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-   -   Manchester-2 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599775-manchester-2-a.html)

pholling 8th Mar 2019 15:15


Originally Posted by BHX5DME (Post 10410139)
maybe still working in progress but Ryanair appear to have cut MAN-BFS from twice daily to twice weekly from W19/20
Big loss of seats

????

Wonder why they would do that? Given the EZY and BE routing on the MAN-Belfast sector 2x weekly would be just about useless, I can't imagine that would be the best use of that aircraft.

BHX5DME 8th Mar 2019 15:17


Originally Posted by pholling (Post 10410625)
????

Wonder why they would do that? Given the EZY and BE routing on the MAN-Belfast sector 2x weekly would be just about useless, I can't imagine that would be the best use of that aircraft.


As I say I think it is still work in progress as BFS-STN also showing at just 2 per week

pholling 8th Mar 2019 15:26


Originally Posted by BHX5DME (Post 10410627)
As I say I think it is still work in progress as BFS-STN also showing at just 2 per week

The BBC article on it seems to indicate that both MAN and STN are going to 2x weekly. According to the thread on the BFS forum it looks like 1 aircraft based at BFS in W19/20. I will admit I am scratching my head at this. At least base the sole remaining A/C out of other airports and save the fixed costs.

Am I correct in understanding that the BFS-MAN flights are Friday and Sunday This sounds like they are aiming for the construction and football traffic. What are the timings?

Scottie Dog 10th Mar 2019 08:59

If that is true then surely heads should roll? Where has checking and double checking gone wrong? Why has it taken until now for any errors to have been found?
The only problem with rolling heads is that they become an H&S issue as you're likely to trip over them.

ZOOKER 10th Mar 2019 10:44

When T2 was originally built in the early 1990s, I think there was a plan for a 'pier' or similar structure, on the grass between T2 and the cargo village, where the remote stands are. I seem to remember talk of an underground walkway/travellator under the apron to access said structure. Wasn't it shelved because of 'clearance issues'?

MANworker 10th Mar 2019 19:42


Originally Posted by Scottie Dog (Post 10412072)
If that is true then surely heads should roll? Where has checking and double checking gone wrong? Why has it taken until now for any errors to have been found?
The only problem with rolling heads is that they become an H&S issue as you're likely to trip over them.

I believe they’re working quickly as possible to rectify as much as they can prior to 1st April, no doubt there will be issues arising as there always are in projects such as these. To be fair to MAG they’ve realised the mistakes they’ve made which have led to this point and are now doing everything they can to ensure that they don’t happen again. hopefully as I said those issues mentioned before don’t become too major of an issue when live flights begin from the pier

Scottie Dog 10th Mar 2019 20:09

That's a little more reassuring.

ZOOKER 10th Mar 2019 21:35

If the original design with the remote pier structure had been built, I wonder if the present works would be taking place? EGLL has ditched 'cul-de-sacs' in favour of a toast-rack' design at T5, and other airports have done the same. Yet EGCC are happy building more cul-de-sacs.

pholling 11th Mar 2019 10:40


Originally Posted by ZOOKER (Post 10412915)
If the original design with the remote pier structure had been built, I wonder if the present works would be taking place? EGLL has ditched 'cul-de-sacs' in favour of a toast-rack' design at T5, and other airports have done the same. Yet EGCC are happy building more cul-de-sacs.

It really all depends on what the intended use of the airport is, how your site is laid out and a number of other factors. There are plenty of airports that are still building piers, where the use case and land constraints are appropriate. The linear, "Toast-rack" concourse idea came about in the 1970s, primarily for airports where much of your traffic would not interface with the kerb, e.g. connecting traffic. For those airports with lots of kerb interface (O&D) circular and linear terminals were the rage. These fell out of fashion with the rise of security check-points. However, the toast-rack really only makes sense with lots of connecting traffic that doesn't need to flow through the main terminal, plus adequate and appropriate space to build it in. The quintessential toast-rack design is ATL, which now has 6 parallel concourses situated perpendicular to and between the parallel runway complexes; DEN is the same concept but scaled up a lot to take advantage of copious land. LHR is substantially the same runway layout (now) so this can make a lot of sense. Even though ATL stuck with the original concept for over 20 years it was the rise of O&D, especially O&D international traffic plus layout constraints that broke the plan. In 1996 ATL opened a new international concourse (E). However, all arriving passengers had to be rescreened and mixed with connecting passengers. When the Maynard Jackson Terminal and concourse F were build they couldn't keep the toast rack structure, and future expansions to the international terminal are likely to have widely spaced piers.

MAN's runway layout and apron space is completely different from that of ATL, DEN, LHR, etc. As such it isn't nearly as efficient to use the toast-rack configuration. Further, unless they were to complete reconfigure the whole land-side/air-side interface you couldn't efficiently create a terminal layout similar to that use in DTW. As such piers, with blind alleys (they are not true cul-de-sacs as they don't have the bulb at the end) can be the most efficient use of the space. The key is that you don't block the alley with a single aircraft pushing back. This requires more widely spaced alleys and multiple taxi-lanes. A good example of this kind of layout is PHL where the new construction, A-west, and concourse F are spaced far enough apart from A-east and Concourse E respectively to allow for dual taxi-lanes. MAN is somewhere in between a single and duel taxi-lane concept, where there are definitely dual lanes in some alleys for Code C aircraft, but single lanes for Code D+ aircraft. The original satellite pier concept for T2 had a very narrow pier in what is the grass strip. This would not have been wide enough to accommodate the necessary flows of passengers and to widen it would have created effective blind alleys for larger aircraft as the taxi-lanes in certain areas would have been limited to Code C. Of course this could have been solved by greatly expanding the ramp footprint, but the layout would have still be less efficient than widely space piers.

ZOOKER 11th Mar 2019 14:33

pholling,

Many thanks indeed for an interesting and informative reply.

MANFOD 11th Mar 2019 15:04

Pholling, Thanks for your comments. You are evidently very interested and knowledgeable on this subject. Have you any views on the issues mentioned by MANworker regarding Pier 1 of the TP? For the layman, how significant are they and which can be fairly readily corrected, or do MAN have to just work round what they now have?

Scottie Dog 12th Mar 2019 16:52

PlaneTalk Issue 81 - courtesy of the Manchester Airport Transformation Programme team


https://i.ibb.co/RBjQcWj/Screenshot-267.png

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https://i.ibb.co/dJGx3dP/Screenshot-271.png

https://i.ibb.co/sVhVVFW/Screenshot-272.png

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https://i.ibb.co/b3pznNx/Screenshot-277.png

https://i.ibb.co/XsLSGK0/Screenshot-278.png

https://i.ibb.co/SJkmYZG/Screenshot-279.png

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https://i.ibb.co/6bNsTz1/Screenshot-283.png

True Blue 16th Mar 2019 16:30

Arrived in Manchester airport on Wednesday afternoon, T3. What I did notice on the walk from T3 to the train station was the number of buckets sitting to catch water leaking through the roof. Most of the moving walkway was out of service, why? Essential maintenance said the signs, but not one maintenance worker to be seen.

I departed again Thursday afternoon. Got to security, not that many in front of me. Guy at the front of security coming down the line, frequently, telling us to make sure we had all out of our bags as they were getting a lot of rejections and it would take at least 40 minutes for it to be checked at the other side of security. 40 minutes, this in the middle of March. What would that not be like at the height of the season? They were wanting everything out, including hair straighteners etc? First time I have heard that requirement. It took a long time to even get to the scanners as passengers were taking so long to get everything out that was needed, plus there was a shortage of trays as so many were waiting to be checked.

Into the waiting area/terminal, what a depressing place. Few seats, most coffee shops/bars etc busy as people just go in there and sit. Is there no quality places in there to eat at all?

Gate called, gate 142 in think. Anyway, we had to go through scanners to check our photographs. I think there were 2 scanners, then one for manual checking. So they call 4 flights at once, several hundred pax trying to get through very few scanners. System not working for many of them, although for many, it was their own fault as they were not even looking up. Maybe they didn't know what to do, although some can never learn. Then we had quite a number seem to have gone through the scanners to then realise they were at the wrong gates. They were trying to get back out, but no, you just can't walk back out. More chaos as they were trying to get out against those trying to come in but needed manual checking. The people who design these systems and procedures seem to lack all common sense, but a lot of this is driven by cost cutting, airports don't want to pay for enough/any staff to make things run smoothly. They should be given their P45's for sheer stupidy.

To summarise my experience, too many items not working like lifts/walkways. That has to be down to no maintenance, there were too many for it to be coincidence. Manchester Airport is a collection of buildings just thrown together, moving from T3 to the train station we were in/out, up and down, just a nonsense. Security is a joke and not fit for purpose. Boarding experience, just awful.

Manchester Airport is a complete disgrace, I will only use it if I have to, but it will be a last resort.

chaps1954 16th Mar 2019 17:18

There is no such thing as a quiet period in T3 now as it is busy all the time. It really is too small and not what it was designed for, Ryanair with large loads
simply overload with loads that are more than twice the size it was built for i:e BA european and domestic where you were not expecting anything more than
about 80 pax or so. There will be a few changes with the like of Brussels Airlines moving out at end of April and maybe KLM/AF in the future to tie in with Virgin

The96er 16th Mar 2019 18:01


Originally Posted by chaps1954 (Post 10420706)
There is no such thing as a quiet period in T3 now as it is busy all the time. It really is too small and not what it was designed for, Ryanair with large loads
simply overload with loads that are more than twice the size it was built for i:e BA european and domestic where you were not expecting anything more than
about 80 pax or so. There will be a few changes with the like of Brussels Airlines moving out at end of April and maybe KLM/AF in the future to tie in with Virgin

Brussels Airlines moved out several years ago, and AF/KL are unlikely to move out anytime soon due to the tied AF/BE CDG operation. Vueling on the other hand really do not need to be in there.

ManchesterUK 17th Mar 2019 12:10

Hello - does anyone know when the multi story carpark will be out of use as they begin taking it down? I usually spend a little time there when I drop friends and family off at the airport, so would be great to know how long is left for it. Many thanks in advance.

Scottie Dog 17th Mar 2019 15:45

Erm silly question time, but which car park are you talking about?

ManchesterUK 17th Mar 2019 15:58

It's the Terminal 1 Multi Storey, which looks directly onto the T2 apron (apologies - should have been more specific earlier).

pholling 18th Mar 2019 09:47


Originally Posted by ManchesterUK (Post 10421561)
It's the Terminal 1 Multi Storey, which looks directly onto the T2 apron (apologies - should have been more specific earlier).


I don't think the date for the demolition of T1 has been definitively determined. It will be some time after the completion of the T2 remodel as until that happens there is not enough landslide capacity to replace T1. So you have another 3-4 years at least.

ManchesterUK 18th Mar 2019 12:42

Thanks Pholling. Appreciate it.


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