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-   -   Ryanair-11 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/637193-ryanair-11-a.html)

Link Kilo 2nd Dec 2020 15:26

"Ryanair is close to placing an order for dozens of additional Boeing 737 MAX jets in a commercial boost to the U.S. planemaker after regulators lifted a 20-month safety grounding, industry sources said."


racedo 2nd Dec 2020 20:38

Good spot.

Ultimately the key point is "as part of a compensation deal for delays caused by the grounding.". This is pretty much in line with what I suggested when rumours first broke of a potential deal.

Financed by EXIM so assumming Ryanair pay $40 M each, sales and lease back deal @ low rates for $80 M each and you have just generated a huge pot of cash.

davidjohnson6 2nd Dec 2020 21:30

In December 2020 and also early January 2021, Ryanair are flying between Stansted and Edinburgh. During Dec 2020, it's a FR flight code and operated by Ryanair Ireland - i.e. default setup for Ryanair. From 01-Jan-2021, there's an RK flight code (i.e. Ryanair UK) but the Ryanair website lists the flight as being *operated by Ryanair* - i.e. Ryanair Ireland doing the flying rather than Ryanair UK
For clarity, I'll refer to the Irish airline within the Ryanair group of companies as Ryanair Ireland
I get that Brexit means things change - and I really don't want a whole Brexit/EU argument going on here, but how can you have a UK-registered airline flight code, operated by an EU-registered airline on a domestic flight within the UK ? Yes, I know Ryanair UK is probably 100% owned by Ryanair Ireland so it's a paperwork/legalities exercise rather than any money being involved
Wizzair Hungary (W6) have set up a UK airline called Wizz UK with a separate code (W9) with G- aircraft that are registered to Wizz UK. Wizz don't fly UK domestic so have fewer constraints in their overall operation

Surely one would expect flights between Edinburgh and Stansted after 01-Jan-2021 to not only have an RK flight code but also be *operated by Ryanair UK* instead of Ryanair Ireland ?

FRatSTN 2nd Dec 2020 22:00

Ryanair UK only has one aircraft, G-RUKA.

Those flights with the RK code are indeed Ryanair UK flights (as needed to continue after 1st Jan), but 'operated by Ryanair' (ie the aircraft is leased in from Ryanair DAC/Ireland).

Whether the Ryanair UK fleet will grow in time I'm not sure, but so long as they're a UK carrier (based in STN) with it's own AOC, there's no reason to my knowledge why it couldn't operate using any aircraft leased in from any one of the other Ryanair subsidiaries.

Skipness One Foxtrot 2nd Dec 2020 23:14


Aer Lingus' BHD-UK operation is not going over to a British AOC so far as I know. I believe an exemption has been granted.

SWBKCB 3rd Dec 2020 06:29

Whether the Ryanair UK fleet will grow in time I'm not sure, but so long as they're a UK carrier (based in STN) with it's own AOC, there's no reason to my knowledge why it couldn't operate using any aircraft leased in from any one of the other Ryanair subsidiaries.
With CAA approval, and if the old system still applies would need to take account of any possible objections from other UK airlines.

Bueno Hombre 3rd Dec 2020 08:33

Ryanair never, even when times were good, ever paid any dividend to its share holders so why is the share price rising ? Better times revenues will rightly accrue to the account of Michael, not to dumb shareholders.

southside bobby 3rd Dec 2020 09:50

Not so sure the "never & "ever" are correct however.

cavokblues 3rd Dec 2020 09:59

I've just noticed that whilst the Maltese registered aircraft have the Maltese flag next to the registration and the Polish aircraft the Polish flag, and obviously the Irish aircraft the Irish flag, the one British registered aircraft is missing the Union Flag. Just an oversight or intentional?

(Not wanting to start any political arguments but just an observation which I found amusing!)

EI-EIDW 3rd Dec 2020 10:17

Guess but its not mandatory in UK and might be elsewhere?

Jet 2, BA etc dont carry the flag so not an intentional omission from FR.

Angry Rebel 3rd Dec 2020 10:45

Originally Posted by Bueno Hombre (Post 10939407)
Ryanair never, even when times were good, ever paid any dividend to its share holders so why is the share price rising ? Better times revenues will rightly accrue to the account of Michael, not to dumb shareholders.

The first part is wrong and the second part makes no sense.

Alsacienne 3rd Dec 2020 10:51

Well being Ryanair, I doubt they'd spend money 'decorating' an aircraft frame if they didn't actually need to or have a marketing plan in mind!

Jonnyknoxville 3rd Dec 2020 12:13

Ryanair have paid billions in dividends over the last 7 or 8 years

TOM100 3rd Dec 2020 12:47

and lots of share buybacks I believe....

Link Kilo 3rd Dec 2020 14:16

"WASHINGTON, Dec. 3, 2020 /PRNewswire/ -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] and Ryanair announced today that Europe's largest airline is placing a firm order for 75 additional 737 MAX airplanes, increasing its order book to 210 jets. Ryanair again selected the 737 8-200, a higher-capacity version of the 737-8, citing the airplane's additional seats and improved fuel efficiency and environmental performance."


southside bobby 3rd Dec 2020 15:27

Timeline for delivery of "the gamechanger" also condensed with all a/c to be delivered by 2024.

inOban 3rd Dec 2020 20:36

I notice that both the EZY and FR flights from EDI to STN leave at the same time. I wonder what the load factors will be.

racedo 3rd Dec 2020 21:16

Michael O'Leary is not Ryanair nor has he ever claimed to be. True he has a generous incentive scheme allied to performance but bearing in mind he is already very wealthy and is quite happy to pay millions in tax in that Tax Haven (Not) Ireland then I see not what the reason is. Bearing in mind he bet the farm in 2001 when all were laughing at a stupid decision I guess the laughter is not there now.

For reference Ryanair has spent just under €7 billion in special dividends and buy backs since 2008 but hey begrudgery works if you want it to.

As for the dumb shareholders they could have put money in safe banks.....oh wait.

CCFAIRPORT 4th Dec 2020 13:19

Ryanair is launching a new base at Venice-Treviso Airport ! Opening 30 March 2021 with 2 based aircraft and 45 routes

New routes :

Tel Aviv

Some routes were already in the previous network they just come back

Seljuk22 5th Dec 2020 09:28

Ryanair's VIE base (currently 3 based a/c) will be closed eff. January. Lauda Europe and Buzz will take over.

Beauvais base was opened on 3rd December.

inOban 5th Dec 2020 10:16

excuse my ignorance but I thought that the current base at Marco Polo was a temporary one while Treviso was being resurfaced. ie they are reopening it, not a new base.

southside bobby 5th Dec 2020 10:32

Up to 18 Lauda Europe 9H- A320`s at STN in temporary store.

Noxegon 5th Dec 2020 12:46


Ryanair always uses the words "new route" and "new base" regardless as to whether they've previously operated something.

EZYPZY 5th Dec 2020 13:02


FR have had a large presence at Treviso (VCE temporarily while runway works are carried out) for years but despite this it was never a ‘base’ for them. This announcement will see aircraft and crew permanently based there, rather than flying in from other bases around the network.

MANFAN 15th Dec 2020 11:27

Spanish authorities announced on 10th December that the LAMP COVID-19 test is now being accepted for entry into mainland Spain. This is a rapid test where results are given within 90mins and is already offered by Collinson who are providing tests at various UK airports.
Ryanair's travel area on their website only states PCR or TMA tests. As usual., trying to speak with someone at Ryanair is proving difficult, disconnection on the phone due to the lines being too busy and no response from Twitter messages.

I have booked a PCR test a few weeks ago for my flight with them to Malaga on 21st December. Now I have also pre-booked a LAMP test at MAN airport on the day of travel, but my concern would now be because their website is not up-to-date, would boarding be denied even though this type of test (LAMP) has official been announced as acceptable by the Spanish authorities?

Mr A Tis 21st Dec 2020 22:25

CAA response to Ryanair statement ( Re Ryanair UK)
  • 21 December, 2020
Commenting on Ryanair's recent press release, Paul Smith at the UK Civil Aviation Authority, said: “It is incorrect for the airline to state that the UK Civil Aviation Authority has changed its wet-leasing policy at short notice. It has been our long-standing position that a UK airline with a significant presence in the UK, such as Ryanair UK does, should not rely heavily on using wet-leased, foreign-registered aircraft to undertake their operations. Doing so undermines the competitiveness of the UK aviation industry and the effectiveness of the regulatory regime. This is a view shared by regulators around the world and has nothing to do with our preparations for the end of the transition period, which we have planned for extensively.

"The decision to cancel these flights was taken by Ryanair alone. We will continue to engage with the airline on these matter as we seek to act in the best interest of consumers.”

Notes to editors:
  • Ryanair has chosen to create a UK subsidiary to benefit from UK air traffic rights, including flying between domestic destinations in the UK.
  • Ryanair UK currently has only one aircraft listed on the UK's register. Ryanair has a fleet of over 470 aircraft.

Dannyboy39 22nd Dec 2020 05:40

This isnít adding up for me, although they havenít said what the rule changes are. I presume RYR U.K. plan to wet lease several EI-reg RYR DAC aircraft (or from other airlines in the group) to the U.K. subsidiary to get around the break from EASA protocols in 10 days time.

Whilst itís true that no U.K. airline wet leases a substantial portion of their aircraft from a third party, what is the difference between having say 2 aircraft v 20 aircraft? Each are being managed and maintained by the same regulations. Even the CAA say itís all about competitiveness rather than safety or regulations.

It is one of my big bug bears in aviation - that the rules totally change on the same aircraft as soon as the letters at the back end change.

LTNman 22nd Dec 2020 06:31

Ryanair’s UK arm had agreed to Brexit contingency arrangements with the CAA two years ago so they can’t claim they didn’t know there could be issues if they didn’t comply in the spirit of those arrangements when they only have one aircraft registered in the U.K.

biddedout 22nd Dec 2020 07:12

Yes, it is about the spirit of the arrangements. It has been clear that post end of transition, in order to operate under any Air Service Agreements entered into by the UK, an airline will to have a UK entity and has to have a UK AOC. To obtain a UK AOC, the aircraft has to be on the UK register. Although there has been much confusion over Brexity arrangements generally, the CAA has been consulting with airlines and it has been clear for a while that the UK - EU Air Service agreement would probably only cover third and fourth freedoms. This would mean Ryanair would need a UK business (which it has with one aircraft on the G reg). Other airlines have worked this out so no doubt Ryanair are just playing and generally stirring for time whilst there isn't much flying going on. It has been obvious all along that wet leasing in and just continuing as before wasn't part of the CAA's plan as this would just be taking the p*** of the point of having a regulator.

Dannyboy39 22nd Dec 2020 08:26

Originally Posted by biddedout (Post 10952348)
Yes, it is about the spirit of the arrangements.

So not set in legislation then?

tictack67 22nd Dec 2020 08:48

How is the Stobbart EI from BHD to GB affected? They use EI reg aircraft

SWBKCB 22nd Dec 2020 08:59

Looking to set up Stobart UK

D9009 22nd Dec 2020 09:28


but surely the CAA have also had plenty of time to release this news item

Albert Hall 22nd Dec 2020 09:40

CAA rules have long prescribed that the number of wet-leased aircraft in an AOC holder's fleet cannot exceed 50% of your core aircraft fleet. If you have one aircraft on the UK register and try to secure permission to wet-lease 15 others - even on a part-time basis - then you can expect to fall foul of this provision, which has been in place for longer than I can remember with the objective of making sure that UK AOCs cannot effectively become flags of convenience. I would be very surprised if the CAA had not outlined that to Ryanair. Unlike Wizz (for example) which has a meaningful and growing number of G- aircraft on its UK AOC, Ryanair look to have gained the approvals and promptly done very little with them.

LTNman 22nd Dec 2020 09:43

Wizz U.K. had no problems understanding CAA requirements but Ryanair like to sail near the wind. Now they have been caught out but they claim it is all the fault of the CAA, which has made a robust response.

biddedout 22nd Dec 2020 09:51

AH - Exactly!
It may not be in law yet but from 01 Jan there will either be no agreement (nothing flies) an agreement or an emergency temporary agreement. The CAA make it clear in their podcasts (and no doubt in conversations with airlines) that the Air Service Agreement between the UK and EU will only be third and fourth freedoms ("97%Written up, just awaiting political sign off"). Airlines wishing to operate under this agreement will need to have a UK AOC. I am not a Brexit fan but this is the point of taking back control, leaving EASA and bolstering our own regulator. It needs something to regulate and the rest of the UK airlines would not be happy if there wasn't a level playing field. Apart form the cost, Ryanair are probably just miffed because they will no longer be able to pool their airframes across Europe / UK. The UK airframes on the G-Reg will have to be ring fenced for UK based ops only. They set up Ryanair UK so they must have been aware of what was coming and would have had a lot of conversations with the CAA as they did this.

LTNman 22nd Dec 2020 10:01

Worth reading this from 2016 when they threatened to cut investment in the U.K in retaliation for the U.K voting to leave the EU. Well that never happened did it.


DomyDom 22nd Dec 2020 13:29

Perhaps they didn't expect that the UK would still be following all EU rules, regulations and still be paying into it's budget by the end of 2020. The only difference now being that the UK has no vote or veto over those EU rules or regs.

SWBKCB 22nd Dec 2020 13:33

This list always includes paying into the budget and always forgets the receiving payments bit. Funny that. Anyway, back on topic.

True Blue 22nd Dec 2020 13:42

If the establishment hadn't set about converting a very good commercial/business arrangement into a political project, we wouldn't be where we are now I believe. The difficulty now being experience shows how much of our authority had been signed away, mostly without our knowledge or agreement. Did nobody at the stop ever stop to ask this question "what happens if a population changes its mind?" as they signed agreement after agreement.

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