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-   -   Manchester-2 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599775-manchester-2-a.html)

Ivan aromer 20th Jun 2018 14:12

Noticed on the side of a Flybee dash this morning, "quicker than the car or train" call me old fashioned but with the present security queues at T1, I think they could be done under the ASA misleading adverts. LOL

Betablockeruk 20th Jun 2018 14:12


Originally Posted by azz767 (Post 10177326)
Anyone know why AA operated a 767 on the PHL route today as opposed to the standard 330?

https://www.flightstats.com/v2/fligh...htId=963131655

Changed equipment very early on the 19th. Anything else would be a total guess... maintenance delay on 330s etc.

FR24 has it down for 763 for today and tomorrows departure but that's not usually realiable

LFC22 20th Jun 2018 16:52

Posted in the "who handles who" thread but thought I'd also ask in here to get a quicker response. Any truth to the rumours that DHL are taking the Eeasyjet contract from Menzies?

OltonPete 20th Jun 2018 18:46

DHL
 

Originally Posted by LFC22 (Post 10177561)
Posted in the "who handles who" thread but thought I'd also ask in here to get a quicker response. Any truth to the rumours that DHL are taking the Eeasyjet contract from Menzies?

No idea if true but at least would give a whole new meaning to "SLF" - sorry I couldn't resist but I thought the thread could do with something a little bit different.

April CAA Pax

I did check out most of the long-haul but mislaid them although I have revisited some and it is a mixed bag with Doha down 9% at around 79% load factor, Dubai up 4% around 484 per flight 88%, Singapore down 15%, Beijing down 3% around 65%, Hong Kong up 37%, Newark up 14%, JFK down 7%, Orlando down 14%, PHL up 2% and Muscat averaged 195. The shock for me was the Boston, Chicago and San Francisco all nil compared to last April - I must keep up.

Pete

LAX_LHR 20th Jun 2018 19:14

It’s been reported that the Dubai annual rolling total has now surpassed the 1m pax mark.

Scottie Dog 20th Jun 2018 19:32


Originally Posted by LAX_LHR (Post 10177663)
Itís been reported that the Dubai annual rolling total has now surpassed the 1m pax mark.

Indeed, according to CAA stats, the figure is 1,002,238.

ZOOKER 20th Jun 2018 19:33

Mr A Tis,

How can someone, working a "14 hour day", compounded by the effects of 'jet-lag', on flights between Hong Kong and Europe, possibly be expected to make cognitive and accurate 'business decisions'?

OltonPete 20th Jun 2018 19:55

Dubai
 

Originally Posted by Scottie Dog (Post 10177680)
Indeed, according to CAA stats, the figure is 1,002,238.

Dubai - agreed as March rolling was 999237

Pete

pholling 20th Jun 2018 20:10


Originally Posted by FFMAN (Post 10177211)
...

As well as lack of staff, the security system itself is partly the problem. Instead of the old system where one person is processed at a time (in / out and gone) the system of having your search belongings separated slows things down dramatically. Here's what happens: you arrive at a loading point - you are one of four at each station. The other three are your 'competitors' . You pick a tray, load it and then wait for a gap to put it on the belt. And wait.... because the belt has stopped loading (see later). This slows you down because you can't pick up another tray until the previous one can be pushed through. So you wait some more. I would guess that the average number of trays per pax is three so multiply that delay by three.
Also at this point the insistence on putting carry on bags into a tray is just nonsense - I have noticed a number of foreign airports have tried this and now stopped it - Dublin being the most recent.
So through the actual body scan - no problems there. Now to the other delay at the other end. Since your three trays have been loaded separately at the front end, they come out with other people's trays mixed among them. Your first tray may be three trays in front of the second and so on. I have been counting this recently to prove my point. My last time through T1 Security A - my third tray came 16 trays after the second one (although I accept that was extreme). So again you wait. If just one tray of the average three is redirected for a manual search, the other two often remain on the belt until the search is done.This causes the belt at the delivery end to back up, causing it to stop and stopping the front belt - therefore causing further delays at the front end (see earlier).

The single loading system used at Frankfurt works properly since none of the above problems occur - you load all your trays sequentially - the result being there are rarely any security queues at an airport almost 3 time the size of MAN. Average wait at FRA is less than 5 mins I would say.

I can only suggest to the frequent flyers who are frustrated that they complain to the airlines and tell them about it.
MAN management will not listen to or care about pax but they might listen to airlines.

The 4 at a time method should be much faster per lane, overall, than the one at a time, at least in theory. The reason is simple queuing theory and first-in-first out (FIFO) dispatch stacks. If you have a system that can process an item every 4 seconds that costs a lot of money to install and operate you want to keep it full the entire time. If you have a single dispatch stack that can add an item to be processed every 4 seconds with no uncertainty, then it works well. The moment that goes above 4 seconds you get dead time. Further if you have high variability in the latency and throughput at the top end you get lots of wasted time. In Manchester I have seen people spend over a minute preparing their bags and such at the front of the queue, as one-in-one out would be frozen for the entirety of the time. With 4 dispatch queues no one delay stops the system. The problem is that the items go through in an order nearly the reverse of how you want them received. Your laptop, belt, liquids, etc often go through first and your bag last. This means that you cannot clear all of your stuff until the last tray comes through, another classic queuing issue. The secondary screening situation is somewhat independent of the dispatch method as people tend to leave their stuff while waiting for the items that needs to be checked. This is often the main bag.

The thing I have noticed flying in an out of lots of places is the traveler mix can have a significant impact on the time it takes to go through security. People that fly more often tend to be a lot faster than people that fly less often, independent of what type of trip they are on. When I traveled multiple times a month for work I was much more efficient at passing through security than I am now, when I travel much less. MAN has a fairly high percentage of travellers who do so once or twice a year, or even less often. They tend to reduce the throughput of the security process. Where MAG makes this worse is they have a very high hourly vs 2-hourly capacity in there departure declarations, all around 60%. This means that they are planning for security and such to be more congested in each part of the moving window. Other leisure heavy airports, e.g. LGW and STN, tend to be lower ~55%. Since delays are a marginal effect these extra passengers can have a huge impact on the wait times. Unfortunately, it is not really possible to easily add lanes to the security system, though the lower level T1 security is a definite exception. However, they could staff more lanes in many hours to reduce the backlogs.

As for the trays for your bags, this has to do with associating images with bags for secondary screening. Again, it should make it quicker to identify and find the offending item in the bag and minimise the amount of searching and re-screening.

As a side question, when you go through security how many trays do you typically end up using? It would be interesting to see what the averages are at different airports.

ZOOKER 20th Jun 2018 20:36

pholling,

Hilarious post.

Why don't we establish a U.K. degree-course......BSc. (Hons) in 'Going through security'?

FFHKG 20th Jun 2018 22:29

Try going through some of the Asian airports where they have high numbers of passengers, especially from China, who are first time flyers..... they do not have the problems that Manchester seems to have in the security areas. They are calm, no shouting, and still manage to process the passengers without the daily disruption that Manchester creates. Even in the UK, Gatwick probably has as many infrequent flyers, if not more than MAN, but still their security is speedy and CALM.

I just wish people would stop finding excuses as why MAN has the problems that few other airports world-wide have.

Scottie Dog 21st Jun 2018 07:09

Manchester April statistics
 
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...6e0a6b19df.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...f1d00191b1.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...2639db662f.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...c71fb27001.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...25dacd25d2.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...1016edfb1e.jpg

LAX_LHR 21st Jun 2018 08:33

MAN is understood to be close to securing a 3 weekly Delhi link with Air India, after assuring the board a service would not affect LHR/BHX loadings.

RAS_2001 21st Jun 2018 09:53

What happened to the Thai Airways rumours, have they all been flushed down the plug hole?

It was mentioned once in an article stating that they planned on commencing a 4x weekly service to BKK, but was reported nowhere else.

eye2eye5 21st Jun 2018 09:56

8.5% Pakistani origin and 2.3% Indian according to latest census details.

LAX_LHR 21st Jun 2018 09:59

I think these new Indian routes are aimed at business and leisure rather than VFR. A few Indian tech firms are starting up in Manchester and there are a few other business links like chemical contracts (Runcorn).

DEL can also act as a transit point too with multiple options like Australia and China (especially price driven pax).

LAX_LHR 21st Jun 2018 11:49

BHX5DME/Ian F had asked on another forum if MAN had seen over 100 different B787 (due BHX making that number). given I cannot answer on there, I can answer here.

MAN has definately surpassed the 100 mark (as it has done for the A380 also), with B787 visits from (numbers may be slightly out but don’t keep data myself so relying on 3rd party):

Boeing house (1)
LOT (1)
TUI U.K (13)
TUI Netherlands (2)
Virgin (5)
Etihad (11)
Hainan (21?)
American (10?)
United (1)
Saudia (11)
British Airways (2)
Qatar (30?)

soon to be joined by Ethiopian from Nov and Oman Air from Jul)

HTH Ian.


Curious Pax 21st Jun 2018 14:48


Originally Posted by LAX_LHR (Post 10178251)
BHX5DME/Ian F had asked on another forum if MAN had seen over 100 different B787 (due BHX making that number). given I cannot answer on there, I can answer here.

MAN has definately surpassed the 100 mark (as it has done for the A380 also), with B787 visits from (numbers may be slightly out but donít keep data myself so relying on 3rd party):

Boeing house (1)
LOT (1)
TUI U.K (13)
TUI Netherlands (2)
Virgin (5)
Etihad (11)
Hainan (21?)
American (10?)
United (1)
Saudia (11)
British Airways (2)
Qatar (38?)

soon to be joined by Ethiopian from Nov and Oman Air from Jul)

HTH Ian.

Qatar only have 30, all of which have been in, similarly all 13 Saudi 789s
American have sent in 19 out of 20 788s
I found 13 Etihad 789s, and 19 Hainan (10 -8s and 9 -9s)

LAX_LHR 21st Jun 2018 15:04

Cheer curiouspax. As said was relying off 3rd hand info so good to be corrected.


Navpi 21st Jun 2018 17:18

Lots of Indian tech companies see "Manchester as the new London", their comment not mine !

Manchester is about to become the 1st and largest 5G infastructure in the UK, rents are clearly much lower and it has the largest graduate population/ pipeline in Europe. Many articles in the Indian press have referenced these comments. It's almost certainly the main reason why Indian airlines are circling. It seems to be fast becoming the go - to place for Indian tech incubators.

If the train infastructure wasn't so totally clapped out the beneficial effects could ripple out beyond the M60.


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