British Airways-2
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I have heard suggestions of MAN, would make logical sense as the first step outside of London. Big FF catchment as well as facilities to support expansion, existing IAG long haul presence for possible connections, right market for leisure routes, could it be the time to finally step back in to MAN? Time will tell.
I'd only expect to see Euroflyer at 2 ports outside of London. MAN and maybe a Scottish one. There just aren't the aircraft for more than that.
I'd only expect to see Euroflyer at 2 ports outside of London. MAN and maybe a Scottish one. There just aren't the aircraft for more than that.
Let's get real here! It's a mad idea, bonkers on stilts, a spotters wet dream. Let's test this.
Outside of London ;
Name 5 UK-xyz city pairs that BA could beat easyJet, Ryanair, TUI or Jet2 on?
Name 5 UK-xyz city pairs that BA could beat KLM, Air France, Lufthansa, Swiss or Iberia on?
I cannot concieve of one. They'd be a poor 3rd or 4th in sun volume markets and eaten alive in city business routes with no feed at either end. And that's before you get the notion they'd likely offer Club! I'd love them to try, they have an unbroken record of failure outside of London for......er forever, none of it ever made any real money. Unless it's Go-Fly II, this one's DOA.
Outside of London ;
Name 5 UK-xyz city pairs that BA could beat easyJet, Ryanair, TUI or Jet2 on?
Name 5 UK-xyz city pairs that BA could beat KLM, Air France, Lufthansa, Swiss or Iberia on?
I cannot concieve of one. They'd be a poor 3rd or 4th in sun volume markets and eaten alive in city business routes with no feed at either end. And that's before you get the notion they'd likely offer Club! I'd love them to try, they have an unbroken record of failure outside of London for......er forever, none of it ever made any real money. Unless it's Go-Fly II, this one's DOA.
Hi Skip - I'm inclined to agree, although there is still a certain cache in the BA name which might attract a few...
We all know that 'profitable' is a moveable feast depending on how costs and revenue are allocated across a network, but what's the rationale for your "none of it ever made any real money" comment (apart from none of them are operating)?
We all know that 'profitable' is a moveable feast depending on how costs and revenue are allocated across a network, but what's the rationale for your "none of it ever made any real money" comment (apart from none of them are operating)?
Join Date: Aug 2012
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Let's get real here! It's a mad idea, bonkers on stilts, a spotters wet dream. Let's test this.
Outside of London ;
Name 5 UK-xyz city pairs that BA could beat easyJet, Ryanair, TUI or Jet2 on?
Name 5 UK-xyz city pairs that BA could beat KLM, Air France, Lufthansa, Swiss or Iberia on?
I cannot concieve of one. They'd be a poor 3rd or 4th in sun volume markets and eaten alive in city business routes with no feed at either end. And that's before you get the notion they'd likely offer Club! I'd love them to try, they have an unbroken record of failure outside of London for......er forever, none of it ever made any real money. Unless it's Go-Fly II, this one's DOA.
Outside of London ;
Name 5 UK-xyz city pairs that BA could beat easyJet, Ryanair, TUI or Jet2 on?
Name 5 UK-xyz city pairs that BA could beat KLM, Air France, Lufthansa, Swiss or Iberia on?
I cannot concieve of one. They'd be a poor 3rd or 4th in sun volume markets and eaten alive in city business routes with no feed at either end. And that's before you get the notion they'd likely offer Club! I'd love them to try, they have an unbroken record of failure outside of London for......er forever, none of it ever made any real money. Unless it's Go-Fly II, this one's DOA.
Add into that from a MAN perspective, where the hell are they planning on parking them? T3 cannot take anymore RYR so it would have to involve a terminal move. They won’t go to T1 for 12 months before it shuts surely so that leaves T2 which is logical given EI UK, but T2 is already operating a vast remote parking operation (which I’m not sure is something BA would want) so I don’t know where the space would come from for BA to base 3/4 a/c at MAN. Any smaller op than that surely isn’t viable?
If you're mixing in the same circles perhaps the people around you are continously telling you the same thing. Say it over and over again and people start to believe in whatever they say. I'm certainly not that type of person.
But it's a serious question and it might clarify things if you could let us know the source of these 'rumours' you keep 'hearing'.
Hi Skip - I'm inclined to agree, although there is still a certain cache in the BA name which might attract a few...
We all know that 'profitable' is a moveable feast depending on how costs and revenue are allocated across a network, but what's the rationale for your "none of it ever made any real money" comment (apart from none of them are operating)?
We all know that 'profitable' is a moveable feast depending on how costs and revenue are allocated across a network, but what's the rationale for your "none of it ever made any real money" comment (apart from none of them are operating)?
Look at the relative competitive landscape and show me a winning non London niche, cos I can't for the life of me see it. Even LGW is doing the BA REGIONAL thing from the mid 90s of a stand alone profit centre flying hand me down mainline or second hand aircraft while everyone else in market buys more efficient new builds. Even IAG's Vueling and Iberia Express have new NEOs, the fact BA EUROFLYER don't, suggests to me the Finance team basically said the business case to ask IAG for new aircraft was too weak.
I would however, love to be wrong on this.
The only routes I could see having a chance from MAN would be to cater for the 'Cheshire Set' ski routes in winter and the Málaga and Greece summer breaks. As has been said, all adequately covered by the low costs. Is there a market for those that, how shall I put this, would rather not sit with the Ryanair rif raf?
I really don't know. 😁
I really don't know. 😁
Join Date: May 2005
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The only routes I could see having a chance from MAN would be to cater for the 'Cheshire Set' ski routes in winter and the Málaga and Greece summer breaks. As has been said, all adequately covered by the low costs. Is there a market for those that, how shall I put this, would rather not sit with the Ryanair rif raf?
I really don't know. 😁
I really don't know. 😁
Join Date: Mar 2023
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The notion that Euroflyer can’t support new aircraft is incorrect. It’s simply cheaper to fly the NEO from Heathrow.
Join Date: May 2005
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Nothing wrong with old airframes in the right place- just look at Jet2 flying 733s ex LBA - right now.
I have a friend who still flies BA over EasyJet or Ryan- she can't be the only one.
MAN-AMS,BCN,PRG,MAD, Nice, Madeira, TLV (when things calm down) plus Greece, Spain and Italy and bit of Turkey in summer and Ski and some Canaries winter. for starters. Need some tie in to OTAs and tour operators.
EDI (not GLA) is a bit more difficult but broadly similar.
I'm sure I will get shot down.
I have a friend who still flies BA over EasyJet or Ryan- she can't be the only one.
MAN-AMS,BCN,PRG,MAD, Nice, Madeira, TLV (when things calm down) plus Greece, Spain and Italy and bit of Turkey in summer and Ski and some Canaries winter. for starters. Need some tie in to OTAs and tour operators.
EDI (not GLA) is a bit more difficult but broadly similar.
I'm sure I will get shot down.
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Nothing wrong with old airframes in the right place- just look at Jet2 flying 733s ex LBA - right now.
I have a friend who still flies BA over EasyJet or Ryan- she can't be the only one.
MAN-AMS,BCN,PRG,MAD, Nice, Madeira, TLV (when things calm down) plus Greece, Spain and Italy and bit of Turkey in summer and Ski and some Canaries winter. for starters. Need some tie in to OTAs and tour operators.
EDI (not GLA) is a bit more difficult but broadly similar.
I'm sure I will get shot down.
I have a friend who still flies BA over EasyJet or Ryan- she can't be the only one.
MAN-AMS,BCN,PRG,MAD, Nice, Madeira, TLV (when things calm down) plus Greece, Spain and Italy and bit of Turkey in summer and Ski and some Canaries winter. for starters. Need some tie in to OTAs and tour operators.
EDI (not GLA) is a bit more difficult but broadly similar.
I'm sure I will get shot down.
It's fine, as long as you don't say something or suggest something positive about Gatwick or a development at BA.
Join Date: Feb 2015
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There is still a huge gap at MAN as a result of the demise of TCX and MON, there are thousands of seat missing monthly that no other operator has fully made up for, seat only sales are pretty much confined to FR and EZY, to many destinations, J2 and TUI are not interested in seat only sales preferring to concentrate on the IT market.
LGW has in the IAG family BAEF, Vueling etc, BAEF or Vueling would bring much needed capacity to MAN.
LGW has in the IAG family BAEF, Vueling etc, BAEF or Vueling would bring much needed capacity to MAN.
Vuelling and Iberia Express already operate through MAN. Only a few flights a week to BCN and MAD but it's there.
BA are the oddballs in that they don't fly new builds in market, even Jet2 bought a new fleet of B73Hs and are taking A321Ns as we speak. If LGW did as well for BA as we'd all like to hope, even me, there would be a Club Suite refresh plan and new A32Ns / Maxes coming. Neither is happening. It's not a LGW problem, it's an inability of BA to make LGW work well enough for them on it's own merits, like everything else, LHR comes first as that seems to be where consistent money is made for BA, others do way better. Follow the money?
Jet2 do loads of seat only, it's why half the fleet is in grey and red, I flew on one last weekend on a seat only basis on a short break to Spain.
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No, that's not what I said. By comparison, easyJet have a LGW based fleet of NEOs. WizzUK, likewise. What I said was BA's finance team apparently cannot see an ROI on going to IAG to ask for new NEOs for Euroflyer as the business case isn't strong enough. Could be wrong, but with so many aircraft on order.....
BA are the oddballs in that they don't fly new builds in market, even Jet2 bought a new fleet of B73Hs and are taking A321Ns as we speak. If LGW did as well for BA as we'd all like to hope, even me, there would be a Club Suite refresh plan and new A32Ns / Maxes coming. Neither is happening. It's not a LGW problem, it's an inability of BA to make LGW work well enough for them on it's own merits, like everything else, LHR comes first as that seems to be where consistent money is made for BA, others do way better. Follow the money?
Jet2 do loads of seat only, it's why half the fleet is in grey and red, I flew on one last weekend on a seat only basis on a short break to Spain.
BA are the oddballs in that they don't fly new builds in market, even Jet2 bought a new fleet of B73Hs and are taking A321Ns as we speak. If LGW did as well for BA as we'd all like to hope, even me, there would be a Club Suite refresh plan and new A32Ns / Maxes coming. Neither is happening. It's not a LGW problem, it's an inability of BA to make LGW work well enough for them on it's own merits, like everything else, LHR comes first as that seems to be where consistent money is made for BA, others do way better. Follow the money?
Jet2 do loads of seat only, it's why half the fleet is in grey and red, I flew on one last weekend on a seat only basis on a short break to Spain.
Perhaps as Heathrow becomes even more constrained, and Gatwick does bring its Northern runway into routine operation, they will have to look at things again. At recent results meetings it has been said that they are watching developments at Gatwick very closely. They are also keen to have all their leased out slots at Gatwick returned to them by summer 2025.
The increasing number of full service airlines beginning services from Gatwick is also an interesting development and I am sure BA are keeping an eye too.
The increasing number of full service airlines beginning services from Gatwick is also an interesting development and I am sure BA are keeping an eye too.