Isle of Man-2
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More than likely there was a subsidy but the point is they had the flexibility to do it and ensure the island had some sort of service . Similarly BA into London City /Heathrow. I can’t see EasyJet would have provided any form of service subsidy or no subsidy !
Join Date: May 2008
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Agree with all you say. The difference is that Loganair is more of the 'old fashioned' carrier that realises it has a responsibility to the communities it serves, no doubt influenced by its services to the Scottish isles and other isolated airports, while easyJet has no responsibility but to itself. The responsibilities of a common carrier toward the community used to be enshrined in law. But that all appears to have been forgotten in the mad dash toward "deregulation" (whatever that means). And in the end, customers (excepting those for which price is everything) have a very long memory. So of the two airlines, which do you suppose has displayed the smarter marketing strategy?
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It was a joint decision insofar as the government were involved, who put it to easyJet that IOM borders are staying closed except for transiting key workers and exceptional cases. Hardly the stuff of an 80% load factor, even on an A319.
Join Date: May 2011
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Agree with all you say. The difference is that Loganair is more of the 'old fashioned' carrier that realises it has a responsibility to the communities it serves, no doubt influenced by its services to the Scottish isles and other isolated airports, while easyJet has no responsibility but to itself. The responsibilities of a common carrier toward the community used to be enshrined in law. But that all appears to have been forgotten in the mad dash toward "deregulation" (whatever that means). And in the end, customers (excepting those for which price is everything) have a very long memory. So of the two airlines, which do you suppose has displayed the smarter marketing strategy?
The problem they have is that due to the somewhat corrosive conditions of the air at the airport on those vintage E135/145's, they're swapping frames out every day or so via the ABZ-MAN flight. Whole different kettle of fish when you have a proper base that they'll have to give those considerations to.
Loganair saw an 'in' to the IOM after the BE collapse and took it. It's being heavily subsidised - HEAVILY - to keep those routes going. Now the patient transfer contract is up for tender, it's anyone's game. Whoever gets the PTS contract will take on the routes, that's an inevitability. I've no doubt that Loganair will expect their supposed 'goodwill' to be viewed favourably, but I understand that they aren't neccessarily considered the favoured option.
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And the reason easyJet didn't get those subsidies on routes it already served? Both airlines are businesses, but customers with any intelligence at all realise that a product offering is something more than simple arithmetic. If I had to choose between the two carriers operating on the same route and similar timings I know which I would choose, and it wouldn't be easyJet. Who eventually gets the PTS contract is a matter of speculation at this point and may well involve a third airline.
Join Date: May 2015
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I maintain my view that EasyJet has a role but that it must not be seen as the only answer in any way shape or form . However if we continue in the way we are going it will be and that will be a disaster !
Join Date: Aug 2019
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Rubbish. It's a business. Most of its' 'lifeline' Scottish routes are subsidised by the devolved Government. If it wasn't for that, they wouldn't do it for the good of it. Likewise here with their routes on the Island.
The problem they have is that due to the somewhat corrosive conditions of the air at the airport on those vintage E135/145's, they're swapping frames out every day or so via the ABZ-MAN flight. Whole different kettle of fish when you have a proper base that they'll have to give those considerations to.
The problem they have is that due to the somewhat corrosive conditions of the air at the airport on those vintage E135/145's, they're swapping frames out every day or so via the ABZ-MAN flight. Whole different kettle of fish when you have a proper base that they'll have to give those considerations to.
The comment about the reason for 145s swapping every day is complete and utter tosh. There is a planned changeover every day as there is currently no Embraer 145 maintenance cover in IOM, unlike for the ATR which lives there and is maintained there, so swapping aircraft and crews from ABZ every day rotates both the aircraft and crews. There is some 145 cover going into place in IOM shortly so there will still be aircraft swaps but not daily.
Hardly any of the Scottish routes are subsidised. The Twin Otter and Islander services are, as is Dundee-London and Stornoway-Benbecula under PSOs for which anyone can bid. For the rest of the routes, if Loganair carries no passengers, it has no income.
You're just making this stuff up.
Join Date: May 2011
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Is there a reason for these ongoing anti-Loganair outpourings based on factually incorrect information?
The comment about the reason for 145s swapping every day is complete and utter tosh. There is a planned changeover every day as there is currently no Embraer 145 maintenance cover in IOM, unlike for the ATR which lives there and is maintained there, so swapping aircraft and crews from ABZ every day rotates both the aircraft and crews. There is some 145 cover going into place in IOM shortly so there will still be aircraft swaps but not daily.
Hardly any of the Scottish routes are subsidised. The Twin Otter and Islander services are, as is Dundee-London and Stornoway-Benbecula under PSOs for which anyone can bid. For the rest of the routes, if Loganair carries no passengers, it has no income.
You're just making this stuff up.
The comment about the reason for 145s swapping every day is complete and utter tosh. There is a planned changeover every day as there is currently no Embraer 145 maintenance cover in IOM, unlike for the ATR which lives there and is maintained there, so swapping aircraft and crews from ABZ every day rotates both the aircraft and crews. There is some 145 cover going into place in IOM shortly so there will still be aircraft swaps but not daily.
Hardly any of the Scottish routes are subsidised. The Twin Otter and Islander services are, as is Dundee-London and Stornoway-Benbecula under PSOs for which anyone can bid. For the rest of the routes, if Loganair carries no passengers, it has no income.
You're just making this stuff up.
In other news, Aurigny CEO on the Island meeting with Gov today to convince them to buy-in to Aurigny. They want to base aircraft here and serve LPL, MAN & LGW. Time will tell what the outcome of that is.
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However LM have said that the numbers on their flights are currently uneconomic and they are looking for further support to maintain routes which did not previously require a PSO subsidy. They've suggested dropping APD for a year.
Join Date: Aug 2019
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I mean, that information came from the powers that be at the airport, so what do you expect me to think? They're lying? If you read what I said, we were talking about 'lifeline' Scottish routes, which are subsidised.
Four routes out of probably 25 or 30 within Scotland are subsidised - haven't counted the Islander services within that. Many in the islands consider every route they've got as a lifeline.
Join Date: May 2011
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The difference is that Loganair is more of the 'old fashioned' carrier that realises it has a responsibility to the communities it serves, no doubt influenced by its services to the Scottish isles and other isolated airports, while easyJet has no responsibility but to itself.
My point is very much - Loganair is a business. If it wasn't for subsidy, it wouldn't be serving the very communities it supposedly 'cares' about. Although the ramblings about Laxey tartan going on a tail was most exciting.
Regarding swapping out of aircraft, if the airport are speaking to industry like that's a reason they're struggling to attract truly based operator then that's an airport issue.
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In other news, Aurigny CEO on the Island meeting with Gov today to convince them to buy-in to Aurigny. They want to base aircraft here and serve LPL, MAN & LGW. Time will tell what the outcome of that is.[/QUOTE]
Its a very interesting idea. However I don’t think LGW is the answer for London something more convenient providing quicker access into the heart of London such as LCY or LHR is needed in addition to EasyJet operating out of LGW .
Its a very interesting idea. However I don’t think LGW is the answer for London something more convenient providing quicker access into the heart of London such as LCY or LHR is needed in addition to EasyJet operating out of LGW .
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Most of its' 'lifeline' Scottish routes are subsidised by the devolved Government.
And yes Loganair is a business, but one that has a more social and community character to it than many.
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What would be the point of another operator flying to Gatwick in direct competition to easyJet but without the ability to keep fares at the same level without a presumably very large subsidy?
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Funnily the phrase I heard this morning was 'Aurigny makes more sense because they don't have to worry about making a profit'. It's scary.
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To have a guarantee that an outfit like easyJet do not close shop whenever it pleases them, leaving the islanders with no option at all?