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Doncaster Sheffield-2

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Doncaster Sheffield-2

Old 7th Dec 2017, 15:08
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Originally Posted by Barnstable View Post
Might the Flybe agreement preclude the likes of Ryan Air from operating out of DSA?
Ryanair will not do anything till contacts are up at nearby airports.
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 18:38
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Both TUI and Flybe have flights from Alicante to DSA, and both are generally very expensive. However, I can see that the TUI one-way flights to DSA on Dec 23 and 26 are now just 39 quid. FlyBe, on the other hand, is keeping its prices sky high. Virtually all FlyBe's one-ways are way over 100 quid, and the prices don't even seem to change during the "summer sale" which starts in March. It seems like TUI is willing to drop its prices at the last minute to fill its planes, but FlyBe isn't. It's a popular route, but with Ryanair flying ALC - EMA for peanuts, I can't see FlyBe's pricing policy as being sustainable.
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 22:01
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Quite simply it is 2 different strategies to try and create air transport monetary yield where the natural demand is lacking [possibly due to lack of population catchment]. Neither option is sustainable unless the airlines are in some way funded by the airport/ local authority for example.
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Old 15th Dec 2017, 08:06
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TUI's fare policy is a tried and tested model that is standard for package operators, why would it be unsustainable? My beef is with FlyBe, who are charging about 100 quid more to fly DSA-ALC than Ryanair from EMA. I'd probably pay an extra 40 quid to fly into DSA but not 100.

Catchment area isn't the problem for DSA, its getting more of those living in the catchment area to use the airport when, in cases such as ALC, FAR cheaper options exist down the road.
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Old 15th Dec 2017, 08:59
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Barnstable - The TUI mantra, and its not just for DSA is to fill its aircraft by selling holidays as that is where they make their money. Therefore, seat only prices are quite high to discourage people from booking seat only - and only at the last minute will they sell extra seats off cheap.
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Old 31st Dec 2017, 15:25
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You think about Flybe and the profit warning and then you look at the base fares which are mind boggling. Good job the Manchester company has lots of money. All part of the masterplan. Yorkshire paralyzed!
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Old 1st Jan 2018, 10:28
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people complaining about £ 100 one way from Yorkshire to Spain!

Amazing.
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Old 1st Jan 2018, 18:02
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Obv not a Yorkshireman! When you can get EMA-ALC (EMA 1 hr away from DSA) for £50, £100 is £50 difference... x2 people x2 sectors thats £200 for an apt!
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Old 1st Jan 2018, 18:32
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Is that one way or return? If RTN, then the route is losing money. Even single, it's marginal.
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Old 1st Jan 2018, 19:16
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FR flights EMA-ALC frequently £32..that’s reality, losing or marginal! At this many will not pay the DSA premium to fly local with BE or TUI
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Old 1st Jan 2018, 21:00
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I’m wanting to fly out of DSA to Dublin but I’ve been priced out by Flybe.
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Old 1st Jan 2018, 23:27
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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If your airport has a tiny catchment area then you cannot get the necessary amount of passenger throughput that will enable the prices to come down such as at EMA for example. The natural demand is always going to be less. Bigger airports with larger natural demand are able to offer the airlines better deals hence lower prices.

Smaller catchment area airports like MME and BLK have in the past offered airlines deals to be there but this as we have seen seldom lasts very long and is unsustainable. Doncaster's Manchester owners are currently doing the same and that is why Flybe's base fares are incredibly low. Ridiculously low. It's an artificial airport with a North Western sugar daddy. Look at the domestic passenger figures from this central UK airport they show the true picture. That is why West Yorkshire has been inundated with adverts for this airport. The North West benefits hugely if Yorkshire has too many airports and Yorkshire keeps on suffering.
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Old 1st Jan 2018, 23:38
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Flybe pricing is strange.

In July I had to urgently return from holiday from AGP to MAN due to my daughter needing to be admitted to hospital. Loads of flights available to MAN so no problem there.

After a few days I'm looking for a flight back to AGP, but all fights from MAN are full, same at LPL and EMA, I couldn't get a flight for love nor money. Then I checked flights from DSA and Flybe had availability at only £60.49. When I boarded the next day I was surprised to find the flight was only about half full.

Not good management by Flybe.
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Old 2nd Jan 2018, 09:07
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Originally Posted by DSA-DUB View Post
Iím wanting to fly out of DSA to Dublin but Iíve been priced out by Flybe.
I'm surprised. This is my normal flight - usually booked last minute.

By the time I look at the inconvenience of getting to another airport for an stupid o'clock start, the cost of parking etc the Doncaster flight, the reduced risk of traffic value looks better....

Only thing I can't get to work is the return journey which normally involves an extra hotel. Usually fly to manchester and get late train. (PS if you do this get first class. Dirt cheap, and the train is normally busy as the A380 passenger load gets in..
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 18:43
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DSA's catchment area isn't tiny, as LA suggests. However, most in the catchment area have 4 or 5 alternative airports to choose from. Very few are inconvenienced by flying from somewhere else. I'm a Sheffielder who regularly flies to and from Alicante who'd love to fly from DSA but the price and the (currently early morning) flight times with Flybe and TUI make me look at EMA, MAN and even Liverpool.
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 19:11
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This is the problem Barnstable - you don't actually understand what a population catchment is. There are two different population catchments (time and distance). It is the point on a map where the time travelled to get to your airport is equal to the time travelled to get to rival passenger carrying airports. Alternatively it is the point on a map where the distance from your airport is equal to the distance to rival passenger carrying airports. They are both finite areas of land and the population of people therein.

Yes you can induce people to travel from Plymouth to use DSA but the time and distance catchment populations are locked figures. By definition EACH airport has its OWN time and distance population catchment. DSA has a very small population catchment.
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 19:24
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Airports define catxhment areas by time. Always have, so LeedApproach your comments are somewhat redundant.

In actual fact if you understood how it works it's more complex than simply catchment areas.

As for the fares, I would argue that the sentiment above is wrong. Is flybe are charging significantly more than the competition at EMA then that tells me demand is high. If they can charge double and still
Achieve the load factor then demand must exist. In this case it's a supply driven model and good news for flybe.

At the end of the day all of this is a balance between supplier and consumer. Where one wins the other loses.

Of course it's great when competition drives down fares (and it's competition that drives the fares down leeds approach not the size of the airport) but when the consumer 'wins' in the long terms it's unsustainable (aka Monarch). There has to be a balance.

Personally £100 for a fight to ALC is not that bad. You can not supply a flight for £39 profitably. It's impossible.
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 19:46
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My comments are explaining the maxim. DSA is ringed by airports with much bigger catchment populations and that is why those airports are able to offer cheaper fares/better service. That is the law of catchment populations and why DSA would naturally struggle like BLK and MME for example.
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 19:56
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I disagree. DSA has a strong catchment, but like STN, it will take time to develop services and establish its base. It is not the size of the catchment that determines the fares, it's the competition from other airlines, and like I said above, some competition is good and the nature of open skies, but the problem with too much competition is ultimately someone has to lose - this was shown with Monarch last year and there may well be further consolidation to come.

DSA is not in the same league as BLK or MME, and in terms of catchment areas with the phase II link road about to open, i'd say DSA probably has a bigger catchment area than leeds ... and with the Sheffield city region really starting to propser, there are good things ahead for the airport I am sure.
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 19:57
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When you see very low fares it is usually-
a, a very efficient airport with large population catchment and large natural demand/competition

b, an airport that is being deliberately 'propped up' as part of a wider aviation strategy

c, a closing down sale
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