BA staff walkout @ LHR
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BA is still the same animal it was when it was a state owned airline. Management incompetents and "shop floor" militants, both groups assuming without guilt that the taxpayer would pick up the tab.
The taxpayer got lucky when this shambles was pushed off the gravy train into the real world.
Only the rest of the public services sector to go and we might have a country worth living in (and paying taxes in).
The taxpayer got lucky when this shambles was pushed off the gravy train into the real world.
Only the rest of the public services sector to go and we might have a country worth living in (and paying taxes in).
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Thanks for that Anthony.
Please explain how privatisation has improved Water, Railways and Nuclear Power.
When I moved into my new house I discovered that only one company could provide me with water. So much for competitive pressures!
Dividing the old 'British Rail' into train operators and Railtrack caused fundamental reductions in safety resulting in deaths of customers.
Nuclear Power now known as British Energy is so bankrupt it should be liquidated but WOW, you can't turn off Nuclear Fission reactors.
The Conservatives were immoral when they sold off the Water, Railways and Nuclear Power.
Please explain how privatisation has improved Water, Railways and Nuclear Power.
When I moved into my new house I discovered that only one company could provide me with water. So much for competitive pressures!
Dividing the old 'British Rail' into train operators and Railtrack caused fundamental reductions in safety resulting in deaths of customers.
Nuclear Power now known as British Energy is so bankrupt it should be liquidated but WOW, you can't turn off Nuclear Fission reactors.
The Conservatives were immoral when they sold off the Water, Railways and Nuclear Power.
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Land ASAP
I agree that the situation in some industries is not ideal at present. This is to be expected after such an enforced revolution in the way that they operate.
However, as Darwin would have it, evolution takes time. Be patient. Let nature take it's course. In the long run privatised industries, by virtue of competition, will tend to improve, whereas public ownership and the associated decadence leads to a downward spiral (with the exception of costs). That is proven fact.
Competition/survival of the fittest is the only way forward.
And BA are certainly not the fittest, despite the gift of a massive slot advantage at Heathrow.
I agree that the situation in some industries is not ideal at present. This is to be expected after such an enforced revolution in the way that they operate.
However, as Darwin would have it, evolution takes time. Be patient. Let nature take it's course. In the long run privatised industries, by virtue of competition, will tend to improve, whereas public ownership and the associated decadence leads to a downward spiral (with the exception of costs). That is proven fact.
Competition/survival of the fittest is the only way forward.
And BA are certainly not the fittest, despite the gift of a massive slot advantage at Heathrow.
The rest of the public services sector?
"Hello. You have reached JarvisSerco Policing Services PLC's strategic consumer centre for your region. Your call is currently being held in a queue....."
A Bontempi organ plays Mr Blobby for the next 35 minutes
"...I am sorry we have not yet been able to answer your 999 call. Our corporate mission is total consumer delight for major stakeholder groups. Please accept our least sincere apologies.."
Mantovani this time.....
"Please enter your postcode after the tone. - Beep!"
"....I'm sorry, the postcode you have entered does not have a sufficient average annual income to warrant JarvisSerco PLC's Excellence in Policing response service at this time. Please call again later. Have a nice day.
Please be aware that your call has been recorded."
Click brrrr..
"Hello. You have reached JarvisSerco Policing Services PLC's strategic consumer centre for your region. Your call is currently being held in a queue....."
A Bontempi organ plays Mr Blobby for the next 35 minutes
"...I am sorry we have not yet been able to answer your 999 call. Our corporate mission is total consumer delight for major stakeholder groups. Please accept our least sincere apologies.."
Mantovani this time.....
"Please enter your postcode after the tone. - Beep!"
"....I'm sorry, the postcode you have entered does not have a sufficient average annual income to warrant JarvisSerco PLC's Excellence in Policing response service at this time. Please call again later. Have a nice day.
Please be aware that your call has been recorded."
Click brrrr..
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...Steamchicken you are absolutely right!
From above:
"Please enter your postcode after the tone. - Beep!"
"....I'm sorry, the postcode you have entered does not have a sufficient average annual income to warrant JarvisSerco PLC's Excellence in Policing response service at this time. Please call again later. Have a nice day.
Please be aware that your call has been recorded."
This is simply happening everyday...it is already here....and nobody cares!
very very scary
"Please enter your postcode after the tone. - Beep!"
"....I'm sorry, the postcode you have entered does not have a sufficient average annual income to warrant JarvisSerco PLC's Excellence in Policing response service at this time. Please call again later. Have a nice day.
Please be aware that your call has been recorded."
This is simply happening everyday...it is already here....and nobody cares!
very very scary
Still behind the curtain
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I was lucky. I returned from Portugal to LGW one day before the strike, but I still posted an E-mail to BA that no one told me that that I had to pay GBP 54.00 for my wife and myself on a bus ride from LGW to Terminal 1. I received an answer from the local Riga station manager yesterday saying, "sorry, but tough luck." He even reminded me that as of this month trans-Atlantic travellers will face the same dilemna from feeders. Very uppity type of guy without any PR skills. Apparently, that my company spends about USD 35,000 a year flying BA didn't phase him a bit. Sorry guys, but I and my company are going back to SAS with a changeover in Stockholm or Copenhagen.
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In the end, all the opinion being voiced on this site is a total waste of time. That's because, thank God, BA was privatised long ago. Now its not up to the tax-payer to sort the whole mess out, it's up to the man in charge. And if he can't do it then BA goes bust. And then RyanAir and Easyjet come in to clean up. It's called Capitalism.
I have to say I got a bad case of Deja Vue last night when that black guy was standing there talking to the TV cameras and spouting on about ACAS 'negoatiating with all parties'. I thought all that stuff had gone way back in the 70s. ACAS? It's obviously one of thos lovely safe Government set-ups that exists to perpetuate its own existence. Wonder what that costs us all.
I have to say I got a bad case of Deja Vue last night when that black guy was standing there talking to the TV cameras and spouting on about ACAS 'negoatiating with all parties'. I thought all that stuff had gone way back in the 70s. ACAS? It's obviously one of thos lovely safe Government set-ups that exists to perpetuate its own existence. Wonder what that costs us all.
PERCYDRAGON
"I have to say I got a bad case of Deja Vue last night when that black guy was standing there talking to the TV cameras and spouting on about ACAS 'negoatiating with all parties'. I thought all that stuff had gone way back in the 70s. ACAS? It's obviously one of thos lovely safe Government set-ups that exists to perpetuate its own existence. Wonder what that costs us all."
"that black guy"!!!!!
Do you mean Sir Bill Morris one of the most tolerant and respected TU negotiaters this country has ever seen?
Oh but HE can't be doing anything good for the country can he, He's sshh "a black guy"!!!!!
ACAS has been working in the background on low and high profile cases for years and thank goodnes they do or we would have a damn site more wildcat strikes on our hands.
But don't you worry I'm sure more industrial unrest coupled with redundancies and longer dole ques will be much, much cheaper to us all than a fraction of your tax bill on ACAS. ( To be honest I don't know who funds ACAS but I am convinced they do a fine and important job)
You don't read the Daily Liar (sorry Mail) do you?
Ryanair, Easyjet, longhaul? Don't think so. They may grab all the domestic and European routes but I think BMI amd Virgin are more likely to take the big stuff. Lets face it that is where BA have made money not shorthaul.
"I have to say I got a bad case of Deja Vue last night when that black guy was standing there talking to the TV cameras and spouting on about ACAS 'negoatiating with all parties'. I thought all that stuff had gone way back in the 70s. ACAS? It's obviously one of thos lovely safe Government set-ups that exists to perpetuate its own existence. Wonder what that costs us all."
"that black guy"!!!!!
Do you mean Sir Bill Morris one of the most tolerant and respected TU negotiaters this country has ever seen?
Oh but HE can't be doing anything good for the country can he, He's sshh "a black guy"!!!!!
ACAS has been working in the background on low and high profile cases for years and thank goodnes they do or we would have a damn site more wildcat strikes on our hands.
But don't you worry I'm sure more industrial unrest coupled with redundancies and longer dole ques will be much, much cheaper to us all than a fraction of your tax bill on ACAS. ( To be honest I don't know who funds ACAS but I am convinced they do a fine and important job)
You don't read the Daily Liar (sorry Mail) do you?
Ryanair, Easyjet, longhaul? Don't think so. They may grab all the domestic and European routes but I think BMI amd Virgin are more likely to take the big stuff. Lets face it that is where BA have made money not shorthaul.
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Well,
whatever you think of Bill Morris, ACAS, TUC etc - Further strikes will kill off BA!
And I thank my future redundancy to those selfish gits at heathrow, who object to swipe cards cos they can no longer sneak off 2 hours early!
Just a thought!
whatever you think of Bill Morris, ACAS, TUC etc - Further strikes will kill off BA!
And I thank my future redundancy to those selfish gits at heathrow, who object to swipe cards cos they can no longer sneak off 2 hours early!
Just a thought!
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TURIN
Black or white, don't make a hap'eth of difference; they'll still f**k it up. Unions and airlines don't mix, especially when you start demanding things that are not negotiable. The unions want more members, members think they can trust their promises, only to find they will get shafted later. Look at BALPA, for goodness sake! You think the other unions can do better? They just want your membership. It's like buying a new washing machine; they'll sell you insurance at exhorbitant cost in case the thing breaks down! Maggie had the right idea!
Black or white, don't make a hap'eth of difference; they'll still f**k it up. Unions and airlines don't mix, especially when you start demanding things that are not negotiable. The unions want more members, members think they can trust their promises, only to find they will get shafted later. Look at BALPA, for goodness sake! You think the other unions can do better? They just want your membership. It's like buying a new washing machine; they'll sell you insurance at exhorbitant cost in case the thing breaks down! Maggie had the right idea!
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I fail to see the reference to PANAM that seems to be todays news theme. That all happened in another era sadly after a lot of people died. It might be that BA has indeed run its course and might have to go to the wall. Time keeping in many companys is controlled by the managers with or without technology and BA has vast numbers of people who have the title manager.
As many of you good people that work for the competition have stated in your climate many of the managers and staff of BA would not last five minutes.
As many of you good people that work for the competition have stated in your climate many of the managers and staff of BA would not last five minutes.
MAGGIE HAD THE RIGHT IDEA?
Wasn't it Norman Tebbit, Maggies r/h man that led a BALPA/BA pilot's walkout in the seventies?
I would take BALPA over Amicus any day. Look at the pilot's t&cs within BA.
As someone in a previous post said. It appears fine for pilots to withdraw their labour when THEIR t&cs or pay is threatened but stuff everyone else!
Oh and please don't fall for the media/Eddington clap trap that this is all about swipe cards and clocking in/out of work. It isn't, and anyone who has been involved with industry/workforce negotiations will know that nothing is ever that black and white!
Wasn't it Norman Tebbit, Maggies r/h man that led a BALPA/BA pilot's walkout in the seventies?
I would take BALPA over Amicus any day. Look at the pilot's t&cs within BA.
As someone in a previous post said. It appears fine for pilots to withdraw their labour when THEIR t&cs or pay is threatened but stuff everyone else!
Oh and please don't fall for the media/Eddington clap trap that this is all about swipe cards and clocking in/out of work. It isn't, and anyone who has been involved with industry/workforce negotiations will know that nothing is ever that black and white!
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Well as I keep asking and nobody seems to answer, I'll ask again. When was the last time BA pilots took industrial action? In fact, when was the last time any major pilot body in the UK went on strike? Perhaps it was in the seventies. But we're not in the seventies anymore, we're not even in the same century, and claiming 'well it was OK for you thirty years ago' doesn't really cut much ice with the majority of other employess who didn't walk out.
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Let me now tidy up a few of 'Land ASAP's' misconceptions :
Many of the ground staff do NOT take 2 exotic holidays a year (worth £3/4000 a yr as he puts it) .
Most of them can barely afford a week in Europe.
And all those ground staff i know of who have been there for 10yrs+ ,have not even used their concessions for longhaul flights yet , so No - you cannot add that to their salary as it is wholly misrepresentative.
Many of them have to do overtime (now rarely available) just to get by each month .
This whole issue has been poorly represented enough in the media without your rhetoric.
If these systems will have no future impact on them, then why are BA adamant about enforcing it with no guarantee of dire consequences ?
The Ground staff really enjoy their job and have adapted already (along with all other BA staff)to a sweeping range of cost cutting changes under Future size & shape, and the business response scheme.Saving £1billion in the process.
These systems combined have the power to enforce split shifts/multiple changes to rostered hours and more .
The groundstaff are not bothered in the least about simply ' clocking in ' .
By the very nature of their job , these people have to be very resilient and adaptable.
They are not the kind of people who would lay their livelihoods/careers on the line for nothing.
Many of the ground staff do NOT take 2 exotic holidays a year (worth £3/4000 a yr as he puts it) .
Most of them can barely afford a week in Europe.
And all those ground staff i know of who have been there for 10yrs+ ,have not even used their concessions for longhaul flights yet , so No - you cannot add that to their salary as it is wholly misrepresentative.
Many of them have to do overtime (now rarely available) just to get by each month .
This whole issue has been poorly represented enough in the media without your rhetoric.
If these systems will have no future impact on them, then why are BA adamant about enforcing it with no guarantee of dire consequences ?
The Ground staff really enjoy their job and have adapted already (along with all other BA staff)to a sweeping range of cost cutting changes under Future size & shape, and the business response scheme.Saving £1billion in the process.
These systems combined have the power to enforce split shifts/multiple changes to rostered hours and more .
The groundstaff are not bothered in the least about simply ' clocking in ' .
By the very nature of their job , these people have to be very resilient and adaptable.
They are not the kind of people who would lay their livelihoods/careers on the line for nothing.
Controversial, moi?
They are not the kind of people who would lay their livelihoods/careers on the line for nothing.
I work for BA and have also worked for other companies, both in and outside of aviation.
Many aspects of the present dispute within BA are reminiscent of the days of Arthur Scargill leading his followers to oblivion. ALL departments within BA have agreements and working practises that are unsustainable.
Rod had it right today when he said that BA does not have a God given right to exist.
It is telling that so few people ever leave BA they prefer to stay and moan about how dreadful their job is and how badly they are managed. If they left, and taking the present staff in dispute there is no shortage of equivalent jobs, then perhaps the rest of us might believe they have a point.
Last weekend has left me feeling ashamed that anybody could feel it was acceptable to ruin 80,000 people's travel plans and cause such misery and distress, forgetting the financial toll and loss of future goodwill.
Those that walked out deserve to be sacked. They have union representation and the means to further their dispute officially but they chose to inflict chaos and hardship to the people that pay our wages and jeopardise all our futures.
I see this as a turning point for BA and we either sink or swim.
I am not optimistic.
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Ok, Hand solo -
BBC 24 JUL 2001
"It has been reported that British Airways, where pilots with 20 years' flying experience can expect to earn about £110,000 a year, is braced for industrial action when new pay negotiations begin later this year.
The current trend for big increases was sparked last year by United, the world's biggest airline. Its 10,000 pilots won increases of about 24% after flight disruptions caused when many withdrew from voluntary overtime.
Delta followed this year with 24-34% pay increases for its pilots and earlier this summer Lufthansa settled for a 20% hike after a series of one-day strikes among its cockpit crews. "
and Mail on Sunday Jul 1996:
British Airways pilots threaten strike July 16th
"According to a report in the UK 'The Mail on Sunday' British
Airways will draft in non-union pilots from all over the world
to break the strike threatened by it,s 3,000 flight crew.
It is planning to recruit from rival airlines and has targeted
pilots in America, Britain and the rest of Europe,
many of whom earn less than their BA counterparts.
Evidently BA are determined to defeat the strikers and they may
well recruit from carriers such as, Air France, Virgin and Britannia.
BA chief executive Robert Ayling made clear yesterday.- “he was ready for a fight 'to the finish' with BALPA.”
BALPA could retaliate by asking foreign aviation unions to blacklist any aircraft flown by scabs.
Their leader Chris Darke, insist that their members are rock solid in their intentions to strike."
Or at least of course ,as now - this is how it was perceived by the general newsreading public.
Also - how then , of course , do you feel about the pilot strike action taken by our/your European counterparts at LH/AF ? ?
BBC 24 JUL 2001
"It has been reported that British Airways, where pilots with 20 years' flying experience can expect to earn about £110,000 a year, is braced for industrial action when new pay negotiations begin later this year.
The current trend for big increases was sparked last year by United, the world's biggest airline. Its 10,000 pilots won increases of about 24% after flight disruptions caused when many withdrew from voluntary overtime.
Delta followed this year with 24-34% pay increases for its pilots and earlier this summer Lufthansa settled for a 20% hike after a series of one-day strikes among its cockpit crews. "
and Mail on Sunday Jul 1996:
British Airways pilots threaten strike July 16th
"According to a report in the UK 'The Mail on Sunday' British
Airways will draft in non-union pilots from all over the world
to break the strike threatened by it,s 3,000 flight crew.
It is planning to recruit from rival airlines and has targeted
pilots in America, Britain and the rest of Europe,
many of whom earn less than their BA counterparts.
Evidently BA are determined to defeat the strikers and they may
well recruit from carriers such as, Air France, Virgin and Britannia.
BA chief executive Robert Ayling made clear yesterday.- “he was ready for a fight 'to the finish' with BALPA.”
BALPA could retaliate by asking foreign aviation unions to blacklist any aircraft flown by scabs.
Their leader Chris Darke, insist that their members are rock solid in their intentions to strike."
Or at least of course ,as now - this is how it was perceived by the general newsreading public.
Also - how then , of course , do you feel about the pilot strike action taken by our/your European counterparts at LH/AF ? ?
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Arthur Scargill-v-M.Mouse!
Scargill, in the midst of the miners dispute, stated that the intention of the National Coal Board was to close mines and lay off workers. The NCB and the Tory government both denied this. In the end the mines went, leaving thousands of families destitute in areas where there was no other work (NB there are lots of call centres now!). Who told the truth, Arthur or the NCB.
As stated previously, workers have a right to protest, and the Conservative goverment brought in legislation that allowed employers to replace striking staff with other workers.
I suggest a search of Pprune with the word SCAB - I'll let you tell me how many threads you find where airlines have used scab labour in the pilots seat, and also what the opinion of the mass of Pprune readership is on this issue. Then come back and tell me that workers (and their elected union representation) do not have the right to industrial action.
As stated previously, workers have a right to protest, and the Conservative goverment brought in legislation that allowed employers to replace striking staff with other workers.
I suggest a search of Pprune with the word SCAB - I'll let you tell me how many threads you find where airlines have used scab labour in the pilots seat, and also what the opinion of the mass of Pprune readership is on this issue. Then come back and tell me that workers (and their elected union representation) do not have the right to industrial action.
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Hotdog/ rev - I fail to see ANY similarity between the Aussie PILOTS strike of 1989 (sorry, dispute) and the BA ground staff walk out in 2003 (sorry, guess thats a dispute too).
This action has really screwed BA badly. Sack em all..
This action has really screwed BA badly. Sack em all..