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Stansted-4

Old 26th Aug 2022, 10:07
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Originally Posted by JW95
USA - I don't think Norse would wish to have a dual London operation from a cost-based perspective. IIRC, they did initially secure slots at STN before opting for LGW once slots there became available. LGW is also being flagged up as a base for Norse once they establish their UK based subsidiary, making an entry to STN even less likely. If anything, I do see scope for JetBlue to serve STN once more aircraft come online, and they have a sufficient number of daily rotations at both LHR and LGW before moving onto consider a third London airport. But I do think this will be some time yet. It's a shame that American Airlines couldn't make STN work when they tried in the 1990s and 2007-8, as it would be nice to see them back, perhaps this time with one of their A321NEOs.
I can't see AA at STN, their JV partner has more slots at LHR and LGW than they know what to do with given the demand, crew shortages and fleet retirements. As another poster said, the cost of living/recession situation in the UK is going to put a considerable dent in ex-UK demand. The Ukraine war puts a dent in ex-US demand, even if the USD remains strong compared to GBP and EUR.

I think Norse were probably the best chance STN has of west-bound long-haul, as a point to point airline. While EK has shown that ex-STN can work, they have such a huge hub in Dubai that it makes AA or B6's East Cost hubs look like regional focus cities, they cant get more slots in London for their hub banks. The p2p is just gravy. I think its fair to say that no-one has made long-haul point-to-point work yet, from the days of Laker's skytrain right the way through to Virgin Atlantic, Thomas Cook and Norwegian. The utilisation just cant be made high enough to get the unit costs low enough to sustainably offer low-fares without bleeding to death. The US3/EU3 are prepared to match/subsidise these loss leaders with profits from Premium and Business Class and higher fares on routes where they face no competition.
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Old 26th Aug 2022, 12:57
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Is there a reason why every flight on Stansted's official webpage says "refer to airline" as its status? It has been like this for weeks, if not months.

I imagine some people are unaware of FlightRadar24 and other sources of information.
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 13:29
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Are there any updates as to when we could see FlyPop's services commence from STN?

Also, there was a discussion earlier in the thread that MAG have supposedly scrapped the arrivals building in favour of a second terminal and fourth satellite. Does anyone know more on this and when we may see the revised plans?
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 13:35
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Originally Posted by JW95
Are there any updates as to when we could see FlyPop's services commence from STN?
Without an AOC it is hard to see how they are going to get permissions from the Indian or UK authorities to operate any services. Having a pretty livery on an aircraft that isn't actually yours, and registered in a third country is unlikely to impress either governing body. I would make a small wager that Hans Airways will be first in the "race" to get up and running in their own right. Not that the first carrier is necessarily, in the longer term to be the successful one. With AI already upping their game on ATQ/BHX Hans could find it tough.
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 14:46
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Came through early Wednesday, arriving after 0130 on Jet2. Late, as were a number of others. Took 75 minutes of queueing, until after 0300, to even reach an immigration officer in the queue. In fact, by the time we finally were leaving the terminal, there were considerable numbers arriving for the first 0600 flights. Quite a few points.

- There seemed to be, by my judgement, about 2,000-plus people in the queue, say 12 or more737-800s worth. By 0300, looking back, the queue seemed to be the same, subsequent arrivals were just adding to numbers at the rate they were being handled.

- The Transit had been shut down, possibly for the night, and bus transfers were being used instead, which decanted passengers to get to immigration by a series of emergency exit doors opened for them.

- There is now the most enormous zig-zag queueing area set up for immigration, which now occupies a significant percentage of the Norman Foster 1991 terminal building. This is clearly a daily event.

- Despite this, the queue extended way back before this provision, right down the steep stairs approach from the buses, surely a safety hazard which the airport has chosen to ignore.

- Checking nightly since, the number of actual post-midnight arrivals was the norm. So presumably this happens every night.

- There is a huge and continuous publicity string all the way along about being ready for the e-passport gates, an extensive artwork campaign that must have cost a considerable sum, with sneering comments about "needing to be ready" for them, but without the slightest helpful indication on who can use them and who not.

- And guess what, they were all closed (25 e-passport gates) anyway, and everyone sent to manual checking. So all the expensive signage etc was a complete waste of time. If it's going to be turned off, don't stick up umpteen permanent signs telling everyone to be ready for it.

- The other continuously signed aspect is all about don't abuse the staff, etc, there must be 30 to 40 such notices, endorsed by every public agency you can think of in varying combinations - MAG, Essex police, immigration, Uncle Tom Cobbley, etc. What a first time impression for arriving visitors.

- One wondered whether toilets should be provided halfway along the queue. A number were in obvious distress.

- One does wonder that if the management spent less time on sticking up irrelevant mass notices, and more on organising to handle the numbers they willingly sign up for with airlines (after all, it wasn't as if we weren't expected that night), things would be a lot better.

- I would say that the immigration staff themselves, once finally reached, were still spot on in pleasantness and professionalism. Unfortunately I can't say that about the whining, shouting, uniform-dishevelled, stoned-looking, airport-employed queue marshals, who appeared to wish they had been issued with cattle prods to handle the crowds.

- Of course, management will say that immigration is "nuffin' to do wiv' me, mate". But the airport management's job is to pull together ALL the aspects of the operation, and come down on any part that is giving issues. Now I know that the upper management approach is never to complain, always to deflect, about issues with immigration and customs, because they are too close to the approvals team in Whitehall for CBEs etc, but that's just too bad, the management have to run the show. Besides which MAG chairman Sir Adrian Montague has already got his CBE and knighthood, so little to lose.

Last edited by WHBM; 10th Sep 2022 at 16:55.
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 16:22
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Air departure tax in the Netherlands will increase by 20 euros from the start of next year. Ryanair's route between Stansted and Maastricht always seems to be the cheapest way to fly between the UK and the Netherlands (or nearby areas of Belgium and Germany). I'm wondering if this route might be cut in the near future...
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 16:36
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Emirates Figures August

With the summer holidays now over I have looked at the Emirates figures for the month of August and this is the result.

Total departing passenger: 10284
This works out to a 93% load factor for the month.
Total arriving passengers: 10416
This works out to a 96% load factor for the month.
Overall the load factor for the month was 94%

Very impressive loads for the month. Obviously being the summer holiday it’s likely these loads may drop but if memory serves me right the average load factor prior to the service suspended before covid was 83% overall on the double daily flights.
Still looks to on the cards for the second flight to resume soon. Talk around the airport is to have it commence for the winter schedule. But still no official announcement.
For the winter schedule the flight times do change.

EK65 DXB 0820-1210 STN
EK66 STN 1355-0050 +1 STN

The double airbridge that has been constructed on Alpha 13 linking to Gate 12. This is still having issues with installation by contractor ‘Volker Fitzpatrick’. From what I hear it was looking to be signed off this week. But didn’t hear that this had been done. Hopefully this can be done next week.
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 16:52
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I have seen reports that the artificial cap imposed on daily pax numbers using LHR has resulted in some demand being displaced to alternative departure airports nearby. The Emirates departures from STN and LGW (amongst others) would be temporarily boosted by this. But the question becomes what load factors will be sustainable once LHR is again permitted to accommodate "normal" levels of demand? What is the underlying load factor from STN on a long-term view? That is the number which will determine capacity planning for the route going forward.
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 17:36
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Originally Posted by OzzyOzBorn
I have seen reports that the artificial cap imposed on daily pax numbers using LHR has resulted in some demand being displaced to alternative departure airports nearby. The Emirates departures from STN and LGW (amongst others) would be temporarily boosted by this. But the question becomes what load factors will be sustainable once LHR is again permitted to accommodate "normal" levels of demand? What is the underlying load factor from STN on a long-term view? That is the number which will determine capacity planning for the route going forward.
Well like I said from my memory the load factor prior service suspension on the double daily flights was 83%. There wouldn’t be talk of resuming the second flight if Stansted was only succeeding due to Heathrow’s passenger cap.
Stansted was a stand alone operation before and succeeded very well to the level Emirates wanted to add more than the double daily flights. Yes the loads might be slightly higher due to the Heathrow capacity limit but it’s not making a huge impact.
In fact prior to Heathrow having the cap, Stansted already had flights sold out for certain days.
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Old 12th Sep 2022, 15:08
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Air Albania seems to be having some issues with their equivalent of Companies House...
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Old 12th Sep 2022, 15:21
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Originally Posted by davidjohnson6
Air Albania seems to be having some issues with their equivalent of Companies House...
Surprising thought Air Albania where backed by Turkish Airlines?
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Old 12th Sep 2022, 21:52
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Originally Posted by STN406
Surprising thought Air Albania where backed by Turkish Airlines?
That might be the cause of the problem. Air Albania have yet to make a formal declaration as to who their beneficial owners are... and the Albanian companies registrar is not impressed
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Old 13th Sep 2022, 00:26
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Originally Posted by davidjohnson6
That might be the cause of the problem. Air Albania have yet to make a formal declaration as to who their beneficial owners are... and the Albanian companies registrar is not impressed
Ah I can see why they are in a slight bit of bother then
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Old 15th Sep 2022, 10:38
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Some interesting arrivals due today,

Biman Bangladesh B789 -15:17 ETA 16:17.
Juneyao Airlines B789 - 21:40 ETA 19:51.
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Old 15th Sep 2022, 18:35
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KLM UK History at STN

Was doing some reading earlier this week on the former KLM UK STN operation during 1998-2003. Prior to handing over to Buzz, what routes, other than AMS, did KLM serve from STN? Also, does anyone have any pictures of the old KLM Executive Lounge in satellite 2 before it was closed down and turned into what is now the Wetherspoons Express pub?
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Old 15th Sep 2022, 22:34
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Originally Posted by JW95
Was doing some reading earlier this week on the former KLM UK STN operation during 1998-2003. Prior to handing over to Buzz, what routes, other than AMS, did KLM serve from STN? Also, does anyone have any pictures of the old KLM Executive Lounge in satellite 2 before it was closed down and turned into what is now the Wetherspoons Express pub?
From memory KLM UK operated most routes that were previously flown by AirUK;
Aberdeen, Glasgow, Edinburgh & Inverness
Jersey & Guernsey
Amsterdam, Paris, Nice, Frankfurt, Düsseldorf, Hamburg, Innsbruck, Zurich, Milan & Florence. Possibly more.
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Old 16th Sep 2022, 18:42
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I think Air UKs peak operation was 1996/97 prior to becoming KLM UK, I think Rotterdam was launched in 1996 and was 4 daily, Inverness was launched after maybe in 1997 and I think was the last Air UK route. I believe the only new KLM UK route launched at Stansted was Rome as KLM and Alitalia had an alliance - this also at the time saw Alitalia flights (operated by Azzura Air) at Stansted. By then however routes to Madrid and Nice had been dropped, these has been mid-day fillers between the morning and afternoon peaks and suffered from newly formed easyjet at Luton, Rotterdam was moved to London City, while other routes got downgraded, Zurich was operated by a Suckling Do338 and Paris by Gill Air ATR's. The arrival of Go all had effect as they launched rotues to places like Copenhagen which Air UK served.

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Old 16th Sep 2022, 20:18
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Basically, after about 1999, KLM lost almost all interest in London Stansted and managed to offload Buzz for a pittance to Ryanair a few years later.

They only wanted the UK connections in to Amsterdam and the opportunity to offload some nearly worthless, early model, F100 and F70.

They then treated the UK employed crews pretty badly.

My thoughts are that Buzz was going in the right direction and would have done very well.

I very much enjoyed my time with AirUK.
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Old 17th Sep 2022, 01:18
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Air UK

[QUOTE=JW95;11297299]Was doing some reading earlier this week on the former KLM UK STN operation during 1998-2003. Prior to handing over to Buzz, what routes, other than AMS, did KLM serve from STN? Also, does anyone have any pictures of the old KLM Executive Lounge in satellite 2 before it was closed down and turned into what is now the Wetherspoons Express pub?[/QUOTE

Although it doesn't answer your questions regarding KLM UK at London Stansted Airport which others have covered in nicely. I've attached a link to something that might be of interest to you. You may well be familiar with departed flights.com. The link covers schedules for London Stansted Airport for 1996.

STN96intro

Hopefully the link works.
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Old 17th Sep 2022, 13:49
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I checked my old records, when Air UK became KLM UK in early 1998 the following routes where flown from Stansted

Aberdeen, Amsterdam, Brussels, Dusseldorf, Edinburgh, Frankfurt, Glasgow, Guernsey, Inverness, Jersey, Milan (Linate), Newcastle (UK flight numbers but operated by Gill Air) , Paris (CDG)
Hamburg had Gill flight numbers by operated in association with KLM UK. Braathans, Eurowings and KLM Excel services also operated in association with KLM UK.

I think by the time KLM UK became Buzz, only Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Milan and Paris where left from the old network, KLM UK continued to operate Amsterdam until this became a Buzz route

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