Bit patronising, don’t you think? At around 4.7m pax pa, throughput at East Midlands is only about 750k below T3’s declared capacity...

T3 is not designed to be a lo-co hub. And yes, I've only been in there about 1,000 times

If anyone needs to look at forward thinking airport development, pop down to Lyon. The place only handles about 10M pax but there is acres of space, a new departure lounge has just been added and more space is currently being added.
It also has a semi remote bus/train/tram terminal like Manchester- but again in a lovely spacious transport hub. Wide skylink with facilities and working walkways.
The development is way ahead of the game, so much space, seating, charging points by seats. The way Manchester used to be under Gil Thompson.
On a good day T3 is passable, on a bad day its diabolical. As been said, it means departing from a cramped pub, people sat on the floor, gates inaccessable due crowding and unless youve got lounge access lucky if you can get a coffee.
I avoid T3 flights were possible and I am aware of people who now favour other airports in general.
The TP is too little too late(by ten years) the shown designs are narrow and look cramped.
At the very least they could get lifts, walkways and escaltors working along with better traffic flows (maybe invest something in public transport?). Also curb the lager pub culture which is fine in moderation, but it's clearly out of hand given the number of in flight troubles this year,and downgrading of catering establishments.

Now all they have to do is get the ‘parking marshals’ to direct drivers to the furthest drop offs from the terminal entrance road rather than them standing there with their hands in their pockets letting people drop anywhere ie, in the middle of the road

Quote from Airlineroute on twitter
Thomas Cook Airlines UK seems to be jumping ahead by listing daily Manchester - New York flight in W18. Actual search still lists 1-3 wkly

Traffic marshals do all they can to send the cars down to the bottom but when drivers ignore them or are so selfish that it is only them that matters so just park in the road. The marshals have no powers and the taxi drivers know this . But come early next year you will have to pay to drop off and pick up .

Really? They are introducing drop off charges - from when, and where has it been announced?

Not been announced yet but will be announced befor year end for a april roll out date ... Prices have not been soted but looking at £2-£4 ..

The drop off fee was discussed but has now been dropped as it is unworkable in the current climate.

They wanted to try and calm traffic around the site but have decided the fee would make things worse. A bit like when they used to charge for plastic bags but then realised it was actually slowing the security process down by people fumbling for change if they didn't have the right liquids bag.

Another example, the drop off outside Olympic house can't have barriers installed as it's an approach road to the car park and several buses use it too, so would have to remain free in the face of charges upstairs in T1. Same for T3, fees would be unworkable.

I hope you are right LAX as it would be chaotic

Ian

There's plenty you can criticise MAN for, but this one seems a bit unfair. There's regular train services to and from the airport, the Metrolink has been extended out there. I'm not sure what more MAN can be expected to do in that regard.

I agree with above.

For all of the perceived faults of MAN, public transport is not one.

There are 24 hours bus routes, coaches up and down the country, trains up as far as Edinburgh and a metro link which itself isn't far off being 24 hours. What more could MAN do (apart from.....)

The only thing that could be improved is the southern link rail provision, but that's a central government issue and franchise problem, not MAN.

Completely disagree about the above. Unless you live on a train line or Wythenshawe -public transport is dire. Some routes are duplicated whilst vast areas within 10 miles radius are cut off.
The facts speak for themselves, Out of Manchester Airport passengers and staff only 14% use public transport, one of the lowest of the UK Airports. Whereas all London Airports attract over 40% useage and almost all the others have a better take up.
Car parking is a huge cash cow and is a much higher priority, hence taxiways used for car parks, and the subsequent traffic chaos around terminals.
I used to take a local bus, now withdrawn after 40 years(like so many others) so I use taxis instead, thus adding to the Terminal congestion.
Many moons ago- MAN used to provide some bus subsidies to TfGM and had the introduction of Skylink bus services- these have almost all been withdrawn in favour of continuous car park promotions instead.

Was dropped of at Terminal 1, two weeks ago on a Sunday morning at 08.00 so just after the morning peak. It was chaotic, can’t imagine what it would be like midweek. If a drop of charge were introduced anytime in the near future this chaos would be much worse IMO.
I can see a charge being introduced when all the Terminal work is finished . . . Someone will gave to pay for the upgrade after all.

The problem is less so with trains and trams and more with bus routes. Over recent years bus routes to/from the airport have been cut back hugely.


A further problem with the lack of public transport uptake by passengers travelling to/from MAN is the lack of publicity (even with regards to the train). Many people that drive everywhere do not know about the rail connections to the airport. This also applies to bus routes, people nowadays don't know their local bus routes and therefore will travel everywhere in a car. This ultimately leads to the cancellation of certain bus routes.


The 200 bus service from Wilmslow to the Viewing Park is the next to go, ends on the 31st of March 2018.

In fairness, even if you had the best bus network in Europe, how many passengers would lug their luggage on to a bus? Very few I would wager.
Buses are great for staff but not for pax.

Back to T3 problems.....I think most people could accept some short term pain for long term gain if there was a plan. Trouble is there is no plan. I'm not even convinced that MAN even accept that they have a problem (or problems). Some of the replies on here, presumably from people that work at the airport, imply this.

If they don't recognize the problems, they are a long way off finding solutions. That's what is so frustrating along with pax never being listened to. When you have people saying it's so bad they are prepared to use other airports then there is a problem....but those in charge just appear to be constantly in denial.

Whatever happened to the sensible looking plan to build a new distributor road parallel to the railway? This would have allowed the old Ringway Road to be closed. A new check in and security area could be built in its place freeing up significant space for airside 'breathing space' within the existing building envelope.

But no....let's demolish half of T2 instead, the only terminal of the three that actually was fit for purpose......

Transport to MAN:

There are some very valid points made of the issues affecting public transport to the airport. I've little knowledge about bus services but am more familiar with trains.

In many ways, there are a good selection of train services, especially from the West, North and North East. However, even where there is a direct train, it will often be dependent on how convenient a passenger's local station is, be it Leeds, Preston, Burnage or wherever. And there are significant gaps - the corridors from Macclesfield to Stockport and Buxton to Stockport as well as from areas such as Knutsford & Northwich, where train journeys would involve going via Manchester; and from the south, East Midlands etc. changing at Crewe.

However, the airport station is constrained by the number of platforms, track lay-out and paths into Manchester Piccadilly.

In terms of numbers, the airport has added 10m passengers since 2009. Do we have any specific numbers for passengers arriving at and departing from the rail station over that period and whether they have risen exponentially?

As regards cars, having to use part of a taxiway for parking them doesn't reflect well on the airport I'm afraid. I hope it's very much short term and will not be repeated next summer.

FFMan They have to pull the old pier down in oreder to build the new one which is already into build mode and is rising quite fast from it`s start point on the old staff west car park and will then be joined onto the old T2 minnus the pier around the high numbered stands 212 to 215 which are now have a temporary building, I think LAX-LHR
can fill in more than me

This is correct. Considering that the Transformation Programme is effectively doubling the size of it, the suggestion that they're "demolishing half of T2" is woefully wide of the mark.

Of course it's not just the terminals that pose a problem. Airside the taxiway layout causes congestion and i think it's absurd that the UK's 3rd largest airport decides to take out of service the most used holding point and taxiway on the entire airfield and make it into a car park ... and the general taxiway infrastructure especially around T3/1 is shocking - frequently you can wait 10-20 mins after doors closed for a push clearance and then another 10-15 mins at the hold ...

New route time, and we have a random pair. Cambridge and Gothenburg:

BA8235 MAN 0720 CBG 0805/0830 GOT 1130
BA8236 GOT 1625 CBG 1725 /1750 MAN 1835

Mon/Tue/Thu from Oct 30th

Will be interesting to see what the aircraft does either side of these flights as clearly the aircraft starts/ends its day at MAN but I cannot see another flight that gets the aircraft to MAN (such as extra BLL flights).

I also highly doubt the MAN-CBG-MAN sectors will be bookable as stand alone flights,

Publicly viewable in the OneWorld timetable.

This is the existing AstraZeneca corporate flight that SunAir operate, which used to be publicly bookable between CBG and GOT but ceased to be so after Cambridge stopped being a passenger airport. I assume it has been put in the public timetable in error?

This is a new extension to MAN. BA currently doesn't serve GOT from MAN (it used to) so this is a *new* route.

MAN-CBG-GOT 0730-1130 BA8235 Mon, Tue and Thur
GOT-CBG-MAN 1625-1835 BA8236 Mon, Wed and Thur

Source - Amadeus

Departure time from MAN is 0720 on Amadeus too, as written in my original post.

Yes - I know that, but it's not the point I was making. T2 used to be the only good terminal. Now all three are a mess for the next few years.

The Transformation Program required both T1 and T3 to be 'transformed'. Instead they chose to transform the perfectly serviceable T2.

RE: Public transport

I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's actually very difficult to get passengers to arrive via public transport. MAN is still a very leisure airport with the once or twice a year brigade travelling on their hard earned holiday. Suggest travelling their by train and they'll be "sod that, we're getting a taxi". It's very hard to compete with travelling door to door. For many of those people the holiday still begins at the airport, they don't want the faff (or perceived faff) of getting a train, they'd rather treat themselves to a taxi or hotel/car parking. Plus, when travelling in a family or group, a taxi/mini bus us far more economical in most cases.

You do see a difference in travelling habits between flights however. Many tend to use the train on business/city route pairs when passengers also tend to fly more frequently.

Why is it that MAN finds it more difficult to encourage public transport than other airports? It's something like 30% at EDI, and it only has tram bus or coach. The days of most people lugging large suitcases are surely gone?

I dont know what else MAN can do really. The fact we have all these links yet some are still calling it poor, I just really don't know where MAN can go next.

I'm part of the problem. Not a chance I'd drag cases on / off buses or trains to get to an airport, with wife and kids in tow. Advertise all they want, cases and public transport dont mix for me. Car or taxi only. I think many are the same.

Very few leisure flights have train friendly flight times for both outbound and return legs. Usually, either your flights in the first wave of departures, in which case there are no trains to the airport early enough - or in the later wave, which generally means landing back in the early hours, where there are no trains for many hours.

We looked at travelling to MAN by train for our annual holiday this year.
Sounded great in principle - around 2 hours door to door. Train fare worked out around £50 for both of us - similar to a weeks parking - certainly sounded more attractive than a 3am drive over woodhead pass!

Problem is - Outbound flight left at 7am on a Sunday morning (so had to get to the airport around 11pm and hang around for 8 hours, or pay for a hotel) Return flight landed early hours of the following Monday morning (No trains). Who wants to sit at Manchester Airport for 4 hours waiting for the first train in the morning, after spending best part of a day travelling?

We drove, and used Jetparks!

Last time I flew from MAN I took the train from the North East - never again.

There are three all-night services to EDI - from city centre, Fife and Glasgow. Mancunians seem to have a problem.

I think you will find there are a lot more than Mancunians fly from Manchester :ok:

I work for a ‘airport hotel’ driving passengers to/from the terminals. I can assure you that whether they come from Scotland, the South West or even as close as Rochdale (not kidding), the ones I’ve met would not consider driving as an alternative to the stress and in a majority of cases the cost of parking and an overnight stay at a hotel.

The CAA official stats disagree with you doublesix...a massive 84% of MAN's passengers get to the airport via car or taxi. That is very high considering MANs excellent transport links, nightmare roads and expensive parking, but those are the stats...and I cant talk...I am one of the 84% and no matter what they do I probably always will be.

Public transport is very good to the airport i use it all the time never had a problem.... I think people just turn there nose up at it its a lot cheaper than driving and parking up. The station is about the best building at the airport. Plenty of space to mill about

Bus services have been hammered notably the 369. As for parking, just stick your car on a back street in Heald Green. Or leave it on my driveway. T2 was always designed to have a "T2B island", I know this as I know the the person who put the comms in; My late Dad

We fly from man t1 a lot and we live about 2 hours drive away. It tend to be heald green prem inn for a cheap overnight then T1 meet and greet.

Public transport when we land bleary eyed at 3 in the morning with luggage is just not happening.

Ex Cargo clown why on earth they took the 369 off is crazy my public transport option wiped out