The NEO was parked up beside us as I boarded a flight at MAN on Thursday night. It looks as thought the NEO had been operating out of MAN most of the week before, why then almost immediately after this announcement has it disappeared back to Luton?

Kinda plays into the narrative above that the public don’t really care much.

On a totally unrelated question, are there any plans to put the Recaro seats in the A319’s? The comfort levels between the A319 and A320 with Recaro’s is night and day.

The irony of a "NEO Roadshow" being that they only have four of them at present, but another 18 or so Old-Engines-O still to arrive which won't have eight months of wear on the carpets...

Great for fleet planning etc but amuses me that the old-and-inferior will actually be considered new-and-superior by most passengers. Unlike FlyBE's Dashes which I've often heard being described as "old aeroplanes" even just after delivery.

You are aware that some of the recent dash 8 additions to Flybe are in fact 'old aeroplanes' as they are former Repubic Airways aircraft in an exchange for that airline acquiring the former and 'newer' dash 8's from Flybe.

That's why you have often heard them being described as 'old aeroplanes' even just after delivery!

The majority of the general public think anything with propellers is old.

Post #316. I suspect there is some backtracking going on at Orange HQ.

easyflyer83:- Most of the MAN extra slots have been handed back. Only 2 extra frames (instead of 5-6) and only from late July- even that is yet to be confirmed.

My comment was regarding people assuming that Friday was an expansion announcement when it was simply the NEO roadshow that is visiting a number of bases around the network.

I have no official knowledge of expansion over and above the 13th based aircraft announced some months ago and the speculation of recent weeks.

I would have thought that by now all airlines have a good idea of how much, and to where demand lies for this summer. Given that the UK economy is growing more slowly than the economies of mainland Europe, it hardly surprising that that is where we will see growth in routes and frequency.

Usually around now both EZY and FR post additional services for at least the peak months. Maybe not this year.

From what I've seen on the MAN Thread there was slots for 18 based at MAN for this summer but this has now been reduced to 14, hopefully some route news will still come.

I think it got up to 20 at one point which always seemed rather over ambitious even taking into account the demise of MON. One-two extra based units is much more realistic.

The easyJet piece needs to be viewed in the context of two major projects they have ongoing right now, one being Berlin and the second being the introduction of the first A321s this summer. Radical gung-ho expansion elsewhere is likely to detract resource and management focus from getting both of those right and has (sensibly) been fended off.

EZY reports 5,159,860 passengers in January, +8.7% vs. Ryanair "just" +6%
Passenger Statistics for January 2018

Easyjet to seek a new UK AOC pre Brexit and also embark on heavy promotion of investing in Easyjet to non-UK shareholders in the EU.
Counting Stelios as a Cypriot, over 50 % of Easyjet shares will be held by EU citizens post Brexit. Easyjet could then move its registered office outside the UK and become a (eg Austrian) company solving the problem of Brexit

I imagine that some head office staff might need to relocate on a permanent basis to Vienna. This might perhaps explain why Easyjet don't seem particularly focussed on finding new office space in Luton at the moment

This might perhaps explain why Easyjet don't seem particularly focussed on finding new office space in Luton at the moment

What happened to Chateau Monarch?

Didn't they state at the time that they were staying put in Luton? How does moving the registered head office to Austria solve the "problem of Brexit"? They still need the Austrian AOC, the Swiss one is also staying and the majority of their flying will still be UK centric? Admin and head office functions as well as hangar space don't need to follow the paper
Is there a link? Be good to understand why they need a "new UK AOC"?

Skipness if they become Euro centric i.e. Austrian AOC, they need a UK AOC to operate UK domestic flights, possibly not to Belfast if NI stays in the Customs Union re no border between NI and Eire. What a farce!

They already have a UK AOC, they’re registered head office is in Luton. Am looking to understand why they’d need a second or new UK AOC.

Unless I'm missing something, why would EasyJet require a second AOC? Their existing UK AOC will continue to allow EasyJet to operate domestic fights within the UK, right?

The question of UK AOC was raised by Easyjet asking permission of shareholders earlier this month to amend the company Articles of Association. Shareholders formally voted it through this week - along with the CAA agreeing in all but name to grant an AOC to Easyjet UK. The chairman of Easyjet has gone on record saying Easyjet plc is now Brexit-proof. I imagine if the legal address of the company moves from the UK to Austria the details of Brexit might invalidate it for UK domestics. Getting a UK AOC for a wholly owned subsidiary rather than the parent company would remove some legal ambiguity - worth the cost of the insurance premium

Pick up a copy of yesterday's or today's FT if you don't believe me

So could this maybe mean that more of EasyJet's fleet will be registered to the Europe subsidary rather than the 110 planned?

All UK based aircraft will be UK registered and all EU based aircraft will be Austrian registered.

At the moment there is about 270 aircraft in the fleet. 140 are based in the UK and 22 are in Switzerland. That leaves about 110 for the EU fleet so those numbers are probably accurate.

So a large redeployment of actual/specific airframes then as some a/c based at STN/LTN/GLA & EDI just as example are OE- dash right now..

Yeah that's what I assumed, though I know some OE- aircraft are currently operating UK flights so I guess they will continue to until we actually leave the EU?

The big issue is nobody knows what the arrangements will be post-Brexit. Best case is similar to today with an "open skies" agreement, worst case the UK ends up with individual bilaterals with each member state, e.g. nominated operators, frequency restrictions, etc (think current UK-China agreement).

Unlikely I know, but can't see how EZY can say they're Brexit proof.

At present, all EZY services can be operated by OE- and G- registered aircraft. All EZY are saying is that, by registering 110 in Austria, they will be able to continue to operate their existing schedule after Brexit if no inter-governmental agreement is forthcoming.

The OE a/c will be able to operate within the remaining EU 27.

The G a/c will be able to operate within the UK and to any non-EU countries the UK has a bilateral agreement with.

There is no agreement yet as to what will happen between the UK and the EU 27.

No agreement yet but it will be sorted, otherwise there will be no Air France, Lufthansa, Iberia, Aer Lingus, TAP, (etc etc) flights to the UK

Aircraft move around all the time.. you’ll find in the months leading up to the spilt, depending on the outcome of negotiations that the OE regs will slowly migrate to the EU bases and vice versa

Not necessarily none, but who knows? Which is the problem - all assumptions until there's an agreement.

Maybe I've missed something, and I seek correction.

1. Easyjet have established an OE AOC to be able to continue inter-EU flights.

2. In earlier times some UK charter airlines had split destinations within EU. i.e. there was an inter-EU sector.
Will this practice be allowed, or have the airlines set up an EU AOC?

3. What happens to companies like TUI with subsidiaries in various EU countries & UK; or is there a central TUI AOC in EU? If so will TUI require a dual UK & EU AOC?

3. The G a/c will be able to operate within the UK and to any non-EU countries the UK has a bilateral agreement with.
There is no agreement yet as to what will happen between the UK and the EU 27.
If this is true have BA and all other UK airlines set up an EU AOC?

4. We hear only about ez's AOC plans: was about all the others?

You thinking about Dan Air and Monarch which used to operate from Berlin to Europe?

No. I was thinking about BY that might fly occasional split destinations in Spain or Greece,

Before open skies airlines could only operate freely (no need individual agreements), therefore a G- reg airline could only operate flights To/From the UK. An OE- reg airline could only operate flights To/From Austria. Then the European open skies happened, which allowed any EU airline to operate To/From any EU airport to another EU airport. This is why the likes of Ryanair, Easyjet, Norwegian, Wizz, can operate from and to countries they are not registered in.

The fear (note no one actually knows at this point!) is after Brexit that the UK will not be part of the open skies, and therefore:-

Ryanair would only be able to operate to the UK from Ireland
Wizzair would only be able to operate to the UK from Hungary
Norwegian would only be able to operate to the UK from Scandinavia
Easyjet would be able to operate to/from UK to anywhere, but would NOT be able to operate flights not going to/from UK

As all 4 of these airlines have significant capacity either in the UK, or in EZYs case, not in the UK they are preparing for this scenario with new AOCs either in or outside of the UK to retain traffic rights post Brexit.

BA and Virgin are un-affected by this scenario as all of their flights start or finish in the UK

PS. I believe charter flights fall under different traffic right rules compared to scheduled

It could be worse than that depending on what happened legally when an existing UK air service agreement such as with the US was superseded by a collective agreement between the EU and the third country. If the EU one is no longer valid does everything revert to the previous agreement, or is there then a need for a new agreement to be negotiated? If the latter then on the day after Brexit, assuming no new agreement has been reached to kick in, we could face a situation where only U.K. domestic flights could operate.

Well, did the pro-Brexit rhetoricians remember to mention these "odds and ends" before the crucial referendum one and a half years ago?

It could be worse than that in that many countries didn't exist before we joined the EU, so there is no agreement to revert back to, though clearly we are getting away from the EZY discussion now.

Getting back on point, I'd be skeptical of any airline saying they are Brexit Proof - more like, "we have now done as much as we practically can do based on the limited information available"

Were people now able to travel before EU? I can remember travelling with no issues why will it be such a problem now? Is the world going to end?

You were able to travel because there were international agreements in place. Many of these have been superseded since we joined the EU. They need to be re-negotiated - as of now, they haven't been.

The world is unlikely to end, but would you bet your business on it?

We have to remember these days British Airways are only a subsidiary of an airline group. That Spanish company IAG has at least five EU AOCs, Iberia, Vueling, Aer Lingus, Level & Openskies and two UK AOCs BA & Cityflier. I believe that’s why they haven’t needed to change. Now the question is do the companies need to fly G-reg aircraft from the UK or can they wetlease an EU reg in if required? What about TUI (they have EU AOC as are German company but still have Thomson’s UK AOC) can they just sub in a German or Skandi plane when needed? Thomas Cook as a German company (Condor) they have both AOCs but move their fleet around. I’m not sure Flybe still do charters in Finland or Loganair in the Rep of Ireland but I presume they won’t register for an EU AOC. Though do BMI still do charter work for Airbus, will Loganair/BMI need to obtain an EU AOC or will it make the routes not worth it. Anyway we can’t even deal with Eire/Northern Ireland Border so I don’t think this will be solved soon.

BMI don't do the airbus contract any more Eastern do airbus contract with E145 aircraft.

Going back to pre open skies days would be a terrible problem. No, the world wouldn't end. But we'd have far less choice and it would cost more.