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Old 6th Dec 2020, 14:08
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Originally Posted by RW20
Good points
The runway application will be rejected .......​
Can we assume that this is a personal viewpoint and that we can retain faith in the legal planning process?
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Old 6th Dec 2020, 14:50
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I agree Wizz are probably now the most likely to open some routes after the works are completed. Easy are probably still the best match for SOU but Wizz seem to be riding out the Covid crisis much better than them. Wizz’s links to Eastern Europe would also be perfect to serve the huge Easter European population in the south. I happen to know quite a few who travel as far as Luton to use Wizz. They are clearly also targeting sun routes that use to be served by Thomas Cook.

in terms of Southampton council objecting to the planning, this is hardly surprising when there are militant labour Councillors in charge that are ruining the city by making it only possible to get in and out on a bicycle. Their so called green city charter basically means they have tied their hands behind their back when it comes to supporting anything that goes against the deluded Eco-mentalists. The ridiculous thing is that they partly objected on the basis of noise despite the fact SOU have offered to implement a noise cap which currently doesn’t even exist. Also ironic that they are happy for the docks to start building a fifth cruise terminal when the boats are one of the biggest polluters in the city. There is still a glimmer of hope that Eastleigh Council will agree to give planning as it means jobs for their constituents but it is looking more likely that SOU will have to go down the appeal route. I fully expect SOU to win on appeal as the extension is crucial to their business and they have done enough to address noise/environmental concerns.
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Old 7th Dec 2020, 09:42
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It's a shame that Southampton hasn't approved it. I still don't understand why the airport doesn't approach the issue differently, as a way of keeping it's existing operators planes fuller - this is an environmental benefit. If they avoid talking about 320's and 737's then the discussion becomes keeping existing business sustainable with an extension. I don't understand their thinking. Telling everyone they're going to attract more planes, louder planes, bigger planes is creating their own problems locally.

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Old 7th Dec 2020, 09:44
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Good point Rivet Jet on the sou cruise terminal. Cruise/shipping in general is one of the worst polluters of carbon ever! Cruise industry is probably throwing money at the council. Double standards!!
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Old 7th Dec 2020, 10:45
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Is the cruise industry throwing money at the council? I thought that the cruise industry existed offshore and famously didn't pay taxes anywhere. No fuel duty, no VAT, no social security levies, next to no corporation tax.
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Old 7th Dec 2020, 18:31
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It's a manner of speaking. I don't mean literally. The associated infrastructure and businesses supporting cruise passengers must be massive in and around Southampton - I'm thinking hotels, shops, restaurants, transport, before and after their journey etc etc... it's more that the council have dollar signs in their vision when making decisions about a cruise terminal (ignoring pollution) but don't veiw SOU's runway in the same way (despite the lower emissions of aircraft versus cruise industry)
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 16:34
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What you say about cruise ships and pollution is certainly true in respect of most of the older ships but massive steps are being made to tackle this problem with most new build ships having much cleaner propulsion systems.
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 17:20
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Planning decision delayed until 2021 (no date)...Southampton Airport to submit additional info...
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 18:35
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It's worse than that, tax payer money is being used to build the new terminal. Whilst it looks like it is going to have shore power it is a bit ironic that the council are happy for a fifth cruise terminal and all its associated polution but not a small extension to its airport's runway.

Shamrock7seal: Good point, I guess the cruise industry does contribute more to the city. Surely any aspirational city requires a successful airport though. I guess it is indicative of the truly mad world we find ourselves in where double standards apparently don't exist.

Jamesair1: That is true but there is a brand new one in at the moment that has had smoke pouring out of it for a few days now. It seems the shipping industry is supported whereas aviation is blamed for everything. If it was supported better maybe there would be more investment in developing hydrogen/electric planes.
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 18:47
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southside bobby

It is just going to go on and on ,and the longer it goes on then there will be more opposition,and less appetite for any airline to commit to SOU. The pressure of new needed housing will transmit to selling the airport land for development.
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 22:06
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Curious - Southampton has appeared in the drop-down menu on within the last few days. Anyone know what's afoot?
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 22:34
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No idea but have seen rumours of a U.K. airport running a summer seasonal programme with BA Cityflyer!?
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 22:54
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Loganair code share with BA Loganair fly to SOU
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 23:06
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Pessimistic - BA codeshare on some existing routes - maybe Loganair/Blue Islands? But not sure how that would benefit BA, the only obvious connections being to Aer Lingus via DUB/MAN(assuming the latter goes ahead).
Optimistic - BA Cityflyer flying some weekend sun routes next summer as they have from other airports - ALC/AGP/PMI/FAO, possibly Greece too?
Up in the clouds - BA Cityflyer basing a few E170/190's flying a mix of European city and sun routes.

Regarding the second scenario, while they'll never be able to offer LCC fares, BACF are probably best placed for flying any longer routes at least off the current runway - their LCY spec (i.e. powerful) E-Jets manage LCY-JSI and similar non stop. Believe they are limited to ~75-80 seats or so, but the 200m runway advantage at SOU vs LCY would probably allow a full 98 passengers on their E190. In fact, I remember it being quoted that FlyLolo were limited to 97 seats on the Flybe E195 which would support this assumption.

Looking at the third it initially seems absurd, but business travel is predicted to recover very slowly BACF may find an excess of capacity at LCY, even accounting for the leisure routes that have grown in recent years there. Outside of SOU there are not many airports that do not have any significant LCC competition on the main european routes, and the runway length works in its favour in this sense to maintain this. In this purely hypothetical scenario, I can't see them not wanting a slice of the major domestic and Irish routes - EDI, GLA, BHD, DUB so it could spell bad news for the likes of Loganair and Eastern.
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Old 9th Dec 2020, 10:34
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BA City Flyer 11+ weekend routes from Southampton for summer 2021.

As reported on twitter:
  • Berlin starts 2nd May, Sunday out, Friday back
  • Edinburgh starts 16th May, Sunday out, Friday back
  • Bergerac starts 15th May, weekends plus Tuesday in peak season
  • Faro starts 1st May
  • Florence starts 1st May
  • Ibiza starts 2nd May
  • Limoges starts 15th May
  • Malaga starts 1st May
  • Mykonos starts 16th May
  • Nice starts 15th May
  • Palma starts 1st May
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Old 9th Dec 2020, 10:52
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Great news for the airport - any ideas on how many a/c will be required each weekend?!?
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Old 9th Dec 2020, 10:59
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Some very good news for SOU! The following seems to be bookable at the moment (some duplicate information from above...). All appear to be E190 operated, although some of the flight times seem a little lethargic for a jet (SOU-FAO is 3hrs!).

Berlin - out Sun/return Fri (positioning flight)
Bergerac - Tues/Sat/Sun
Faro - Sat
Florence - Sat/Sun
Edinburgh - out Sun/return Fri (positioning flight)
Ibiza - Sat/Sun
Limoges - Sat
Malaga - Sat/Sun
Mykonos - Sun
Nice - Sat
Palma - Sat/Sun

Looks like 3 aircraft needed Sat and 2 on Sun (the Edinburgh positioning flight departs in the morning).
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Old 9th Dec 2020, 12:09
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looks like they’ve used LCY block times, should be at least 15 mins faster to/from SOU versus the odd routings in and out of LCY
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Old 9th Dec 2020, 12:22
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Flybe's EMB 195 sat 118 pax so the JSI flights done for FlyLoLo were an awful payload penalty at 97 seats - and 1 or 2 flights still had to tech stop IIRC...

Someone mentioned above if an A321NEO can do TFS from SOU - answer is nope. Not even with the planned starter strip. The A321 has a higher risk of tail strike.
It can operate in/out of Skiathos but it will usually Tech stop on the way home.
An A320 maybe able to do SOU to Greece or the Canaries likely with a payload penalty of around 15-20 seats less.

The BACF program from SOU looks rather nice for summer 21.
Pray we have some normality back for our travel abroad to the Med by early summer, but if we don't then that lot will not happen in any quantity.

Needs around 3 aircraft both days -- unless W patterns are going to be happening>?
But W's on a SAT or a SUN originating at LCY are an issue with the LCY pm/am airport closures on those days.
So you cannot do LCY-JMK-SOU-JMK-LCY for instance.

The main major historical weekend charterer of BACF was Bar Head Travel in Scotland who did loads of holiday flights from GLA EDI and ABZ, but sadly they are not renewing their own BACF charter flight series for next summer after having to cancel all of their S20 programme.
This, I guess means BACF are going alone and having a stab at SOU...

The only other sunshine flights are with TUI packages to Palma on TUE and SATS (Volotea flying)
TUI cancelled the IBZ and MAH series.
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Old 9th Dec 2020, 12:56
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A bit of good news for a change;
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