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Isle of Man-2

Old 23rd Jul 2020, 21:54
  #501 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pabely View Post
Easyjet have never had A318s, are you thinking of BAs one which does (pre CV-19) LCY > NYC, now that has very nice seats and cabin space, oops about £4500 one way fare though!
Sorry it was a typo Airbus 320 !
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Old 24th Jul 2020, 02:17
  #502 (permalink)  
 
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Were Loganair not subsidised to be operating the lifeline LPL / MAN routes? I doubt they would have been operating at a loss for 3 months otherwise....
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Old 24th Jul 2020, 04:32
  #503 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sarnold View Post
Were Loganair not subsidised to be operating the lifeline LPL / MAN routes? I doubt they would have been operating at a loss for 3 months otherwise....
More than likely there was a subsidy but the point is they had the flexibility to do it and ensure the island had some sort of service . Similarly BA into London City /Heathrow. I canít see EasyJet would have provided any form of service subsidy or no subsidy !
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Old 24th Jul 2020, 07:12
  #504 (permalink)  
 
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Agree with all you say. The difference is that Loganair is more of the 'old fashioned' carrier that realises it has a responsibility to the communities it serves, no doubt influenced by its services to the Scottish isles and other isolated airports, while easyJet has no responsibility but to itself. The responsibilities of a common carrier toward the community used to be enshrined in law. But that all appears to have been forgotten in the mad dash toward "deregulation" (whatever that means). And in the end, customers (excepting those for which price is everything) have a very long memory. So of the two airlines, which do you suppose has displayed the smarter marketing strategy?
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Old 24th Jul 2020, 07:15
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easyJet were keen to begin flights on the 15th June but following conversation with the IOM government they decided not too.... it was a joint decision
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Old 24th Jul 2020, 07:17
  #506 (permalink)  
 
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It was a joint decision insofar as the government were involved, who put it to easyJet that IOM borders are staying closed except for transiting key workers and exceptional cases. Hardly the stuff of an 80% load factor, even on an A319.
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Old 24th Jul 2020, 07:35
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Someone always has to pay. Why should other easy passengers have to subsidise a loss making service. A consequence of lack of marketscale.
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Old 24th Jul 2020, 07:40
  #508 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by M-JCS View Post
Agree with all you say. The difference is that Loganair is more of the 'old fashioned' carrier that realises it has a responsibility to the communities it serves, no doubt influenced by its services to the Scottish isles and other isolated airports, while easyJet has no responsibility but to itself. The responsibilities of a common carrier toward the community used to be enshrined in law. But that all appears to have been forgotten in the mad dash toward "deregulation" (whatever that means). And in the end, customers (excepting those for which price is everything) have a very long memory. So of the two airlines, which do you suppose has displayed the smarter marketing strategy?
Rubbish. It's a business. Most of its' 'lifeline' Scottish routes are subsidised by the devolved Government. If it wasn't for that, they wouldn't do it for the good of it. Likewise here with their routes on the Island.

The problem they have is that due to the somewhat corrosive conditions of the air at the airport on those vintage E135/145's, they're swapping frames out every day or so via the ABZ-MAN flight. Whole different kettle of fish when you have a proper base that they'll have to give those considerations to.

Loganair saw an 'in' to the IOM after the BE collapse and took it. It's being heavily subsidised - HEAVILY - to keep those routes going. Now the patient transfer contract is up for tender, it's anyone's game. Whoever gets the PTS contract will take on the routes, that's an inevitability. I've no doubt that Loganair will expect their supposed 'goodwill' to be viewed favourably, but I understand that they aren't neccessarily considered the favoured option.
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Old 24th Jul 2020, 07:51
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And the reason easyJet didn't get those subsidies on routes it already served? Both airlines are businesses, but customers with any intelligence at all realise that a product offering is something more than simple arithmetic. If I had to choose between the two carriers operating on the same route and similar timings I know which I would choose, and it wouldn't be easyJet. Who eventually gets the PTS contract is a matter of speculation at this point and may well involve a third airline.
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Old 24th Jul 2020, 08:50
  #510 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
Someone always has to pay. Why should other easy passengers have to subsidise a loss making service. A consequence of lack of marketscale.
Maybe itís because we live on an island and having some form of connectivity is Ďhelpful Ď for getting off the island . Ask those that have had to go to the North West for hospital treatment in the last 3 months what they think .

I maintain my view that EasyJet has a role but that it must not be seen as the only answer in any way shape or form . However if we continue in the way we are going it will be and that will be a disaster !
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Old 24th Jul 2020, 09:09
  #511 (permalink)  
 
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Rubbish. It's a business. Most of its' 'lifeline' Scottish routes are subsidised by the devolved Government. If it wasn't for that, they wouldn't do it for the good of it. Likewise here with their routes on the Island.

The problem they have is that due to the somewhat corrosive conditions of the air at the airport on those vintage E135/145's, they're swapping frames out every day or so via the ABZ-MAN flight. Whole different kettle of fish when you have a proper base that they'll have to give those considerations to.
Is there a reason for these ongoing anti-Loganair outpourings based on factually incorrect information?

The comment about the reason for 145s swapping every day is complete and utter tosh. There is a planned changeover every day as there is currently no Embraer 145 maintenance cover in IOM, unlike for the ATR which lives there and is maintained there, so swapping aircraft and crews from ABZ every day rotates both the aircraft and crews. There is some 145 cover going into place in IOM shortly so there will still be aircraft swaps but not daily.

Hardly any of the Scottish routes are subsidised. The Twin Otter and Islander services are, as is Dundee-London and Stornoway-Benbecula under PSOs for which anyone can bid. For the rest of the routes, if Loganair carries no passengers, it has no income.

You're just making this stuff up.

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Old 24th Jul 2020, 09:21
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Originally Posted by Saabdriver1 View Post
Is there a reason for these ongoing anti-Loganair outpourings based on factually incorrect information?

The comment about the reason for 145s swapping every day is complete and utter tosh. There is a planned changeover every day as there is currently no Embraer 145 maintenance cover in IOM, unlike for the ATR which lives there and is maintained there, so swapping aircraft and crews from ABZ every day rotates both the aircraft and crews. There is some 145 cover going into place in IOM shortly so there will still be aircraft swaps but not daily.

Hardly any of the Scottish routes are subsidised. The Twin Otter and Islander services are, as is Dundee-London and Stornoway-Benbecula under PSOs for which anyone can bid. For the rest of the routes, if Loganair carries no passengers, it has no income.

You're just making this stuff up.
I mean, that information came from the powers that be at the airport, so what do you expect me to think? They're lying? If you read what I said, we were talking about 'lifeline' Scottish routes, which are subsidised.

In other news, Aurigny CEO on the Island meeting with Gov today to convince them to buy-in to Aurigny. They want to base aircraft here and serve LPL, MAN & LGW. Time will tell what the outcome of that is.
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Old 24th Jul 2020, 09:24
  #513 (permalink)  
 
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However LM have said that the numbers on their flights are currently uneconomic and they are looking for further support to maintain routes which did not previously require a PSO subsidy. They've suggested dropping APD for a year.
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Old 24th Jul 2020, 09:31
  #514 (permalink)  
 
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I mean, that information came from the powers that be at the airport, so what do you expect me to think? They're lying? If you read what I said, we were talking about 'lifeline' Scottish routes, which are subsidised.
Either which way, it's not true.....

Four routes out of probably 25 or 30 within Scotland are subsidised - haven't counted the Islander services within that. Many in the islands consider every route they've got as a lifeline.
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Old 24th Jul 2020, 09:38
  #515 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Saabdriver1 View Post
Either which way, it's not true.....

Four routes out of probably 25 or 30 within Scotland are subsidised - haven't counted the Islander services within that. Many in the islands consider every route they've got as a lifeline.
Please do read back through the context of my original post on this. It was in response to:
The difference is that Loganair is more of the 'old fashioned' carrier that realises it has a responsibility to the communities it serves, no doubt influenced by its services to the Scottish isles and other isolated airports, while easyJet has no responsibility but to itself.


My point is very much - Loganair is a business. If it wasn't for subsidy, it wouldn't be serving the very communities it supposedly 'cares' about. Although the ramblings about Laxey tartan going on a tail was most exciting.

Regarding swapping out of aircraft, if the airport are speaking to industry like that's a reason they're struggling to attract truly based operator then that's an airport issue.
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Old 24th Jul 2020, 09:54
  #516 (permalink)  
 
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In other news, Aurigny CEO on the Island meeting with Gov today to convince them to buy-in to Aurigny. They want to base aircraft here and serve LPL, MAN & LGW. Time will tell what the outcome of that is.[/QUOTE]

Its a very interesting idea. However I donít think LGW is the answer for London something more convenient providing quicker access into the heart of London such as LCY or LHR is needed in addition to EasyJet operating out of LGW .
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Old 24th Jul 2020, 09:59
  #517 (permalink)  
 
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Most of its' 'lifeline' Scottish routes are subsidised by the devolved Government.
If the definition of a lifeline route is that it's a PSO, then all of them are subsidised. The other routes aren't but many are seen as lifelines.

And yes Loganair is a business, but one that has a more social and community character to it than many.

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Old 24th Jul 2020, 10:01
  #518 (permalink)  
 
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What would be the point of another operator flying to Gatwick in direct competition to easyJet but without the ability to keep fares at the same level without a presumably very large subsidy?
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Old 24th Jul 2020, 10:03
  #519 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Albert Hall View Post
What would be the point of another operator flying to Gatwick in direct competition to easyJet but without the ability to keep fares at the same level without a presumably very large subsidy?
Funnily the phrase I heard this morning was 'Aurigny makes more sense because they don't have to worry about making a profit'. It's scary.
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Old 24th Jul 2020, 10:10
  #520 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Albert Hall View Post
What would be the point of another operator flying to Gatwick in direct competition to easyJet but without the ability to keep fares at the same level without a presumably very large subsidy?
To have a guarantee that an outfit like easyJet do not close shop whenever it pleases them, leaving the islanders with no option at all?
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