NOW start date
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One of the proposed routes to be offered by Now was Jersey. Somewhat interesting therefore, that Flybe have decided to extend their daily LTN-JER summer operation throughout the winter, thus creating a year round service. Purely coincidental of course!!!!
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Goldstone, presumably, your chum in financing is merely giving an opinion?
I am waiting for a contract and would expect to learn fairly quickly if they had shut up shop.
BTW I have no complaint about the lack of information; as a pilot I respect business confidentiality. Information about financing and contracts are not for me to know in any airline; it is just too sensitive.
I am waiting for a contract and would expect to learn fairly quickly if they had shut up shop.
BTW I have no complaint about the lack of information; as a pilot I respect business confidentiality. Information about financing and contracts are not for me to know in any airline; it is just too sensitive.
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B757RATED,
I must assume that you are currently unemployed, or relatively new to the industry.
Most pilots (in fact most people) would need to see some level of evidence that a new company is actually going to start before quitting their existing jobs.
This evidence can be a contract of employment, (which carries a limited amount of obligation on the part of the new company), confirmation of things like an AOC application, (which should be well under way by now, on the basis that two start dates have already passed) or a basic business plan, which is required to be submitted to the CAA for the purposes of getting an Operating Licence.
It would also be useful to meet the main players and determine if you have confiedence in them getting the operation up and running as planned. You should NOT allow yourself to be fobbed off with the " That information is confidential because it is too sensitive" routine. They must have a business presentation that they are showing to any prospective investor. Ask for a copy.
To give you some idea, the CAA Consumer Protection Group ( who issue the Operating licence - financial fitness) require a new airline to demonstrate that they have enough cash to start up, then run for three months with NO INCOMING REVENUE. They select the three month period based on THEIR view of when the airline is fully started. In the market that NOW is looking to enter, I figure they need to have in the region of £6M available to meet these requirements. Someone should be able to reassure you where they realistically see this money coming from, before asking you to commit to joining.
Thomas Cook Man
I must assume that you are currently unemployed, or relatively new to the industry.
Most pilots (in fact most people) would need to see some level of evidence that a new company is actually going to start before quitting their existing jobs.
This evidence can be a contract of employment, (which carries a limited amount of obligation on the part of the new company), confirmation of things like an AOC application, (which should be well under way by now, on the basis that two start dates have already passed) or a basic business plan, which is required to be submitted to the CAA for the purposes of getting an Operating Licence.
It would also be useful to meet the main players and determine if you have confiedence in them getting the operation up and running as planned. You should NOT allow yourself to be fobbed off with the " That information is confidential because it is too sensitive" routine. They must have a business presentation that they are showing to any prospective investor. Ask for a copy.
To give you some idea, the CAA Consumer Protection Group ( who issue the Operating licence - financial fitness) require a new airline to demonstrate that they have enough cash to start up, then run for three months with NO INCOMING REVENUE. They select the three month period based on THEIR view of when the airline is fully started. In the market that NOW is looking to enter, I figure they need to have in the region of £6M available to meet these requirements. Someone should be able to reassure you where they realistically see this money coming from, before asking you to commit to joining.
Thomas Cook Man
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jmc-man whilst we appreciate your opinions, why not just wait and see what happens and stop running NOW down. That's all you've done since you started posting. Give them a break, better still, give them a chance 
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Bullsh*t Alert
Shouldn't worry too much about jmc-man as I very strongly suspect that he isn't with JMC/Thomas Cook at all and never has been but is in fact a member of a spin team from another carrier which might see NOW as competition.
Ignore him
Shouldn't worry too much about jmc-man as I very strongly suspect that he isn't with JMC/Thomas Cook at all and never has been but is in fact a member of a spin team from another carrier which might see NOW as competition.
Ignore him
Last edited by Hawk; 15th Jul 2003 at 05:05.
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JMC-MAN
It seems to me you have a V-LARGE chip on your shoulder about something or someone at Now. You have had a few goes at trying to put the COO down, perhaps you are jealous? For your information I have found him to be an exceptional individual who has achieved a huge amount against all odds. It is my understanding that he founded Now airlines, which doesn’t sound like a person with a poor track record, or lack of ability.
I have decided to join Now, as have two very highly respected fleet managers from EZY, to mention only a few. I find it personally very offensive that your comments suggest that none of us know what we are doing. As someone else has said here correctly, you have tried to cast doubts over Now since the start of the various threads in a very negative way. When did you last start an airline?
Whoever you are I hope we do not end up with you in Now.
It seems to me you have a V-LARGE chip on your shoulder about something or someone at Now. You have had a few goes at trying to put the COO down, perhaps you are jealous? For your information I have found him to be an exceptional individual who has achieved a huge amount against all odds. It is my understanding that he founded Now airlines, which doesn’t sound like a person with a poor track record, or lack of ability.
I have decided to join Now, as have two very highly respected fleet managers from EZY, to mention only a few. I find it personally very offensive that your comments suggest that none of us know what we are doing. As someone else has said here correctly, you have tried to cast doubts over Now since the start of the various threads in a very negative way. When did you last start an airline?
Whoever you are I hope we do not end up with you in Now.
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GYPSY
I really don't give a stuff who you think I am. Can we stick to the topic?
Viking 9
Look, I didn't start the thread. Tailscrape did. I just responded. I'm trying to stay on topic. I am expressing my opinions. I am also reflecting the opinions of a significant part of the aviation community.
If you look at most other threads they consist of someone posting a news story or a rumour, and other people express their views.
Same here. You just don't agree with my views.
Tough.
I might not agree with yours, but Iwouldn't dare ask you to stop, unless what you were saying was factually wrong. In which case I might correct you.
If anyone in NOW wants me to retract anything I have said as being factually wrong, feel free to e-mail me. I've included my address in my profile.
Thomas Cook Man
I really don't give a stuff who you think I am. Can we stick to the topic?
Viking 9
Look, I didn't start the thread. Tailscrape did. I just responded. I'm trying to stay on topic. I am expressing my opinions. I am also reflecting the opinions of a significant part of the aviation community.
If you look at most other threads they consist of someone posting a news story or a rumour, and other people express their views.
Same here. You just don't agree with my views.
Tough.
I might not agree with yours, but Iwouldn't dare ask you to stop, unless what you were saying was factually wrong. In which case I might correct you.
If anyone in NOW wants me to retract anything I have said as being factually wrong, feel free to e-mail me. I've included my address in my profile.
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Gypsy
Instead of being paranoid about the identity of jmc-man, why don't you gaze into your crystal ball and let the people know the start date will be? I think you're in a better position than most to talk with some knowledge on the subject.
Yours as ever,
Cills
Instead of being paranoid about the identity of jmc-man, why don't you gaze into your crystal ball and let the people know the start date will be? I think you're in a better position than most to talk with some knowledge on the subject.
Yours as ever,
Cills
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Touchy touchy
Hi Max - back again with your skirt on eh? I expect that like most start ups NOW will go firm on its launch date when it is ready.
As a professional pilot, I find the birth of a new airline a positive thing as overall growth and expansion within my industry has to be good for us all; more job opportunities and market demand which drives or at least maintains salaries.
Competition in the employment market is good thing for the profession and only worries those that know that they are unable to manage their own business properly.
Hi Max - back again with your skirt on eh? I expect that like most start ups NOW will go firm on its launch date when it is ready.
As a professional pilot, I find the birth of a new airline a positive thing as overall growth and expansion within my industry has to be good for us all; more job opportunities and market demand which drives or at least maintains salaries.
Competition in the employment market is good thing for the profession and only worries those that know that they are unable to manage their own business properly.
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GYPSY
At last , a sensible posting.
As a professional pilot, I find the birth of a new airline a positive thing as overall growth and expansion within my industry has to be good for us all; more job opportunities and market demand which drives or at least maintains salaries. ( Yes, I know it's a straight copy). I applaud anyone starting a new airline for these reasons.
However, to have credibility, one has to deliver on promises. So lets see delivery. A contract of employment would be a great start.
Let me put on record, the day NOW get their AOC, I will arrange delivery of a Case of Champagne for the guys to celebrate their success, along with a letter of apology for ever doubting them.
In the meantime, I will remain a sceptic, and "encourage" those in the know to come clean about what's happening.
Of course, like everyone else, they can always just ignore me.
Thomas Cook Man
p.s. Dirty Harry, I have started 2 airlines, for what it's worth. And I knew your COO before he got his "Command".
The fact he "founded" NOW will only be relevant when NOW starts. Up to then , he's in the same league as, say Lord Tebbit and Blue Fox.
At last , a sensible posting.
As a professional pilot, I find the birth of a new airline a positive thing as overall growth and expansion within my industry has to be good for us all; more job opportunities and market demand which drives or at least maintains salaries. ( Yes, I know it's a straight copy). I applaud anyone starting a new airline for these reasons.
However, to have credibility, one has to deliver on promises. So lets see delivery. A contract of employment would be a great start.
Let me put on record, the day NOW get their AOC, I will arrange delivery of a Case of Champagne for the guys to celebrate their success, along with a letter of apology for ever doubting them.
In the meantime, I will remain a sceptic, and "encourage" those in the know to come clean about what's happening.
Of course, like everyone else, they can always just ignore me.
Thomas Cook Man
p.s. Dirty Harry, I have started 2 airlines, for what it's worth. And I knew your COO before he got his "Command".
The fact he "founded" NOW will only be relevant when NOW starts. Up to then , he's in the same league as, say Lord Tebbit and Blue Fox.
Cheers! Hic!
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Looks like your Champers is safe then!
Yes jmc-man, I can see what you mean.
Having read that, I think there's more chance of George Best getting a third liver to play with than this particular company becoming a major player in the LCA industry.
It is a shame really when you consider how much potential this market has got to offer. I reckon we all agree that more airlines starting up is overall a "good" thing for pilots, but they have got to have a REAL gameplan and have proper financial backing to be successful.
Of course we could be completely wrong here - but I don't think so.
Weather.
Having read that, I think there's more chance of George Best getting a third liver to play with than this particular company becoming a major player in the LCA industry.
It is a shame really when you consider how much potential this market has got to offer. I reckon we all agree that more airlines starting up is overall a "good" thing for pilots, but they have got to have a REAL gameplan and have proper financial backing to be successful.
Of course we could be completely wrong here - but I don't think so.
Weather.
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Gentlemen, the Motley Fool article quoted was published in March and is well past its sell by date.
The point I was making about contracts and finance arrangements is relevant. What airline would offer up these details for inspection out side the commercial department? The information is just too sensitive for wide circulation particularly in these days of bulletin board gossip.
Business confidence is an essential criteria. Should NOW not commence operations I would fully expect (and understand) that they would exude confidence up to the last minute. I have no problem with that. However, this business of continually commenting adversely on a future airlines prospects is intriguing. There is an angle whereby it is beneficial to rubbish a competitors reputation in the hope of, critically, spoiling their finance and credit arrangements. Presumably financiers read Pprune too and continual subjective adverse comment does not, at the very least, help . Certainly the press quote the (seemingly) more informed comment from time to time.
There has been some adverse comment about the COO and his co-pilot background. Personally I have heard very good account of his management ability. I would argue that the skill set of an airline Captain is not that of a business executive. His command experience is irrelevant.
My own take is that NOW projected a very good culture at my interview particularly towards operational and safety matters. For that, at least, I hope things work out.
For my own part, I will go with my gut feeling upon receipt of a contract. As an overview I think that that there is still enough low flying fruit in the low cost sector for another team to go picking.
The point I was making about contracts and finance arrangements is relevant. What airline would offer up these details for inspection out side the commercial department? The information is just too sensitive for wide circulation particularly in these days of bulletin board gossip.
Business confidence is an essential criteria. Should NOW not commence operations I would fully expect (and understand) that they would exude confidence up to the last minute. I have no problem with that. However, this business of continually commenting adversely on a future airlines prospects is intriguing. There is an angle whereby it is beneficial to rubbish a competitors reputation in the hope of, critically, spoiling their finance and credit arrangements. Presumably financiers read Pprune too and continual subjective adverse comment does not, at the very least, help . Certainly the press quote the (seemingly) more informed comment from time to time.
There has been some adverse comment about the COO and his co-pilot background. Personally I have heard very good account of his management ability. I would argue that the skill set of an airline Captain is not that of a business executive. His command experience is irrelevant.
My own take is that NOW projected a very good culture at my interview particularly towards operational and safety matters. For that, at least, I hope things work out.
For my own part, I will go with my gut feeling upon receipt of a contract. As an overview I think that that there is still enough low flying fruit in the low cost sector for another team to go picking.
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As well as being months old, that article is written by an amateur.
MOTLEY FOOL is a two bit website that attracts spiv two pence investors....in fact just the lemmings it speaks of in the article.....
The site tends to have contributions from individuals "talking up their own book"......after all, the author owns shares in BA for heaven's sake!
Rumbled....
However, I have today decided to write to NOW and thank them for their interest in me, but that I no longer wish to be considered for a pilot job with them. I just think the industry is improving, I have a steady if undramatic job currently on the 757 and am in no rush to start working hard!
Anyhow, that leaves a space for another FO. Good luck guys, I hope it works for you all.
MOTLEY FOOL is a two bit website that attracts spiv two pence investors....in fact just the lemmings it speaks of in the article.....
The site tends to have contributions from individuals "talking up their own book"......after all, the author owns shares in BA for heaven's sake!
Rumbled....However, I have today decided to write to NOW and thank them for their interest in me, but that I no longer wish to be considered for a pilot job with them. I just think the industry is improving, I have a steady if undramatic job currently on the 757 and am in no rush to start working hard!
Anyhow, that leaves a space for another FO. Good luck guys, I hope it works for you all.
Last edited by tailscrape; 15th Jul 2003 at 23:05.
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They are advertising again for type rated Captains - aviationjobsearch.com
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Heard today that route schedules are unlikely to be finalised until August at the earliest. Bookings therefore, will not start in July as mentioned on their website. October, for the start of flying though, still remains on the cards. We shall see.
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Another deadline slips
Assuming about two weeks of induction training etc for pilots, and the standard three month notice period...it's getting a bit late for contracts.
Even if issued tomorrow, and the individuals gave their notice, the couldn't start until mid October..
Thomas Cook Man
Assuming about two weeks of induction training etc for pilots, and the standard three month notice period...it's getting a bit late for contracts.
Even if issued tomorrow, and the individuals gave their notice, the couldn't start until mid October..
Thomas Cook Man