got what it takes you'll have no real problems with these tests.

[elafrican]

Yes sir, I am OJT ATC. Doing pretty well too.
I still don't approve to the fact that you tell them to not practice. What they practice is still very different to the whole exam, the training and most of all, the real life situation. If someone is not cut out for this, they can practice all they want, they won't pass. People are stubborn, they come here to get an answer, telling them "don't do that, you will fail the training", will only make them to say "yea yea w/e, I'll see when I'm there". Also, training the brain is normal. If only "pure breeds", people that never ever trained their brain, memory, attention worked at EC, well....my guess is that they would have only a handful of them in the whole Europe.
My best training was playing MMoRPGs since 2004, so I got my attention very well formed, plus I have a decent brain and memory, enough for the job I guess.
You don't know if you're qualified until you take the test and wanting to know what's to be expected of you is natural. Even at regular interviews, for like McDonalds, they probably ask you if you know what the company does for a living, so they can tell if you know what you're getting into.
I for one, didn't know that. My aunt(who is an ATCO) told me "take the test, it's a very nice job". That cleared everything for me... and, at least here qualified ATCOs don't really talk about their job to the full extent, since most of it is classified.

Anyway, to end this huge chapter, and I strongly emphasize...
Practicing the test DOES NOT mean you are going to become an ATC or if you do become one by a miracle, survive in this world.
Even at a middle size traffic TWR, the resposability per plane is HUGE, you start dreaming at night scenarios and what not, not for the weak(well can be for the weak if you don't really care about others or you and are just in it for money).
So again, practice, but if you're just stacking bricks without a solid foundation, the building(you) will collapse.

So BeT, since I've become older and wiser, I'd like to apologise if I insulted you in any way, I admit I was a bit angry that you, any of you, told me I will not become ATC because *insert reasons*. I guess you were only trying to help, but as I said, stubbornness kills or helps, depends.


Cheers and I wish you all 0 red screens/mayday's/pans and everything negative.

Have a good day.

[sain]

So are you now on the atc course? I am deciding whether to practice tests similar to feast, could you please give me some reasons for and against doing this?

[Jagohu]

elafrican: would you please stop all this "I guess I'm actually great" stuff at least until you actually have an ATCO licence??? FYI being on OJT doesn't mean that you made it... Many people are chopped on the OJT, so please don't be so overconfident or may I say arrogant, by telling people big truths (invented by yourself, I presume?) about being "born to do ATC" and things like that.

Thank you and good luck with your training.

[GlobalJourney]

Well said V!

[GlobalJourney]

For those who haven't seen already, Eurocontrol have started a recruitment process to take on just 8 ab-initio trainees, to start in Spring 2015.

Become an air traffic controller | Eurocontrol (http://www.eurocontrol.int/articles/become-air-traffic-controller)

[BeT]

Im surprised the above post hasnt garnered more interest.

8 vacancies for 2015. Initial course in Toulouse.

Next recruitment will be 2017 at the earliest.

Grab it whilst you can!

[citabria06g]

Any info on how Toulouse is working for Maastricht? Are the trainees coming out better or worse than from Lux? People in Muac satisfied? What were the pass rates for the last two AI courses?

[BeT]

The 2015 course will be the 1st complete AI course in Toulouse.

Its the test AI for the future 2017+ recruitments (which if predictions stay true will be 20+ student controllers per year).

[Healeypilot]

Be warned if you are thinking of applying that the Toulouse course is expected to have a VERY high failure rate. It has almost half the amount of simulation time than the Lux course with much less complexity. The pass rate at Toulouse will probably be 100% so that ENAC can impress EUROCONTROL but those students will be well below par to start Maastricht training.

[BeT]

To be honest the failure rate from the last few years of AI courses has been worryingly high, so the risk of transferring it to Toulouse is somewhat reduced.

Its a shame political BS gets in the way of doing the sensible thing - this would have been the perfect opportunity to bring the whole thing in house @ MUAC.

If you are good enough, you should make it. If you are borderline, ill admit your chances of 'getting through' are reduced..... everybody @ MUAC wants trainees to pass, so if you make it through the front door in Beek you have a strong chance IMO.

[Dante1991]

Hey guys, If I understood correctly, the recruitment will be held in Toulouse, correct? Why is that? I thought it will be held in Maastricht. Why the change? Anyway, I applied too,, and would like to ask you sth, will some preparation do me any good for the FEAST? I mean, I am only preparing solving some logical math problems, and studying something from the AT-SAT book. I know that for FEAST there is no real preparation, but will the mentioned things do me any good?

Tnx,,
p.s: I am an ATC student at Faculty of Aeronautics in Slovakia, but it is not certified by any institution, it is just for preparation.

[maumau92]

Hey guys,

I'm new here and I just wanted to see if anyone else has applied for the new training at Eurocontrol and if they got any feedback yet.

And I just wanted to check if anyone has any information about changes to the selection process (there are no group tasks etc. mentioned on eurocontrol.int) and if anybody knows something about the training at ENAC in Toulouse.

Thanks guys (and girls)