NATS interview process

[ALS]

Hi, I sat my initial selction test last monday, I've received an email saying they want me to do an SHL Online personality test. Is this normal? Has anyone else had to do this? This is my second attempt and this has scared me, I didn't have to do this last time, and I've not heard that this happens. Am I borderline? Did they lose the personality tests I sat last Monday? Please can someone tell that this is quite normal, and that I'm not going to have the personality transplant that I booked somewhat nervously on the NHS! :eek:

ALS

[anotherthing]

ALS

Calm down!! When did you last apply? Things have changed with recruitment and application methods- you have passed stage one, just relax and follow all instructions - you will not be treated any differently whether you are borderline or not, you have to reach a certain level; if you do, you pass, if you don't, you fail... simple as!!

Chill out and good luck

[Gonzo]

Yep, listen to anotherthing, he's right.

Calm down, do the online thing, which I believe is a self assessment thing, and relax!

:ok:

[ALS]

That's a relief, I've worked really hard over the last year, so I'm a little panicky. Thanks for putting my mind at ease

ALS

[ben-vrs]

didnt do your stage 1 in London last monday morning did you?

[chileconcarne27]

Hi

Same thing happened to me! But i sat my satge one on the 22nd January and it took them the full 15 working days...and some...to get that sent to me! I was a little confused too but i know of some other people on my selection day that have had it too so it seems pretty standard stuff now.

Here's hoping for stage 2!

Chile

[matthewlancs]

Hi

I also went on the initial test day at Manchester Airport on Friday 9th Feb. I have received the same reply as you ALS- and I have just completed the SHL Online Personality Test yesterday.

I am still waiting in anticipation!!!!!


Matt

[shgsaint]

Yep all seems normal to me!

Im in the same boat as Chile at the mo so we're both sweating it out together! ;)

Interesting that it's noted that we've passed stage 1. So is the cous de gras to see if we'd make it and get invited to the actual 2nd stage?

Funny things is after what I answered in the personality questionnaire I think I would be the most unsuitable candidate. :uhoh: I had to be honest though. Ah well cest la vie.

[rickypbrown]

Hi there,

This is to try to help those of you who are thinking about interviewing for an ATCO position with NATS.

I have recently been successful in applying for a position as a trainee ATCO with NATS (last October). As has been previously said the Sticky topic is reasonably outdated although I found it extremely useful during my selection (thanks chaps) I'll give you a brief run through of what to expect.

Stage One -purely to get down the numbers. I had my tests in a hotel in London and dressed in a suit. This is not deamed necessary, but I think any way of increasing your image will ultimately improve the chances of success. The tests begin pretty promptly with a dire psychological personality questionnaire which is laborious and well just deathly boring. (You'll see what I mean)

Next was a diagramming test in which you have a net of a cube with different patterns on it. Next came a cross-checking test which was where you were given a number and you had to locate it in a list by the side, then came the actual aviation-related questions. Gonzo hits the nail on the head when he mentions,

"that the majority of the motivation paper is based on the .pdf document you should have been given. If you read through the document, that's the level of detail of the questions. If you learn the document, then you'll know all the answers. It's that simple. And good practice for when you're at a unit as a trainee and have to learn a fancy document call the Manual of Air Traffic Services Part Two, which might have hundreds of pages!"

These tests are multiple choice, with answers which are very similar. So long as you have learnt the information, you'll be fine.

About a week after the tests I received my invitation to the second stage. Here I had an hour HR interview, another aviation test and a computer test. Although you are given a lot more information to learn prior to the aviation test, this is of little use with the computer test. You cannot prepare for this, just soak it up! Sorting shapes, mental arithmatic, reasoning skills are all tested and I thought I had done appallingly and apparently everyone does!

The third stage, which I received and invitation to about a week after the second stage, consisted of a group exercise which was effectively a board game (and quite fun), and the technical/HR interview, which was tough. DON'T FALL FOR THE ATCO'S TRAPS! Stick to your guns providing you're sure they are sound. If you are unsure, do not be frightened to say so. When I was quizzed I said I wasn't sure, but I would imagine...to some of the questions.

In June I start at the college in Bournemouth, earning 10000 pounds without a living allowance. Providing I make it through a 3 month basic course, I'll either be chosen to follow training as a aerodrome/approach controller for a further 3 months; or as an area controller for a further 6 months. This, as was stressed, is not my decision.

Hope this helps! If you need any further help, do not hesitate to contact me.

Best wishes and good luck,
Ricky Brown.

[NeoDude]

Good info, cheers Ricky.

[Speedbird1T]

Hi Ricky

Thanks for the run through of the different stages. I have one question with regards the spatial awareness cube problems, are you allowed to use scrap paper to assist with working out the solutions, or is it solely a mental exercise ?

BAW1T

[rickypbrown]

Hello there,

You are given pieces of paper to do with whatever you choose. The test consists of around 15 questions per net with 3 different nets of the cubes. Having said this it's worth noting that this is a mental exercise and is designed to test your spatial awareness - so making a working model of the cube from the paper might not be allowed!

Hope this helps.

[ALS]

Hello there,
I've my stage 2 next monday. Does this include the personal interview ie can you give me an example of how you are successful in your job?

ALS

[richyinnewcastle]

ALS,

yes you will have a interview with HR at the second stage , but they don't ask you technical questions so theres not a lot of prep for that.

good luckage

[rickypbrown]

The purpose of the HR interview is to get a glimpse at your personality, interests and aptitude for the job. The questions ask for you to recall situations where you have been resourceful, organised, practical, etc., alongside roles where you have shown team-work, leadership and quick thinking. Much better to try to remember events from your life now, than try to remember in the split-second time you have to respond!

[matthewlancs]

I applied and was accepted to do the initial tests, and then a week or so later I was asked to do an online personality test- NOT AN INTERVIEW????

I was then told that I had not made the standard and I have to wait 12 months before reapplying!!!!!!!!!!!

I wonder why you went through to interview straight away Ricky?

Any ideas anyone?

Matt

[Gonzo]

What did HR say when you rang them?

[chileconcarne27]

I had the same reply from NATS, i had to do the SHL test, which i did on the 13th and didn't hear anything for ages. I phoned HR today and apparently they had 'lost' my printout and that they would get an answer to me by the afternoon, so i waited and eventually wasn't asked to stage 2.

Now, the woman in HR said that the SHL personlaity test was a new thing for 2007 and that anyone who applied from January would be asked to do this in between test. Thing is, i have read (on pprune) that people who did their stage one, after me, only had to wait a few days before being invited to stage 2.

It seems that the left hand isn't talking to the right here and no-one really knows what's going on!!!

Can anyone shed any light?

Chile

[rickypbrown]

I'd imagine doing an online personality test is a way to increase the speed of application. Although, by the sounds of it, it's not helped. When I had my interviews before Christmas, the guys who went through with me all followed exactly the same route as I did and found out at the same time. HR might be able to give you a little bit of information as to why you failed. They're lovely and extremely helpful if you give them a chance!

[EGMC]

I got a cheeky little email this afternoon from HR (I'm in!), wasnt expecting ANYTHING on this 'day of rest'... maybe HR are working shifts like ATCO's!

Ayway, I thought I'd write up my experience. But personally, I thought that stage 2 was the hardest, followed by, yes-stage 1!!!..... or maybe I was just more thoroughly prepared for this final stage.

I really think that these Stage 3 events start earlier than is necessary, I mean 8:30 does SOUND okay, but when you factor in:
1- Get up early enough to eat, shower and be presentable.
2- Get on public transport, which involves one or two changes, and you crossing your fingers that no delays occur, or even that there is room for you to squeeze your body onto the tube when it arrives at rush hour!
3- Allowing enough time to find the place which is usually easy enough… but you have to factor in some insurance time!
4- Getting there STILL a little early to feel the place out and at least calm your nerves, or go the bathroom.

….well then you would be in for a wake up time that most ATCO’s know all about, as they are well used to it - its quite funny really when you introduce yourself to your assessors and they tell you that NATS paid for them to crash at the luxury hotel last night… but if that’s an indication of how NATS treats its committed and qualified staff- I cant wait to be in the company!

But quite honestly I [B]don’t mind getting up at that hour as I actually am used to it for work- but it would be a lot more worthwhile if this event was held at an ACTUAL NATS establishment [this was an opinion shared by my two assessors].


On my day, there were just 3 sweaty wannabees; things were never awkward or tense. The group exercise coming first does actually puts you at ease- even though the hawk-eyes are watching over you. I think the main thing to remember is that you do not have to succeed in the game you just need to listen to and help each other…. It’s a TEAMWORK assessment!

You do feel the gradual warmth of the company being introduced as not only do they Pay for your travel [within reason], but they also provide you with a delicious lunch.
I appreciate all of this and wouldn’t have issues if these nice gestures weren’t there- I think I share the opinion of the ‘old’ passionate [&luckier] generation that we are fortunate to be getting these ‘give-backs’… in some professions- especially with pilot training/jobs you have to PAY for such assessments[they say “GIVE US £££”]. NATS are offering Golden tickets to this TATCO factory, we should appreciate the providential offer that is on the table… they even give you a little help whilst you train!
…. Okay ‘Pizza hut’ paid me whilst I trained too- but that was for 3 weeks and the pay didn’t change much after a month or two years.

Lunch is ‘sandwiched’ between the interviews… it was a casual affair, just pigging out basically…and interrupting the assessors between each mouthful for a mouthful of answers to our questions- I didn’t ask them any Q’s in the interview as I didn’t feel right to switch from the position of being grilled to being inquisitive… I did however ask about my stage2 results… I was denied, [they simply said- good enough to sit me down across the table from them and that’s all that was required] - I think the main justification would be that if they told me I might tell others [or even post on PRRuNe]- and then everyone with a pulse would demand to know... (I think that they are busy enoug as it is!)
I wasn’t asked any technical or a/c recog Q’s. Having done a PPL, and the amount of research I had done in preparation meant it would have been a formality anyway.

They were interested in my tower visit, and how I had arranged that.

I was given a couple of scenarios to handle and they are looking for you to explore and exhaust all schemes and initiatives, not to fix on one solution adamantly if the situation develops and at least ACT like you are re-thinking the situation with the new information in mind.

People say it time and time again:
“don’t be easily led, be flexible in your position when new info comes in…. and with HR relate everything to ATCO qualities whilst providing examples”. However, the thing you may not realise is that when you are in the interview it will beckon on you that you don’t HAVE time to think too much and its better to just give an honest response. A short 3-second pause is all you feel is appropriate, a bit of ‘ummmmm’-ing and ‘errrr’-ing CAN help but it does not LOOK too good for your credibility when you say you make quick decisions without faffing around.

Lastly, I think it’s important to be friendly with them before the ‘assessing’ starts, and at lunch because at the end (or rather- at the beginning) of the day they ARE nice people, human like us, and are obviously interested in improving the company and the quality of the people in their profession. They also appreciate that as long as you have skills for the job it does not mean that you are a pleasure to work with. Being an ATCO is a lifestyle and it might be useful if the people you work and socialise with are people that you can get along with. We know you are nervous, but try to say something interesting/ make a joke or just don’t sound completely dry- it IS easy to do that when you are nervous.

PS: I went to the bathroom 4 times in the period of the 1st interview… so did the guy I was waiting with!.... mind you, at least we didn’t go together!

Any PM’s?- feel free:ok:

[aaaabbbbcccc1111]

I got a cheeky little email this afternoon from HR (I'm in!), wasnt expecting ANYTHING on this 'day of rest'... maybe HR are working shifts like ATCO's!

Not shifts, but unpaid overtime, to try to catch up on the weeks work, and I think its admirable that someone is prepared to do that, although they still get some stick. I bet it made your day.

[KatieJ]

Congratulations on getting in EGMC, thanks for the overview, I have my third stage in a couple of weeks and any information helps! :)

[QPR_Spotter]

Hi All
Just Finished my first stage in London Cumberland Hotel . Was like Rickypbrown said would be, I was not able to finish all of the questions and later in the Debrief the Chap,A Controller from Heathrow said we are not meant to .Phew that was a relief and if we get through all our stages then we are looking for a start time of Sep or Dec
I hope I done enough to go through

[rickypbrown]

Congratulations QPR spotter! Let's hope you do get selected for the second stage! Question: Anyone starting in June at the college?

[nthomas1987]

Hello there, i am going to my NATS stage 3 selection day next thursday and would love some advice on what to expect!
Can anyone who has completed successfully this day please give me a little inside info on what to expect in the interview (example questions would be much appreciated!) Feeling a little nervous and a few hints to put me at rest would be a great help.
Nick

[EGMC]

REALISE that every interview will be different.
1- Because you are different from all the 'others' &
2- Because the same HR and ATCO don’t sit every assessment

...That said Nick, look at the tiscali site if you haven’t already
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/radar2001/resources/recruit_menu.htm (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/radar2001/resources/recruit_menu.htm)

but whilst it is fresh from last week:

Tell us about yourself [hobbies/fam/life story]
Any RECENT big decisions- how did you go about making them?
What are important characteristics for an ATCO to have?
Why do you 'wannaB' an ATCO?
Why do ya wanna work for NATS?
What can ya BRING to NATS?
How do you deal with criticism?
What are your goals?

How did the team game go...'TRUTHFULLY'
..... I think they were asking me to bad-mouth/dish the dirt to be honest, but give good analysis and constructive criticism of the event, rather than personal likes/dislikes... try and remember names and USE them [which also helps to remember them-how useful!].

MY CLOSING ADVICE Nick,
Every night think of 1or2 questions they COULD ask you. Picture the pause and feeling of silence and you looking dumbfounded with inevitability of you NOT being able to answer such a simple personal question- then, in the comfort of your own home give a good answer [or think of a couple]...which is TRUE and also RELATES to ATC.
This will help in two ways: 1-it’ll help you to cope with the feeling of interview and the ****-hit-fan silence, 2- it'll give you good answers to play with when some of the questions are eventually asked.

but when I say play them out in your head...actually DO that, do it in REAL time... try not to simply fob it off by summarizing in your head and going 'yeah- SORTED!'

PS: It's not ALL formal, you MIGHT get a chance to lunch with them too. If so, utilise that to show interest in what they do- both of them [i.e. HR too]. Try not to skank off on ones self will show em what a great colleague you'd be!
Bear in mind that even though that ISNT part of the assessment, who in their right mind would employ a passable interviewee if they had an argumentative and self-righteous attitude

[rickypbrown]

EGMC's advice is extremely useful...however, thought I'd add to it. My interview was very technical, possibly due to my PPL/IR knowledge. AS such I was required to describe the holding at Heathrow, and how arrivals are coordinated. Additionally, I was urged to suggest how a controller can calculate the distance/time delay for arriving and departing aircraft.

In short, I'd keep quiet anything you are unsure of and instead, mention technical aspects you are certain of. I made the mistake of mentioning that Heathrow has in addition to the standard ILS approach, an MLS. I was then required to give some detail about this...I HAVE NO IDEA! All I knew was that it allows for a curved approach. When asked how, I simply said I do not know. Don't be afraid to admit you are unsure, as the ATCOs will set traps.

Anyway, good luck and do not hesitate toget in touch if you need any further information!

[Gonzo]

Ahh, excellent (rubs hands together....)

I now know which questions not to ask on Thursday..... :E

[EGMC]

oopsie!
I wish we could say the thread was all a decoy and the real juice is on a circulating PM, but were just not that smart....YET! [I'm hoping CATC will spit us out with a new brain!].

In my interview- I was twice asked about what sources I had used to gather information [this was on two different suubjects mind you]. One of my awkwardnesses in the interview was mentioning PPRuNe; I wanted to shout it out because it HAD been so usefull and it WAS true, but it just didnt feel right- to the extent it made me coil a little and say 'forums' instead... [which is ALSO true as there are a few others!]

I hadnt made many posts, and I still havent...but i was apprehensive about expressing opinions on PPRuNe pre-interview [but now I'm free to shov my opinion in the spotlight. ha-ha!]

AND funnily enough I got interviewed by an ATCO that works at the SAME unit I went to visit just 4 days prior!!! What'r the chyancees!?... No doubt the assessor did a thorough job and asked the WM [Watch] if 'that 101-Question/minute wanaB was a pain in the brain, and if he behaved himself' etc.

On another thread Gonzo recounts a not so fond memory of a VATSIM-er trying to give him some OJT, just imagine walking through the door to find the same guy behind the assessors desk...very similar to the image of the brown stuff passing through a Turbo-fan i would think!

[Gonzo]

Only joking, EGMC. It's just a bit funny when you get candidates who mention PPRuNe as part of their preparation, and blindly follow what's been written here as the 'right answer'. :E

[rickypbrown]

lol Gonzo! Didn't mean to give away secrets there! Sorry!

[Gonzo]

Don't worry Ricky, as I said, it's quite good sport to give those who only read PPRuNe and don't do any other prep enough rope.....:E

[ShuttleSixYankee]

Just got back from the test day here in London.
Much shorter than it was last year. Just under 3 hours in total. I noticed NATS have dropped the 'Numerical Ability' test and have shortened the 'Personality Questionnaire'. (What happened to the fantastic 248 question one!?) :*

There wasn't an ATCO present last year so it was interesting this time round to hear the chap from B'ham give his talk and play the NATS video. Perhaps it was his Northern humour but the talk looked to put anyone right off!!! 'The social life is going to take a battering'; 'They'll be paying you a fantastic £10K!'; 'You might even get to work on Xmas day!'...
J/K, I'm sure (hope) people weren't too fooled.

There were only 10 people though this morning, which surprised me slightly; I thought there would be many more.

Oh well, let's see what the results bring...


SHT6Y

[nthomas1987]

Thanks for the advice guys, and the link much appreciated! Going to go and continue working through that motivation test info we were given! thansk again!
Nick

[mpplp]

Hello all....

I too had my interview this week at the Cumberland Hotel, Tuesday afternoon! Was a wee bit dissapointed about the lack of females!!! 1 out of 23.... but i guess i didnt attend the interview to try and improve my sex life!

I have kept in touch with a couple of the guys from the other day, and one of them has already received an e-mail saying that he didnt meet the required standards! That was on thursday. However, I have received an e-mail asking me to complete an online personality test - 100 questions.... Was the most boring 40 minutes of my life i think.

Just have a couple of questions.

1) If I havent met the required standard; how long is it normally before they tell you? I just hope its not going to be 3 weeks of an agonising wait just to be told to bugger off!!!

2) How long is it normally between stage 1 and stage 2 (and fingers crossed, stage 3)?


Ta very much

[rickypbrown]

Mpplp,

The process has changed a little since I went through application, but it took around 10 days to be invited through to stage two. However, that was without the online personality test. I can't imagine that would delay the process too much! It's around a 3 month process all in all from initial testing to completion of medical; at least it was for me!

By the way, there are much better places to improve your sex life than job interviews! Tut tut!:=

[timelapse]

I recently did stage 1 and the online personality questionnaire.. then I waited..
and waited..
15 working days later I phoned HR who told me that sometimes the SHL website doesn't tell them when new tests have been completed so they don't get notified. However, the tests are still stored.. I gave my details and they found my test and then processed it and let me know within the hour (through to stage 2, on 26th march :)).
So I would say if you haven't heard anything it's worth checking..
I asked about how it works as well, and being asked to do the online questionnaire means you've passed the initial tests. It itself is a pass/fail thing though, not just a subjective information-gathering tool that they can talk through at interview, which is what I thought at first, so those boring 40 minutes will decide whether or not you get through.
HTH

[EGMC]

mpplp you nutter!...what’s all that chat about girl-spotting at interview?... PLEASE don’t mention THAT as your 'motivation' for the job! lol.

The online ‘time-waste’ wasn’t part of my selection process, but I DONT think you can 'fail' on that [assuming you be honest!]... They will prob use some software from the 90's to crosscheck all these quizzes to determine:
1- Are you lying? [Who wants an ATCO that blags]
2- How do you learn?
3- Ammo for the face-to-face questioning
...and maybe a 4 [but I'm not sure]- by looking at the results they can archive and use this data to help with future recruitment predictions and favoured traits.

Reading threads from 2004 you will get the impression that HR are really sleeping when they go to work- I don’t know what has changed but they are on red-bull or summat these days… I wouldn’t be surprised if the wait’s were a week apart [I'd never say 3 weeks as 10 working days can only be 2 weeks and a bit if a BH comes up... e.g. good Friday/mayday].

If you read my earlier post, I was contacted on a Sunday...that was a stage 3 result though, but why dont you ask the other ppl if/when they got asked to do the online thingy-ma-jingy?

I know it’s hard to follow this advice but:
Forget about the turn-around times; just get on with prep for the next episode. Try not to aim for short-term memorisation of stuff. If you try and learn it all a little more in-depth with interest you will actually make it stick and always have that in your skull for further use.... Even if you get to the college

PS: be gratefull that there WASN'T any1 you were attracted to....attraction=distraction [dem gals:rolleyes: ]

[timelapse]

The online ‘time-waste’ wasn’t part of my selection process, but I DONT think you can 'fail' on that [assuming you be honest!]

Apparently you can according to the lovely lady I spoke to, who processed the application.. she said "but if you fail it doesn't mean you're a bad person!" - how relieved was I to hear that? :P

[mpplp]

Thank you all for your replies!

Still havent been told i havent met the grade so thats comforting!!! :)


What sort of information will I have to prepare for for stage 2, is it purely a computer test. Speaking to the ATCO last Tuesday he only mentioned a computer test, where we had to concentrate on keeping dots on a screen bumping inyto each other (which I assume is basic ATC anyway!) and answering long multiplication/division questions...

What does the medical comprise of? Being a uni student for the past couple of years I hope I fail on my urine consisting of mainly alcohol!!!! Also, I'm athsmatic but i can't see that having too much influence on the application. Just kinda wondering what they could fail you on? Surely all you need is a working brain, a torso and 2 arms!!!? And when would the medical test be? between stage 3 and training?

Also when would training start, I hear there's a course starting in July.... is there still time to get into that start date, or would it be a later one?

Sorry for all the questions!!!

Again, Ta very very much!!!

[smellysnelly2004]

What he described is one part of three in the computer tests. I shouldn't worry too much about the maths sums if you don't have time (prioritisation and all that). You cannot prepare for it so don't stress too much and just relax. It's supposed to be hard to see how you react under pressure.

Medical will be after stage 3 and before training. Eyesight(very thorough), hearing, urine (only testing for drugs, not booze) and some nasty breathing ones. If you be male then you get your bits felt by the doctor - not the highlight of the day but it's over pretty quick.

Any questions, feel free to PM me

[richyinnewcastle]

I'm trying to think of a reason why it would be necessary to get your bits felt by the doc to become an air traffic controller.... and erm I'm stuck :ugh:

mpplp, there is a course starting in July they tried to get me on to that one about 4 weeks ago (Because I would be finished uni then), but I had put on my form cant start until September so I got out of that one.. not sure if they are still trying to fill the July one.

You book the medical as usual on the candidate booker, I was offered dates for about a 2 months after I heard, hence I'm going in the Easter holidays..

Goodluckage, if you do get through, and are starting in Sept, lemme know, or anyone for that matter :ok:

rich

[SACrIGGER]

There is a very good reason why a doc should 'feel' your bits.

If like alot of people you don't feel your own, then you could have a very nasty shock when you are diagnosed with a late stage of testicular cancer.

I checked my own, and I'm still here to tell my tale.

Another thing the doc looks for down there is a hernia, that's when they do the old 'cough' routine.

[smellysnelly2004]

They check almost every aspect of your health, so an examination down under can be important. I presume the thinking is that if NATS are going to spend the £250,000 (not sure about the figure) on training then they want the maximum info possible before offering employment.

[timelapse]

I also am very midly asthmatic and was concerned about that aspect of the medical - my peak flow/FEV1s are very good though (have Class 2 medical at the moment for PPL) so I reckon I should be fine.. I just hope they don't make you do the same run-around-the-building-for-10-minutes tests that class 1 pilot medicals get.. If so I'd better get practicing :(

The reasoning behind that sort of test, I believe, is to test your breathing when confronted with a situation where the amount of oxygen you need or can take in is changed, like in a depressurisation.. and I would hope that wouldn't apply for ATC.

My class 2 doc said I shouldnt have a problem with class 1 (for flying) anyway so I'm quite hopeful that it won't be a problem, if I get that far!!

I've not had an attack or anything ever and have never been hospitalised because of it. I think as long as you're not likely to have any problems operationally, your asthma is well under control, and a doctor can send a note which supports that then you're likely to be fine, but I'm only hypothesising.. I've read that it helps if you have a note from your GP at the time to explain your history.

Has anyone had any experience with asthma first hand in an ATC medical? Do they just check peak flow/FEV1?

[SACrIGGER]

£600,000 is the figure the going around the college.

[rickypbrown]

I heard it was £600,000 too! Why they're investing that in me, I'll never know! lol

As for the medical, it's not too bad. It was suprisingly less difficult than I had imagined it being. Just try your best in the interviews, not worth worrying about medical as there's nothing you can do!

I really can't wait to start...I was told a start date of 21st June for the course! Why did you put off starting in June Richy?!

[richyinnewcastle]

emm few reasons really, for one I would miss graduation ceremony at Uni, which I felt would be a bit unfortunate, and secondly I already had a ton of things planned for the summer ..

I did put on my application that I wasn't available to work until September so there was no problem really when it came down to it :) (apart from the one phone call that made me feel like I had to chose June or nothing :hmm:) hmm.

Rich

[rickypbrown]

I couldn't wait! My graduation ceremony is at the weekend I believe so should be manageable! Anyway...I'll be around at the college...hopefully...when you start!

[latitudehopper]

Hello to everyone who was at the interview (stage 1) good luck too.

[bbhagwagar]

hiii
this is brijesh from india, i have indian passport and i want to know that shall i get admission into nats. plz let me know, i m waiting for ur favorable responce. u can mail me on [email protected] as well.

[rickypbrown]

Bbhagwagar,

As part of the NATS application process you are required to produce proof of residency in the UK.

[ShuttleSixYankee]

As part of the NATS application process you are required to produce proof of residency in the UK.

I don't think you have to be resident in the UK. You'll need a permit to work in the UK though. NATS recruit controllers that live abroad too.

[Gonzo]

You have to be able to live and work permanently in the UK.

[latitudehopper]

Im so upset. I just found out that i haven't even made it to stage 2. I'm gutted. I really thought I had done well on the tests, the mental reasoning tests were fine, the knowledge tests I knew it all as I studied my ass off and I am an aviation anorak. It's such a shame NATS do not give feedback as I cant think how i would do differently. Even if it was a numbers issue where they needed to cut some people at the outset, I would like to have been told that. Best of luck to everyone else.

[Gonzo]

Just to assuage your concerns, there are no 'quotas' or similar at work. If everyone at the first stage passes all the tests, then everyone gets to stage 2.

[EGMC]

The good thing about NATS is that they allow you to apply 3 times.

The thing I would be concerned about if I were you is running this race again next year [or even sooner- I dunno, ya probably COULD!].

Stage 1: get a few books that teach you to use your brain a little better in these tests/spend some dosh on those practice tests...even use shl if you want!

Spend your free time in aviation, you learn so much by just being in the scene. Even try working in aviation if you can.

But most importantly use your time productively with a focus of that final hurdle in stage 3, where they will ask you 'what you have done for a year?'...

...think of it this way- you have a year to get things right, not just for interviews but for college too.

[EGMC]

Hey Gonzo I have a [stupid] question,

Sorry to direct this question at you, but if anyone else can help... feel free to chip in:

Lets say in a 40 Question test you get through 30 questions and you are 99% sure that ALL of THOSE are correct!... The invigilator says a dreaded "2 minutes left", and you think- as it is an MCQ you have a chance to get 2 or 3 MORE questions correct of you just GUESS the rest.

Candidate A:
This person got 29 correct in the first 30 Q's...THEN got 8 wrong in the last 10. He obviously just guessed them- we do not want somebody who blags and guesses the answer... Plus, really he only got 77%

Candidate B:
gets the same score up to the point when the invigilator says "2 minutes", but then carries on as normal and spends two minutes on one question and gets it right, scoring 30 out of 40 = 75%

So although this person got a lesser score, still scored quite well, and out of those he attempted got a whopping 97%. He didn’t try to blag his way through but was more concerned with doing his job well or not at all

I would assume that the MCOR sheets [or whatever you call them] are scanned by a computer/reader, but do HR analyse any information/data or is it a simple pass/fail scoring system.

[Boscome]

If its the ATC test you are talking about they are not negatively marked.....at the moment!

[Boscome]

latitudehopper, Gonzo is correct there are no Quotas however if NATS get short on numbers for a course they have started to look at "just failed" candidates. Unfortunately for you this is being applied to the failures from stage 3 but you never know how desperate they will become.

[timelapse]

When I did my stage 1 in January, we didn't do the aviation knowledge exam.. I was told that this would be done in stage 2 (which is in a week and a bit).

Is this the same for anyone else? It seems from the posts above that the knowledge exam was done in stage 1 for some people and stage 2 for others.. If that's the case, how will they differentiate when stage 2 comes around? Unless everyone has to do a knowledge test in stage 2 from that lovely PDF regardless of what they did in 1?

"The day will consist of a Motivation paper, a personality questionnaire, computer tests, and a structured interview."

Buuut - I've already done an online personality questionnaire! :ugh: :ugh: :}

Seems that only so much preparation can help. We were told we'd have the motivation test in stage 1 at the beginning, so I learnt it really thoroughly, but then that never actually happened! Bizarre. It's all a big test, isn't it :P

[EGMC]

No- I know that there is no -ve marking. I'm saying do HR analyse the way in which the applicant approached the tests/what they decided was important for a result.

This is the first time they see how you react in a relatively stressful and time-demanding situation... And are likely to see a bit of your TRUE personality in your approach. Seeing as they delegate part of the day to personality questionnaires
I would be surprised if they do not look at HOW you answered the brain tests!

For instance, candidate A scored a better score but I think we would all chose candidate B as a more suitable candidate.

So from a HR perspective should you guess the remaining questions in order to have a chance to pick up a few points, or is it better to do the best from what you attempted and get a higher relative percentage?

[Gonzo]

EGMC,

Candidate A:
This person got 29 correct in the first 30 Q's...THEN got 8 wrong in the last 10. He obviously just guessed them- we do not want somebody who blags and guesses the answer... Plus, really he only got 77%

Candidate B:
gets the same score up to the point when the invigilator says "2 minutes", but then carries on as normal and spends two minutes on one question and gets it right, scoring 30 out of 40 = 75%

So although this person got a lesser score, still scored quite well, and out of those he attempted got a whopping 97%. He didn’t try to blag his way through but was more concerned with doing his job well or not at allI have to say that I don't know. However, you could look at it the other way: Candidate A used his initiative and knew he wasn't going to finish all the questions if he worked them out, given two minute left, so he guessed them; while Candidate B steadfastly refused to change his plan in the face of overwhelming evidence that he'd not finish all the questions.

It's been a few years since I did the tests myself, and I remember I finished most of them, but I guessed the last few if I was running out of time.

As far as I know, it's just a straight total up the marks, rather than weighting any particular questions.

[Boscome]

Agree, don't over analyze...they won't know you guessed them:) !

[Gonzo]

Timelapse, there are two different knowledge tests, one at stage 1 and one at stage 2.

[timelapse]

Aha thanks - makes sense! Sounds like the first one got omitted then on my round for whatever reason :O

[EGMC]

Good point Gonzo,

Sorry 'bout all of that... it WAS a little pedantic I suppose anyway, but I just remembered feeling very paranoid about my approach in that little waiting period.

The two pdf motivation booklets were very similar, so it would make sense to merge them into one test, but when I did them [Oct&Nov], I sat two. One at stage 1, the other at stage 2... the second one had a few more DST calculations in them... right at the end too! [when your brain was already frazzled!]

[Gonzo]

Never apologise for asking a question!:ok:

[ShuttleSixYankee]

Just been sent an e-mail from NATS HR asking me to complete the Personality Questionnaire, which is meant to take 40 minutes. Sounds like it will be something similar to last years Stage 1 Questionnaire.

SHT6Y

[timelapse]

SHT6Y - It's great fun! Enjoy every second of it..

(It's horrible)

[kazzy01]

It's worth spending the time doing it, as I went for my first stage tests last Thursday. Did the online personality test on Tuesday evening and have had an email this morning inviting me to Stage 2.

The dates for Stage 2 are 26th March to 5th April, so the sooner you do it and find out, the more time you will have to prepare for the next stage - assuming you get through!

[kazzy01]

Actually, I'd like to ask a question myself to anyone who has recently been through the process for Stage 2.

Is the structured interview an HR one or does it involve ATCO's?

When I last went through the selection process, you had computer tests, HR interviews and also one with ATCOs. It's not clear from the email I've been sent what it will exactly involve...

Thanks

[ShuttleSixYankee]

That was nasty!

[timelapse]

Indeed.


Which of these 4 essential ATCO qualities is the least true of you... :ooh:

[Gonzo]

Is the structured interview an HR one or does it involve ATCO's?HR only.

The ATCO/HR interview is at stage 3

[ShuttleSixYankee]

Which of these 4 essential ATCO qualities is the least true of you... :ooh:

That question didn't come up for me... :hmm:
Wonder if the questions are generated based on answers which we put into the 'Learning Styles' questionnaire at the initial tests.

[timelapse]

What I mean is the questions for me were all similar to this..

Which of these is the most and least true of you

a) I'm motivated
b) I work well in a team
c) I am calm under pressure
d) I take control of a situation

Tough stuff!

[ShuttleSixYankee]

Doh, sorry - with you now.

I know what you mean - they were like fail/fail answer options!!!

[timelapse]

Yeah exactly.. Lots of stuff repeated but worded slightly differently too, probably to catch you out.
Well, good luck! I hope you get kazzy01's turnaround time and not mine ;)

btw, if anyone wants someone to study with for stage2 tests via MSN or something then feel free to email/pm me (mine is on the 26th)

[Gemsound]

Hi,

I too have been fortunate enough to get through the stage 1 tests, and the fail/fail multiple personality questionairre, and have the pleasure of the stage 2 tests and interview in a few weeks time. Does anyone have any words of wisdom on what to expect and how (apart from reading the document they give you) one should prepare?

Thanks!
Gemsound

[loumelon]

Hi there,

Really useful info! Cheers! Could anyone tell me a little more about the second stage? I have mine coming up next week! Is it really just the info on the link that can be used to prepare? I was worried in case this info may crop up in the interview! All advice is much appreciated! :)

[timelapse]

Anyone else got stage 2 on monday? I'm a very willing tester/testee :)

[NeoDude]

Nope. Week on Monday for me. Currently trying to write down as many possible interview questions as I can think of. Tomorrow I'll have a go at answering them :}

[bob marley]

unfortunately, i was turned down at the final hurdle for the nats training.
if anyone wants any info on any part of the interview/test process i would be more than happy to help if i can.
(i was turned down fairly recently, february)

[Clown Fish]

Hi,

I have the second stage soon and was wondering if the questions that will be asked will be based around the booklet that Im supossed to read up on, or does that info need to be learnt for stage 3 (technical interview)

What sort of questions have other people had asked at the stage 2 interview?

What can I do to prepare for the computer test at sage 2?

Thanks for any help

Clown fish.

[bob marley]

clown fish,
the booklet of information that you have downloaded is used in one of the tests at stage 2, therefore it goes without saying that you need to study it, it is also used for the stage 3 interview but in much greater detail.
the computer tests are difficult to advise on, they are one of those things you can either do or you cant. they are fairly straight forward(in my opinion)
good luck with it

[Clown Fish]

Cheers Bob,

Got the booklet sorted out now, just nervous about the structured HR interview now.

[NeoDude]

Join the club.

1 week to go :uhoh:

[kazzy01]

Can anyone who has sat the motivation paper from Stage 2 this week provide an insight into it compared to the Stage 1 one?

How many questions is it? Are they multiple choice? Is it on paper or computer?

Any hints on particular bits of the document to gen up on?

How was the HR interview? Is it really as structured as they say?

And what were the computer tests like?

Thanks

[MancBoy]

Why don't you just come out and ask for all the answers!

[kazzy01]

That would be cheating, and I have got some intelligence enough to learn the document!

[rickypbrown]

Hello there!

A slightly more helpful answer I hope: The second of the motivation papers is slightly more difficult and does tend to test the details given in the document - including frequencies. It also requires you to answer some more mathematical problems. It is similar in length to the initial. Best advice, just learn the ENTIRE document. You'll need to know it at some point anyway!

The HR interview isn't too bad. It's an hour long with a member of the HR team. They don't smile, don't really react to anything you tell them. They merely have a bunch of questions and a list of possible answers. They'll stop you once they have got an answer that is similar to yours.

The computer tests are hellish! Can't really describe them without enducing a hell of a lot of fear on your part. They're horrible, but manageable. Just prioritise and don't let it stress you out too much! It's around 30-60 mins long and you can take all the time you want. Also, you can practice before hand. I'd recommend making sure you know exactly what you're doing before moving on to the actual thing! lol.

Hope this helps, Ricky.

[MancBoy]

Ricky, I was merely stating that some people are coming on here and pretty much asking for the answers to the tests!!

Not cheating but not far off!

If, a big If, you and your friends make it to live training then you are going to be expected to use a lot of your own brain to go and find out the stuff for yourself, no website to help you learn the MATS part 2 I'm afraid!

[timelapse]

Did stage 2 yesterday, found out I got through today.. amazing turn around time!! Didn't expect anything for weeks..

I was utterly convinced I'd failed the computer tests, so just goes to show! :}

[EGMC]

Hey Kazzy,

You said, you "have got some intelligence enough to learn the document!",

...But beware- I learnt that document backwards and still got baffled on some of those Q's. Some of the later Q's are lengthy D-S-T scenarios, and in retrospect I would have been better off reading&answering those first! [my brain was getting frazzled at the end... mind you the HR lady came back a little late and we had a few extra minutes to complete!]

Going back to what I said about 'knowing' the document... You sometimes THINK you know it, but until you start attempting questions you dont realise how tricky it can get... So try and make a few up beforehand etc to get into the answering frame of mind rather than... 'yeah, I know what VOR stands for!'.

Ricky is right about the computer tests, mind you I have heard that they dont rely on them too heavily [but dont take MY word for it]...
He's a lickle wrong about the 'They don't smile' image... I got a few cheeky grins outa my designated lady... With a giant chess set sitting outside the atmosphere was asking for us to burst out laughing [CTC only].

But as always- expect the worst and you will do well in any situation.

There is one other place that you can find 'all the answers' as Manc says you're after...and thats http://www.pprune.org/forums/index.php

PM me if ya want anything mo' specific...

EGMC

[Gonzo]

computer tests, mind you I have heard that they dont rely on them too heavily

Interesting EGMC, where have you heard that?

[timelapse]

I would hazard a guess that the factors being tested by the computer tests aren't just what they appear to be testing, but I'm probably wrong :ooh:

Gonzo - are LL tower visits a possibility at the moment? :)

[EGMC]

Gonzo,

I would JUST like to emphasise the 'too heavily', and more importantly the ''.

On my final stage, one of the other interviewees [who is an ATSA], said that the HR guy at his stage 2 told him this.
Specifically the [B]last of the 3 tests, which is like a 1980 Amstrad ATC game- was there in a kinda testing phase to identify any positive correlation towards the success at college.

I wouldnt suggest that any of the testing is not used in actual decisions but I was under the impression that it isn't given such a heavy weight as people fear.

I am of course just saying something that somebody told somebody who then told another somebody :hmm: ... So a rumour!

Incase anybody has the wrong impression, I would advise to do your very best at everything and assume that every little assessment is critical in the outcome as to weather you get a good email or a bad email.

Yeah Timelapse, I agree- some people thought the 3rd test was a direct ATC ability test because you are essentially seeing a simplified traffic screen... But really it is testing specific skills like prioritising and multi-tasking

[Gonzo]

Wasn't suggesting anything on your part, EGMC, just curious.

[feinwerkbau]

Most people seem to think that they have failed the stage2 computer test. :ugh: When I did it in October I couldn't wait for it to be over!! Structured interview was not as bad as I thought it would be...probably cos I had prepared for the worst imaginable questions. And yes the rumours are true they are not supposed to smile or give you any sort of feedback but the woman doing my interview ended up laughing at one of my answers....can't remember what I said but it must have been funny!!:D :D

[rickypbrown]

Didn't mean any disrespect MancBoy, but you did seem to be a little unhelpful and, dare I say, unfriendly!

I look forward to the challenges that lay before me at the college and understand that my friends and I will have to work bloody hard, but there is nothing wrong with giving prospective candidates a little description as to what to expect is there? After all, I wasn't giving the answers; merely, just a little "heads up" with regards what to expect. :ooh:

[MancBoy]

Ricky, if that is your real name, then If you make it to Swanwick our paths may cross and you'll see how helpful and friendly I can be.

In fact, I gave one of your trainee friends a tour of Swanwick just last week!

If you respect me, my friend, then I will respect you, bearing in mind that I am the one who will be signing off your assessments should you get that far.

[intherealworld]

"On my final stage, one of the other interviewees [who is an ATSA], said that the HR guy at his stage 2 told him this.
Specifically the last of the 3 tests, which is like a 1980 Amstrad ATC game- was there in a kinda testing phase to identify any positive correlation towards the success at college."

In fact it is beyond that phase as it has already been proved to have no relevance to validation rates as I understand it and does indeed not 'count' on the day.

Ricky:
I can indeed concur that MancBoy is a particular helpful bod and to add to what he said, having everything provided on a plate might help you get so far, but it will be a false security as things don't get put on a plate once at a unit. It's in the companies interest and definitely your own that if you don't have what it takes that you get weeded out now. It will only prolong the heartache and credit card bill if it happens further down the line.

[timelapse]

In fact it is beyond that phase as it has already been proved to have no relevance to validation rates as I understand it and does indeed not 'count' on the day.

Then why still do it? Other than to induce stress in poor applicants just before they go and do an HR interview :)

[MancBoy]

intherealworld, do I know you?

Thanks for the kind words.:ok:

[intherealworld]

timelapse; because in true NATS fashion it's too expensive to redesign it. It's prob best you learn to cope with the stress now. Many oral boards to follow if you get through!

[timelapse]

Ah so when they're forced to replace those aging laptops, they can change it then..

Pretty sure it said ©SHL 1992 on the startup screen :ok:

[rickypbrown]

EGMC, I apparently do not possess the same charm and charisma as you then! :(

[feinwerkbau]

1992!!! That is soooooooooo modern we have a computer system at work that I think is from before I was even born (I was born in 1979 BTW) it does what it has to do even though it seems to do it all in slow time though and is highly annoying when it plays up.

[gastra]

Hi there,

I have been accepted to go and attend the first stage of the application process.

Can anyone tell me what the tests are like on stage one...especially regarding the maths.Basically what im asking is whether its really hard?
My maths is not poor but it is not super super good either.
Are the SHL tests a good representation of what the tests are actually like?

Is it worth me purchasing one of those physcometric testing books to practice with?

Do they go into alot of detail on the motivation paper?

Any advice i would really appreciate.

Thankyou.:)

[Gemsound]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=265195

[Gonzo]

gastra,

Please don't think I'm being flippant with my answers, but please think about what I say.....

especially regarding the maths.Basically what im asking is whether its really hard?If I said it was easy, would you not practice? They might have been easy for me, but then I might be stunning at maths :E

Is it worth me purchasing one of those physcometric testing books to practice with?You're asking whether it is worth you practicing for a selection process for a job you're applying for?

Do they go into alot of detail on the motivation paper?I think you should have been told already that the majority of the motivation paper is based on the .pdf document you should have been given. If you read through the document, that's the level of detail of the questions. If you learn the document, then you'll know all the answers. It's that simple. And good practice for when you're at a unit as a trainee and have to learn a fancy document call the Manual of Air Traffic Services Part Two, which might have hundreds of pages. :zzz:

I know (I hope) I'm probably off the mark here, but the tone of your post seems like you're not too fussed if you get in or not.

[Clown Fish]

I did the stage two tests last week and was wondering what sort of time people have had the results in, as I havent yet.

Any ideas? (getting worried now)

Thanks

[gastra]

Hi there Gonzo,

Well that was not very helpful and yes you are way off the mark.

Just wanted some advice.

I am quite prepard to study VERY hard and i just wanted some information.

[EGMC]

Allo Gastra,

Firstly, the thread sandwiched 'tween yours n Gonzo's is a real useful one... just make sure you don’t click it again on your way to the end. Doh!

I mistakenly thought that the zeroth stage [application] was a thing I needed to work at... & take time over. It's just to filter those that meet requirements... That’s all [Oh, they will prob use it to reference Q's in third stage too]... But they don't count it as a 'stage', so you shouldn’t either!

...NOW the stages begin!

"...especially regarding the maths"
- depends if you have a degree in it, or you have avoided each other like an ex-girlfriend!


"Are the SHL tests a good representation..."
IMO NO, but if you can do the online SHL Q's you can do the NATS ones, the real bitch is the cube/nets... There are some aspects of the assessment that you can only do nout about!

"...purchasing one of those physcometric testing books..."
-No!..'Purchase', whadya mean PURCHASE!?- you cant afford to purchase things, go to good ol' library!... where you can also find other ATC intro booooks

"...detail on the motivation paper?"
-It's not really testing ATC knowledge. the aim as i understand it is to test how well you can learn.... so they give you summat that is sposed to be NEW to your brain and then test you on it. [it could have been based on anything, obviously there is a good advantage in making it an ATC intro booklet]

If you have SPECIFIC Q's I'm sure people would be more directly helpful, if not get me on the PM!

[I]CLOWN FISH:

Stage 2
3 days!... [drove home from CTC on a Friday PM, and got an email on Monday AM]

Stage 3
4days!... [Tube home on Wednesday PM, email on Sunday AM]

[gastra]

Hi EGMC,

Thanks for your advice...very helpful.

In fact the link is very helpful also...:)

Cheers

[dangerdanger]

speedbird1t

they should give you a pencil and an eraser for the cube test. Some of the people at my testing day drew the cubes on the eraser to work it out. However, it may slow you down and is dependant on you getting the pattern right. I found the easiest method is just to answer all the tests without relying on any tricks. Looking back though, had I known what was going to be in them I probably would have practised them a few times beforehand. Like IQ tests you tend to get better the more times you do them. Also, rather than 'getting passed' the tests you may develop some of the skills/mental dexterity they require.

Hope this helps

[kylofon]

Hello all,

I’ve been following this forum for a while now, and finally had a chance to apply for ATC training in Poland. The recruitment drive was halted for some time, during which the local NATS-like agency went through a major structural change and is now known as Polish Air Navigation Services Agency (PANSA). Now that all’s back to normal, I decided to take a plunge and sent in an application, though I’m well established in my other, non-aviation career. Passion or stupidity – you decide ;).

Anyhow, the recruitment process has changed a bit it seems, and I will try to share it with you as I go along. From what I’ve seen so far, the process in Poland is as follows:

On-line form with basic bio info, strengths/weaknesses, three situation descriptions that prove you’re fit for an ATC job and a problem solving “what would you do” exercise with three situation to choose from (You’re set for a meeting with a VIP and he doesn’t show up, You’ve got a deadline and can’t make the schedule, You’ve got a coach ticket, but your seat is taken). The last exercise has to be filed in English.
English test
Multi-stage ATC qualification test (no info on what they include)
Interview
Medical If you pass that, you’re hired as an intern-in-training, working from 7.30 to 15.30 for a period of six months, after which you’ll get the final decision. No word on pay. So I’m waiting for a call now – maybe that dream of working on EPWA TWR is not that far off ;).

[Speedbird1T]

dangerdanger
Thanks for your reply. I passed stage 1 last month and must admit I didn't find the cubes too bad in the end. I identified most of the correct answers without redrawing them. The spare paper can be used however you wish.
BAW1T

[lenny1974]

Hi guys,
Can anybody recommend a website or a book which will allow me to practice cube tests/spatial awareness? Have done the practice tests on SHL, which were fine but they only offer Numerical/Verbal reasoning, and by the sound of it, this is not what the 1st stage requires.
Thanks:)

[Gemsound]

Examples of the box part of the tests are at http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/radar2001/resources/spacialreasoning.htm. That said, they're only an example of the cubes, the real ones are slightly different. You'll get three or four 'flat' cubes, and 10 or so multiple choice questions on each.

Don't worry about the tests - just do your best and work as quickly and accurately as you can. You won't have enough time to finish most of the tests, so don't be disheartened by this. The only test you can really prepare for is the motivation test using the material you've been given.

PM me if you have any more specific questions. Good luck!

[Bra]

If your initial application is accepted, and they invite you to choose a testing date, how long have you got to choose?

Can you wait a few months and choose one? Or must you make a decision right away?

Ta

[Speedbird1T]

Hi Bra

I applied mid January, and my invite to stage 1 was emailed the next day. I was then given the choice of dates for the following 3 weeks. Due to a holiday commitment I had to delay my initial test and didn't sit stage 1 until 6 weeks after the initial invite. I was sent a reminder after 4 weeks to ask if I was still interested in NATS. Probably best not leave it too long. If you do need to delay, best speak with HR, they're ever so helpful ;-)

BAW1T

[howharvey]

hello, gettin close to my stage one in manchester, iv prepared with a few books for spatial, verbal and numerical reasoning etc. Also i have been reading the motivation paper over and over trying to prepare for the questions, but i was wondering if anyone could enlighten me as to the format of these motivation questions? will they be multiple choice? short essay questions? a mixture of both?
Many thanks
Harvey

[Speedbird1T]

All the questions are multiple choice, so no written answers required.

Best of luck.

BAW1T

[howharvey]

thanks for the quick reply BAW1T, much appreciated

[FlightDeckDave]

Hi, Does anyone know if any Stage 1 assessment days are being held in London in the next few weeks?

Many thanks,

Dave

[Irrilius]

Hi Folks,

I have my stage 1 soon as was wondering if anyone could answer a quick question regarding the motivation paper...

I have been studying the information that NATS sent out and feel i'm pretty sorted on most of it...except the final chapter on 'The Aircraft And Airlines That Use The System'. I'm doing my best to cram it all in but are NATS really going to test on the seating details, speed, crusing level etc. of specific aircraft? I guess they wouldn't bother sending it out if they didn't expect you to learn it, which is why i'm panicking :eek:

Thanks

[Irrilius]

Hi Dave,

I have my Stage 1 in London next week.

[ricmasters]

got stage 1 coming soon and would like to know same question as Irrilius,

will they be asking very much questions on the data of the airlines,speed,altitude etc cause theres a lot of info that needs memorizing

due to work I dont have as much time to study up that I'd like to

[classicwings]

From my previous experience, I recommend you dont go overboard with knowing all the aircraft data parrott fashion- the motivation paper will cover most of the areas of the document you were sent. If you want my advice then I'd get gelled up on the Spatial and Diagrammatic reasoning tests as this may well sort the men from the boys! (and women from the girls);)

[howharvey]

Me again
I dont know if anyone else has found this, but I've been practicing a lot of SHL numerical reasoning tests (full timed one on website and from an SHL produced workbook) and found that they all say you may use a calculator, and some of the questions are almost impossible to do in your head. Is this the case for stage 1?
Many Thanks
Harvey

[classicwings]

HowHarvey- The previous numerical reasoning tests NATS have set have all been a test of your mental arithmetic and are not similar to the SHL tests you are on about which i have done too- so Id take that as a no.

[NeoDude]

No numerical reasoning test at my stage 1, that was 2 months ago.

[howharvey]

neo dude: where did you do your selection tests? its odd that you didnt have verbal reasoning, I wonder if any anyone else had this?
Harvey

[classicwings]

I dont recall there ever being any verbal reasoning type questions when i sat them (twice)! Only thing you could be referring to is the Motivation Paper?

[NeoDude]

I went through stage 1 both last year and this year, both times in Glasgow. Last year there was a numerical reasoning test, this year there wasn't.

Tests that I took this year were...

Motivation Paper
Diagramming
Spatial Awareness
Basic Checking

And also a "learning styles" questionaire.

Last year there was also a personality questionaire that has now been changed to an online personality test should you be clever enough to pass stage 1.

This is why stage 1 is now only half a day. Last year it was a full day.

[classicwings]

It seems that NATS new school of thought for this 1st stage is to cut out all that HR c**p and get down to the nitty gritty bits pretty much from the word go in half the time!

[MancBoy]

Why is there tests at 0930 and tests at 1330 then?

[classicwings]

Mancboy- I was following on from the information given in the previous thread by NeoDude who sat the tests in Glasgow- 1 of 4 test centres im lead to believe.

[321now]

I applied in July 2006.

Got accepted first time to start in June 2007, I'll be on 212, Starting 25th June.

Anyway, my selection itinerary.

Stage 1 (full day) - Manchester

Motivation Paper
Diagramming
Spatial Awareness
Basic Checking
ATCO Chat
NATS Corporate DVD - (hehe!)
500+ Personality Questionnaire

Stage 2 (only guy there!) - NATS CTC Fareham

Computer Tests
Structured Interview (30 quickfire questions, no feedback)

Stage 3 (myself and 2 Scots) - NATS CTC Fareham

Introduction
Teamwork Exercise (bloody boardgame...)
Final Interview Assessment (uggh)
Secondary Personality Questionnaire + Results

End of Selection Process!

[ben-vrs]

Just to copy 321now slightly

I applied in February 2007 and will also be starting on 25th June.

My selection itinerary.

Stage 1 (half day - 7 of us, loads of others didnt turn up) - London

Motivation Paper
Diagramming
Spatial Awareness
Basic Checking
NATS Corporate DVD
Personality Questionnaire

Stage 2 (only guy there!) - NATS CTC Fareham

Computer Tests
HR Interview (60 quickfire questions, no feedback)

Stage 3 (myself and 2 others) - NATS CTC Fareham

Introduction
Teamwork Exercise
4 hour wait
Technical Interview

End of Selection Process!

[classicwings]

Has it seriously only taken you a mere 8 weeks from submitting your original NATS application to being offered a trainee ATCO position down at the college in Bournemouth ben-vrs?

Im most impressed!:ok:

[richyinnewcastle]

Your missing one thing.. the Medical!!

Don't do what I did and have a wobbler and get yourself a unrealistically high blood pressure reading.. thus having to go to my GP for the next 3 days to get a report done!

whoops :)

[ben-vrs]

was 7 weeks exactly from application to job offer :)

[higgy117]

Hi everyone!

I'm a student in Belfast and hope to apply to NATS when I graduate (July 07) Just want to say thanks for all the advice in the posts!! I'm in the middle of filling out the application form now, think I'm getting nervous already:( !!

Cheers!

Higgy:cool:

[rickypbrown]

Hey Higgy! Best of luck to you.

[Quincy M.E.]

Stage 1 (half day - 7 of us, loads of others didnt turn up) - London

7?! I think there were about 50 on my stage one!

[howharvey]

just to let anyone know, completed my stage one, was harder than i thought it but anyway it was exactly how neodude said it was:
Motivation Paper
Diagramming
Spatial Awareness
Basic Checking
Learning styles questionaire

NO verbal or numerical reasoning.....unfortunately. got my fingers crossed now for the next 3 weeks!

[grizedale]

Hi, I have recently completed stage 1 (this forum was very useful!) and was wondering for any advice on the HR interview part of stage2. As I have never had an HR interview before any help is welcome. I suppose more specifically, it would be helpful knowing how to prepare for it, such as are they technical questions or the standard 'why do you want this job?' type questions. Many thanks...

[g_davies24]

Thanks for the info.

I have just had my selection day today! Hopefully everything went ok. I will find out within the next 15 days.

The motivation paper, Spacial awareness (Cubes!), personality questionaire and data checking were all assessed.

[NeoDude]

Were you at the Marriot in Water Street g_davies24 ?

I was one of the 3 nervous looking guys in the corner who were doing their stage 3. Seemed to go pretty well. Just a waiting game now :ugh:

[timelapse]

grizedale, the stage 2 is pure HR - no technical questions at all. Expect a stone faced "thankyou" to each question and no discussion!

You'd do well to read up on standard HR question banks, there's plenty around
on the net, there'll be some ones you can't predict or expect though so don't be surprised if you get one that you hadn't even considered.

There's not much you can do for that interview in terms of preparation, just make sure you can think up situations that you've been in recently that show off your good points :)

PS: hope it goes well neodude ;)

[pamwheeler]

i have recently had my stage one tests and they have emailed me a personality questionnaire to do.. does this mean i am through? there was no indication in the email, do they judge you from this or invite you to interview anyway? cheers Pam :}


Jim! hey! how confused am i at the moment - good luck dude! i might not even make it by the sounds of it! :sad: gutted

[timelapse]

It means you passed stage 1, well done! However, the questionnaire in itself is a pass/fail thing so think carefully :)

[pamwheeler]

i didnt even understand half of it! haha! oh well i am who i am, so i cant even justify my answers to them.. great! lol! :ugh:

i wish i had known this before! i think i came across as not trusting anyone!! oops... :mad:

[smellysnelly2004]

Pam,
Overall it's better that you're honest anyway. It will become pretty difficult to hide your personality throught the interview process. First time I applied I thought about the questions and put what I thought they wanted to hear and then couldn't be consistent in the interview becasue I couldn't remember what I said. Failed the HR interview
2nd time around I was honest the whole way and got through - I can't be certain of why I failed first time but it's more than likely the honesty thing.
Good luck:ok:

[pamwheeler]

cheers mate - feeling a little better! fingers crossed! i want this so much :}


best of luck to jim and jerome too :}

[pamwheeler]

im through! stage 2 on May 21 at a comp centre in hampshire...

if anyone can help with the process i would much appreciate it!

:} yey!

[timelapse]

If you read back through all the pages of the thread you will learn lots and lots

[grizedale]

thanks for the help timelapse!

[NeoDude]

Had my stage 3 last Friday and just got a very welcomed phone call from NATS this morning. Well Chuffed :E Pencilled in for the Sept course assuming my medical is ok, which is something that worries more than any interviews :ugh:

I'm not the thinest pencil in the box and my peak flow is a tad on the low side. Hopefully stopping smoking and some hefty hill walking every day should help that to rise a bit. Fingers crossed.

[gastra]

HI Neodude,

Congratulations on getting through the NATS selecion process...i bet your over the moon!!

Well done :ok:

[ramesescolossos]

Hi NeoDude,
I think its you did both 2nd stage in Fareham and 3rd stage in Manchester with me, id go as far as to say im 98%, thats a big percentage.
I also got the call and was successful, only im starting in June as i dont have excuses like a family, so will be starting soon! Well done mate!

[steffi_kel]

Hey everyone :)
Just a quick question, when I went through the selection process about 2 and a half years ago, the second stage was a HR interview, computer test and technical interview.
Is this still the same???
I'm just finishing off my application 2nd time round!

[rickypbrown]

Steffy, have a look at the posts at the beginning of this thread...they should help! Good luck!

[ramesescolossos]

In case they dont, the second phase is Computer tests and a structured HR Interview, third stage is a group excercise, a HR Interview and a technical interview. Just do your revision and have fun :)

[steffi_kel]

Sounds harder! Eeek!
Thank you :)

[Marco001]

Hello all,

I have completed stage #1 of the interview process in London on the 26th April. I have just completed the personality questionaire on-line via SHL, I'm hoping I have a good one !!!!

I have no idea how I faired in the test, tried to be honest but still not easy. Fingers crossed I reach the next stage.........any info offered on the next stage of the process would be much appreciated.

Thanks:ok:

[stuartturrell]

I was at the 26th April tests too. I was in the PM session, had my ATC talk first, then the horrible tests after that.

Got my email through yesterday too, but i haev just come off night shift so i will relax todya and have a look at it tomorrow.

Hope to get through to stage 2, i am so far enjoying the selection process. :eek:

Stuart

[Irrilius]

I was also at the PM session on the 26th. Had the aptitude tests first so was relieved to get it over and done with. Was convinced I had messed up the Spatial Awareness section so very surprised and happy to be sent the personality questionaire. Heres hoping the personality fits!

Good luck to everyone currently going through the recruitment process.

[lenny1974]

Hi all,
I did the personality test online(:eek: awful!) on Wednesday, but there was no indication of how long it would take for results, does anybody know roughly how long this bit takes?
Thanks

[ramesescolossos]

It didnt take very long for me, i did it last month or maybe the month before, as i remember it was a few days

[milly1]

Hi NeoDude

This is my third and final attempt at joining NATS, and I have just been invited to stage3 of the recruitment process.:bored:

I am very nervous and desperate for this, and would welcome any pointers on the group exercise or interview.

Thanks

[NeoDude]

Hi Milly,

Really can't give you any more info other than what has already been given in this thread. Group exercise: Contribute, listen to other opinions, don't be bossy. Interview: Be yourself and be honest, visit somewhere, read up on ATC. Every interview is different. I think mines differed a great deal from what is usually described here so be prepared for anything.

Good luck.

[ShuttleSixYankee]

This is my third and final attempt at joining NATS, and I have just been invited to stage3 of the recruitment process.:bored:

Although people on here seem to say that 3 times is the limit, is this a fact?

It's just that after speaking to a number of ATCOs in person whilst at Swanwick, I heard some of them had gotten in on their 4th or 5th attempts.

[classicwings]

It's just that after speaking to a number of ATCOs in person whilst at Swanwick, I heard some of them had gotten in on their 4th or 5th attempts.

ShuttleSixYankee- Is that actually what you were told from those ATCOs at Swanwick?

If it is the case then I would be more than eagar to submit my FOURTH application for Trainee ATCO- Im feeling pretty gutted at the mo as I recently sat my stage 1 tests in London for the 3rd time and passed them- then completed the online personality questionairre about a week ago and was told I had not been invited to Stage 2- got a rather irritating email from HR telling me I'd failed the questionairre! Shocking and unbelievable after putting in so much time to pass those aptitude tests!

[Gonzo]

It's just that after speaking to a number of ATCOs in person whilst at Swanwick, I heard some of them had gotten in on their 4th or 5th attempts.

Hmmm, this is the first I've heard of that. Might be worth checking with HR first though.

[ShuttleSixYankee]

I was surprised when I heard it - and yes it was from Swanwick ATCOs, first hand. I spoke to at least two people who had gotten in on their fourth attempts.

[classicwings]

I'll be in touch with HR. I know they have recently extended the upper age limit for applicants up to 36 now (due to internal research into controllers ages or something like that) so the number of attempts in which one can apply may have also been revised. It was 3 attempts only for quite sometime.

Seems possible from what these Swanwick controllers have apparantly been saying. Worth a try!!

[Gonzo]

But for them to be valid ATCOs at LACC, they must have applied in 2003-2004, if not before. The most recent validations at LACC are mostly from course 126, which started in April 2003 (so applied in the six months leading up to that - when it was definitely only three attempts). Indeed, this time last year it was definitely three attempts. If there's been a change, and if there has then nobody has told those of us who interview, then it must be more recently than that, and nobody would have got through to validation that quickly. :confused:

[classicwings]

Im sure I'd be a fool to ask if you had more than one attempt at getting into NATS, hey Gonzo?!:E

Just out of interest, there was an article on our BBC London news in the week about ATC interference from Pirate Radio Stations broadcasting over London. They showed an internal of your new VCR at EGLL (looked a better view from the old one I visited....!) Is this becoming a real problem for you tower controllers or do you know if it is it affecting the ops. over at TC aswell?

[Gonzo]

Nope, certainly not a fool. :)

I got in first time. However, there were plenty of my coursemates who had two or three application attempts.

[ShuttleSixYankee]

Yep, they were validated LACC ATCOs, and as you say Gonzo, must have gotten through the college some years ago. No idea why or how the number of applications went through; I'm just passing on what the ATCOs told me.

[Warped Factor]

It's a few years ago now but I know of one former ATCA (as was back then) who took five or six attempts before being successful and who ended up as "Top Cadet" (as it was also known back then) and also successfully validated at LHR when it was both twr and app.

The moral being, if you want it badly enough don't give up. Keep trying and don't take no for an answer if at all possible.

Good luck.

WF.

[Gonzo]

I won't go into too much detail, as some legal action might still be pending, but yes, it does cause us a problem with interference. Not only on the VHF voice frequencies, either, recently we had a spate of pirate radio interference with ILS signals.

On the other matter, 'internal' NATS applicants (ATSAs etc) have sometimes been handled differently, and 'sponsored' by their own unit (as many non-NATS units do) after having a gained a few years experience. Some of those might have been unsuccessful applicants.

[grizedale]

I recently passed the online test and I received an email inviting me to stage 2, but then i got a phone call from HR asking if i would be prepared to do both stage 2 and 3 on the same day... and its only just over a week away, so lots to get learnt! Just a heads up to anyway who is about to do, or has just done their online personality test.

Its going to be a long day, but it gets it all over with at once - I also got the impression that the June start was quite empty which is why they were wanting to get the stages over with quickly, but that's just my interpretation and may not be correct. Hope this helps :)

[ramesescolossos]

It certainly sounds that way. They were very eager to get me on the June course, although with the amount of people who apply I would be surprised if they were ever short of candidates. I suppose its about finding the right people who will stick it out through college and further training, and succeed.

[MancBoy]

a lot of people who apply, like someone i know, don't finish college or uni till the summer so couldn't start in june

[NeoDude]

...or have a wife who is expecting twins in june ;-)

[rickypbrown]

Is everyone (course 212) impressed with how much time we've been given to learn this DLP! Thought it was going to be a last minute thing!

[timelapse]

me me me! (but you knew that anyway)

From what I hear they do need people on June still :)

[UKCchris]

Hi everyone,

I also did the stage 1 tests at the end of April and passed. I have since got a phonecall from HR asking if I can do stage 2 and 3 together and hopefully join with the June entry. I'm now getting as much information as I can into my head!! I don't think there's an awful lot I can do for the computer tests, I'll just be as prepared as I possibly can be for the 2 interviews. I'm actually looking forward to the big day (May 14th for me) and really hope beyond to all hope that I'll get in :)

The only thing I'm worried about is that if I do get in and expected to start in June then it won't give me a lot of time to organise accommodation and get all my stuff ready. But of course I'd much rather have that problem knowing that I had a place than not...

[jamayca5]

Hi there

I'm an italian air traffic controller, age 43.
I've applyed to NATS and I've been invited to the tests in London, for the end of May. Eventhought my age I've been admitted the same:cool: .

Someone of you can tell me if there will be an interview even in the 1st stage of the selection ?

tkssssss very much

[richyinnewcastle]

jamayca5.. There is no interview at stage 1, you just have to do the various aptitude tests including the multiple choice test based on the material you can find on the internet regarding ATC. In stage 2 you have a HR interview and in Stage 3 you will have a combined HR/ATC interview.

Goodluckage :ok:

p.s. scroll to earlier posts in this thread theres some good prep info in there for the tests.

[ricmasters]

got a email today it read

"Dear XXXXXXX

We confirm that your application has been withdrawn.

Yours sincerely


Recruitment & Selection
HR Services
NATS "

damn!!! looks like i didnt get through
anyone else failed

[ShuttleSixYankee]

Looks like that could have been sent in error.
The letter sounds like you have withdrawn your application.

[richyinnewcastle]

I'd agree, you should get in touch with HR and ask. I've been on the end of rejection and acceptance and they definitely don't look like that!

[smellysnelly2004]

I double what Richy says - I've had them both too and neither look anything like that.

[stjohnsmith]

I have my stage 1 interview in a few weeks time. I would be grateful if someone could answer 2 questions for me:
1. Is the motivational paper multiple choice?
2. Are the interviews with ATCs held on an individual basis?

Many thanks:)

[NeoDude]

1. Yes
2. Yes (This is stage 3 though)

[simfly]

Had stage 2 very recently, wasn't long before I heard the results..... On the train from Fareham to Gatwick and got a phone call telling me!!!!! Gotta go to Belfast for stage 3 though. One thing I would like to get more info on is the team excercises. Does anyone know if they are they looking for leadership abilities, team, both or something else???

[Gonzo]

Does anyone know if they are they looking for leadership abilities, team, both or something else???

A few questions, and please don't think I'm being facetious.

If you're a good team leader, but cannot work with others as equals or with someone else leading, would you think you'd be a good ATCO?

If you're good at taking orders and being told what to do but are not able to put your own view across, use your own initiative and instruct others who might look to you for leadership, would you think you'd be a good ATCO?

[simfly]

Gonzo, I know what you mean, thanks for the input. The reason I was asking is I have had leadership training from the RAF and wanted to make sure that it would fit in with what may be looked for in stage 3 whereby I can try and fit into both roles. I'm actually looking forward to it, surely nothing can mess with my head as much as the stage 2 computer tests (or can it :eek: ).

[Gonzo]

surely nothing can mess with my head as much as the stage 2 computer tests (or can it :eek: ).

Ahh, you see, now I want to interview you...... :E:ok:

[Lomon]

"Dear XXXXXXX

We confirm that your application has been withdrawn.

Yours sincerely


Recruitment & Selection
HR Services
NATS"

I got one of those once, it was a clerical error, as 2 minutes later I got another email asking me which dates I would like to attend the CTC

[Irrilius]

Hi Folks,

Is there anyone out there who has driven down to NATS CTC in Fareham for their interviews? Just wanted to know whether its straight forward to find, plenty of parking space etc?

Thanks

[milly1]

Hi,

Its easy enough to find. Soon as you get into Fareham, there's a large industrial estate on the left. You cant miss it. Its huge, and must have a good thousand parking spaces or so.

I had my stage2 down there two weeks ago. Got through thankfully. Quite nerve racking and they're actually giving out the results of the day immediately now. Apparently the June course is quite empty as is the september one.

The impression I got was that they just mark you on two things. computer tests and the motivation paper. Both out of about 30, and they give you the results of these about an hour later. The 30 question HR interview seemed to be just a general character check.

Usual questions
Why do you want to work for nats?
what skills do you need as a controller?
can you work well in a team? examples
can you work well under pressure? ex.
do you have good communicational skills? ex.
what do you think you'll be doing in 5 years time?

Hope thats of some help. I've got my stage3 in a week in Glasgow, so busy cramming in as much as possible now :uhoh:. Hope to see you on the course in september.

ps. If anybodies got any more tips on the group exercise, or the technical interview i'd be more than grateful. Cheers

[gastra]

Hi,

As Milly1 said its quite easy to find.The easiest way i found it was to plug the address onto AA route finder and that got me there without any problems.The bit you may find confusing is when you actually get into the industrial estate as there are many companies on that site.Just remember you are looking for building number 4000.There are loads of spaces but dont be surprised if you have to park on the road leading up to NATS as the car park is pretty rammed.
I was lucky and waited around the actual car park to see if anybody was leaving and found two very nice ladies that offered me their space....thanks girls.

The main reason for this post is to say that when i found out i had got through stage 2 last week, the lady said that they had not even marked my motivation paper yet.The results on the day that lead to me getting through and the three other candidates from not were purley down to the HR interview and the results on the computer tests.(You can fail the HR interview if they find you as not suitable!)
I found this quite strange as if i had not passed my motivation paper would that have meant i would go through anyway to stage three?


Who knows...all i know is i have made it to stage three and am very excited.

Good luck everybody who has some assessments looming :ok:

[Irrilius]

Thanks for the info guys. Got my stage 2 tomorrow. Think I've prepared as best I can for the interview and the motivation paper so nothing else I can do really except cross my fingers and hope it all works out.

Cheers

[steffi_kel]

Hey!
I've had an email asking me to go for 1st stage even though I've not finished filling in my application form yet! Wonder why they're so eager to get people through the tests??? Do a large number fail at first stage?
I'd have gone for the tests (either tomorrow or thurs) if I didn't have my 3rd year uni exams tomorrow and fri!
Any idea when next available dates are??? Long shot, I know but thought I'd ask!

[loumelon]

Stage three soon! Anyone got any tips on the technical interview? Does the assessment really last 8hrs?!:eek:

[Gonzo]

Tips? Be yourself.

No, you won't be being assessed for eight hours, but your interview might be the last one of the day, in which case you might be waiting for a while....

Good luck:ok:

[gastra]

Hi Guys,

Im a bit worried as i have been hunting high and low for my gcse certificates to show NATS and i cant find them anywhere.
Has people that have been through the process recently been actually asked for them?

Cheers for the reponse :confused:

[cottam approach]

Had to send mine to NATS after completing stage 3, so yes. Although they didn't specify GCSES, just exam certificates. Perhaps they are content with your highest qualifications, but I suspect they like to cross reference everything you put on your application form to see if you were fibbing.

[ShuttleSixYankee]

Gastra: A friend of mine had a similar problem when his University asked to view his GCSE certificates.

You can always contact your exam boards (AQA, OCR etc). They should be able to supply you with either a another copy (if you're lucky) or a valid transcript of your results. You'll likely have to pay for it but they're definitely possible to get hold of.

[gastra]

Thanks for that guys.That has put my mind at ease

[steffi_kel]

Final stage thursday :) anyone else going??!

[up the tower]

Steffi_kel, how did you manage to get to the final stage so quickly? Last week you couldn't make your stage 1 dates, now you have the final stage on Thursday. Things have really sped up! A couple of years ago there was nearly 18 months from application to college!!! Well done, and good luck:ok:

[steffi_kel]

Thanks up_the_tower :)
I managed to shuffle around some revision for uni and just went to the first stage after my uni exam (and travel from South Wales to Notts)! Personality questionnaire completed and application form finished off and I'm booked in for thurs! Last time I applied it took a lot longer, but that was almost 3 years ago and the process has changed since :S

[up the tower]

Hi Steffi, well if you get an interview question asking "are you able to manage your time?", I think you've got a good example there!:8

[gastra]

Anyone gonna be staying in the SAS Radisson on Tuesday 5th June in Belfast For the Final stage 3?

[simfly]

Gastra, i'm arriving on the Tuesday pm to do the stage 3 on the weds... Arriving at city airport from ABZ (sorry, EGPD!!).

[smellysnelly2004]

Gastra
I didn't have my certificates but got in contact with the Headmasters secretary at my old school and she wrote me a nice confirmation letter which did the job nicely:)

[FlightDeckDave]

Anyone know what the usual/average response time is to hear from NATS regarding the result of each stage. Did my stage 1 yesterday and although they say wait 15days from end of the week, im sure it was alot quicker than that last year when I went through selection?

[gastra]

Simfly, check your pms

[ak5294]

Hello, I've just done my first stage assessment day this week and am waiting to hear the result.
If I am fortunate enough to get through to the 2nd stage I was wondering how I might prepare for the 2nd stage.
I understand that they send you a motivational pdf similar to the one for the 1st stage. What type info does it contain, is it based on bits of MATS pt1/pt2?

I've got a copy of the abc of Air Traffic Control by Graham Duke, which I'm using to try to improve my understanding of ATC. I also have a copy of ATC career prep. P Mattson.
Are there any other books, or other sources, out there that might be worth having a look at.
There are a couple of books on Amazon: The Fundamentals of ATC, M Nolan and The Air Traffic System A commonsense guide, M Brenlove. Might either of these be worth investing in. They both seem to refer to ATC in the US.
Also I've got a few questions prompted by the abc of ATC graham duke book, such as at the time of printing it says that the dividing point between FIR and UIR will be changed to FL195, has this happened yet. Where can I find out the answers to these and others? Maybe I should be asking this last bit in a different part of the forum?

[MancBoy]

the dividing point between fir and uir is still fl245, the fl195 refers to the change to the introduction of class c airspace back in march of this year.

if you get asked that in any interviews then they are being seriously tough on you!

[jonesbigalow]

hello can someone tell me what format the motivational test are in
is it multiple choice or essay format not to sure tbh
ty for you time :)
Is this part of the test an hour long or shorter
ty

[jonesbigalow]

ahhh ok read first post and answer is there doh
sry for being a noob :uhoh:

[turkish_187]

Folks, I just discovered this tonight, on the eve of my 3rd and final stage. Good luck to all....

and hope to see you there, i will make a more detailed post after tomorrows events. Fingers crossed!!!!

[shipway]

Last Thursday I completed my Stage 1 tests, felt I did ok except for one paper, the dreaded cubes. Found that very difficult and its down to the lap of the gods how I've done with that however I think I did well on my other papers. Does anyone know how the papers are marked, is it an overall percentage or if you do crap on one and well on others you still fail.

However, today I have received an email asking me to complete personality questionnaire, does this give me any indication that I might have passed the tests ie, no point giving me questionnaire to do if I've failed the stage 1 tests. Just a bit nervous on how I've done any thoughts would be gratefully accepted.

Many thanks

[FlightDeckDave]

Shipway,

If you look further back in the thread it seems as if you only get the personality questionnaire sent to you if NATS were happy with your stage 1 results. However I think you can still fail the questionnaire bit depending on your results so its not a direct pass to stage 2. I did my questionnaire this afternoon and I am now waiting to hear back from that - if I fail at this point I would be pretty annoyed considering I did a similar test last year and got through it but hey you never know with these tests, in the past when i've done similar tests I always felt that I would answer differently if I was in a different mood, or thinking about a different situation!

Have you done the test yet, what did you or anyone else think of it? And does anyone know how much weighting is given to it over the other assesments from stage 1?

FDD

[steffi_kel]

NATS only ask you to do the questionnaire if you've been succesful in the initial tests and if you 'pass' the personality questionnaire then you'll be invited to stage 2 which is the structured HR interview basically making sure you weren't lying on the online questionnaire!

PM me any Q's, I got through stage 3 last week so still fresh in my mind... kinda!

:)

[shipway]

FDD & Steffi,

Many thanks for your responses!

I completed the tests last Thursday, found the motivation paper and basic checking fairly easy, as long as you’re quick at the basic checking. I then came to do the cubes!!!! That was difficult, I think its just one of the things you can either do or you can't, not something that’s easy to learn. I don't know how other people found it? I then completed a diagrammatic paper, which was about shapes in a sequence and following commands changing the sequence and orientation of the shapes. Found that ok although I didn't finish it as some questions took awhile to work through. Overall, I found the tests ok apart from the dreaded cubes. Now got to complete the personality questionnaire for which I’m a bit wary of as I believe you can fail it so very difficult on how to approach it whether you just be completely and utterly honest or attempt to answer what you think they are looking for.

I shall attempt to do it in the next couple of days

Cheers,

Tim

[smellysnelly2004]

Shipway,

The danger of giving them what you think they want to hear is that come your interview they will have a profile of you which you have to stick to otherwise you are toast!! I failed the HR bit first time around and have a pretty good idea that being economical with the truth on the personality paper was the major factor. 2nd time around I was completely honest and am currently about to finish basic at the College.

Good luck:p

[ak5294]

Just completed the online personality test. Am wondering roughly how long people are waiting to hear back from Nats, or Shl?
Also, am wondering about the possibility of visiting an ATC facility.
I live in London so West Drayton is probably my nearest option, although Swanwick probably isn't that far.
Would going to West Drayton give me a good idea of how an en-route centre like Swanwick would work, or are they completely different working environments?

[billy girl]

I was told I failed the second stage towards the end of last year. I got a call from HR a couple of weeks ago to say I only failed marginally and would I like to try again from the same stage so I'm now booked in again for 27th June. I assumed I'd failed the computer tests but apparently it was the structured interview so I'm not sure how I'll improve as I was honest last time!

Anyway, I've been to Swanwick a couple of times and am going to West Drayton tomorrow evening so I'll let you know how it compares when I get back home after the weekend!

:p

[Vic154]

I just heard today that haven't made it past the first stage and I, like many others I'm sure, am absolutely gutted. Now I have to wait a whole year.
I felt every part of the test went ok, and feel that I let myself down on the personality questionnaire as I analysed the questions too much when I should have just answered with my gut feeling.

Do you think that it's likely that I could have done well on the aptitude and motivation tests but been booted because of the personality questionnaire? I felt there was such a fine line between some of the questions, and I didn't want to give the "obvious answer". Big mistake I now know.

NATS don't give any feedback which we all know is really frustrating so I was wondering what other people who passed or failed thought of stage one, and how well they think they did. Maybe if someone who passed did something I didn't then that would be the feedback I need.

Also did people find they answered most of the questions, if time was running out did people guess? I was advised by friends who work at NATS beforehand not to do this, but to only answer the questions if you were fairly sure they were correct as the test is predominantly marked on accuracy. Therefore there were a lot of unanswered questions - I'm not sure now whether I should have done this and perhaps I should have just guessed the ones I skipped.

Apologies for the long post but it would be great to get an idea of how other people approached the tests and what they thought of them. To be exact on the Numerical test (matching the correct number) I answered 30 questions in section A and 31 in section B, on the diagramatic tests I answer 33 questions, and was confident in the accuracy of all of these.

Aaahh I just think I'd feel a lot better if I know where i went wrong!

Thanks everyone! Best of luck to all who have made it through.

Roll on 2008.......

[PaulM]

Bad luck,
IMHO there is an element of luck involved, you may only of missed the pass mark by 1 or 2 questions and on another day would have passed.

Firstly, regarding the personality questions.
I don't know how much weight is put on this or if you passed the other tests would 'failing' this eliminate you. However, my strategy was not to allow myself any thinking time, just answer straight away. As I recall, towards the end of the test there is questions that contradict earlier questions so you need to be careful of them. Also, if there was a question which I couldn't decide, I tried to think of it from a third party angle, i.e Q 'do you lead discussion when in a group ?' , A Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't, depends on subject I suppose. I though of how my friends would describe me and marked that box. It helped me.

Matching test:
I answerer all these within the time.

Spatial awareness:
I kept an eye on my watch and when I only had 5 minutes left I skimmed the rest of the questions and answered any I thought I could quickly, for the harder ones I tried to eliminate a couple of answers and increase my odds with an educated guess for each.

Motivation test:
Again, answered them all.

Maths test:
Similar to spatial.

I suppose overall, I answered the questions carefully and I hope accurately up to the 5 minute left mark, then sped up on the rest answering the ones I thought I could without much thought. Then guessing some if I got it down to a 50/50, then if time allowed think about the harder ones. I think I left 1 or 2 on the spatial, and answered all the rest. Thats not to say they were all correct, however, from reading previous posts I don't think they negatively mark(deduct for a wrong answer). I reckon there might be a cut off on the amount answered though, perhaps you must answer 75% of the questions...but I don't really know.

Anyway, If you answered about 30/40 ish of the questions, then next time you'll do a bit better because you know what to expect and the time restraints upon you, I am sure you'll be more relaxed aswell.

It's worth pointing out at this stage that I passed the tests last year so they may have changed the marking strategy by now.

I apologise to those who advocate the no guessing approach if you feel I have contradicted that. However I don't think I did, just explained how I did it, and that maybe some questions are suitable for an 'educated' guess and some certainly are not. If your time's running out and you don't think you've answered enough questions then IMHO you'd be as well having a guess at the easier ones.

I've went on a bit now...sorry.

Good luck next time.


P.S. I passed the test day last spring, failed the assessment centre(hr interview, atco interview, group exercise, another motivational paper)-this has all changed now aswell.
I received feedback(I think you can get feedback at the interview stage only) and was told that I marginally failed the hr interview only. 6 months later was asked if I wanted to resit it(without having to do everything else again) as it was a marginal fail. Of course, I did this and passed. How lucky is that...not having to do all the other stuff again.

Thanks to all you guys on here as you certainly helped me get through.:ok:

Look through previous posts and use the search facility and you will find all the answers to your questions and loads of other peoples opinions on the tests etc

[Irrilius]

Sorry to hear that Vic154. I could be wrong but in terms of the aptitude tests I dont think the pass mark is particularly high. I took and passed my stage 1 a couple of months ago but I remember thinking that I must have failed as I only managed to get through about half of the questions on each of the three sections. If you are confident in the accuracy of the 30ish questions that you answered for each section then you probably did enough to pass.

I know you can get booted out on the basis of your answers given on the online personality test that they set between the 1st and 2nd stage, so I imagine that they could also boot you out based on your answers from the stage 1 personality test. The idea that they can dismiss you this way without actually meeting you is crazy in my opinion but unfortunately this seems to be the case. I think they are probably testing your honesty more than anything else though so if you want my opinion for next time, answer the questions quickly with your gut instinct. As soon as you start pondering an answer, you start thinking about what you think they want to hear and thats when you start answering inconsistently and get caught out.

Good luck for next time!!

[Vic154]

Thanks for the posts guys, especially Paul, much appreciated. I spoke to a guy who's recently come through the course and told him a few of the answers I put for the personality test and he was like "why did you put that?!" so think that could have been it. I think going for your gut feeling is definitely the way to go for next year! 360 days to go....

If anyone else has done stage one recently it would be great if you also have some feedback from how their stage one went, good or bad. See my earlier post!

Cheers

Vic

[timelapse]

Vic - a friend of mine who was in the same position as you in March time (failed on the personality interview) last week got an email inviting him to re-apply because they were in need of applicants.

Based on that, your 360 days may be far less... :)

[kazzy01]

Just wondered if anyone can shed any light on what happened to me with NATS as I am still confused.

I attended a stage 2 interview at the beginning of April and then promptly went on holiday. While away I received the results, which consisted of one email telling me I had been successful and been invited to Stage 3. Then a second email telling me that I had been sent the first one in error.

Has this happened to anyone else ? I have emailed and left voicemails for NATS HR department since, but no-one has had the courtesy to explain to me what happened? Or even provide feedback about which part was the problem, the interview, the computer tests or motivation paper.

Thanks

[billy girl]

Hi,

This happend to me last year but the other way around. I was sent an email saying I hadn't passed the first stage and was then sent another straight away saying that the first was sent in error and I had passed. In my case, the second email was correct.

Hope that helps, though it might not be what you want to hear. :bored:

[shipway]

Last Friday I completed my personality questionnaire, having just logged on it says the stage of my application is under consideration; however I got the rejection email. I rung HR they said I failed on the personality questionnaire. How the hell can you refuse to give someone a chance in ATC based on those questions? It’s bewildering! It says at the start of the paper there are no right and wrong answers, that’s just rubbish. I don't believe anyone can base a decent profile of someone without even seeing them. They are struggling to find ATC officers, no wonder, when in my opinion they are refusing applicants who are more than able to do the job solely based on questions on that paper. Can anyone explain this crazy application process of refusing applicants who did well in the aptitude tests and somehow "failed" the personality questionnaire?
:mad:

[RO13ERTS]

Shipway,

I am no expert on this, but I believe that the questionnaires are in place in order to ascertain how you approach learning, problems, life etc. When I was going through the selection, it was the one thing that I wasn't worried about failing on. This wasn't because I knew I would pass, but, if I didn't it meant NATS thought I would have struggled as a controller and may have given up my career only to fail as one.

Try not to be to disheartened, as it is certainly not your intelligence that let you down on this occasion.

Regards,

RO13ERTS

[Gonzo]

shipway,

Psychometric testing features in many job selection procedures, the military, the Police force, I even heard in the news over the weekend that it is to be introduced as part of the driving test, and those who demonstrate a 'poor driving personality' will require more tuition before going through to the test itself.

I went through the NATS selection process in 1997. In recent years I have worked with our HR Recruitment team on a regular basis, with weekly contact with at least one of the team.

While up until a few years ago the psychometric 'testing' that was undertaken was not a pass/fail hurdle, it is now. The current tests are similar to those I sat ten years ago. Now, this is my own opinion, but it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that someone has sat down and collated all the data from the eight or more years of 'non-assessed' psychometric data, and cross referenced those results against the subsequent performance of each trainee ATCO. If trends were identified, for example if 'failures' tended to give a certain answer to certain questions, and successes tended to likewise give a certain answer to other certain questions, why shouldn't that data be used to determine selection?

[Yuop]

I wasn't enthused by the personality questionnaire either. I could have answered either way for plenty of questions, so those answers would have by no means been constants for my behaviour or my attitude. I definitely wouldn't want my ability to get through stages 2 and 3, and then the college, to be based on the answers to questions such as those.

[intherealworld]

Shipway,

There isn't a struggle to find people who WANT to be ATCO's there's a struggle to find suitable qualified people with the right temperament and aptitude who can go on to validate. I am no HR expert but personality plays a big part in becoming an ATCO at many stages. If you're serious about it, learn from it and prepare yourself ready for next time. Many people who are now valid were successful on 2nd and 3rd attempts.