Edinburgh-3

[willy wombat]

The other disappointment was long wait (over 30 minutes) for first bag to arrive. Hope this was a “one off” as EDI used to be good at baggage.

[Plane mad 134]

Flybe have released phase 1 of their summer timetable it seems as though cardiff is going from 11x weekly to 17x weekly does anyone know of any other changes? Also Flybe may announce something when phase 2 is announced in a few weeks.

[Plane mad 134]

Hainan

Hainan are reducing service in W18 as the flights will stay 2 weekly on the Beijing - Edinburgh - Dublin - Beijing but the Beijing - Dublin - Edinburgh - Beijing is decreasing to 1 weekly, All flights on B787-8. This means there will only be a 3x weekly service in winter.

[VickersVicount]

Reductions in frequency and already? How long has the service been going?
Suppose a sensible reduction to see if theres any chance of it growing is better than canning it so early in the day.
Think QR did something similar to build the route and try and make it work. We're already on the third Hainan aircraft type for the route.
The odd triangle routing and customs /immigration faff is not something I would personally choose.
As we know the tourist inbound rates in winter to Scotland (and presumably Ireland) tend to plummet, but I would have thought Hainan would have known that from the ourset.
Ive a feeling its not the last of the changes to this double-drop service, in infact Hainan in general what with their financial woes and aircraft delivery issues.

[nighthawk117]

Originally Posted by VickersVicount

Reductions in frequency and already? How long has the service been going?
Suppose a sensible reduction to see if theres any chance of it growing is better than canning it so early in the day.
Think QR did something similar to build the route and try and make it work. We're already on the third Hainan aircraft type for the route.
The odd triangle routing and customs /immigration faff is not something I would personally choose.
As we know the tourist inbound rates in winter to Scotland (and presumably Ireland) tend to plummet, but I would have thought Hainan would have known that from the ourset.
Ive a feeling its not the last of the changes to this double-drop service, in infact Hainan in general what with their financial woes and aircraft delivery issues.

It's not entirely surprising that frequency is being reduced for the winter season, demand is always going to drop off. At least it's a cut and not a complete cancellation. Given that the market is probably mainly inbound tourism, the fact it is PEK-DUB-EDI that has been reduced suggests that it may be Dublin that is struggling, rather than EDI. Although having said that, unless loads are less than 50%, there's going to be issues getting everyone home again :-)

I wouldn't worry about the double drop too much - most people will just book their flights on days that operate the way they wish to fly, I bet few are booking PEK-EDI-DUB for example, unless it's offered pretty cheaply, or they really need to travel on that particular date.

[willy wombat]

I am currently sitting in an airside lounge at EDI and all I can say is that this airport is a disgrace. They shut the entrance to security for a while because it was too overcrowded and when we were eventually let in it took about 25 mins to get through. The airport cannot cope with the traffic it has. Those on here clamouring for more flights should be insisting on a decrease until the facilities can cope

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I would agree 100%,it used to be a brilliant wee airport.
There's no real concept now of having bread and butter routes on gates, bussing is the new norm. The new 15-17 gates are just a corrugated iron bolt-on, but the intrinsic issue for me is that the layout makes no sense. Two International Arrivals areas (take your pick), a domestic arrivals door behind Starbucks, a check in queue stretching into the old arrivals hall and most stressful of all, no clear queuing for check in. It's not fit for 2018, it's really not, and worst of all, there's just nowhere to go without spending a decent amount of money that a purely private EDI would never be able to justify an ROI around.

[edi_local]

Originally Posted by nighthawk117

It's not entirely surprising that frequency is being reduced for the winter season, demand is always going to drop off. At least it's a cut and not a complete cancellation. Given that the market is probably mainly inbound tourism, the fact it is PEK-DUB-EDI that has been reduced suggests that it may be Dublin that is struggling, rather than EDI. Although having said that, unless loads are less than 50%, there's going to be issues getting everyone home again :-)

I wouldn't worry about the double drop too much - most people will just book their flights on days that operate the way they wish to fly, I bet few are booking PEK-EDI-DUB for example, unless it's offered pretty cheaply, or they really need to travel on that particular date.

I can say from a reliable source that very few, sometimes none, use the triangle route in either direction,

PEK-EDI and EDI-PEK
PEK-DUB and DUB-PEK

EDI-DUB and DUB-EDI

Are all pretty busy (the shuttle sector surprisingly so some days), but there are few and far between who are using it to go EDI-DUB-PEK for example. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

Still, at 3 per week, or even 1 direct per week in winter, Beijing will have more flights than say, JFK or YYZ.

[EIFFS]

Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot

I would agree 100%,it used to be a brilliant wee airport.
There's no real concept now of having bread and butter routes on gates, bussing is the new norm. The new 15-17 gates are just a corrugated iron bolt-on, but the intrinsic issue for me is that the layout makes no sense. Two International Arrivals areas (take your pick), a domestic arrivals door behind Starbucks, a check in queue stretching into the old arrivals hall and most stressful of all, no clear queuing for check in. It's not fit for 2018, it's really not, and worst of all, there's just nowhere to go without spending a decent amount of money that a purely private EDI would never be able to justify an ROI around.

i operated into EDI recently from the US before position back to home base, it was around 25 minute before the first bag and no priority given to crew bags which are kept in a separate hold so had to stand there with the passengers who were complimentary about the flight and in flight service but very frustrated at the time it took for the bags to be delivered and the aircraft was directly ehind the reclaim belt up near stand 2 or 3

catching my my flight home through security was a bit of a joke and reminded me of the days when you turned left at the top of the escalator for security rather than the now shopping mall, unfortunately like most UK airport that have grown bit by bit over the years nothing short of a full rip out and start again will address the underlying shortcomings and that won’t happen

[AlbaAirNE]

I have passed through EDI several times in past 12 months. The state of the facilities is TBH embarrassing, the airport is at least for business the gateway to Scotland.
The terminal experience is not going to be enhanced with the works ongoing, as commented previously replace entirely and demolition of existing surely the only competent solution.
To achieve that is there a reason that Rwy30 end could be retained, surely a new terminal that end with a pier running along the runway centreline is feasible, terminal entrance and exit would be adjacent rail and tram, road could spur across Gogar. The present freight could relocate to existing terminal west side aprons.

[Plane mad 134]

I heard on another thread Thomas cook are freeing up an aircraft maybe we will see a 1 aircraft base, Although you are right Edinburgh needs a new terminal before adding more flights.

[VickersVicount]

Interesting June CAA stats.
Good start for UA IAD, but presumably thats the explanation for fairly significant drop in UA EWR, infact looks as if seasonal GLA carried more to EWR in June.
Seems EY also showing some increase despite about to be canned.

[ld0595]

My very crude calculations show that the loads on the Beijing route were about 87% for June, (total seats - 3212, load for June - 2793,) although I guess it can't be known how many carried on to/from Dublin.

[tartan 201]

Originally Posted by VickersVicount

Good start for UA IAD, but presumably thats the explanation for fairly significant drop in UA EWR

While that's true, EWR was twice-daily last year and is only daily this year - IAD, in effect, replaces one of the daily EWRs. Looking at things from UA's perspective, last June they carried 23,915 passengers (daily ORD, 2 daily EWR), whereas this June they carried 27,235 on their daily flights to IAD, EWR and ORD - an increase of 14%. The number of passengers on the EWR flights dropped by 39% even though capacity fell by 50%, hence increasing the load factor on the remaining daily flight.

[CabinCrewe]

Assuming CAA stats for Beijing are accurate for purely EDI loads (not mixed with DUB, and noting no EDI-DUB increase), assuming 9 flights in June on an A330-300 is that just high 50's loads?

[willy wombat]

CC - is that 50's absolute or 50's %?

[tartan 201]

Originally Posted by willy wombat

CC - is that 50's absolute or 50's %?

The flight started on the 12th June and operates four weekly (Tue, Thu, Sat, Sun), thus there were 11 days of operation in June. Their A330s have 292 seats (source) thus there were 6,424 seats available (11*2*292). Assuming a 50:50 split of available seats EDI : DUB, there would be 3,212 seats available EDI<>PEK. The CAA data shows 2,793 'terminal passengers' on the EDI<>PEK route. The CAA defines a 'terminal passenger' as "A terminal passenger is a passenger joining or leaving an aircraft at the reporting airport". Table 9 of the CAA data also shows 244 'transit' passengers at EDI in June 2018, compared to none in June 2017. The CAA defines a 'transit passenger' as "A transit passenger is a passenger who arrives at and departs from a reporting airport on the same aircraft which is transiting the airport." I suspect (though don't know for certain) that many of those 244 are DUB<>PEK passengers who get off and get back on again at EDI. In which case, I think the 2,793 are passengers who started or ended an EDI<>PEK journey at EDI so the EDI<>PEK load factor would be about 87% (on the assumed 50:50 split of seats EDI : DUB).

[CabinCrewe]

I presume the fact that HA have reversed and closed one of the weekly schedules from October and reduced capacity already trumps any fag-packet personal interpretation calculations!
Will be interesting to see how this route pans out.
Was also surprised to see EY with international expansion again given we were lead to believe it was finished.

[A350Saltire]

Originally Posted by CabinCrewe

I presume the fact that HA have reversed and closed one of the weekly schedules from October and reduced capacity already trumps any fag-packet personal interpretation calculations!
Will be interesting to see how this route pans out.
Was also surprised to see EY with international expansion again given we were lead to believe it was finished.

Hainan are HU not HA. It looks like the route is performing fairly well and reductions in the winter are entirely sensible given there will almost certainly be lower demand. It will be interesting to see if they increase the frequency around Christmas and New Year.

I am very impressed with EDI's June 2018 performance on the long haul routes to the Middle East and across the Atlantic. Just to give an idea, here are the numbers:

DOH- 74% (11,280 passengers, +8.0%) QR
AUH- 90% (9,885 passengers, +7.9%) EY

Total UAE and Qatar = 21,165 passengers, +8.0% (increase of 1,565 passengers)

YYZ- 84% (4,740 passengers, +23.0%) AC
ORD- 92% (9,336 passengers, +8.8%) UA
JFK- 89% (18,422 passengers, +9.1%) DL and AA
EWR- 92% (9,328 passengers, -39.2%) UA (one of two daily replaced by service to IAD)
SWF- 87% (5,283 passengers, +33.0%) D8
PVD- 88% (4,175 passengers, +138.7%) D8
IAD- 85% (8,571 passengers, new service) UA (replaces one of two daily EWR services)
SAN - 88% (504 passengers, +87.4%) BY

Total USA and Canada = 60,369 passengers, +15.9% (increase of 8,284 passengers)

[Plane mad 134]

Turkish are doing their inaugral B737Max flight to Ediburgh tommorow.