NATS interview process

[CookiemonsterW]

What's the average ago of people starting to train as ATC's? Is 28 too old?!

Also, how do you find a contact to get in touch with Area Control Centre's for a visit? - impossible to find contact names!

[NeoDude]

31 here. Starting at the college in January.

[CookiemonsterW]

Hi NeoDude
What were you doing before you decided to train as ATC? Bit worried that is complete change of career for me if I get through. Feels like am potentially giving up good job and good salary in short term. Hopefully long term will be worth it.

[NeoDude]

I'm currently a very well paid Electronics Test Engineer but it's ultimately not what I want to do with my life. I want an aviation related career that I will enjoy (and will also fund my evil empire's plans to take over the world, *cue evil laugh*)

[Odi]

Started at CATC aged 33, I'm now 42 and loving every minute of it. Was the oldest on my course by some years.

[Gonzo]

Odi.....I'm confused.....I'm now 42

And yet your profile under your username says 41!!!!

Myself, I was 18 when I started at CATC, now 28.

[Ivor_Novello]

The only problem with starting a new career / life in older age is that NATS will not necessarily send you where you want to go.
It's easy to make new friends and start from scratch when you're 18, maybe not so easy once over 30.

Still worth a try though, especially if your current job doesn't give you satisfaction.

I don't think a half hour visit to the tower will tell you if this is the career for you. It took me 3 years in my current job to decide I wanted out of it (I loved it when I started).

I have aviation experience, several visits to Towers, Approach, ACC, and still don't know whether it's for me or not. But still gonna give it a try, you;ve got nothing to lose.... apart from your current job ;)

Ivor

[Odi]

Oh yeh, slight mistype there.

Maybe explains why I was banished to the Ice Station.........!!

(I am 41, honest!)

[tuftyfella]

Hi folks. i joined up to get some information on a possible visit to a local airport tower/ NATS center with regards becoming an ATCO.

So, would anyone be able to post / message me contact information for airports - Leeds + Bradford and Manchester, so i can organise a visit to help me decide if i want to apply to become an ATCO? i have tried searching the relevant airports home webpages but am unsure of which numbers to use to get in contact with them, with regards a visit...

would just like to say also that reading this thread has been a real insight into how the interview process works and is invaluable.

thanks for any help folks :)

[bencoder]

Had my stage 2 yesterday and got an email today informing me that I got through.

My stage 3 is on the 22nd, just over a week away, and I would really like to get in a visit to Swanwick or West Drayton or, preferably, both, before the next stage.

Could I get contact details for these places. I've managed to find an address for Swanwick, but I'm not sure if a letter would be fast enough, considering the short notice for stage 3.

thanks very much in advance

Ben

[atcowannabe]

I would suggest that contacting HR would be the best bet.

[Shamrock274]

bencoder

Check your PM on who to contact at Swanwick

Thats the email add of the person responsible for arranging visits (so i was told today) to Swanwick. WHen i phoned West Drayton, I was told they are not taking visits coz of preparations for the move

All the best mate

274

[bencoder]

Thanks very much EIN274,

Much appreciated,

Ben

[ManWithNoMouth]

Hi everyone, first post on here and this thread has been a very interesting read. It would have been useful finding it earlier but regardless it's been invaluable info, so many thanks to everyone that contributed!

I'm currently awaiting my stage 3 on the 22nd this month, this is my first attempt. Bencoder, I also had my stage 2 same day as you so I guess I'll see you there!

I just have 1 question about the stage 3 process, if anyone happens to know the answer. With the technical interview, will there be any questions outside the scope of the motivation documents provided at stage 1 and 2? Then if so, what "extra-curricular" info would you recommend reading?

[bencoder]

ManWithNoMouth, Hi, were you in the morning session or the 12:15 session? I was in the 12:15 session, just curious if I met you.

Have you looked at the tiscali site?

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/radar2001/resources/tech_interview.htm

This page in particular has information about the technical interview. Although the website is somewhat out of date, almost all the information on there has been relevant to the process I've been through, so I expect the process hasn't changed dramatically for the technical interview.

Ben

[watch_the_birdie]

Hello,

Just to say I had my stage 3 a few weeks back, and passed :)

For the question about technical questions within the interview, there was nothing asked that I felt was outside of the reading material you have been given. To be honest, I felt over prepared, and was a bit disappointed I wasn't asked more! But maybe they were being nice to me...the other girl I was with had a different interview pair, and she said she had a tough time :bored: yet she said that again, it was nothing out of the "knowledge" you should have from reading those booklets. I think they just asked her more questions than me!

Common sense is your best friend in the interview. Just think about what you are saying is sensible, and you can't really go wrong. I know I got some of the "technical" questions wrong, because they told me in the interview whilst I was doing it, but then you can save yourself by explaining your thought process for what you thought was the right answer...well that's what I did anyway. And I guess it worked.

All the best. Honestly, it's fine :)

[aerotech07]

I just have 1 question about the stage 3 process, if anyone happens to know the answer. With the technical interview, will there be any questions outside the scope of the motivation documents provided at stage 1 and 2? Then if so, what "extra-curricular" info would you recommend reading?

Don't get hung up on the term 'technical interview'. It sounds very daunting and formal, and I expected a right grilling. However in my experience it was fairly laid back and almost a pleasant experience. I was asked questions and opinions on sets of circumstances that you may be in; some ATC related, although there were a couple of general life situations as well.

Not all of the ATC questions were based on material from the motivational documents. However, a lot of it was common sense, and stuff that anyone with more than a passing interest in the job and aviation should know. I would say though, keeping the motivational paper stuff in mind is a good idea.

My advice, keep calm (I know how hard that sounds), make sure you do read the learning materials beforehand, and try to enjoy it! Don't be daunted as it will show on the day. Within five-ten minutes of the interview starting I had relaxed a lot and felt far better about it as a whole.

[ManWithNoMouth]

Thanks for the feedback guys, that's reassured me on that aspect. So it sounds like enthusiasm and some common sense will see you through. I'm quite looking forward to it now! It's exciting anyway being this close.

I did have that link bencoder, you're right it's very relevent and it's been useful - it just mentioned a couple of technical aspects that I wasn't aware of from the material so far. I guess there's no harm in doing some extra reading on those anyway. I was indeed in the morning interview that day so I will have missed you.

[q2663589]

Good Morning.
Is there anybody out there who can tell me if there are any stage 2 dates set for December and if so what these are?
Thank-you.

[JonG]

Surely if you've got through to stage 2 they will have given you the list of available dates to choose from?

[Gingerbread Man]

Is there a further section after the interview stage? I thought my most recent message from NATS mentioned an assessment day after the interview, but maybe I got confused. I just hadn't read anything about that on here is all. I will read it again...

Ginger ;)

(Also, jumping the gun by a considerable margin, but if I were to be successful, would I have to redo the Class 1, or is it enough that I already hold one?)

[simfly]

Ginger,

I had a JAA class 1 medical, but still had to do a UK class 1 before starting at Hurn. A lot of the JAA 1 counted but still had to go through the motions anyway....

[Gonzo]

The NATS initial medical is slightly different to the UK CAA Class 1, so you'll still have to do one.

[Gingerbread Man]

Oh dear, woe is me and so forth :ugh:

I'm an optimistic guy, but my assessment at Fareham today was not good (Stage 2??). Firstly I was sure I was told there would be two interviews, so I was prepared for a normal interview and a personality-type one. As it turns out, I just had the latter, so a lot of my preparation was unnecessary. I found the 'giving examples' a bit exhausting as it was really hard to think of responses in a few cases, despite knowing that I had plently to call on somewhere in my memory.

Worse though, were the electronic tests. I have done plenty of electronic aptitude tests, so wasn't particularly worried about them, but christ I found these tough. Stopping numbers colliding while doing sums was the worst - I barely answered any of the maths questions as I could not read the question, do the arithmetic and respond before the question disappeared again. I wondered if these were solely to try and distract you from the 'aircraft', but probably not. Also, sorting numbers and then having to factor extra instructions was so hard to do in the time allowed. Adding the digits together, seeing if it was a match and remembering the right category was almost too much for the 3 seconds or so given.

So it seems maybe my brain is not that of an ATCO, unless i've been really lucky. Damnnation to my grey matter, and good luck to everyone else in the process. I'm sure you'll fair better.

Ginger ;)

[timelapse]

If it's any help - after my stage 2 I felt exactly the same, that I had exactly no hope of getting through it. I then found out that I'd done really well at them later on, so don't panic.

Also you might just find that the 3rd electronic test (sums while stopping colliding) isn't actually looked at...

[Gingerbread Man]

Well those are comforting words - thank you. I'll just have to wait and see...

Ginger ;)



P.S. I don't want to lower the tone, but a further distraction during the test was that the desk area outside was populated by a silly percentage of absolutely beautiful girls/women! I could feel my neck straining against my better judgement.

[NeoDude]

lol. Nice.

I felt the same after the computer tests. I reckon that they are designed to stress you out and that the only way to pass is not to give up. Probably testing that you won't throw your headset away in disgust and lose the plot should your sector get a bit busy.

[Gonzo]

I don't want to lower the tone, but a further distraction during the test was that the desk area outside was populated by a silly percentage of absolutely beautiful girls/women! I could feel my neck straining against my better judgement.

You sure you were in CTC? At Fareham??????? :confused:



I'm joking ladies! :E

[watch_the_birdie]

Maybe the girls are put there to distract you :P But being a girl myself, I didn't find that a problem...

Yes, I felt completely crap after the tests, and then found out that actually I had done "really well", and later found out in my 3rd round interview that I got the same scores as the Air Traffic Controller interviewing me got. So it can't have been all that bad...(I asked what the scores meant, but they didn't have a clue)

Good Luck

[Speedbird1T]

I too felt thoroughly depressed after the stage 2 computer tests. I felt my 'big chance' had come to an end. I can't have performed that badly as I'm not a TATC at Hurn. There is light at the end of the tunnel even though you feel all hope is lost.

BAW1T

[q2663589]

Was anyone else at the stage 1 tests last Thursday at Marble Arch?
If so have you heard anything back yet?

[uearichard]

Hi all,

I've been reading this thread with interest over the past few weeks as I've worked my way through the ATCO application process. I had my Stage 2 in Fareham this morning and already have an email confirming my progression to Stage 3. All good so far...

Anyway, I would really like to try and arrange a visit to a NATS facility before I go to the interview. Unfortunately being 'stranded' in Norwich means a drive to either Swanwick or Preswick for a visit isn't very viable just for a visit. So I thought of trying to arrange a visit to either Stansted or Heathrow tower to at least get a taste for the job.

Is this viable? If anyone could push some contact details my way I'd be much obliged...I can't seem to find much on the net.

Cheers!

[chaudhrysahab]

Hi everybody, :ok:

i have booked my 1st stage test on 11 dec 2007 in glasgow, and i am preparing for that test.
I am bit confused :ugh: about the Arthimetic Numerical Reasoning test, With Spatial Reasoning Incl design & Shapes test, do i need to prepare for Arthimetic numerical test as well or NOT???

Pleae help me because i have not enough time to prepare. the contents of the test which i know are,

1. Apptitude test (Shapes design, basic checking, 3d conversion)

2.Motivation test

3. Personality questionair

is there any thing else??? :cool:

[atcowannabe]

Hey all, just wanted to let you all know I have got my email confirming that I have been succesful at the 3rd stage, so assuming I pass the medical and security I will be going back to college in the summer! I am well chuffed! :)

Just wanted to say a big thank you to all on this thread as you all have been real helpful. :D

Not sure whether going to be invited to June or Septmeber intake yet - anyone else confirmed for next June or September?

[watch_the_birdie]

I have no idea what intake they are thinking I am going for - I've heard mumblings of June...

I had my medical last week which was all good, I think they are now just getting references and stuff, haven't really heard much recently.

[timhan0]

Seconding chaudhrysahabs post (2 above) what tests do the Stage 1 comprise of now?

I always understood they were structured as a motivation test, personality questionnaire and the aptitude tests being spacial reasoning, basic checking, diagrammatical and mental arithmatic + several others :confused:

Have they changed as chaudhrysahab mentions above?

[NeoDude]

No mental arithmatic when I was there in April.

[aerotech07]

I always understood they were structured as a motivation test, personality questionnaire and the aptitude tests being spacial reasoning, basic checking, diagrammatical

As neodude said that list is correct, or was when I went in May. There is no specific mental arithmatic test, but that doesn't mean you won't need to brush up the mental arithmetic for use in the other tests :ok:

[Vic154]

I did stage one in June and didnt get through :sad: but when I did it it was just the motivation test which is a multiple choice based on the info they send you so make sure you learn it well. Then the personality questionnaire which is fairly straightforward. Then it's the aptitude tests which include basic checking, diagrammatic and spatial reasoning. Diagrammatic is when they show you shapes that mean different things and you have to say what comes next in the sequence, I found that quite easy, then it's the cubes which is by far the hardest bit of the tests. That was it.

Hope you both have more luck than I did. I'm counting down the days til June so I can reapply again. Has anyone known HR to let you reapply before the 12 months is up??!! I'm determined to pass second time!!

Congrats atcowannabe, I hope I'm in your position this time next year!

Vic

[yeray]

Hi all,

I will have my first interview next Moday. I feel prepared but there are a few pages at the back of the "motivation" material about aircraft specific configuration.

Are those last pages worth of studying or should it be enough with a rough read?

Many thanks

[atcowannabe]

It is definately important to study the information about the aircraft provided in the motivation document. There is no need to know all of that information off by heart but a general understanding of the aircraft that are in use, the airlines that use them, the routes they are likely to fly, their speed etc will definately be of use.

At the end of the day you should expect to be questioned on any of the material that has been provided.

Good luck on Monday!

[yeray]

Many thanks Atcowannabe,

Regarding the diagramming test. I've seen so far two main types:

The ones that you need to follow a pattern given: 1,3,5,7...11

Or the ones with "operators": "x" changes colour, "Y" changes shape, etc...

Could you kindly advise on which type will be given on the assessment day?

I'm going through the Internet like mad doing as many tests as I can and this advise will save me some precious time.

Again, many thanks. Really appreciated.

Regards

Yeray

[atcowannabe]

To be honest with you I am not sure that practice will make you any better at these kind of tests but that is a whole other subject!

I believe that the two tests that you have mentioned will be included along with a test that will involve you visualising a cube that is laid out flat and what sides will touch etc.

If I remember rightly there are examples of these tests sent along with the motivation paper?

Again though, in my view I dont think that practicing these will help you out that much, I dont think there is really much you can do to prepare for these tests apart from getting a good nights sleep etc. I would suggest you concentrate on the content from the motivation paper.

[stu_h]

Re the motivation paper, the technical details at the end can come up.

I had three on my paper (sept 07):
'Of the following, which has the highest theoretical cruise',
'what would the typical cruise speed be of X type'.
'What route would you expect a 737-300 to fly'

I didn't have any on seating config, but I dare say there's ones like 'approximately how many passengers can X type carry' out there somewhere.

The good thing was the answers were obvious if you thought about it, but knowing the details helped save time to spend on the lovely :uhoh: DST questions.

Stu

[atcowannabe]

I would definitely recommend being comfortable with the DST triangle/calculations ;)

[goperations]

Hi,
So just to confirm for Stage 1, the tests are:

1. Personality
2. Rotating Cubes (Cubes and there nets)
3. Basic Checking (checking 2 sets of numbers)
4. NATS Motivation (questions based on the document NATS provided)
5. Commands (Invert previous image, swap with next image etc...)

I applied last year but from what I can gather, a few things have changed in the recruitment process.
Thanks in advance.
G

[Gonzo]

First test is actually turning up in the right place on the right day.

You may laugh, but................:ugh:

[SilentHandover]

A test which the SHL and NATS staff failed on more than one occasion!
Once they forgot to bring the testing papers and on another they had put the ATCO up in the wrong hotel the night before.

[Gonzo]

True, although more often than not it's the courier or the hotel who manages to lose the test papers.

I've often been put up in a different hotel than the one that's hosting the test/interviews, but that's usually because there is 'no room at the inn'.

[Gingerbread Man]

Was anyone at Stage 3 at Manchester last Friday? I was just interested to know if you'd heard anything yet?

P.S. I've probably said it before, but this thread has been most helpful - keep up the good work, and thanks!

Ginger ;)

[ManWithNoMouth]

I'm incredibly disappointed and frustrated with NATS right now. It's been 2 weeks since my stage 3 interview, which personally I thought went very well and I had no inkling of any reason why I didn't deserve to get through.

Last Tuesday I received an automated message informing me I was unsuccessful. Nothing more than that. Apart from being absolutely gutted I was very disappointed that the assessors went back on their word to get back to me with feedback (I even had to chase down the expense form).

I've phoned HR and I've e-mailed via the NATS job interview site and both have told me they've passed the message on and that I'll get a call soon.

It's been long enough in my opinion. I'm still in limbo with the option to reapply in 12 months, which will be utterly pointless without knowing what I need to improve on. Someone out there has the information I need and I can't get it. Has anyone else had this problem or got any tips for actually getting the info I need before it's too late?

[Gonzo]

Please bear in mind that both the interviewers have 'day jobs', and certainly in the ATCO's case, and possibly the HR interviewer's also, they work shifts. It would be completely out of the question to attempt to contact you outside of office hours, and ATCOs only have a limited period of time during those hours at work; for most of those we'll all be wearing headsets. Also, one or the other might be on days off, or on leave, and in my experience whichever of the two is going to give feedback will contact the other interviewer to discuss things before talking to you, to ensure everything is covered.

Things will have been set in motion by your request, I assure you. Please be patient.

[ManWithNoMouth]

Thanks Gonzo. I can appreciate that, it's why I waited a while before venting. Obviously my heart is absolutely set on this, so I want to know what's wrong as soon as possible. To be honest though, I would rather have sat here waiting for 2 weeks wondering whether I'm in or not, than sat here having been rejected not knowing why. I've been through a lot just to end up with 1 automated e-mail, not even a phone call. My particular assessor worked in training rather than in the control room full time so I had hoped the shift pattern etc wouldn't be as big an issue.

I think it would have been most helpful to at least have some basis for the grounds on which I was rejected given to me at the point the e-mail was sent, then more detailed feedback at a later point.

[smellysnelly2004]

MWNM,

When I failed my interview first time round I received a similar response and on contacting HR was simply informed 'We don't give feedback', After something bordering on harassment by myself I managed to find out which part of the interview (personnel, comptuter etc) I failed but that was it.
I would suggest that if you are going to receive any kind of detailed feedback then that is a vast improvement in the process, even if it takes a while:)
On a more positive note, there are plenty of people at the college who passed second time (including me). Also, if you're willing to put your 'career' on hold for 12 months and try again, that can only look good for you in the motivation stakes for next time.
Good luck

[CookiemonsterW]

So can anyone clarify what is required for Stage 3 - technical & HR interview + groups exercise right please? Any handy hints for the technical interview? I hear you'd be wise to research outside of the given reading material - even beyond a visit to a NATS site?

[Gonzo]

I hear you'd be wise to research outside of the given reading material

Just an FYI, but there is no 'given reading material' for stage 3.

[watch_the_birdie]

So can anyone clarify what is required for Stage 3 - technical & HR interview + groups exercise right please? Any handy hints for the technical interview? I hear you'd be wise to research outside of the given reading material - even beyond a visit to a NATS site?See this is where I begin to think threads like this are a hindrance rather than help. Before my stage 3 interview I read this thread and began to freak out when I saw all this "extra reading" people had done and all these facts they thought they should know.

Truth of the matter is, I've passed first time without freaking out, and I can honestly say I have simply read the material given for stage 1 and 2, and had a delve around the NATS website to get latest news, names of important people, etc

Ok, I've had a background with being in the air cadets and numerous RAF tower visits, but that's hardly major "experience". Yes my father's best mate from school joined NATS in 1963, but apart from having a few chats with him and his colleagues, that's about as much contact I've had with NATS people.

Trying to cram your head full of Air traffic jargon and facts and figures before you've actually been to college to learn what the hell you're trying to talk about, seems a bit silly to me - you're only going to confuse yourself in the interview and probably get yourself into a hole you can't get out of. Just my opinion though!

The only advice that I can give (which I was given myself), is re-read the two reading booklets you got, look at the NATS website a bit, look into current affairs - they are always a good talking point, especially air traffic/air travel related stuff. And think long and hard about what you have achieved at school, college, work, with your hobbies, whatever.....situations you have been in working with teams, difficult people, times you have failed, problems overcome....even the smallest of thing you can think of can be an amazing demonstration of problem solving or whatever.

All I can say is, know "the gist and a little bit more" about air traffic. As far as I could tell, they are looking for POTENTIAL to pass well at the college, not a pretend know-it-all bluffer already.

All the best. Hope that helps.

[DCR100]

Anyone at the stage one at Tower Bridge Hilton yesterday am(10th dec)? Ran about an hour late. There were two controllers present; the talk by "Steve" was great. Anyone else think the guy overseeing the motivation/psychology test was, well...an arsehole?? (No he wasn't an ATCO, in fact most of the people there were all "HR".)

ps, these boards are great:)

[Gonzo]

DCR100. At stage one, the only NATS people there are the ATCOs. Everyone else is from an outsourced recruitment and consultancy firm.

No doubt though you've told NATS Recruitment about the feedback you wish to give........haven't you?

[luke_flyporker]

In reply to ManWithNoMouth a few posts back, I failed my second stage interview at the second attempt last week and emailed via the message centre on the nats website to see if i could get my scores at least (i know detailed feedback won't happen), and within 12 hours received a reply telling me that i passed the computer tests but failed the interview. It said the interview was a marginal fail so shouldn't be put off applying again.

I knew as soon as I had finished the tests that I had passed those but was not sure about the interview, and when I got my unsuccessful email thought i must have completely f:mad:ed up the interview, but I feel reassured that i obviously didn't do as badly as i had thought.

Anyway, hope you get the answers you are looking for and all the best for the future........:ok:

[CookiemonsterW]

Hey watch_the_birdie,

Wasn't meant to be hindrance, think it is reassuring for lots of people out there to find out that perhaps "all this "extra reading" people had done and all these facts they thought they should know" isn't as daunting as they might have first thought. But the question needs to be asked to find out the truth about these things!

[Gonzo]

As an interviewer, I'm consistently disappointed by the most common answer to my first question: "What have you done to prepare for today?"

".....Errrr, well, I had another look through the documents for stage 1 and stage 2..........errrr, and then I had a look at NATS website for a bit.........."

:ugh:

[NeoDude]

^^^ That was the first question asked at my Stage 3 :ok:

[MancLad993]

Did you any stage 3's in Manchester last Jan, Gonzo

And is this where you loiter NeoDude

[watch_the_birdie]

As an interviewer, I'm consistently disappointed by the most common answer to my first question: "What have you done to prepare for today?"

".....Errrr, well, I had another look through the documents for stage 1 and stage 2..........errrr, and then I had a look at NATS website for a bit.........."Hmm ok, maybe I am not entirely writing my advice correctly. Not to sound too big for my boots and all that, and also not to sound like I did no preparation at all (because I did).... but the prep I mainly did was talk to air traffic people (both civvi (NATS and otherwise) and RAF), and read into things.

As a past interviewer myself for army entrance for various levels, I used to hate it when people came in with what they thought were the right facts and figures about things, and their ideas about whatever, when really they were completely wrong and ended up making a tit of themselves.

Yes, read into things, but not to the extent of being chock-a-block full of unneeded crap? Surely talking to people in the know (i.e. visits) is far more worthy than reading reels of text? If you can't make a visit, yes, reading is a good substitute, but surely there is a limit before it becomes all too much?

wtb

Or am I barking up the wrong tree.

[NeoDude]

And is this where you loiter NeoDude
Shouldn't you be studying or something? :}

[Gonzo]

MancLad,

Sorry, my first interview day in Manchester was only last month.

WTB, My post wasn't aimed at you. You appear to have done exactly the sort of thing to prove to me that you had prepared adequately. You obviously had done research about the job.:ok:

[DCR100]

Gonzo,

No, I didn't tell anyone about the HR guy, as the chap was rather large :} He really seemed unbothered, more pissed off, that we had turned up at all. Nothing personal with me, but he was a bit rude to some other people.
You weren't the ATCO chap giving the talk, were you? Great guy, also very funny. "You need to pass the medical, because passing out at the radar is frowned upon", haha. The biscuits were also very nice. :) No video though:sad:
Bring on stage 2 and 3.

[yeray]

DCR100,

Did you get an answer already? :ooh:

[Gonzo]

DCR100,

You weren't the ATCO chap giving the talk, were you? Great guy, also very funny.

I might as well get in early before my so called colleagues do so:............You obviously don't know me! :}

Nope, it wasn't me.

If I were you I'd pass on the feedback about that guy, such feedback has had results in the past.

[MancLad993]

Shouldn't you be studying or something? :}

wish there was something to study for!!:confused:

[DCR100]

yeray

No reply yet, so don't worry. I know the motivation papers were marked on the day, as when I handed in my psyche answer paper ( I was one of the last out), I could see the guy overseeing had put the results in the top of the motivation paper answer sheets (I know one chap, whose name begins with an A and ends with D, got 15/30. I don't think that's enough to pass?) And again, I didn't want to complain about that guy because he was the one marking those papers! I will relay that guy's attitude later on though...Anyway, good luck dude.

[Vic154]

Is that true then that all the papers marked there on the day? I thought they'd be taken away and fed into a computer somewhere.

So I guess if the controller didnt like the look of ya then they could fail you there and then?

[watch_the_birdie]

No, he was talking about the motivation paper which was the multi choice thing about aircraft and VORs and runways and stuff. They easy to mark there and then I guess.

The computer-marked papers are those 3 tests of numerical checking, the code thing and the cubes. So they get sent away with the company that runs them. :)

[Gonzo]

They are all marked on the day, but nobody there knows the pass mark, so the results get sent back to HQ.

So I guess if the controller didnt like the look of ya then they could fail you there and then?

I really, really hope that was a joke.

[Vic154]

Not really a joke no Gonzo. For example at my stage one a chap was half an hour late, and kept phoning up every five minutes for directions. He couldn't find The Cumberland Hotel even though it's right outside the tube station. Then when he finally turned up he was dressed in a tracksuit, didn't apologise and clearly didn't care or make an effort. Surely not a good sign and I'm sure the ATCO there would have been doubting his credentials despite how early in the selection process it was. Also after the personality test a chap stayed behind a further 20 minutes or so after the last person had finished and we were all sat outside waiting. I would think that personality traits such as these would be noted by the ATCOs, but probably not accounted for I don't know, just wondering.

[Gonzo]

As far as NATS is concerned at that point you're just a number. As much as sometimes one might wish to take into account 'other factors', I'm afraid we are professional about these things (dammit!):O. At the end of the day, not doing so would leave NATS open to all sorts of claims and appeals.

Not attempting to explain things, but I do know the Cumberland used to have the wrong directions on their website....and also you should see the Ops room on a typical day at Swanwick. Scruffy jeans, hoodies, all sorts. Some of us do attempt to make an effort, sartorially speaking, but I'm afraid many of my colleagues are a lost cause in that regard!

[chaudhrysahab]

:rolleyes: Anybody recieved result for the 1st stage test in glasgow 11 dec 2007 ??
Anybody knows what was the overall score ??? :confused:

[tomharrison]

:rolleyes: Anybody recieved result for the 1st stage test in glasgow 11 dec 2007 ??
Anybody knows what was the overall score ??? :confused:Received an email from NATS on Friday inviting me to take the personality questionnaire - so I guess I got through the stage one tests. I hope the personality questionnaire is just as successful :eek:.

Not sure on the overall score. You'd probably have to ask HR but they may not be able to give it to you.

[chaudhrysahab]

I Been simply told by NATS that i am unsucessfull :sad: on 1st stage and not been given any feedback as well which is unfair. :{

[chaudhrysahab]

Anyone knows websites which provides more information about Spatial Reasoning Test ???? apart from www.shl.com (http://www.shl.com) or http://www.psychometric-success.com/ .

Any other site ??? plz help. :rolleyes:

[anotherthing]

check your pm's

[yeray]

You are not the only one chaudhrysahab,:(

Any use of chasing for a feed back? Or they do not provide feed back for 1 Stage applicants?

Regards

[chaudhrysahab]

What PM's ??? :(

[chaudhrysahab]

Yes, today on 17-12-07 they given me some feedback, i scored 55 in basic checking and requred was 65 where i failed. :{
Rest was passed.
They also told me that the scoring was overall not with any specific section for passing the test so it means you mus have to get atleast 65 marks on each section to pass the exam but still thats my opinion so it is not compulsry it may be right...!

[tomharrison]

Had an email from NATS HR this afternoon and I failed on the damn personality questionnaire :ugh:. I know they say they don't give feedback but there must be some sort of an indication of where I tripped up surely? They say to be 100% honest in your answers but there must be something else to it. If not then presumably I'd fail the personality questionnaire every time I took it.

May give HR a call tomorrow to see if I can gather any information. I'd rather be told that I didn't get through the aptitude tests since at least then you have a rough idea of where to brush up, but I'm completely lost as to what I should do about this questionnaire :confused:.

Let's hope I can reapply in 12 months and be more successful then.

[Gonzo]

They say to be 100% honest in your answers but there must be something else to it. If not then presumably I'd fail the personality questionnaire every time I took it.

To be blunt, yes. I'm sorry that you didn't succeed, but there'd be no point in a personality testing stage if it wasn't consistent.

but I'm completely lost as to what I should do about this questionnaire :confused:.

I'm afraid there's not much you can do. If you retake it, and put down what you think we want to see, then you will get found out.

[aerotech07]

They say to be 100% honest in your answers but there must be something else to it. If not then presumably I'd fail the personality questionnaire every time I took it.

To add to what Gonzo said, I followed everyones advice here and answered it 100% honestly. Through the test there was so much temptation to click what you think they want from you; but I did remain honest. At times I was almost cringeing when clicking the answer, "this is going to make me look really really bad". But I did get through, so the honesty thing its the best advice.

Sorry you didn't pass, it must be so frustrating knowing it was on the personality questionnaire.

[watch_the_birdie]

Yep, the personality questionnaires are all to do with correlation. I think over the whole process you do about 4 or 5, normally all asking similar things, just worded differently. If you answer one question with one answer, and then another similar question with a completely different answer, then this will flag up as an inconsistency. One or two inconsistencies are fine, but a lot will flag up something to HR.

In fact, I apparently had some inconsistencies, and they actually asked me straight out in the stage 3 interview about it, so obviously it wasn't bad enough to fail me there and then, but still serious enough to question me about it. I explained myself (it was something about "do I look to the future" or something) and I found it much easier talking myself than picking a multi choice answer.

So answer honestly, yes, and you should be fine as all your answers will usually match....The worst you can do is think what they want, because it really doesn't work like that. Me and this other girl put completely opposite answers to one another, and we both got through. I think there's a great emphasis on consistency, rather than actual answer.

(Though obviously, if you answer things like "no I never exercise", "I like sitting on my bum all day every day eating pies", "I don't like working" and "I hate talking to people", then that ain't going to help. But in all honestly, I guess those personalities don't generally try to join NATS as ATCOs, or do they?!)

[tomharrison]

Thanks for all the advice folks. I think my best option is to try again in 12 months and simply give the questionnaire another go, with a 100% honest approach should I get to that stage again.

Mixmastermike, I was referring to the "Occupational Personality Questionnaire". There was a "Learning Styles" questionnaire on the test day, however I was led to believe that it was not assessed. I may be wrong, but I don't believe the responses on the OPQ had to correlate to the learning styles questionnaire, however I suppose with full honesty they should!

Thanks again folks :).

EDIT: Looks like the questionnaire responses are correlated - thanks for the info.

[Vic154]

I'd be interested to know as well info on spatial reasoning tests. I'd like a practice book of the cubes but can't seem to find one :sad: I can find aptitude books with a couple of examples but nothing specific to it.

[anotherthing]

Chaudhrysahab

Your private messages - top right of this page.

Vic154 - check yours too

[chaudhrysahab]

65 percent for basic checking only..... not sure for any other!:rolleyes:

[timhan0]

On a different note, within the application form (I'm quite behind most of you above me!) do HR take much notice of the detail you write such as 'why did you apply' etc. I don't want to waste time if its not necessary and will say it if I get to interview anyway?

[chaudhrysahab]

thanks for help........ :)

[SACrIGGER]

timhan0,

I don't want to waste time if its not necessary and will say it if I get to interview anyway?

You should make every effort to put in 100% where you can.

If you are successful and get to the college, 100% effort is required 100% of the time.

Just ask the many people who get chopped from various courses.

Good luck with the rest of your application.

[CJayne]

Hello everyone!

I've just completed the online personality questionnaire after passing the 1st stage tests...am I right in thinking this part needs to be passed before you are invited to the 2nd stage? It would make total sense if that is the case. I gave my honest answers but took awhile to do so - some questions I found really hard to answer when there was not much difference between what I felt least/most about myself.

Must say this thread has been most helpful. I want to prepare as much as I can as haven't been in a interview environment for something this important for a long time so it's great to see the hints and tips - thanks guys and gals! - fingers crossed it comes in useful if I pass this personality questionnaire.

Just wanted to add a little something to tomharrison (sp?) about not passing it - don't get too down about it. At the end of the day this whole process is about making sure you are right for the job and the job is right for you. That can be hard to accept if you really want the job and don't ever see yourself doing anything else, but these people are experienced in finding the right people for the right job and visa versa.

Good luck to those waiting to hear.

:)

[CJayne]

Further to my last post, I just found out I've got through to the 2nd stage (quiet yippee - don't want to rub people's faces in it who haven't got through:O).

So far so good...but I still have the rest to go so I think the apprehension I'm feeling is not only justified but probably healthy too. I'm off to start this revision!

But I'm sure I'll be back lol!

[CJayne]

I attended stage 1 on monday 10th, had an email yesterday asking me to do the occupational personality questionnaire then received a further email this morning asking me along to the 2nd stage so all in all, 6/7 working days. That doesn't mean its the same for everyone though...I'm sure they have plenty of people to work through.

You still not heard anything mixmastermike?

[CJayne]

You can't prep for the next questionnaire either! When did you have your stage 1?

[JonG]

Don't worry too much about the wait. It took the full 15 working days before they told me I'd got through Stage 1 and I'm now starting at the college in Jan.

[CJayne]

Congratulations! I hope you enjoy it!

Was stage 2, oh and 3 as nerve wracking as I expect them to be?!

[Gonzo]

Stage 3.......depends who interviews you!!! :E

[viaEGLL]

Stage 3.......depends who interviews you!!!

:yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk:

[Gonzo]

:yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk:

Yes. Quite.

[CJayne]

Gonzo, didn't you say earlier that you are an interviewer??!! Lol! I'll be on my best behaviour I promise;)!

[Gonzo]

Chocolate biscuits make me a much more amenable interviewer, don't worry! :}

Provided by the hotel, of course..........:suspect:

[CJayne]

I'll bring along a packet of chocolate digestives then...at least I can console myself if I don't get through!!

Oh, and I'm not going to tell you the date of my 2nd stage in case you are actually there!!!

[Gonzo]

ATCOs aren't involved in stage 2, so you're quite safe! :}

[viaEGLL]

Chocolate biscuits make me a much more amenable interviewer, don't worry! ATCOs aren't involved in stage 2, so you're quite safe!
Professional as ever:E:E:E

[JonG]

Congratulations! I hope you enjoy it!

Was stage 2, oh and 3 as nerve wracking as I expect them to be?!


They can be, just make sure that you are well prepared with the reading they give you. Also if you have the opportunity and you haven't already see if you can arrange a visit to a tower or area control centre.

Personally the worst part of stage two was the computer tests. I thought I had seriously messed them up. So don't worry too much if you feel the same way.

And one last thing, I personally found the second Stage the hardest out of the three stages. I was alot more positive coming out of Stage 3 than stage 2. So anyway good luck and hope you get through.

[Atco82]

Hello all, was anyone at Manchester for stage 1 on friday 14th Dec? Just wondering has anyone heard back yet?

[CJayne]

Thanks for the good luck wishes!

I am fully intending on revising like mad for the second stage although I have realised that I learned a lot of the information from the 1st stage info pack. However, I'm going to learn as much as I can about ATC because I will definately be prepared then...plus if I do get the job, my hard work won't be wasted! If I don't, well, I can't say I didn't try.

I'm assuming I need to contact Swannick for a visit?? Or NATS maybe??

[Jay79]

Hi

I went all the way through the interview process for NATS and fell at the final hurdle back in the summer, during the group assessment and interview in Glasgow.

I'm 28 and in all honesty this was the first job I have wanted to do with all my heart, so obviously I was devastated at being knocked back.

I'm working in a general admin job for now and will apply again in June 2008. I was very impressed with the feedback I received. I was on the phone for half an hour and got detailed points on good/bad elements as well as being told how to succeed next time.

I was told many people re-apply and pass second time. Has anyone here done this? Did anyone else fall at the final hurdle?

[NeoDude]

Second attempt for me. Starting in April. I originally failed at stage 1 though.

[smellysnelly2004]

Jay79,

I did exactly what you did and passed second time.
PM me if you have any questions:ok:

[Odi]

Jay79, stick at it and apply again. I originally applied in 1992 and didn't get through and was told I was to old to try again. The rules were changed and I applied again in 1998 and this time got in.

Wouldn't swap it for anything.

[Jay79]

Thanks for the support.

I'll be confident when I reapply in the summer :)

[ManWithNoMouth]

Jay79, how long was it before you received your feedback? I recently fell at the final hurdle too - it's been over a month and still no word.

[1967kev]

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post so take it easy!!!

I've just spent around 2 hours reading through your comments and I can relate to most of them. At the moment I am at the final interview stage, which I am booked in for in February. I'm just really looking for some hints and tips on the best way to approach the interview. I am by no means clued up on the aviation industry, and, if I'm being honest, am a little fearful because of this.

I have been reading a lot of Gonzo's replies and there seems to be a lot of emphasis on preparation. i was wondering what Gonzo done in preparation for his final interview?

I was also wondering if anyone could help me in getting into Glasgow tower or Prestwick control centre for the day?

Thanks
:ok:

[Gonzo]

Hi.

I have been reading a lot of Gonzo's replies and there seems to be a lot of emphasis on preparation. i was wondering what Gonzo done in preparation for his final interview?

To explain: NATS' recruitment process is not looking for ATCOs. It is looking for candidates with certain attributes which statistics show give a better chance of coping with, and ideally thriving in, the ATC training environment. Therefore I, as an interviewer, am not expecting someone to know as much about ATC as I do. However, as an interviewer, it really does not please me when I am faced by a candidate who has done zero preparation of his/her own bat, doesn't really know what the job of an ATCO is, doesn't really know about the company they're apparently hoping to work for, and doesn't really know what has been happening elsewhere in the aviation industry.

I applied in mid 1997, whilst taking my A-Level exams. I went through the selection process in the last few months of '97, and started at the college in April 1998.

My preparation:
A lifelong passion in aviation. I'd been going to airshows and airports since I could remember. I had an airband radio so I could listen in to ATC. I had some flying experience. I had worked at a flying school for a period. I thoroughly researched NATS as an organisation....which airports it had a contract with, the rough boundaries of the FIRs. I also read quite a few books on ATC (Graham Duke is the perennial favourite), and subscribed to Flight International and AvWeek. I knew what were the coming events and big projects in both UK, European and worldwide ATC in the next few years (the then EATCHIP, RNAV, MLS, CFMU, IFPS, NERC etc). I had visited quite a few control towers both with Procedural Approach units and Approach Radar units, I had also visited London Terminal Control and London Area Control when both were located at West Drayton. I knew exactly what an ATCO's job was, and I definitely knew that I wanted to be one.

All the above sounds a great deal. However, because I was such an 'anorak', as one might say, I would have done a lot of it anyway, regardless of what career I was aiming for. It certainly didn't seem like work at all.

Away from the aviation side of things, I am also continually surprised by the lack of basic generic interview preparation that I see. There are many websites out there that will give the candidate guidelines on what sort of things every interview covers.

Being an ATCO entails lots and lots of planning and preparation while actually doing the job. Why not start now? :ok:

[1967kev]

Thanks Gonzo,

Its great that we can speak to guys like you who are doing the job and have been since such an early age. My interview is not until February, however I have started to prepare already. I have bought a CD - Rom called "How to become an air traffic controller" which is really helpful, I'm also beginning to read up on the technical side of things, technology used, major events in aviation etc. My only stumbling block is that I'm based in Glasgow and I really want to get into the tower at either Glasgow or Prestwick airport. I would also love to get into the control centre at Prestwick just to get a real feel of how you guys do the job. The only thing is I don't really know how to go about getting the opportunity to visit these places.:ugh: I'm going to look into it today but if you could give me some contact details, that would be much appreciated.:ok:

Ill also have a look on-line and try and get a hold of a couple of books by Graham Duke, if you think that will help.

Thanks again for your help Gonzo, I really appreciate it.:ok:

[Nokio]

Anyone starting on the January course on the 2nd? Whats going on with it, did they halve the intake again, like they did for September? Shortage of instructors maybe? Can anyone shed any light? Thanks.

[Gonzo]

As far as I know, it's a combination of different factors: Course redesign, so some instructors are working on that, and also there are quite a few trainee 'holding' between courses, so spare capacity 'built in' to the Jan course will be used up by those.

[atcowannabe]

1967kev - I read the Graham Duke book and agree that it was extremely useful so I definitely recommend it. I understand that some of the info contained is out of date but it helped to whet the appetite and gave snippets of info and helped gain basic understandings of subjects that I could then go and research further (mainly in the internet).

[Dances with Boffins]

Gonzo's "anorak" reply does reveal a little too much about his hobbies. Can someone make sure he goes home after his shift? :8

[NeoDude]

For any applicants who are wanting more of a feel for the job check out This Simulation (http://www.londoncontrol.com/). I've been using it for a couple of years, it's about as close as you'll get on your PC especially with the Voice Addon. There is a free demo too.

[CJayne]

Thanks NeoDude! I downloaded it a few weeks ago before my stage 1 then got scared pretty quickly! Not been on it since as too busy revising for stage 2 however, instead of being scared, I'm more excited about learning how to use it...! Sad or just interested?!

[MancLad993]

NeoDude, check your PM's!!

[JonG]

Anyone starting on the January course on the 2nd? Whats going on with it, did they halve the intake again, like they did for September? Shortage of instructors maybe? Can anyone shed any light? Thanks.


It's actually starting on the 9th Jan now and like Gonzo said there is apparently a new course format that they are trying out. Although I've also heard that there will be only 17 of us starting next week :ooh:

[AJ7]

It will be a new basic course format, different to the basic course i just finished, as i understand the situation its purely area-based and leads more into area foundation than before. Although I personally know nothing about area foundation...

Is it your induction that starts the 9th or are you in college then? I'm back on Monday for Aerodrome, was beginning to wonder if there would be anybody around at all :bored:

You may be right about the 17, although I believe there may be 8 or so recoursees with you making it around 25.

Good luck with it, probably see you around college,

Adrian

[JonG]

We're physically at the college on the 9th for a bunch of new test they are trialling, then a whole load of induction and introduction stuff. The actual learning I believe will be starting on the 17th.

[watch_the_birdie]

Got a phone call today asking if I can start at the college in April. Anyone else in the same boat?

That makes it about 7 months from applying, to actually starting...quicker than I thought!

[aerotech07]

Got a phone call today asking if I can start at the college in April. Anyone else in the same boat?

That makes it about 7 months from applying, to actually starting...quicker than I thought!


There are already quite a few of us holding for the Spring course, should have been starting in January, although the plans changed as discussed above. We were told March although wouldn't be surprised if thats slipped to April!

[AJ7]

Yeah the three day induction at the village hotel, seems so long ago but its about 3 months! Nice place though...

My app-to-start was a shade over 5 months, could have been 2 but i couldnt start in June. Some people we're even quicker... comes down to pot luck as to how full the courses are. 'Holding' is a much-heard term amongst our course going into area :}

[MancLad993]

I'm hopefully starting Apr. Its taken me over a year to there!!

[Gingerbread Man]

I'll be starting in April too apparently. Have heard next to nothing about it though! I understand most people stay in B&Bs while they're training. What do they do for the other two meals of the day??

Ginger ;)

[Gonzo]

I think they usually eat them..........unless things have changed......



;)

I'll get me coat

[smellysnelly2004]

Mr and Mrs Aramark will look after you for lunch...

[Gingerbread Man]

And I thought ATCOs were a witty bunch - http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=59309

:}

It was supposed to be a faintly serious question. In B&Bs i've visited before, you get a room and a bathroom and that's it. Enough for a night but not to live with because you have no cooking facilities. Do some people rent or are they reluctant to get stung by council tax?

[BigBoeing]

Most half decent b&b's will either give you access to cooking facilities, fridges, freezers, cupboards for food etc, or cook you a meal every night for free or a small price. Most places on Westby Road were like this. We had full use of kitchen anytime of day, huge living room with telly etc. And as someone has said, you get plenty of mostly edible food at college for lunch.

[smellysnelly2004]

Sorry GBman,
Mr and Mrs Aramark refers to the company that does the catering in the college canteen at lunchtimes(open all day actually). It's not gourmet stuff but it is ok and very affordable - you can get a 3 course meal for around £3.50.
With regards to council tax, you can get a form from the CRO that confirms you are in full time edcuation and Bournemouth council accept this as proof of being a student and you don't pay c.tax.

[Gingerbread Man]

That would seem to make renting a much more sensible prospect, thanks for the info ss2004 :ok: . I've seen 3 bed houses up for £1100 a month which would make it not much more per person than my student house in Southampton was. Still, i'm aware that this is serious drifting, so i'll silence myself.

(some more serious drifting...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/209/508196209_a4fc7e706d.jpg

Coat time.)

[Gonzo]

Ginger, just be warned before committing to renting a place, unless you can get a very flexible lease. Whilst at the college, you might be sent out to a unit at short notice to 'hold'. You don't want to be stuck paying rent for a place in Bournemouth and accommodation costs elsewhere at the same time.

[watch_the_birdie]

Is it wrong that in the picture above, I find the rock formation more interesting than the car? I'll try to keep my geologist-inner-being locked away from now on...

[CJayne]

Gingerbreadman...what about renting a room in someone's house? My boyfriend's mum rents hers out (when he's not there I hasten to add!) and she lives in Christchurch. There are loads of people who do it too so you won't necessarily have the hassle of a contract, will py a reasonable amount for rent/keep and it's negotiable. You'd have full use of a kitchen with somewhere to store food if you needed to, although some places do tend to charge a little extra if you wish to use their washing/drying machine etc which is only fair.

If I had a 3 bed place I'd rent a room out to CATC students as I'm only in Christchurch myself. Try flatmateclick.com (or UK??) as they may have something, the noticeboards at the school and word of mouth from graduating students perhaps.

HTH

[smellysnelly2004]

Gonzo,

Whilst that is true, (especialy these days) most people who can stay with their folks are sent to hold somewhere near there and then ones who are forced to hold a way off have their travel and accomodation paid for.
On a more sombre note, when considering a rental contract, us TATC's need to be aware of the possibility that we could fail the course we're on and be chopped within 3 months:{:{

[Gonzo]

ones who are forced to hold a way off have their travel and accomodation paid for.

Oh, really...I hadn't heard of that. Still, you'd still be better off if you weren't paying anything for an empty flat in Bournemouth.

[CJayne]

Gonzo, silly as it may sound...you're based at LHR? Do you know someone called Jason Cooper?

[CJayne]

Oh, and thanks Snelly!;):):O

[Gingerbread Man]

I won't be starting until April anyway Gonzo, so i'm not on the brink of signing any contracts. Thanks for the warning though, I hadn't factored that in. Likewise Snelly, the thought of being chopped is something i'll have to allow for (:uhoh:).

As for the car - as something to look at I think i'd side with the geology comment. As for something to do myself, i'll take the rally car to go.

[Gonzo]

Are we all geology geeks then?:O

[gc4atco]

Hi All,

Firstly, a BIG thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread. It has been a huge help to me over the last 4 months, having just been told that I've made it! :)

This is my first post, not wanting to jinx anything but feel safe to do so now!

Anyway, I just have a few questions I'm hoping y'all can help me with...

1. I, like others, have been asked to start at the college in April (much sooner than I thought!). I was told that both Area and the airports have asked for a much bigger quota this year which accounts for the apparently big course. Should this concern me? I mean, is it likely to mean less one on one time given there will be more students for each instructor etc? Does that equate to an overall lower chance of passing? Hmmm...

2. Area or Aerodrome? Having visited EGCC several times now, I would give anything to work on the Aerodrome side. I know that everyone says this and there's never enough spaces for all that want to do it, but is there anything you can do to sway your odds here?

3. Are all the courses the same or do they have more area- or aerodrome-based courses throughout the year? I know about the basic + 3 months (aerodrome) or +6 months (area) but just wondered if particular start dates leant towards either side?

4. The dreaded medicals. I've been told I've passed the NATS medical, and that I also need a CAA Class 1 medical. The HR lady said that this shouldn't be an issue and they usually organise a coach to take a load of us down to Gatwick one day from college (never heard of that before, anyone else?). It's just, I'd like to get all that stuff sorted before leaving my current job and starting at Hurn. Would be nice to know that it definitely was in the bag and I'm not dreaming!

Sorry for such a big post. Things are moving quite fast right now! Would appreciate any guidance.

Thanks and good luck to those currently in the process...keep going and remain determined!

gc4atco

[atcowannabe]

Hey gc4atco,

Firstly many congratulations!

Can I ask when you passed the 3rd stage and attended the medical? I attended my 3rd stage on 22 November and passed medical 2 days ago but have not heard anything about start dates! Maybe I am just being too eager ;)

[CJayne]

Congrats on passing stage 3! I've got my stage 2 on thursday which I am looking forward to. It's the waiting for an answer which gets to me!

[gc4atco]

thanks all.

actowannabe - I did my 3rd stage around when you did and medical also. I wouldn't worry though - HR are very busy with the January start group so they tell me. If in doubt give them a call, or a message on through the recruitment tool.

Best of luck CJayne!

[Amenhotep]

I attended my first stage yesterday. Not what I expected. There must have been about 25 of us there. Because, like others, I got there an hour early, I got a decent sofa seat in the waiting room. I strongly advise others going for their stage one to get there early to get a comfy seat. :ok:

I'd travelled there the previous day (sunday) and asked reception where I was expected to present myself on the day. The receptionist had never heard of NATS :} so I assumed she was a weekender. The next day they sounded more informed and directed me to the second floor. Each floor, it turns out, has a little reception desk, and waiting area where we all were.

We were split into two groups. Mine attended a small talk by Steve and Mike, both experienced ATCOs where you have the opportunity to listen to what ATC is like from the horse’s mouth and ask as many questions as you wish within 45mins. This isn’t assessed as goes a lot quicker than I would have liked. But then again, had it been left up to me, I’d have talked to them all day. Besides, since I had already visited Heathrow tower and Swanwick centre and had read through MATS part-1 50 times, I pretty much knew everything that had been said :8 . They even showed us a tabulated printout of the salary we can expect to get throughout our careers. Turns out, I already have this too, LOL :E . You’ll need to subtly steer the conversation that way and ask for it when you visit Swanwick if you want a copy.

I’m thankful I did this part before the tests as it helped me to relax. The most important thing you could do to help yourself, I found, was to relax. That’s why you need to get there early and talk to the other applicants to help ease the tension. Also, drink lots (of water, cheeky) and don’t expect to finish the tests. You won’t. Not only is it difficult, but I’m pretty sure it’s impossible. :uhoh:

Next I did the motivation test followed by the personality questionnaire (don’t want to call it a test). I have to say, I was very disappointed with the test. I had learned the motivation paper given to us back to front, including the data about the aircraft IN ITS ENTIRETY. And it turns out it is only there to give us the gist about aircraft. Never mind, I don’t regret having prepared so thoroughly. Unfortunately, I read in previous threads that all the answers are in the motivation paper. This isn’t entirely true. You’ll need to prepare for speed/distance/time questions and distance estimation questions on top of the preparation material. Nowhere in the text did it say what the distance between London and New-York is. I’m sorry, I’m ranting. If you must know, it’s because I know I’ve got that question wrong, lol :ugh: ! This part is timed (40 questions/18 minutes). I finish with plenty of time to spare. PREPARE!

Next came the personality questionnaire. 40 questions, not timed. I was the last to finish. Not very pleasant. Questions repeat themselves and you’re expected to be black or white. Either you are obsessed with past mistakes unable to move on, or you can’t stop looking ahead, never focussing on the task at hand. And if you choose a balance, you can then be accused of lying. They ask you to be as honest “as possible”. I’m sure that is because they know it’s not possible to be honest given the options you’re given. :oh:

A short coffee break. :zzz:

Then comes the REAL testing tests by a psychologist. First a basic checking test. Find which numbers on the left matches the one on the right. (40 questions/5 minutes). Speed and accuracy conflict here. Sounds easy but as the test goes on the numbers get longer and longer. Then another identical test but with letters instead of numbers. I’m a physics graduate and I got through 75% of it. The banking guy next to me did just as badly. Or just as well. Half full or half empty? Lol. :D

Then that diagram test shown in the preparation material. Except all the “commands” were different and there were about ten of them. Again, the test start easy and progressively becomes your worst nightmare. If you don’t hear from me again, I’m pretty sure it’s because of this part.
Finally, the cube thing. Three cubes laid out flat. Each one laid out differently and each one comes with a set of 20 questions with examples of other 3D cubes. You have to say which, if any, of the choices correspond to the flat cube. Not only are the two last cubes not laid out in the traditional cross shape but one cube had two identical sides and the 3D cubes towards the end were also rotated so you had to (in your head) rotate the entire flat cube in your head before (in your head) folding it together. Only to work out that none of the cubes correspond. :{

Then you go home. You get the results in about 15 working days. It’s tough. I suggest taking the following day off work as well, like I did. And drink a mug of hot chocolate. ;)

Any questions?

Sorry for such a long post but I like being thorough and I thought it needed updating. :ok:

[aerotech07]

4. The dreaded medicals. I've been told I've passed the NATS medical, and that I also need a CAA Class 1 medical. The HR lady said that this shouldn't be an issue and they usually organise a coach to take a load of us down to Gatwick one day from college (never heard of that before, anyone else?). It's just, I'd like to get all that stuff sorted before leaving my current job and starting at Hurn. Would be nice to know that it definitely was in the bag and I'm not dreaming!

The dreaded medicals indeed! Like others said, if you've been passed by the NATS medical you will have no problem at the CAA. When I went to my NATS medical the doctor informed me that it was generally fine but he would be referring me to the CAA at Gatwick for a final decision. I was assured it was nothing to worry about, but that NATS set very high levels and anything that was even remotely borderline would need to have a CAA class one before starting the college.

So I panicked and got a CAA booking the next week! Went down to Gatwick, went through the same again, the CAA Doctor said absolutely no problems, gave me a certificate and sent me on my way. He also stated about NATS high medical standards.

So if NATS are happy for you to start without getting your CAA class one you must be fighting fit and really impressed them at your Swanwick medical!

See you in April!! (reading here I guess the March course is now April!!!)

[Vic154]

Great post Amenhotep. Your experiences and thoughts are very similar to mine. The process hasn't changed since I did it in June, but I failed and am waiting til I can reapply. Hopefully you'll get through! Not sure where I went wrong, probably the cubes.

I'd be interested to know how you get on.

Good luck!

[watch_the_birdie]

I heard from chatting to an HR employee at my 3rd stage (after I had finished!), that the biggest thing that people fail at stage 1 is the number/letter checking test. I was saying surely it was the cubes and code tests, but no, statistically she said it was the numbers and letters test.

Intriguing!

[coliningrad]

Hi all,
Did stage 1 in December, and have my stage 2 tomorrow. Researching my fingers to the bone at the moment!

Amenhotep, I share your experience almost to the letter! :D

Managed a visit to Swanwick on Monday which was terrific, brilliant to get there and see the job actually being done, and everyone was friendly, helpful and accomodating.

Anyone else on tomorrow afternoons stage 2? I'll see you there :P

[CJayne]

Yes...I have my stage 2 tomorrow afternoon Colingrad...see you there!

[Amenhotep]

Hello fellow applicants! Be assured, the very fact that you are reading this forum has increased your chances of being successful tenfold in my opinion.

I hope my previous post helps other prepare for their first stage assessment day. I've given it it's own thread titled "NATS Interview Process - Stage 1" in the hope that people's experiences could be focussed into a single shorter thread (this one has 673 posts now). Perhaps some of those people that have just undergone the second stage could do the same and write a new thread entitled "NATS Interview Process - Stage 2". I don't know about you guys, but I, for one, am still not sure what to fully expect and would find it very helpful. And it would make it slightly easier to know where to find information, and avoid having the same questions repeated several times over. :confused:

Besides, I want to take advantage of any spare time I have to prepare, rather than wait to see if I've actually passed before doing anything about it. Yes, I'm a swot. :E:}
Any volunteers?

[Vic154]

I sent a cheeky email to NATS HR yesterday asking for feedback on my stage one failure, even though its been seven months...and they have given me some!

Apparently I passed everything except the cubes, spatial reasoning. I must have done particularly bad on that as surely the pass mark can't be that high?! Anyone got any ideas on how this is marked? I didn't finish it of course, and any anwswers I was below 50% sure I skipped as I heard you get marked down, perhaps thats where I went wrong. Did anyone guess a lot of answers and pass?

[Amenhotep]

Well, I got my results back today for my stage one. And I'm sad to say I didn't make it. :( Basic checking let me down. I got 64/80 whereas the pass mark is 65. In everything else I did fine. I got 93% on the motivation paper! I'm absolutely gutted. One single mark!!!! And now I have to wait another 309 days before reapplying. BAHH!! And I will! This isn't the last you'll hear of me. I'll get you next time NATS, MWAHahahaa.... :E:E:E

[watch_the_birdie]

They tell you your actual marks now? The only marks I ever heard were my computer test ones, which they briefly told me at stage 3, but they meant nothing to me or the interviewers.

[PaulM]

Amenhotep,

My sympathies to you, but if its any consolation, the fact that you know what to expect from the tests next year can only make it easier for you.

You know that all the people reading the other thread are going to say.....
.....Maybe you should have worn a suit.......and cheap jokes along those lines(I wouldn't dream of it obviously).;)

Best of luck next time and bear in mind that many, many people got in second time.
Myself included, and I didn't wear a suit to the test day either.

[Amenhotep]

Lol. Thanks for the encouragement. Besides, I have to succeed next time, or my investment in an airband radio will go to waste :O
Well, it'll be fun too, :}

[JonG]

You know that all the people reading the other thread are going to say.....
.....Maybe you should have worn a suit.......and cheap jokes along those lines(I wouldn't dream of it obviously).

I wasn't gonna say that. Honest :rolleyes:. Anyway, I'm glad it hasn't put you off next year and at least you know that you are very close to the standard so there isn't much you for you to work at. Although I guess that can be an annoying thing to happen.

[Odi]

Colingrad

If you're the same Colingrad that I think you are from ACC then PM me (or email me - you know the address :ok:) and I'll arrange a visit to Aberdeen for you.

Didn't know you were looking to join our happy band!

[Vic154]

Amenhotep,

Sorry to hear that and yep I agree with Paul that if only you had worn a suit....

You got feedback as well eh, did they happen to tell you what your result was for the spatial reasoning? They didn't tell me what mark was for that, just that it was the only thing I failed and was my weakest area. I'd like to know how this is marked, and what's the passmark, etc.

Good luck for next year, I've only got 146 days to go!

[coliningrad]

Well I had my stage 2 yesterday and thought I'd completely flunked it on the computer test, but just got an email saying I've passed! :) Looking forward to stage 3 now in a few weeks.

CJayne, have you heard yet?
Odi, I'll pm you when I get back to Scotchishland. :ok:

[watch_the_birdie]

Cool, well done...everyone thinks they fail the computer tests!

I assume from your location you are stage 3-ing it in Glasgow? I bizarrely found stage 3 the most enjoyable. Plus I hear they are trying to get lots of people for the April intake, so might see you then!

P.S. Wear suit. Haha. Like you don't know.... Just taking the mick out of the other NATS process thread postings. :P

[miningcat]

Hi,

I've got my stage 2 booked now. Was hoping someone could give me an idea of what to expect in the computer tests?

Thanks!

[CJayne]

Colingrad...I didn't make it:(
Made lots of v silly mistakes in the motivation paper (I knew I had done when Jocelyn walked back in the room). I'm just not ready for it yet I don't think - I have an 18 week old daughter too so am taking consolation in the fact that I wouldn't get to spend much time watching her grow up if I was spending all my time studying. These things happen for a reason and I will be reapplying next year!

Good luck to you for stage 3 and please do let me know how it goes!

[stu_h]

Miningcat,

There's little you can really do to prepare for the computer tests, except probably to remember Mr. Mannering - Dont Panic!

There are three basic elements to the test:

Checking your ability to remember instructions whilst sorting data, your ability to multi-task (which involves preventing numbers colliding with each other while doing maths sums), and spacial reasoning skills.

If you answer something wrong, don't dwell on it, otherwise you'll not be concentrating on the next question, but at the same time learn from the mistake.

That said, it's easier to say than it is to do on the day. As you'll see from posts here, alot of people come out of the tests thinking they have not done well. I did them when I was 19 and thought they had not gone too bad - I failed that time. I did them just before Christmas, aged (alot) older, and thought I'd blown it - I passed and have stage 3 in two weeks.

Enjoy it, and if you don't make it this year, dont give up.

[miningcat]

Thanks a lot stu_h!

[Nokio]

Hello everyone, Im starting at the college in April, well done to all the others that made it, a wish of perseverence to those that did not.
A while ago someone asked me for advice for stage 2, and i collected all the info I could for that bloke, his name was Simin, hope it went your way.
Anyhoo, I thought it would be useful for others with stage 2 pending, so here it is. Do forgive that its quite lengthy, and staggered in places, its different info from all over patched together.


Hello Simin, thankyou for the thank you. Well done making it to stage two.
Lots of info in the attached Word file, if you cant open it, let me know.
My advice is practice interview questions, write them out, and practice saying them.
Your answers in the interview are scored and they are looking for key words apparently, so include words like "motivated, organised, reliable, efficient, considerate of others, common sense, logical, reasoned, reasonable, constructive critcism", you know , positive things.
The motivation paper this time is 45 questions, mostly from the 2nd booklet, but I took each chapter and made my own notes inculuding bits from the first booklet that were not in the 2nd, by writing out your own notes, over and over, it really sticks. Know the first booklet as well. Brush up on your D/S/T calculations again, about 3or4 dst questions. The personality questionnaire, like it says in the attachment, is just one page, different format, series of statements, rate them -2 to +2, which corresponds to very unlike you to very much like you. I know that the email from nats says there is nothing you can do to prepare, but there is, practice your answers! think of other questions yourself and write out answers and practice saying them. Get someone to give you a mock/practice interview. Very good luck.
One more thing, it might help if you have any kind of game on your PC, and play using your keyboard.
Nokio.
ATTACHMENT
Personnel Interview
I am afraid there are no tricks to pass this.



Everyone gets the same questions to examine your suitability. The only thing
I can say is “be yourself and be open and honest”. Although, don't rush any of
your answers. You will need to think of some good examples for various
skills. Here are some examples of questions you might face:


Are you any good at concentrating on one task while maintaining awareness of
what is going on around you?
Do you have any weaknesses?
Give an example of good decision/bad decision you have made.
What action would you take if something weren’t going to plan?
Do you think teamwork is important?
What do you consider vital for good teamwork.
Give an example of when someone recently made you change your mind.
What type of people do you not like?
Do you get on with most people?
Do you act the same around different people.
Give an example of when you had to take action under pressure
Would you describe yourself as a messy person?
Are you reliable?
Give an example of your reliability?
What would you do if you found you were struggling with the workload at the college?
Would you have problems going to others for help?
Do you take interest in other peoples problems?
Do you always follow rules?
What do you think about when you are alone?
Would you change your approach if it wasn’t working?
Are you organised? Why?
This is a strange interview.
It is conducted in a very formal manner. Everyone gets the same questions and the interviewer will give you absolutely no feedback on your answers - not even a nod of the head or smile! There's nothing you can do to prepare for this interview. You can only be yourself. This is where you will get the results of your initial selection tests and your answers here will also be compared to your answers in the personality questionnaire you encountered on the first selection stage. Questions go along the lines of: "Do you consider yourself a mature person?" The next question is always "Why?" You will be asked how you cope under pressure, do you have good time management?, do you consider yourself to have any weaknesses? After answering these questions you will almost always be asked to provide an example. So think about real life examples of when you have had to deal with difficult people/situations and when you have had to concentrate on a task while maintaining peripheral awareness. You will also have to give some good reasons why you want the job. You aren't expected to answer everything correctly. Just be honest and open.

2.3 Interviews
For those candidates who are selected for interview, a personality profile is generated by a
computer "expert system" from the data collected at the testing stage and this is available at
the interview. The interviews are conducted against criteria drawn from the original job
analysis. There are two interviews, a technical interview conducted by an operational ATCO,
and a Personnel interview. Emphasis is placed at the interview stage on the motivation for a
career in ATC and previous examples of achievement orientation. The interviews follow a
structured format and measure:
- Motivation/Achievement Orientation - Stability
- Reasoning Skills - Maturity
- Team Skills - Aviation Focus
- Communication Skills - Flexibility
- Ability to Fit into a Regulated System - Integrity
- Domestic Mobility - Problem Solving
- Multi-tasking
- Tenacity

Simin, there are two interviews, one at stage 2, HR interview, one at stage 3 Technical interview with ATCO and HR person.

COMPUTER TESTS
Lots of fun! READ the instructions and use the practice time very wisely,
This is a series of matching and sorting tests, ending with a crude radar type simulation.
Using a keyboard (left or right handed options) you have to react very quickly.
You will have to sort shapes, colours and numbers into categories of varying complexity. For example, to start with you may simply sort all squares as A, all circles as B, triangles as C. Then later receive an instruction to sort all blue triangles as a circle. Similarly with numbers. Sort into 1-50, 51-100, 101-150. Then "if the digits add up to less than 7, sort as 50"
It sounds complicated, but you can practice each stage as often as you like before continuing to the tested phase
In the last part of the test you are given some numbers moving across the screen representing aeroplanes on a radar. You have to remove the minimum number of 'planes' to avoid any collisions. To make this more complex, you then have to do this while also working out some arithmetical questions, which appear for a very short time at the bottom of the screen. YOU decide which is more important!

Q. What are the computer tests all about?
A. The tests measure the following skills.
Ability to absorb information simultaneously from multiple sources.
Ability to absorb new information whilst making decisions.
Ability to project forward using current information.
Ability to make adjustments constantly to the whole picture.
The three computer based tests, are:-
Sort Task. The task requires candidates to sort objects (coloured shapes and numbers) into
categories by given rules. The candidate must take account of occasional messages which
alter the way objects are sorted and monitor whether the object to be sorted matches a given
stimulus which changes from time to time.
Relative Direction Task. This is a two part test, in the first the candidate is presented with a
dot, an arrow and words left or right. The tasks is to say whether the word correctly describes
the position of the dot relative to the arrow. The second part is similar except sometimes the
arrow is shown from behind (represented by the arrow in outline) but the task is still to
describe the position of the dot for someone standing in front of the display.
Moving Objects Task. In this test a series of objects (represented by numbers) move across the
screen at constant speed in different directions. The task is to identify which if any of the
objects will collide and to remove the minimum numbers of objects to prevent all collisions.
In the second part of the test multiple choice arithmetic questions appear at the bottom of the
screen simultaneously with the main tasks to introduce an element of multi tasking.
I am under the impression that the majority think they have failed the computer tests. So I
would not read anything how you felt during the computer tests. Use all the available practice
time and be absolutely sure you understand each test before starting it for real. You are in
control of the speed of progression, so make sure you are comfortable and able to perform to
your best.

In 1992 NATS introduced a second phase of the testing procedure with the development of
computer based tests. The development of the tests arose because the original tests did not
measure the following skills.
- Ability to absorb information simultaneously from multiple sources.
- Ability to absorb new information whilst making decisions.
- Ability to project forward using current information.
- Ability to make adjustments constantly to the whole picture.
The tests were developed by SHL and trials were conducted on candidates at the interview
stage and existing Students, to validate the tests, before they were used for selection of our
Students.
The three computer based tests, are:-
a) Sort Task
The task requires candidates to sort objects (coloured shapes and numbers) into
categories by given rules. The candidate must take account of occasional messages
which alter the way objects are sorted and monitor whether the object to be sorted
matches a given stimulus which changes from time to time.
b) Relative Direction Task
This is a two part test, in the first the candidate is presented with a dot, an arrow and
words left or right. The tasks is to say whether the word correctly describes the
position of the dot relative to the arrow. The second part is similar except sometimes
the arrow is shown from behind (represented by the arrow in outline) but the task is
still to describe the position of the dot for someone standing in front of the display.
c) Moving Objects Task
In this test a series of objects (represented by numbers) move across the screen at
constant speed in different directions. The task is to identify which if any of the
objects will collide and to remove the minimum numbers of objects to prevent all
collisions. In the second part of the test multiple choice arithmetic questions appear
at the bottom of the screen simultaneously with the main tasks to introduce an
element of multi tasking.
Initial feedback from those who took the tests was very encouraging and significant
correlation's with progress have been achieved for tests a) and b) which now form part of the
selection process. Test c), the moving objects task has not yet shown any significant
correlation, however this is due to the relatively small sample size rather than any problems
with the test.
The correlation between the computer based tests and the original paper and pencil tests are
mainly low but generally positive. This confirms that there is sufficient independence
between the computer based tests and the existing tests to ensure that the skills being tested
are not adequately measured at present.

Somebody from PPrune gave me this advice;
“With regards stage 2 (if you haven't yet done it), the PQ is nothing,just a one page really basic questionnaire - nothing taxing at all. Shouldn't be a problem.HR structured interview is a set of 60 questions. You answer them and they judge you according to how you interpret the questions as well as what you give as actual answers. They'll ask you about your teamwork skills, working under pressure, organisation, all the ATCO skills basically. Just make sure you give plenty of good and valid examples.You need to just take it easy on this one, it's not rocket science. I've been reading a lot of posts here on PPRUNE and frankly I think people are worrying about it so much that end up giving stupid answers that aren't logical at all.Just keep a clear head, keep calm and give logical answers - I'm sure you'll see it's not overly difficult - I hope!!!”Good luck Simin, and practice well.
Nokio.

[daveosger]

Hi there,

I recently made it to stage 3 but i'm having trouble arragning visits to NATS centres. I always seem to get answer machines or the wrong people. Can anyone help me to arrange a visit?

[atcowannabe]

Do you have anywhere specifically in mind to visit?

[daveosger]

Manchester and swanwick are preferable, but anywhere will do, i'd like to visit at least two establishments so prestwick or any other areodrome are not a problem for me

[petedavis]

Hi,

Does anyone have any advice for stage 3? like the extremely in depth descriptive for stage 2 above

Thanks

[RadarRambler]

not checked but doesnt that nats web site now detail the interview process in more detail?

[q2663589]

Hello, I've also made it to stage 3 and would like to visit Manchester A.C.C on or before the 18th Feb. If anyone as visited there and could give me the relevant contact details it would be very useful. Also, can anyone who as done stage 3 just clear up whether it consists of one interview with two interviewers ( A.T.C and H.R ) or two interviews, one with each?
Ta very much.

[X-L]

My stage 3 near the end of last year had one interview with two interviewers (one HR and one ATC) and the other stage 3 fun and games.

[RadarRambler]

With how the procedures and tests have changed over time, and also the job, it would be quite interesting to see how many ATCO's would pass the tests and interviews today

[TCR]

Can you get into the college in Bournemouth and never become an ATCO?
If so, how often does this happen. I know people do resits on their exams etc., but is there a limit to how much/often you can do this? What options do NATS leave you if you continue to fail your exams?

[TCR]

How often a year does the college start new courses? I know they do the stage ones all year round, so you can always get into one of them, but is it just Sept & Jan that they take in new "students".

I only ask because I get to reapply for stage one in May, but would preferably like to start the college later than Sept as I have just started a new job and wouldnt want to leave it 4 or 5 months after I started. I know this is kinda getting ahead of myself again but I know that sometimes people going through the recruitment process can go from stage one to college in a matter of weeks!

Also, I recently contacted NATS HR asking when I get to reapply this year. They said 26th April, as this was the date last year when my stage one was (that i consequently failed as a result of the online personality questionnaire.) So, would it be OK for me to wait a few months to resubmit my application, or would NATS think I wasn't bothering again this year?

I'm not really in a rush because I would like to save up lots of money to survive the lousy salary that a TATC receives, should I ever get past stage bloody one!! Me no like personality questionnaires...:ugh:

[smellysnelly2004]

New basic course just started - there will 3 more this year at 13 week intervals.

[smellysnelly2004]

In response to your first question TCR, there are many people that don't get through the college - roughly 30-40% success rate at a guess.
After that the validation rates at units vary from 25-90% - only based on hearsay and what I've read on here.
IF you fail a written exam/oral board at the college you will get one more go, then if you fail again, you fail the course and go to a training analysis where they decide if you warrant a recourse. If not, you get a training review where you can 'argue your case'. In general if you fail a particular course twice you will no longer be employed - there are some exceptions to this but not many. However, you can fail one course, pass the second time, then fail the next course, get a recourse etc Some people, who want to stay with the company, get jobs as ATSA's or in admin.

[mcn]

Hi. Has anyone who recently went through the stage 2 interview have any tips on it? thanks.

[Vic154]

Hey mcn,
If you back one page you will see an incredibly helpful post by Nokio about Stage 2.
Good luck...
Vic

[hatemyjob]

I have the first stage of NATS testing coming up and I was just wondering if anyone could provide me with an example of the sort of questions they ask during the motivational section of the testing so I have an idea of what to expect?

[smellysnelly2004]

Hatemyob,

This very thread is full of the info you require

[1967kev]

Hi everyone,

I have my 3rd stage interview mid-February. As preparation for this, I have visited "Scottish" and "Oceanic" at Prestwick, I have also visited Glasgow Tower. I have read the book "Air Traffic Control" by Graham Duke and I have also been studying the motivation pdf's like there is no tomorrow. The only problem is, I don't know if this is enough!!!:confused:

I was wondering if anyone who has been through the stage 3 interview could tell me just how technical the interview is....Are they looking for you to have an in-depth knowledge of ATC or a basic understanding of the principles of ATC or somewhere in the middle?!!!

Also, how is the interview split, are you interviewed 50% of the time by the ATCO and 50% of the time by the HR person?

Anways, any feedback is much appreciated

And can I just say as well, anyone who is just starting the NATS recruitment process should read this thread back to front...I wish I had because I would have been much better prepared for stages 1 & 2, some of the posts are extremely helpful.

Cheers

Kevin:ok:

[NeoDude]

You look to have done almost exactly the same prep as me except I went to EDI instead of Glasgow. You'll be fine, just relax :)

[chaudhrysahab]

Replying to hatemyjob:-

For Motivation test, they provide notes to read thoroughly but i thing it is very important that you must know about numerical reasoning because in the test you will be asked questions like (Example) If an Aircraft is flying 350 knots & have 20 mins fuel and runway is 100 miles away so how long does it take to land. :ugh:
Make sure you wel prepared for spatial reasoning with time, i mean you should be able to do 40 quesions in 20 mins. :cool:

Good luck. :ok:

[billy girl]

Hi,

This is to the guys at the college. Am starting there shortly and trying to sort out budget! Is it just the £10,000 now? Last time I heard there was a £60 weekly non-taxable allowance in addition to the £10k. Has that been dropped?

Cheers,

Sarah

[smellysnelly2004]

Currently £10,000 plus tax free £60 a week living allowance
Works out about average £950 take home a month

[billy girl]

Whew! You're a star - cheers for that!

Sarah

[Diem]

Hi all, just about read this entire thread, alot of helpful info!
I applied through the website the other day and was immediately requested to book a time for my stage 1.
I feel like I should make sure this is something I can do before wasting anyone's time though.
My main question is, after the college is it possible to request where you'll be posted? Anywhere in Scotland would be fine (nothing against you English types :)) or would you have to wait a few years for availability (if thats even a possibility.)

Thanks.

[timelapse]

Sadly, you have absolutely no real way of choosing where you are posted. It really is done on business need and where you would be best suited in terms of the work, where you're likely to do well and validate, not which location would suit you.

There's a guy who's just gone through college whos life is in Aberdeen, girlfriend is in Aberdeen, held at Aberdeen between courses, the Manager ATC of Aberdeen really wanted him to work there - and he got Cardiff.

You, of course, may equally get exactly where you want but it's russian roulette at the best of times and it changes every other minute as regards where needs people and how badly.

Obviously also the different disciplines will direct you to certain places. If you get sent onto the area course then there's only really 3 choices of where you can be posted (Manchester/Swanwick/Prestwick) - but if you get sent onto the airports courses then clearly the choice is far more widespread. As regards whether you can choose to do the airports/area courses - you can make a preference but again - it's a business need decision. There are people going through at the moment who made no request onto the airports course, but got them anyway even though they presumed, and were told, that if they made no request onto airports they were going to get area.

So there you go!

[Diem]

Thank you for the insanely quick - and in depth - reply Timelapse!
I'll go for the stage 1 anyway (its free!) and see how it goes from there. Darn family ties! :)
Thanks again.

[smellysnelly2004]

Timelapse has got it absolutely spot on.
I will add one thing which may help though. Our CDM said to us that as we were mobile grades an could be sent anywhere (you have to sign a bit of paper saying so) the best tactic regarding posting is to think of the worst possible place you could be sent and be prepared to go there. Not saying that's where you'll be but if you're ready for the worst, you can only be pleasantly surprised.
You are asked where your preference is but that is the last consideration after business need, where your skills are best suited and a hefty dose of black magic!!

[nieldo]

Hi all, first post :).

Im hoping to apply for NATS in September 09, I currently have bugger all GCSE wise and am going back to college for a year In September 08 to redo English and maths which will bring the total GCSE grades at A-C to 4. I have read on the NATS site that they require 5 passes A to C, is this an absolute must have?

To get 5 I would need to take another course but I have the important ones down already (English, maths and science), and I cant see what else would be relivent to the job. I dont really fancy taking an extra course just to make it magic number 5 but I will if I must :).

Also, Ive read this thread from start to finish and I can see it being a great help to people going through the stages now, read it if you can!

Edit: Also, can I apply to join NATS before I get the results of my GCSE courses? I would like to go through the stages before getting the results, as I am now at the age where I have to pay for college courses and plan to do A levels if I dont make it into NATS. It would be a shame to pay for the A levels then get accepted into NATS and leaving a fully paid for course, or not applying at my college but not getting into NATS therefore having to wait a year before starting my A levels.

Just to note, I will be applying at NATS every year like clockwork till I make it :) aviation is where I belong.

[Ivor_Novello]

I will add one thing which may help though. Our CDM said to us that as we were mobile grades an could be sent anywhere (you have to sign a bit of paper saying so) the best tactic regarding posting is to think of the worst possible place you could be sent and be prepared to go there. Not saying that's where you'll be but if you're ready for the worst, you can only be pleasantly surprised.

Unfortunately that is the catch of an otherwise interesting deal of free training (and a wage) and a secure well paid profession at the end of the training (if you pass).
Imagine the queue if the same route was introduced to pilot jobs...

I must confess that one of the main factors that were holding me back frrom applying was not being able to choose where you work, but unfortunately that's the way NATS do it.
If there's a shortage of skills and ATCOs that's also one of the reasons.
I don't mind the initial low salary, but I am "worried" about where I could end up posted. After all once you unplug the headset you got to live somewhere and if it's somewhere you don't want to be, it can be hard.
I am sure there's a lot of people with skills who are put off from applying because of having no control whatsoever over where you'll end up living and working for the rest of your career.....

regards

Ivor

[timelapse]

It should be noted that once you validate somewhere you can always request to transfer to another unit.. it takes a while and isn't always possible but it happens alot from what I hear.

[Diem]

Thanks for all the info everyone.

This might seem like a strange question, but do ATCOs have mortgages?
If you can be posted to another unit at the other end of the country it at any time it seems like a wasted investment.

[petedavis]

Is there a certain number of years return service with NATS after passing the college course? Surely there must be otherwise people who didn't get a posting they wanted would just disappear after validation. Or am I wrong?

[timelapse]

Nope there's no bonding at all..

[smellysnelly2004]

On the Area side of things there really isn't much of an issue with bonding (provided people are planning on staying in the UK) as you would have to work for NATS regardless.
For airports/aerodromes then yes, I suppose you could argue that you get posted somewhere you didn't like and bugger off - but if you were training with NATS then presumably your preferred posting was at a NATS airport who are unlikely to take you after walking out on another NATS unit.

[Gonzo]

Also bear in mind that if you leave before validating, then technically you don't even have a rating to be able to sell yourself with. I think you need the have started an SRG approved unit training plan within one year of finishing the course.

[petedavis]

Gonzo, I've noticed reading this thread that you conduct stage 3 interviews? Is this something you still do and if so, at which locations? Also are you open to bribes? ;)

[Gonzo]

I do
I can be anywhere
Yes.

Two of the above are true.

[petedavis]

Well the third was a joke! :)
Any tips on what you look for in the interviews?

[Gonzo]

Well, I have written at length throughout this thread on things I like to see....preparation being a good starting point.

To be honest, the other areas we look for are characteristics that you either have or you don't have.

I don't think that the interviews we run are any different to any other, so the sort of things every interview candidate should be doing before an interview will stand you in good stead......doesn't mean you'll be successful of course, I could be faced with the best prepared candidate in the world but (s)he might not get through because of other factors.

[timelapse]

Just to update something Gonzo said.. it's 6 months now - between completing a rating course and starting a unit training plan.. otherwise you have to do an APC (a few days back at the college to remind you/prove to instructor that you can still do it all!) before you can begin the training at a later date...and that's provided that your student licence hasn't expired! (2 years).

So yeah, you'd want to be getting valid!

[timhan0]

I'm potentially applying in 2009, been following this thread recently.

One aspect I'd like someone to elaborate upon is the 1st stage tests where I have read people explaining about questions such as:

aircraft is 'xx' miles/km from an airport, travelling at 'xx' knots descending 'xx' feet etc will it make it to the airport?

I understand the DST triangle formula will be involved but could anyone here please provide a clear example (or two!).

[timelapse]

Aircraft 40 nautical miles away, at 30,000 ft descending at 3000ft per minute and travelling at 240 knots.. can it make it?


240 knots = 4 miles per minute, which means 10 minutes to get the 40 miles to the airport.

3000 feet per minute for 10 minutes means a descent of 30,000 feet.

So in this scenario - depending on the wind, the phase of the moon, etcetc and how much luck the pilot had, and if his callsign was BAW038 or not.. he might just make the runway. Just.

For example :P

[fabrifx]

I'd like to ask a question to you all, maybe Gonzo might be the most suitable person to answer but any information would be greatly appreciated..
I'd like to know whether european citizens can participate in the NATS selection or not. I already tried Eurocontrol and I passed all the tests, group tests but unfortunately I wasn't successful at the interview..I am currently undergoing an ATC selection here in Italy but the process is very very slow as it could take as much as one year and a half from the first test to the medical tests so I was thinking of applying for NATS too..Does anybody know if it's possible? Thanx! :)

[Gonzo]

As it says on the NATS careers website, as long as you have the right to live and work in the EU, you'll be fine.

[fabrifx]

Thank you for the quick reply Gonzo! I asked the question because the NATS website isn't completly compatible with my browser(Firefox on a Linux operating system) so I can't find all the information I need..I guess I'll have to install Explorer..
So I'm going to start making a search on the net to know what it takes to obtain a work permit in UK! Thanx again and good luck to everyone!

[timelapse]

I might be wrong but I think as a resident of a country subscribed to the EU, you can live&work in any EU country as you please.. Standing by to be corrected though.

[shanemoloney]

can any one help me? i am due to take the inital test for nats soon and just want to know other than spaial awareness, what other things are in it i.e. algebra etc :sad:

[stu_h]

Shane,

Worth a read through the thread as there are posts with alot more detail, but in brief:

All sections are multiple choice.

1 - Numerical and Alphabetical checking.
Depends on how your brain is wired, but personally I liked these as a bit of a warm-up. Basic test to find the answer that matches. For example, you may be given :AGHN and the choices could be:
AGNH, ANGH, AGHN, ANHG

Starts out with 4 or 5 letters, working up to I think it's 9?
Repeat the exercise again, except for numbers. 5 mins to do each section.

2 - Spacial awareness. 3 sets of cubes and too little time!
The first cube isn't too bad, the next slightly worse, the third is just evil:E

3 - Diagrammatic Checking.
You'll start with a stack of 4 symbols. Next to each is an instruction (eg, reverse the shape, swap it with the one below etc). You'll then be presented with options as to how the shape should look. For example:

:)
:\
:uhoh:
:rolleyes:

If the instructions next to the top three smileys above said swap with the one below, you would eventually get:

:\
:uhoh:
:rolleyes:
:)

(That better be right!)

50 of these, again against the clock, and they get alot more complicated than the example above.

Think that about covers it. Good luck!

[hatemyjob]

1 day to go until my first test day.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: :eek::eek:

I have a horrible feeling I've not prepared enough.

[1967kev]

Hi everyone,

Just a quick note to say that I had a visit to Glasgow tower today and it was excellent, extremely helpful. Combined with my visit to "Scottish" last week, I now feel confident and almost ready for my final interview.:ok:

I would strongly recommend visiting a tower or control centre or both. The guys there are excelent and willing to answer any questions you have, which is obviously a massive help when your final interview is looming. If anyone is in the Glasgow area and are looking to visit either Glasgow tower or Prestwick, you can PM me and I'll give you the details of contacts.

Kevin:ok:

[petedavis]

Hmmm I'm in a bit of a situation here. Had a visit booked at prestwick but it has been cancelled due to manning shortages. With such a short time until my final interview and no scope for any extra time off work, I am worried this will have a negative impact on the 'preparation' side of my interview. I currently work in a RAF control tower, and have visited 3 others, but no area centre. Any advice? Is an ACC visit a must?

[kimmy-57]

I am just about to sit my Stage 1 on Monday. I have studied all the materials they give you and done the practice SHL tests. Can anyone shine a little light on what is involved?

Thanks
kim

[petedavis]

There's a description on the previous page :)

[shanemoloney]

Thanks stu h for the info a bit more chilled about it now BRING IT ON :E

[shanemoloney]

does any1 know any good sites to revise up more on Diagrammatic Checking? been on the nats site and done the type of test samples on that but it is not easy to find other sites or places with it on too.:8

[1967kev]

Hi,

If you already work in an RAF control tower then thats a pretty good starting point!!!! I think you already have one up on everyone else right away!!!!:ok:

I was lucky enough to get into the ACC and I must say, it was really helpful, as was the visit to Glasgow Tower. The reason I visited these places was because in an earlier post by Gonzo, he said that when he conducts an interview, he wants to see that you have prepared well....i.e. visiting NATS centres, reading ATC books, knowing about NATS as a company etc etc.

I think you'll be fine with the whole visit thing, might be a good idea to read the book "Air Traffic Control" by Graham Duke, I found it extremely helpful and it put me in good stead for my visits.

Is your interview in Glasgow any time soon?

[tired-flyboy]

@Pete

If your in the RAF, couldn't you organise a visit to RAF Prestwick. See what that is like and you never know you, they might even get you to sit in the civi ops side. (you could always ask)

Just a thought, but as has been said previously, if you can demonstrate that you tried to visit and were asked, you could always reply ' unfortunately my visit was cancelled due to unforseen circumstances!'

[Stuw1986]

Hi All

Im new to this site, thought i'd join up as im starting at the college in April having passed all the stages and medical.

Feel free to ask any Q's about any of the stages.

Anyone else starting in April? Anybody know exactly what date its starting in April? I know its the first week of the month.

Cheers
Stu

[EDDN]

Hi,

i would like to visit the Swanwick LACC before my final stage in 2,5 weeks. Does someone have maybe some contact details whom to contact to arrange a visit there? (email/tel.) Thanks in advance.

Regards

[chaudhrysahab]

Reply t Kimmy-57

Also try to do practice on Numerical Reasoning cos it isvery important fo 1st stage and fast speed practice for basic checking section.

Good Luck :ok:

[NeoDude]

Is numerical reasoning a new addition? I didn't do it at my stage 1.

[Nokio]

No numerical reasoning for me either, that was in July, do you mean D/S/T maths questions perhaps?

[chaudhrysahab]

I asked to prepare in numerical reasoning co in motivaion test, for example they ask the question like if Aircraft is flying at FL310 and have 10 mins fuel left, runway is about 30 miles away so on which degree aircraft has to fly to come down/glide quickly within 10 mins.

I didnot mean exact Numerical reasoning question but these kinds of question, they do involve numerical reasoning.:)

[zvezda]

Hi there to All!
Well, I'm new in this forum, though I visit it a lot. Congrats for it!
I have passed 2nd stage at NATS and will have my final interview by the end of february. As I live in Spain, it's really hard to visit an ATC facility in UK. I hope it's not an absolutely necessary thing to pass the final interview.
I still have several doubts about this final stage. For example, about the HR interview: what kind of questioins shoud I expect from them? Other doubts are what else do they ask us to do that day. Are there any other tests or exercises that day?
So for all of you who have passed, congratulations. For all of you who are having selection tests, good luck. And for all of you who haven't passed this time, no sadness, and try again!.:ok:

[watch_the_birdie]

The HR part of the final interview, I found, was quite similar to the one I got at the second stage. In this I mean that the questions were quite similar, such as "When have you worked well under pressure" or "Have you ever worked with a team in conflict?" (which I had to think about at first as I have an army background and briefly thought they were on about serving in a war zone like Iraq or something, but no, they meant a team that argued or had differences :P )

So on the whole, be prepared for those types of questions, so think ahead and try to think of skills you have gained from anything you have done in your life (doesn't have to be work related - I waffled on at one point about an trip to Jamaica, but it was the first relevant example to the question that I could think of! It got laughs). The main difference is that the HR person should hopefully be much more chatty back compared to your stage 2 interview, and will also have your application in front on the desk, and therefore know what you have written about yourself, past employment, hobbies, etc, and will probably partially aim questions around those. So if in doubt, re-read what you wrote, because on the whole, those will be the main things they know about you, as you have told them!

As for other tests or exercises on that day, there is only the group exercise, which is basically a board game, complete with dice and cards and stuff. Actually quite fun, you'll never finish it in the time they give you (about 20-30 mins I seem to remember), and don't panic about it. Everyone is in the same boat - you're working together, and there is no need to feel "in competition" at this stage. If you're good enough, they'll take you. All I can say is, don't just sit there and say or do nothing. Just play along in a chatty way, laugh about things getting difficult (but still try to overcome them), don't get worked up, and you can't go wrong.

You'll probably have a buffet lunch/tea after your interview, talk to the people there, and that's it. No sweat. I found stage 2 more daunting than stage 3. Easy peasy! Haha....I'm sure all will be fine. Good luck!

[NeoDude]

Agree with everything said above. There was 3 of us at my stage 3 and we were useless at the board game but we all made it through. It's more a test of communication skills and teamworking than anything else.

[prowle4763]

Hi All,

Apologies if this has already been covered on here but I've been unable to find anything.

Have been considering ATC as a career for little while, and this site has proved invaluable in finding information on it.
Having read my way through this thread I have heard many mentions of the personality questionare taken after stage 1.

Problem is that while Im sure I have the intelligence and apptitude learn what's required and do the job I don't have the first clue what the correct personality type is for the job.

Any suggestions?

[zvezda]

Thanks a lot for you answer watch the birdie!
It's been really useful. I hadn't found a lot of info about 3rd stage. And those tiscali pages don't work.

[stu_h]

In regards to the type of personality you need to have, personally I don't think there's a definitive answer. I've met some great, and entirely individual, people when I've visited units during my selection. All you can do is be yourself, and answer honestly.

Sure, if you go through the questionaire, you know the types of responses that wouldn't be brilliant (eg - I tend to flee from the first sign of a problem), but there are so many variations and check questions that you cannot really bluff through it.

Even with answering honestly, there will still be things that come up. In my stage 2, one part of my results apparently said I was optimistic. In my stage 3, the summary said I was totally a pessimist and could never see the positive in anything!

I guess there are certain traits that can be useful, but this is just my personal thoughts:

Do not fear the unknown, just be mindful of it and prepare for what you can. Be strong enough to know your own limits. Try and keep calm, and if things aren't going according to plan, come up with a new plan, not panic.
Be able to think logically ahead, rather than only being able to focus on the now.

There's no doubt tons of others.

Good Luck, and remember, even if things don't work out the first time, there's always the second (or third for me).

[Sammer30]

not sure if its still in the tests but there used to be a flat cutout of a square with different patterns on the pieces? is there an example in the tests they send to you? If there is then a little square rubber and a pencil can really help in the actual tests themselves ...not sure if thats cheating or using your noggin?

[watch_the_birdie]

I was sent this link in one of my emails from NATS for stage 1, and therefore I feel it's fairly important and relevant! :

http://natscareers.co.uk/docs/NATS_Practice_Leaflet2.pdf

and apparently there are similar ones on: http://www.shlgroup.com (seeing as this is the company that makes the tests used)

(If these links are not allowed to be posted due to copyright or privacy or something, then just please just remove it, but I assume it's public access if it's on the net and requires no login....)



As for the cubes and using a rubber...genius? - possibly. Practical? - no. I don't think you'll find in the test on the day you'll have enough time. You might though, I don't know - you might be some super human. Or it might be cheating and your rubber will be taken off you by the nasty supervisor :eek:... heehee

[Sammer30]

as i remember they only use 3 or 4 patterns and after each there is a series of different built cubes (only one/none of which can be built from this pattern) with something like a b c d or e none of these. Obviously the colouring in doesn't have to be to exact or to van goghs standards and should only take a couple of mins and then its just a case of rotating it to answer about 6 or so questions. just my two pence worth but those sites look useful!

Anyway don't stress too much if you don't pass first time as I don't believe they make the best assessment of what a controlled needs. So if at first you don't succeed...try again!

[prowle4763]

Cheers Stu_H,

Probably good advice all round I feel!

Fact is if I wasn't extremely confident I can do the job I wouldn't even be thinking about applying!

Prowle