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Originally Posted by Asturias56
(Post 11630702)
I was always taught that consultants were only employed to produce reports that backed the views of the CEO of any organisation - that way he/she had an"outside" report to brandish at people..................
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Very true. In 40 years of working in pharmaceuticals, consultants either came up with a report that backed the CEO / Board's wishes or told the CEO / Board what the employees had been telling management for years but to no avail! Thousands, indeed millions could have been saved by listening to the people "on the ground" / "at the coal-face." There is most definitely a place for the 'right' type of consultants but be very careful in their selection.
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A little more from the Mayor today.
Tui want to come back (no doubt subject to commercials) and have been kept in touch with. Final stages of agreeing with the Operator. Will be quiet for next 2 months or so. |
Originally Posted by MDS
(Post 11630369)
If there was no commercial case for the original DSA to operate, I fail to see how anything has changed.
Half a dozen airlines tried it and none, besides TUI, succeeded. TUI alone couldn't keep the lights on. My concern is that a reopening could be seen as nothing more than a vanity project, burning taxpayers money to the tune of tens (if not hundreds) of millions of pounds, running at a perpetual loss. The guarantees they'd have to provide prospective airlines would be incredibly burdensome if not downright eye-watering. I understand there's a lot of local support but kind words don't pay the bills and if the yields weren't sufficient to keep the cogs turning in the past, why would it change now? Cargo is one possibility but you already have the UK's largest air freight hub less than 60 miles down the road. I'd rather see a solid plan for viability instead of agreeing to burn shedloads of cash upfront on the basis it might work this time. I say this as someone who used DSA regularly in the past and supported the airport as much as possible. If it's viable, I'm all for it. If it's not, let's get real. |
WIZZ's Heathrow base? Cannot recall ever seeing a WIZZ aircraft at LHR, yet alone them having a base there.
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Ahh the lets blame Peel brigade.. The DSA closure was announced on the back of Wizz pulling the base. Wizz didn't try to come back. There was a contract in place to up the base to x3 AC. clearly not the fees that pushed them out. They launched the base at the wrong time, getting bums on seats was a huge issue. all you had to do was look for the dirt cheap fares they were offering. Flybe base, Peel massively incentivised them to DSA. they was actually supposed to launch LBA. Peel did try. The new operator will not get anyone or anything different. the airport is a failure, the catchment area isn't there. Wizz didn't withdraw for LHR.. never has been a Wizz plane there..
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I disagree on why Wizz pulled out. They were establishing new routes but at the same time being beaten up by not enough crew/planes at the established bases. They made a logical decision to concentrate on those (Doncaster was not the only airport they pulled from).
On the Peel front, only time will tell. We know the theory, and now sit to see how it plays out. There are break clauses and if it's not a success the exposure is limited, and Peel get to develop the land. If it is a success, great... |
I disagree on why Wizz pulled out. They were establishing new routes but at the same time being beaten up by not enough crew/planes at the established bases. They made a logical decision to concentrate on those (Doncaster was not the only airport they pulled from). If Peel have put money into the airport over all these years just to get hold of the land, that seems a rather optimistic interpretation of the value of brown field sites in South Yorkshire. I've heard of playing a long game, but blimey... |
Originally Posted by RAFAT
(Post 11640650)
As someone who used DSA regularly you must be aware that when Peel stated that the airport wasn't commercially viable, this was their long-term aim and they did all that they could to reach that goal. They wanted the land, not an airport. Yes airlines came and went, but my belief is that it was the exorbitant charges by Peel that forced them out, not a failure to get bums on seats. Wizz withdrew purely to bolster their LHR base and when they wanted o come back, Peel wouldn't negotiate with them. Wizz were a success at DSA. There's also the UPS hub that went to EMA in 2017/2018, that was meant to go to DSA but again Peel quoted massive costs. So it wasn't a failure of the airport, it was a managed closure by Peel. This can also be evidenced by the speed at which they got rid of the assets, they'd been planning it for a long time.
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Originally Posted by EMACargo
(Post 11640755)
not quite sure about UPS moving to DSA. It was never a serious discussion so was never a viable option.
At the time I do not believe the level of traffic FedEx would have generated was enough to justify building the facilities necessary to handle it. Also, FedEx were running everything through Stoke on Trent which is closer to EMA/MAN. Never heard the UPS rumour, EMA have built a huge facility to handle them and the other parcel freight that is not DHL, which of course has its own integrator facility on site at EMA. Least that’s my understanding last time I was airside at EMA (when they were completing the facility) but perhaps you could correct me on that EMACargo. Under public ownership, there may be scope to speculatively build facilities that wouldn’t get passed by the board of a private sector owner like Peel. |
Originally Posted by SWBKCB
(Post 11640740)
If there was good money to be made, Wizz would have found away. The speed with which they dropped DSA suggests forward booking where marginal.
If Peel have put money into the airport over all these years just to get hold of the land, that seems a rather optimistic interpretation of the value of brown field sites in South Yorkshire. I've heard of playing a long game, but blimey... |
For the record, the Wizz Air Airbus A330 Freighter, HA-LHU, operated through Heathrow during Covid.
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Originally Posted by VLCfkight
(Post 11640660)
WIZZ's Heathrow base? Cannot recall ever seeing a WIZZ aircraft at LHR, yet alone them having a base there.
Originally Posted by AP1995
(Post 11640697)
Ahh the lets blame Peel brigade.. The DSA closure was announced on the back of Wizz pulling the base. Wizz didn't try to come back. There was a contract in place to up the base to x3 AC. clearly not the fees that pushed them out. They launched the base at the wrong time, getting bums on seats was a huge issue. all you had to do was look for the dirt cheap fares they were offering. Flybe base, Peel massively incentivised them to DSA. they was actually supposed to launch LBA. Peel did try. The new operator will not get anyone or anything different. the airport is a failure, the catchment area isn't there. Wizz didn't withdraw for LHR.. never has been a Wizz plane there..
Originally Posted by EMACargo
(Post 11640755)
not quite sure about UPS moving to DSA. It was never a serious discussion so was never a viable option.
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"If Peel have put money into the airport over all these years just to get hold of the land, that seems a rather optimistic interpretation of the value of brown field sites in South Yorkshire. I've heard of playing a long game, but blimey.."
If they can build 100 houses that will clear £ 1mm - if they build 5000 ............................... |
Originally Posted by Asturias56
(Post 11641102)
If they can build 100 houses that will clear £ 1mm - if they build 5000 ...............................
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Originally Posted by pug
(Post 11640786)
Under public ownership, there may be scope to speculatively build facilities that wouldn’t get passed by the board of a private sector owner like Peel. |
Originally Posted by SWBKCB
(Post 11641123)
Isn't it great that the taxpayers have a bigger appetite for risk than private investors? :rolleyes:
No private company is going to look at wider contribution to the regions economy. Local government might, Whether the assessments make sense is a different question. |
Never good or just facts?
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Peel are like a sponge for other people money.
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Originally Posted by AP1995
(Post 11640697)
Flybe base, Peel massively incentivised them to DSA. they was actually supposed to launch LBA. Peel did try.
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