SOUTHEND - 2

[Toxic Thrust]

I would echo others comments and a job well done. I had heard the rumours some months ago but would never have beleived it until it was actually announced.

Far too much time has been spent looking backwards, in 1967 this and in 1967 that. At last Southend airport is looking to the future. Stobart are laying the the basic building blocks for an essentially new airport and it will be a very different experience to what it was years ago. The job now is to continue with the upgrade. So now they will be looking at the RFFS service, the knackered old fuel farm and fuel delivery, a decent cleaning company, catering, maybe new handling agent. It will be interesting to see what concessions and suppliers appear on the scene and how quickly things develop

As for easyjet they have a very powerful marketing machine. I feel sure that they will be pushing SEN as the Olympic arrival point on every billboard at every location they operate at. They have 8 full months to market and sell tickets. The key is to maximise, perfect and show what can be done for the future beyond the Olympics. It will not be a bed of roses all the way. There will be some trial and error with routes. Hopefully the likes of Flybe will snap up any that just don't come up with the numbers for an A319. Southend will find its place in the market and is set to become one of the biggest aviation growth stories of the decade. One to nearly a hundred scheduled departures a week in less than two years is going to make some people pretty envious.

So congratulations to all my old friends working there. Wish I could join the party:ok:

[compton3bravo]

I do not want to be a killjoy but come on the Olympics is only on for TWO WEEKS and I cannot seeing it being the b and end all for all airports including Southend, Luton, Stansted etc. with some events not even being held in the London area. A lot of the seats at the Olympic Stadium are reserved for corporate etc. so they will be arriving first class into Heathrow, Gatwick on in their executive aircraft at Luton, Farnborough, Biggin, Stansted etc.
I am not having a go at Southend good luck to them (personally I think they will need all the luck that is going) but get real people it will take more than two weeks in the middle of next year to get Southend up to anything like the expected passenger numbers. Plus the problem of no early morning trains - that will have to be sorted out pronto.

[Expressflight]

I just love posts that begin "I don't want to be a killjoy but....."; you can almost smell the grapes souring in the background.

Easyjet's announcement has very little to do with the Olympics, except that event provides an excellent marketing 'hook', and has much more to do with offering a more pleasant alternative to STN and LTN, both of which can hardly be called a pleasurable passenger experience. All this talk of the STN Express taking 46 minutes and SEN being 53 minutes from Liverpool Street - oh my goodness what an appalling disadvantage that 7 minutes will prove to be be! No doubt the lack of trains very early and late in the day can be tackled in due course. The fact is that you will be able to get from aircraft to station platform in under 15 minutes or be driving out of the car park in the same time - that fact was one of the reasons that Ford's switch from STN to SEN was so successful from their point of view - is what will appeal to people. Much of the traffic will be inbound on the routes operated by the 'second level' airlines such as RE and A N Other and, again, the passenger experience will be much better than STN and LTN can offer. A few people in recent months sniffed at the 'fact' that SEN would not be able to offer anything in the way of onward connections, well that idea is starting to ring a little hollow as well now.

Those of us who have actually been working over the past couple of years with airports and airlines who were prime candidates to become SEN customers soon realised that we were onto something big and that is now starting to become public knowledge. Toxic Thrust's phrase "Southend ..... is set to become one the biggest aviation growth stories of the decade." isn't far off the mark.

[EI-BUD]

It's over to Easyjet now and they market the new services. Easyjet certainly is the right airline. Though I must say am surprised that Easyjet have set up a new base at an airport that is how can I say 'not tried and tested', though I think that it will do well.

The key will be in the way that Southend is marketed, in a way that emphasises its ease of use, quick transfer times to London centre and overall pricing. Easyjet's marketing of the place may help Aer Arann to get its routes better established in terms of putting Southend firmly on the map.

As regards the transfer of routes from STN I would guess that routes that are duplicated with Ryanair would be high on the list of priorities. However, If BFS gets a routes as is rumoured, I hope it is not a replacement of the STN route as this is a successful route and carried as many as 28k per month and would offer WW a leg up on the Belfast STN market, not sure EZY would want that either!!

Good luck to the new venture.

EI-BUD

[ara01jbb]

Southend has another rail advantage over STN, and it's nothing to do with being 7 minutes further from London. The Stansted Express has one of the stinkiest mark-ups of any airport rail link (Heathrow Express excluded). Southend Airport railway station is £10-£12 jouney from London, and isn't on its own dead-end spur (so it would be difficult for the rail operator to price it higher than adjacent stations).

Good luck SEN; I doubt very much all ten of those routes will survive beyond a year, but others will.

[EI-BUD]

Southend has another rail advantage over STN, and it's nothing to do with being 7 minutes further from London. The Stansted Express has one of the stinkiest mark-ups of any airport rail link (Heathrow Express excluded). Southend Airport railway station is £10-£12 jouney from London, and isn't on its own dead-end spur (so it would be difficult for the rail operator to price it higher than adjacent stations).




Food for thought for me on this one ara01jbb, I used to regularly fly DUB STN with FR but stopped using the route as on so many weekends the Stansted Express was cancelled and to boot the rail company would allow sale of train tickes (and at train ticket prices) on the day before the flight at a point when they knew that the line would be closed. Wont be falling into that trap again.

FR numbers on eg STN DUB have fallen drastically over the last few years from a peak of about 13 daily services down to around 7, there are lots of reasons why this has happened but I would suggest poor availability of trains on weekends turns some customers off using Stansted.

I do hope that this is not the case for Southend!!

EI-BUD

[SteveCoops]

But don't forget Southend does have two railway lines from London. A bus or 10 minute taxi ride will get you to the C2C line which can get you into london in just over 45 minutes (from e.g. Chalkwell or Leigh), so if there are train problems, you can always use the other line (they always accept each other's tickets too if the other has problems). I get the C2C line to London Fenchurch St every day for work and it's much nicer (and cheaper) than the NXEA service into Liverpool St.

There's a chance the train prices will fall on the NXEA line from SEN to London too as NXEA have lost the franchise so whoever takes over will have to compete with the cheaper, faster and air-conditioned C2C line.

The aircoach from Southend to Stansted is now £21 and Ryanair flights are creeping up so I now go STN to DUB much less often than I did a couple years back. If there's a SEN to DUB for under £100 return I'll be on that all the time! I've been using the rail and sail for £33 each way but that takes all day :)

Cheers,
Steve

[compton3bravo]

Sorry Expressflight but I must totally disagree with you. It is not about ''a pleasurable experience'' it is about making money. Just you watch if easy or any other airline are not succeeding they will pull the services (I am sure that they have written that into the contract with Stobart).
Also I prefer a nice Rioja thank you and not that French plonk!
Cheers.

[cockney steve]

Having emigrated from Southend in the mid-seventies, I'm not sure of the current situation, BUT

Southend has (d) TWO main-lines into London. Both were fast and reliable, though jam-packed in rush-hour.....one of the reasons I moved "oop north" to enjoy a less populous area.

Never remember meeting sir Freddie but Father was a good friend of "budgie" Jack Laker ,who once chauffeured us to Clacton to Southend and back in his Daimler Majestic Major. lovely family and didn't deserve the dirty tricks campaign that scuppered Skytrain.

[vulcanised]

Not sure what the occasion is but there's two Spitfires and a Lancaster in at SEN currently.

Not even heard the Spitfires but the Lancaster kindly flew low level over my garden on the downwind leg. Naturally, I had no photographic equipment to hand!

[FLYAIR10]

In the sixties,Southend used to be the THIRD busiest airport in the UK after LHR and MAN,with SEN-Ostend claimed to be the busiest air route in the world!
Maybe now that the airport is going to revive ,and passengers are going to discover the convenience of a regional London airport, also the old cross-channel route to Ostend/Bruges can be re-opened...:D If it is not Easyjet, Flybe or Aer Arran could jump on it (or Eastern airways or Manx2 or Aurigny....). It would be the fastest link between London area and Western Belgium,Northern France,Dutch province of Zeeland...:D:)

[Expressflight]

compton3bravo

Well that's odd, because I always thought if you offer your potential customers (in no matter what type of market you operate) a more "pleasurable experience" than they currently get elsewhere, the "making money" aspect tends to follow on. I've obviously been going wrong all these years.........
I've never tried telling my clients that I'm only interested in "making money" from them rather than offering them the best service I can, but perhaps I should ..... or perhaps not.
French plonk? Why drink that when you can have Premier Cru? Oh, sorry I forgot about the price you have to pay for it over there, so yes best stick to your toffee water.

[vulcanised]

I hear the Vulcan is due to visit SEN this afternoon (not landing).

Probably around mid-late afternoon.

[Phileas Fogg]

That should confuse the locals in to believing the SEN Vulcan is airworthy and airborne :)

[Captinbirdseye]

BBMF are at margate's big event.

A late post, but would like to congratulate SEN with easyjet's arrival! I hope that it will start something big at Southend! I think people are jumping the gun with transport links. I am more than sure that national express and easybus will be announcing links into London.

What are chances of charters doing 'W' patterns?

Cp be

[vulcanised]

The good news keeps coming!

Southend Airport: More routes lined up (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/9094621.Southend_Airport__More_routes_lined_up/?ref=mr)

[egnxema]

Southend - Ostend/Bruges with Easyjet/Flybe

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the sixties,Southend used to be the THIRD busiest airport in the UK after LHR and MAN,with SEN-Ostend claimed to be the busiest air route in the world!
Maybe now that the airport is going to revive ,and passengers are going to discover the convenience of a regional London airport, also the old cross-channel route to Ostend/Bruges can be re-opened... If it is not Easyjet, Flybe or Aer Arran could jump on it (or Eastern airways or Manx2 or Aurigny....). It would be the fastest link between London area and Western Belgium,Northern France,Dutch province of Zeeland...


FLYAIR10 - You have heard of that little eurostar thing havn't you?

[johnnychips]

Well the target to beat is 3.5 hours St Pancras-Bruges.

[Phileas Fogg]

There was a time when they tried a fast water craft, perhaps a Boeing jetfoil, service to/from London (Thames) and Ostend or Zeebrugge with the idea that one jumps on/off the craft and on/off a train to umpteen European destinations, there was obviously so many people wanting to travel between London and Flanders coast that service is buried in history and having lived/worked in Flanders for 2.5 years I can understand why nobody wants to go there and why OST is, basically, a cargo airport.

FLYAIR10 ... How about flying cars etc. in aircraft across the channel, that worked well historically also?

[Expressflight]

Ah, the nostalgia of the P & O Jetferries service!

It had a wonderful habit of sucking in debris on the Thames as it set off for Belgium and thus going tech. I say 'wonderful' because, as the air charter broker contracted to provide an aircraft to ferry the pax from SEN to OST when this happened, it supplied us with a nice little earner.

How we obtained the contract was interesting in itself. P & O used to use their in-house travel agency to obtain aircraft for this until one evening they had all gone home so they contacted us to see if we could help. It transpired that their agency often chartered 707s from Laker ex LGW, while we used TEA 737s ex SEN. Obviously the price saving was in the order of 50% so they used us in future. On one such flight TEA's Chief Pilot was in command of the positioning flight to SEN from BRU and decided he had never tried the 'max' setting on the autobrake and here was a good opportunity. The aircraft stopped extremely quickly ..... and remained stopped as the brakes had seized on one side. We had to send one of our Aztecs to LTN (in those days runway 15/33 still existed at SEN) to collect an engineer and a couple of wheels and brake units. I think the aircraft eventually departed at around sunrise! Oh, happy days.

[JSCL]

That news in Echo I'm not sure about. This whole JOIN thing seems a bit unclear, a bunch of startup airlines to form an alliance? Mhm, okay. Im sure Southend will be getting the stobart trucks and helicopter out for that....

[Expressflight]

I shouldn't write off JOIN as easily as that.

The people behind it are not idiots nor lacking industry experience. It's a different approach I'll grant you and not the best of economic times to be starting a new airline, but they do have the 'Southend factor' to help them. As is ever the case, the really important element is whether the routes they are proposing can be profitable and not so much how the airline is structured.

[Steviec9]

Briefly off topic.... but I did smile when I read this. As an Anglo-Belgian family, after we stopped using BAF SEN-OST, it was then onto Hoverlloyd coach service from London to Brussels or Jetfoil (when it relocated to Dover) and later on, Hoverspeed from Dover. The SRN4 hovercraft were a great ride for a youngster and made up for not going on Carvairs any more. But the ride onthe Jetfoil was supreme and the RMT (not that RMT, the Belgian ferry company) crew were fabulous. It smelt like Belgium as soon as you got on board - coffee and Belga cigarette smoke!

For those of us that travel to/from northern Flanders/Antwerp, flying still has the edge over Eurostar but, unfortunately, fares LCY/ANR are more than twice as expensive as Eurostar. The reality is 1hr into London, up to 1hr at St Pancras, 2 hrs to Brussels, up to 45 minutes changing trains and then another 40/50 minutes on a stopping service to Antwerp versus 1hr at airport and 50 mins flying time to ANR.

Back on topic...... :O

[maliyahsdad2]

Easyjet and Stobarts media footage, showing all of the current improvements including the new control tower, station, terminal and road diversion.
Videos Posted by London Southend: easyJet Media Footage [HD] | Facebook (http://tinyurl.com/6fcmslp)

[jabird]

StevieC -

Your post is perfectly on topic as a number of routes are being suggested between SEN & Belgium / Holland.

However, I disagree with your maths - are you assuming a start point of SEN, rather than central London for your 'one hour into London' - or just a generic point somewhere in the London burbs but well outside Zone 1?

Travel time to LCY? Our stereotypical diamond trader will be much closer to KX-SPI! Oddly enough, HSL Zuid doesn't seem to have made much difference, but I still get a total journey time of just over 3 hrs - and that is city centre (or as close as Parliament would allow) to the fantastic multi-level Antwerp Centraal station (let's assume our stereotypical diamond trader appreciates such beauty). If not, ANR is very close to the city centre but you still have all the hassles of going through security, taxiing etc.

3 hours is well within the zone where most people will switch to rail - Eurostar only tell us that they carry more people on LON - BRU & PAR than all the airlines together - they don't say much about other cities but I would suggest tht by the time the free transfer to anywhere in Belgium is thrown in, ES wins to ANR, Bruges etc too.

AMS is well within range for people who have a preference for rail travel, but otherwise air still seems to win, so it is a natural choice for SEN.

As for PAR? Doesn't work for LGW or STN - considering that SPI is a quick swing round the Circle/MetH&C from LPL St, my guess is that it wouldn't work at SEN either.

[Expressflight]

........ and the railway station (SIA) opens on 18th July.

[jabird]

Note - for OST comparison would be a flight to BRU then onward train v ES + local. FR axed STN-OST a good 5yrs ago?

[Steviec9]

I don't dispute what you say. My comments are purely emotional and reactionary rather than a strategic analysis. It just feels a lot quicker and a lot less hassle to fly to me. We use Eurostar without complaint and if I'm not rushing to/from work, it's fine. Clearing security and arrival etc. at LCY is rarely a problem and certainly not a problem in ANR which is a very small airport only handling a few CityJet flights daily - it would be very different if we were talking about large airports. Plane to car in ANR (including baggage collection if I have to) is normally achieved in less than 10 mins and I can wave to my family as I walk to the terminal! This is the joy of small regional airports like ANR and now SEN.

Whilst I adore the Centraal station in Antwerp, it's still easier to use Berchem if (like me and many others) you don't stay in the city centre. Deurne (the airport) is also easier to get to/from than Centraal. Fastest rail timings use Thalys services from Brussel-Zuid to Antwerpen-Centraal but I avoid these as (a) want to get off in Berchem and (b) it's a 'booked' service; I prefer the flexibility of using the IR/IC services - you can just travel when you want to.

My understanding is that the proposed through London-Amsterdam trains are unlikely to stop in Antwerp anyway. Although that may change I suppose - seems a bit bonkers.

NB - no free onward rail travel in Belgium anymore on a Eurostar ticket! You now have to pay a supplement at the time of booking.

[Expressflight]

I don't think I've seen ANR on any prospective airline's wish list from SEN and I've always considered it as more the possibility of Cityjet transferring a couple of their 5 x daily LCY services to SEN.

My logic for that firstly is the London Gateway Port now under construction which could generate shipping related traffic from ANR. Secondly, flight times and DOCs would be considerably less to SEN than LCY and lastly, slot restraints at LCY may mean Cityjet could better use a couple for new destinations when/if their LCY network continues to grow.

I checked out fares on Eurostar for a couple of dates late July and these were €308 and €286 for semi-flex return travel. I reckon I would allow 3hrs30min for the journey allowing for the change at Brussels, so there's not much in it timewise nor costwise probably.

[jabird]

Ef,

I would imagine that the LCY-ANR route can only work by offering a decent frequency - go down to 2-3 / day and people will switch to ES+conx. SEN is too far from Central London to attract a route like this that relies as Steviec9 says on city airports at both ends.

Steviec9 - I stand corrected on the free transfer. But my way of thinking is always train first - haven't driven now for nearly a year but that's another story! So yes, plane to car @ ANR is indeed very easy.

I agree it would seem like madness to run ES to AMS & not stop @ ANR - presumably not RTM either? My initial thinking was this might be to do with ppt control, but afaik Eurostar takes domestic pax between Paris & Calais, so why not take pax between AMS & LIL?

Going back to SEN, I would still say that in the region 'reachable' by ES & conx (let's say 4hrs), AMS is the most likely destination, but DUS or CGN might be possible too?

[lanternrouge]

ANR doesn't have the infrastructure or the runway length to handle anything from EZY or SEN. And there is a very active local environmental lobby against further expansion of the airport due to it's immediate proximity to residential areas.

Cityjet's main selling point to LCY flights is Canary Wharf on the doorstep. Can't see them turning to SEN as a preferred destination, except for diverts.

[Charlie Roy]

I work in Brussels.
I live in Ostend.

Thinking of the last year:

I needed to travel to Romford for a funeral
I needed to travel to Stratford for work
I travelled to central London for a weekend break
A friend and his wife from Walthamstow (East London) came to visit Ostend
My cousin and his girlfriend living near Liverpool Street train station (London) came to visit Ostend
My aunt and 4 friends from Romford came to Bruges, and briefly Ostend


All these trips were with the Eurostar, most on the expensive side of cheap.
If there was an airlink from Southend to Ostend it would be all my Christmases coming at once. Although I admit I would still sometimes travel to London at the end of my work day (in Brussels) with the Eurostar, but otherwise be an active user of the service.

That said I think an Easyjet A319 daily on this route would be too much capacity. Flybe or Aer Arann would be better suited.

[Expressflight]

jabird

I think on reflection you're probably right about SEN-ANR, but one never knows. SEN-CGN is very definitely on the cards for obvious reasons.

[pabely]

I'm afraid I concur, Flybe might have been a better fit, were they courted, will EZY fill a A319, if not then 2012 hello, 2013 goodbye.....?

[Steviec9]

Expressflight/jabird

I never seriously expected SEN/ANR - I was just musing. However, if I got to start up 'MyWish' airline (slogan "Makes crap commercial sense but I wanna go there..."), ANR would be on it. :ok:

[jabird]

Ef, are you talking about a certain motor manufacturer with large plants at both ends of the SEN-CGN route?

Have friends who worked for them, but they had their own airline doing STN-CGN. Has that gone?

CR - we can all have our personal wish list for routes - mine would be direct CVT-NEV but I think that could only be done in a learjet!

As for the cost, I do wonder how much ES are taking advantage of their effective monopoly and how much that might change with open access. I think SEN - OST is a long shot even if it would make a lovely filler for the likes of BE. I doubt Bruges will ever see direct ES, whereas ANR / RTM are possible on the way to AMS. However, the beancounters would still look at BRU first over OST, as it is a much bigger market, but they'd then say it is hard to compete against direct ES / rivals - so we're back to square 1!

[johnnychips]

NB - no free onward rail travel in Belgium anymore on a Eurostar ticket! You now have to pay a supplement at the time of booking.


Unless this change has just been announced, I understood it was only if you used DB ICE or Thalys. Didn't pay one last Saturday.

[LTNman]

Just watched the video. The runway seems a tad narrow and does not appear to be the standard width of most airport runways. Also the first taxiway shown also seems very narrow. Will the new ILS be CAT 3? If not fog and cross wind landings could all affect Easyjet’s Southend operations.

[WHBM]

I agree it would seem like madness to run ES to AMS & not stop @ ANR - presumably not RTM either? My initial thinking was this might be to do with ppt control, but afaik Eurostar takes domestic pax between Paris & Calais, so why not take pax between AMS & LIL?
It's the sheer cost to Eurostar of airport-style security at each station which they are required to provide for anyone travelling through the Channel Tunnel at the boarding station. They judge demand from Antwerp and Rotterdam makes this not worthwhile. For the same reason, after the station had ben physically built at Stratford International in London for them, Eurostar decided not to serve there due to this cost. Ashford in Kent was a close miss (proposed to close to Eurostar due to this, but finally retained). The security requirement is government imposed as part of the Channel Tunnel oversight.

[Barnaby the Bear]

Why are people from LTN so afraid of this announcement?
Its only a bit of competition. :}:}

[LTNman]

Don't think anyone at LTN is afraid of competition and having a narrow runway, half width taxiways and I suspect a mere CAT 1 ILS does not bother easyjet, as they can easily divert to another London airport when Southend is out of limits.

Easyjet has just left Belfast City Airport with its restrictions so we will have to see how Southend does in the coming years and whether Stansted tries to get Easyjet back in force.

[Expressflight]

LTNman

The runway width is 37m (rather than the 'standard' 45m) and is the same as at SOU where it certainly doesn't seem to cause any problems, and all taxiway widths are 15m (Code C). The runway width actually proved something of an advantage in getting the runway extension approved as it precludes both commercial widebody ops and the possibility of any future further runway extension. These facts kept sensible opposition to the plans to a minimum.

The ILS will be CAT I with 'pulse' approach lighting and centreline lighting, with an OCH of 150ft I seem to recall being the planned number. It's extremely rare at SEN to have a cloudbase below 200ft and its fog record is also very good. LTN obviously needs CAT III with its persistent on-the-deck cloudbase and frequently low met vis conditions.

Easyjet are obviously fully aware of the situation.

jabird

The Ford STN-CGN was switched to SEN in Summer 2006 (I think it was) and operated twice daily with their own RJ100 crewed by Flightline. The service was withdrawn on the instructions of Ford USA in December 2008 at the time of the major US motor manufacturers' near meltdown. This coincided with Flightline's demise. Since then Ford use the Germanwings STN-CGN scheduled service and the edict still stands that they are not allowed to operate their own charter service. Thus any future SEN-CGN would operate as a scheduled service with Ford buying space on it. It will need a jet on the route at Fords' insistence, so I understand, and a plan exists to use F100 equipment.

[LTNman]

It's extremely rare at SEN to have a cloudbase below 200ft and its fog record is also very good. LTN obviously needs CAT III with its persistent on-the-deck cloudbase and frequently low met vis conditions.

Well I can't argue about that. Hope the snow stays away, seem to remember that Southend was shut for days a few years ago when the man with his broom needed new bristles.:}

[Expressflight]

I think your description of that particular snow event just about sums it up. Easyjet A319 LGW diversion stranded for 3 days I seem to recall. But we don't talk about that now of course!

[Tagron]

From your description I assume the ILS and associated lighting will permit operations to landing minima of DH 200ft and RVR 550m. I agree that 200ft is unlikely to be an issue, but 550m RVR certainly will cause problems from time to time. SEN's fog record may be good, but it's not that good. It may not suffer from LTN's topographical issues, but it experiences radiation fogs like most other UK airports and also coastal advection fogs.

A pity therefore that the "new" airport will not support Cat2/3 operations. Presumably this was investigated and rejected - on the grounds of cost, or site limitations and practicability ? Of course it can be argued that LCY and SOU have managed very well on Cat 1 only.

Crosswinds should not be an issue. In my experience the 757 was restricted only on a 30m wide runway, not 37m as at SEN. The A320 had no such restriction and I would expect the A319 to be similar.

[Expressflight]

Tagron

Yes, DH will obviously depend upon legislation and company SOPs but the OCH at least shouldn't the deciding factor as it would be without those improvements.

I don't think CAT II is possible for technical reasons rather than cost, although I'm not privvy to that information. The IRVR system will be capable of meeting sub CAT I minima of less than 550m if the airline's fleet is so equipped, but I can't say I've ever come across that in practice. Departure minima can of course be considerably less.

There's no getting away from the fact that there will be diversions from time to time but not to an operationally significant extent I would suggest.

[jabird]

WHBM,

There was a story the yesterday about a Moroccon being picked up because he had two tickets - one to Lille, then one from Lille to London. Does that mean he wouldn't have had to go through the security if he showed his first ticket?

I have used the Spanish AVE a few times where they also have security screening - but are there also border control agents at the boarding point for ES - or just at SPI? (Should really cut to rail forum!)

[Croydon Airport]

jabird,

passengers making intra-Schengen zone journeys on Eurostar from Brussels or Paris to Lille or Calais-Fréthun still have to go through the security and passport checks at Brussels Midi or Paris Nord, including passing through both the Schengen zone exit check run by either the Belgian authorities in Brussels or the French in Paris and then the UK Border Agency checkpoints (such outposts exist at both Brussels Midi and Paris Nord, and also Lille and Calais-Fréthun, though the latter two aren't really relevant to this discussion).

The UK Border Agency check for such passengers is apparently a bit contentious with the Belgians in particular, as it effectively acts as a border checkpoint within the Schengen zone and furthermore is operated by a state from outside the Schengen zone (the UK), but nonetheless it remains in place - it basically means that any passengers travelling from Brussels (or Paris) to Lille or Calais-Fréthun needs to show their national ID card to the UKBA (something they wouldn't have to do if travelling on trains other than the Eurostar).

I don't know about this specific incident, but at a guess the Moroccan either didn't have any suitable ID, or their ID was deemed suspicious when they were going through the securoty and passport/ID checks before boarding in Brussels or Paris.

[Barnaby the Bear]

Regarding winter operations. The Airport have recently invested significantly in new drainage and environmental controls. That will enable the use of de-icing :ok:

[Aero Mad]

Train services cancelled 'due to heat'
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-13926651)
The Southend to Liverpool Street line is also hit with a total of 35 trains affected.

Sounds like we need summer resilience as well...

[WHBM]

passengers making intra-Schengen zone journeys on Eurostar from Brussels or Paris to Lille or Calais-Fréthun.
Just to explain how this one works (I know it's nothing to do with Southend, although the Immigration Officers there might be interested).

Trains headed for Britain used to only be allowed to carry passengers who were heading for Britain, and who were immigration checked by UK officials (who are resident in the European cities) before departure. Once in the train there are no further checks any more.

The only trains which stop at Lille or Calais are those coming from Brussels. Trains from Paris do not stop there. Because there were poor services from these places to Brussels, passengers from them TO Brussels were allowed to use them, which was no problem, but had to use lesser trains coming back again.

As a concession, the UK authorities then allowed that provided passengers were properly eligible to enter the UK, as of course the vast majority of those travelling from Brussels to Lille would be, they could use these trains, but they must be checked by the UK staff for eligibility, in case they stay on the train.

The only boarding station this affects is Brussels. All passengers boarding there are checked by UK staff. So for example someone from Russia travelling to Lille with a Schengen visa but not a UK one would not be allowed to travel by Eurostar, and would have to take the slow train.

There's no particular recheck of tickets after departing Lille or Calais, so having two tickets does not get you anywhere.

If the Belgians do not like the concession it can be withdrawn at any time.

Ths is really nothing to do with the lack of Eurostar boarding points in Antwerp, Rotterdam, Stratford or elsewhere - the cost per passenger of providing the separate security checks is the key issue there that makes them not worthwhile. I really do doubt the viability of the forthcoming Amsterdam service - the Brussels one is already marginal, the only good money is made on Paris.

[jabird]

WHBM,

Ths is really nothing to do with the lack of Eurostar boarding points in Antwerp, Rotterdam, Stratford or elsewhere - the cost per passenger of providing the separate security checks is the key issue there that makes them not worthwhile. I really do doubt the viability of the forthcoming Amsterdam service - the Brussels one is already marginal, the only good money is made on Paris.

It is perhaps odd that security checks are still in place on the Spanish AVE when it was a local train that was hit. I know this issue is about borders, but both require personnel - in fact a security check would be more costly as machines are needed too.

I would have thought that much of the viability issue was down to train length - the three capitals sets have a whopping 18 coaches on each unit. We're talking here about F50s from LCYvSEN - can you imagine LHR-BRU on an A380! I know this is partly down to a safety rule, but that is subject to review. Otherwise services from AMS (&RTM) would join servies from CGN (&Liege) at Brussels Midi.

[vulcanised]

Perhaps it's time you chaps continued in a Eurostar thread?

[Jamie-Southend]

Just bumping this thread back up the ranks, and picking some of you knowledgeable lots grey matter, I have been asked the following by a friend....

With SEN's expansion, this young lady is looking for employment, Ground based, not crew, so with Airlines such as Easyjet and the others mentioned, is it prudent for her to approach them directly, or do you think everything with regard to handling etc, would go through Stobarts ?

I have told her, just at the moment it's early days.


J

[vulcanised]

I would suggest all of them. If she gets more than one offer she can pick the best.

[Jamie-Southend]

Quite amusing because SEN's runway can't even take a wide body,

ah, apart from that L1011 we had land. ;)

(notice i only put land)

J

[Phileas Fogg]

Jamie,

I've known an A300 arrive/depart SEN also but there is one hell of a difference between public transport flights and maintenance ferry (non public transport) flights.

The UK registered A300 was granted CAA dispensation on the proviso that it was operated by a training commander and who had completed some test landings at another airfield first .... Were it African registered then who cares :)

[LEWIS APPLEBY]

I understand that Southend Airport station opens on 18th July and the first train to stop there in service will be at 0405 from Southend Victoria towards London, with the first arrival from London at 0632

[LTNman]

Which is too late for any departure before 07:15

[Expressflight]

Well, as there aren't any departures that early at present it doesn't matter, so your point is.....?

[Chitty]

when easyjet start there will be early morning departures

[davidjohnson6]

Perhaps Easyjet / Southend airport might be able to persuade the train operator to run an earlier train come spring 2012 ?
The train from London to Luton airport has plenty of passengers at 5 am - with almost everyone on the train travelling with some sort of luggage.

It took Stansted Express a while to realise, but they manage to run trains from London very early in the morning as well. The coach from London to Stansted is usually well patronised about 4 am

Alternatively, perhaps a company like National Express or Easybus might figure out that it's worth running a couple of coaches from London Victoria to Southend airport, with a couple of pick-ups in east London at about 4 am, and pay for an advertisement on either the Easyjet or Southend airport websites to publicise it ?

Come to think of it, National Express runs coaches during the night between Liverpool Street and Stansted, and accept Stansted Express tickets on their coaches. Yes, it's a bit of an overpriced swizz, but I imagine someone at National Express will want to give the same thing a trial at Southend.

If I was a commercial director at Southend airport, I'd be pushing quite hard to encourage early morning and late night transport from the airport

[Expressflight]

I'm sure the SEN management will be pushing the train operator to introduce an earlier train from next Spring and there's no reason to assume that won't happen.
It's worth bearing in mind that it's a condition of the runway extension planning consent that no passenger flight can be scheduled to depart SEN before 06:30, so one train arriving from London at around 05:40 is all that would be needed.

[Steviec9]

There's also the issue of slot allocation and London TMA problems, or lack of them, at SEN for EZ.

Given that EZ will be the main player and have entered into a commercial agreement with Stobarts, I would doubt that they're going to be forced to use the cheap (but pax unfriendly) early slots, as is the case at some other larger and busier airports in the region. Notwithstanding airframe usage, EZ should be able to timetable their first outbounds at a slightly more humane time, making them even more attractive than the alternatives.

[JSCL]

Posted on Southend's FacePPRuNe today:

London Southend
The new railway station is OPEN!

[Skipness One Echo]

notwithstanding airframe usage, EZ should be able to timetable their first outbounds at a slightly more humane time, making them even more attractive than the alternatives.
You mean EZY or U2, EZ fly B747s which are unilkely to be seen at Southend being Evergreen International Airlines.
The reason some locos depart at Dark O'clock is that allows a whole other rotatioin to be squeezed in during operating hours, if they don't do this, costs creep up and Joe Public realises this and trys a different loco making a false economy.

[VIKING9]

The reason some locos depart at Dark O'clock is that allows a whole other rotatioin to be squeezed in during operating hours, if they don't do this, costs creep up and Joe Public realises this and trys a different loco making a false economy.

One reason Debonair went bust. Poor scheduling such as their daily LTN-BCN W pattern through LGW. Mid summer, leave LTN at 0800z when the others are on their way back or heading to the next destination !! Same with CIA, leave LTN 1015z. Madness.

[vulcanised]

the first train to stop there in service will be at 0405


Not an ideal time to celebrate with fireworks and a brass band.

[LTNman]

...which is coming from the wrong direction

[maliyahsdad2]

from another forum.

An Easyjet Airbus A319 will be visiting the airport next Monday for the media launch of next years flights they will be announcing 5 more destinations to add to the Barcelona, Faro & Ibiza routes already announced I am unable to disclose them until that date sorry!!.
The remaining destinations will be announced at a later date.

[JSCL]

Didn't they already send a plane for the media launches!?

[maliyahsdad2]

Some Easyjet Southend routes go on sale next tuesday, I suppose Easyjet want to get the best exposure possible.

[virginblue]

The reason some locos depart at Dark O'clock is that allows a whole other rotatioin to be squeezed in during operating hours, if they don't do this, costs creep up and Joe Public realises this and trys a different loco making a false economy.

One reason Debonair went bust. Poor scheduling such as their daily LTN-BCN W pattern through LGW. Mid summer, leave LTN at 0800z when the others are on their way back or heading to the next destination !! Same with CIA, leave LTN 1015z. Madness.

Although this has changed to some extent. I remember when the German Locos set up shop at CGN a couple of years, the first departure wave was at 6 a.m. Even though public transport and road access to the airport is quite good so that passengers could make it easily to the airport at, say 4:30 or 5 a.m., departures were laterp pushed forward to approx. 7 am. Nowadays, there are hardly any departures before 6:45 a.m.

[Red Four]

From Air Transport News (http://www.airtransportnews.aero/article.pl?id=31271)

easyJet seats on sale from London Southend Airport
Source: easyJet
26/07/2011
easyJet today announced the destinations that it will operate to and from London Southend Airport, from April 2012. With seats on sale later today, passengers will have a choice to fly to Amsterdam, Alicante, Barcelona, Belfast, Faro, Ibiza, Malaga and Mallorca.

[maliyahsdad2]

Here we come! easyJet flights from Southend to Malaga, Mallorca and Alicante (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/9159016.Here_we_come__easyJet_flights_from_Southend_to_Malag a__Mallorca_and_Alicante/)

[Powerjet1]

Flights now on sale.

[tommyc2005]

It is fantastic to actually see these new routes on sale.

There does appear to be a gap in the schedule between 12:45-16:50 every day except Sunday, so an off-peak route to somewhere like Edinburgh could fit in there. If there are to be ten destinations as mentioned in the initial press release, at least one further destination must be served by a non-based unit.

There will also probably be some minor shuffling of existing routes, as the Saturday IBZ is scheduled to depart at 17:00 while the a/c to operate it appears to arrive at 17:10, and Mon-Fri evenings there is only 15 mins between AMS arriving and BFS departing.

[EI-BUD]

Would love to see Easyjet serve Dublin from Southend!!! Unlikely though.

[Nakata77]

Sen-ams
1234567
12345-7

sen-bfs
1234567
12345-7

sen-bcn
1234567

sen-alc
1234567

sen-fao
1234567
-----6-

sen-ibz
1-3--6-

sen-pmi
-2-45-7

sen-agp
1234567

total flights per week on sale: 62

remaining flights per week to be placed on sale: 8

note: Ibz not bookable past june, still loading?

[VIKING9]

One assumes they return to SEN also :ugh:

I'll get me coat....

[Barling Magna]

Great to see the airport coming to life. I assume the Aer Arann passengers are pleased with their nice new railway station to speed them to London? Youtube has several videos of the station; here is the best of the bunch IMHO:

‪Video Tour of the Brand New Southend Airport Station‬‏ - YouTube
Today's the day for the next SAEN appeal. Fingers crossed they'll get theirs burned....

[maliyahsdad2]

http://www.haystackonline.com/content/cmsimages/strip-press-ads-city-6339.jpg-710x400-10436.jpg

[JSCL]

Yeah noticed the new logo - also on the SEN Facepprune page there's a video with Sally gunnell and Easyjet lady and also the more recent PR pictures!

Oh the irony of that train advert.

EaSySEX.

[BAladdy]

EZY flight from SEN are at present available to book only up until 24 June 2012.

Bookings for travel after 24th June will be able to be made shorty

Alicante (Route Launches 05th April 2012)

EZY7417 SEN 07:10 ALC 10:35 319 7
EZY7417 SEN 10:20 ALC 13:45 319 x7

EZY7418 ALC 11:20 SEN 13:05 319 7
EZY7418 ALC 14:20 SEN 16:05 319 x7

Amsterdam (Route Launches 02nd April 2012)

EZY7401 SEN 07:30 AMS 09:30 319 x7
EZY7403 SEN 13:00 AMS 15:00 319 7
EZY7405 SEN 16:10 AMS 18:10 319 x67
EZY7405 SEN 16:20 AMS 18:20 319 7

EZY7402 AMS 09:55 SEN 09:55 319 x7
EZY7404 AMS 15:30 SEN 15:30 319 7
EZY7406 AMS 18:40 SEN 18:40 319 x67
EZY7406 AMS 18:50 SEN 18:50 319 7

Barcelona (Route Launches 02nd April 2012)

EZY7383 SEN 10:25 BCN 13:25 319 x7
EZY7385 SEN 13:40 BCN 16:45 319 7

EZY7384 BCN 14:00 SEN 15:25 319 x7
EZY7386 BCN 17:20 SEN 18:45 319 7

Belfast International (Route Launches 02nd April 2012)

EZY715 SEN 07:00 BFS 08:15 319 x7
EZY717 SEN 13:25 BFS 14:40 319 7
EZY719 SEN 19:05 BFS 20:20 319 x67
EZY719 SEN 19:15 BFS 20:30 319 7

EZY716 BFS 08:40 SEN 10:00 319 x7
EZY718 BFS 15:05 SEN 16:25 319 7
EZY720 BFS 20:45 SEN 22:00 319 x67
EZY720 BFS 20:55 SEN 22:10 319 7

Faro (Route Launches 05th April 2012)

EZY7361 SEN 06:30 FAO 09:20 319 D
EZY7365 SEN 16:10 FAO 19:00 319 6

EZY7362 FAO 09:50 SEN 12:45 319 D
EZY7366 FAO 19:35 SEN 22:30 319 6

Ibiza (Route Launches 01st May 2012)

EZY7447 SEN 17:00 IBZ 20:20 319 1,3,6

EZY7448 IBZ 20:55 SEN 22:35 319 1,3,6

Palma (Route Launches 01st May 2012)

EZY7421 SEN 07:00 PMI 10:20 319 7
EZY7423 SEN 17:00 PMI 20:20 319 2,4,5

EZY7422 PMI 10:55 SEN 12:35 319 7
EZY7424 PMI 20:55 SEN 22:35 319 2,4,5

Malaga (Route Launches 01st May 2012)

EZY7435 SEN 16:50 AGP 20:40 319 D

EZY7436 AGP 21:15 SEN 23:10 319 D

[frostbite]

I have been contacted by a lady who wishes to get in touch with anyone who worked at Aviation Traders around the 1960s and knew her grandfather, Cecil 'Spick' Spicer.

Unfortunately I can't help, but perhaps someone reading knew him?

PM me if so, and I will pass on your details.

[Mayfly1]

Hi, anyone know what the plans are with SEN for Aer Arann?
Picked this up on Anna Aero where Southend say "we have a five-year agreement with Aer Arann who have indicated that they would like to base an aircraft at the airport in the future. They could introduce five or six new routes in the near future and that would deliver about 300,000 annual passengers"
This would imply not one but a few aircraft to be based in SEN and more?What routes would they fly, and how would they handle the maintenance /crewing side ?

[mikkie4]

have just read an artical on another web site,bosses at sen are hinting about charter flights using boeing 757s,what sort of destinations/passenger numbers given the length of the new runway,could a plane like that hold

[davidjohnson6]

757 charter flights sounds like running before certainty that one can walk.
It would be surprising if there weren't any teething issues in April 2012 when the orange brigade start operating at SEN

Perhaps a few months of letting some A319s and any other similiar or smaller sized aircraft bed in and operate in a stable manner would be worthwhile first ?

[LEWIS APPLEBY]

Back in the day I recall a Canada 3000 757 which had been on maintenance going direct from SEN to Toronto with just the crew on board, and it only used about half the runway to get airborne so maybe with a full pax load 757's could fly to European destinations once the runway is extended. I think the real problem is the runway and taxiway widths and ground facilties e.g. steps and the like.

[Cool Wavy NG738]

I used to work at Southend Airport 1983-1986 and I can remember Hispania Caravelles heading out to Malaga non-stop, fully loaded, happily blasting the sandbank over the railway line and into back gardens whilst holding on the brakes for a runway 24 departure. However you couldn't quite see where they rotated, bet the roof tiles of the church got dislodged a few times! I think a 757 would be ok, no different to BY operating out of Southampton for a short flight to Palma a few years back.

[maliyahsdad2]

Southend Airport expansion clears final hurdle (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/9197838.Airport_expansion_clears_final_hurdle/)

[LEWIS APPLEBY]

I see from the inSAEN protesters website their legal eagles are considering the merits of taking thier objections to the European courts. As the new road is all but finished does anyone know if the work to extend the runway has actually stated yet?

[maliyahsdad2]

extension enabling works have started, diggers in the vicinity of the extension area.

They still have to do some prep work before they can actually start the extension itself I believe.

[LEWIS APPLEBY]

Thanks for the update

[maliyahsdad2]

Signs have gone up, Eastwoodbury lane will be closed permanently at the church from 1st September, So the extension will start in earnest from then ( a lot of work happening already)

[GrahamK]

New route for Southend starting October 31st, a German airline called "Jetisfaction" launching daily flights to Muenster using Saab 340s.

Never heard of this airline? :confused:

[Oldtimer1]

Its a startup airline thats had several non starts before. As far as I can tell no flights started this March.

The company will link Münster-Osnabrück with Zürich and Poznan from 27 March 2011 with a 48-seat ATR42. The company originally planned to launch scheduled services between Bremen City Airport, Berlin Tegel and Cologne last summer, using a single Beech 1900D turboprop. In December 2010, the company also announced the intended acquisition of a 50-seat Fokker 50

Airline Start-Ups: Jetisfaction plans new airline operation - Blog - FleetWatch - Aviation & Aerospace Blogs - FlightGlobal (http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/groups/fleet_and_orders_gossip_shop/blog/archive/2011/03/02/airline-start-ups-jetisfaction-plans-new-airline-operation.aspx)

[Spitfire boy]

See here: Flight booking - Jetisfaction - The art of flying (http://www.jetisfaction.com/en/scheduled-flights/flight-booking/)

[Wessex Boy]

This airport extension is bitter-sweet for me, my Grandfather was a Director of Channel Airways and they fought during the '60s/early '70s to extend the runway so they could operate the Tridents & Comets from Southend, but failed so had to open a costly new base at Stansted, which meant they were over-stretched when the oil Crisis hit in '73 and contributed their downfall.

I will have to fly-in there when it is all finished to see what remains of the old Channel Hangars

[JSCL]

SEN-FMO depart Nov 2nd return nov 3rd is just under €100 all in? Nice. But I think I'll wait out to see if it takes off.

[Expressflight]

Jetisfaction started scheduled services from Munster/Osnabruck to Zurich and Poznan last year with B1900s leased on an ACMI basis, but these were suspended after a short time. Both these routes are due to recommence on 5 September 2011 using Saab 340's supplied by Skytaxi of Poland on an ACMI basis, with the FMO-SEN route being added from 31 October.

The FMO-SEN-FMO route is bookable as a once-daily service, although departure times vary somewhat, departing 10:15 FMO on M W F, 06:25 Tu Sa and 18:45 Th Su. Presumably this is to fit in with the other route commitments. There's a 30 minute turnround scheduled at SEN each day and return fares start at 97.98 Euros inclusive. I assume the 31 October start date is to coincide with the closure of the Air Berlin FMO-STN service.

It's rather strange that although seats are bookable on Jetisfaction's website, there is no announcement there of this new route.

[Cyrano]

It's rather strange that although seats are bookable on Jetisfaction's website, there is no announcement there of this new route.

There is now, it seems, on their news page. They just haven't got round to updating their home page, route map, etc. (but they apparently fly to Wroclaw as well as Poznan, and don't have that on the route map either).

[maliyahsdad2]

London Southend Airport have said they do not know of this proposal on their faceb.o.o.k page

[JSCL]

I can't see anything in Southend FacePPRuNe?

[Expressflight]

It was probably just a matter of Jetisfaction being a bit keen to get the route on sale and perhaps there are a few details to be finalised still with SEN.

The 97.98 Euros inclusive return fares on offer also include 25 kg hold baggage - very good value I'd say.

[maliyahsdad2]

JSCL, the question and reply have been removed .

[Chitty]

the aircraft operating the Jetisfaction flight will be an Beech 1900D

[Expressflight]

Chitty

I don't know where you got that idea from, 'cos it's incorrect.

The route will commence with the Saab 340 and next Spring an ATR42-500 will be introduced.

[virginblue]

If I am not mistaken, Jetisfaction are no airline, they are just a ticket seller contracting other airlines to operate their flights (Manx2.com style).

They are (or at least were) part of this "JOIN Regional Airlines" concept which pretty much focuses on SEN.

Operations and Fleet « JOIN Regional Airlines (http://www.joinairlines.com/operations-and-fleet)

[JSCL]

Found this - Air-Britain : Beech 1900D (http://www.abpic.co.uk/popup.php?q=1307527)

Seems To be Jetisfaction.com branded in for maintenance on August 18th of this year. 1900-D as previously mentioned by someone.

[Expressflight]

I believe Jetisfaction intend obtaining their own AOC by next Spring, operating ATR42 equipment. The B1900D has been disposed of recently and long-established operator Skytaxi of Poland will be supplying the Saab 340s on an ACMI basis in the interim. There are a number of examples of start-up airlines beginning in this fashion, so I don't see it necessarily as being the concern which virgin blue seems to be suggesting.

I don't think there is quite a parallel with Manx 2, as they seem to have no intention of obtaining their own AOC and use multiple carriers to operate their routes, rather than just one.

Jetisfaction is no longer included in JOIN Regional Airlines plans.

[virginblue]

That's one of the Beech 1900D Orange Aircraft Leasing has been operationg for a couple of years. As said, this aircraft was leased by Jetisfaction for the short lived flights earlier this year (and for some promo work, hence the stickers). The recently announced flights will not be operated by Orange Aircraft Leasing, but by Skytaxi form Poland.

[shamrock7seal]

Notice a DUB debate on easyJet thread. In my opinion the most appropriate carrier for SEN-DUB would be either Flybe or Aer Lingus Regional using 70 seat turboprops. I doubt easyJet would be able to sustain the bloodbath that Ryanair would undoubtedly unleash at STN (DUMPING CAPACITY AND FARES) up the road until easyJet pull off any SEN-DUB.

Ryanair seem willing to avoid Flybe DUB services from other regional airports: SOU (they came off BOH-DUB), EXT, CWL (despite BRS services) etc etc

[virginblue]

Jetisfaction is no longer included in JOIN Regional Airlines plans.

Maybe JOIN should update its website? There are still a couple of routes from FMO on the route map.

[EI-BUD]

Ryanair seem willing to avoid Flybe DUB services from other regional airports: SOU (they came off BOH-DUB), EXT, CWL (despite BRS services) etc etc

shamrock seal, this is very true, Fr avoid BE like the plague, and I would go a step further in saying that when FR launch attacks on airlines like Aer Arann (as in the past, and again is FR do start MAN ORK as has been suggested) it is to avoid competing with an airline who operate often at higher frequency with a sustainable size aircraft that can pay its way and also offer the business traveller a good schedule.

BE is one to watch as far as FR is concerned, I think BE know what they are in terms of being a regional airline and rarely deviate from that. Dash 8 Q4 is very cost effective and on thin routes alot more effective than a 738 in this regard.

Ei-BUD

[Expressflight]

The Jetisfaction FMO-SEN route is now bookable on the airline's website as being double-daily M W F and daily all other days of the week.

[JTSB]

I didn't see a news link to this story posted anywhere on here, despite the fact it was published in the local rag over a week ago. Couple of interesting little tidbits in there...

How Alan planned easyJet's move to Southend airport (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/9211276.How_Alan_planned_easyJet_s_move_to_Southend_airport/)

Focus groups held which gave positive feedback about catchment area and wider usage; in the process of finalising 2 more routes to take the number up to 10; and the possibility of further routes if the initial 10 prove successful.

It's looking good.

[virginblue]

How do the railway fares from SEN to Liverpool Street compare to the fares on the Stansted Express?

[ELondonPax]

Liverpool St to STN.
Timetabled at 45 to 55 minutes. Trains every 15 mins most of the day.
Single fare £21.
(And if you want to have fun, google the fare to Audley End and "permitted routes"...)

Liverpool St to SEN
Timetabled at 50 to 55 minutes. Trains every 10 to 20 minutes during daytime, more in rush hour, less in quieter times.
Single fare £14.30

[virginblue]

As or the Jetisfaction B1900D or Saab 340 discussion:

http://skyliner-aviation.de/photos/SP-MRC.jpg

[JSCL]

Fugly is all I can say.

[Tagron]

I see from the Carlisle thread that Stobart have tabled documents with Carlisle City Council proposing to commence scheduled services from CAX to Southend , Dublin and Belfast. SEN would be the first of these, with the aim of starting "before the Olympics."

[jensdad]

Fugly is all I can say.

I think its a hybrid colour scheme. I definitely saw that colour scheme on a spanish SF340 at Seville about 8 years ago. Cant remember who it was though....

[Yak97]

Anorak ON

Try LagunAir of Spain

Anorak OFF

[EGMC81]

Still waiting for those last two routes from U2 to be announced. Anyone else got any more information? I'm praying and hoping for Berlin SXF as this would make my life so much easier (and cheaper!).

[vulcanised]

SAEN are still at it !

There's a gripe in the local YA from their vice-chairman about traffic congestion in the Tesco car park trying to exit to the new road.

[maliyahsdad2]

I haven't read that letter but note on the SAEN website they are now complaing about the footpath only going as far as the bus stop on one side of the road (the other side footpath runs whole length!!!).
As for the tesco's car park when was it ever easy to get out of? 2am or something.

[Expressflight]

The truth seems to be that the difficulty getting out of the Tesco car park was mainly down to the fact that the filter lane from Tescos to Nestuda Way on the A127 roundabout was coned off that day - nothing whatever to do with the new airport relief road.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Southend Airport holiday flight sales are soaring (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/9256682.Southend_Airport_holiday_flight_sales_are_soaring/)

[maliyahsdad2]

Will it be bye bye flybe?

New flights from Southend to Jersey announced (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/9260227.New_flights_from_Southend_to_Jersey_announced/)

[Aero Mad]

That sounds fairly fatal to Flybe's Jersey operation, given that it is once weekly and summer only. Either they'll pull out or maybe expand to where easyJet cannot do so viably with its larger aircraft - however, I suppose that the former is more likely.

[Barling Magna]

Why didn't flybe make more of their Southend location? :confused: Surely they could have made a success of a base there, and with all the development turning SEN into a real London airport they would now be well placed to coin it in. Now easyjet have booted them out. A missed opportunity, I think.

[LEWIS APPLEBY]

Assuming Flybe do pull out of SEN it is shame about them as they have stuck with the Jersey route for quite a few years, and in that time they probably did look at other routes from Southend and didn't think they made commercial sense. Perhaps they might consider other routes like Newquay but I very much doubt it. Another thing to consider is how secure Flybe are, so perhaps it is a good thing to go to Jersey the orange way. Let us hope the four times weekly flights are a success.

[JSCL]

I'd suggest a SEN-BRU route would work ideally also for BE...

[Aero Mad]

Flybe could easily have opened up a base at Southend. This could have involved selling the Gatwick slots (lots of money there) or could have simply involved an additional London base. I would have thought that the following routes were (and continue to be) commercially viable are perhaps (* means if LGW base was closed):


Paris-CdG (possibly, obviously Channel Tunnel implications)
Brussels
Guernsey
Isle of Man
Newcastle
Newquay
Frankfurt
Hannover
Nantes*
Bergerac*

So a base would probably be possible. Shutting up shop at LGW would obviously affect loads at first, but press coverage from easyJet opening has helped to give the airport a higher profile than when Arran duplicated routes (!) from Luton.

[LEWIS APPLEBY]

On a differnt tack I believe the runway extension work at SEN is underway, does anyone out there know when it is likely to be completed?

[davidjohnson6]

Why would Flybe drop Gatwick infavour of Southend. The local demographic in Surrey is pretty wealthy making for customers willing to spend. Big risk to give it all up for a new airport

[vulcanised]

when it is likely to be completed?

Local gossip suggests around the end of the year.

[Lord Gumboil Jnr.]

Greetings to All for the first time!

I have not understood what Flybe are about for some time now. There was the new London Southend 'the place to be', yet they opted for Manston and to cap it all recently purchased a Finnish airline for umpteen millions.

It had occurred to me that Jersey could be a possible route for easyJet. Not only would they pick up the existing Southend business and build on that, but almost certainly would make inroads into Flybe's Gatwick - Jersey service. Surely Flybe must have known that a certain percentage (possibly significant) of their Gatwick passengers came from this side of the Dartford Crossing and yet they chose to operate only one service a week from Southend and up to eight from Gatwick! A seasonal once weekly service could never hope to realise full potential and that had to be obvious to the Flybe management surely.

Easyjet stand to take pax. from Gatwick and also very probably London City and Stansted. Looks as though it could be a very shrewd manoeuvre by easyJet.

[Lord Gumboil Jnr.]

Correction Re. Flybe services from Gatwick to Jersey:-

Should have read up to eight flights a day from Gatwick, not eight a week.

Therefore the comparison with only one per week from Southend seems all the more remarkable!

[SWBKCB]

Wasn't the Flybe service basically an IT flight on which they sold spare seats rather than a 'proper' scheduled service, so comparisons with LGW is Apples vs Oranges?

[Lord Gumboil Jnr.]

Yes, you are quite correct and I often thought that was the reason prices were sometimes very high in the past compared with their other Jersey routes, it was really a pseudo schedule. Maybe they could not undercut costs charged to the client, however I cannot see why that would stop them expanding the route next year, or from when the contract ended. Now it would appear too late and presumably Travelsmith's passengers will fly with Easyjet in future.

It is a shame to see Flybe leave Southend, if that is now their intention. There has to be more to it. I still have no doubt that they will lose Gatwick passengers to Southend, I know a number of people who live in Southend and are forced to use Flybe Gatwick, they are overjoyed at the news.

[Tagron]

All this speculation about what Flybe may or may not do seems pointless in the absence of any statement from Flybe or even a rumour from a credible source. The more so if the comment by SWBKCB is correct, and I believe it may be. I understand the 2011 Jersey series were advertised (in the Southend area at least so this might not be the whole story) as "Stobart Air in association with Flybe".

[Mayfly1]

Hi, have Aer Arran not plans to slot in a take up "near Europe" routes out of Southend with their ATR's? Could this have been a deciding factor in Flybe not wishing to expand at Southend? Clearly Stobart Group will expect AA to develop services from Southend afer their investment in AA last year?

[Barling Magna]

Well, my pure speculation is that Stobart tried to encourage FlyBE to step in and develop routes from SEN but, despite substantial rumours a few years ago, FlyBE didn't do so. As a result Stobart decided to take matters into their own hands and take a slice of AA. My point is that FlyBE could have been placed in a strong position at SEN and would be pretty sure of running a profitable base, but failed to grasp the opportunity. Easyjet's SEN tickets are selling very well at the moment and with a close catchment of over half a million, plus ease of access from and to London by rail, should continue to do so. From SEN's point of view I'm sure EZY will be a better choice than FlyBE, but not so sure about Aer Arann unless Stobart are reconciled to them losing money for the first year of operations and then building up a carefully researched route network from spring 2012. AA need some new aircraft soon too, some of the ATRs are long in the tooth.......

[Barling Magna]

The official opening of the new airport railway station by Theresa Villiers with some good views of the developments, plus a short and embarrassing soundbite from SAEN.... "limitating"..?

BBC News - Southend Airport railway station officially opened (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-15002635)

All systems go.:)

[vulcanised]

I was left wondering why they included the remnants of SAEN in that.

BBC's pursuit of 'equality'?

[JobsaGoodun]

This is an interesting thread but Flybe not expanding at Southend is hardly the end of the world for them. The market at LGW is developed and strong. BMI couldn't successfully compete on JERLHR and neither could EZY from their stronghold at LTN. I really don't think EZY coming on Southend will be particularly worrying. Whilst I am sure that both LHR and LTN services took some passengers from LGW during the times that they operated, in the end both were discontinued. I'm not saying that this will happen again but those that believe that Flybe are weak, commercially and financially are very wide of the mark in my opinion.

Flybe are the largest domestic carrier in the UK, through their joint venture in Finland they will also be the largest domestic carrier in this country to. They have developed strong commercial relationships with major European carriers, BA, AF and Finnair, long standing legacy carriers who recognise the strength of Flybe as a business partner.

SWBKCB is correct, the Flybe service is effectively a part-charter service on behalf of a tour operator who didn't need all of the seats and left the remainder for Flybe to sell direct. If the requirement is still there next year then I'm sure Flybe will operate again, but this decision will not necessarily be one that Flybe take, it will be down to the tour operators as to whether they require it. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that tour operators will suddenly be putting passengers Easyjet's way. Flybe will certainly be able to operate cost effectively against Easyjet with the Q400 - look at LPLIOM where many predicted that Flybe would run off into the distance.... the reality is quite different and the market has grown to support both carriers.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that Easyjet will have some success from Southend but I don't think you'll find it affecting any LGW services, and I don't imagine Flybe are concerned much in the slightest. They had their opportunity to build services at Southend and clearly made the decision that the demand wasn't there for them and their business model. EZY may be different but it remains to be seen.

[LGS6753]

Some years ago EZY operated Luton - Jersey, but no longer do so. The current operator is BEE.
Keep watching........

[Lord Gumboil Jnr.]

JobsaGoodun your remarks are interesting and are no doubt correct regarding Flybe and their present and future potential. However, if, as you suggest, they possibly considered that the demand was insufficient for them at Southend and that it did not fit their business model, why do you think that they must have considered Manston to be the opposite case? I read speculation somewhere that there could be some form of regional subsidy behind it.

Further to my some-what negative remarks concerning their sinking millions into a Finnish airline, it does now appear that Flybe-Nordic may be well placed, with the news that airBaltic are filing for bankruptcy protection. It could well be that one has to say well done Flybe.

[JobsaGoodun]

Gumboil,

You may well be right about subsidies, I don't know, but Manston is geographically isolated with very poor transport and road links and this means that perhaps the average fare charged can be a little higher as it prevents a significant road trip to other airports that might be considered to be close by (LGW etc).

I suspect that Southend has a much denser population close by than Manston may have but those same persons may also have a greater opportunity to use alternative airports such as LCY or STN. It is this threat that may have put Flybe off taking into consideration how their base at Norwich suffered.

Time will tell but I hope Southend does well.It shows good promise as a new base for EZY but for Flybe perhaps Manston offered them the chance to develop a base that would be more defendable, using smaller aircraft. Given how EUJet suffered, it is unlikely that the market is sufficient for larger aircraft and so it suits the Flybe model.

[mikkie4]

i seem to recall that ther are flights to jersey from stansted,with a jersey based airline, i wonder how it will affect them{cant remember name of airline}

[Aero Mad]

Aurigny (Guernsey based airline) run a once daily service from Jersey to Stansted in conjunction with Guernsey to Stansted. I shouldn't think it will affect them too much - lots of islanders use the service so they've got their customer base already cut out.

[LEWIS APPLEBY]

On the Wikipedia webpage for Southend Airport it lists the Easyjet routes as including Riga, starting in April 2012, anyone know if that is true or just another error ?

[mikkie4]

riga been removed from wiki site

[jabird]

In comparing SEN v LGW, it is worth bearing in mind that LGW is just over half the train journey time from Victoria, compared to SEN from Liv. St. LGW also has direct services to London Bridge & St P's, together with connections throughout much of the south east.

SEN is going to take pax mainly from STN, and it is going to serve the local market, so it is no surprise to see Easy in and BE out.

Who is going to operate CAX, I just can't see the point in flying to somewhere 1hr away from London compared to a direct train to Euston in just over 3 hrs. CAX is not NCL - much smaller population, and where's the big business? The Glasgow train line goes straight through, and it also serves the leisure demand for the Lake District.

[Barling Magna]

The additional 20 minutes by train from SEN should be more than made up by the swift journey from plane to train at SEN compared with LGW, so the overall time will be similar. Take into account the ease of air traffic access to SEN from the east and it will be highly competitive for flights from Germany, Netherlands and eastern Europe.

Flights from SEN to Carlisle will no doubt serve Stobart's own business interests, but I would use them rather than the seven hour slog by motorway to get to Keswick which I have to do every few months now - not sure if there are enough other Lake District freaks among SE Essex's half a million population to support such flights though!

[F14]

Could be an excellent base for FastJet :eek:

[maliyahsdad2]

Runway extension progress. Taken from faceb.ook

http://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/321508_266218526742769_100000638706074_900462_583807298_n.jp g

[mikkie4]

could a fully fuled & loaded a319 get to the canary islands given the length of the new runway?

[vulcanised]

Thanks for that picture!

Presumably some taxiways to be added on completion.

[BusBoy]

Mikke4

one or the other but not both

Assuming though you mean sufficient fuel for the route with pax, then no

[OZAZTEC]

Great pic maliyahsdad2 - keep them coming,

Thanks, Paul :ok:

[maliyahsdad2]

Not my pics, just borrowed from face.book. another week and i think the new extension will meet the old runway. a pic taken yesterday showing fast progress.The old road which ran past the church was only closed a month ago. The 4 cottages which sat on the bend are now gone.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/307141_2248660690580_1070073271_2614808_2132404857_n.jpg

[EI-BUD]

Just a thought, would Aer Lingus consider doing Dublin/Southend in its own right (i.e. rather than Aer Arann as Aer Lingus Regional) now that it has A319 about to go into service?

Would certainly be a London airport where they could avoid Ryanair.. Yes Ryanair could turn up the heat on the STN route by adding Frequency and and dropping prices, but for the catchment area around Southend would Aer Lingus go for that??

EI-BUD

[maliyahsdad2]

New radar tower! and below that the hotel so far (3 weeks in). The amount of work done over the last two years has been staggering. A few days ago we received a local advertising booklet with a feature on the new terminal, with pictures from the inside. Thats not far off being finished either! I might scan it and post here if anyone is interested.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/310174_2248654890435_1070073271_2614799_1268836041_n.jpghttp s://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/321544_206572899407905_130834463648416_510916_1921220204_n.j pg

[student88]

Presumably some taxiways to be added on completion.


Looking at the photo I'm guessing there will just be a turning circle at the end to backtrack to the existing taxiways.

[Barling Magna]

maliyahsdad2 (http://www.pprune.org/members/298644-maliyahsdad2): I would certainly be interested in the scanned leaflet.

EI-BUD: A nice idea, which could work.

[vulcanised]

Another vote for the leaflet pictures, please.

All we get here is pizza shed leaflets.

[cwis]

I to would like to see the leaflet pictures
thank you.:cool:

[Buster the Bear]

Is a Cat 3 ILS going in at some point?

[BusBoy]

I think that the runway width is an issue for CAT 3 ops

[Lord Gumboil Jnr.]

Studying photographs of the runway extension work, it appears that without taxiway 'Charlie' also being extended (if there is ground space), there is quite a long way to back-track to the end of Runway 06 for take-off. Heavier aircraft landing on RW.24 and which go to the end will also potentially cause delays if they have to back track to the existing 'Charlie'. I do not recall that the plans show a taxi-way extension but, although it would entail even more expenditure, this time of upheaval is surely the moment to include it, rather than wait until queues prove what could be inevitable.

[Phileas Fogg]

Perhaps it's a shame they aren't building a 'loop' such as MAN have done at the threshold of 05R whereas 2,3 or whatever number of aircraft can be 'stacked' down at the runway end and at the same time,

As it seems it is destined to be built, and come the rush hour periods, perhaps between 0700 and 0800 of a weekday morning, they might be only able to schedule one movement, arrival or departure, every 10 minutes or similar which doesn'r make for a particularly busy airport and might keep operators away.

[Wycombe]

Southampton has a pretty long backtrack for departures on 20, and although not ideal I believe it would take Southend a long time to reach their movement rate.

[Lord Gumboil Jnr.]

Good point re. Southampton.

[nighthawk117]

Edinburgh airport only gained full length taxiways about 8 years ago, up until then they were handling 100,000+ movements a year while requiring backtracks. I'm sure Southend will cope just fine.

[Groundloop]

and come the rush hour periods,

Southend, rush hour!:ok:

[ericlday]

Luton still has no full length taxiways to either end of the runway !!!!!!

[wyld1]

What do people think about the possibity of flights to Edinburgh and Glasgow being added. And which airline would operate it?

[cornishsimon]

Maybe RE ?

cs

[davidjohnson6]

Steady on - Easyjet don't start flying from Southend for another six months, which will undoubtedly have some teething issues. If those issues become too large, the orange brigade may choose to reduce flying at SEN in 2013.

Perhaps better to show you can walk before you try to run ?

[cornishsimon]

Very true davidjohnson6 (http://www.pprune.org/members/281509-davidjohnson6)

however i was just pointing out that RE might be one possible option for further smaller routes due to the Stobart link.

it might also be nice to see a NQY link, to give BE a run for their money on the Cornwall - London link

cs

[Expressflight]

That's assuming RE actually start any new SEN routes.

[Barling Magna]

Is that in doubt now? I thought the original RE plan was to launch further routes from SEN in July 2011, which was then delayed until October 2011 and now delayed further until April 2012? If RE are using the modest load factors on the Waterford and Galway routes as an indicator, they should remember that it was not a clever move to begin these services before the new terminal and railway station were operational.

[Barnaby the Bear]

What do people think about the possibity of flights to Edinburgh and Glasgow being added. And which airline would operate it?

APD isn't helping the development of new Domestic routes for UK operators. :*

[Bartek]

I would like to see BE give EDI & GLA to SEN a shot. It would be good for BE to get in on the Central Scotland-London trunk market and SEN could be a good 'in' for them. It would need to be a minimum of 2 x daily, with times to suit business travel.

[davidjohnson6]

I'm not an expert on this, but why would business choose to use Southend, when City airport is rather nearer London and Stansted has various Easyjet routes ? I'm trying to think of a suitable area with lots of businesses that would look particularly for a SEN-Scotland route

[Barling Magna]

Well there's a sizeable local catchment, but I agree with you. Surely SEN's strength is eastwards? Avoiding air traffic delays and flying quickly to Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany and eastern Europe should attract business.

[EGMC81]

I agree with Barling Magna, routes eastwards must seriously be the best bet for Southend? I personally would love to see a regular route to Berlin as this would suit our family down to the ground. Reduced travel time to the airport (two stops on the train or 10 minutes by taxi verses minimum 90 minutes to Gatwick) and reduced air time (not sure by how much, I reckon it could be up to 30 minutes shorter). Flight time to Berlin from Southend 1 hour - what do you think?
Where else could they serve? The airport seem pretty pro-active having approached easyjet themselves. We should tell the airport where we want to go and they will probably take serious consideration to it if approached by a large enough volume of people. They are asking for opinions on their facebook page.

[maliyahsdad2]

looks like Easy have a few suggestions already...


Ski crowd may fly easyJet from Southend (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/9287682.Ski_crowd_may_fly_easyJet_from_Southend/)

[bmaviscount]

Do we have a date for when it is to open?

[JSCL]

Not sure on opening.

Recruitment day was today - lots of pics on London Southend FacePPRuNe

[LGS6753]

Galway RE flights suspended from 31st October

[virginblue]

Münster/Osnabrück flights by Jetisfaction no longer bookable.

Seems as if SEN is losing the few routes it had at a worrying speed.

[AirLCY]

That's what many small airlines do when they have Easy or FR on the door step!

[Rear steps]

Why work at SEN, no sick pay, crap shifts, a management who wont listen to ANY suggestions to move forward.

Trust me, think carefully if you wanna work here. Unless you are a masochist and like being treated like a dog!!!

[Aero Mad]

Just rang Jetisfaction. The lady said that bookings had surpassed the expected demand and that all flights had sold out until the next timetable release and therefore it was no longer bookable - apparently flights are still due to operate. Whether this is true or not is yet to be seen.

[virginblue]

That's rubbish what the CSA told you. I only noticed that the flights were gone because I have monitored the development over the past few weeks considering a booking for the first week of operations. Almost all flights were available for the lowest fare (44.99 EUR) before the flights disappeared. Jetifaction has already officiall cancelled FMO-POZ and on the route to ZRH they have used a Cessa Citation or a Piper Chieftain recently instead of the Saab 340.

Really looks like a non-starter.

[Expressflight]

Let's keep all this "Southend is losing the few routes it had at worrying speed" business in perspective shall we?

Firstly, it is still the 'old' SEN that is currently operational. Indeed, it is something less than that with no ILS nor 06 approach lighting due to the runway extension construction work. From early next year SEN will be a totally different proposition to both airlines and pax alike and that is when you will see the serious operators moving in.

Jetisfaction's FMO-SEN route announcement was something of a surprise to SEN as they had not even negotiated any terms with them and the originally announced schedule included SEN arrivals at a time when the airfield would still have been closed due to the overnight runway works. Note that at no time have SEN publicised the FMO route and they are well aware of the Jetisfaction record of last year when things went awry. So if FMO doesn't start it might be something of a relief to all concerned.

Moving on to Aer Arann, the winter closure of the GWY base and 'temporary' withdrawal of all of their scheduled routes from there is no reflection on SEN. You might as well say that LTN's loss of the GWY route is a sign that LTN is struggling. It seemed quite likely a year ago, when they were refinanced in a less than convincing manner, that RE would struggle in winter 2011/12 and they are obviously taking the steps they feel necessary to carry them through to better times.

I know from personal experience just how attractive a number of European airlines find the 'new' SEN in terms of their future plans, but they are sensibly going to wait until the runway extension is completed and ready before launching any routes.

[EI-BUD]

Expressflight, I tend to agree. I believe that SEN wont come to life in a meaningful way until carriers such as easyjet firmly put it on the map. Other carriers eg some of the mentioned dont have strong recognition and hence people dont book their flights.

Easyjet will have strong marketing and good brand recognition so I think it is far to early to predict failings. I wouldnt cast any predictions until at least the 1st season of operations has passed!

In terms of Aer Arann, they flew historically to Luton as they deemed it to be ideally positioned as a strong gateway for the London Irish and it's proximity to North London etc. Besides all of that Luton Galway and Waterford were well developed, SEN routes for RE are not! Figures show on Dublin/Luton that it is likely that would be LTN WAT/GWY passengers are going Ryanair.
EI-BUD

[virginblue]

I have no doubts that SEN is an interesting addition for the London market and I am more than happy to use it - hence my disappointment about the development. I do not think it was very clever to relaunch SEN somewhat hastily before everything was up and running infrastructure-wise and a big brand was ready to start ops. Of course I understand that Stodart wanted to play with its new toy as quickly as possibly, but somewhat hastily re-locating a well-established route that for some good reason served LTN and attracting the shakiest of outfits from the continent certainly did more harm than good PR-wise now that these operations have faltered.

[SWBKCB]

certainly did more harm than good PR-wise now that these operations have faltered.

but outside of the small circle of Pprune, who has noticed?

Most people won't know (or care) there is an airport at Southend until EZY start to operate. Once EZY gets up and running, any smaller operators will benefit from the spotlight that EZY turn on the airport.

It least the airport seems to be going forward, how many others in the UK can say that?

[vulcanised]

A breath of fresh air and logic from Expressflight.

There's plenty of regular daily traffic while the work is completed, once that's done then the success can be judged.

[LTNman]

Stobart was interested in getting Aer Arran to Southend because they needed an airline to kick start Southend. The problem for Aer Arran was that Southend was not ready for the airline but the airline moved anyway to a dated terminal with no proper transport links or facilities.

Now Stobart has Easyjet who had the sense to wait for the new Southend to be born so has Stobart lost interest in Aer Arran and its handful of passengers who would not follow the airline from Luton.

Can’t help but feel that Aer Arran’s management must regret moving when they did.

[Expressflight]

easyJet is a totally different case to Aer Arann as they need the runway extension to be in service prior to commencing services. I don't suppose there are many people who were surprised that RE's move from LTN to SEN at that stage in the latter's development proved to be less than a brilliant move.

[Steviec9]

The fact is, without Stobarts cash injection in late 2010, Aer Arann would not have survived and all their flights, including those from the UK to Galway and WAT, would have ended then. They had little choice but to take what was on offer, clearly with conditions attached (divert some service to an unready SEN) and try to make it work.

Infrastructure issues at SEN and the unwillingness of established LTN passengers to transfer to SEN notwithstanding, the further fact remains that the bottom is falling out of the Irish regional market. Whilst Ireland remains in deep recession, demand for non essential travel is generally flatlining. Mainline airlines into the three main Irish airports can keep going as there is sufficient demand, although even here we have seen some tweaking and reductions. On specialist, niche routes such as GWY and WAT and with a high overheads airline such as RE, exposure to weakened demand is proving to be catastrophic. Removal of PSO subsidies in Ireland, together with an ‘Airport Development Fee’ at GWY further exacerbate the problem. It no longer takes hours to travel from SNN, NOC, ORK or DUB to the more remote counties. Millions of EU euros have been used in providing a new motorway network. Galway City is now only 50 mins or so from Shannon on a virtually straight run at motorway or dual carriageway standard.

It remains to be seen if RE survive in their current format – in simple terms, the money from Stobarts has been used up and they are still in the red and losing money. My hunch is that RE will become some kind of ACMI provider to Aer Lingus with some possible ad-hoc charter work – in much the same way that Suckling/Scot Airways have managed to survive and remain successful.

SEN and Easyjet are doing the right thing generally looking eastwards across the Channel and south to the Med for routes – I still can’t quite see the need to take an old and rattling turboprop flight from east of London to west coast of Ireland, duration over 1½ hours, when I can do LHR or LGW to SNN for example in bang on an hour and usually for less fare. SEN to DUB/ORK/SNN all have more merit serving the larger markets but would require some form of jet to start being time competitive with the other London-Irish routes.

I’ll repeat what I’ve said before, I wish every airline and airport (and their staff) success in these difficult times – but I would be surprised if the quick fix sticking plaster that Stobarts offered Aer Arann will prove a lasting cure.

[JDB1052]

SEN may be losing Galway but Waterford is still operating. This should mean no change in the number of Arran movements at SEN for winter as todays ops go Galway via Waterford so all that is apparantly being lost is the Galway tag to the Waterford service.

[vulcanised]

the quick fix sticking plaster that Stobarts offered Aer Arann


Might also be referred to as a lifeline.

I wouldn't be totally amazed if we were to see Stobart Air emerge as successors to AA.

[EI-BUD]

Aer Arann clearly showing that GWY losing money for range of reasons as already stated softening demand etc, but the other indicators are that Aer Lingus regional saw something in the region of 45-50% growth for August '11 v August '10. The soundings have been that DUB EDI GLA have been performing well in terms of loads, DUB GLA has now greater numbers than FR DUB PIK. Although this provides no indication of yield is there distinct comments/facts that RE is losing money or in big diff's? is the truth that overall they are simply removing loss making routes from the network over the winter?

What are the other Aer Lingus Regional routes doing in terms of performance? I would expect ORK to be good as they operate exclusively on those routes? DUB ABZ will end for FR thus leaving RE alone to the route and I would guess that there is good transatlantic feed on this route??

One last comment, as Aer Arann brand is getting much smaller and a much smaller part of the overall Aer Arann operation, would it not make sense to market the whole operation as Aer Lingus Regional? Cut marketing costs and focus on being exclusively on Aer Lingus Regional? Would this not allow for good interlining on Kerry Dublin or IOM interlining to US (not sure about demand there).
EI-BUD

[airportbuilder]

The current situation is tha the contractors have been stopped from working on the runway extension, this is since it is alleged an aircraft tried to land on the new part. Work was due to be completed by the end of Oct but that seems unlikely now. Work on the aprons and taxiways moves on at a pace with much of it nearly complete. More work at night this week will see most of it done.

[Expressflight]

I heard this morning that white crosses have been painted on the new part of the runway - perhaps to avoid this happening again, if indeed it did happen.

[maliyahsdad2]

those crosses are apparent on some faceb.ook photos from earlier in the week.

edit. photo below dated 7th oct.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/320943_2269170043301_1070073271_2632189_1756961361_n.jpg

[airportbuilder]

On the day it happened all work was suspended and if you look at the photo you will see several concrete strips are unfinished. This was alleged to have been stopped by the CAA and in fact all work stopped air side until last week. there is still a quantity of concrete to be placed followed by the tarmac wearing course and the gap has not yet been filled at the end of the existing runway. The aircraft avoided actually landing but no details have emerged of the actual incident.

[Expressflight]

If the crosses have been there since at least 7 October it's hard to believe that the extension could have been mistaken for an operational part of the runway only a couple of days ago.

[Tagron]

Having looked at the photo of the extension, I consider it highly unlikely that any pilot would attempt to land on the extension in its present state, even before the white crosses were in place.

A much more plausible scenario is that an aircraft flew too shallow an approach to the existing threshold and in so doing caused concern to the contractors. If the CAA became involved of course they could require a pause in the construction process to enable safety procedures to be reviewed.

[Barnaby the Bear]

airportbuilder... I'm sorry but I believe you have been fed some incorrect information.
There have not been any incidents of Aircraft mistaking the new extension for the threshold.

[vulcanised]

There have not been any incidents of Aircraft mistaking the new extension for the threshold.


Listening to some of the 'Sunday drivers' it wouldn't surprise me.

[Expressflight]

Aer Arann have published their Winter 2011/12 timetable and the WAT-SEN remains much as now, with just the Saturday evening rotation being dropped. Weekday morning arrivals SEN seem to be 30 minutes earlier at 0855.

[maliyahsdad2]

Looks like runway work is back in full swing this morning.

[tws123]

Just heard today that Jetisfaction have postponed the start of the Southend to Munster-Osnabruck route due to "operational reasons", BUT they insist that this is a minor set back and that they are to confirm a new launch date later on (no mention of when this will be).

[SWBKCB]

BBC story:

BBC News - Southend Airport runway protesters arrested (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-15505319)

[mikkie4]

brainless idiots!!!!

[Aero Mad]

To their credit, they make no pretentions as to what they are: plain stupid.

[HeliAl]

As long as the public footpath crosses the airfield, they will not be able to stop this kind of action. How this will affect Easy Jet in the future god knows. But heard at a recent Southend users meeting from the Airport management staff, there is nothing we can do, any way there are other airports with footpaths running across them. When challenged on this ''go ahead and name them'' a quick change off subject happened.:sad:

[longbow21]

Sumburgh, Kemble & North Weald are just a few airfields that spring to mind with roads/public rights of way running through (across runways)!! All use(d) traffic lights to control vehicles & people crossing the runway ends (& obviously sharp eyed ATS personnel)!!

[Expressflight]

HeliAl

I think you're being somewhat alarmist and your description "...as long as the public footpath crosses the airfield ..." hardly fits the facts. It is only a 20m length of the path where it crosses taxiway D which is unfenced.

Even if it proved impossible to close that section of the footpath by re-routing it along Aviation Way, and I'm not sure you're correct in suggesting that is the case, it shouldn't be beyond technology to set up a system which satisfactorily safeguards the runway strip from pedestrian incursions.

[HeliAl]

Alarmist probably a little, but the matter has been there for several years and the airport have said that they cannot get it closed. They are trying to promote the airport as an international gateway. The fencing along side the northern boundary is poorly defined and for at least 250m the footpath runs inside the airfield boundary only defended by a ditch, and often the local horse trader pegs and ties on feeding leads, ponies on the track causing walkers to divert around the animals.

Although part of the foot path is across the 20m section of taxiway.Often spotters go walk about unchallenged, I'm sure this will change, but it takes an incident like the runway incursion to sort it out.

Just a point of discussion:ok:

[Expressflight]

HeliAl

Please correct me if I'm wrong as it's a very long time since I've walked that footpath, but the "ditch" on the south side of the path that you mention is in fact a stream with an almost vertical 15ft bank on the opposite bank isn't it? Presumably this is thought to present a fairly effective barrier.

I see that planning consent was granted in May 2008 for a 2.4m fence along the north side of the path as far as Taxiway D with a similar fence on the path's south side beyond that point, where just the stream exists without the bank. So it does seem to me that only where the footpath crosses the 20m width of the Taxiway is at issue here as far as security is concerned.

[maliyahsdad2]

Last month I mentioned scanning an article from a local magazine. Sorry I didn't get round to it. but you can read it here, pages 12 and 13.
http://thisisyouressex.com/images/this_is_your_essex_october2011.pdf


This month there is another article (its a monthly feature) and the magazine is available online now so you can see the progress also on pages 12 and 13.

http://thisisyouressex.com/images/this_is_your_essex_november2011.pdf

pdf reader required.

[bmaviscount]

Anyone flown this? know which route it takes? flying this weekend

[NorthSouth]

This is about the closest recommended route from the Standard Routes Document:

EGMC DCT EVNAS DCT LAM L10 BPK DCT HEN DCT CPT L9 SLANY

NS

[mikkie4]

any news as to other airlines that may use sen?

[Barling Magna]

Interesting interview with Andrew Tinkler in the Sunday Times: "Buying Southend Airport and obtaining permission to extend the runway, signing a 10-year deal with easyJet, surprised some. Stobart already owns Carlisle airport and Tinkler thinks a mix of freight and passengers can make small airports a very profitable concern. He may even buy more.

Last November Stobart Group took a 5% stake in Aer Arann, a small loss-making Irish airline, with an option to increase it to 37%. Where's that going? Tinkler launched into a rapid-fire reply about opportunity in Ireland, government subsidy, how well Aer Arann works with Aer Lingus for which it operates some domestic flights. But he doesn't really answer the question. Then he adds that part of it was to create a service from Southend. But if he has easyJet from next year shouldn't he focus on that? Sure he says, but he also wants to offer Stobart's biggest haulage customers - firms such as Tesco and Coca-Cola- an air-based service. If I've got Coca-Cola with a factory breaking down and they need a part and the say fly me something in.... But wouldn't they use international couriers? Tinkler's plans look hubristic.

' No worries. Southend was cheap. We had to get planning but I knew we could do it. I want to put a smile on passengers/ faces.' But no Stobart airline? 'No, not unless someone pays us to use the name.' "

[tws123]

Flybe have confirmed that they will not be operating the Jersey summer service next year due to EasyJet operating the route more frequently.

[J-Guy]

Just noticed that Jersey has gone from 4 weekly flights to daily flights with easyJet. I guess it must be selling well?

[mikkie4]

with the extra flights to jersey,how will they find the extra plane?

[vulcanised]

I think they've got more than one.

[mikkie4]

are there enough planes at sen to do this extra flight and the 10th unknown destination,or wiil ezy bring in an extra plane?

[Buster the Bear]

Could be via a W pattern from another base?

[airhumberside]

Or the 10th destination might not happen now

[Jamie-Southend]

Entertaining Journalistic dribble, and readers comments in the local rag today, all because of an RJ85 going a bit techy with some Red lorries called out.

Fears for incoming plane at Southend Airport (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/9361176.Fears_for_incoming_plane_at_Southend_Airport/?ref=mr)

[vulcanised]

Usual load of drivel from that quarter.

At least we were spared the heroic pilot fighting the controls.

[Barling Magna]

October's pax statistics show a continuing trend:

Luton to Galway 6844 in 2010, 1471 in 2011
Southend to Galway 1413
Total in 2011: 2884 v. 6844 in 2010

Luton to Waterford 5688 in 2010, 1335 in 2011
Southend to Waterford 2530
Total in 2011: 3865 v 5688 in 2010.

The only other passengers showing from SEN are 68 to Jersey, so the monthly total staggered above 4000. I wonder if Aer Arann will ever build a network from SEN, or whether they will quietly fade away from the airport entirely next year? Whatever, it's been good to see daily services back at SEN and thanks to Aer Arann for that. I still find it hard to grasp that easyJet are coming to SEN. I always imagined that smaller operators would slowly prove the market before EZY would show interest a year or so down the line. It's amazing that Stobart Air scooped top prize at the outset. Part of me remembers watching Southend United go 3-0 up inside the first twenty minutes, only to lose 5-3 by the end of the match. I hope SEN maintains its early lead..... SEN needs its new terminal and runway in operation. I note that the last cottage on the approach has been demolished this week so progress is being made.Roll on the day those orange jets crowd the apron....

[vulcanised]

The ILS is in the process of being recommissioned so I would guess that means the runway extension is at a very advanced stage of completion.

There was an Easy A319 in earlier today but I think it was for engineering.

[mikkie4]

if the length of the r/w at sen can only accom A319/turbo prop planes(no 737-800),what airlines could we hope to see?.it has been said that it would not be profitable to get an 737-800 and fill it 75%,is this true

[Barling Magna]

This is a moot point. E190 and A320 should be OK to use the extended runway, and B757 with slight restrictions.

[Tagron]

There is no simple answer to the question of which aircraft types can use SEN and with what restrictions. It is necessary to look at the aircraft specific data in all cases. This is because within a generic aircraft type (e.g. A320) there can be lightweight and heavyweight versions, and subtypes operating at different engine thrust ratings. These differences can become significant on a performance limiting runway.

Many medium size jets will be takeoff weight limited at SEN, but the limitation is likely to manifest itself as either (a) full fuel, hence maximum range but restricted payload or (b) full payload but limited fuel which will constrain maximum range. I would expect scheduled operators to be most interested in (b), but one-off or occasional charters might accept (a).

So for example it may well be that a 737-800 could operate with a full payload on short sectors from SEN, but for longer sectors the likely payload restriction would make it a commercially unattractive option. This is why it is unlikely SEN would ever become a main base for this type.

The 757 has a very good airfield performance for an aircraft of its size. I would expect it to be able to operate to a good portfolio of European destinations from SEN but not a maximum payload transatlantic. That is a general comment based on my own experience, but again the real picture would only emerge from a proper performance calculation.

[asdf1234]

We looked at operating A320's to/from Southend for the Olympics. As part of our due dilligence we approached current A320 operators and asked them if they could perfrom a SEN-REU sector with 150 pax. Some said the extended runway was too short and they wouldn't do it - some agreed to do it. It seemed to us that the runway length (extended) is on the lower limit of what airlines will accept and that individual company SOP's are the determining factor.

[Barling Magna]

Air Humberside reports a Newmarket Holidays charter from SEN to Milan Bergamo on Sunday 17th June 2012, returning 1 week later. The airline used will be Mistral Air, presumably one of its 737-300 or 400s. Let's hope this is the first of many. :)