Dundee-2
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,444
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From: UK
The lease on the DOT ATR that has been operating on behalf of Loganair for the last few months ends on 31st October. Loganair will from the 1st to the 14th November lease ATT42 from the GCI based Aurigny to operate the DND-STN route. Loganair will then use a SF3 between the 15th November and 20th December.
Does anyone know what the loads have been like on the route since the ATR has been operating it?
Does anyone know what the loads have been like on the route since the ATR has been operating it?
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 766
Likes: 1
From: scotland
With Loganair starting ops from Carlisle to Southend from June, would it make sense to move the DND-STN to SEN. Thus having all London flights consolidated at the one airport.
Southend is just as easy to get to Central London (Trains operate to Liverpool St as well)
Southend is just as easy to get to Central London (Trains operate to Liverpool St as well)
Joined: Apr 2003
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 10,588
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From: Northumberland
Does the PSO specify the destination airport?
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 766
Likes: 1
From: scotland
On the European Union website it lists, LHR, LGW, LCY, STN, LTN and SEN as options for the PSO.
Joined: Aug 2008
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Likes: 0
From: bishops stortford herts
But one worthwhile for connections to the general London area & perhaps even farther afield...Over 200 airline destinations from STN as example...2nd busiest coach station in the UK as another...
The PSO is conducted for the benefit of the passengers not the airline!...
However the contract must be well into the second & last year now so time will tell how it will evolve or not...
Ms Kelly may have to be consulted!!..
The PSO is conducted for the benefit of the passengers not the airline!...
However the contract must be well into the second & last year now so time will tell how it will evolve or not...
Ms Kelly may have to be consulted!!..
Joined: Apr 2010
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
Posts: 843
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From: London
Flew from Stansted to Dundee on Wednesday morning.
6 pax disembarked from the DND STN, 10 of us boarded northbound.
Back on Thursday evening - I think the plane sits on the apron all day after it's morning arrival - and about 15-20 pax boarded.
The number of passengers who argued with the airport staff about their luggage size... completely unaware that a Ryanair 737 is a different beast to a Saab 340! Yes - they name dropped!
Service was very nice - there was an unaccompanied passenger and Loganair were excellent with them.
But Stansted. Urgh.
It is much improved - the security queues are insane - although to their credit - they move really quite quickly.
It doesn't really matter if there are 200 destinations from Stansted - you're going to be left high and dry if Loganair are late (or indeed your inbound flight from one of the over 200 destinations)...
I do think Southend or London City would be better for Loganair, but I imagine Stansted is cheap.
6 pax disembarked from the DND STN, 10 of us boarded northbound.
Back on Thursday evening - I think the plane sits on the apron all day after it's morning arrival - and about 15-20 pax boarded.
The number of passengers who argued with the airport staff about their luggage size... completely unaware that a Ryanair 737 is a different beast to a Saab 340! Yes - they name dropped!
Service was very nice - there was an unaccompanied passenger and Loganair were excellent with them.
But Stansted. Urgh.
It is much improved - the security queues are insane - although to their credit - they move really quite quickly.
It doesn't really matter if there are 200 destinations from Stansted - you're going to be left high and dry if Loganair are late (or indeed your inbound flight from one of the over 200 destinations)...
I do think Southend or London City would be better for Loganair, but I imagine Stansted is cheap.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,444
Likes: 2
From: UK
I would have thought SEN would be cheaper to operate into than STN. Does anyone know if LM could switch LON airports easily if they wanted to under the current PSO agreement?.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,444
Likes: 2
From: UK
Another option could be to re-instate flighrs to AMS. If I recall loads and forward bookings on the route when BE operated it were good.
Last edited by BAladdy; 24th April 2018 at 04:56.
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 173
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From: Edinburgh
Last time I looked there was a nice big well-connected international airport just an hour's drive south, which is not only commercial but from where fares are one helluva lot cheaper. It's not as if Tayside is an island. Most land-based inhabitants find being within an hour or so catchment area of an international airport is not grounds for local subsidy.
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 154
Likes: 17
From: Scotland
Not a huge amount going on at Dundee these days, although the Stansted service now has a codeshare with Emirates which is good news. I note that the Stansted PSO will be up in March, so hopefully this will be renewed. Could we see Loganair will moving to Southend given that they will be flying there from Carlisle? (If that ever goes ahead!) Though of course, this would impact on the EK codeshare.
I note that the Tay Cities deal has included a £9.5 million investment in and around the airport. https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news...of-investment/
I guess part of this will include funding for the next PSO, but could we see any additional investment? Would be good to enhance radar coverage to encourage Flybe to bring back the Amsterdam route if they improve their financial situation.
I note that the Tay Cities deal has included a £9.5 million investment in and around the airport. https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news...of-investment/
£9.5 million investment from the Scottish Government in and around Dundee Airport. Aimed at improving aviation facilities within the region, improving air traffic control modernisation, securing/marketing new routes and enhancing airport facilities to support passenger growth. Also includes consideration of the “opportunities arising from the Heathrow expansion”. .
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 154
Likes: 17
From: Scotland
Dundee flights to Stansted could move to different London airport
Air links between London and Dundee could be set for a shake up after it emerged funding for the current Stansted route is only set to be available until later this year.
The Tele has learned Dundee City Council is willing to contribute money to keep flights between the city’s airport and London Stansted going until October 31.
The local authority has pledged £145,000 to support the route as part of a public service obligation (PSO) package agreed between itself, the Department for Transport, Transport Scotland and route operators Loganair.
The proposal was distributed to councillors ahead of a meeting last night and agreed upon without prior discussion. Those involved have declined to comment on what has been agreed.
However, the Tele understands the intention is to put the arrangement out to tender so another airport can make a bid.
A source said: “The idea seems to be to try to get somewhere other than Stansted.”
For the last two years, the PSO agreement has guaranteed £3.7 million of funding for the Dundee-London link.
The council contributed £400,000, with the Scottish and Westminster governments providing £1.8m and £1.4m apiece.
The funding runs dry at the end of this month – after which the new, shorter arrangement is likely to take over.
A Scottish Government spokesman said: “We are currently in discussions with Dundee City Council on the way forward for the Dundee-London public service obligation air link.”
A Department for Transport spokeswoman said: “The UK Government is in discussion with both Dundee City Council and the Scottish Government about the future of the Dundee-London route. There will be an update in due course.”
Loganair, which operates the route, and Highlands and Islands Airports Limited, which operates Dundee Airport, declined to comment.
The Tele has learned Dundee City Council is willing to contribute money to keep flights between the city’s airport and London Stansted going until October 31.
The local authority has pledged £145,000 to support the route as part of a public service obligation (PSO) package agreed between itself, the Department for Transport, Transport Scotland and route operators Loganair.
The proposal was distributed to councillors ahead of a meeting last night and agreed upon without prior discussion. Those involved have declined to comment on what has been agreed.
However, the Tele understands the intention is to put the arrangement out to tender so another airport can make a bid.
A source said: “The idea seems to be to try to get somewhere other than Stansted.”
For the last two years, the PSO agreement has guaranteed £3.7 million of funding for the Dundee-London link.
The council contributed £400,000, with the Scottish and Westminster governments providing £1.8m and £1.4m apiece.
The funding runs dry at the end of this month – after which the new, shorter arrangement is likely to take over.
A Scottish Government spokesman said: “We are currently in discussions with Dundee City Council on the way forward for the Dundee-London public service obligation air link.”
A Department for Transport spokeswoman said: “The UK Government is in discussion with both Dundee City Council and the Scottish Government about the future of the Dundee-London route. There will be an update in due course.”
Loganair, which operates the route, and Highlands and Islands Airports Limited, which operates Dundee Airport, declined to comment.
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 780
Likes: 78
From: Outer London
Is it to give flexibility to the PSO allowing Loganair to consolidate at SEN? Remember they’ll have SEN-ABZ, CAX, GLA + SYY with Dundee and Derry up the road at STN.
That said, STN offers the worldwide connections via EK.
That said, STN offers the worldwide connections via EK.