A 50 seater at Heathrow is extremely difficult to operate profitably on a consistent basis. Flybe were forced out of Gatwick for operating 78 seaters.

The niche I can think of where this might work on a scheduled non-charter basis is a business-class-only B737 flying 5+ hours. There are perhaps other profitable niches for an aircraft with just 50 seats, but they are very much highly specialised niches.

Used it a few times when connecting to UA through LHR and there was never more than 25-30 people on them. And all of the flights I took were mid week flights so I would have expected them to be full particularly on the first departures southbound but they weren't.

That was a very small sample granted, but if there was a way to profitably fly the jets to MME then BD would have continued to serve the route longer. If they decided they can make money elsewhere then fair play to them that is their call.

Just out of interest, where did BD use the slots to instead?

Newmarket Holidays
 

Looks like the new routes talked about are from Newmarket Holidays - they have tweeted that they are announcing new routes for Summer 2015 from Durham Tees Valley, on the 18th June. Interesting.

New rout easy
 

Great to hear! I was under the impression it was sooner..but if we are still going in 2015 then great!!!

So sad to see all these mod charters through Newcastle! They were ours!!! See some jumbie next few days....peel wake up!!:ugh:

MoD Charters
 

Are you sure they were ours? Newcastle have always had the odd MoD flight(s) as well. At risk of saying too much, I believe we are going to start accepting them again soon anyway.

https://bdaily.co.uk/industrials/12-...alley-airport/

So Jersey BE ok (Q400), Newmarket ok (B737, A320?), MOD ok(?) (various widebodies?) ok but Thomson (B737) not, Balkan Holidays (A320) not?

Sure there's some logic at work here, but can somebody explain (and if it has already been explained on this thread, can they point me to the post?)

The Newmarket flights are usually one offs, so maybe 3 or 4 throughout the season which presumably they can staff up for, while the TOM and BGH flights were regular mulitple flights per week, which must give them more of an issue?

Well its a small -very small start.
But a tiny ray of hope.
Perhaps they could hope to get a links air type operation.
And maybe a flybe expansion
Though to what destination I dont know.
I wonder would Stansted be the route to restore the lost link to London so many on here bemoan. The loss of a london link.
And Flybe do they Operate from Southend?. If so Would that be a better London link.?.
And is it LCY that Flybe arecstarting from.
Might there be a slot free for MME to LCY?.
After all a Dash 8 isnt that big.
And what other routes realistically and sticking to smaller Aircraft etc might be Viable?.
Did Southanpton work before. Taking folk to the Cruise liners.
An op Suggested IOM. Perhaps van air could do that and Belfast city.
And Stobart Air to Dubkin.
Maybe a seasonal to Guernsey by Aurigny.
And if we got lucky.
A fly be E170 to Paris Year round. From Flybe.
Mainly all business connections.
Perhaps innsbruck in Winter for the Skiing.
And Geneva.
Howabout A connection to Germany or Copengagen ( Though the Latter didnt do well at HUY. But they like teeside have Ams.
Finally Eastern airways.
What could they offer that could work? .
Norwich?.
Stavanger.
And Glasgow or is that too close.
Or Newquay in summer on a limited schedule.
Thoughts folks ?

One other thing this rule about Thompson et all Does it Include Easyjet?. Or Ryanair?
Id bet Ryanair if they coukd wiork out routes thst would pay shoukd try get a deal where its either free landing fees or peel or local government stump up a subsidy to get the airport running again.
Teeside and back across to the dales toward Aysgarth etc have a fair eadtern eutopesn population.
I hadnt realised that albiet spread out they do have a decent catchment area.
Ryanair coukd operate withiout a single bucket and spade route but bring a few routes in to compete with Wizz at Dsa.
And Easyjet. Again they even fly To Iceland now.
I bet if they diid a few badic business and weekend city breaks and skiing destinations.
It might work.
Anyway excuse my rambling on.
But im interested in its future but notice anytime a route is suggested on this forum its immediately shot down in flames usually with rudeness open hiostility as though suggesting them is a cardinal sin .
No matter what route. And yet redpectfully keep in mind sooner or later like DSA it will.improve again
There are only so many airlines and posdible routes in the UK so those listed above on smaller aircraft ( easyjet and ryanair aside). Ought to be possible.
And nit just DTV but HUY and DSA.
And to those supporters and the abusuve naysayers who enjoy shooting down ideas and speaking to people on hete in a manner they woukd never use fave to face.
The new small charters thst the airport has one.
Maybe thst little acorn from which something new will grow.
Maybe even the buds of the first green shoots of recovery.
I wish all the DTV supporters and management anf friends of DTV all the best.
If anyone from this thread is part of such groups please pm me.

Thank you for reading my usyal epic post guys

Ideas from the other side..
 

Oh for a PC with a spell check!

Onyx....Your ideas are admirable..but please please don't volunteer to write the promotion brochures!!:)

MAY pax stats.

Amsterdam.......8111 + 1%
Aberdeen.........3153 + 2%

Monthly pax - 12.1%

Rolling year - 8.2%

Onyxcrowle
 

A rather fanciful range of suggestions but let's gets back to reality. It's a very small start and it is important nobody gets carried away.

There's no way eJ will detract from their NCL base where people are already travelling from Teesside area. Opening a base, or operating W patterns will not stimulate new passengers. It will pick up the same passengers with a vastly increased cost base due to a new base or operating W patterns. Plus the NCL base isn't the strongest and I should imagine they need to protect that. I very much doubt people in Teesside simply avoid going on holiday as there is no flight from their local airport and most would travel to NCL or LBA. Those who would rather not travel will be a tiny minority. LCCs do not have a great track record at MME and that was before management told 737/A32S operators where to go.

Southampton did not work on a 29 seater. That says all you need to know.

Again this London link keeps popping up - it cannot compete with very frequent trains. Yes some will want to work around STN, LTN or SEN but a majority are going to the city centre. If people are connecting to another flight then this is covered by AMS and there is no need for a London hub.

FlyBE don't have a CDG base so if they were to operate flights to MME would involve operating W patterns through CDG from another base which results in increased costs or they will need to open up a base. Given that they just shut NCL a few months back I very much doubt this would happen.

Eastern Europe routes are pretty low yielding. If FR were to operate an MME route it would be a non based aircraft and as soon as the new route subsidy finished FR would pull out and MME would make even bigger losses as they've paid to support the route for some time with no income. I'm not stereotyping but speaking for experience and Eastern Europe destined pax do no spend in the terminal and they do not spend onboard.

I don't think anybody is being rude or shooting you down but your suggestions do make you out to be someone with very little understanding of the business.

Fair enough but given there are only so many airlines operating in the UK or into it.
And whittle that down to those who operate from smaller airports like MME surley at some point one of them will open a route.
Otherwise the place will shut.
So if all my questions are based on my lack of knowledge perhaps with respect you could list a few routes that are likely and would work.
There must be a point where airports n airlines read forums like this trying to gauge public opinion or needs.
If they are reading this thread which is probably the most negative thread on the whole board.
Theyd probanly not bother offering any routes given all the negativity.
London used to be a route that still pulled in passangers hence it operated for donkeys years.
Not everybody wants to go by train.
And have you considered that Stanstead fir example has plenty of destinations which would be handy for holiday makers who could fly direct to Stanstead and onto their next onward flight.
To my knowledge I dont know of a direct train between Teeside / Darlington and Stanstead or Southend or Lcy.
These days travellers like as less hassle as possible.
So what better than a feeder service to a big airport with a huve selection of onward destinations.
Without two or three train changes and dragging luggage around from train to airport !

onyxcrowle Airlines do not start routes because of reading something in a forum,assuming they look at forums like Pprune.On this thread you probably have no more than 20 regular contributors, not a large number for considering flying a new route.Airlines are set up hopefully to make profits if they don,t they go out of business rather quickly.They will be looking at statistics in regard to size of catchment area,how many airports nearby.Historical passenger figures.They look at the surrounding area social grade and its six groups A, B, C1, C2, D and E.Unemployment rates.average earnings and lots of other data. Also how much will the airport discount their landing fees,use of airport infrastructure etc. If the figures add up then they might consider using the airport.The major problem for DTV is that Peel do not appear to be airline friendly.

Perhaps your next paragraph is the reason.

Looking at May's provisional stats, the following caught my attention:
- Over the last 12 months, there were more passengers at Kirkwall in the Orkney Islands than at DTV. Sumburgh in Shetland saw considerably more passengers than DTV over the last 12 months
- Over the last 12 months, DTV captured 3.26% of the air travel market to/from NE England. Put another way, for every passenger at DTV, there were over 29 passengers at Newcastle
- Over 2 out of every 3 passengers at DTV are flying to/from Amsterdam with KLM
- In May, the Isles of Scilly saw almost as many passengers as DTV
- There were considerably more pax at DTV in 1972 than in the last 12 months. Edward Heath was PM until 1974. The Vietnam war finished in 1975.

But you still with respect haven't answered my question.
Ok im not educated about thecairline industry.
And how airlines work.
But all my life ive been fascinated with flight.
I wantrd to be a pilot. But eyesight and maths plus serious health problems let ne down.
But I.am passionate about seeing small airports like Dtv dsa huy prosper.
Not only as they can offer services I wouldvwant to use but they if doing well are a huge benefit to local economic well being. They also provide jobs outwith of the airport for suppliers cleaners n so in.
But my initial question and probably that of others still stands.
Abd ive observed this for a while responses not jyst to my posts but thosecof others who suggest rioutes forvDtv dsa Huy n I note Newquay.
And it seems EVERY route suggestion is shot down ridiculed albiet probably not meant but comes acrisd that way.
Then we get told almost like people with non real valid opinions that whatever route is suggested cannot work wont ever work never did.
Or whatever.
Eg London
Paris
Perhaps innsbruck for skiing .
Or Frankfurt.
Or Even Eastern european destinations.
Dublin was suggested and Belfast again wevare told no they wont ever hapoen or work.
So please would you be so kind as to answer the original question idealky in a list so my clearly sime mind can understand ( as I felt therevwas an implication that I was somewhat less intelligent).
Which apart from my dreadful autocirrect which corrects and changes words as I hit post (thiscus a fault on my phone).
So a list of Routes that you as an obvious expert would reasonably be confindent thatbwoukd bevsble to run from the afore mentioned airports.
What airlines would in your proffesional expert opinion would likely operate them.
And what kind of Aircraft.
That way myself and fellow supporters cease to make fools of ourselves by posting routes we woukd like to see but obviously every one everv suggested coukd never work.
So please if you will can you write that list and why you think they would work.
Thank you.
I.mean no disrespect or sarcasm by this post butvas you clearly knowvso much about it I andvim sure others would appreciate your response.
Thank you.
I wait with baited breath :).

New Routes
 

The simplest and best response I can give you Oxy is that if a new route would work somewhere, the chances are someone would be running it.

There are many routes, like the ones you suggest, that would take many passengers. A hub flight to London would carry passengers; as would Paris or Frankfurt - so I don't doubt your theory. The problem is I doubt any of the routes could be flown profitably; i.e. either not enough passengers or not enough paying a decent rate to make money for the airline. And there in lies the problem.

You have to come up with a route that could generate enough cash to ensure the flight is profitable...or actually more profitable than if the airline used it elsewhere.

The closest thing in my opinion that would work is a series of bucket & spade routes, but as airlines have consolidated to the bigger airports and as costs have increased, this has become less attractive to the airlines. If I was to be really blue sky - for it to work today I think you would need an airline with an intergrated travel company, that is local and focussed on the area (like Bath Travel and BOH) that has a small, efficient 100 seater plane that could fly to a handful of popular European hotspot holiday destinations. That is the best I can come up with I'm afraid and even this suggestion would be frought with risks and wouldn't be a guaranteed sucess.

re new routes
 

Well clearly Thomson did think that some routes worked, but the airport disagreed. Catch 22 - end of discussion.

Oh, and when the LHR route was at its prime, the train from Darlo took about 4 hours, and there was about six per day if you were lucky. It's now just over 2 hours and runs every half hour most of the day. Teesside itself now gets direct services to Kings Cross with Grand Central in less than 3 hours, 4 times per day, picking up in Hartlepool, Stockton and Northallerton. BTW, parking at Northallerton is dead cheap and next to the platform.

Thank you fior the reply. So perhaps the way to test the water is to see if the likes of links air coukd serve either Stanstead , Lcy and Paris (Or perhaps all three with clever planning).
using the same setup as at DSA.
And if they can't almost fill a 19 seater to London or Paris (or Belfast as was implied somewhere else online), Then sadly DTV maybe doomed.
Unless the liocal Community got together and aorport bosses and libbied givernment for a pso operator , ala Dundee into London (Stanstead), just because its not Heathrow so slits wont be an issue, And it has enough onward connections and links to the Captial if really needed.
Out of interest how easy is train trasfer from Stanstead to LHR foe example

A J31 to Paris? It'd take a week ...

Onyxcrowle

Crossing London from anywhere to anywhere is a bit of a nightmare, especially with luggage.

Onyx,

You clearly didn't read and/or take note of this previous post:

" libbied givernment for a pso operator , ala Dundee into London (Stanstead), just because its not Heathrow so slits wont be an issue, And it has enough onward connections and links to the Captial if really needed."


Err, Dundee-London circa 480 miles vs Teesside-London circa 240 miles. Dundee-London only 3 direct trains per day, taking circa 6 hours - its hardly a model comparison to base a PSO bid on.

"Out of interest how easy is train trasfer from Stanstead to LHR foe exampl"

Public transport currently a min of 3 changes, or direct coach. Transport Direct shows both taking just under 2 hours, plus waiting time at STN, plus check-in time at LHR. Compare that with travel time up the road to NCL for a direct LHR connection. Or add in check-in, security etc at MME, then compare with a train every half hour to Kings X - Transport Direct has Darlo to LHR at typically under 3 and a half hours, and that will be quicker once Crossrail is open.

Onyx, it took me less than 5 minutes to gather all the above info from public websites. You don't have to be an aviation expert to do a little research yourself before launching a stream of non-credible suggestions.

The routes that I can see working long term are ABZ and AMS. They have stood the test of time and must be protected. Invite certain fly by night carriers in and they could risk these two routes which provide long term revenue whereas you pay a certain 189 seater operator, they p-ss off the other other airlines who leave, then said 189 seater leaves too once you stop paying them to fly there and you're left with nothing.

The occasional charter is the only thing that I see working long term without damaging realtionships with T3/KL. They may not be much but they're MMEs Crown Jewels (well, as an airport anyway).

Aircraft are very valuable assets and they must be placed where they not just make money, but make the most amount of money possible. Look at EZY shutting MAD or EMA, or downsizing one base to grow another. Look a the bases FR open then close or downsize. Any idiot can fill a plane but making money from it is a different game.

Oxy - I don't think you're listening to the feedback and reading the historic posts.

Even with a smaller plane flying to the destinations you suggest, you will have major issues to overcome. Using "Links" to these destinations would probably prevent connections unless some code-share was agreed - this would reduce the passenger potential to P2P. Furthermore, you would probably take passengers off the KLM route which would put AMS at risk.

Stansted is a problem. You're not going to get much connecting traffic because the locos generally don't offer connecting tickets. People going to London (central) aren't going to fly to Stansted. So, again - the opportunity is limited.

Every suggestion you're coming up with is riddled with problems that would prevent the route being financially viable. My "blue sky" suggestion with a Flybe type aircraft is the only thing I could see working in a bucket/spade destination set-up - and even then with the right back ground infrastructure - e.g. back-up agent etc. And even if I am right...I just can't see this happening.

Better to face the reality in my opinion...

So does anyone know the outcome of the Newmarket Holidays "new route launch" yesterday? I guess it will be more short "one off" trips in 2015 like those seen in the past few years, but considering the launch was at 1530 and 1830 yesterday, I'm surprised the airport haven't issued a press alert since?

-HD-

Quick piece in tonights Gazette:

Durham Tees Valley Airport passenger figures soar leading to Newmarket Holidays increasing programme - Gazette Live

DC3
 

For anyone interested, today is the day of the KLM DC3 visit. 3 flights operating 30 minute scenic tours over Teesside, carrying around 12 people per flight. A good show being put on by the airport by all accounts too.

Scenic tour over Teesside? Is there such a thing? := Presumably they''' be going over parts of Yorkshire?

Routed over the suburbs (Marton, Nunthorpe, Guisborough), then over to the Coast. Up the coast by Saltburn, Redcar and Hartlepool - then returning.

Are you quite sure that it is a KLM DC3 and not a KLM DC2?

DC3
 

Yes, it was the DC3 Dakota run by a voluntary group in conjunction with KLM. Aircraft is around 70 years old and has military, royal and passenger service backgrounds - including some D Day heroics in WW2.

Do a good search of PH-PBA to see the specific aircraft.

OK :)

Actually, like most, it's a C-47 rather than a DC-3 but it isn't the DC-2 that I was thinking of.

Nearly right, but I know you're a stickler for absolute accuracy..

It's actually now designated as being a DC-3C-S1C3G and appears on the Dutch civil register as such. It did indeed start life as a C47A and quite how it morphed into a DC-3 I don't know.

The history of the plane is on the NCL website press release page.

DC-3C was the designation given to civilianized C-47's

Fly be
 

I see flybe are starting a city bus stop route between Jersey and Aberdeen.wonder if this is what peel had n mind as a new route/announcement this month?
Doubt they would want to upset eastern...one of only two operators they have.

I think that's shows the problem dtv has...there really are no routes out there of use now?

LCc bucket and spade but peel have laid there cards on the table ,haven't they?

Any news on master plan dates etc?

Meeting largely irrelevant.
Seems all have jumped to Peel's tune. Unsure why, if capitulation was so easy that the council bothered in first place. Just reflects the lack of power & influence the Parish Council appear to have...............
The masterplan seems a case of "we are going ahead with plans to build 400 houses & tough! if you don't approve" :E

Newmarket holiday routes for 2015 are as follows:

May 30—Naples
June 7—Verona
September 6—Verona
October 3—Venice Cruise
October 6—Madeira

Link