I don’t oppose the airport, never have done. Not a nimby either. What you don’t like are the plain facts of my post because it isn’t your view which is fair enough. It would be better for you to pull apart my argument with counter points and debate rather than make pointless posts because you haven’t the ability to challenge what I say.

I see Luton’s council tax is increasing by the maximum 4% allowed due to a shortfall caused by airport income now being diverted to pay interest payments on airport debts associated with expansion. I am sure you won’t mind paying the extra. If anyone thinks I am wrong then challenge me and I will link you to the council finance report that spells it out. This is the report the council hoped residents would not read but they were predicting trouble a year or two ago.

The dual carriageway for T2 is being funded by the council directly where they admit they cannot afford it and that project will have to be funded by council cutbacks. This is why this road still hasn’t been approved by councillors despite it getting planning permission a year ago to serve a business park where they forgot to mention that it would also need to serve the new terminal to make it viable.

hatters_united....rather than just resort to personal insults open your eyes and take a good look at the financial mess that LBC have now managed to create in the name of speculative airport expansion. This isn't about Nimbyism....As a local tax payer and airport worker I want to see the airport thrive and remain a local asset. However, LBC are now simply well out of their depth trying to grapple with the finances which as they stand mean that local services will get cut and council tax bills will rise with no guarantees of any long term returns...

Wasn't a personal insult at all, just stating a fact that all LTNMAN does now is whinge about the expansion because it is now going to effect him.
Before you claim I don't know what airport noise and intrusion is like, I live just under the flight path about five miles out and work in aviation so know all about it myself.

LTNman,
I appreciate your point of view, and as a Luton resident I can understand your reticence about further expansion, particularly as LBC seem to have made such a mess of the finances. However, the point I made was that the passenger cap per se has no effect on the local community. It makes no attempt to curtail freight flights, night flights, executive jet movements, and as such is intellectually bankrupt.
As for El Al, I'm sure they would rather keep all their North London operations together - as a smallish airline they are now serving three London airports - not really sustainable. I also suspect that the reason they moved from Stansted to Luton was the latter's proximity to the large North London Jewish population cluster.
I'm afraid I don't agree that your example of a housing developer is comparable. What would make that comparable would be the planners deciding that only 2000 people could live in the 1000 houses!

Feel free to contradict/comment - I know you have a fair and reasonable view of all matters LTN.

... as I said:

As someone else who has lived in the town until very recently and owe a lot to having an airport walking distance from my home, I can understand both points of view. I also use the airport 25-30 times a year.

The question - why have a cap. What is the aim here? An arbitrary cap for the sake of planning? To reduce ATMs? To make the airport a more tolerable experience for the traveller? To reduce pollution and increase QOL for the local community?

The arguments for sure have merit... although for me it is a bit pointless having an arbitrary cap - it doesn’t exactly reduce ATMs unless larger types are used. It also doesn’t allow for free market competition and increase opportunities for the local people it serves. The drop off zone improvements have helped immeasurably in comparison to the previous offerings albeit it is a mile to walk. The DART will be a worthwhile investment... eventually. What is wrong with the “ski jump” considering people were accusing the airport of constantly cheaping out?

I think what would help is a reduction or elimination of the drop off charge for local residents who have very little feasible public transport option. That would get people on side.

People also tend to forget that council tax rises are a result of central government policy. The airport keeps taxes lower than what it could have otherwise been. In Central Beds it is significantly higher for a worse service.

As to those voted into LBC - it is unfair for those on the council to have such a broad knowledge of policy brief... I certainly wouldn’t have a clue about social care! It is unfair to say those in St Albans are more knowledgeable. That said, having seen planning meetings in the past, it wouldn’t be unfair to say that some of them do not have the knowledge needed for the job.

When local public services are being cut, as a direct result of the debt that LBC is carrying, clearly something very serious is wrong.

The only end that I can see, is the town having to sell THEIR airport to service the huge debts.

The airport was always seen by the Council as proud achievement and profits redirected into the community, now this very community is subsidising unprecedented debt levels being accrued, on speculation that a new franchisee will assume this debt in 2032!

I too was a resident for over 25 years and had benefited from one of the lowest shire rates (council tax) around.
The latest publish accounts for LBC I can find is for y/e 18/19. Looking at the Debt relating to Airport Debenture to LALL, interest charged then Share Dividend & rents going the other way I cannot see a great issue, they are servicing the Debt, but maybe I am seeing outdated information? I am no accountant either.
The Debenture seems to be mostly covered by the Special Infrastructure Rate Loan Scheme operated by Central Government at very favorable rates but had to be started before 2022 to qualify hence the hast to get the DART up and running before .........T2.

It is all about planning condition 10 and remaining compliant.
The current winter cap is a limit on ATM’s. This is to limit passengers while the summer cap is just a straight limit on passenger seats that can’t be got around by putting on larger aircraft. This have been introduced by the airport operator to comply with the airports planning permission.

The airport operator is not happy, LLAL is not happy and nor is the council but this is only a temporary measure while a planning application is going through that could have been submitted anytime rather than after the horse had bolted. I think people still have time to object before it goes to committee and gets approved.

The link lays out the emergency rules for summer 2020 where it states each airline will get an allocation of seats. This rule has resulted in EL AL moving its extra summer service to Stansted and maybe Wizz starting a Southend service and blocked any new airline operating a new route into LTN this year although to be honest new airlines have not exactly been flocking to Luton in recent years. It should also prevent one off charter flights like for football matches.

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/up...-03OCT2019.pdf

Construction update
 

The remaining floors of the new multi-story have opened for half term. Those with even short memories will remember the gravel short term car park complete with pot holes and lakes. The 2 multi-storey car parks together with the indoor drop off area are transformational. The new car park sits higher than the existing car park due to the height of the ceilings in the drop off area.
https://i.imgur.com/vUG9hin.jpg

I have been looking at the original time-scales for the Dart compared with current progress and it doesn't look good. The protect was started 6 months late but even adding 6 months to the following dates there will be some doubts about the Dart opening in 2021. The complete programme from enabling work until the first train is meant to be 245 weeks (just over 4.5 years) with many projects running simultaneously.

Parkway station protect was set at 60 weeks with a completion date of June 2019. In the foreground, as pointed out by a poster, the footbridge supports are being worked on. In the background the Gateway bridge is part covered in protective covers. This is a 53 week protect and was meant to be complete in May 2019
https://i.imgur.com/WxfZmxw.jpg

The new footbridge will be located opposite the hotel
https://i.imgur.com/Jro6mtB.jpg

Central station is down as a 59 week project which seems impossible and is meant to have been completed September 2019
https://i.imgur.com/eWOgRzh.jpg

This section of tunnel has a completion date of July 2019 and is meant to be a 32 week project.
https://i.imgur.com/lsypkoz.jpg

Installation of the DART equipment and trains was meant to have started in October 2019 as part of a 73 week programme including 25 weeks of testing that is meant to start September 2020 for an opening date in April 2021. It's not going to happen and even allowing for the delayed start I can't see this opening in 2021

Luton trains under construction
https://i.imgur.com/j9XjsNZ.jpg

EMR launch consultation on Dec 2020 timetable changes to bring in non stop Express service from St Pancras and direct services from Corby to Airport Parkway. With this comes a reduction of service to other stations to London & Luton Central, let the battles commence.

The consultation is phoney as the Department of Transport made it a condition of the new franchise that 2 trains an hour to Corby would run with the first stop being LAP.
The council wanted 4 trains an hour so is putting on a brave face but 2 is better than 1. What has been established is that the non stop service will run from 6am to 10pm. The stock used will be 4 carriage 20 year old second hand trains that will be joined up to form up to 12 cars but there won't be the ability for passengers to walk from one end of the train to the other to find a seat as the drivers cabs will prevent this. On the positive side the 3+2 existing seating will be replaced with 2+2 seating with each seat getting a table.

I would assume this old stock will be replaced with walk through trains eventually but old trains linger on for years.

From the DoT.

East Midlands franchise then select London Corby

Quote:

---

London - Corby

---

easyJet to launch Luton - Ljubljana 30/3/20. Flights on sale now. Operates M,W,Fr and Su.

Did they not operate this route before, or am I thinking of the STN route?

Not sure - but Adria did.

So did Wizzair!

Heard today that Wizzair timmimg capacity to Tel Aviv due to reduced demand, don't know if this is temporary, while I was searching for an article confirming there was a comment on whether the STN El Al was going to be necessary at all this summer. Things very unwell at El Al at the moment.

I witnessed a strange event a couple of weeks ago concerning an Orthodox Jew at Luton. I went into the gents to have a pee and found a roughly 10 year old girl standing between the two rows of urinals while I assume her dad was in a trap having what sounded like a major kosher dump.

Feeling uncomfortable, as did others, I used the furthest urinal and turned around to find the girl was now using the urinal behind me as an armchair and was resting her hands and arms on the side of the porcelain. She was the perfect fit and it looked like she was sitting in a futuristic seating pod. I guess she had a wet arse when she stood up though.

Too much information for breakfast time on a Monday✈️✈️

Israeli airlines are generally cutting quite a bit due lack of demand by the virus.

Greggs
 

Greggs are currently recruiting managers for an airside store, I thought all the units were occupied, anyone have any idea where it will go?

Greggs were sniffing around the airport when the airport was looking for tenants for its new build as I saw a delegation up there. Haven't been terminal airside for a while but I know Dubl the champaign bar has been closed for around a year. The problem being it is in an island location so no hidden corners for the ovens. Did the last outlet opposite Chanel get occupied? With the perfume shop again on an island the retail outlet was only going to get half the passengers pass it.

So as being said before, I work airside. There we talks of Oriel taking over the DUBL bar which is stagnant and is mostly used by passengers as seating at the moment. Greggs will be opening where cube is (the luggage shop) and is said to open next month but work hasn’t started. I have spoken to a number of staff members too and the amount of complaints which are made about the old departure space being out dated and cramped is incredible. The terminal is a mish mash. I do wish to see the airport improved further inside but we all know this is Luton Airport we are talking about.

I don’t know if this has been mentioned also, but I was reading master plan about T2 and they mention jetways will not be added unless airlines require. So are they expecting to keep their main low cost carriers or will we see new airlines venture out further. Demand could be there but only time will tell. As mentioned before, newer aircraft are capable of using Luton’s 7000ft runway.

Don't expect a T2 to look remotely like the grand artist impressions. It will be more of the same with the same low grade finishes the airport is well known for.

With Heathrow being rejected due to the Governments commitments to the Paris Accord why would the doubling of Luton be accepted?

As stated before the council have got itself into a real mess. They thought they were being clever by putting in a planning application to themselves for a business park when the whole world and its dog knows the £124 million road is the enabler for a second terminal. With it not being included in the DCO the council has found out that the council has to fund it and not LLAL which as we all know is the council. This means interest payments on money borrowed comes out of the council budget. If the airport expansion is refused the plan B for a business park can't be justified due to the cost of the road.

The council has now put out the begging bowl to Government and the tax payer in the hope that the next budget can provide funds. If they say no, together with the Paris Accord the councils plans might well die.

With the reduction in flights to Italy, and the drop in bookings more widely, there looks to be no chance of the 18m passenger cap being breached in 2020. Does anyone know when the planning application to lift the cap is being heard?
I suspect we will see more normal growth in S21. It helps that all of the remaining operators are financially sound and will withstand the likely forthcoming short recession.

Two LLAOL applications that need watching. The increase from 18 to 19 million passengers and the separate application to increase the airports nighttime noise limit as LLAOL don’t want to comply with existing limits. Even when passed, the banning of summer nighttime biz jets will remain as a council compromise so they can claim they are listening to concerns.

Personal view but I don’t think Luton will be affected as badly as other airports due to the virus as Eastern European’s will want to continue to travel for work and for family reasons. Walking around the airport English is definitely a minority language but it has been for a long time but there seems to be less English travellers over the last couple of weeks.

I can walk from the drop off area to the far end of the terminal which is a 5 minute walk and I won’t hear anyone speaking English apart from staff members and many of them are not speaking English either.

That is fantastic news LTNman.
London Luton Airport is now officially an airport that attracts predominantly people from all over the World and not just locals which means it has an important place in the UK's future transport infastructer and can deliver important employment opportunities for all.

i wouldn’t say all over the world as the vast majority live in the U.K. They just don’t have English as their first language.

The employment opportunities will be there but the pay will not be great and workers will be on 24/7 contracts or worse still zero hour contracts which most people dislike.

LTNman, why do you keep harping on about people whose first language is not English ? It’s an airport, the idea is that people pass through it from all different countries and yes other countries speak different languages. Why is this such an issue for you ?

The point I was making in an earlier post is that I didn’t think Luton will be affected as badly as other airports as many travellers are Eastern European’s visiting friends and family or travelling to and from work. I don’t think this sort of traffic would be as badly affected as UK based leisure and business travel where I am seeing a decrease in passengers speaking English. Saying that I can see a time when all travel will be restricted by government.

The point about English being a second language was that those passengers still mainly originate from the UK at Luton so I would not describe them as world travellers unlike airports like Heathrow and Gatwick where language and accent does indicate world travellers.

So the languages spoken at airports are generally reflective of the destinations flown to and in Lutons case that will be British and Europeans flying between Britain and Europe. Seems too obvious to be so regularly made a point of!?

I know of Britons, Southern Europeans and Eastern Europeans who are limiting their travel at the moment. I know others who are carrying on regardless for now. I'm told that media in Poland, for example, are being equally as panicked as the likes of the Daily Mail and people are reacting to that. So I'm not sure why Eastern Europeans need to be called out again as being somehow different in their approach.

Happy to accept I am wrong and that all passengers will reduce in equal numbers. Seems then that Luton is heading for a major impact as well. Does this mean the airport will accept charter flights again if Luton cannot maintain 18 million passengers?

I dare say their English is better than our Polish...

You've misunderstood his point.

The reality is there is very little English spoken within the Airport.....fact !!!!

Plenty of Dutch, Spanish, Italian, Israeli passengers fly through Luton. I don’t understand why it’s always Eastern European passengers that are always singled out by certain people in this forum.

Agreed. I think it is uncalled for. It's an airport for goodness sake, what do you expect?

There are many people from different parts from all over the world that travel through regularly. I’ve had many Brazilians, Americans and Australians pass through, not everyday but the majority.

The virus is certainly affecting flights. Where we usually have around 1-2000 at around 4/5, we’ve not seen that many figures pass through. Talking to staff, many shops including mine are struggling to meet £1000 and targets set by companies being much higher. There is many concern for stores in the airport atm.

Perhaps it could be because the largest, or second-largest operator at Luton is the largest low-cost operator in Central and Eastern Europe.

Exactly, passengers from Eastern Europe make up around 50% of Luton’s passengers so it is not about them being singled out it is recognition of how important they are. They are an integral part of Luton’s success and without them Luton would be a vastly different place particularly in the winter months. There would be no Dart being built, no multi story car parks, no terminal extension, no new aprons and no plans to expand the airport so don’t dismiss them. There of course would be no Wizz at Luton either who I think are now Luton’s largest airline in terms of passengers carried.