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Emerald Airlines

Old 29th Aug 2022, 22:13
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Does anyone know the timescales for an airline to obtain a UK AOC to operate within the UK? Is there a deadline that Emerald are working towards or should this AOC technically already be in place?
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Old 7th Sep 2022, 22:20
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....Although I'd much rather it was Flybe as I prefer them and the Q400 to an ATR.

I think I've come across that preference in some other place.

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Old 8th Sep 2022, 10:53
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A Q400 says it will get you there, an ATR will get you there, all be it a bit slower a bid louder 😆
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Old 8th Sep 2022, 11:01
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The ATR is a little slower, but over the Irish Sea it's not a huge difference, however the assertion the Q400 is quieter ... couldn't be more wrong. The new ATR-600s have the most comfortable and quiet cabin in the 70 seat-ish seat turboprop class ... it's a remarkably comfortable aircraft for the passenger. The Q400 is a bit of a misnomer as it's loud!
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Old 8th Sep 2022, 11:06
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Originally Posted by airsouthwest View Post
I do find it a bit strange that Aer Lingus doesn't want them to operate back at Cork like they did pre Covid as there routes always used to be quite busy to Bristol, Birmingham etc,. It's certainly not something that's going to be sustainable with a 189 seater 737 by Ryanair but I'm sure a fountain of knowledge will tell me otherwise. Although I'd much rather it was Flybe as I prefer them and the Q400 to an ATR.
The initial routes leaked on Twitter did suggest that ORK was included in the plans. I think it was BHX, BRS and GLA based on the tweet. At the time FR had already stolen a march on the rest of the EIR routes from Cork. This winter they are offering Birmingham (5x), Edinburgh(7x), Liverpool (5x), Gatwick (7x), Luton(5x), Stansted (18x), Manchester (14x) and Newcastle (2x). BRS and GLA are the losers here, but with a daily 738 to EDI, thats probably adequate, BHX has also taken a big capacity and schedule hit compared to the EIR days. But FR do have LTN and STN on their network, which EI didn't.
Would it be worth Emerald's time to base a single ATR at Cork to serve the likes of EMA, LBA, GLA, BRS and CWL? Without a trunk route like BHX or MAN, Im not sure they could make it work?

​​​​​​​I imagine their focus will be on buying a reliable operation at DUB and doing their best to defend against flyBE at BHD for the foreseeable. Why draw Ryanair on themselves at ORK?
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Old 8th Sep 2022, 15:45
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Why would Emerald go against Flybe, when the same company owns Exeter Aerospace and Flybe is one of their biggest customers? Remember Emeralds owner main business is MRO not airline.
They're already knocking lumps out of each other in Belfast City?!!
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Old 8th Sep 2022, 16:09
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Originally Posted by airsouthwest View Post
Why would Emerald go against Flybe, when the same company owns Exeter Aerospace and Flybe is one of their biggest customers? Remember Emeralds owner main business is MRO not airline.
Alternatively, why would Flybe go against Emerald. Ownership is academic - Flybe are owned by venture capitalists. I donít see Emeralds owners are in this for something to do in their spare time.
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Old 8th Sep 2022, 20:52
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Originally Posted by oapilot View Post
Alternatively, why would Flybe go against Emerald. Ownership is academic - Flybe are owned by venture capitalists. I donít see Emeralds owners are in this for something to do in their spare time.
Also donít forget these are really IAG routes from Belfast.

Currently operated by Emerald Airways, previously operated by Stobart Air, and after their demise jointly by Aer Lingus mainline and BA Cityflyer pending Emerald getting going. Emerald and Flybeís ownership are secondary to the fact that itís a franchise operation for Aer Lingus that pre-dates the formation of Emerald.
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Old 9th Sep 2022, 19:14
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Originally Posted by airsouthwest View Post
Very good point. Likewise I would say Flybe don't want to go up against Emerald which is why they aren't competing with that on that many routes. Cyrus have experience across the world at starting and operating airlines. I would imagine their long term goal will be to expand the airline, grow the business and eventually look to sell it on.
You must be having a laugh! Have you seen how many routes theyíre competing on at Belfast City? I make it six for now Ö thatís a head on fight in anyoneís book, surely ?
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Old 9th Sep 2022, 20:45
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Emerald are to launch their own handling agent at Dublin Airport in the coming months. It is believed that the reason for this is to offset the lack of staff and corresponding delays their current handling agent has encountered this summer.

CP.
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Old 9th Sep 2022, 22:41
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Sorry but suggesting Emerald is aimed more at business types on loyalty schemes is
misleading. Those are competitve advantages but they're both going after the same market, make no mistake. It's like say BA and easyJet go after different markets out of LGW, they really don't. Flybe are not aiming to be COMPLIMENTARY in markets where there's likely only room for one....
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Old 9th Sep 2022, 23:43
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Originally Posted by airsouthwest View Post

There was also going to be a crossover in routes an like others have said how much influence does Emerald actually have on the route network for it's Aer Lingus franchise? Probably not a lot.
As a franchise, I doubt Aer Lingus have little if any control over the routes that Emerald choose. I would expect that the only veto EI have is if Emerald wanted to operate on existing EI
routes, compete directly with EI mainline. If you were Emerald you wouldnít limit your business opportunities by allowing EI that level of control unless they had some form of ownership, surely?

The whole point of a franchise is that the operating business carries the risk for the operation but pays a proportion of revenue to the brand holder for services such as reservations and customer service. At least thatís my experience. The brand holder has very limited control as that would be seen as anti-competitive.

The fight between Flybe and Emerald is just that. Iíd be astonished if Aer Lingus opened a cheque book in support if Emerald needed it and it would be very hard to believe that theyíd bail out any of Emeralds losses in BHD, after all, they certainly didnít help Stobart.
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 04:06
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Yes and no about Emerald - a lot of the routes are ones deemed too thin for an A320, and EI's publicly stated intention when creating EIR was to grow markets to a point.where EI could take them over and provide additional frequency on some routes - a lot of the aim is transatlantic feed and that's directly a requirement of EI.

You have to remember the BE brand was on these BHD routes way back, it's really well known here and they're basically only trying to take back the same business they had previously - IAG came in new to the routes as a result of BE going bust. Also BE historically had for instance 7x daily rotations BHD to BHX and MAN, so adding what they have now + EIR really only adds up to the same or less frequency/capacity - it's not perhaps the dog fight it's being made out to be.
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 10:51
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Except that the working model.of people attending meetings face to face has changed dramatically but operating flights to same place 5 or ten minutes apart just splits the load and does not add anything to flexibility when travelling but basically your point is well taken
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 11:28
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Originally Posted by Alteagod View Post
Except that the working model.of people attending meetings face to face has changed dramatically but operating flights to same place 5 or ten minutes apart just splits the load and does not add anything to flexibility when travelling but basically your point is well taken
I agree about timings and business travel. In terms of demand there's been a lot of pent up travel wants during covid that have spurred it on, not sure how long that will last for.
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 11:49
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whatís left for Emerald to cover from UK-Ireland?
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 14:31
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Originally Posted by VickersVicount View Post
whatís left for Emerald to cover from UK-Ireland?
LHR possibly, if the rumours of the EI Crew Base closure & dropping of the LHR service are true?
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 18:57
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Debate getting more hilarious. With fuel prices where they are, a half full E175 will be costing whomever is footing the bill dearly.
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 19:29
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Originally Posted by VickersVicount View Post
whatís left for Emerald to cover from UK-Ireland?


dont think any of the ATR operation has resumed @ ORK

cs
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Old 11th Sep 2022, 09:04
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Originally Posted by cornishsimon View Post
dont think any of the ATR operation has resumed @ ORK

cs
Ryanair appear to be doing well on the MAN and BHX services and picking up EDI. With NCL slated to start from 30 October, there is little of the old EIR network from Cork left to reinstate. With the main ‘trunk routes’ now with FR, I would be surprised to see them return there and if they do, it will have a hard job.
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