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Quarantine if you arrive from Spain from midnight 25/7/2020

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Quarantine if you arrive from Spain from midnight 25/7/2020

Old 31st Jul 2020, 09:06
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Originally Posted by AirportPlanner1 View Post
So let me get this right, it does in Luton based on a list of postcodes so therefore it does across the whole of Greater Manchester along with various relatively nearby areas? Please tell me how you arrived at that conclusion
The Muslim Council of Great Britain have said it would have a major impact on the affected Muslim population due to Eid. Clearly many were planning to spend the day in each other’s homes.

I don’t know the ins and out of the religion but I assume this is like being told Christmas dinner has been cancelled.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 09:18
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DavidReidUK

I assumed that the link you gave would take me to a government website for the full details but it's actually a story by Simon Calder in The Independent. He normally knows his stuff but he doesn't explain how you would legally get to your UK departure airport for the "city break to Rome" without breaking the self-isolation rules, let alone boarding the aircraft.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 09:31
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Originally Posted by AirportPlanner1 View Post
So let me get this right, it does in Luton based on a list of postcodes so therefore it does across the whole of Greater Manchester along with various relatively nearby areas? Please tell me how you arrived at that conclusion
One assumes that the Government Does not want to be seen to be targeting a specific community for fear of stoking racial tensions which is why whole geographical areas are being included such as the whole of Greater Manchester in the same way that the whole of Leicester was targeted when the infection rise was only really concentrated within in a specific community.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 09:48
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Originally Posted by Expressflight View Post
DavidReidUK

I assumed that the link you gave would take me to a government website for the full details but it's actually a story by Simon Calder in The Independent. He normally knows his stuff but he doesn't explain how you would legally get to your UK departure airport for the "city break to Rome" without breaking the self-isolation rules, let alone boarding the aircraft.
The Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel) (England) Regulations 2020:

PART 2
Obligations on persons arriving in England and others

4. Requirement to self-isolate

(7) [a person] must, on their arrival in England, travel directly to the place at which they are to self-isolate, and must then self-isolate until whichever is the earlier of—

(a) the end of the 14th day after the day on which they arrive in the common travel area, or

(b) their departure from England.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 10:44
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Originally Posted by The96er View Post
One assumes that the Government Does not want to be seen to be targeting a specific community for fear of stoking racial tensions which is why whole geographical areas are being included such as the whole of Greater Manchester in the same way that the whole of Leicester was targeted when the infection rise was only really concentrated within in a specific community.
and don't want to highlight the common factor of poverty.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 11:01
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Well given that the Labour Mayor of Greater Manchester, Andy Burnham, is fully supportive of the Governments actions and not jumping on the communications issues shows that the rest of Labour are is very telling. And let's face it he is not normally shy of jumping on a bandwagon.

Sometimes, an 80% solution is better than a committee meeting.
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Old 1st Aug 2020, 09:58
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Dave, Looking at the legislation you posted, and thanks for that,

My understanding is that UNLESS : 3) P must self-isolate—
(a)unless sub-paragraph (b) or (c) applies—
(i)in the case of a person described in paragraph (1)(a), at an address specified in P’s Passenger Locator Form as the intended place of self-isolation, as required by regulation 3 and paragraph 2(a) of Schedule 1,
(ii)in the case of a person described in paragraph (1)(b), or a person described in paragraph 1 of Schedule 2 (other than one described in paragraph (13)(a)(i)), at a place at which they intend to self-isolate while in England,
(iii)where it is not possible for P to self-isolate in accordance with paragraph (i) or (ii), in accommodation facilitated by the Secretary of State for the purposes of P’s self-isolation,
(b)where P is an asylum seeker, in accommodation provided or arranged under section 4, 95 or 98 of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999(3),
(c)where P is a person described in paragraph 9(1) of Schedule 10 to the Immigration Act 2016 (powers of Secretary of State to enable person to meet bail conditions), in accommodation provided or arranged under that paragraph.

So the section 7 B applies to these people, all others must self isolate

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Old 1st Aug 2020, 12:13
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Cases of Covid in last 14 days per 100,000 population in Spain is now double that of Portugal
Source - ECDC
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Old 1st Aug 2020, 12:31
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I've just returned from a week in Tenerife so now have to quarantine for 14 days, being a retiree this is not too much of an issue for me.
I felt far safer in Tenerife than I do back in the UK. Resorts quiet, wall to wall sunshine (Vitamin D), spending most of my waking day outdoors either going for a run and/or imbibing or dining at a local hostelry, using the stairs at my hotel (as opposed to lifts) which are on the exterior of the building and therefore open to fresh air as were the walkways to one's room. My observation is that Spanish are rigorous in their application of the rules and I noticed one case where the local police swiftly picked up on someone not wearing a mask when legally required (the miscreant was Spanish by the way).
I seriously considered staying longer but given the (very) remote chance that Spain might lockdown again I didn't really want to get stuck there. Whilst many Spaniards living in mainland Spain do visit the islands in August one presumes those living in areas where there are local lockdowns cannot go out?

Cases of Covid in last 14 days per 100,000 population in Spain is now double that of Portugal
Source - ECDC
Spain are detecting new cases of Covid. Their infection totals include both those who have it and those who have antibodies for it so have presumably had it in the past and recovered?


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Old 1st Aug 2020, 12:49
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Spain has been including antibody-positives in their totals for some time, since before the recent rise in cases.
BTW I read that many of the new infections in France are in tourist areas.
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Old 1st Aug 2020, 14:14
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Originally Posted by fireflybob View Post
I felt far safer in Tenerife than I do back in the UK.
There is an argument that those that feel safe don’t always follow social distancing and hand washing while those that perceive danger take more precautions.

Interesting piece on the BBC web site where they quote a father on holiday with his wife and 3 children. He also said he felt safe so was practicing no social distancing with other families staying at the same apartment complex as it would be hard for his children.

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Old 1st Aug 2020, 14:20
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There is an argument that those that feel safe don’t always follow social distancing and hand washing while those that perceive danger take more precautions.
Well that's not me! I think some people will disregard sensible precautions irrespective of how one attempts to motivate them.
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Old 1st Aug 2020, 14:25
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There are some huge differences between the regions in Spain. 14 day rate for the Canary islands is about 5.8 and South Tenerife has not had any positive cases for over 30 days. There has been no deaths in the Canary islands for 6 weeks. The Spanish PM has ruled out a second national lockdown and would rather let individual regions impose restrictions as they see fit.
Asking returnees from the islands (Canary & Balearics) to quarantine is not based on the science/medical facts. Unfortunately the UK Government is afraid to admit they got it wrong and will probably wait a week or two to safe face before reversing their decision.
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Old 1st Aug 2020, 17:01
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There are some huge differences between the regions of the UK also. In England, the data from Public Health England for last week for all 315 districts shows only 2 have an infection rate greater than Spain's average of 60.2/100k persons, and 213 districts have an infection rate less than that of the Canary Islands and 15 of these having zero infection rates. So yes, it looks to me that the UK decisions are based on science/medical facts.

However clearly the UK position on quarantine is based on more than just the most recent infection rates, and probably includes the current trajectory of the rate. The UK rate has been about the same each week for the last 5 weeks, while Spain's has increased by a factor of 5 (from 10.6/100k for the period 20 June to 4 July, when it was comparable to the UK's, to today's figure of 60.2/100k.
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Old 1st Aug 2020, 17:29
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Originally Posted by davidjohnson6 View Post
Cases of Covid in last 14 days per 100,000 population in Spain is now double that of Portugal
Source - ECDC
Again, the number of cases is meaningless if you do not know the number of tests. I am much more worried by the number of deaths in Portugal (0.5) and UK (1.3, only Romania is higher in EU/EEA & UK) than in Spain (0.1).

.
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Old 1st Aug 2020, 17:30
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roger4 do you know where the Canary islands are? The UK is close to mainland Spain that the Canary islands. If they were a designated country then they would be exempt from quarantine. Therefore the reason for quarantining becomes political rather than science. I have no issue with mainland Spain being quarantined. Do the UK government expect someone to fly 2 hours in the wrong direction just to avoid quarantine NO, they would just drive 2hours from Barcelona to France and fly from there.
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Old 1st Aug 2020, 17:54
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Playamar2 - of course I do, having been there a number of times: a fantastic holiday destination. But the fact remains that 2/3rds of England's districts have current infection rates less than that of the Canary Islands.

All decisions made by Governments are political, I am merely expressing the opinion that in my view the decision is backed by the scientific data. I respect your right to disagree.

I agree that those who are determined may well be able to find ways to avoid the UK 14-day quarantine, subject to the risk of a £1000 fine if they get caught.

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Old 1st Aug 2020, 23:25
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Originally Posted by Kirks gusset View Post
Dave, Looking at the legislation you posted, and thanks for that,

My understanding is that UNLESS : 3) P must self-isolate—
(a)unless sub-paragraph (b) or (c) applies—
(i)in the case of a person described in paragraph (1)(a), at an address specified in P’s Passenger Locator Form as the intended place of self-isolation, as required by regulation 3 and paragraph 2(a) of Schedule 1,
(ii)in the case of a person described in paragraph (1)(b), or a person described in paragraph 1 of Schedule 2 (other than one described in paragraph (13)(a)(i)), at a place at which they intend to self-isolate while in England,
(iii)where it is not possible for P to self-isolate in accordance with paragraph (i) or (ii), in accommodation facilitated by the Secretary of State for the purposes of P’s self-isolation,
(b)where P is an asylum seeker, in accommodation provided or arranged under section 4, 95 or 98 of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999(3),
(c)where P is a person described in paragraph 9(1) of Schedule 10 to the Immigration Act 2016 (powers of Secretary of State to enable person to meet bail conditions), in accommodation provided or arranged under that paragraph.

So the section 7 B applies to these people, all others must self isolate
That's a very strange interpretation of what is a fairly straightforward regulation. Section 7 makes no distinction between whom 7(a) and 7(b) applies to, hence its use of "whichever is earlier".

Anyone who is obliged to self-isolate must do so for 14 days, unless they leave England before the 14 days is up. It's that simple.
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 11:22
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To get an idea of the consequences, have a look at flightradar24. Ten days ago, probably more than half of the flights towards the Canaries were from or to UK airports. Now, there are hardly any - and the total number of airborne aircraft between Portugal and the Canaries is at best half of what it used to be a mere week ago. Good illustration why the difference between the coordinated measures and the uncoordinated measures scenarios calculated by Eurocontrol is so significant.
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 16:56
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Requirement to self-isolate

4.—(1) This regulation applies where a person (“P”)—
(a)arrives in England from outside the common travel area, or
(b)arrives in England from within the common travel area, and has at any time in the period beginning with the 14th day before the date of their arrival in England, been outside the common travel area.
(2) P must remain in isolation from others (“self-isolate”) in accordance with this regulation.
(3) P must self-isolate—
(a)unless sub-paragraph (b) or (c) applies—
(i)in the case of a person described in paragraph (1)(a), at an address specified in P’s Passenger Locator Form as the intended place of self-isolation, as required by regulation 3 and paragraph 2(a) of Schedule 1,
(ii)in the case of a person described in paragraph (1)(b), or a person described in paragraph 1 of Schedule 2 (other than one described in paragraph (13)(a)(i)), at a place at which they intend to self-isolate while in England,
(iii)where it is not possible for P to self-isolate in accordance with paragraph (i) or (ii), in accommodation facilitated by the Secretary of State for the purposes of P’s self-isolation,
(b)where P is an asylum seeker, in accommodation provided or arranged under section 4, 95 or 98 of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999(3),
(c)where P is a person described in paragraph 9(1) of Schedule 10 to the Immigration Act 2016 (powers of Secretary of State to enable person to meet bail conditions), in accommodation provided or arranged under that paragraph.
(4) The address specified by P in the Passenger Locator Form as the intended place of self-isolation must be—
(a)their home,
(b)the home of a friend or family member, or
(c)a hotel, hostel, bed and breakfast accommodation, or other suitable place.
(5) More than one address may be specified in the Passenger Locator Form where—
(a)a legal obligation requires P to change addresses, or
(b)it is necessary for P to stay overnight at an address on their arrival in England before travelling directly to another address at which they will be self-isolating.
(6) In paragraph (3)(a)(ii) “a place at which they intend to self-isolate while in England” means—
(a)where the person has completed a Passenger Locator Form, at an intended place of self-isolation specified in that form,
(b)where the person has completed a form equivalent to a Passenger Locator Form pursuant to an enactment in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland, at an intended place of self-isolation specified in that form,
(c)in any other case at a place described in paragraph (4)(a) to (c).
(7) P must, on their arrival in England, travel directly to the place at which they are to self-isolate, and must then self-isolate until whichever is the earlier of—
(a)the end of the 14th day after the day on which they arrive in the common travel area, or
(b)their departure from England.
Any other options? If I read the legislation, starting strangely at the top ,and work down I still come to the same conclusion, that the quarantine period would only end earlier than if the person left the UK as a falling under the category sub para b or c section 4.3. a and were "removed" from the UK
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