HyperMerged: Q Engineering LAME EBA VIII/Industrial Strategies

[brakepac]

I am part of brissy heavy and have like several others been on chissy leave for the past 2 weeks.
I can tell you all now that I know exactly who the culprit is and when I get back on Monday the excrement in question is likely to find himself under some exceptional pressure to explain why. He may even find himself closely examining the side of the hanger wall for defects.
This swine has been asking for what is about to be unleashed upon him for several years now and I and many others at H3 are sick to the core with him.

The time has come for he who breaks rank to face the consequences

[Deck Zone]

Brakepac. Stick to the rules mate. Do not do anything that could see you being accused of intimidation, harassment etc. You may feel good for a moment but you'll be the one that'll be in the firing line, not them.

[amos2]

Let me tell you why you blokes are not gonna win this dispute!

1. 40% of you will scab.
2. The company will employ strike breakers.
3. The public will turn against you.
4. The company (obviously) is against you.
5. The Guvmint' will be against you.
6. The pilots, cabin crew, traffic officers, dunny cleaners...you name it, will all be against you.
7. You want 5, the company has offered 3 plus 1 in super, the weaklings amongst you will buckle so quick over a piddly extra 1 it will be all over in a week!

So, is what I'm saying valid...
well, I think it is, and you know why?...

'cause back in 89' when Ansett and Australian airlines brought in foreign registered aircraft crewed by foreign pilots to break the domestic pilots dispute, guess who serviced and signed off on the part twos'...

You guys!! And that shows your character...which aint that crash hot!

Hey, Hobo, why did you take three three years to work that out. Bit thick, are we? :ok:

[Hugh Jarse]

6. The pilots, cabin crew, traffic officers, dunny cleaners...you name it, will all be against you.

Amos, I disagree. All professional groups within QF have been subjected to similar tactics and pressure by QF management over several years. All are sick of being treated like something one scrapes off one's shoe. The engineers are but the latest group to come under attack.

I suspect the engineers are 110% supported by the other professional groups within QF. Unfortunately they can't do much to physically support them.

As a lowly Dash Trash pilot, I wish you good luck with your protected action.:ok:

[MENDAERO]

1. 40% of you will scab.
2. The company will employ strike breakers.
3. The public will turn against you.
4. The company (obviously) is against you.
5. The Guvmint' will be against you.
6. The pilots, cabin crew, traffic officers, dunny cleaners...you name it, will all be against you.
7. You want 5, the company has offered 3 plus 1 in super, the weaklings amongst you will buckle so quick over a piddly extra 1 it will be all over in a week!

1. 87% vote yes to PIA
2. If they can get any meaningful numbers
3. Who cares about the public they have short memories
4. We don't care
5. the Gov has said no to 457 visas
6. Not from the support I have seen on this site
7. it's been 13 months, we are in no hurry
8. go away:ok:

[brakepac]

Deckzone, Thanks for the obvious advise, :ok:
Your absolutely right, :D
It did feel good though to release some tension in relation to that cowboy loser on this thread.
I will try and keep my hands in my pockets come Monday am.

Cheeers mate :\

[grouter]

hey amos, keep it coming. Nearly laffed myself off my pedastel when I read your post. Identify yourself to your local rep and let's laff some more. Oops forgot you are a management stooge. In which case let's see if you are so gung ho when a/c stop coming and going

[Deck Zone]

Brakepac. My pleasure, we need to stick together.:)

[numbskull]

Is it just an overtime ban at this stage or are you guys also not going to carry out higher duties?

Could someone please post the union notice for the ex heavy guys who are no longer part of the union and don't have access to the workplace or website.

Stay united guys, Good Luck!!

[Spaz Modic]

:E Heh Heh. Heh Heh Heh! HAAA HAAA HAAA!
Lame's with BALLS? AHAAA HAAA HAAAA HAAA.
Oh God! Pardon my mirth. HAAA HAAA HAAA!
For how much? 1%? AHAAAA HAAA HAAA!
The cockpit is ROCKIN and ROLLIN'!
AHAAA HAAA HAAA;):D

[grouter]

Thanx for support numbskull.
Wed. higher duties bans start and then wed week (14th) o/t bans. Not a strike, and tell all this. Stop work will be purely as a reaction if qf get heavy handed. We are in no hurry, but would like a resolution. 22 eba meetings in 13 months is probably close to as many as is needed for a resolution.

[Deck Zone]

Spaz Modic. OK, I'll bite. Find another thread and quickly. The likes of you we don't need. Were you in any way involved in the 80's Pilots strike? :yuk:

[MENDAERO]

REUTERS: Australia's Qantas yet to reach pay deal with unions

ABC NEWS: Qantas engineers plan 'low level' work bans

From Paul Cousins

"At this time stop-work meetings are only going to take place if we believe one of our members is unlawfully stood down due to his stance on, say, refusing to work overtime,"

From David Cox

"We've been advised that from next Wednesday they will institute what I'd describe as a low-level overtime ban,"

I don't believe at this stage higher duties or secondment bans will be used, however O/T bans will start on the 9th.

[Hardworker]

Strange I would have thought do all three, no secondments, no overtime and no higher duties...all at once I would have thought would be appropriate...
Still something is better than nothing....hmmm lots of A check coming up

[600ft-lb]

Amos
So, is what I'm saying valid...
well, I think it is, and you know why?...

'cause back in 89' when Ansett and Australian airlines brought in foreign registered aircraft crewed by foreign pilots to break the domestic pilots dispute, guess who serviced and signed off on the part twos'...

You guys!! And that shows your character...which aint that crash hot!1) It's called secondary boycotts, which are illegal and not worth the personal legal action that WILL be taken against you.

2) It was a pilot dispute, at the end of the day you all got what you wanted and the ones who scabbed were put on a list.

3) We don't expect any other employee group to sympathise with us in a manner which is a secondary boycott. This industrial action is all legal and above board.

4) 18 years ago was a long time, most of the engineers from those days don't exist anymore. The engineers left at Qantas are the ones who are under mortgage stress and/or have seen their real wage drop consistently over the last 10 years.

5) Get over it mate, it was nearly 20 years ago. Move on. Build a bridge. You are a sad case.

[speeeedy]

6. The pilots, cabin crew, traffic officers, dunny cleaners...you name it, will all be against you.

amos2, you are way out of touch on this one (and most of the others in your list). Legally we can't do much, but I can assure the ginger beers that from my first hand observations there is overwhelming support and goodwill from my fellow Pilots and also the Cabin Crew.

I predict that Tech and Cabin crew might become fairly picky about what constitutes a defect over the next few weeks????

[chemical alli]

amos, lets look at the facts
1. it was australian airlines and ansett(not qantas in 89)
2.you resigned onmass due to being **** scared of losing super and entitlements
3.once you resign asta lavista
4.scabs cost the government a fortune and where are they now?
5.the likes of yourself probably didnt support your brothers in arms
6.we dont care if bottom feeders like you support us or not
7.when we win i am sure you will stick your hand out at the next eba
8.build a bridge
9. i am so tired of baits like yourself that the best form of attack after this post is just to ignore you.

[amos2]

Tech and cabin crew will send you down the drain so fast you wont even see it coming!...

they will "embrace" the "good guys" who are "saving the company"!!

as you have done before!!


I notice no one has yet challenged me on the fact that you "embraced the good guys" all those years ago!

Why is that?

'cause you did, that's why!

And you know it!

[chemical alli]

you idiot .without a plane to fly or crew how you gonna send anyone down the tubes .unless you will be playing hangar pilot,denile is not a river in egypt.
keep talking trash amos,just dont ever be in a bar with a gingerbeer

[numbskull]

Amos, I see by your profile that you are a Jetstar legend pilot.

We all know what pathetic conditions you are prepared to accept.

Other aviation professionals have a higher value of their services. No need to ridicule those who are prepared to stand up for themselves just because you aren't!!

[The Mr Fixit]

Whoa


TROLL ALERT !!!!!

[NAS1801]

The stooges just keep on coming!

The dick#head in BHM trying to divide the LAME's.... is he the same one that inspected a cargo hold on DQ-FJC and found nil corrosion..... only for it to be grounded months later in NZ due to corrosion in the hold? Another LAME who inspected the other cargo hold found/rectified corrosion and this was not a prob when the AC was grounded in NZ?

Seems like he covers his ar$e by going under desks.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Just to correct an earlier post.

No overtime on your day off from 0001 hr on Wed 9th January.

Why only ban O/T on days off? So they can't use an untested law to grab 4 hours pay off you for refusing.

Higher duties bans, secondment bans and stop work meetings up our sleeve for a rainy day.

We feel that a combination of O/T restrictions and the loss of good will that we are already seeing will be enough to slowly strangle the airline, with or without scabs. Make the most of it guys and start compiling that scab list. They will be remembered.

[N.E.R.D.]

Gentlemen, Ladies.
Ignore Amos2, there is much bigger game to catch. If we collectively ignore the agitator he will go away.
It's been said before, stay cool! We all know what we need to do, don't let individuals like Amos2 distract us from the real agenda.:ok:

[Short_Circuit]

Hey Spaz Modic,
there is a drug and alcohol policy at QF. You would obviously fail any of those tests....


The cockpit is ROCKIN and ROLLIN'!
AHAAA HAAA HAAA
It appears that already A/C are rocking and rolling off bays by tugs, busted,
not to return to service for hours / days already.


Senator Evans told The Australian yesterday he would block any attempts to use foreign labour to thwart domestic strike action.
"The Government will not allow the 457 visa scheme to be used as a device to overcome an industrial dispute,'' he said in a statement.
"The 457 visa class is designed to meet temporary skills shortages where Australian-based labour cannot be sourced.'' := :D

[domo]

Just to correct an earlier post.

No overtime on your day off from 0001 hr on Wed 9th January.


thanks for the update what about the secondments are they still coming back?

[amos2]

The union would be proud of you Numbskull!...

if you had the backing of the Jetstar pilots before your ill advised post, you certainly don't have it now!

But, hey...why am I not surprised!

[BLF Goon]

You two drongos seem to have the same intellagence,you should start another thread and talk s:mad:t to each other.Your comments are not wanted here.Let it be known the majority of pilots are backing us.:D

[Work-4-It]

Let it be known for all the MANAGERS out there, victory is ours. If we stick together, work togethor and be brothers in arms we will win this battle. We cannot be defeated, lets use our skills, knowleadge and experience of aircraft to put these QF destroyers in there place. Let us remember that this is not only for us but for the future of all who will become LAMES. This is the turning point for our industry, lets set our goals and work collectively to achieve them no matter who may try to test our might, lets protect our great industry from these vulgar, peasent scum managers.
We have voted and this is to the death.

[indamiddle]

hi guys,
good luck from a flight attendant with your tactics.
how can f/a's help in a legal and safe way?
any ideas gratefully considered, such as use of ccl etc.
a reply on this thread and perhaps faaa eba 8 thread please

[NMDhold]

Greetings, fellow aviation professionals!


You may be aware that the lames at Qantas are about to start protected industrial action,

One possibility for retaliation by Qantas management would be to employ strikebreakers to fill our jobs, if there is a stop work.


These strike breakers more than likely will not hold complete qualifications on the aircraft you fly.

Most likely they will be familiar with lower technology aircraft, or only be partly trained.


These Engineers may be given "Transit Authority Approval"

This basically means that the Transit Authority holder may release aircraft to service as long as there are no defects requiring a fully qualified engineer to make a determination of airworthiness.



Lames around the network would really appreciate that if it gets to this point......


Make sure that if you find a defect during your normal duties......

especially if you think it's trivial or you're not sure......



Put it in the book :)



hopefully this simple action will blunt the effectiveness of the strikebreakers ;)


Thanks to all,

Yours in professional fellowship,

NMDhold



Edit......

Fellow Lames,

I have been unable to post this letter across multiple threads because it was pointed out by a moderator that it could be seen as spamming the forum.

It might be an idea to print off this post or something similar and place copies where Flight and Cabin crew may peruse it.


All the best,

NMDhold

[whatdouknow]

So no "Day off" O/T from 1201 am on the 9th of Jan, that would include all ports including Tulla, Syd, Per and Avv?

Is everyone on board?

[G Cantstandya]

I'm sure all QF group pilots will be behind the gingerbeers 100%

This group of scumbag greedy managers need to be sent a message and it's about time that a group of workers had the balls to stand up to them....

Now that the liberal government is gone lets hope some of the power is returned to the workers of this country!!

Afterall we are the ones driving qf's huge profits every year!!

[Talkwrench]

G'day whatdouknow. Report from BNE Heavy: The vast majority are most definitely on board.

[Dick.Hayes]

Perth are 100% onboard.
Everyone really needs to stick together.
The EBA will eventually be agreed / signed and only the level of unity and commitment will determine how good those conditions will be.
All staff are entitled to their annual leave each year so these Leave bans CANNOT be sustained. In fact, the more leave we are not taking, the worse it looks on the QF books. The bean counters hate seeing our leave and 20th days accumulating.
If you need time off, see a doctor and save your Annual, 20th days and LSL for another time. Most of you have huge amounts of sick leave saved up incase it is really needed. You can’t take it with you when you go and I reckon a lot of you really need it now. Go See the Doc.
All the best.

[satos]

I recommend Doctor "How Long".
How long do you want off.

[rudderless1]

If we settle for 3% again whilst wage growth is 4 1/2 %-5% and rising and has been above 3% for a long time! Do the sums, its death by errosion and must be stopped.
$2000 last year is the 2% difference add that to a further $4160 due another loss of 2% = $6180 after only 2 years with 2% less. After 3 years its $6491
eg at the end of
2006 $100 000 $100 000
2007 $103 000 $105 000 $2000
2008 $106 090 $110 250 $4160
2009 $109 272 $115 763 $6491
# $12651 further out of pocket in only three years compared to the average wage inflation on a $100 000 income. This is additional to what has already been erroded!
When will people accept for our skill, and a 24/7 shift etc we are not paid that well.
More than half the LAME's are less than level 9 and cannot move past it.
The basic pay of a level 9 is $77 000. To be a level 9 generally you hold a number of licences to this figure add shift between 7% and 38%.
Single licence holders in the shed are well off the money at around $75 000 to $80 000 all up for their skills and shift! :sad::=

[The cougar]

So L$# W$#KER strikes again. I seem to remember when a lot of people in QF engineering thought it a bad thing if this puppet gets a license in the first place. Hold tight BNE heavy i think we are finally united except for a few bad eggs. They have no where else to do their 330's.

[airtags]

very valid point rudderless - the 3% corporate mentality affects everyone and with Short Haul CC and others also commencing EBA negotiations it's time for all QF people to scrum down and back the push.

Also bear in mind that 3% is not even in line with the current notional/comparitative inflation quo; - something that the long haul CC appeared to have overlooked in their deal. (NO correspondence pls).

Happy to support & will gladly continue to (responsibily) put the condition log to good use.

[rudderless1]

Cox is a 3rd tier poor performance and ability manager
His pay $1.89 mil his bonus and not the first is 500 000 qf shares.
His BONUS alone equates to the difference of 2% for 1500 LAME's and they say it with a straight face!
Time for recognition of efforts by others Dave!:ooh::hmm:

[rudderless1]

That's $40 000 a week just to turn up! An additional $60 000 a week to screw those under him doing all the work. This is all achieved by lies and intimidation not by BUILDING A BETTER BUSINESS AND ENGAGING THE WORKFORCE!:ugh:

[Short_Circuit]

From The Australian, 5 Jan 2008

Mr Cox said the meeting had reviewed a range of issues the parties had been talking through for almost a year. He said Qantas had no intention of casualising the workforce, changing the definition of an employee or "going over the top" on part-time workers, and he believed the company could back that up with language in the agreement.
Trust us. :rolleyes:

Heard that one a few times before,

never again should we trust THEM!:=

[Hobo]

From the Melbourne Age 5/1/08:-

"If the serviceability remains high then you probably won't see a lot of effect, but if it starts to decline and you have a couple of aircraft go to the US, then they obviously won't be able to draw on extra manpower, and that is when some aircraft may need to be grounded."

Watching this from the UK, I would note the following:-

It looks like Mathew Murphy knows as much about aviation as the infamous Simon Calder of the Independent here in the UK. I imaging QF have a couple of aircraft in SFO and LAX most days. Presumably he meant 'a couple of aircraft go US'.

Why don't Quantas don't publish anything about this on their website. The last press release on the site is from 20th December. Why are they hiding this from the fare paying public? Is it to create maximum disruption and be able to blame the LAMEs. BA are always very hot on giving any intenal or external industrial action front page treatment on their website. This reassures the punters that at least they are aware of the problem, and are thinking about it.

Good luck to you all, even though it might screw up my forthcoming staff travel arrangements, we are right behind you.

[Mustangbaz]

Q.A.N.T.A.S :ugh:

[amos2]

So, tell me, hobo...

wot's your connection with 4567? :ok:

[amos2]

This whole thing comes down to 1%. Is that correct?

Which is 13 bucks after tax on 100k.

All this nonsense for 13 bucks a week?

You gotta be kidding!

If you want to be taken seriously, go for serious money!

13 bucks is a joke!

[MENDAERO]

This whole thing comes down to 1%. Is that correct?

......No.......

[MENDAERO]

The QF005 was cancelled today, Engine change. When asked if it could be changed in time for a departure before curfew, the answer was no.

The QF001 should probably have left by now, only 3 hours late.

[amos2]

...so tell us what is does come down to!

[No SAR No Details]

No nasties plus 5% for the H/M flexibilities.

[MENDAERO]

5-3=2 the maths is simple, the EBA negotiation however isn't.

There are three clauses the company want inserted into the EBA which in their current form are show stoppers. These are:

1. Definition of an employee
2. Dispute settlement procedure
3. Flexible working arrangements

The second two have reportedly had some good movement on the companies part.

One sticking point with the members has been the third clause, the company wanted unlimited part time and casual labour, however they do not utilize the current 5% available to them, why should we go any where near unlimited.

[AEROMEDIC]

"One sticking point with the members has been the third clause, the company wanted unlimited part time and casual labour, however they do not utilize the current 5% available to them, why should we go any where near unlimited........."

..........Because they have a cunning plan that can never fail......(they think)
They just want to have "flexibility" they will use at another time for "re-structuring". This plan will undermine LAME conditions and pay to reduce costs and therefore allow QF to remain competitive they would say.
The reality is they want Qantas LAMES to pay for the competitiveness and pay the managers and board members even more bonuses for getting the troops to agree to this.
Give them NOTHING. They have already been given enough. In return, the salaries have been downgraded and additional responsibilities included to all the others that LAMES have to carry.

Give them NOTHING.. ZILTCH... ZERO.. NOUGHT... !!!!

:mad::mad::mad::mad:

[maximus]

You gotta be kidding!

If you want to be taken seriously, go for serious money!

That's right Amos, 29% seems about right, that'll work :rolleyes:

[Millet Fanger]

Amos2: [QUOTE][/All this nonsense for 13 bucks a week? You gotta be kidding!
QUOTE]

You are absolutely correct Amos2! How can Qantas treat it's LAME's like this? They have to be kidding. If fact, not only it's LAME's but all of it's staff.
It is a totally reasonable amount considering the $1.4 Billion profit that Qantas is forcasting for this year ($1.6 Billion if you believe the financial markets, who seem to know the Qantas business better than it's own management). Can anybody remember the APA bid and how well our management performed then?
It's is good that you raise management's pathetic attitude, Amos2. They have got to be kidding!!

[chemical alli]

easily fixed
1.no xpt agreement
2.no unlimited p/time /casuals
3.two points for every lame
4.super contributions for all
5.no caps on grades or overgrade adjustment for lvl 13/years of service points acrued and paid as overgrade above lvls12&13
6. no quotas
7.5x5x5 negotiated
8.commmitment for A330 onshore signed and delivered
9.f class stravel
just a thought.

[Capt Kremin]

You guys won't have to worry about support from the pilots. Anecdotal evidence so far suggests that some pilots aren't aware of the bans on secondary boycott's and are actually risking getting themselves into some strife in their zeal to help.

To the pilots, play it cool guys. I would suggest that simply writing everything up and exhibiting patience when things take time to fix is probably all that will be required. Unless you are confronted with a scab of course. I'll be going through any paperwork and MEL's presented by same like a dose of salts.

[chemical alli]

capt.
all you fly boys have to do is carry an extra pen incase you run out of ink.
be cool ,dont put yourselves in harms way ,just write em up.

[Reeltime]

....and write 'em up we will!!!

[darktorque]

As long as the paperwork is clean you boys can do what you want...

[Kiwiconehead]

1.no xpt agreement

What is this? It's come up a couple of times during the thread.

What does it relate to - seems to be a major issue from comments posted.

[chemical alli]

exactly ? kiwi what does anyone know about it ? did it have an explanantion on your photocopied eba A4 handout ?(no)
google it and it will explain ,bad karma

[whatdouknow]

XPT = Company Periogative to do however they please...without consultation or without recourse from the Commission.

Not a good industrial hearing that ruled against the worker!

Not just the pay, there is much more too it.

Roll on the 9th.
Write em up and follow the Manual and Policies.

[SpannerTwister]

Don't fold...Cox isn't on the ropes yet, but he now knows he's up against a formidable opponent....

Don't fall for a "sucker-punch". A cash bonus is a once-off payment, OK, it may make up for **this years** lost money, but a real rise is there forever....

Don't be pig-headed, If we have to let them save face, take 3% PLUS four TRAINING points, uncapped, PLUS Superannuation tweaks.

Don't let them get their "XPT" clause in.

Don't let them get their "casuals / part-timers" clause in, As others have pointed out, they don't need this clause, they aren't using the limited numbers that they can use now.

Don't forget to raise "Holds" / DRR's. My calculation is that one hold raised on T/R is going to cost at least 30 minutes at some later time, and that's to clear an *cough* unimportant one. Remember...One transit ...One "Hold"

Don't waver....We must all stick together :ok:

SpannerTwister.


Read Post #787 by rudderless1 on the previous page....

"....If we settle for 3% again whilst wage growth is 4 1/2 %-5% and rising and has been above 3% for a long time! Do the sums, its death by errosion and must be stopped.
$2000 last year is the 2% difference add that to a further $4160 due another loss of 2% = $6180 after only 2 years with 2% less. After 3 years its $6491
eg at the end of
2006 $100 000 $100 000
2007 $103 000 $105 000 $2000
2008 $106 090 $110 250 $4160
2009 $109 272 $115 763 $6491........"

[Big Unit]

And dont forget the original backpay, spannertwister!!!!

[SpannerTwister]

"And dont forget the original backpay, spannertwister!!!! "

:ugh: D'Oh !!!!!

Excellent point....Another non-negotiable item.

They owe us 12 months worth of it !!!!

SpannerTwister

[acslame]

Seeing how 5% seems too much for the company,
I think we should go for 27%, same as dixon got.
Don't all good managers lead by example?
Oh what was I thinking ,I said good managers
didn't I!!!!!!!
They seem to have no problems paying management
world class wages for substandard performance's
And yet strangle world class facilities with their
incompetance.
Just proves that they value themselves more
than their staff.
We are just the vehicle they use to
provide themselves with bonuses and career
advancement.
I wish the share holder knew what frauds these
clowns really are

[whatdouknow]

How do we tell the Shareholder, perhaps we could invite a few big players into our workplace to see what we put up with?

Yes I know it is too hard but perhaps we could spread the word.
:eek:

[STRIKEBREAKERBRAKA]

You are on the money,we are in the box seat.We just have to let our actions take effect.It may not have an immediate effect,but let it roll on.Eventually when there is a backlog of hold items/outstanding checks and the inevitible extra delays they will be prepared to negotiate reasonably.We dont have to stand solid on the 5% .Bonus payments annually or even better bonus training points(like you suggested). We can be flexible and let them save some face.But those clauses are NOT NEGOTIBLE they must go.

[rudderless1]

Another 2% relative loss will see you needing to work 14x 12hr day overtimes over the next three years just to stay at status quo.That is more than one third of your twentieth days during that period! If you want or need that money.:uhoh:

[rudderless1]

Struggling to find the money to pay you 3% whilst he sits on $40 000 a week mismanaging this business and a shyte load more bonus each time he has you screwed by other extraordinarily unjustifiably remunerated people!:mad: This is so wrong

[Hobo]

wot's your connection with 4567?

I was just interested in the location, I live there 4 months a year.

[SpannerTwister]

If you are on night-shift Tuesday 8th, finishing on the Wednesday morning, ask your union rep to come in 4 hrs before your finish time to explain the overtime restrictions and any other queries you may have.

IE, If you finish at 0600 Wednesday, your stop-work meeting starts at 0200
Wednesday.

As you will be docked 4 hrs pay, once the meeting has finished, go home!

Make sure you start your sign-ups and DR&R writing at 0130 and let day-shift sort out the mess !!!!

SpannerTwister.

[Spanner Turner]

As you will be docked 4 hrs pay, once the meeting has finished, go home!

Make sure you start your sign-ups and DR&R writing at 0130 and let day-shift sort out the mess !!!!

SpannerTurner.


:confused::confused::confused:

Umm,
Your user name is SpannerTwister, yet you've signed off your last post using my user name. Please refrain!

From a previous post of mine:-

" SpannerTwister "


mmmmmmm.........very close to infringing on my name there my friend!!

[lame]

Good luck guys........... :ok:

[whitenite]

Hobo, tell amos to fark off. If you have a post code in QLD, then that's your good fortune and his/her tough luck. Amos want to chime in with some other gibe here?

Spanner twister/turner, you two really need to sort it out soon, or else invite everyone to the wedding

[wingers]

Sunfish, you make some silly comments from a person who has repeatedly taken differing views, i suggest you stick to text books, you have no idea , sorry you worked for some IT company, that did this or that, either way do not accuse me of something i am not.

The Bottom line is we are entering a campaign half pregnant, its either gloves of or not , either way , we all should be prepared be locked out, it will happen , so when you all finish having a go , take a breath then in several weeks read this post and check out how true my prediction was/is.

[domo]

wingers we are adults here we are not trying to fu#$ the company(gloves off) we are trying to make them see the error of their ways by being a little difficult. a bit like the wife not talking to you or withdrawing certain favors.

[SpannerTwister]

I think (hope) SpannerTurner and I have kissed and made up.

Now all we gotta do is hope that the association and the company can do the same ......................

SpannerTwister.

[Konehead]

MENDAERO said:

"There are three clauses the company want inserted into the EBA which in their current form are show stoppers. These are:

1. Definition of an employee
2. Dispute settlement procedure
3. Flexible working arrangements

The second two have reportedly had some good movement on the companies part.

One sticking point with the members has been the third clause, the company wanted unlimited part time and casual labour, however they do not utilize the current 5% available to them, why should we go any where near unlimited."

I say:
Anyone with a single licence on a classic aircraft (B747-3/400, B767, B737-3/400) - which is alot of guys in Sydney Base, Melbourne and Brisbane Heavy - should be VERY concerned for their future if this clause is included.
When these older aircraft have all been retired, you'll be left with a redundant licence. This is not in the too distant future - the process will commence in the term of this EBA!
The company has put the writing on the wall with the A380 selection process and the A330 crew - minimum numbers of trained LAMEs supervising a bunch of AMEs and unlicenced LAMEs who are only there on the unfulfilled promise of training & equipment. So if management's A330 & A380 maintenance plan even half works, they'll do the same with the B787, assuming we 'win' the contract. Now if the definition of a LAME broadens, the company could call you an AME and pay you accordingly. :uhoh: If you don't like it, leave. Oh yeah, but since your position is not redundant, merely 're-defined', don't expect a payout. :ouch:
We've heard DC state in meetings that the company would NEVER do that. He stated that if you're a LAME and they only require AMEs then you'll be made redundant as a LAME. But then AVV was supposed to only be overflow for Sydney Heavy. Now do you believe him when he says 'dont worry about the LAME definition clause - you wont even know it's there!', do you believe him?
The only slight hiccup I see in this cunning plan - what self-respecting middle-aged LAME is gonna cop a big pay cut to be an AME to some young whipper-snapper A380 LAME? Hmmm... not this paunchy & balding little black duck. Apparently, there IS life outside of Qantas!

[Konehead]

Amos2 said:

"This whole thing comes down to 1%. Is that correct?
Which is 13 bucks after tax on 100k.
All this nonsense for 13 bucks a week?
You gotta be kidding!
If you want to be taken seriously, go for serious money!
13 bucks is a joke!"

It's the principle of the thing. We've heard our EBA negotiators (previous union regime mind you) and the company tell us in previous EBAs that if we cop a wage freeze and act in good faith etc etc when the company's on the ropes with 9/11, SARS, bird flu etc, then when times are good we'll be looked after. But in every succeeding EBA we've given stuff up for minimum pay-rises that aren't acceptable to the general public. Now times are good. The company STILL wants to erode our T & C's. Well there aint that much left to give. We've been slowly bleeding for 7 EBAs. And there is no goodwill left. Our worth is unappreciated, clearly. And that is our own fault, for most LAMEs have a can-do attitude and will find ways to work around unworkable, underfunded, under-trained, under-equipped, ill-conceived policies, procedures and maintenance situations. The situations we find ourselves in daily are not of our making, but of supposedly intelligent people with MBAs who wouldn't know a spanner from a sausage and have a low opinion of anyone without a degree. They don't work nightshift, they don't see the results of their folly and unfortunately most LAMEs are too apathetic to drive home the point. But all that's about to change...

[Konehead]

And by the way gents, Qantas' chief EBA negotiator told the ALAEA negotiating team that "unions always run out of puff". Is the company purposely trying to aggravate the LAMEs? Makes you wonder.
And then there's the $126 million fighting fund in the bank to break us big mean LAMEs. HOLY S**T! Hold on to your hats boys, it's gonna get interesting!

[NMDhold]

Steady....Steady.......


Hold the line.....


Steady......


Look up young fellow, it's not all that bad......

.........

Wait for the whistle......

.........

Steady.....


Wait for the whistle.......


Get your kit ready.....


Log those items in the book.....


Hold the line......

........

Make sure you're ok.....


Keep your head down.....


Wait for it......


See the doctor....

........

Spirits up.......


Not long now......

.........

.........


HERE WE GO LADS......


Pwheeeeeeeeeee........

OVER THE TOP.......

Pwheeeeeeeeeee........

pwheeeeeeeeeee........



See you on the other side:)

NMDhold

[The cougar]

The company has already won a morale victory with the ALAEA not using its full arsenal of industrial action.DC has stated that its low key stuff.Hit em hard I say and be bench marks.

[whatdouknow]

Good things come to those that wait, 12 months means we are due big time!
;)

[rudderless1]

The company is likely to exceed $1 400 000 000 dollar profit! Due to your efforts.That's $27 000 000 per week if put at risk will soon errode their $126 000 000 fund to screw us again! For what, refusing to pay a fair outcome and removing some slimmy conditions.
GREED SUX YOUR PAY FOR THEIR BONUS

[SpannerTwister]

Now is the time to listen to you association reps, they are in contact with Bexley and are receiving instructions from there............

Don't let your MACS / DMM get away with "work-arounds", stick with the association.

Now is the time we all need to support each other.

SpannerTwister.

[HotDog]

Rudderless, would it be possible for you to use bigger font please? I'm having difficulty in reading it.:E

[NAS1801]

When you have nothing useful to say........

[The_King]

SpannerTwister said
“IE, If you finish at 0600 Wednesday, your stop-work meeting starts at 0200
Wednesday.

As you will be docked 4 hrs pay, once the meeting has finished, go home!

Make sure you start your sign-ups and DR&R writing at 0130 and let day-shift sort out the mess !!!! "


I think it would be far better if all ports had their stop work meetings at 0500 – 0900 local time at each port. Hit their “First flight of the day”.

[Ngineer]

Maybe the alaea should come back to the company in 6 months for renegotiating after we kick off on Wednesday. This will have them running scared (not that they are'nt already!!) If the company were confident of victory they would be pretty quiet at the moment, but they are not. The longer we hold out, the more money we cost the company until they have to start notifying shareholders of a profit downgrade. And what do you think their reaction would be? Especially when industrial action is costing $100mil + for the sake of a $5mil EBA! If there is enough fat in this company to pay 1 man $70 miilion and yet we can't afford to keep major maint in Australia, or even keep our own egineers employed full time then something is seriously wrong with the integrity of this organisation. There is a fine line between business and greed and I think its been crossed. The heart and soul of QF engineering was killed when Heavy maint Syd was closed down. And it still sits there empty. This EBA is about principle,not money! We've had enough.

[MENDAERO]

The best time to have a stop work meeting in SYD would be 4 hours before curfew, then they all have to overnight:E

[airtags]

Mendaero,
am wholly in support of the cause but please........ think about the operating crew who would also then get stuck with an unplanned overnight.

Rule 2: always keep building the support so that others are also batting for you!

(certainly gotta break this 3% mentality)

[Ngineer]

Unfortunately due to the lack of accom in Syd (especially weekends) special disp would probably be allowed to dispatch aircraft after 2300hrs if stop work meetings happened at 1900. Probably the best option would be a stop work close to 2100hrs. The possible effect being any aircraft still on the ground would be grounded as SIT staff knock off at 0100, and I doubt ATC would let anything leave at that time of night. However I am sure that there will be some scab labor around to dept things in any case (So long as the aircraft is certified!!!!!!!! and ready to go).

[HARDNUT]

As i understand it the stop work meetings will be spur of the moment things in reaction of company tactics.But if we could plan them first flight of the day would get domestic but international probably would be best around lunch time (at my port anyway).Cant wait to get started!!!:ok::ok:

[MENDAERO]

am wholly in support of the cause but please........ think about the operating crew who would also then get stuck with an unplanned overnight.

Rule 2: always keep building the support so that others are also batting for you!

(certainly gotta break this 3% mentality)

like you said gotta break this 3% mentality, if we succeed all will benefit. No pain, no gain!

The best time to have a stop work meeting in SYD would be 4 hours before curfew, then they all have to overnight

Yes I was only considering the effect it would have on the company, not crew. Anyway I'm in no position to decide when the stop work meetings will happen, I will leave that up to the ALAEA.

But what is better for you crew? a delay (where you might run out of hours) or an overnight which you will know about 4 hours before curfew?

Perhaps some flight and cabin crew might be able to voice some ideas on stop work meetings, defect reporting etc

[STRIKEBREAKERBRAKA]

Unfortunately there will be disruptions to lots of people,part of getting at the company means that other employees will be inconvenienced aswell.But im sure people will see the big picture and be supportive of us.I know we definately would be supportive if it was the other way around.Long haul pilots EBA8 is in negotiation.

[airtags]

That's OK - I'm sure Mrs Airtags (to be) will forgive you and still arrange a blizzardly cold beer or two when next you pax.....as for me I'm in the doghouse anyway with my roster so what's another night!

bat on ...and for your negotiation team remember if you're going to have a dog at the door, make it a big one that can bite as well as bark!

[STRIKEBREAKERBRAKA]

Thankyou for your support.This will be a good test of the LAME's mettle.We MUST ALL STICK TOGETHER!

[Long Bay Mauler]

When is the Long Haul pilots EBA 8 due?

Surely the company won't allow the LAMEs PIA to drag on into the start of the pilots EBA negotiations....................If the feeling being shown by a majority of pilots to alot of engineers about their current stance is anything to go by,then the management will really have some battle on their hands to contain the 3% line.

[chemical alli]

from reading the JQ eba blog maybe the alaea should give the j* pilots union a call, support each other and the swell will grow until a deafening roar.
J* A330,s will be affetced by this as well,

for the boys scratching for the last o/t before game on,just remember when the whistle blows its over the top for all

[DutchRoll]

The best time to have a stop work meeting in SYD would be 4 hours before curfew, then they all have to overnight
Probably won't worry most tech crew. Long haul is SYD based. So are LH cabin crew. I'll just go home! Nor will it concern me if you take industrial action while I'm in MEL. Nice pub there! Two days off would be preferable, but one would suffice. ;)

In seriousness though, tech crew I've spoken to about it are very supportive of the LAME position. EBA8 for the pilots is underway. Geoff unfortunately is going to have to pay the going rate for pilots, which are becoming increasingly hard to find.

[speedbirdhouse]

You'll have the full support of Longhaul cabin crew regardless of any disruptions that may affect us.

The majority of us can't wait to see you guys give dickson and his self serving cronies a bloody nose.

I just hope that you guys hit him HARD.

[The Black Panther]

Qantas, union tight-lipped on dispute meeting

Posted 2 hours 6 minutes ago



Representatives from Qantas and the union representing aircraft engineers have met in Sydney to discuss a dispute over an enterprise agreement.
The engineers are planning to start industrial action on Wednesday unless the disagreement is resolved.
Neither Qantas nor the union are commenting on the meeting's outcomes.



http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/07/2133432.htm?section=justin

[BLF Goon]

Unfortunately for geoff and his boys there is a pilot shortage and engineer shortage.But he will be to arrogant to acknowledge that.We took that wage freeze a couple of years ago(as did the pilots).Massive profits are here now its time to pay the price.Wheter it be share price dropping, or in costly delays.LETS MAKE THEM HURT!!!!! we will get what we want.:)

[DutchRoll]

I didn't think the delays could get any worse than they already are through lack of manpower! Any worse and they'd be a "cancellation"!

Anyway, when Geoff, John, and other management change their bully-boy attitude towards employees and our conditions, I might change my policy of not extending my crew hours. I might also be a little more flexible in my contactability (my current policy is zero contactability - amazing how many times my "brother" or "friend" answers the phone!) on days off to help out with his shortage. But I'm not holding my breath.

[section 41]

I may seem to defy belief as it will be their KPI's and Bonuses on the line but from every conversation and interaction I and others have had with management recently they seem to be looking forward to a fight. I think that people high up don't have any idea of what a LAME does and truly believe we can be replaced as easy as a stroke of a pen.

Remember QE PM 3-10-25 and ensure that you never work on verbal instructions. Remember that it takes a lot of resources to gererate an EA, every time you are not in possesion of approved data you will need to obtain one. Sometimes even approved data is difficult to find and even if you ultimatly don't need an EA you still might need to request help.

If the instructions are not clear you may need to get clarification.

Sometimes it is not always easy to find parts in the IPC and when you do often the part number has been replaced or superceded not all LAMEs are fully conversant with how to get alt part numbers particularly when Qantas use those really tricky 90 numbers and it is hard to work from a BMS spec to these numbers.

You can of course put in demands for the parts (seals etc.) using the Boeing numbers but it may take some time for the purchasing dept to sort out the confusion.

All who see the challenges that LAMEs face and the way they CURRENTLY cope with these adversity should post here as not all LAME's are as knowledgeable about these things and some that are may have memory lapses that may cause them to forget some of the knowledge that makes them professionals.

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[acslame]

Did we lodge the PIA notification today?
Time for talk is over.
All we are doing now is giving the rat time to
get organized.
Its time to get this show on the road!!!

[Bolty McBolt]

The cougar... The company has already won a morale victory with the ALAEA not using its full arsenal of industrial action.DC has stated that its low key stuff. Hit em hard I say and be bench marks.

While I agree, I too would like to take a red hot poker or blow torch (figuratively speaking) to parts of managements anatomy, I am fairly sure that heavy handed industrial action will play into managements hands, as they control the press and would scream first blood quicker than the Indian team can rip in an alleged racial slur :yuk:

As many have said before, remain united, be very cool and stick with the "LOW KEY" overtime bans. Recalling people from higher duties etc only puts more people back on the floor, which undermines the overtime ban so I can see why this IA tactic has not been used.

We all know how management treat us when they want something, Its never open discussion quick and easy. Its death of a 1000 cuts till we relent.
It will take time but we need to maintain the rage till MH can expect nothing from us whilst we bury him and his team in their own red tape.
We all know supply chain do not have the parts we need to maintain the fleet lets prove it. Either way DC looks bad.
This will take time!!
So far on the score board a few International flights have been cancelled many have gone late , Some domestic aircraft grounded for a day or 2 and we have not started our IA.
It can only get worse for MH and DC and if we do this properly we could see then end of them both.
Remain united

FOG, FOM, FOD
:ok:

[Antisplash]

Can Q use scabs who haven'y been LAME induction coursed? or Local area inducted? we do those things and if we don't they can't be in the area legally. It would be in violation of their own rules. The very rules that have stopped use gaining quals and raising ourselves.:E

[Ngineer]

Chemical Alli,

"for the boys scratching for the last o/t before game on,just remember when the whistle blows its over the top for all"....

i just hope that all the boy's who don't, or never have, worked overtime don't just sit on their hands and do nothing over the coming weeks otherwise their contribution to this process will be very little (especially the noisy ones who have been criticising any O/Ter's over the last week). Otherwise will be leaving the industrial process to the regular overtimers who have been keeping the company in the game till now. Work to rule and keep a very keen eye open to any little defect. We will obviously need to during these times of increased workload and pressure!

[indamiddle]

looks like qf 31 left 3 hours late tonight
u guys getting an early start?

[teresa green]

As one well out of the stoush, but one who proudly served in Engineering for some eight years in Docs all I can say is "GO BOYS" you are and always have been tops. And the stupidity of the beancounters don't see it. But the rest of us do!! Goodluck!:D:D:D

[speedbirdhouse]

I've never seen so many instances of loooooooooooong engineering delays over the last few weeks.

Cabin crew re-named Qantas, "Appologies Airline" years ago given our continual inability to get even the basic stuff right.

I was genuinely surprised the other day when I DIDN"T have to appologise for our late arrival as we landed on time:eek:

Can't wait to see what happens when the fun REALLY starts:E

[beachhead]

I believe Saturday's QF31 left 18 hours late on Sunday. First an engine change then a hydraulic leak at the gate. Oh well.

I must say I cant remember QF management coming to the table with industrial action looming, usually their line is no IA and we will talk.

[ellie1]

quote

"I think that people high up don't have any idea of what a LAME does and truly believe we can be replaced as easy as a stroke of a pen."

Sorry to gents, but I think they can, 42ZC is the regulation I think they can use.

[NMDhold]

Further Reading............

Transit Authorisations

http://www.casa.gov.au/airworth/awb/02/004.htm


CAR 42ZC(3)(d) permits a person to perform maintenance on Class A aircraft if they are authorised by CASA or an authorised person.


These authorisations include what is often described as a "Transit Authorisation" or some similar term.


Transit Authorisations permit an LAME to carry out specific maintenance on specific aircraft for which they do not hold a type/category rating.

Generally, the authorisation ("Transit Authorisation") should permit a Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (LAME) working for an AMO to carry out defined tasks, for which the LAME has received appropriate training, with a view to permit a serviceable aircraft to be transited through any port within the Operator's domestic network.


Scope Of Permitted Maintenance Under CAR 42ZC(7)

Authorisation of maintenance personnel should be specified for the aircraft type/model (as operated by a specific Air Operator) for which the training has been completed, and be limited to;
Daily/Turnaround/Transit or equivalent manufacturers' inspections, with no rectification of defects, and
Cabin configuration change, where no tools are required, such as fitting of section dividers, stretchers, portable oxygen bottles and the like.
The maintenance personnel should not be authorised to carry out the following:
Scheduled maintenance
Checks to the aircraft's systems (other than checks such as brake wear, fluid pressure checks, etc. and checks that are associated with the servicing and replenishment functions being carried out)
Rectification of defects (this includes replacing wheels and brakes, changing computer software, and clearance of defects resulting from electronic diagnostic checks).
Maintenance required to comply with an Airworthiness Directive, or
Any modification or repair to the aircraft.
One observation to note is that it is only for domestic operations,

Another is that it is for transiting serviceable aircraft with NO NEW DEFECTS only.......we should all know what this means by now......don't we;)

When the action starts, and there is a possibility of an stopwork........

Log your defects as soon as you find them and don't do the certification until the last minute;)


Some thoughts "going forward" :}

We need to hold the line,

attack where it has most effect,

deal with scabs as best we can and

MOVE AS ONE



To A Qantas Engineering without Harris and Cox.....

To Victory and 5 percent!!!!!:D

NMDhold

[MENDAERO]

Qantas, union tight-lipped on dispute meeting

Posted 2 hours 6 minutes ago



Representatives from Qantas and the union representing aircraft engineers have met in Sydney to discuss a dispute over an enterprise agreement.
The engineers are planning to start industrial action on Wednesday unless the disagreement is resolved.
Neither Qantas nor the union are commenting on the meeting's outcomes.



http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...section=justin


Yesterdays meeting was about the SYD Base Maintenance A330 crews, I believe they have come to an agreement on the proper LAME staffing levels, so the crews should not have to be disbanded on the 10th as the ALAEA directed.

The follow up EBA meeting should be held today, with a view to an agreement before tomorrows PIA start. An agreement looks promising, however now is not the time to let our guard down.

[magoo31]

Just had my strikebreaker offer.

Sheesh, talk about throwing some cash around.

Don't worry, I told them my morals would prevent me from accepting.

[Antisplash]

:ESome of my old mates from Heavy and redundantees also received love letters asking to return to fold and help during this time of crisis with a bucket of ruples on offer. Every one of them politely declined!!..Still united though apart!!:ok::ok::D:D

Please LAMEs when you meet to discuss stuff remember you still have support from us no longer with of the airline. Just don't walk out the gate, the ba$tard$ will lock it after you. Screw them from within.:O:E

[Dick.Hayes]

QAN Share price.
Beginning of November $6.05
Beginning of December $5.85
Beginning of January $5.28

I don’t understand, isn’t industrial action good for a share price.
OH Well, how low can we go??

[regitaekilthgiwt]

It looks like an impact is already been seen at Sydney International. Obviously some flights will normally leave slightly late due late passengers etc (within 15 minutes is considered on time), however the overall trend is there.

This is Monday the 7th of January's Qantas flights from Syd Intl:

QF163....5 mins late
QF91......31 mins late
QF167....6 mins late
QF45......6 mins late
QF136....26 mins late
QF135....1hr 25 mins late
QF63......37 mins late
QF43......22 mins late
QF191....1hr 16 mins late
QF127....39 mins late
QF107....10 mins late
QF19......1hr 12 mins late
QF11......16 mins late
QF73......49 mins late
QF41......21 mins late
QF5.......11 mins late
QF31......4hrs 48 mins late
QF1.......1hr 23 mins late
QF117....28 mins late
QF49......46 mins late
Qf21.......8 mins late

[WynSock]

From the website...

Sometimes due to circumstances outside our control, such as bad weather or industrial action, your flight may be disrupted or cancelled.

Outside our control

[Ngineer]

Thanks Magoo31 and all the guys who knocked back the offer. I spoke to an ex employee who was phoned 8 times and eventually knocked back 150k. He was told they had 8 people so far, and cannot find any more. Although you guy's have done the right thing by us, I can still image that knocking back this sort of offer would leave one feeling a bit unsettled. We have utmost adiration for you all, and you guys are usually the main topic of conversation at the smoko room table. Several of the LAME's on leave at the moment who have not had their leave cancelled by management are cancelling their leave to come back and help bring this airline to a grinding halt. Will be fun to be involved and looking forward to the long fight.

[The Black Panther]

Perhaps it would benefit all if you find show stoppers in the QEPM and put the references here as one contributor has already done (3-10-25). I will be trolling for the same and keeping an uncontrolled copy with me at all times.

[Short_Circuit]

QF Policy 3-40-021
6. Human Performance Limitations Policy

Limitations of human performance, in the context of planning safety related tasks, refers to the upper and lower limits, and variations, of certain aspects of human performance (Circadian rhythm/24 hours body cycle) which personnel should be aware of when planning work and shifts.
It is recommended that safety-critical tasks be scheduled during periods when those carrying out the tasks are likely to be most alert i.e. at the beginning of work periods.
Where for reasons of scheduling or unplanned defect rectification they are unable to apply the forgoing procedure, additional error defences will be employed when conducting any safety related task.
Consideration (Error Defences) would typically include:
A review of the time of day/night with regard to the Circadian rhythm/24 hours body cycle and its' likely effect on the personnel undertaking the task.
Adequacy of support staff (quality, stores, equipment and other team members etc.).
Ensuring the staff members concerned have received adequate off-work rest.
Additional breaks are scheduled, or more frequent breaks.
Additional error capturing steps are planned such as Duplicate Inspections, where one would not have ordinarily been completed.
The availability of additional staff to complete complex tasks.
AND

CERTIFICATION RESPONSIBILITIES 3-10-023


All certifying persons are responsible for the following general requirements: Ensuring that any departure from the appropriate maintenance instructions and Procedures is covered by authorising documentation
(e.g. Concession, Engineering Authority etc.) prior to the maintenance operation continuing.

ie Wait for the document to arrive, no working from verbals whilst waiting for the document.

[Big M]

Short Circuit
Music to my ears dear fellow!
Can't wait until all ports are singing off the same song sheet.

No one will be going on strike.
No one will be locked out.
Every LAME will be on the job and doing it well.
The ineptitude and incompetence of management along with their stupid rules and procedures will be the tools via which we grind the network to a halt and get our point across.
The higher branches in the company are about to learn just who keeps the planes a-comin' and a-goin'.
Some low swinging branches such as Atwell-Harris, Styles, Fat Controller may just get snapped off!

[once a jolly swagman]

People I have been reading these posts for a long time with no input (sorry).

Since reading the Human Performance Limitations Policy from the QF Policy Manual it is good to see that QF has written a policy that in the end will cause them the most pain with our charged pens in hand.

If you are pressured to bypass or overlook the policies them I am sure each State and Territory OH&S Department for each Government would more than happy to receive a phone call from you.

More than ever before it seems that everyone in QF are with us. It seems that the time has come for the people that keep the airline ticking over to be heard and rewarded the correct way instead of shrugged off by Management.

This is our time to be heard and I believe we have the best team with SP spearheading our cause.

Please lets all unite and use our brains to achieve what we are after. We can do more damage at work than not being there.

[sickofqf]

It's a simple motto.....

"The Policy Manual is YOUR friend"

I feel MH, BK, DC et al will grow to rue the day they let HR twerps over regulate the workplace.............

More power to the REAL workers and less to the "managers" and the people really running this debacle of a company.....the HR morts... !!

[amos2]

Too much hubris, guys! :=

Don't get ahead of yourselves.

[sickofqf]

"too much hubris"


blah, blah, why don't you crawl back under your Jet rock Amos.....no one is listening to your nonsense !

[bandit2]

Thank You Ex heavy boys. We all hoped you`d tell QF to kiss your hairy &^$@#%.:ok:

[acslame]

A little message to QF managers.

You think you are seeing delays now?
You have seen nothing yet!
When we get serious about delays and stop
making YOUR stupid systems work
it is going to hit your network like a sledgehammer.

[cjam]

Howdy,

I'm paxing QF Mel to Brisy tomorrow morning....what are my chances of getting away on time or at all?

Not worried if I get delayed/cancelled (would be a good excuse not to go) just interested. Have been following this thread and although I'm not involved you have my support because your management sounds just like the management at my company.

Cheers.

[chemical alli]

pia doesnt start until 00:01 hrs on the 11th cjam think youll make it .just

[cjam]

..........bugga!

[Redstone]

Remember to be cool you cats, trust one another and back each other up.
A big Respect for the ones who have told Q to stick their contract.
The journey has only just begun, steel yourselves for the road ahead, it could be long and dusty, and there is a nice saucer of milk waiting at the end.

[Pass-A-Frozo]

I'm traveling around the time of your PIA.

If I get delayed

The journey has only just begun, steel yourselves for the road ahead, it could be long and dusty, and there is a nice saucer of milk waiting at the end.

I hope there is a steaming turd in your saucer of milk and you are made to drink it.

Hopefully QF will bring in offshore Labour to ensure no delays. Don't like your conditions? Go drive a cab or start your own company.

[employes perspective]

PASS A FROZO i take it you have done both and perhaps a couple of other things as well,you wouldn't be a KIWI brother would you:}

[600ft-lb]

PAF:
You personally wish to undermine the conditions of the engineers that work for Qantas because they are taking industrial action, which at this stage is just overtime bans.

Ask yourself this - why does an airline RELY on overtime to function at a suitable level. A properly staffed and run airline would not require overtime to function. Qantas does.

You typify what is wrong with this country, the me myself and I attitude.

[acslame]

pass a frozo,
Post your flight details and I will do everything I can to
make sure your trip goes without a hitch

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Did you sign up to the current employment agreement?

I've give you a hint. Go into your bathroom, look into the mirror and you shall find who is responsible for the current conditions you work under. Don't want to accept personal blame (seems pretty common amongst you lot), well blame your "treasured" union. Communists unite eh?

A proper airline? Well go find one to work for then if QF is so incredibly awful.

Unionist are like school yard bullies. Everyone will suffer until I get my way. Well guess what - the people who you make suffer hate you, and don't support you.

[employes perspective]

again PAF what have you done cabs or have you built a great empire from the sheep shed up

[Short_Circuit]

PAF
Yeah, me too... ha ha ha haaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!
(I mean I'll fix you up)

[chemical alli]

paf ,what bitter and twisted vitrol you sprout.allow me to retort.better still ill just email the mod and have you removed for indecent comments.

[acslame]

No dickh@#d I didn't
I had It whittled away buy self serving assw*pes
who have no idea what they are doing.
For years I have sat here and watched things go steadily down hill.
Qf are taking the piss put of there staff AND the
public in the name of there own back pockets!

So as long as you are OK thats all that matters eh!
I say again, post your flight details and we will look
after you .

[Short_Circuit]

PAF
We want to fix the problem, not run away as you would.
PS do you still have that unused, dropped once rifle?
:mad:

[Pass-A-Frozo]

You typify what is wrong with this country, the me myself and I attitude.

No you and you ilk all foaming over "sticking it to the man" are what is wrong with this country. You destroy this country. You take you complaints out on the general population, simply because you don't have the guts to either put up with what you've got or move on. You hide behind PIA because the idea of going home early whilst trying to extract more money appeals to you. You don't care about people trying to travel to family funerals. You don't care about businesses that were relying on a shipment being on time to make a profit (and therefore being able to pay their employees).

You take PIA and you are disgraceful and worthy of scorn. How about you guys start a website so the PAX you effect can post whether they support or disagree with you. That way you get direct feedback.

[chemical alli]

guys be cool ,paf has been fwd to mod for deletion and keep the thread clean or it may be removed ,
dont get caught by a troll, stay cool .the battle lines are drawn and we await the whistle for over the top.

keep expletives to a minimum,and let the cats drink from the saucers of sour milk

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Yes Ali. We all know a dissenting opinion is not allowed.

This isn't a union bulletin board. It's the Professional Pilot Rumour Network.

[employes perspective]

again PAF what have you done cabs or have you built a great empire from the sheep shed up.COWARD:suspect:

[Pass-A-Frozo]

How do people usually interpret that in English? Do you mean have I worked other than a pilot? Yes I have.

If you guys think I'm being harsh you had better toughen up. The first day QF tells PAX they have been delayed because of you - you'll hear a lot worse than that. Especially if they have just gotten off from NY in Syd and are expecting a connecting flight that has been cancelled.

[Redstone]

Puss-A-Frodo, reality is a matter of the clarity of mind. Is the glass half empty, or half full?

[Deck Zone]

Antisplash. In answer to your question stated below.

Can Q use scabs who haven'y been LAME induction coursed? or Local area inducted? we do those things and if we don't they can't be in the area legally. It would be in violation of their own rules. The very rules that have stopped use gaining quals and raising ourselves.:E

No they can't. They have to comply with all policies and procedures.:)

[chemical alli]

enjoy your flight paf,may it be your last ,so our poor cc dont have to put up with a head on a stick

[Pass-A-Frozo]

reality is a matter of the clarity of mind. Is the glass half empty, or half full?

Easy question. It depends on the last change of state. If the last change was adding to the glass it's half full; if the last change was to drink or take from the glass it's half empty. Geez is that the best you have? :rolleyes:

[Bolty McBolt]

To never be afflicted by P.A.F's comments again.
Click on "User CP" Top of the page L/H side.
On the page left had side is a list of links.
Bottom of the list is..
"Buddy / Ignore Lists"

Cut and paste P.A.F. name into the ignore list and you will never see his ignorant stirring rantings again.

:ok:


Gooooone !!!!

For my last retort to PAF.
If you guys think I'm being harsh you had better toughen up. The first day QF tells PAX they have been delayed because of you - you'll hear a lot worse than that. Especially if they have just gotten off from NY in Syd and are expecting a connecting flight that has been cancelled.

I have been abused many times before by pax, even from people whom just got off a plane from N.Y. when I was doing my job to the best of my ability without any bans in place.
At least now the pax will be justified in their rudeness.
Which will make a nice change :yuk:

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Actually that serves me well. That way you don't see and won't respond to what I say. Everyone else will see my posts without your crazy union talk in response. I love it! :ok:

Even better, when people do the entire conversation will seem disjointed. You'll say things that I can debate and you won't respond.

[600ft-lb]

PAF = kiwi ?

Well that goes some way to explaining his attitude. Over the last 20 years in the aviation industry in NZ the staff have only known how to bend one way. Now he wants Australians to do the same because they take exception to their wage going backwards again ?

hah

[Pass-A-Frozo]

No Kiwi mate. Australian.

Nice business attitude from Bolty though.

"Pax are always rude" so they deserve industrial action... You wonder why QF won't offer you a pay rise with that attitude. In one single post Bolty has proved why you guys don't deserve a pay rise - if indeed that is the attitude of all you guys. You guys talk about a perceived lack of respect from management yet you have people like Bolty saying that the guys who pay the bills (the pax) "deserve to be delayed".

I don't know many people that would support a pay rise for people like Bolty.

[acslame]

Yes the pax will suffer, yes qf will suffer and yes we will suffer!
However we have tried to negotiate for over a year TO
NO AVAIL.
We have been the target of qf management for years.
Now FOR THE FIRST TIME we are standing up for ourselves,
NOT hiding behind a PIA situation as you would suggest.
IF you have any ideas on how to resolve this then I am all
ears.
no one wants to upset the flying public, however We are not the
ones attacking QF, In case you hadn't noticed they
are attacking us via the xpt and definition of a lame clause.

So per your posts you oviously think that we are not
allowed to stand up for our rights
Wonder how things would be if it was you in the companys sights?
I think you would be taking a WHOLE DIFFERENT LINE THEN

What was your flight number again?


Oh and by the way you have made my evening.
I needed a good laugh

[Bolty McBolt]

Whats that PAF.
I cant hear you :ok:

[Pass-A-Frozo]

So per your posts you oviously think that we are not
allowed to stand up for our rights

You can stand up for you rights. Just don't do it at the Australian populations expense. The *second* you take industrial action you are costing businesses money (other than QANTAS), you are delaying people going to funerals, you are delaying people from disadvantaged backgrounds who have saved 10 years for a holiday. You ruin it. You ruin it. That's what it comes down to. That's what they'll think come the day.

People like Bolty are the main problem here. Ears shut, don't care who they hurt. That's what industrial action does.

Do you think it hurts GD? No.. He's still going to earn millions. Do you think the shareholders will "vote him out" because of your action. No.. They will think you guys are the problem. Do you think the public will support you? No. You delayed them. You are on your own - and will never have any support. How do you think a Labor government got away with breaking airlines?

In fact given the campaign against the current government regarding unions, Mr Rudd would like nothing more than to step on an industry the general public thinks makes a good return.

[Short_Circuit]

PAF apparently comes from military background. Just imagine our forces giving up as PAF suggests we should.
He should be held to account for his comments and discharged at once, if he has not already......
What a looser you are.. :mad::mad::mad:

[acslame]

That is great PAF
however I am still waiting to hear your suggestion on how to solve this, I for one am out of ideas .
You can't reason with QF. all they understand is delays. that is it.
And yes Dixon will get his millions.
And yes the public will blame us, we unlike QF don't have a pr
department.
As to the labor gov, if they tell us not to take action then we won't.
Remember we got to this stage via the commission, not in spite of!
So I am all ears

[numbskull]

PAF if you don't want to be delayed fly Virgin, Jetstar or some other airline. there is always choice.

The LAMES are choosing to stand up for their rights as they are legally entitled to.

No one here is particularly concerned that a public servant is going to be delayed whilst going on one of his jolllies.

Send your sob story about union bullies to Liberal Party and stop trying to wind up people who are genuinly concerned about their future careers and working conditions.

[Pass-A-Frozo]

What a stupid attempt at an analogy.

What you are saying is the military should refuse to operate in area's of operations because they are unhappy with their pay or conditions.

That's not what you meant though is it?

and there is Numbskull living up to his name! You heard it folks. Traveling public don't fly QF. That will help your case for more pay! Less business. :D

Are you back calling uniformed ADF personnel public servants again Numbskull?

Easy ACS. Take the deal or work for someone else. No-one paying better? Well tough. Life wasn't supposed to be a gift of jobs with endless pay rises.

oh and as for:

And yes the public will blame us, we unlike QF don't have a pr
department.

Yes you do. You're union. It's just that you are asking the traveling public to swallow a t**d. You can't polish a t**d my friend!

[employes perspective]

go PAF,you start sh!t stirring the day before the IA,go fishing elsewhere,as for the coming delays,IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT FLY WITH ANOTHER CARRIER THE CHOICE IS YOURS,THERE ARE OTHER OPERATORS OUT THERE,QANTAS IS NOT THE BE ALL,(FLY WITH A CARRIER THAT IS NOT IN DISPUTE WITH IT'S WORKFORCE=TREATS THEIR PEOPLE WELL,AND YOU WILL GET TO WHERE YOUR GOING ON TIME):eek:

[600ft-lb]

Answer this conundrum then PAF.
We work in an industry where our presence is required to get aircraft out on time. Any action from us has the potential to make someones trip not go exactly to plan.

When we are being offered a future working contract which is by community standards, below par, how would YOU go about trying to rectify the situation.

Before you go and say 'go elsewhere' what if we don't want to go elsewhere and drive a cab. What if we want to make our workplace fair and equitable as it was about 10 years ago before the current managements agenda has been pursued relentlessly. Not to mention the fact that our skills and qualifications aren't exactly easily transferable to other industries out there.

Your logic so far seems to be just shut up and accept the sh1t sandwich because you'll make people, notably you, late otherwise.

I'm interested in your strategies for success. I'm not expecting anything worth reading but.

[acslame]

So you have no ideas PAF!
Just the suggestion that we work for someone else.
And I am taking it easy
Just so you know working for someone else is a real option.
I am glad to hear of your empathy for the flying public.
I will remember it next time a crew is out of hours.
I would like to ask you one question.
When was the last time that LAME's took industrial action?
You talk like it was an everyday event.
If memory serves it was mid 80's and it was in support
of another QF union.
Possibly yours

[Pass-A-Frozo]

When we are being offered a future working contract which is by community standards, below par, how would YOU go about trying to rectify the situation.

Before you go and say 'go elsewhere' what if we don't want to go elsewhere and drive a cab

You answered your own question. If you don't wish to go elsewhere then suck it up. If you don't wish to go elsewhere the company that is providing the hundreds of millions of dollars required to produce the income to pay your wage has the upper hand.

What if we want to make our workplace fair and equitable as it was about 10 years ago Then take your money, and money of investors and start a company.

You may not like capitalism but it's the best economic system mankind has ever come up with, you and I have to live with it. I'd like more money for what I do too. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't be paid more. I'm saying take the hand you are dealt. Why? Because your alternative is to hurt hundreds of thousands of other people in ways you will never know. Airlines are about to start coming through the door in Australia. If your wages are not at the correct level you'll lose your job. Think the ALP will save you? Hah!

When was the last time that LAME's took industrial action?
If the year was 1901 it would be too recent.

If memory serves it was mid 80's and it was in support
of another QF union.
Possibly yours

I have never been a member of a union (whilst it's illegal for me to be a member of a union now I was not a member when I was able to be) and NEVER will until the day I die. I believe in deontological decision making. Something foreign to you and all union members regardless of trade. (including pilots)

The fact is that I'm not saying you are not worth more money. I am not saying you are worth less money. I am saying you are worth the best deal you can make with a company WITHOUT harming hundreds of thousands if not millions of people.

[STRIKEBREAKERBRAKA]

Flying with a different carrier is just common sence(something you and i would do).But P.A.F is a moron and people like him is why there is a saying now that "common sence isnt that common".Incovenience to our customers will be unfortunate but unlike you P.A.F we have the balls to stick up for ourselves.

[amos2]

Why, why, why, do you guys keep posting here?

You are making yourselves look like fools to all and sundry because of the thuggish nature of some of your more immature posters!

Keep all this stuff in house, in private, on your own website. Not on an open pilots forum!

Strewth!...I thought you guys were supposed to be sophisticated! :sad:

[600ft-lb]

You answered your own question. If you don't wish to go elsewhere then suck it up. If you don't wish to go elsewhere the company that is providing the millions of dollars required to produce the income to pay your wage has the upper hand.

You may not like capitalism but it's the best economic system mankind has ever come up with, you and I have to live with it. I'd like more money for what I do too. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't be paid more. I'm saying take the hand you are dealt. Why? Because your alternative is to hurt hundreds of thousands of other people in ways you will never know.


The capitalist system we live by in this country has systems built in place by law that allows collective bargaining of employees with their employer. Capitalist societies rely on prices going up, ie inflation, to drive growth.

The by product of inflation means that the cost of living goes up. Therefore generally, employees should be entitled to get a pay rise every year (that the EBA system has provisions for increased productivity and flexibility in return for said pay rises) that at least goes up in line with inflation. That is how most people think.

[600ft-lb]

Why, why, why, do you guys keep posting here?

You are making yourselves look like fools to all and sundry because of the thuggish nature of some of your more immature posters!

Keep all this stuff in house, in private, on your own website. Not on an open pilots forum!

Strewth!...I thought you guys were supposed to be sophisticated!

Are you unhappy that being a flyboy you get paid less then a LAME. We can't be as unsophisticated as someone who signed up to that jetstar agreement. Pass a Frozo must have negotiated that one for you..

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Capitalist societies rely on prices going up, ie inflation, to drive growth.

No they don't.

Care to explain that one?

Therefore generally, employees should be entitled to get a pay rise every year

Excellent logic. How much should the candle makers of 1600AD be earning now? :rolleyes: Horse and Cart drivers??? It's just an endless cycle up right? Nothing else effects the price of labour right? :zzz:

[Short_Circuit]

OMG,
I think QF have paid PAF & AMOS2 to kill the
thread and antagonise us. Ignore them and
place their comments where they belong.

[The_King]

PAF said
“Life wasn't supposed to be a gift of jobs with endless pay rises.”

We are not after a pay rise. We are just trying to keep up with inflation. Over the years with GD we have gone backwards.

As for “go elsewhere”. Most of us are just dieing for a VR package.
No Package…oh well, I’ll just stay with my ring-side seats at the show. Just stay calm PAF, act 1 is about to start.

[LAMEA380]

Well said PAF, these militants here are in for a rude shock, called LOCK OUT....will be intersting to see

why dont you all go away and resign ...

if QF is so bad, there is a shortage of LAMES so all you valuable employees will have no trouble securing alternative high paying jobs.

I look foward to your intelligent and articulate responses.

Heaps of jobs out there guys, so why not leave, so that we that want to work for this great Australian Icon can do so in peace.

[Short_Circuit]

This message is hidden because Pass-A-Frozo is on your ignore list

Bye bye

NEXT !

[numbskull]

PAF is just a rabid right wing s?@t stirrer trying to get this thread closed.

The ADF is rife with poor decision makers bungling all sorts of projects. Its not surprising given that PAF is one of their officers. (I could list them but this thread is already 37 pages long and there is enough dribble here already!!)

Just ignore him and he'll go away eventually.

[Short_Circuit]

This message is hidden because LAMEA380 is on your ignore list.

NEXT !

[amos2]

Oh dear!...this is becoming very sad indeed!...

go elsewhere guys, you are destroying yourselves in real time as we speak!

Go private for goodness sake! Can't you take good advice? :confused::confused:

[Short_Circuit]

This message is hidden because amos2 is on your ignore list,

NEXT !

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Ahh the sign of someone who is a man of conviction. Fingers in ears and yelling "naa naa naa". That's the reason why you'll lose and deserve to lose.

If you want to play by the sword and start heading towards full strike action I hope you receive a sword.

Don't care for a dissenting opinion? Try a union website - this isn't one of them.

[Spaz Modic]

;) Heh Heh! As predicted, they pulled the plug. :8

:eek: Dicko's got 'em by the Brazilians. :D

[Short_Circuit]

Bolty said
To never be afflicted by P.A.F's comments again.
Click on "User CP" Top of the page L/H side.
On the page left had side is a list of links.
Bottom of the list is..
"Buddy / Ignore Lists"

Cut and paste P.A.F. name into the ignore list and you will never see his ignorant stirring rantings again.



works a treat!

[LAMEA380]

NEXT...is what you will be hearing.......the Que at the UNEMPLOYMENT OFFICE.....great stuff this, cannot wait for your passive go slow action to really bite , then YOU WILL ALL BE HEARING NEXT

[Short_Circuit]

This message is hidden because Spaz Modic is on your ignore list,

NEXT !

[HotDog]

Out of some 1,700 LAMEs, some two dozen of them are apparently determined to alienate the symphaty of the general public to what I believe, is a just cause. The ALAEA leadership must cringe when they read all this very badly written, jingoistic rhetoric. Workers unite, kill the capitalistic managers that dare make a profit with our sweat and blood. Power comes from the barrel of a gun, anybody disagreeing with us will have his head on a stick. Come on fellows, give it a rest. I do hope you get your 5% but the attitude you demonstrate on this forum will not help you.

[amos2]

I don't like to get personal, but I think short circuit has had a short circuit!

Go private fellas...

how many times do you have to be told!!!!!!




Hope you win, by the way.

[employes perspective]

Qantas jet in landing scare



Email (http://www.smh.com.au/cgi-bin/common/popupEmailArticle.pl?path=/articles/2008/01/08/1199554654270.html)
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Alex Tibbitts
January 9, 2008


Advertisement

Were you on board the jet or know somebody who was? Message 0424 SMS SMH (+61 424 767 764) or email us at [email protected] ([email protected]). A Qantas 747 lost power on its descent into Bangkok this afternoon.
A Qantas spokeswoman was unable to say what systems were affected on QF2 from London to Bangkok or for how long the aircraft lost power.
"This incident involved loss of electrical power on a Boeing 747 on descent into Bangkok," said Qantas chief pilot, Captain Chris Manning in a statement. "The back-up sytem was activated and the aircraft landed safely.
"Qantas reported the incident to Boeing, the Australian Transport Safety Bureau and the Civil Aviation Safety Authority and is also investigating its own thorough investigation. The aircraft is currently being repaired and assessed."
A spokeswoman added: "Because it is under investigation, we are are unable to provide any further information at this stage."




must of had it's last overhaul in singapore,watch out for those eels,you never know when you might need them:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[mozza1972]

I am saying you are worth the best deal you can make with a company WITHOUT harming hundreds of thousands if not millions of people.

Jeez bit dramatic there champ, millions of them.......

Good luck Lads give em heaps from a fellow LAME (Non qf)

I give the public a bit more credit than PAF and Qf Management, the old Aussie fair go principle , when the figures are put out there , Eg man bonuses and the amount the company seem willing to spend to fight a battle which if played the right way will highlight the red tape ,ar5e covering crap that LAMEs on the front line have to make work for the likes of PAF and management, will show where the deficencies lay...

Bury them in thier own policies and HR rubbish .....:ugh:


Enjoy Lads......:D

[chemical alli]

take it easy guys and play cool,there was a meeting today and another tomorrow ,so maybe this will all be sorted before a shot is fired in anger.
until the 11th hour we are still negotiating in good faith.maybe people like amos2 and paf will get to their destination on time and all will have been a good slanging match.

safety before schedule is the motto

[Redstone]

Quote:
reality is a matter of the clarity of mind. Is the glass half empty, or half full?

Easy question. It depends on the last change of state. If the last change was adding to the glass it's half full; if the last change was to drink or take from the glass it's half empty. Geez is that the best you have?

Well PAF, I guess that's the difference between you and I. If the last change was to drink or take from the glass, it's still half full:ok:

[Short_Circuit]

Gee PAF, hope you were not on that one (QF2)
Catch you next time......

PS don't bother replying, you are on my ignore list..... :):):):):):):):):):):):):)

[amos2]

This bloke gives his location in morse code!...

is he for real? :=

[FlexibleResponse]

I strongly encourage all LAMEs to go work in the mines for a couple of years. The mining companies are really desperate for anything that remotely smells like an engineer and will pay you handsomely.

Keep your existing Licences current (or at least on hold) and see if it is worth coming back to aviation in two or three years time.

[HotDog]

Saw an electrician's panel van on the road today with a rather cute logo on the back. XXXXXX Electrical Contractors, "We remove your shorts.":E

[the dog74]

what you think they are not used to delays in the US?.............interesting.

[the dog74]

P.A.F. ie

Piss Away the Future.
Sorry fella I understand you have the right to your oppinion and thats fine however it's a scary time for all who face the current climate and maybe a little consideration should be forwarded our way. I personally do not agree with making the pax late or delayed but i also am part of a team/union and will abide by the rules. Most guy's i know love the company we work for but are fed up with being treated like dirt.Even in this dispute most people still have a can do attitude it's just something QF LAME's have.So what i ask is give these fella's a go, the kangaroo on the tail still means something for a lot of engineers even if they don't admit it.
Cheers and Thanks

[Konehead]

Come on guys! Ignore the stooges and sh*tstirrers. Give 'em no oxygen! In boxing they say 'He who loses his temper, loses!' Keep to the point. That's 5% plus remove those clauses, which is fair and reasonable. Where management lead, it's people should follow. So we're following in their footsteps to reap the reward they've scored themselves for ALL our efforts! I mean we all work for the same airline don't we, so why shouldn't we more equitably share the rewards in the good times considering the restraint we've shown when the company was 'on the ropes' with SARS, 9/11 etc (only to announce record profits later)?
Also keep in mind PIA is a Pandora's Box. QF and the union don't want to open it coz who knows what will be unleashed. It will only harm us all in the long run. And remember that when you're giving someone a hiding, you're usually getting half a hiding in return. No-one wants that.
Something else to consider: often the THREAT of action is far more effective than the action one may really be capable of. You act and you run the risk of revealing your weaknesses. And if it comes to it, let's not telegraph our punches. Let's just wait for direction from the union we voted in so overwhelmingly. Let's trust them to deliver a few well-timed sucker punches which we also so overwhelmingly voted for them to do.
And hang tough. Let's not 'run out of puff' as the QF EBA chief negotiator predicted.

[Konehead]

The dog 74 said:
'I personally do not agree with making the pax late or delayed but i also am part of a team/union and will abide by the rules. Most guy's i know love the company we work for but are fed up with being treated like dirt.Even in this dispute most people still have a can do attitude it's just something QF LAME's have.So what i ask is give these fella's a go, the kangaroo on the tail still means something for a lot of engineers even if they don't admit it.'

Hear hear. I don't want to hurt pax either. I used to be proud to work for QF up till a couple of years ago, which just so happens to co-incide with the appearance of the latest management wallahs. Now I'm embarrassed to admit it. I'd like to restore that pride. And I think the way we're going about things may just help.

[wingers]

Re below, i take it it is a good sign, good luck to all, how do we get an update on what this means.

The postponement must mean we are close, can we get an update on the negotiations, i dont want it to come Friday and we are none the wiser why things have or havent changed.

It looks promising, please advise
Qantas engineers postpone industrial action

http://saturn.tiser.com.au/images/AE3.gif (http://mercury.tiser.com.au/ADCLICK/CID=fffffffcfffffffcfffffffc/acc_random=35698293/SITE=TAUS/AREA=NEWS.BREAKINGNEWS/AAMSZ=110X40/pageid=47662110)January 09, 2008 The Australian


INDUSTRIAL action planned by Qantas engineers for tomorrow has been postponed.
The Australian Licensed Aircraft Association (ALAEA) has put off a plan to refuse to work overtime following failed negotiations with management over pay rises.

The union is demanding a 5 per cent pay rise for up to 1700 engineers nationwide, but the airline is offering only a 3 per cent increase.
"The bottom line is, we met today, we had a productive meeting and we're going to meet again tomorrow,'' head of Qantas Engineering David Cox said.

The industrial action planned for Wednesday is now scheduled for Friday, but it would not disrupt flight schedules, Mr Cox said.

"This sort of action we could manage - it's low level,'' he said.

"Obviously, if it escalates further, then it escalates further.''

The union has vowed to call four-hour stop-work meetings if Qantas takes action against any union members for taking part in industrial action.
Such meetings would potentially ground all Qantas flights, because jets cannot take off until they have been cleared by a licensed engineer.

[Galley Raider]

It was supposed to start on Wed 9th after 3 full days notification period to members and the company. The union miscalculated the 3 (working)days by assuming it included Sat and Sun as the operation is 24/7. The company fat cats said they only work office hours so new notifiaction had to be given.

So it will now start 0001 on Friday 11.

Strap in gentlemen.

I wonder if the company fat cats will be working 24/7 afterall?

[wingers]

Thanks Galley Raider, what a let down, HERES STUPID ME THINKING ALL IS ABOUT TO BE FINIALISED

I hope this is not a sign of things to come, this is very concerning , FIRST DAY we are suppose to start and we get the basic stuff wrong, geez

[regitaekilthgiwt]

According to the Australian the industral action is being 'delayed' until Friday.

But the only thing being delayed is the flights.

It looks like an impact is already been seen at Sydney International. Obviously some flights will normally leave slightly late due late passengers etc (within 15 minutes is considered on time), however the overall trend is there.

This is Tuesday the 8th of January's Qantas flights from Syd Intl:

QF163....6 mins late
QF47.....18 mins late
QF167....2hrs 37 mins late
QF45.....16 mins late
QF81.....16 mins late
QF43.....17 mins late
QF127....19 mins late
QF107....1hr 23 mins late
QF19.....8 mins late
QF11.....7 mins late
QF189....15 mins late
QF5......27 mins late
QF31.....17 mins late routed via Jakarta...min fuel taken then TEMPO in singas perhaps? :E
QF1......32 mins late
QF117....3 mins early...:eek:...Routed via Christchurch :confused:
QF49.....12 mins late
Qf21.....19 mins late


QUOTE:
"The industrial action planned for Wednesday is now scheduled for Friday, but it would not disrupt flight schedules, Mr Cox said."

Riggggghhhht, Mr Cox perhaps you should look above. :rolleyes:


QUOTE, konehead
"And I think the way we're going about things may just help"

Well it cant make it any worse!!

[perdmm]

Getting back to these Strike breakers.
I know we’ve talked about inductions and such. In our port (in response to a meda) we also have a procedure where new staff are “buddied” up by an existing LAME for a minimum of a couple of weeks.

Have also heard they virtually have nobody interested in the 6 month contract. Wouldn’t that be funny.

[Konehead]

QUOTE, konehead
"And I think the way we're going about things may just help"

QUOTE regitaekilthgiwt: "Well it cant make it any worse!!"

Konehead says: I'm talking in the long term. Sure there'll be some short term pain. But managers need to see numbers going south, not hear LAMEs whinge. Then perhaps pressure from higher up will make them have a good look at themselves! Then the improvements will follow. Or not. :sad:

[domo]

please treat the trolls on this forum like you would treat sca$# do not answer them and ignore them. the thread decends into childish tit for tad when you bother answering them please refrane, good notice from the union and it was good of qantas to point out the mistake I thought that they would say nothing and then declare the action illegal due to not enough notice been given, good to see action on a legal front on the cancelled leave,and good luck to the talks I hope this can be resolved before it gets nasty,

[MENDAERO]

IR, HR and ACS Management have folded and agreed to the ALAEA terms, SYD Base maintenance A330 crews will now consist of 3 Mechanical and 3 Avionic A330 LAME's.:ok:

The extra LAME's will come from the current crew members.

6 LAME's currently not on type
6 AME's

(7 avionic slots and 5 mechanical slots)

A further 4 licenses will be added towards end of 2008 if current workload and flying pattern remain constant.

To backfill these new licenses a blue notice will be posted to all of QE for LAME and AME positions in Base Maintenance.

The A330 crew Lame's can now stay in the A330 crews and not disband on the 10th.

[domo]

good result for the a330 team to think they would have settled for less great for the 12 people been trained.and a breakthru in management to come to the party and invest in training. well done the alaea team.

[company_spy]

Yes a great win by the assn despite a lack of support from some 330 crew members who were obviously trying hard to appease the fat controller and M. Watch out come the revolution, you know who you are.........

[Short_Circuit]

Where will they find any Avionic AME's, that all have gone due no
career prospect at QF or about to move to SIO as of next week!:ugh:

[sikwog]

Can anyone clarify wheather long service leave can be rejected due to qf cancelling leave as I thaught that it can not be refused and it is a part of the award. I have heard a roumor that there is a case in WA and qf were using federal legislation and not local to cancell LSL.

[regitaekilthgiwt]

konehead, thats what I meant too :)

Its time to show the management that the people who keep things running in this company are the engineers and the pilots and the sooner we work together (Qf and its workforce) and start doing things that are seemingly obvious and fair the better.

[Long Bay Mauler]

Watch Today Tonight at 6:30pm as there is supposedly a story about what is happening.........

[The_King]

Dick.Hayes said….
QAN Share price.
Beginning of November $6.05
Beginning of December $5.85
Beginning of January $5.28
I don’t understand, isn’t industrial action good for a share price.OH Well, how low can we go??

Today hit $5.14 before closing at $5.19.
Well done GD.
When will you realize if you upset staff enough, you will ultimately upset the share holders.
Then again, I’m sure all he really cares about is his pay and bonuses.

[HotDog]

Sorry mate but nought to do with the threat of industrial action. World markets including the ASX going through a very volatile period. Today's close down 46 points or 0.75% across the board.

[Short_Circuit]

Cr@p, financial markets are on the slide due to the US credit squeeze, QF is posting record profits of 50% on last year record profit. Share price is falling because of poor management.:ugh:

[amos2]

I gotta tell ya, short circuit...

you aint doin your cause any good! ...

quite frankly, you're quite an embarrassment!!

I think your team could well do without you, if you wanna win this thing!!

So, why don't you just pull your head in Mate?

[NAS1801]

Love your style short circuit..... I will be using this function for the trolls!

[Hasherucf]

As FlexiableResponse mentioned in post 947 the mining industry is screaming out for people with a trade certificate. Gold has hit an all time high of $1000 AUD today. These boom times wont last for ever so if you want a break from Aviation and earn some $$$ then jump on seek.com and get a new career . You can always come back once the resource boom has finished. Why not get paid 100k with 1/3 of the responsibility

Good luck with the fight boys , keep it clean and legal :}

[No SAR No Details]

What,you mean there's more to life than QANTAS. Apparently that's what 260 ex LAMES from Sydney Heavy and other ports have discovered since getting shafted last year.
Go for Gold.
Go for nuclear power.
Go for public transport.
Go for the building industry.
Go for General aviation.
Go for Coal.
Go for your life as Airline careers with ***** like harris in charge are limited.

[FlexibleResponse]

These people are desperate and will pay big bucks. Pick your state or city. 1011 jobs on offer for maintenance engineers in mining industry:

http://www.seek.com.au/jobsearch/index.ascx?DateRange=999&catindustry=1218&catoccupation=1445

[NMDhold]

Just a thought.......

Here's a manager i would trust.....

http://www.referenceforbusiness.com/biography/A-E/Bethune-Gordon-M-1941.html

If someone of this ilk took the reins from the incumbents, we may see more than just the 1.4b profit....

Do I hear 2.5 billion?????

And it would be an enjoyable place to work:)

It seems the Qantas shareholder could do a lot better with the money they throw at the current leadership.


Are there any local Gordon Bethunes out there?


Awaiting "Z" hour......

NMDhold

[regitaekilthgiwt]

It looks like an impact is already been seen at Sydney International. Obviously some flights will normally leave slightly late due late passengers etc (within 15 minutes is considered on time), however the overall trend is there.

This is Wednesday the 9th of January's Qantas flights from Syd Intl:

QF163....11 mins late
QF47.....21 hrs 54 mins late YES it left the next day
QF167....4 mins late
QF45.....9 mins late
QF74.....8 mins late
QF123....16 mins late
QF63.....37 mins late
QF183....8 mins late
QF129....36 mins late
QF43.....14 mins late
QF191....23 mins late
QF127....30 mins late
QF107....35 mins late
QF187....2 mins early
QF11.....19 mins late
QF73.....1 hr 37 mins late
QF41.....8 mins late
QF5......39 mins late
QF31.....4 hrs 36 mins late
QF1......4 hrs 40 mins late
QF117....4 mins late
QF49.....13 mins late
QF3......31 mins late
Qf21.....11 mins late

Meanwhile to Europe...
BA16.....Departed on Schedule
BA10.....Departed on Schedule

[sickofqf]

Re A330 agreement;

What about the guys with the half-A330 ( Engine and core) course who are still waiting for their PCT 2 years later....any agreement on them....I saw nothing in the QF notice about them ?

[beachhead]

The latest notice from the union to the company did seem to help some of those individuals in also picking up the airframe, although it may only be for the guys on the A330 crews.

[Bumpfoh]

Re A330 agreement;

What about the guys with the half-A330 ( Engine and core) course who are still waiting for their PCT 2 years later....any agreement on them....I saw nothing in the QF notice about them ?


Silly c:mad:ts should never have done the course in the first place along with the Cab Int. guys on the last course. It's all or nothing!:ugh:

[HotDog]

Cr@p, financial markets are on the slide due to the US credit squeeze, QF is posting record profits of 50% on last year record profit. Share price is falling because of poor management.


Short Circuit, I'm pleased to see you list your occupation as "Whipping Post" and not as Financial Advisor.:E

[chemical alli]

00.01 hrs this evening ,game on .as if the gingerbeers actually need to do anything, the workloads and logbooks are full with little manpower to take up the slack.
so much meat has been cut from the bone the only taste now is gritty sinuea

[Short_Circuit]

I never said I was the sharpest knife in the draw, but I can make 400 ton of bauxite fly like a bird.

[Long Bay Mauler]

Has there been any word from the Commission today in regards to the cancellation of annual leave and the company opposing the PIA of overtime bans from tonight?

Also heards whipsers yesterday that the union made an excellant 11th hour approach about the EBA to the company which was warmly received.

Any comments ???

[Redstone]

There has been much speculation and unsubstantiated commentary flowing from the grape vine since Friday. That's all well and good, but for mine I think I'll just prepare myself for a long one. Viva La Revolusione!!!!

[chemical alli]

tick ,tock goes the indutrial action clock

redstone i hope it aint viva le revolution as the french lost

my bet at the 11th hour or prcisely 23.59hrs there will be an outcome.

[Long Bay Mauler]

Have heard that AW(from the 3rd floor),CR(from the Melbourne Lean Mean Black Belt society),one of the Sydney twins(from the Pineapple Club),and another non working LAME have been in BNE doing towing training and Local Area procedures as well.:=

Has any other ports had interstate visitors doing the same in the recent days?

[Syd eng]

Just got a union notice saying that no action will now take place until Febuary 1. Looks like they may have got some decent negotiation happening today. All leave for January is now back on too.

[blackhander]

Don't we run out of time to commence action by then?

[Clipped]

Yep, just saw the notice in the smoko room - Parties Hold Fire - why am I so deeply suspicious of Q's motives.

SP (and all)- stay alert.

There is too much history of deceit.

[Syd eng]

Blackhander the notice has an extension for the action by 30 days given by the commission.

[Short_Circuit]

Knowing QF B@st@rds they have ulterior motives up their sleeve,
BE CAREFUL SP, they are as slippery as an eel and half as handsome...:ooh:

[blackhander]

Thanks Syd eng should have checked email before posting

[MENDAERO]

I would just like to point out to everyone this thread is currently the largest thread in D&G Reporting Points with 994 posts, and the thread has been viewed 65,474 times.

A lot of people have taken interest in our EBA negotiations. Thanks

[The Bungeyed Bandit]

I'm sorry guys but I just hope QF management aren't toying with us and Steve and the boys haven't dropped the ball. If we roll over now we"re going to look like a bunch of "SOFT COX".

I'm glad I got my leave back but I would have been quite happy to forgo it if it meant showing our true metal.

87% voted for Industrial Action so if nothing substantial comes from this cooling down period i feel we should come out with all guns blazing. That is full overtime bans, no higher duties and no secondments as of the 1st of February.

[amos2]

So this rather boring thread has now come to a close?

Thank goodness for that!

Off you go guys...

and don't come back! :ok::ok::ok:

[Bumpfoh]

In light of the agreement reached in the AIRC today will QF be re-mailing all those previously contacted for cancellation of Jan leave to inform them of this decision???

Or even the respective managers personally making phone calls to the affected individuals????

I bet I know the answer!!!!!:mad::mad:

[another superlame]

Knowing what QF are like I would bet they are bluffing there way to the end of the Christmas holidays. Trying to save there skin for the time being. Don't forget the bigger picture of what you are all fighting for.
Having faced QF eba's myself it looks all too familiar.
My guess is after Feb 1 they will go back to there pig headed negotiations.

[SCHAIRBUS]

I think in light of the QF2 incident QF management have enough on their plates at the moment and must be happy for some more time.
That said nothing was ever going to happen before the 11th hour, let's hope something good comes of it and it's not just a chain yanking exercise.:suspect:
Keep up the good work ALAEA!:ok:

[Dick.Hayes]

Today 17:47amos2
So this rather boring thread has now come to a close?


Comes to a close... I think we just extended it by 3 weeks.

[Kraaken]

This latest negotiation development is just buying time for QF. They are pretty much fighting off issues on all fronts a the moment and this is just a basic ploy.

What will still be happening is the training up of managers to do transits, the labour hire companies will be still active and as someone mentioned they can get past the xmas holidays without having the deal with some big network impacts should the PIA be enacted.

If you look at the last week QF have complained about all kinds of technicalities in this PIA....dates where wrong, throwing a bone in the A330 discussions to buy some "goodwill" for this move at the AIRC today.

I have faith in your ALAEA exec but there is a big risk in this move and right now I know theres a lot of QF managerial types rubbing there hands and feeling a little less sweat on their brows.

Fingers crossed for you guys.