You and others are perfectly entitled to have questions about the vaccine, but please don't expect that if you decide not to take the vaccine when it is available to you, that you will still be able to carry on doing all the things that others who have accepted it do. That's not a UK issue, it's worldwide, and I'd lay a pound to a penny that many nations, especially in the Far East and Australasia will demand that anyone travelling there has been vaccinated.

So the equation is clear, if you want the freedoms to travel as you might wish; get vaccinated. if you're happy to wait a while before travelling, well that's fine too, it's you're choice.

LTNman isn't a troll, they are just putting forward a perfectly rational position that you simply don't find pallatable.

Yes, the risk to you is small but there is more to being vaccinated than just protecting yourself. If you are vaccinated you greatly reduce the risk that you may catch the virus and pass it on to someone else; maybe someone like me for whom it is a much more dangerous proposition.

Scenario 1: I've been vaccinated with the Oxford vaccine and am 70% protected. I sit next to you on a flight for 4 hours and you have the virus and I happen to be in the 30% for whom the vaccine does not work so I catch the virus from you.

Scenario 2: We've both had the Oxford vaccine injections so the chances of you having the virus is much lower and I'm much less likely to contract it from contact with you.

I would certainly feel happier with Scenario 2. I know it's not proven that you cannot carry the virus after having been vaccinated but that is a different discussion point.

No you are misunderstanding my point. As a reasonably ish balanced human being I'm capable of looking at both sides of the coin. And do so without resorting to name calling. Or labelling the other side.

But one thing that seems to have been missed here is that the vaccines do not stop transmission. Only 1 drug showed signs of reduced transmission and even that wasn't consistent. So why should I pose any heightened risk to others by not being vaccinated? Other than the miniscule risk to myself?

​​​

At least Ryanair is optimistic for next summer. Not so good for those still working at airports as MOL still wants lower airport fees, which means lower wages.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29...r-summer-2021/

It would be more accurate to say that the evidence in either direction is so far inconclusive.

What can we expect from first-generation COVID-19 vaccines?

Don't worry, even I have questions and even the odd doubt or two but none of these questions are going to be answered anytime soon. It will need a leap of faith I guess that many won’t find acceptable. I get that.

Aruba, Bhutan, East Timor, Kiribati, Micronesia, Mongolia, Samoa, Solomon Islands, Tonga and Vanuatu are all put on the Xmas card list
None of them have direct flights to the UK - unless you have a private jet

Denmark is taken out of solitary confinement and goes back to a standard jail cell

Estonia and Latvia go on the naughty list

Call Royal Mail before you go though, last posting day before Christmas was 5th October, can be Postman Pat :E

Some might find this interesting, which is about flying through my local airport during the pandemic and why he would not recommend it.

Normally, vaccines have a 10+ years of testing in order to check all the things people are worried about, such as still being able to infect others, unexpected side effects, conflicts with other medications and how long the protection lasts. But (almost everyone) agrees that the problem is so great that proceeding now is the least worst option.

With some 1.5 million dead already and countless people now with life-long health complications that are not yet understood, people can decide to stay home or get vaccinated.

You make it sound like you only have 2 choices. Most of us will not stay home and most will likely never have/need the vaccine.

Paxboy sums it up nicely. Today I have just had my 5th holiday or mini break cancelled so no holiday for Christmas this year. For many people that would be the least of their problems. I would love to see an alternative to a vaccine for a return to a normal life but the brutal truth is that there isn’t one.

As for not staying at home, any suggestions what I can do next weekend, as all my normal haunts are remaining closed, which is a real bummer.

So lets force inject everybody with a vaccine that has clearly not been tested properly, forgot about any side effects and assume the people who will make millions out of these are being wholly truthful. Let's overlook the fact that vaccine efficiency at half dose as 50% more effective (as claimed by company) that a full dose where company doesn't know why.

But have confidence because we tell you so.

Strange that the same criteria and questioning is not being applied to the Russian vaccine where automatically western media claiming data is false.

I hear what you are saying racedo but you never tell us your solution for the coming years. Do you think it will just die out next year without a vaccine or do we just go back to a normal life now with all the consequences or is the virus fake?

Good for you 96er all are mightily impressed...sounds obviously you have no social contract within your own bubble of unawareness.

Hardly a child of the fifties/sixties you sound a child of the eighties which descriptively I may add has nothing to do with your age.

The first statement is really just follows your usual derogatory dispersions, so I won’t bother.

The second statement is a correct assumption, I am a child of the 80’s, however, I’ll be lucky to have a job in the next few months as a direct consequence of this, so I’d say it has everything to do with my age group and every other age group who’s financially effected. Suppose I could just get another job eh !

If you have it, you will likely never know whether or not you would have needed it. Like any of your other vaccinations, in fact.

Every age group is financially affected or will be of course as is every member of society in other v important ways too which was more of my point.

The only way out of this complete miasma is for all regardless of status to work together in & for society for all to achieve ultimately better outcomes for their lives & families lives.

A sick society works badly for virtually all...a healthy society is a successful society after all.

Whilst expressing regret concerning your own predicament if it is within obviously the industry there will be no one here who has not experienced job loss within it I venture...albeit at far greater scale with this particular shock of course.

Pandemic will burn itself outself.

How do I know this ? Well, history is the judge of this where pandemic eventually have nobody else to infect so it happens naturally. Mother Nature is the world's greatest killer and always will be.

Greater pandemics of before burnt themselves out BUT there was a longer gestation period as travel was slow. Black Death took 5-10 years to get to Europe across the Steppes and the initial virus mutated many many times to survive. The difference now is virus can be around the world in 80 hours so it mutates a lot more which is its weakness..

Covid-19 was definitely in Italy last year as analysis of samples have shown, likely in India as well and probably a few more places. Possibly it was part of 2018-19 flu season but unless people go back and test samples people will not know.

It is likely the next potential pandemics infection is already out there, it may die before it gets a chance to find a vulnerable host to carry it elsewhere or may just die out.

Spanish Influenza was worse in terms of deaths and people numbers, people survived that. Today for me is 102 anniversary of Great Grandfather dying due to this but it didn't stop my Great Grand mother living for another 30 plus years.

It is up to individuals to decide if they wish to live a life or to live in fear. Clearly some are clinging desperately for a panacea of a vaccine like an alcoholic hoping that the next drink will cure him.

1. The Black Death was a bacterium, not a virus.
2. A virus related to Covid19 may have been around last year. The spread pattern round the world clearly shows that the pandemic strain arose in China
3 The vast majority of deaths associated with Spanish flu were from secondary infections by the sort of bacteria that would now be controlled by antibiotics. So the death rate can't be compared with that of Covid19.