I take it you have a source for number 3?

I was under the impression that most of deaths were caused by a cytokines storm, which is why it targeted the young.

Wikipedia, where else! The entry suggests there's a debate on the matter although recent analysis suggests that superinfection was the major killer. A cytokine storm is of course the cause of serious illness with Covid19.

German Passenger Traffic -91.4% in the week ending 22 November. 340k travelling vs 4m+ same week last year.

Scenario expectation that H1 2021 (Jan - Jun) will be -75% of 2019, with -90% between year end and Easter.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....c99d157fc0.png

No vaccine jab no pub visit!

So in the meantime we should all do our best to reduce the virus infection, maybe like what they do in Germany, wear a face covering on leaving their home. Every little helps and maybe we might be able to have a holiday by air next year, if we still have to have the face covering, so be it.

From the BBC
Hope for the future and maybe a quicker recovery in the west than predicted?

And all without a vaccine

China and the UK (and elsewhere in the West) aren’t comparable, for better or worse. Over there you have absolute compliance with rules and restrictions and brutal (literally?) enforcement with effective tracing. Here you have half-hearted, reluctant or no compliance and a sizeable market in conspiracists. Here we have near zero enforcement unless you are really taking the pee - go out anywhere and you’ll see rule-breakers all over the place but police are nowhere to be seen. Here as is well documented we have ineffective track and trace.

Without a vaccine we are not going to have China’s level of ‘success’ anytime soon. And this is where the case of the Lawrence Fox’s of the country and the anti-vaxxers falls. They want the freedoms but oppose to the very measures necessary to give those freedoms because they are freedom-limiting. Neither by and large do they want or trust a vaccine, which would give them the freedom they want without the restrictions they detest.

Exactly, locked down early and shut borders as well. The sky appears not to have fallen in.

AirportPlanner1 sums up the situation beautifully and is spot on with his comments.

Only because you have a similar view point, others do not. Airportplanner is suggesting that there are only 2 solutions, either accept draconian rule of law and limited freedoms or accept the vaccine. I would argue that the likes of Lawrence Fox amongst others are not suggesting one or the other, more neither are deemed mandatory or warranted.

AirportPlanner1

Other posters may not like it but I also think you are spot on with your assessment.

All it will take is the confidence that the most vulnerable and health services are well on the way to being protected and the end of the nightmare is in sight then aviation will be screaming loud to end all restrictions - not looking for new ones to be imposed.

NHS will suck up close to £175 billion of Govt money this year or £3 and a bit billion per week. Will this drive efficiencies and a world class health service ? This is V a budgeted spend of £139 billion

I think everybody knows the answer to the question regarding will it be massively better able to look after people or will people just want the Govt tp spend £175 billion every year.

AirportPlanner1

+1 from me.

I agree, there is a core on here who demand everybody line up for their mandatory vaccine and anybody who doesn't comply becomes effectively a non citizen with zero right but then at the same time proclaiming how great freedoms are in the UK. Amazing how easy it is for people to be taken in.

Seems as though TUI don't know how to look look after their own staff these days.

Almost 600 Permanent Cabin Staff, refused Furlough when the other 1000s are getting it without issue!

Link to the Change.org petition: change.org/p/uk-treasury-furlough-eligible-tui-employees-443f81ff-92de-4b7b-a6af-ab7c3ef445e3?redirect=false
Link to the Financial Times New article: ft.com/content/e48da86b-d3cc-4601-8f6c-ddf519758c1b

They've even got MPs fighting for them: twitter.com/Jamie4North/status/1333848685130756097


I've signed the petition! everyone is hitting desperate times, why shouldn't these people get help they deserve and are entitled to? I encourage everyone to sign and share

Not sure what category you fall into but the report states you need sympathy for your views. Maybe your views are actually acting against the national interest and you are attempting to undermine the way out of this mess? https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...9-anti-vaxxers

Ah, it is good to see 77th Brigade is already at work.

Again, a problematic view with contradiction. Demanding rights and freedoms is all well and good, notwithstanding whether exercising those rights and freedoms harms others. People have the right not to be vaccinated. But equally individuals, companies and institutions have the right to turn such people away (eg Qantas) whether mandated through legislation or not.