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Originally Posted by Matt995
(Post 10634541)
No I haven't included the Norwegian aircraft at Gatwick, guessing its 2 B738s operating for TUI under Norwegian flight numbers?
I beleive we might see 7 Sunwing B738s this summer at Aberdeen, Norwich, Dublin, Belfast and Cardiff, whch means 20 Max's still required, dependant on how many B757s are kept, and if they lease in aircraft from other airlines? Still a big gamble that the Max's will be flying from May 2020? Yes there may be some ACMI leasing again like this summer. ASL were used all summer at CWL as well as Titan at STN and LGW, amongst many others at LGW/MAN/BHX. |
B757’s
Prior to the Thomas Cook collapse TUI were down to 4 757’s for summer 2020, they are supposedly keeping the current 9 now. My guess is another couple at MAN and BHX? Additionally thought BRS was going to be a 737 only base as of this winter. Anyone shed any light? Much appreciated. Tom |
NCL is 2x 788 / 4x 788 alternate each week. Summer 2021 NCL requires a 787 4 days every week.
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I think there has to be leasing in. No way there will be 20 Max next summer. Can’t see the MAX flying until st least April next year and then it will take an age to get them all in service.... |
Originally Posted by thom1983tc
(Post 10634789)
Prior to the Thomas Cook collapse TUI were down to 4 757’s for summer 2020, they are supposedly keeping the current 9 now. My guess is another couple at MAN and BHX? Additionally thought BRS was going to be a 737 only base as of this winter. Anyone shed any light? Much appreciated. Tom |
Originally Posted by P330
(Post 10634904)
I think there has to be leasing in. No way there will be 20 Max next summer. Can’t see the MAX flying until st least April next year and then it will take an age to get them all in service.... |
That is the big unknown.
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Originally Posted by pabely
(Post 10634979)
And is joe public going to be happy to find they are booked on a MAX?
The DC-10 was similar, and as we saw, people were 'all over' Concorde when it re-flew. This will be a so non-event for most. |
Originally Posted by CabinCrewe
(Post 10635038)
Most won't care, most won't realise. Its all about their hard end two weeks in Benidorm. The DC-10 was similar, and as we saw, people were 'all over' Concorde when it re-flew. This will be a so non-event for most. It’s a very different world we live in these days I think. Boeing need to get this right. I’m just not sure how they’ll do it. |
I think many may not like the idea of flying on the MAX but most simply will not know/care to check the aircraft type before their flight. Many will only realise once onboard (even if then!), especially on the likes of TUI. That being said, TUI is definitely the most prominent operator of the MAX in the UK and perhaps Europe, well at least until Ryanair start flying theirs.
I am booked on a TUI flight next summer that theoretically should be on a MAX but of course I can't be sure. There is a chance it won't even be back by then and if it is, TUI may not be operating all/any of theirs. |
The trouble is this is very different world. Even a birdstrike or tireburst by a MAX will be in the media to get headlines!
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TUI will probably drop the word MAX by time it enters service like RYR has done. There was talk about them considering it a few weeks back.
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Originally Posted by ROC10
(Post 10635047)
That being said, TUI is definitely the most prominent operator of the MAX in the UK and perhaps Europe, well at least until Ryanair start flying theirs.
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Not that the public will know. But the max will be one of the most tested and scrutinised aircraft in years by the time it returns to service. Probably with a much tighter MEL and more specific procedures to make it a safe prospect. I.e a lot more scrutiny than perhaps even some other new build aircraft. Dont forget the 737 rudder hard-over accidents aswell. Hasn't stopped the billions of passengers since then.
I also doubt that many of TUIs customers will even know it's a Max until they turn up at the gate. And are they going to sacrifice their holiday and walk away at that point? Then again they may not book with tui at all to avoid the max altogether...... |
When the aircraft is allowed to fly paying passengers again no doubt the British press will mention which UK airline flies them so causing pre-booking damage. Removing the word Max from the side of the aircraft like Ryanair intend to do is an acceptance that many passengers would not be happy to fly in one so could be seen as an act of deception.
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I think some of you are vastly underestimating the travelling public re TUI MAX.
Did you read the TUI social media accounts pre the grounding? I suggest you do, so have a look at their Facebook and Twitter back in March, both of which exploded with 1000's of TUI customers who were wanting to cancel and the pressure from them on TUI to do something was immense - The groundings followed within 48 hours when the CAA and EASA decided. Things are different now to the days of the DC-10 etc...(40 years ago) TUI UK Holidays have for many months now wiped clean on their media and online web pages for both Holidays and Flights (and Our Fleet info) any reference to the fact TUI operated the MAX, or in fact that have any at all. (8 UK reg'd a/c grounded in UK and 1 in TFS plus a load more brand new ones parked up at Boeing) Therefore the likelihood of TUI re-branding their aircraft when a RTS is effected is probable. (Ryanair have now used the tag 737-8 200 for their new fleet, having painted out the word MAX on their completed aircraft parked up at Boeing) The MAX tag has tainted the 737, and will never be used on any other new Boeing model aircraft. TUI may quietly just release their 737-8 and 737-10 back online as a 737 when the ban is lifted - dropping any reference to MAX. |
Comparing the height of apparent hysteria and now with, presumably, a safe fix is irrelevant. As I said, very few will change their travel plans as a result at this stage. Otherwise airlines and their far more detailed public research departments would not continue to order and plan to operate, social media or not. |
I agree. I’m not Jo Public, but with a TUI holiday booked on what could be a MAX aircraft, I’m nervous. Logic tells me not to be nervous and logic also tells me I couldn’t be that nervous otherwise I wouldn’t have booked up. BUT, I am. And as a frequent flyer with nearly 700 flights behind me, this is unusual... I hope someone in marketing is working hard on how to bring the planes back with minimum fuss and connection to the past otherwise I think the powers of social media could do TUI some damage. In the meantime, I hope my flight isn’t on a MAX and on my regular bookings with work, I will avoid it unless there is no sensibly priced alternative. |
When it gets airborne again, the Max will be the safest aircraft in the sky...
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Originally Posted by LGS6753
(Post 10635629)
When it gets airborne again, the Max will be the safest aircraft in the sky...
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Originally Posted by LGS6753
(Post 10635629)
When it gets airborne again, the Max will be the safest aircraft in the sky...
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plus of course 98% of passengers wont be able to tell the difference between a -800 and a -8, other than engine size/positioning (which they probably won't identify unless one is parked next to the other) they look the same.
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Originally Posted by clipstone1
(Post 10636187)
plus of course 98% of passengers wont be able to tell the difference between a -800 and a -8, other than engine size/positioning (which they probably won't identify unless one is parked next to the other) they look the same.
Which is no doubt exactly what TUI would like when the 737-8's return to service - They will quietly just merge the 737-800 and the 737-8 as a generic type 737 (same 189 seats and same exit locations) MAX titles will be dropped and as you say they both look the same to most folk. The only ones that are vastly different are the 737 MAX-10 which TUI are expecting to have a large number delivered next year, with similar capacity to the 757, but offers less range, and less range than the 737 MAX-8, and only 200 miles** more than the 737-800. The MAX-10 needs one additional AUX fuel tank to meet this **range but maximum payload will be reduced The -10 can seat up to 230 pax and has 10 exits - with 2 x Type 1 aft of the wing (same as 757) TUI has not yet advised the seating capacity for the -10. TUI were expected to be the launch customer in Europe for the -10 TUI CEO mulls name change https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-a9160916.html |
....and I believe I'm right that the MAX-10 doesn't have MCAS?
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Originally Posted by Wycombe
(Post 10637027)
....and I believe I'm right that the MAX-10 doesn't have MCAS?
edit - I don't think we know. |
''Federal Aviation Administration chief Stephen Dickson said today that the 737 MAX which has been grounded worldwide since March, will not be certified to fly this year, dashing Boeing’s hopes of getting the popular family of planes back in the air in 2019.''
Doubt then we will see entry into TUI service for at least the first half of Summer 2020 if at all.... No doubt TUI are picking up the phone to the ACMI's |
I did hear that the MAX 10 didnt require MCAS as the CoG is further back but that could be hearsay.
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Sorry to post this in here as I know it’s not what it’s for, but I know fr24 is unreliable when it comes to TOM. Does anyone know if by735 from BVC - BHX has taken off and if it’s delayed? The MAN flight due to take off 20 mins after is also not tracking. The BHX website has no info, and the Airportia website has it down as arriving at 22.30, but this changes regularly. im picking someone up so anyone who has any access to non public softwares and could help would be much appreciated. I’ve tried every source I know of to try and track it. |
BY735 Birmingham BHX TUI Airways12/12 14:45 15:25 Departed Late
Source: https://www.airportia.com/cape-verde...rt/departures/ Google flights also concurs. |
Originally Posted by ROC10
(Post 10638238)
BY735 Birmingham BHX TUI Airways12/12 14:45 15:25 Departed Late
Source: https://www.airportia.com/cape-verde...rt/departures/ Google flights also concurs. |
Originally Posted by azz767
(Post 10638243)
it’s now updated as departed at 15.35. I’m assuming it hasn’t actually left yet |
Originally Posted by ROC10
(Post 10638259)
What makes you think it hasn't left yet? Bar FR24 most others seem to suggest it has (including TUI's website). Strangely though, I can't find a website for BVC.
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Originally Posted by ROC10
(Post 10638259)
What makes you think it hasn't left yet? Bar FR24 most others seem to suggest it has (including TUI's website). Strangely though, I can't find a website for BVC.
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FR24 is showing that a STN flight next week will be operated by an A321. Are they possibly going to be using Titan charters from STN again? Wouldn't be too surprising given 9 x 738 have now gone to Sunwing (surely there will be no more). TUI don't have many flights from STN in winter (only 2 per week right now but it does increase going into ski season and perhaps they don't have the equipment to cover this) and with Titan being based there I suppose it makes sense.
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AA in the USA defers any 737 MAX return to service in its schedules until at least mid April, and this is still only an anticipation -
This infers that any UK re-certification would happen after then, as both the CAA and EASA have to approve the type and lift the grounding, plus TUI will have to commence pilot training and make flight training and flight manual revisions. The implications of this IMHO are that this will be too late for TUI to fit their MAX-8 fleet into the Summer 2020 flying program, nor likely take any deliveries of the larger MAX -10 due in 2020. So back to expensive short term ACMI leases and to retain the 9 757's? This is just my Tuppence but I think is a realistic scenario. |
The remaining 9 757s were staying anyway. I'm not sure where the info that they were all going this summer came from. Regardless of the max issue they are still numerous aircraft short for the supposed expansion next summer. I hope they have something up their sleeve or they are going to look very inept.
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The 757's were all supposed to be gone by this winter's end, that was the plan for 757 retirement, but as we know of the 12 (3 have just gone) 9 remain and afaik their disposal has been postponed (indef?)
I don't think TUI have been inept in anyway since March when the MAX was grounded (They had 7 in service that week, with 3 more due, plus loads due for next summer, plus the -10 series too) I think they handled the whole ACMI lease-in for their S2019 program immensely well considering the grounding occurred just weeks before the Summer season, but at a huge cost to them - The forecast was 600m euros. The Sunwing lease arrangement of their fleet returning to Canada for the winter is a historic one as you know (Like AE did the same with Air Florida, and Air2000 with Canada3000) But Sunwing have their own MAX grounded too, so do we assume the same number of 737NG's come back to TUI for Summer 2020? Some that are going back to Canada now have retained G- reg's. As it seems the RTS of the MAX rolls over to at least Q2 2020 TUI can now decide what fleet arrangements are needed to cover the groundings. TUI have announced massive expansions and added destinations (2m more seats) so it needs planes... |
The 757s were never all going this winter. Jethros was incorrect and still is as it says theyve all been extended.
I agree considering the short notice nature of the grounding TUI did very well to cover everything with relatively little fuss. I was making the statement that they are going to look inept should they not have a provider of aircraft or capacity up their sleeve imminently. As time is ticking on. No sign of the max issue being resolved, although just because AA have moved their RTS to April is no indication of anything. The FAA have only said this week that the recert is definitly going to slip into January. It's not as though theres an abundance of used 738s kicking about either, jet2 are hoovering those up. And theres no appetite from Tui to introduce a new type. |
Originally Posted by rog747
(Post 10638899)
The 757's were all supposed to be gone by this winter's end, that was the plan for 757 retirement, but as we know of the 12 (3 have just gone) 9 remain and afaik their disposal has been postponed (indef?)
I don't think TUI have been inept in anyway since March when the MAX was grounded (They had 7 in service that week, with 3 more due, plus loads due for next summer, plus the -10 series too) I think they handled the whole ACMI lease-in for their S2019 program immensely well considering the grounding occurred just weeks before the Summer season, but at a huge cost to them - The forecast was 600m euros. The Sunwing lease arrangement of their fleet returning to Canada for the winter is a historic one as you know (Like AE did the same with Air Florida, and Air2000 with Canada3000) But Sunwing have their own MAX grounded too, so do we assume the same number of 737NG's come back to TUI for Summer 2020? Some that are going back to Canada now have retained G- reg's. As it seems the RTS of the MAX rolls over to at least Q2 2020 TUI can now decide what fleet arrangements are needed to cover the groundings. TUI have announced massive expansions and added destinations (2m more seats) so it needs planes... The 9 aircraft that have gone to Sunwing have not gone “back” to Canada, they are TUI UK aircraft that are going on lease for winter, reducing TUI’s fleet size and probably forcing them to lease in ACMI for STN and possibly other bases. It all seems silly considering they have the planes but they’ve gone to Canada, but I guess these arrangements have been in place for a while, as does the fact that all frames to go over have been younger ones with Sky Interior – most of the older 738s that TUI are stuck with were probably due to be withdrawn like ZE has been. Perhaps as a result TUI will have negotiated a more generous offering from Sunwing next summer with more of theirs coming over. They do also have the MAX but it may return to service in Canada sooner than in the UK. That being said, I think TUI are pretty reluctant to go too far with Sunwing usage as they are generally notorious for huge delays and poor performance which affects TUI’s reputation. The expansion is certainly ambitious and probably would have been a slight challenge even with a reasonable fleet of MAXs, likely having to retain some older aircraft. Without the MAX it looks over-optimistic and they may have to make some serious decisions about cutting some of it back. I’m sure they have plans though. |
ROC10, you are correct in the B757s were never going to all be gone this early, l have said before and l say again they are all not due to leave until the winter/spring 2020/2021.
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