Yet another good news story that the usual individuals are desperately trying to turn into a negative. We would all love to know why you pea brained arm chair experts think the Government, who are probably quite busy at the moment, would spend time on freeports if they achieved no results. Last time I checked Singapore, which is smaller than Hampshire, is doing alright. Of course as has long been demonstrated on this thread there is no reasoned debate to be had with people who are just spreading hate as a result of their own deficiencies. The fact that you are belittling the prospect of thousands of jobs creating opportunities for families who are suffering in these awful times must mean that you are truly hateful to the core. I suggest all of you go away any seek help. Mods please take note, there are some frequent offenders here.

On a positive, lets hope this opens up better opportunities for the land on the north east side. Surely land with runway access that benefits from this new status would be wasted on more storage sheds for road hauliers. The new status will also presumably make the Council more confident that investing in the new link road will be money well spent. Meanwhile turning to the cruise industry, which i'm sure the arm chair experts would tell us is even more doomed than aviation, I note that the construction of a fifth cruise terminal is well underway and looks like no expense spared as well. Amazing what you can do with a bit of optimism.

River joint,your comments are offensive and show just how extreme you are!! "Of course as has long been demonstrated on this thread there is no reasoned debate to be had with people who are just spreading hate as a result of their own deficiencies. The fact that you are belittling the prospect of thousands of jobs creating opportunities for families who are suffering in these awful times must mean that you are truly hateful to the core. I suggest all of you go away any seek help. Mods please take note, there are some frequent offenders here. course as has long been demonstrated on this thread there is no reasoned debate to be had with people who are just spreading hate as a result of their own deficiencies. The fact that you are belittling the prospect of thousands of jobs "
Mods take note of this offensive contributor.
The runway extension will go to the wire,but does the airport need it know with the radical changes brought on be covid?​​

Maybe because they are a subject the Chancellor has been promoting for a while - see his paper from 2016, then some of the counter arguements from the FT

https://www.cps.org.uk/research/the-...s-opportunity/

https://www.ft.com/content/7ee9e853-...9-f7e20cdae3c0

Freeport status is a game changer for the airport, watch this space!

Genuine question for the Freeport supporters. Why were the last lot scrapped in 2012?

The legislation was time limited and wasn't renewed.

EU membership restrictions meant the Freeport status had marginal benefits. Free from the shackles of Brussels, there are massive investment opportunities. For our ports and airports.

What are the differences?

EU membership restrictions? You mean the freedom of trade we had as members?

yeah we need Free Trade Port because we've just left one of the worlds biggest free trade organisations.............. and that applied across the whole country

Asturias makes a valid point......I would add that Free Trade Ports when set up could well disadvangage other non FTP's in England which formerly enjoyed free single market access, now a thing of the past. Nevertheless, good luck to Southamptons port and airport with their new status.

Looking at other airports in the UK right now it becomes really clear that SOU has one of the most significant recoveries of any airport with a whole range of new routes and airlines coming on stream - just look at the wikipedia pages of each to get a feel for it. Pretty striking and I for one can't wait to use the BA Cityflyer services!! How the airport is not viable with all of this beggars belief.

Agree to some extent and believe the airport has done a great job in recovering certain routes and airlines, however when you strip out that BA are only flying summer weekends and all UK regional services are going to be operating significantly reduced frequencies for some time, it then starts to look less substantial. There is no doubt the upcoming runway decision will have a huge impact on the airports future and the recent Freeport decision will create big opportunities!

BACF have added a weekly service to Alicante from 26th June to 30th October.

BA2905 SOU 07:30 ALC 11:00 6
BA2906 ALC 11:50 SOU 13:15 6

SOU-ALC
 

Just booked 😂

Hope local people will support these new routes by BA Cityflyer - this is the right airline for SOU!

Good luck for the future

Hello Boris Johnson! Had no idea you frequented these forums...

There's a simple answer to that; they didn't (and don't) work. They are a gimmick that government used after a previous recession. Why don't they work? To understand that you have to understand what the purposes of a "freeport" actually are.

Import and storage of goods free of liability for customs duties and VAT

Really does what it says on the tin. Importers can bring goods into the UK and hold them without paying import duties and VAT until they are sold in the UK, and at that stage the duties and taxes are accounted for. Those same goods can also be re-exported perhaps to the EU, and in that scenario when the shipments is released from the freeport it is shipped directly to the destination country without paying UK customs duties and AVT, so import duty is only applicable in the country of final destination. This could prove advantageous for businesses that were set up in the UK as distribution centres for the EU, when the UK was a member, and certainly there is the potential for some benefit to be derived by business in the Brexit era, as if they continued to act as a DC serving EU countries without going down this route (of storing imported goods without payment of UK duties and taxes) the good arriving, say, from China would be subject to UK duties on arrival here, and then, because the UK / EU (not) free trade agreement requires goods to have originated in UK they would be subject all over again for customs duties on import to the destination country - double customs duty, and totally uncompetitive. All that said there are alternatives where companies can take any secure warehouse and apply for it to be bonded, say, a distributor could take their current warehouse, outside of any freeport facility, and bond all or part of it and achieve pretty much the same as they could in the freeport. Many of the remaining larger distributors may go down such a route, time alone will tell.

Importing goods and further processing them before delivering them on.

In this scenario part completed products could be brought into the freeport warehouse, and further engineered (processed) to make completed, or new products then be delivered either domestically or internationally, exactly as with the distribution model, with no UK duties and taxes payable until the products leave the freeport area. If they are exported then no duties and taxes are paid in UK.

For the new freeports so much is going to depend on the size of the freeports, be they in Southampton or East Midlands Airport. If as they were in the 1970s / 1980s, hey are on too small a scale, while they may benefit a few smaller businesses they will be irrelevant to large traders, and as it is many of the large European distribution businesses have moved their facilities on to the European mainland before Brexit finally happened.

It is very difficult to see how SOU will benefit in any way shape or form from a freeport in Southampton; the container port may well gain some benefit, however chances are bureaucracy and red tape will make freeports too much hassle to operate from. I remember trying to get in and out of the pathetic excuse for a freeport at BHX back in the day, the security was ridiculous. The real issue for freeports is that almost everything you can do in a freeport you can arrange outside one, rendering them largely superfluous, as I mentioned at the top, a political gimmick.

Question - IF the BACF summer schedule is a success, do we think they would consider a year round base from SOU (inc week days) what with LCY probably behind with capacity for some time to come?

ATNotts wrote:
But, for some strange reason 53 countries operate some 250 Free Zones worldwide. But they don't work, so all 53 countries are wasting their time...

SKOJB

I would say it is incredibly unlikely. I think Southampton will prove to be successful for them and a nice little niche market but I'm not sure it will be persuade them into going full time. I'm not sure LCY is behind with capacity, quite the opposite in fact at the moment?

BACF are, ultimately, only there because of the weekday restrictions at City and the the crewing nightmares they had with the Bristol and Birmingham and Manchester operations. Being stuck in a taxi from Bristol back to LCY airport after a busy weekend flying is not the best way to achieve a harmonious crew! :) If City ever goes 7 days a week I'm sure they will probably focus their entire operation from there and stop with the weekend ops from other airports.

What’s the journey length from SOU to LCY by taxi versus BRS?

There is no competition at SOU, so they’ll definitely do a lot better on the revenue front, bur surely the crew complexity will be similar to the other issues they had in the U.K. Regions.

Cavokblues - what I meant by behind with capacity was can you see an immediate return to business travel volumes at LCY, reduced demand post Covid is surely a given and fleet utilisation will still be key?

BAladdy

Fills the gap nicely for the aircraft inbound from Berlin on a Friday night, that doesn't depart to Faro until 14:50.

LGS6753

They were a complete failure last time around, what make you believe anything has changed, given that with a bit of imagination anything that can be done in a freeport can be achieved in a bonded warehouse?

Question on performance from SOU's longer runway
 

I'm sure I have asked this before but I can't find the exact post or reference but can anyone help clarify whether, with the new extension, SOU's runway would allow unlimited payloads on A320/737 type aircraft to the Canary Islands/Turkey/Cyprus?

Not sure with a 738 but A320 took a 10/15 seat hit from SEN when operating to TFS (SEN runway being comparable with SOU extended)

Even pre runway starter strip days, the B737-300/400 and 700 had little problems going in or out of SOU to Spain and the Canaries.
Not so the slippery fish of the 737-800NG at SOU which does not operate from SOU.
Have to say that Jersey has seen both the 738NG and the new MAX-8 of Smartwings fly from their 5700' runway to Malaga & Tenerife.
I do not think JER has any clearway issues like SOU?

As mentioned above, EasyJet and also Air Malta had a payload restriction out of SEN (TORA 6000') on their A320's to MLA, CFU and The Canaries, of losing between 10-20 seats.
Air Malta did route some A320 flights via Sardinia and Sicily IIRC to off set this, but sales were poor.
EasyJet Airbus A321NEO had flights from London Southend Airport until they stopped all Ops there. Not sure of the destinations flown but I saw the performance of one there last year and it was rather impressive to say the least. EZY were tending to base more Neo a/c at SEN.

SOU's OLS/OBSTACLE LIMITATION REQUIREMENTS with current issues are TODA = Takeoff Distance Available = The TORA Takeoff Run available, plus the length of any remaining clearway beyond the end of the TORA.
Marhill Copse is located immediately south of Southampton Airport’s runway in a critical location with regards to Approach and Take-off/climb.

All in SOU's to-do-list in their Master Plan.

The 737-400 didn't work on SOU runway at all. I seem to remember that Air Europa used to end up tech-stopping Nantes in the couple of years they did a SOU-TFS charter.

I'd doubt the -300 can do it but a -700 with the right engines could almost certainly do it.

SKOJB

738 SFP manages CFU with no issues from SEN, A320 had small payload issue to TFS of 10 seats, but no issue on NEO

Intrigued as to why nobody has taken up CDG yet, any answers?

Awaiting the end (hopefully) of a worldwide pandemic. Air France/KLM are effectively broke and surviving via the taxpayer.

Planning
 

Planning decision, Eastleigh Borough Council will decide on the runway extension plans on 25th March

Why we need the runway extension -
So, if you support the airport, please consider emailing the following members of Eastleigh Borough Council before 25th March, to explain why you back the runway plans. You can find their contact details below:
support or object here -
https://www.southamptonairport.com/r...Iho4Us4E#21732

Albert Hall

I believe that this was a first generation B737-800 way before the SFP option was available. A tech stop in northern Spain was always necessary with the ability to route TFS-SOU direct on the northbound leg.

The problem was the weight penalty incurred by reporting of a wet runway which on at least two occasions resulted in the northbound flights diverting due to the landing weight being too great for the available LDA with a wet runway. While this is still the case there may be light on the horizon.

As of 4 November this year the new ICAO Global Reporting Format (GRF) comes in to operation for reporting of "contaminated" runways. Whereas there currently is an automatic weight penalty incurred when a wet runway is reported, when GRF comes in it appears that reporting of a wet runway will not incur a penalty unless braking coefficient measurements indicate that the runway is "slippery wet". Maybe there is a performance expert out there who can con confirm this?

Aurigny W21/S22
 

Aurigny have put GCI-SOU on sale for W21 and S22. Early days but frequency is 19 weekly for both seasons (3x Mon-Fri, 2x Sat/Sun).

Will be interesting to see what happens on the Guernsey route, only had a quick look but it looks like Blue Islands will be offering up to 29 return flights per week (4x daily apart from Friday when there will be 5 daily) this summer between Guernsey and Southampton and 20 per week during the winter (3 daily, apart from 2 on Saturdays) so looks like we'll end up with overcapacity on the route and more seats than what will be available between Guernsey and Gatwick.

Jersey - Southampton however will have less than half that capacity - 22 per week during the summer (x3 daily except x4 on Fridays) and 21 per week during the winter - (3 daily)

Runway extension recommended for approval next week by council planning officers, sounds positive!

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/191...-set-approval/

Celebration time :ok:

well it means if the Councillors reject it there are good grounds for an appeal - which will take another 12 months.

I get that longer runway allows greater flexibility of aircraft use, and that pilots see this as job security. I'm not looking for "you are anti-aviation and should be banned from this website" comments.

However, I'm struggling to pick out many airlines, given their current and planned fleet, where this extension is really going to add this flexibility or allow new routes to be opened

Can someone nominate some credible specific airline-aircraft-route triple combinations that would become enabled by this runway extension ?

Yes, that includes factoring in that a 1h flight needs less fuel, so less runway is required to depart, compared to a 4h flight. A 777 from SOU to NYC off no more than 1900m is for dreamers and not commercially credible

There will be a battle with the environmental crowd - clear, strong and specific arguments will be needed for a longer runway. Details of those new potential routes are a good way of convincing minds; shouting at people that they are stupid won't win the argument