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Originally Posted by toledoashley
(Post 10310672)
There is also a difference in actively seeking for a merger/take over and being approached for one...
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Virgin would be another option but I think they have bigger fish to fry. Bit of an outsider though IMHO, i'd peg Stobart for the takeover. Remember when their bid was rejected earlier in the year because FlyBe though they were being undervalued?...now the company is worth around 1/10th of the price, it would seem like a steal to them |
Why the assumption that the buyer will be an airline? Surely the "usual suspects" will have been approached before there was a public announcement?
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Can't help but think that the shareholders should be held to account here, they had the chance to save the airline when Stobart came in but they said no and thought that they could do better. Now the company is worth nowhere near what Stobart offered and so they will all be out of pocket and we could see the end of BE. If Stobart do go back in for BE it would be a steal for them however with the state the business is in would Stobart have the time and money to turn things around? |
BA Citiflyer would be an ideal candidate. I know its a massive expansion but it would be for whoever looked at it.
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How strong are Loganair/Bmi Regional? Could they "buy" in the way that BA bought Dan Air, ( e.g. for £5) retaining some E-Jets and crews operating ex BHX, SOU and MAN. BMi could drop the regional and become British Midland once again unless BA hold the rights to that name. Stobart would take over IOM,NQY. LCY would be left to an expanded BA Cityflyer. Easy to pick up some sun routes where viable e.g. SOU and EXT.
VS won't return to domestic flying- they weren't "VS Atlanta" when they dabbled with that. LHR domestic will be BA BA BA again. |
Funny, but they seem to blame it all on outside factors & not attribute even only a small part of their misfortunes on “bad management”. |
Originally Posted by kcockayne
(Post 10310747)
Funny, but they seem to blame it all on outside factors & not attribute even only a small part of their misfortunes on “bad management”. Well there's a surprise!! |
IAG it, rebrand to Aer Lingus Regional The fact that Stobart have already started flying a couple of EMB's (or are about to) for CFE could be described as interesting. |
Maybe from an interested airlines point of view is to let Flybe fold and just grab the routes they think are profitable without taking on the liabilities of Flybe
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The fact that Stobart have already started flying a couple of EMB's (or are about to) for CFE could be described as interesting. |
Originally Posted by LTNman
(Post 10310756)
Maybe from an interested airlines point of view is to let Flybe fold and just grab the routes they think are profitable without taking on the liabilities of Flybe
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Blaming Brexit ? I thought Flybe were taking a kicking thanks to EU261 and Brexit offered the best chance of becoming exempt. Not so long ago my family had a 5 hour delay on the way home which not only paid for all flights but made me a 4 figure profit. That has to be wrong but thank you Brussels.
Easy's share price is virtually unchanged year on year and they are in the same market so Flybe's excuses are totally bolleaux. Nothing at all to do with paying the over-rated CEO a shed load of "golden hello's" then ? |
Is the plan to sell as one business or hive off different departments? My monies on divide it up and sell what you can. Better that than going belly up!
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Originally Posted by ATNotts
(Post 10310771)
More likely a pre-pack administration, where the sale is agreed before entering administration, ensuring continuity of service, whilst the creditors are hung out to dry. Either that or a purchase by a bunch of venture capitalist sharks such as Greybull.
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Easy's share price is virtually unchanged year on year and they are in the same market so Flybe's excuses are totally bolleaux. Nothing at all to do with paying the over-rated CEO a shed load of "golden hello's" then ? FlyBe is suffering in the same way as most regional carriers in recent history have, too many intra regional services making too little, if any money. In the scheme of things only the major secondary trunk routes such as those between SOU / BHX / MAN / CWL and Scotland / NI, plus connections between the likes of MAN / BHX / SOU to major European business centres are truly viable with the fleet that BE operate. Any new owner is going to drastically cut back on peripheral, marginal services which will bode badly for some UK airports. |
My money will be on IAG, restructure the routes, some branded to Cityflyer and some to vueling. Either way there will be a dramatic reduction of routes and expect prices to rise for passengers.
Alot of airlines have an interested in the outcome as flybe feed many passengers into their hubs for international routes etc. VS for example. Lots of uncertainty for staff, my thoughts are with you at this unsettled time. |
Originally Posted by ATNotts
(Post 10310784)
EasyJet are in a completely different market, largely London centric in UK, and really a pan European airline.
FlyBe is suffering in the same way as most regional carriers in recent history have, too many intra regional services making too little, if any money. In the scheme of things only the major secondary trunk routes such as those between SOU / BHX / MAN / CWL and Scotland / NI, plus connections between the likes of MAN / BHX / SOU to major European business centres are truly viable with the fleet that BE operate. Any new owner is going to drastically cut back on peripheral, marginal services which will bode badly for some UK airports. |
In terms of a sale, Flybe management have made a bit of a rod for their own back banging on about how expensive and unprofitable the E195s are. Who'd want to take that on? I'm with ATNotts - pre-pack Administration or just insolvency with the others nipping in to pick up the "worthwhile" routes (Loganair back on GLA MAN for example).
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The fact that Stobart have already started flying a couple of EMB's (or are about to) for CFE could be described as interesting. Could it? In what way? Even if the above happens, likely to be bad news for even the larger bases and for or Exeter in general :-( I fly with BEE quite a bit and the people are great - sad to see this happening. |
Originally Posted by mik3bravo
(Post 10310676)
True, but shareholders run the show now, board largely irrelevant under these circumstances.
They do have shares in FlyBE Group Plc which is a holding company ( formerly Walker Aviation Ltd ). So they can tell that board what to do, but not the airline management. The aircraft which are owned directly are registered to FlyBE Ltd, rather than the Group, which could make a sale of that unit quite straiightforward; own aircraft, no public shareholders. Likewise FlyBE Aviation Services Ltd is a nice tidy little MRO package, complete with a contract for A400 work. I forsee the individual units being sold-off and the Group fading away into nothingness. |
If BA CITIflyer did get it I fear for the Exeter HQ.
I assume they would move the HQ to Manchester where the CF headquarters staff are based. |
Originally Posted by ATNotts
(Post 10310784)
EasyJet are in a completely different market, largely London centric in UK, and really a pan European airline.
Anyway, good of Flybe to blame Brexit and hide the news on a day when that subject will dominate the headlines. Coincidence ? I think not. |
You have to wonder who would hire Christine Ourmieres-Widener after this. She hasn't done well at Cityjet or Flybe.
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Originally Posted by BA318
(Post 10310867)
You have to wonder who would hire Christine Ourmieres-Widener after this. She hasn't done well at Cityjet or Flybe.
Such a shame, but fingers crossed for a very positive outcome for all involved with the company. Especially its very hard working and passionate frontline staff. Flybe are a very good airline with a very good product for its market. I hope it gets the investment and leadership it needs and remains as Flybe. |
Originally Posted by El Bunto
(Post 10310832)
The public shareholders, incidentally, don't have any share in the actual airline. It remains a limited company ( FlyBE Ltd ).
They do have shares in FlyBE Group Plc which is a holding company ( formerly Walker Aviation Ltd ). So they can tell that board what to do, but not the airline management. The aircraft which are owned directly are registered to FlyBE Ltd, rather than the Group, which could make a sale of that unit quite straiightforward; own aircraft, no public shareholders. Likewise FlyBE Aviation Services Ltd is a nice tidy little MRO package, complete with a contract for A400 work. I forsee the individual units being sold-off and the Group fading away into nothingness. I remember Walker when he ran his steel company and moved to Jersey and invested in building Jersey European. Indeed the instructor who sent me solo was later employed as a pilot flying their old twin Otters.. A lot of their business has been built on routes that are just about marginal. Norwich falls in to that arena. With the decline in operations in the southern North Sea one has to ask how much longer the regular revenue from oil traffic will support the airport. If we spool back a few years ago we had this fiasco. In 2008, in order to avoid losing a £280,000 rebate from Norwich Flybe advertised for "actors", as well as offering free return flights to Dublin on its website. Eastern,Flybe and Loganair face tough times ahead as do some of the airports they serve. |
You have to wonder who would hire Christine Ourmieres-Widener after this. |
The old 'Jersey European' culture still exists to this day, probably why they're in such a spot
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Current owners are in this link https://www.marketscreener.com/FLYBE...78595/company/
Break up value is greater than value of the company on Stock Exchange which is not a good thing. This means someone can buy and break up all the parts of it................... or as they are better known as "asset strip". |
Heard earlier today a big middle eastern opeartor is interested if true it good be good news Emirates maybe? |
I see that the share price has risen only a little, which suggests that the market isn't anticipating any bidding war.
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Probably not the best day to break the news with all the Brexit news or was it a ploy? I am sure there are more than one or two Airport commercial departments having a very reflectave and contemplatery conversation with the airport teams today.
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And by the end of day the shares were down slightly.
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More I analyse this, the more I'm coming back to the same conclusion as a few of you have speculated. Potentially, administration. Asset strip constituent entities to maximise asset disposal values, reconcile debtors and creditors, leave warranties & indemnities insurance to respond to residual liabilities. That may be the optimum as opposed to a rescue package with its significant risks.
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Dont shoot the messenger but have just seen this story online...
https://www.ft.com/content/9d5ab702-...-04b8afea6ea3t The story mentions the flybe LGW slots? LGW to NQY?....... I was thinking as I read the story about easyJet acquiring flybe - Manchester slots? flybe have a big operation at MAN - Surely easyJet would be interested in MAN slots... |
According to the FT EasyJet and Stobart are both looking at Flybe, EZY interested in parts of the business and STK the whole entity.or parts.
Stobart is not now ruling out another bid, potentially with the same structure as before — co-investment with a private equity partner and taken off Stobart’s balance sheet. That latter statement seems quite specific so perhaps there might be more to it then the general speculation that is doing the rounds |
Originally Posted by Brigantee
(Post 10310970)
Heard earlier today a big middle eastern opeartor is interested if true it good be good news Emirates maybe? Lets face it what would Flybe offer to someone like that ? |
Originally Posted by Tagron
(Post 10311470)
According to the FT EasyJet and Stobart are both looking at Flybe, EZY interested in parts of the business and STK the whole entity.or parts.
Stobart is not now ruling out another bid, potentially with the same structure as before — co-investment with a private equity partner and taken off Stobart’s balance sheet. That latter statement seems quite specific so perhaps there might be more to it then the general speculation that is doing the rounds |
Originally Posted by ib26uk
(Post 10311464)
Dont shoot the messenger but have just seen this story online...
https://www.ft.com/content/9d5ab702-...-04b8afea6ea3t The story mentions the flybe LGW slots? LGW to NQY?....... I was thinking as I read the story about easyJet acquiring flybe - Manchester slots? flybe have a big operation at MAN - Surely easyJet would be interested in MAN slots... Whilst MAG might be grateful EZY take the MAN slots they will be shelll shocked if domestic air bridge disintegrates! |
Airport slots belong to the operating airline unless there is another agreement (such as a remedy agreement) that precludes this. Without the airline, the slot doesn't effectively exist for the airport to do anything with, thus no airport can ultimately decide what an airline does with this asset. |
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