Manchester Happenings (Merged)

[G-BBAE]

If there is a wind direction of North west is runway 06 or runway 24 used, i have noticed alot of days this week there has been a direction of North West winds, just wondering which runway was used?

[eggc]

06 in use most of this week

[dwlpl]

EZY have apparently handed back all their remaining slots for MAN My guess is that they want the fees reduced further to offset the slot times. Until they get that reduction they will stay away.

Does anyone know, for the purpose of comparison, how much the airport gets in the way of fees from an airline operating a 747/767/777 with a stand occupied for 90mins as opposed to 3*EZY 737 occupying 3*stands for 30mins?

[G-BBAE]

Thank you, looks like i could be departing off 06 then.
Another question for some of the spotters who go there, is the BA767 quite noisy on take off.

[eggc]

G-BBAE

I flew on WH in 2002, bit scruffy - but not to bad all in all.

Cant remember it being any noiser than other 767's.

[G-BBAE]

How would you describe G-BNWH, such as seats etc, i know people moan about no personal TVs but do all headphone sockets work and is there good leg room.
Where are the emergency exit seats, i may try get them as they have fantastic leg room, well they did on the BY 767s.

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

G-BNWH is going in to have a facelift later in the year

G-I-B

[GrahamK]

Should be replaced on the MAN-JFK run with a BA CitiExpress ERJ-145XLR a/c :}

[Adola69]

:{

Reporter Jay Pushback has just sent this in:-
When asked just a few nano seconds ago, about airlines not being able to fly to Manchester because they dare ask for some old fasioned sort of 'GATE experience' on arrival, a spokeperson for MA Plc told me:-
" Tosh. If these airlines insist on using the wrong type of aircraft for our Airport then they can go and hang. Do you know that they want to fly Boeing triple thingymajigs and Airbus A 33 whatsits into here? It's quite ridiculous to expect us to be able to handle these aircraft in large quantities. We are only a REGIONAL airport you know, who are best suited to handling regional aircraft like the good old Piper's and Cessna's. We could pile any amount of them onto a pier with no trouble at all.

When asked isn't it good buiness sense to invest in your core buiness of moving aircraft and accomadating airlines during a downturn in the market, to be ready to able to meet demands during the upturn, they said " We're thinking about that one, and may wait until the next downturn before coming to a conclusion. However I do have exciting news that we have started construction of 6 new parking stands for aircraft, that will end up being another cul-de-sac, and this should just be ready in time for ?? - oh dear looks like we'll just miss the summer peak for 2005!
However do you know that since the downturn in Air Traffic that has happened since 9/11, we have invested huge amounts in
1) A new shopping experience in terminal 1.
2) A new shopping experience in terminal 2.
3) Some new cars for the board.
4) Unlimited funds for hot-pour repairs to our taxiway infrastructure.
5) Twelve tins of yellow paint for some temporary taxiway markings.
6) ? Ermmm let me see now ----- Sorry that's it there's no number six!"


When asked if he and the board were worried that airlines seem to be taking there new business to other airfields that can readily accomadate them, or just not bothering to start at all, he said,
" I blame W.H Smiths for not selling the right goods for the modern traveller, and Boots the chemist for hardly being a chemist at all"!!!
By this time he was turning a beetroot shade due to embarrssment, and ended up blurting out,
" Remember the words of our once great leader Mr. G Moorhen,:- Never, in the field of airports have so few stands been required by so many!"

Our reporter then states that the spokeperson then turned into a puff of smoke and disappeared into an old fasioned oil lamp!

Let's get Carlsberg onto the board, as they probably make the best airports in the world. The present incumbents probably make the best deaf, dumb and blind association in the world!! (No offence meant to any Real association for the above who do tremendous work).

Yours sincerely,
G. Sweetapple & G. Tompson

[G-BBAE]

Why can't BA see sense and relegate G-BNWH to European routes and put an already refurbished 767 on the route.

[Porky Speedpig]

None of the 767s have been refurbished yet - the first is due out next weekend. NWH has to be left to the end because it has a unique configuration and thus the refurbishment of equipment which takes place from one unit to another in any heavy maintenance or modification line would not be possible if it was not the final input.

[G-BBAE]

Yes but BA shouldnt really care about refurbishing 767s for London-Munich routes etc when there is a route that neads priorty first in refurbishment.
Do BA plan to keep G-BNWH on the route until it dies or do they one day plan to upgrade to a 777.

[Bagso]

The Hot Pour International Airport And Local Parish Council Support Line is now open ......

.........has your faith in your local Airport been shaken by this weeks events as the full effects of the annual route tombola and raffle become clear "

"... How will this affect the parish accounts, which as some people identified have only just recovered after the heavy investment in new company cars and director expense accounts...

Did you think this was the year that we threw off the shackles and became A MAJOR GATEWAY......?

Are you shocked that never in the field of aviation have so many slots been handed back by so many.....by so many ?

Some poeple mostly shoppers, masquerading as travellers, have been asking theselves

"what is going on ?

There is no easy answer but the The Hot Pour International Airport And Local Parish Council Support Line is now open if you need help....

Your probably scratching your head thinking ?

"how can we afford to turn away so much business"

"How on earth did Air India make an announcment to use us only to retract it and end up going to Birmingham"

"Are PIA moving the twice weekly ORD to BHX"

" Why are we The Hot Pour Capital of the North"

If you are one of those whose faith has been put so severely to the test why not seek an expert ?

Call us now and we can help....

Mr Smthye Airport Chairman, Local Rochdale Councillor, former Butcher and Keeper of the whippets, will be on hand to answer and of course avoid all your questions....

AND don't forget with the non-appearance of so many new routes we do need help with Parish Funds therefore we will be releasing a Single and CD featuring The Manchester Hot Pour Choristers....

singalong to those old favourites you know so well.....

"Not Leaving On A Jet2 plane"

"No EASYjet way"

" New York, New York" (on BNWH) ....this of course is a re-release having first topped the charts 20 years ago and every day since

If you have any ideas to help village funds do call and let us know....!

[Caslance]

What the :mad: are you going on about, Bagso? :confused:

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Monarch Airlines has announced an increase of 3 departures per week on the MAN-FAO scheduled service. Frequency will be 10x weekly for Summer 2005. Apologies if this has already been reported on here; I haven't seen any mention.

[Powerjet1]

Monarch also appear to have increased LTN-FAO to 5 x weekly for S05, with the addition of a Monday service.

[20-17]

If EZY are not operating out of MAN by the end of 2005 that is really cr4p news for all concerned.

Heard that BA hanger could be made into a low cost terminal for all carriers inc EZY?? AB, HLX, FR, WW and MYT. Think this would be a great idea if the infastructure could be sorted and no reason why not as near M56 junction and short taxi tmes.

MAN needs EZY more then any other airline.

Cheers and Up the Lions:ok:

[Vuelo]

Manchester doesn;t NEED Easyjet, it NEEDS CATHAY PACIFIC, QANTAS, AIR INDIA, GULF AIR, SOUTH AFRICAN, KENYA AIRWAYS, THAI, AIR CHINA , AEROFLOT....not more lo-co;s clogging the system!

[TURIN]

Heard that BA hanger could be made into a low cost terminal for all carriers inc EZY??

Now THAT is funny!:8

Can't wait to see the automatic fire hoses going off over a 1000 whinging backpackers!:E

[Mouser]

Vuelo
Make ya mind up, weeks ago the thought of Easyjet there routes and a/c had you manc's dribbling, now they ain't coming.

[This Charming Man]

Hey Mouser

If it was the other way round you Mickey's would probably of had a Memorial service ;)

[Hawk]

OK. Starting to degenerate into a slanging match. Let's bring it back to sensible discussion.
cheers
H

[dwlpl]

I think EZY will get into MAN on their own conditions, ie LOW fees.

Bit of a Catch 22 with MAPLC having to invest in MAN, EMA, HUY and BOH and also agree to offer the likes of EZY lower fees and as a consequence reduced cash flow.

[Vuelo]

Vuelo is not just one person you know...it's a collective! Plus we all look gorgeous in our uniforms!!

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Wonderful
you need to have a disclaimer to cover for each others posts unless you you all sit there and type together

G-I-B

[Vuelo]

Yeah suppose, but there are at least 15 of us!

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Rather puts an interesting angle on people who think they know who you are!
You have obviously got a split personality

G-I-B

[Vuelo]

People on here have thought we are many things !! Noone has got it right though! (yet!)

[aeulad]

Well if the Maspalomas sand dunes are anything to go by, we certainly know something about you Vuelo;) ;)

Regards

Mike

[dwlpl]

Noone has got it right though! Is that Peter Noone the famous lead of Hermans Hermits?

[G-BBAE]

Can we please get on topic, just wondering if aircraft at terminal 3 are ever parked on remote stands, how often is this the case that aircraft are on remote stands, and is it usually terminal 1 flights.[COLOR=green]

[Eurotraveller]

Hello 'AE

Terminal Three has two new 'remote' stands at the eastern edge of the apron numbered 56 and 57. Terminal 3 flights also often get parked on SB1, 2 and 3 (South Bay, south of the cul de sac). I'm not sure if remote parking ever extends further than this (ie stands off taxiway November/Delta) although it might well do, I'm sure someone else will tell you if it does.

I'm not sure if the 'push and park' operation is still in place? Basically this entailed the pushing back of aircraft on T3 airbridge stands and then parking remote off taxiway Juliet abeam Juliet Sierra until slot time. This then allowed other aircraft to take the vacated airbridge stands and avoid the need for remote parking. I'm not sure whether that's still being done, although looking at the new aerodrome chart for Manchester there seem to have been some stands allocated in this area, possibly for that purpose:

http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/aerodromes/32CC0202.PDF

Cheers
Eurotraveller

[lagerlout]

it all sounds so superbly organised.... cant see why the real lo-cos dont want to go there????? :sad: :{ ;)

[GrahamK]

T2 a/c use remote stands also, having personally flown from MAN on an XLA 752 from a remote stand opposite T2. Think they didnt want it at the terminal because the a/c toilets were leaking or something :uhoh:

[gps117]

anyone know what is happeningto staff west - looks like a big building project

[Caslance]

cant see why the real lo-cos dont want to go there Given that rather more "lo-cost" operators serve Ringway than serve Liverpool, I presume that you're talking about easyJet when you say "real lo-cos"?

In what way are Jet2, Air Berlin, Hapag Lloyd Express, bmiBaby, Ryanair and MyTravel Lite unreal?

OK - maybe not the last one..... ;)

Oh, and I suppose we have to include the "no-frills" scheduled services by Monarch, too.

[lagerlout]

Yourself and other who actively post on this particular thread saying how you crave Easyjet to make MAN a big base like gatwick, the other carriers you refer to are not exactly the flagship low cost boys are they BMI baby and Mytravel lite are hardly re -writing the rule book..... my point is that MAPLC craves a low co like ryanair or EZY who will fill there a/c 85% of the time not these wannabies that are slowly re-treating back to their charter backgrounds. As for ryanair 4 times a day to dub hardly classifies it as a big base does it?

MAN needs to get its act together and decide where its future lies... chasing A380 dreams and the long haul market or diversifying properly and offering a compotent low cost facility to compliment what it already has. At the moment it seems stuck in the middle.

Cant see that JET 2 will be too happy when all the summer congestioon comes, we will wait and see. How are they getting on by the way are there loads good, i know its early days but its good to get an idea!

[Danny_R]

The MAN-LGW service is apparently struggling somewhat, only around 20 PAX in each direction. Not sure how long Jet2 will keep this route on if numbers don't improve.

[eggc]

Think EZY want MAN more than other way around !!

Liverpool WAS their second choice in the NW, after MAN....they coudln't get the deal they wanted then ex MAN and obviously MAN hasnt tried to hard to get them on board this time either....

Think this shows who craves who !!

[lagerlout]

MAPLC does not want ezy... your having a laugh MAPLC just can not give ezy the slots they want its simple too many of the airports slots are tied up with small BA regional jets carrying 10 pax to ABZ and Inverness etc, airport mgt would be creaming themselves thinking of 130+ punters on a 737 or A319... thats the problem....but they just cant do it.

No denying EZY were gutted when JET 2 stole the march on them.


JET 2 three times a day to LGW was a surprise but its still early days, they will struggle in the face of a lot of competition to make this work tho. What about there other routes are they doing OK!

MY fingers are crossed for them!

[Caslance]

Yourself and other who actively post on this particular thread saying how you crave Easyjet to make MAN a big base Who? Me? :confused:

Where and when did I express this craving, lagerlout?

Look, pal - the only real lo-cost out there is Southwest Airlines. They wrote the rulebook, after all.

Ryanair and easyJet are pale imitations. :p

[eggc]

EUROMANX is going into direct competition with its biggest rival by launching a major new route, the Examiner can exclusively reveal.
And a massive investment in the company is also expected to be announced by its owners.

The airline is set to run three daily flights to Manchester Airport from late March using an 82-seat jet.

It will put the burgeoning company up against British Airways CitiExpress on the route.
Flight times have not been confirmed yet, but return prices, including taxes, are expected to start from £49.

EuroManx is also launching a summer weekend service to Bristol, taking its total number of routes to nine.

[This Charming Man]

Just heard that the proposed Delta to JFK is off and an announcement confiming Cathay's 3x week with A340's is on hold as Cathay cannot get the right slots at SVO !

brgds
TCM

[Daza]

Looks like this service will opearte from BHX now the Indian government have given the go-ahead for the above service. See article in the Indian press
http://www.hindubusinessline.com/
Daza

[UFGBOY]

At least 2 airlines are using it for positioning crew - cheaper than BA ID50 most of the time - really hope it survives...........

[G-BBAE]

Does G-BNWH always use an airbridge then or does that sometimes use remote stands.

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

When ever I see it its always on a jetty

G-I-B

Does anybody know what the Air Atlanta
was doing goint to Porto Alegre in Brazil from Manchester last night

[Scottie Dog]

Are your questions really 'Manchester Happenings'? Have you thought of opening your own thread?! Everytime I get an email saying that there is a new posting on 'Manchester Happenings' my pulse rises as I think of new routes and airport development.

Only joking....

As G-I-B has alreay said, the 767 has always used a stand on T3 - normally Stand 49 if I remember correctly as there are only a limited number of International stands that take a 767 and 554 and 55 are used by American.

Hopefully you will have a great holiday and a pleasant flight.


Scottie Dog

[G-BBAE]

So using a stand its on an air bridge, sorry for being annoying im just confused.

[Scottie Dog]

Yes - correct - unless of course the airbridge is out of action

[UFGBOY]

G-SATR off lease down to Brazil last night - to Varig..

Saw G-BNWH on 144 the other day!

[G-BBAE]

g-bnwh on 144 what does that mean?
Moving on is there ever any chance of UA operating into MAN.

[TURIN]

Stand 144.

Gate 44. NWH positions to LHR for routine maintenance by operating the LHR shuttle. Another a/c takes it's place or the JFK is canx for a day or two.

It used to have it's service checks carried out at MAN until BA in their infinite wisdom closed the hangar there. Ironically an AA 767 which returned to MAN with a goosed engine the other day is now using the FLS hangar instead of BA's.
:mad:

[G-BBAE]

Is their a spotters balcony at Terminal 3, if not how do i get to the nearest one.

G-BBAE. You have already been cautioned on another forum for your endless posts (Moderator TightSlot). You have had considerable assistance by members of the Site on a variety of inane topics. It might be time to do a little research of your own. We are all just getting a little worn out. I'm requesting you cease posting on this forum.
cheers H.

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Once you are through security there is a very large window in the lounge that overlooks the apron of T3 and part of T1
and also the runways so all in all not a bad view

G-I-B

[PRobe]

So, what happened to those slots EZY applied for. Thought they had to bung em back on Monday?

[Scottie Dog]

Read the post by TCM on 28th at 0927 - that answers your question.

[PRobe]

Scottie, Cheers, so it does.

[G-BBAE]

Has their ever been rumours of United Airlines operating some transatlantic flights into Manchester.

[Scottie Dog]

Rumours only. With Bmi looking at starting their service from Heathrow to India it was rumoured that aircraft shortages might result in UA taking over the MAN-IAD route.

I have seen nothing to substantiate this rumour, and indeed all postings seem to indicate that BD will be getting additional A330 equipment for the summer.

[littlepilot]

Hello All!

I was just wondering because Virgin Atlantic was operating routes direct to San Juan in January with the A340 and it was just January , just wondering if anyone knows if theyre going to keep the route going or doing another route from Manchester.

And applies are appreciated , Thanks

[Scottie Dog]

Not certain what 'applies' are when used in your context - is it a Midlands terminology?

If you wanted a reply then here goes.

VS have been operating a series of flights through Manchester in connection with cruises from San Juan. Whether the service will continue next year I'm afraid I do not know. I am unaware of any slots being held for the Summer season. Maybe they will be back in Winter 05/06.

Scottie Dog

[lexxity]

I have seen nothing to substantiate this rumour, and indeed all postings seem to indicate that BD will be getting additional A330 equipment for the summer.

Supposed to be getting the defferred (sp) 330 back from emirates, spare business seats are in the LHR hangar apparentely.

[eggc]

Latest passenger figures out....

January 2005 Passengers (% Change vs 2004)
Domestic 259,601 (+10.35)
Scheduled International 636,018 (+11.70)
Charter 438,667 (+3.86)
Private / Miscellaneous 790 (-30.80)
Total 1,335,076 (+8.71)

From the MAPLC media machine :-

Manchester Airport’s passenger figures grew by 7.5% during 2004 – a higher growth than both Heathrow and Gatwick airports. Just over 21 million passengers flew through the airport between January and December last year. During the same period, Heathrow’s passenger figures grew by 6.2% to just over 67 million and Gatwick’s by 5.0% to just over 31 million.

[bmiboyz]

Virgin's San Juan flights are a series of cruise charter flights for P&O and Princess cruise lines.

[G-BBAE]

Wasnt their a rumour if UA taking over US Airways a few years ago, if so what happened to it.

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

That all fell in a heap a couple of years back

God just imagine the blind leading the blind, what are their total losses over the last 3 or 4 years because I don`t think my calculator has that many noughts on it
G-I-B

[Danny_R]

United (3,086,226,000)
US Airways (1,658,803,000)

Losses for 2003 in $
:(

[zenoracle]

I see from the Jet2 web site that they have firmed up the times for the early morning Edinburgh service for the summer that was TBA.

[G-BBAE]

Didnt BA operate an LA flight a few years ago from Manchester using a 767, and also a Boston flight.

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Yes BA did do a flight to LA and I think the Boston flight was from Glasgow onwards to Toronto

G-I-B

[kala87]

As I'm sure many will recall, back in 1966 BOAC offered the brand-new Super VC10 daily from MAN to JFK. They also flew a daily 707 from MAN to Montreal and Toronto. Both flights were via PIK. In those days MAN got the latest jet aircraft for the North American routes.

[G-BBAE]

Lol maybe a 707 could fill in for G-BNWH. Before the 767 did the JFK routes didnt they use an L1011 and a DC10.
I also guessed they used a 767 on the LA route, however would it of been able to make it that far?

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Yes not a problem and of interest BA used a B747 200 for a while on the Toronto flight

G-I-B

[ATNotts]

G-AE:

Was your suggestion for a 707 replacing 'WH a slip of the typing finger??? I do hope so!

If you could find a PAX 707 to do it then I fancy there would be a long queue of enthusiasts waiting to fly MAN/JFK on it!! I can't see today's business passenger, used to the creature comforts of a modern wide-body being too keen on it though.

Sadly (?) Mr. Boeing stopped production of the old lady knocking on 30 years ago, and there aren't that many PAX examples around now (nor freighters come to think of it)

So, back to reality........

[G-BBAE]

Yes i was joking about the 707, but still i would jump at the chance to fly on one.
Looks like Tuesday will be a 24 departure for me with sw winds.

[gayrugbybloke]

Have Virgin Express any intention of ever taking up their slots at Manchester? I notice they have been applying for several years and have never started a service.

Anyone know?

[This Charming Man]

Applications scrubbed are

Virgin Express
Lithuanian
Afriqiyah
Alitalia to Rome
FLYbe to Belfast
Malev
Swiss to GVA
Easy Swiss to Basle
Iberia
Jet2 to GLA and MAD
Delta to JFK
Sunair
EZY to various
Air India

Reductions on existing routes

VLM from 10 to 8 daily
Air France 6 to 5 daily
Monarch 5 to 4 GIB a week
BA various routes have been chopped or reduced
inc STR,DUS,AMS,CPH,PSA,BLQ


TCM:(

[gayrugbybloke]

Things not quite so rosy at MAN then.

[semisonic]

I see MAN-BOS is returning this Summer, but why still the 757? With its success last year, why no upgrade to a 767, which the Miami service got from the start?

Disappoiting to hear Delta cancelled the JFK, but maybe this will allow CO to go double daily?

There must be some developments this Summer..always are.

[Scottie Dog]

Think positive.

Have we forgotten Global Spirit to Islamabad?

Hopefully, pardon the pun, this will get of the ground!

Twice a week I hear are the slots with a certain 747.

[Adola69]

Very well done MA plc.
Lots of applications from some big names are now down the pan! Why?
Although some might have been mischievous or just speculative in the first place, I'd say 50% weren't. ( Just a guess) and the fact that there are always hand backs, it still shows that if you can't give your customer what they want, than you won't see them for dust.
So MA are now reaping the reward of their Under-investment policy, - what a good effort!
Manchester HAS to cope with PEAK TIME DEMAND. IT is not a Capital airport, that has oudles and oudles of buisnessmen and civil servants ploughing back and forth on buisness/first class tickets, therefore the airlines have to concentrate on getting what little revenue from these sorts of passengers when the demand by them, requires it.
At present the airport infastructure cannot cope during these times, - therefore no slots available, END OF STORY.
Missed opportunitys' again, with very little planning in the short term to make one optimistic for the near or even medium future.

CLUCK CLUCK:uhoh: :\

[G-BBAE]

I wish i was going on a 757 to New York, dont get me wrong i do like 767s but going on a 757 is a really enjoyable experiance.
Do BA ever use 757s on transatlantic routes?

[LBA]

No they dont use 757s.

[This Charming Man]

Your posts are a wind-up , right ?

:suspect:

[Scottie Dog]

Have you ever considered transferring your thoughts and postings to the Spectators Balcony Forum?

I'm very sorry but your posting have very little, if anything, to do with Manchester Happenings. Perhaps when you have matured a bit more you will be able to post items that are of interest and relevance. Now go and enjoy your trip to New York.

Scottie Dog

Moderators - sorry if I have spoken out of turn, but this guy just seems to post anything on any forum

[MAN777]

Noticed B18708 China A/L B747 poking out of the ex FLS hanger this morning, engineer was busy with a patch of alloy and rivet gun next to rear hold door.

Incidently the ex FLS hanger is now sporting "SR Tecnique" titles on both sides, whats this all about.

[Caslance]

Apparently FLS Aerospace have been bought out by SR Technic (based in Zurich).

[Sir George Cayley]

Go easy on the lad.

I'm sorry to say 'AE is not only young enough to be your son but

yer grandson!...


Ah the innocence of yoof.


'AE stick with it but I would suggest lurking a bit for some time.

One day you may be in with the in crowd and Scottie and me will be in bath chairs on Southport Seafront!

Til then remember..

Say nowt til asked


Sir George Cayley

[TURIN]

B18708 China A/L B747 got holed by a hi-loader.

BA engineering carrying out a repair.

Shame that they have had to use someone else's shed after closing their own!:mad:

Heard today that the Air India through MAN is back on.:suspect:

The KHI-MAN-ORD will be routing through BHX soon. :sad:

[ManofMan]

TURIN,
Met with the PIA representative in Manchester last week and he assured me that the KHI-MAN-ORD will not be opperating from BHX due to restrictions on the 777 take off performance at BHX.

Guess time will tell.

Re the Air India, not sure what you have heard but as of last week i heard that they have handed back any slots which the might have had applied for.

Rgds


MOM

[chiglet]

Sir George,
I must take you to task, Scottie isn't that old...he just looks it :ok:
Cheers S
watp,iktch

[cbt_bear_MAN]

I have a feeling that Manchester might have some new services to Africa, soon..........

[Lord Toofouright]

Talking of BA using B757's on the Atlantic, it might not be as far fetched as one might think!
According to a certain person, whom I cannot name, but he tells me that there is a possibilty that when good old G-BNWH leaves for its UPGRADE, it will be replaced during its absence by the Titan B757 G-ZAPU !

Lady Toofouright will certainly NOT be flying to New York with the world's favourite if that's the case!!

Yours sincerely,
Lord Toofouright ( ILS, DME & NDB).:D

[lexxity]

If it is the same titan 757 we had on loan a couple of seasons ago then it is actually a very nice aircraft, nicer than an old 767.

If it is not the same one i'm thinking of then please ignore.

[Jet2]

Are Titan ETOPS approved on their 757???

[G-BBAE]

BAs answer to replacing the overbooked 767 is to put a lower capacity 757 on the route, why?
Surely BA obviously dont care about this route, and maybe in another year or so AA will be operating it.

[UFGBOY]

BA used the above BHX/JFK AND BHX/GLA on a regular basis in the late 1990's

The MAN/JFK was also a 757 when the 767 was in for MX -sometimes a double drop i.e. BHX/MAN-JFK , sometimes originating MAN

...more fuel to the fire!

[This Charming Man]

So after all the doom and gloom from the slot handbacks I thought (through some help from friends) I would list what is operating this summer that did'nt last and that will lead to about a 10% growth in movements and 20% growth in seats available.

Air Berlin - Berlin/Dusseldorf/Paderborn
Air Canada - Toronto
British Midland - Las Vegas/Antigua/St Lucia
FlyBE - Southampton
BJC - Malta
Belavia - Minsk 1 a week
BmiBaby- PRG was daily now twice daily
BMI - 2nd daily Toulouse
Continental - 2nd Newark TBC
Cathay - Hong Kong TBC
Maersk - Copenhagen
Eujet - Manston
EuroManx 3 per day
GB Airways - various
Global Spirit - Islamabad - twice weekly
Jet2 - various
SkyEurope - Krakow/Warsaw/Bratislava
CSA - from 13 to 17 a week
Estonian Air - Tallinn - 2 a week (with hope for 3)
Hellas Jet - from 2 to 3
Zoom - 4 weekly to Toronto and Vancouver (via Calgary).
First Choice - Extra Longhaul
Thomas Cook - Extra Longhaul
Monarch 2 more based a/c to various
Syrian from 3 to 4 a week

Can anyone think of anymore ?

brgds
TCM

[MichaelDoyle]

Hi
I hear Cathay are close to getting the Moscow slots and when they get them there will be an announcment soon.
Thanks
Michael

[Scottie Dog]

Well the posting by TCM certainly makes it look as if Manchester is still going to look forward to a positive Summer.

Also seen posted elsewhere that there are rumblings of a service to Africa and that Maersk are increasing their Copenhagen by adding an additional Sunder evening flight.

On a seperate note, I see that there is talk of the FLS hangar - now owned by SR Technics - being brought back into proper full use. Could this also involve the British Airways hangar?

[Curious Pax]

TCM's list implies that Air Berlin are dropping their Hamburg flight - is this correct? Their website is still taking bookings, and a few of the flights from May onwards are already showing an availability of less than 9 seats.

[This Charming Man]

Curious Pax

Well spotted, HAM is still alive and well for the summer05.

brgds
TCM

[Vuelo]

Jet2 did very badly today, they carried a meagre 27 passengers on their early afternoon Manchester to Gatwick....surely this can;t carry on...?

[eggc]

i would agree, these load factors cant continue....but i think they will improve rather that pull the plug so early - after all jet2 tried hard to get these rights and i find it hard to see how it wont work - although Vuelo you pax figures are scary !

[Going loco]

Why do you find it hard to see why it won't work? Dumping 900 seats per day into a city to city market which is already at over-capacity at precicesly the time the railways are getting their act together struck me as a dumb move? Remember, Jet2's pricing on this route is still at a rate which is less than cost. The idea is you fill the planes early doors and the hope the custom sticks when you move the pricing to something you can make money out of. If you're getting loads in the 20s with £9 fares, it's never going to work; believe me.

Plan A was to use the LGW slots for an LBA servivce which is exactly what they should have done.

loco

[flighy by night]

Jet2 did very badly today, they carried a meagre 27 passengers on their early afternoon Manchester to Gatwick....surely this can;t carry on...?

[QUOTE]
Jet2 officials vitiated Liverpool yesterday for talks, whats going on also BA looking to go LOC at LIVERPOOL also in talks.
Watch out Easy :E

[coasting]

Noticed on the Jet 2 web site that the Budapest is being knocked off on Tuesdays and Wednesdays from !st July until the end of the summer. Is this route underperfoming also? I think they should very quickly transfer this flight and the Gatwick flight to Leeds where their success appears to go from strength to strength.

[elgan]

To follow the Jet2 loads, when i flew with them to LGW on the 29/1 ther were 34 of us on board, and when i flew with them a week back today 02/2, there were only 24 of us on board.
More ads are needed i think!

[Vuelo]

Why not just operate a 24hr, hourly shuttle to Malaga? It'd do better than BUD and LGW. Budapest is boring and thats why noone wants to go!

I dot hold out much for the AMS routes wither......

[aeulad]

The Budapest route is performing very well, and one would assume Vuelo has never been to BUD assuming it is 'boring'. The Amsterdam route will come up against some stiff competition from KLM, but there is certainly a market for lower fares on the route. I would have thought a twice daily flight would have sufficed.

Regards

Mike

I also agree the LGW schedule should be reduced to twice daily and move to LBA.

Regards

Mike

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Citiexpress must we worried about them on Amsterdam with them pulling off
but if Easyjet can do it from Liverpool I`m sure Jet2 can

I don`t remember seeing an advert for Gatwick but have for just about all the others

G-I-B

[EGCC]

More Jet2 ads needed? Surely not! Manchester is full of them everywhere!

[elgan]

Well one or two further afield say here in North Wales, eg local news would go a long way! Flybe and RYR do it, theres an ad nearly every day in the North Wales Daily Post

[Sir George Cayley]

Does the Team think that part of Jet 2's problems revolve around the Ternimals they use?

Departing from MAN T2 but on arrival being bussed to T3 Domestic Arrivals must make life difficult especially when being met.

But there again 'spose for nine quid...............


Sir George Cayley

[dwlpl]

If a passenger has booked a flight for £9 does that passenger know/care what terminal he/she uses?

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Is that not the same as VLM etc do?

G-I-B

[Scottie Dog]

Beg to differ, but Jet2 operate from T1 at Manchester and therefore the only difference is which part of the 'old' terminal the arrive back into.

After all, T3 is only an expanded Pier A of the original 1962 Terminal - which is now T1.

Regards

[Bagso]

We are now all aware of the slot applications re 2005

Two points:-

Some airlines appear to have canx because of chronic Man airport restrictions whilst other have as usual just not taken plans forward due to internal commercial decisions !

Therefore my question to the team is...

"is that now IT in terms of future long haul growth"

On the basis that most long hauls arrive in the morning and we have no slot capacity available the inescapable conclusion is that we now stuck ?

Apart from maybe a straggler starting late morning or in the afternoon I am at a loss as to how things will change ...!


--------------------------


Also how well do we think the airport actually performs - does it do well due to the management structure being proactive and canvassing airlines to come in...?

..... OR does it do well despite the managment through organic growth that simply put would take place if they sat back and did nothing...!

Comments please ?

[Caslance]

Not quite, Scottie Dog.

You're correct in saying that T3 includes part of the original T1, but the bulk of T3 "proper" is a much newer building used by American, Finnair, SN Brussels and BA and it's franchisees.

[Scottie Dog]

Sorry, I should have gone into more details. Unfortunately I was/am just sneaking opportunities to post whilst at work - naughty boy I know.

[Caslance]

Tut tut tut!!!! ;)

[Adola69]

:( BAGSO, By ' Management through organic growth' I take it you mean through ****E, as in organic manure? And it's not IF they sat back and did nothing, that's what they are doing - well in the sense of getting a handle on the expansion theme! Lots of talk talk talk very little walk walk walk!:mad:

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Ladies/Gentlemen,

Why is there such shock and consternation amongst many regulars on this thread as a result of recent slot handbacks? The list of services which are set to operate from MAN this Summer is mightily impressive, and the projected percentage increases in movements and seats available is highly respectable by any yardstick.

When slot applications lists are posted on a board such as this (and yes, I love to read them as much as anybody else here), it appears that unrealistic expectations are raised amongst some less-experienced or over-enthusiastic contributors. I have been fortunate enough to view MAN's slot applications lists over a number of years, and one soon learns not to take the full package of proposals too seriously. If 50% of new/proposed services applied for come to fruition in any given season then you are doing very well indeed. The forthcoming Summer season looks eminently respectable to me with a healthy swathe of new services confirmed and afew more still possible.

Afew months ago, who would have thought MAN would host a Jet2 base with upto seven based B737's; a new GB Airways base; significant expansion by Monarch Scheduled; four new routes by Air Berlin, three by Sky Europe, and many others. And yet, despite all these positive developments, afew vitriolic individuals use this thread to lambast MA plc management for incompetence, lack of foresight etc etc. This is wholly unrealistic. In the real world, the slot applications list should be viewed as a bit of fun. The idea that all services featured therein will turn up is ludicrous. To suggest that MAplc is at fault if some do not shows poor understanding of this industry. [Please note that I am not an employee of MAplc. I will criticise them when I consider it appropriate as I did on PPRUNE on the subject of Summer 2003 security queues. But I will also give praise where it is due, and recent service increases merit praise here].

The fact that MAN has it's slot applications list regularly posted on this board is a mixed blessing. The information within is interesting, but the result is to raise false expectations. When a new service is confirmed it is somehow taken for granted because it was 'expected'. When an operator does not proceed with a proposal, billious comments directed against MAplc Managers inevitably follow. This is hardly fair, or reflective of reality in the world of commercial aviation.

Those of you who are able to do so should take a look back at slot applications lists for any major airport from years gone by. It is an eye-opening exercise to remind yourselves how many applications were bizarre, fanciful or even wilfully misleading to confuse competitors. Many scheduled carriers will apply for slots at say six airports with the intention of launching services for the two which ultimately suit them best. Charter carriers will seek slots for a rotation which is subject to winning a particular contract; the successful player retains it's slots, those who did not land the contract will hand slots back. Sometimes entrepreneurs apply for slots in the hope of bringing a 'paper airline' to reality; many of these come to nothing. Some airlines apply for a route they have no intention of operating to dissuade an upstart competitor from trying their luck. Some airlines hold on to slots which they have no intention of using until the last possible day so those slots cannot be easily be reallocated to a competitor. Such is the nature of the real world. Do not suppose that MAN is the only major airport at which a number of slot applications fall by the wayside. It is an industry norm. Unfortunately, MAN is unfairly subjected to critical scrutiny because it's slot applications list regularly appears on here, complete with the obscure 'fishing-trip' or 'kite-flying' applications which cause such ire and disappointment when they inevitably come to nothing.

So let's just take stock here. MAN has in prospect a Summer season blessed with a multitude of new scheduled services provided by a selection of top airlines. The airport's runway slots are fully-allocated across peak hours of the day; what an enviable position to be in just three years after the gloom of '911'. Some carriers were unable to secure peak-time slots because they were already fully allocated. Sad, but that's the real world. Better than having a load of peak-time slots going begging, isn't it? And yet some readily criticise the team who have brought this success to MAN in a climate of post-911 gloom and high oil-prices.

Don't be under any illusions. MAN and all major airports will lose a number of services in the months ahead. Here we have seen the loss of Iberia, V-Bird and certain BACX services etc. Global fuel prices make it inevitable that more such casualties will follow, other services will be lost, some airline companies will fail completely. When this happens, do not start calling for the heads of MAplc Managers. They are not responsible for the health of the global airline industry. Rather be thankful that we still have an airport at which vacated attractively-timed slots will be quickly snapped up by another operator. And remember: slot applications lists are an amusing pointer, but should always be taken with a 'pinch of salt'!

Regards to All. SHED.

[This Charming Man]

Quality post :ok:

[Scottie Dog]

Might I join with TCM in congratulating you in one of the best written postings that I have had the pleasure to read in a number of months - if not years.

:D

Scottie Dog

[Caslance]

I wish I could have posted that. :ok:

[chiglet]

Out of interest....
Jan 1st- now.....[approx] 8% up from '04
"Rumour" has it that I [and the REST of ATC] am/are going to be imitating the proverbial "Wallpaper Artist"....watch this space :ok:
PIA have started a Lahore-Manch-Lahore...very good loads [B743] :D
Don't know if it "replaces" the Brum svc or not.
Jet2 LGW is "averaging" 50plus pax/sector
watp,iktch
p.s.
Scottie, pm me for drinks

[Adola69]

I ( One of the Vitriolic brigade I assume) agree wholeheartedly with Mr SHED's comments (I do apologise right this instant if my assumption of gender is incorrect), in what is a well written piece.
Yes I agree that there are many new services to look forward to, by some top operators, but my continual theme throughout my postings is one of lost opportunities and vision. Naturally when you observe this going on you only have one doorstep on which to lay blame and that is of the persons running the organisation concerned.

I have been around long enough now to remember when the present T1 was opened by HRH Duke of Edinburgh. Aircraft movements were sparse, and passenger numbers were moderate, but it was built with the FUTURE very much in mind.
The same was said when Pier C was built. Many a day you could see only one B707 and one Super VC-10 parked on it, and when they left that was it until they returned the following day, but it was there for the FUTURE. All other deveopments were made very much with the future in mind. The board and management teams in those days were obviously very adept at planning in advance of requirements, and that is why Manchester stole a march on all the other airfields in this area AND beyond.

What I see these days is that having attained this enviable position, there is what look likes no planning for the future at all, just short term, behind the drag curve thinking. It is as though the mind-set of "Just-in-time" has arrived within the present management, except for the fact that it's turned out to be " Way-behind-time"!

A phrase used in the posting is "The airport's runway slots are fully-allocated across peak hours of the day" This is a very true statement, they are, but surely one should be asking the question how do we attain extra runway slots? The answer is fairly simple, invest in the infrastructure of the airfield.
It is of no use whatsoever landing 40+ aircraft an hour ( Easily attainable, as the present rate is around 32), if upon arrival they then have to wait 30 minutes for Stand / Gate.

a) There is no place on the airfield that can sustain a long period of waiting time for aircraft without impacting on the ones that follow, or for that matter on the one's waiting to go outbound.

b) Having spent the best part of 8+ hours getting here in the first place, passengers are not best pleased at being parked abeam the engine test-bay for long periods. ( What a welcome to Manchester that is).

Another example is of someone pushing back of stand 61 at the same time another pushes back off stand 8 both with slot-times to meet. What do you get but grid-lock in and out of T2, Pier C, West apron and Frieght area. that is 60% of the terminal parking area. VISIONARY!

Yes Manchester is in an enviable position after the events of 911, but tell me what airfield developments for the future have taken place since then? I think you will find the answer is zero. If it continues to stagnate at the present rate, then the only new carriers you will see at Manchester will be at the expense of the ones withdrawing who free up runway slots by doing so.

Mr ADOLA69:(

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

I agree with most of what you say
and there is no excuse for not having
extra stands as the airport has expected this for years however this situation is not just common at Manchester but at Heathrow and Gatwick, last week I watched a number of aircraft from my hotel window awaiting stands on T4 at Heathrow and what I noticed was an A321
which I thought was taxing out but infact was waiting for a stand for about 60-70 minutes

G-I-B

[Adola69]

Obviously very true GIB, but:-
1) You only have to look out of your Hotel bedroom window to the Right at Heathrow to see that planning, & construction are well underway to alleviate the problem. Yes it might not cure it, but it certainly means that the problem is being addressed.

2) My whole point was / is that the planning and building USED to be done AHEAD of demand at Manchester. They were the Countries leading Airfield for this. Many times they were ridiculed for doing so, but after a short interval of time passed, it proved them right, something which is non-existant in these post millenium years.

( Maybe the purchase of two lame-duck airfields is sucking-up all the resources that Manchester generates, but that's probably another story).

Extra stands ARE being constructed, as I write this, at Manchester but in all honesty they should have been down last year, and it should be another half dozen being constructed this year.
Whenever a B777-300 or AN-124 arrives it has to have a Follow Me from and to the runway, just in case it falls off the taxiway edges ( A bit narrow on some corners). Are we ready for A-380 ?
The answer is I don't know, but I seriously doubt it, either in taxiways, or Terminal parking.
Whenever there are repairs to existing taxiways required, they take place from 9.am - 5 p.m. thus taking forever to complete. The list could go on & on.

This is my last post on the subject, as I'm even beginning to depress myself now. We'll just see what happens, who shows up and what level of service they enjoy.
One thing I guarantee is that PLEASE it's got to get better!!??

Mr. ADOLA69:{

[sisyphus1965]

In defence of MAPlc they put all development on hold for two years after 9/11 in the anticipation that traffic would decline, which it did. Obviously they did not expect such a speedy recovery: in all honesty who did? It was only two years ago that passenger numbers actually falling were falling.

[Rockwell]

Mr ADOLA69

Naturally when you observe this going on you only have one doorstep on which to lay blame and that is of the persons running the organisation concerned.

You are obviously fully aware of the Labour Government's cap on MAPLC in further bank borrowings, which put a stop to all new projects after the construction of R2. No further major new build projects were allowed to proceed to the construction stage. The timescale for which has recently ended, hence the beginning of work. May I suggest you take your anti MAN vitriol and stuff it up Phoney B'Lair's back passage where it rightly belongs, as it is his government which has been responsible for most of your woes.

[Adola69]

Fantastic news then Rockwell.
I look forward with great anticipation to the burgeoning plethora of Tower cranes being erected to extend T2, and the concreteification of the whole of the land mass up to the M56.
Marvellous, - a reet shot int' tharm!
:)

Mr. Happy ADOLA69.

PS My 'vitriol' has been sent for purifcation - long may it last!

[Vuelo]

Wouldn't hold your breath!

[Vuelo]

Any news on Cathay Pacific? Is it still happening?

[cbt_bear_MAN]

Surely we won't see Cathay now til the start of the winter schedules? I wouldnt have thought they would have had time to promote it for an April start.

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

They don`t have to start in April
could be June or July

G-I-B

[This Charming Man]

I am told that all problems re slots have been solved. The Airport is waiting for Cathay to announce :suspect:

[eurostar builder]

BRe.....eg to differ, but Jet2 operate from T1 at Manchester and therefore the only difference is which part of the 'old' terminal the arrive back into.
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
At Bournemouth the you depart from the Departure lounge and arrive in the car park.

[cbt_bear_MAN]

Are the Cathay Pacific flights to operate from T1 or T3 as that is the 'OneWorld' terminal I asume? Also, are they still to fly via Moscow or go direct to HKG?

This will be a much welcome return and mean no more changing in Dubai for me to get to HKG!! Yaaaaayy!!

[eggc]

Are CPX to operate with their own a/c....or are AFL 320's to be used as a codesharing connecting feeder, as per "rumour" just before Christmas ?

Maybe you wont transit thru Dubai again - but you might well see the delights Moscow has to offer...

[freddiebrods]

Sorry guys, I have just skipped to the end of the topic, it has probably been mentioned already, but when will easyJet open a base @ MAN? :confused: :confused:

[eggc]

EZY was rejected by MAplc...they didnt need their business :}

[Scottie Dog]

eggc

I beg to differ. EZY were not rejected by MAplc as far as I am aware.

The reason for EZY not operating into Manchester is because of their inability to get the slots that they needed for a viable operation. Slot allocation is done by ACL (Airport Coordination Ltd) who operation on behalf of the airport to provide an unbiased and transparent service.

(refer to their website) : http://www.acl-uk.org/ for more details.

If you are referring to rumours that EZY had wanted to serve Manchester before they started Liverpool operations then I can not comment, however it would be interesting to hear from others as to whether an airport has the right to refuse to handle an airline.


Scottie Dog

[eggc]

Scottie

sorry if you didnt get my sarcasm...

i did actually know the "real" reason...as discussed heavily earlier on this thread

[This Charming Man]

In reply to CBT Bear and EGGC

I dont know the Terminal but flight CX270/1 (I think those are the no's) will ops on A340 aircraft MON,WED,FRI 0855in 1005 out.

brgds
TCM

[Vuelo]

Just an hour turn round for the CX flighjt? That's optimistic, isn't it?!

[aeulad]

The CX route has not been confirmed, can we just hang on until it is, I know this is a rumour forum, but it has been on the cards for ages, is getting a bit frustrating :sad:

Regards

Mike

[This Charming Man]

Veulo

looks like 1hr10 to me . Plus the crew slip is in SVO so I can't see an issue the T/R time.

I here that the new twice weekly Estonian Air service to TLL has been upped to 3 weekly , now making it Sat Tue and Thu. The Thu service will only run from 12th May to 29t Sept though.

The proposed twice weekly Royal Jordanian service has been scrubbed.

brgds
TCM

[GrahamK]

VS to BGI from this winter has appeared on Amadeus, 1 x weekly on 744 a/c

[lexxity]

VS to BGI from this winter has appeared on Amadeus, 1 x weekly on 744 a/c

That's very interesting, I had heard rumors that VS would take over this route from BD. I also heard the ANU was going the same way.

[Scottie Dog]

New Manchester/Isle of Man service now available for sale from 27th March. 3 times daily - on weekdays, have not had time to check other dates.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

SKY EUROPE has cancelled plans to launch MAN-WAW schedules this Summer. Services ex-MAN to Bratislava and Krakow are expected to go ahead as previously announced. Contacted Sky Europe to arrange a refund for my own MAN-WAW booking and was told that the service has been pulled "due to problems at Warsaw Airport."

Meanwhile, the Euromanx service mentioned by Scottie Dog above is bookable at £49 return all-in ; unless you want a day-trip in which case a punitive flexible tariff is applied. British Airways has responded by advertising special deals on the BA Manchester website, but these were coming in significantly more expensive than Euromanx on the dates I checked.

[Mouser]

Have LPL/Wizz won that one already.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

... or LOT Polskie Linie Lotnicze!

[Mouser]

LOT don't they use one of those little aeroplane's.

[airhumberside]

LOT don't they use one of those little aeroplane's.
EMB-170's

[Mouser]

Manchester - Warsaw, it's smaller than that, 145.

[Caslance]

Ah, but size isn't everything, Mouser. ;)

Don't worry, mate, MAN sees plenty of much bigger aircraft than that, from all around the world............ :p

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

LOT will operate EMB170 in summer

G-I-B

[Mouser]

Caslance,
I was merely suggesting that Wizz Air might be the reason for Sky Eurpoe's decision, and nothing to do with Lot due to the size of a/c used on this route.

[Caslance]

I think you're probably right, Mouser.

And I was just teasing..... :ok:

[Capitol 203]

Mouser and Caslance,

I don't think it's anything to do with Wizz Air's flights from Liverpool. If you check SkyEurope's website you'll note they seem to be having a rather public disagreement with Warsaw Airport at the moment. They mention they wont expand operations there until things are resolved.

[Vuelo]

Still no news on Cathay?

[pwalhx]

Just out of interest I was at MAN the other day waiting for a flight and was idly looking through Flight Check which showed a twice weekly flight on CX to HKG.

Cant remember exact details but I think flight was CX270/1 with an anticipated start end of March.

I know it's no real indicator it will happen, but thought was worth a mention.

[HH6702]

Hi

Can anybody tell me where i can print a timetable for arrivals and deps from manchester for this sunday?

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Try this

http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/web.nsf/Content/LitArichiveSchedTimetableWinter0405


G-I-B

[MichaelDoyle]

Hi
http://www.ringwayreports.co.uk/winter2004.htm
Gives full timetable for this winter an:
http://www.ringwayreports.co.uk/whatsdue.htm
For any extra movements comeing in.
Hope this helps
Thanks
Michael

[HH6702]

Thanks for those links very helpfull.

What about the flights for thomas cook and monarch etc..?

Sorry for being a pain

[MichaelDoyle]

Hi
I wouldnt know how to get hold of charter timetables.My best advice would be when you get to MAN to buy a book in the Aviation Viewing Park shop called flight check which will give you the info of every aircraft coming in on that day including the charters.The book is £2.00 and gives lots of good info.I get it every month.Hope this helps.
Thanks
Michael

[HH6702]

Thanks michael

That book seems just what i need.

lets hope for a good never been to manchester for ages.

[MichaelDoyle]

Hi
Cheers HH6702.Much appreciated.Hope you have a good.
Thanks
Michael

[This Charming Man]

I here an announcement will be made soon. Looks like the 2x daily flights will be on 757 equipment. Proposed start date of the 2nd service is 10th June.

COA20 arr 0740 COA21 dep 0930

COA100 arr 0955 COA101 dep 1330

Still no news from Cathay though :confused:

brgds
TCM

[Lord Toofouright]

Errrmmm. It's been at least four weeks, if not five since those lovely freighter B747-2's have graced the deck at Manchester. Does anyone know if we have seen the last of them, or will they return with a vengance.
It wasn't long ago that on a Saturday morning you'd have Cathay, followed by Dragonair and then Mas all arriving one after another. It fair shook the earth.
Oh well we can always hope for Nippon Cargo, or even an AN-12 occaisionally.

:ok:

[Vuelo]

The CEO of Manchester Airport is to take questions on BBC GMR from 1100 til 1200. Listen at the BBC GMR website. So far, he just rambles and errrrrss his way through his answers!

[Scottie Dog]

From the Manchester Airport website:

Continental Airlines To Go Double-Daily To New York


Effective June 10, 2005 (westbound), Continental will operate two daily Boeing 757 flights from Manchester to New York/Newark in place of a single daily Boeing 777 service. The new schedule, which will operate year round, represents seat capacity increases on the route of 21 per cent over Summer 2004 and 46 per cent over Winter 2004/2005.

The schedule of the existing Manchester-New York/Newark service will change effective June 10, 2005 (westbound). Flight CO21 will depart Manchester daily at 09:30 a.m., arriving at New York/Newark at 12:05 p.m. the same day. Flight CO20 will depart New York/Newark daily at 7:45 p.m., arriving at Manchester at 7:40 a.m. the following day.

The schedule of the additional Manchester-New York service will be as follows: flight CO101 will depart Manchester daily at 1:30 p.m., arriving at New York/Newark at 4:05 p.m. the same day. Flight CO100 will depart New York/Newark daily at 10:00 p.m., arriving at Manchester at 9:55 a.m. the following day.

[Scottie Dog]

Figures now published for February 2005 Terminal Passengers.
Terminal Passenger Statistics

February 2005 Passengers
% Change vs 2004

Domestic 259,813
3.91

Scheduled International 644,459
5.58

Charter 430,971
-0.67

Private / Miscellaneous 2,515
130.31

Total 1,337,758
3.27

A modest increase, but remember that last February was a Leap Year, so we are minus 1 day in comparison.

Scottie Dog

[chiglet]

L24r
Malasian frightener was in yesterday... along with Cathay, Dragon, China et al
watp,iktch

[eggc]

BMI look to be showing a BA style attitude...Washington downgraded to a 75...HUH !!!

Taken from bmilhr website....

The additional long haul aircraft, a *damp leased Boeing 757 from Icelandair, will be based at Manchester and will operate the successful route to Washington, DC. This will enable one of bmi's Manchester Airbus A330 aircraft to be based at London Heathrow to commence the new routes to Mumbai and Riyadh.

[Vuelo]

Beginning of the end for the MAN to IAD route then...

I bet they on't even paint it in BMI livery or offer the Business Class service that you get on the A330s.

Come on Virgin, get a move on and start some more MAN services!

[coasting]

Appears the Man- Budapest Jet 2 flight is now going to lose the Monday flight, along with Tuesday and Wednesday service. Also the stop date has been brought forward from July 1st to May 1st. Is it really doing that bad? Wonder whether they are thinking that this should have been done from Leeds; where they have no competition, along with the Gatwick and the Edinburgh which look very poorly utilised when I have used them recently, even the popular morning and evening services. Hopefully their Valencia and Pisa flights will show good loads when they start as they are destinations that are not overly subscribed by other locos in the region.

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Wasn`t aware they had any competition
on Budapest out of Manchester either

I think route is ideal for a weekend break but not for any longer and probably not enough business traffic

G-I-B

[Going loco]

Jet2's MAN-BUD operated with a 59% load in Feb and 48% in Jan.

loco

[lagerlout]

this is traditionally the business end of the year in terms of bums on seats i think jet 2 are being a bit hasty here!

[This Charming Man]

I hear Air Berlin are looking to reduce the daily TXL to 3x week
by mid Summer :(


brgds
TCM

[Vuelo]

Seems crazy that Jet2 are scrapping the MAn to BUD service in the summer! Budapest is not a pretty place to visit in the winter, and is definitely more attractive in the summer, but that doesn;t matter, 'cos Jet2 will have stopped operating by then from Manchester to BUD!

[Scottie Dog]

Vuelo

What are you talking about?

Jet2 are still operating BUD after 2nd May, although admittably at reduced frequency of Thu-Sun inc - according to their website.

[This Charming Man]

A contact in Istanbul tells me that Atlas Jet are to start IST-MAN-IST from late April 05. The flights will be sheduled and although the frequencyand a/c type is to be confirmed they plan to run the route in direct competition with Turkish Airlines !

[ATNotts]

Air Berlin are indeed reducing Berlin-MAN to 3 x weekly (Fri-Sun) effective from the end of April - source airberlin.com.

As an aside, in the current edition of their in-flight mag. they are extolling the virtues of taking a break in Manchester, and surrounding region, including Liverpool, Chester and The Lake District. So despite the setback, it looks as though they're here for a while yet.

[Vuelo]

Air Berlin might do well to look at their appalling slots for the MAN TXL servvice! Who wants to check in at 5am on a Monday morning after a weekend in Berlin??!! I rest my case....

[chiglet]

Vuelo
Quote
Who wants to check in at 5am on a Monday morning after a weekend in Berlin
OR even at Dusseldorf, Amsterdam, Brussels, Paris, Frankfurt,Stockholm
or indeed any early arr at MAN from "Europe"
watp,iktch

[pwalhx]

I went on the AB service to/from Berlin in December and agree its very early to get up and get to Tegel. However the aircraft (737 MAN-TXL and F100 TXL-MAN) were reasonably full.

Out of interest how are the other AB routes to Dusseldorf, Hamburg and Paderborn doing? Wasn't there some talk of other German destinations?

On Jet2 to Budapest, if you look at their low fare finder for the Summer months there aren't that many cheap prices available so rumours of the demise of this route may be premature.

[eggc]

"Rumour" has it that Indian Airlines has applied for 3 x weekly slots ex MAN, hopefully commencing in December !!

[Vuelo]

The Indian Airlines rumour has been doing the rounds for ages....

[Ringwayman]

...except this time, it's been been revealed by the Minister of Civil Aviation in India, Praful Patel.

Anyway, Hellas Jet is going 3 weekly to Athens for the summer with a Friday flight and retiming the services to the morning.

[airish]

Indian Airlines have applied for BHX and MAN. MAN would be 3 flights a week while BHX would be 4 flights a week.

<http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1052808.cms>

<http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2005/03/16/stories/2005031602580300.htm>

[Vuelo]

no doubt MAN has a better chance what with BHX having had Air India.

Are Olympic still oiperating to Manchester?

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Yes Thursday and Saturdays

G-I-B

[Hood]

bmi baby to Edinburgh

bmi baby are currently evaluating operating MAN/EDI as they (regional barbie jet) are losing traffic to jet2.

[Vuelo]

Not much use for interlini ng from the Star Alliance long hauls and Euro services if WW take over the route.

[GoEDI]

bmi baby are currently evaluating operating MAN/EDI as they (regional barbie jet) are losing traffic to jet2.

Does this mean that Jet2 are doing well on the new route then?

[kala87]

I doubt if Indian Airlines would be much of an asset to MAN or BHX. They are are very different kind of outfit to Air India. Anyone who has done much domestic flying around India will probably have suffered their so-called "service" at some time. Customer relations are virtually non-existent. Indefinate delays, uneatable food, rugby-scrum type check in queues. I would guess they would have to offer rock-bottom fares to attract the punters, when you have the choice of flying a quality airline like Emirates, even with the flight change at DXB.

[lexxity]

bmi baby are currently evaluating operating MAN/EDI as they (regional barbie jet) are losing traffic to jet2.

Where did you get that from? As far as i'm aware EDI is one of the busiest regional routes, usually full and full of Y and C at that.

[Vuelo]

What's the latest with Cathay at Manchester? Is it going ahead?

[rampman]

Cathay in july no fixed date yet 3x week from T3 :\ via moscow

:ok: rampman

[Vuelo]

T3?? So does that mean they will have to use stand 55 if they are to use a A343?

[Caslance]

Hmmmm..... but where are the advertisements for the Cathay service?

Where are the slots?


I'd not be holding my breath, personally.

[DELTABOY]

Bring back ORION AIRWAYS!:{

[Caslance]

Why, exactly???? :confused:

[Lord Toofouright]

Someone went ot a lot of trouble recently to take down the logo from the side of the big blue hangar at Manchester that decreed 'FLS Aerospace' to be the occupying force, to inform all the passing trade that ' SR Tecnics ' were the new incumbants of the said Hangar space (Well at one end of it at any rate).
Can anyone enlighten me as to why they would wish to spend valued money on doing this, as no business seems to have passed through their hands since doing so, except for a DC-10 that sat at the rear for some two weeks or so?
Are they ever going to get any meaningfull work?
Suggestion: Actively seek out to supply the USAF with a package of maintenence support and handling for their many transatlantic transit stops, which would include the back-up required for all models of C-130, C-17, C-5. Chuck in a free round or two of golf at Mere Country Club for the crews and tour of Robby's brewery in Stockport and I reckon they'd be onto a winner. (Now all they have to do is find somewhere to park them) !

Lord Twofouright:ok:

[lexxity]

Chuck in a free round or two of golf at Mere Country Club for the crews and tour of Robby's brewery in Stockport

Robbys, are you sure? I suppose it would introduce them to not gnats piddle beer, it'd keep my aunt happy anyway, she's the robbys tour guide!

They could park the a/c on the area of staff west that they are busy flattening.

[Scottie Dog]

March figures look to be pretty good.

From what I hear we should be looking at an increment of in the region of 10-11pc for both passengers and movements.

Chiglet - how are the wallpaper plans you alluded to going? The beer is starting to get a wee bit warm.

Scottie Dog

[chiglet]

Scottie,
At a [very] quick look we are 9% up on last March. The "dreaded Lergy" don't go too well with Robbies
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

[PRobe]

I hear South Africa is happening but not sure which carrier. And CPT rather than DRB. Annoucement due soon.

[This Charming Man]

This sounds like the service that sould of started last Oct !
From what I understand the PLC had to send people down to the DfT to find out why there was problems with the license .
Turns out there had been a complete turnover of staff in that dept and they had it in their heads to protect our national carrier !
:E

[Scottie Dog]

TCM

I presume we are talking of a charter carrier - rather than scheduled IATA?

[PRobe]

It will, by the sounds, be almost a whole new ball game.



TCM, you may have heard well.

[This Charming Man]

Scottie

the airline concened was South African. The airline had given all the handling contracts out at MAN then the DfT started to back certain airlines objections , result , service delayed :E

brgds
TCM

[Scottie Dog]

I see that the above have started operations - with a Jetstream 31 on the 3W705 which has just landed. I will leave the speculation on RJ/Dash-8 operations to the seperate Euromanx Information thread.

Have made my monthly cycle up to the terminals. It was interesting to see certain development work that is currently underway, and which appears to have gone unreported.

The Station - construction of 15+ checkin desks on the ground floor. Work started 1st week March and due for completion in 18 weeks.

Terminal 1 - Arrivals area being extended out towards the car park. Work started February and again due for completion in approx 18 weeks. I understand this work may involve a domestic arrivals facility - anybody care to comment.

Apron - As previously report, the work is progressing well on provision of extra stands at the north-west end of Taxiway N. There also appears to be work taking place on the grass island behind stand 6. Rumour had it that the airport was considering a couple of drive-through stands for 737 sized aircraft in this area. Could this be preparatory work?

Anybody else noticed any other development - apart from the new Travel Inn (?) at T2?

Scottie Dog

[MAN777]

They are preparing ground (landside)adjacent to T2 at the western end. ??

[Scottie Dog]

I think you will find that the land you are refering to is for the new Travel Inn hotel.

[EGCC4284]

If I've heard the name Easyjet once this week whilst on the ramp, I've heard it a dozen times from different sources????

[GrahamK]

Apparently 3-4 drive through 737 stands near the end of T1 at Gates 31 etc

[MAN777]

Scottie dog,

No, I think the Travel inn / lodge is next to the cargo centre/motorway junction, opposite the new catering warehouse, according to the billboard adjacent to the site.

The area I mean is right next to the multi storey car park on T2 landside.

cheers

with regard to the 737 drive through stands. its about time this area was used for something useful, it has been used most recently for baggage trolley storage !! A line of Jet2 tails seems far more profitable.

[dwlpl]

GB Airways have cancelled the MAN-Lanzarote and MAN-Las Palmas services for the winter 2005/2006.

[initial]

Area next to T2 just being tarmaced to provide xtra short stay spaces, nothin 2 get excited about! Work to extend T1 arrivals will take 18 months, but will be able to cope with domestic arrivals 4 jet2, bmibaby, Aer Arran, EU Jet, Flybe, etc by end of may

[Scottie Dog]

Thanks for that - you confirm what I heard this morning from an airport source. I did think it was a slightly small area for a hotel!

[Vuelo]

Are we talking South African Airways, or a 'South African Airline' such as Nationwide? And, what are the slots, destination details?

[Scottie Dog]

My source at the airport - usually very reliable, and not given to talking rubbish - says that the reports of problems with the Dft are a load of old cobblers!!

South African Airways are no doubt on the airport's hit list, but I think that is as far as it goes at the moment.

[Vuelo]

And can the same be said for Cathay {acific, which also seems to be just a rumour?!

[PRobe]

CPT. An Excel-ent idea?

[Barthree]

Heard that the check in desks in the station (referred to by scottie dog earlier) are to primarily form a dedicated check in area for Air Atlanta/Travel City Direct

[Scottie Dog]

There has been a lot of talk as to how busy Manchester is likely to be this summer. After a bit of research I have produced the following chart which might be of interest.

I have taken a random date - and retained it for each month of the main summer season - the week containing the 20th of the respective month. The chart is then broken into hourly periods when there are NIL arrival slots, followed by those when there are less than 4 slots in an hour. This is then repeated for departures. A ‘*’ indicates that there are 4 or more slots available on a day - Monday is taken as the first day of the week.

For an example in the week of 20th July decode is as follows:

Arrivals (0 slots) - Mon = 4 hours with 0 slots, Tue = 2 hours with 0 slots, Wed = 3 hours with 0 slots, etc
Arrivals (1-3 slots) - Mon = 2 hours with 1-3 slots, Tue = 4 hours with 1-3 slots, Wed = 3 hurs with 1-3 hours

This means there that on a Monday there are a total of 6 hours during which there are 3 or less slots available and this increases to 7 hours on a Thursday. These slot restrains are during the period 0500-2100hrs Zulu. I seems as if a maximum number of movements of 60 per hour can be expected (arrivals and departures combined), with upto 37 departures in an hour and slightly less arrivals.


======= Arrivals 0 Slots======Arrivals 1-3 Slots
20-Apr== * * 1 1 * * * ====== 1 1 * 1 1 * 1
20-May== * 1 1 1 2 1 * ====== 3 2 4 4 1 1 2
20-Jun===1 1 1 1 1 2 * ====== 6 4 4 4 3 1 3
20-Jul=== 4 2 3 2 3 1 * ====== 2 4 3 5 1 3 2
20-Aug== 3 2 3 2 4 3 * ====== 5 4 3 5 2 * 3
20-Sep== 4 4 3 2 3 2 2 ====== 4 3 3 5 3 1 3



======= Departures 0 Slots===Departures 1-3 Slots
20-Apr== * * * 1 * * * ====== * 2 * * 1 * *
20-May==* 1 1 1 1 * * ====== 2 1 3 3 4 3 *
20-Jun== * 1 2 1 1 3 * ====== 4 4 3 4 6 2 2
20-Jul===4 2 2 2 3 2 * ====== * 4 4 5 3 3 *
20-Aug== 3 3 2 2 4 5 * ====== 2 2 3 4 3 1 2
20-Sep== 3 3 2 2 3 2 * ====== 2 2 4 5 4 3 2


I hope the above is both self explanatory and of interest. My apologies for the fact that the chart is not very well balanced - I have had problems with the layout!

[Scottie Dog]

The work behind stand 6 is confirmed as being for new drive-through remote parking area. If I remember correctly this will provide space for 2 737s.

[TCX G-FCLH]

I hope its been confirmed! lol
Been working there for about 4/5 weeks now. Its two park and go stands for 737/A320 max

EGCC4284 - I\'ve heard the easyJet rumour a few times, nothing thats stuck though. You work on the ramp? Who for? I work out there too.

Mark

[rampman]

was talking to someone from thomascook the other day and "rumour" has it that TCX are going to hand back there A330 when the lease is up and are looking at getting B767 how true this is only time will tell.

and on a CX note a date of 7th july has been penciled in for flights to start the european manager of CX was at manchester 2 weeks ago looking at T3 and also around T2

:ok: rampman

[EGCC4284]

TCX G-FCLH

Check PM

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

With reference to dwlpl's message dated March 29th ...

dwlpl ... I am puzzled by your message stating that GB Airways has cancelled it's Winter 2005/6 schedules from Manchester to Lanzarote and Las Palmas. To the best of my knowledge, the company has never announced any intention to operate these routes in the first place. Having trawled through their press releases, I can find references to Tenerife, Paphos and Funchal featuring in the Winter programme, but only as passing remarks in discussing other matters. Indeed, I have not seen any reference to GB Airways having announced their Winter programme at all, let alone proposals to drop routes which they have never announced or put on sale.

This is not intended as a personal criticism of you in any way, I am simply interested to know if GB have actually published a Winter programme and where the details are reported. Please advise if you can clarify your comments.

Thanks and best regards.

[Ringwayman]

Must spring to the defence of dwlpl! I first heard about these "new" routes on 23rd March when I noticed that they had been chopped - I've subsequently had it verified that the routes had been launched but would not have started upon the start of the winter timetable.

The provisional programme I've seen shows 2 weekly to Malta and Funchal, 3 weekly to Tenerife and 5 weekly to Malaga. Dubrovnik not operating this winter and Paphos operations aren't yet known.

[dwlpl]

I presume thet must have announced them to have cancelled them, anyway this has been taken from the BA website.

"GB Airways have cancelled their Manchester to Lanzarote and Manchester to Las Palmas services for the Winter 2005/06 schedule.

GB Airways have put procedures in place to help customers whose travel plans have been disrupted by this flight cancellation."


Follow the link to confirm.

http://latestflightnews.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/latestflightnews.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_sid=fcZWK2Ch&p_lva=&p_faqid=3085&p_created=1111583590&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9ncmlkc29ydD0mcF9yb3dfY250PTEmcF9zZWFyY2h fdGV4dD1nYiZwX2NhdF9sdmwxPTI4JnBfcGFnZT0x&p_li=

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Hi Ringwayman,

Just to confirm, it is not my intention to criticize dwlpl in any way; hopefully he will not require defence! But I remain puzzled as to what document/medium these routes have been "dropped" from. Have they ever been announced or put on sale at any stage? Were they "bookable"? Thanks for any info you can provide which clears this up.

SHED.

dwlpl - Thanks for your response. You must have been typing at the same instant as myself (answering "Ringwayman\'s" post).

Regards, SHED.

Note: the above message edited following the appearance of dwlpl response.

[dwlpl]

Further down the announcement it says:

" Customers booked to travel on the BA6830 Manchester to Lanzarote and the BA6831 Lanzarote to Manchester or BA 6832 Manchester to Las Palmas or the BA 6833 Las Palmas to Manchester may:

Refund of the original GB Airways flight, plus any parts of the journey not made which are on the same ticket as the original flight:

Refunds are available within a year from the original flight date.

The refund must be provided to the original form of payment"

So at some stage the seats must have been bookable in order for a refund to take place.

[Vuelo]

Calm down, girls!

[kpiko3]

Might of missed this guys,

But I hear BWIA have cancelled all seat sales in the UK apart from LHR. Reason being is they are struggling financially and have to return 9Y-JIL their second 340 which would mean PIK, MAN and BFS all would get cancelled.

Anyone heard anything?
Kpiko3

[EGCC4284]

The is apparently a predicted 12% increase in traffic this summer compared to last summer.

Some remote stands are being split into 2's for 757's 767's etc etc.

Better make sure they have the bus drivers ready.

It's going to make refuelling a nightmare if the hydrant pot's cant be reached.

[Scottie Dog]

EGCC4284

I presume you are refering to available seats, as against movements?

I understand that the increase in movements will not be nearly as high - but still reasonable.

Scottie Dog

[EGCC4284]

I have been told that the approximate 12% increase is in aircraft movements and departure slots.

Also Easy are not bothering taking up the offered slots??? what ever this means.

[Scottie Dog]

Now that I am home and have a chance to look at figures I see that the latest suggestions are of an increase in movements of between 6-7% and an increase in available seats of approximately 13%. Certainly any talk of 12% is a wild exaggeration, although the initial application for slots did peak at 34% over last summer.

These figures do of course change on an almost daily basis as airlines/tour operators adjust schedules according to the whims of the travelling public.

EGCC4284 - easyJet have been off the table, certainly for the summer, since around mid-December. Now this coming winter might be a whole new kettle of fish (and that is pure speculation before the rumours start again).

[Going loco]

Typical pax numbers in summer out of MAN = 2m, with a 50/50 spilt between charter and sched.

They'll be doing bloody well just to keep the charter numbers on a par with last year and if anything the switch from charter to loco on the thickest routes (AGP, ALC, FAO) is likely to see a big drop. Just look at the LGW charter numbers over the last 18 months - a good barrometer of what is to come at MAN as the loco business gains momentum at LPL, MAN, LBA and DSA.

So if no growth on the charter side, to get a 13% increase overall, really means they need to grow the 1m scheduled base by about 250,000 - 300,000 passengers a month. Sounds a tall order to me.


loco