Loganair-2
The ATR42-300s are indeed rocks but the -600 that Stobart recently got to replace EHH & CBK wouldn't even attempt 25+ kts was diverting regularly during its first few weeks at CFN due to 22kts and upwards winds. The old-300s seemed to give it a go in +30 and make it as I always waited in anticipation for them diverting to LDY so I could get pictures of them but that rarely happened, sorry for the anecdote but it would seem ATR have tougher limits of the -600s
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I never even heard of CBK going off at CFN. Would align well, those two sheds are great warriors but that’s a Stobart topic.
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Fleet replacement
Although I agree the ATR42 is a good replacement, the 48/50 seater capacity may not be completely filled by passengers, thus a 30 seater would probably be more economical? I suggest that they purchase new Embraer 120 Brasilia's which are still in production if the need arises, they are pretty sturdy aircraft and proven domestic aircraft which would be similar to the current Saab 340 fleet. Another option is the new Viking DHC-5NG Buffalo utility aircraft that have a capacity of 30-40 and are versatile for cargo operations too, not to mention the extraordinary short field performance. Another option for smaller aircraft could be the new 19 seater Cessna 408 SkyCourier for routes to say Campbeltown, Tiree, Benbecula etc?
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Although I agree the ATR42 is a good replacement, the 48/50 seater capacity may not be completely filled by passengers, thus a 30 seater would probably be more economical? I suggest that they purchase new Embraer 120 Brasilia's which are still in production if the need arises, they are pretty sturdy aircraft and proven domestic aircraft which would be similar to the current Saab 340 fleet. Another option is the new Viking DHC-5NG Buffalo utility aircraft that have a capacity of 30-40 and are versatile for cargo operations too, not to mention the extraordinary short field performance. Another option for smaller aircraft could be the new 19 seater Cessna 408 SkyCourier for routes to say Campbeltown, Tiree, Benbecula etc?
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To quote from the above mentioned article:
I think we can put all speculations about Embraer 120s, DHC8-Q300s, DHC5s etc. to rest.
"The Managing Director aspires to start standardizing the fleet in 2019, with the ATR42 as the selected type to serve all routes besides the islands operations. He is especially concerned about the high costs to keep the Saab 2000s running. "Their maintenance costs are horrific", he said."
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The article I refered to also has a quote that the Saab 2000s are so expensive to maintian that they do not provide any cost advantage over the Saab 340s despite being 1/3 larger. Plus they are in a weight category that makes them rather expensive for a 50 seater when it comes to charges, fees etc. Add to that that their superior speed isn't really needed on Loganair's network. So bring on those ATRs - it will also give Loganair the option to add a few ATR72 depending on future expansion plans.
Islanders are to stay according to the article, Loganair looked at alternatives like the Quest Kodiak or the Caravan, but they lack the performance required around the Orkneys.
Islanders are to stay according to the article, Loganair looked at alternatives like the Quest Kodiak or the Caravan, but they lack the performance required around the Orkneys.
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And the places to land if it all goes quiet up the front while halfway across the water to Stronsay at 300ft
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What do we make of Loganairs suggestion of an (BMI) Embraer hub at GLA serving European destinations?
Didnt they try that many years ago (with 146's and 1-11s), equally inefficient then?
A very good local brand name though (so long as it doesnt divert from what they're good at)
Not exactly first flurry into Europe given theyre currently trying Bergen...
Interesting times, a BRU route ex GLA with reasonable fares and frequency and suitable Star codeshare might work, particularly if the Embraers can still make money. CPH would be the other one I could think of and maybe Paris. FRA unlikely now against LH but maybe take over its half hearted Munich or DUS. MAD a bit of a trek in a tiny Emb
http://shorturl.at/orFNR
Didnt they try that many years ago (with 146's and 1-11s), equally inefficient then?
A very good local brand name though (so long as it doesnt divert from what they're good at)
Not exactly first flurry into Europe given theyre currently trying Bergen...
Interesting times, a BRU route ex GLA with reasonable fares and frequency and suitable Star codeshare might work, particularly if the Embraers can still make money. CPH would be the other one I could think of and maybe Paris. FRA unlikely now against LH but maybe take over its half hearted Munich or DUS. MAD a bit of a trek in a tiny Emb
http://shorturl.at/orFNR
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Link does not seem to work, but story is - https://www.scotsman.com/news/transp...utes-1-4759063
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@fly757x
The ATR42-600 has exactly the same cross wind limits as the ATR42-320 and this has not changed in recent times at CFN.
the AT46 regularly lands in cross winds of uptown 35kt.
The Reason they divert from CFN at >25kt is because the runway is 1,100m long and only 30m wide and with a non precision approach on both ends (with one being a dodgy NDB) it has short and narrow limitations which are standard ...
The ATR42-600 has exactly the same cross wind limits as the ATR42-320 and this has not changed in recent times at CFN.
the AT46 regularly lands in cross winds of uptown 35kt.
The Reason they divert from CFN at >25kt is because the runway is 1,100m long and only 30m wide and with a non precision approach on both ends (with one being a dodgy NDB) it has short and narrow limitations which are standard ...
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European routes from Glasgow sound interesting. But is Glasgow ready for Bmi style fares to the continent, likely in competition with cheaper fares from Edinburgh?
Also, and tragically, the better marketing partner for such routes would probably have been flyBe :-(
Also, and tragically, the better marketing partner for such routes would probably have been flyBe :-(
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@fly757x
The ATR42-600 has exactly the same cross wind limits as the ATR42-320 and this has not changed in recent times at CFN.
the AT46 regularly lands in cross winds of uptown 35kt.
The Reason they divert from CFN at >25kt is because the runway is 1,100m long and only 30m wide and with a non precision approach on both ends (with one being a dodgy NDB) it has short and narrow limitations which are standard ...
The ATR42-600 has exactly the same cross wind limits as the ATR42-320 and this has not changed in recent times at CFN.
the AT46 regularly lands in cross winds of uptown 35kt.
The Reason they divert from CFN at >25kt is because the runway is 1,100m long and only 30m wide and with a non precision approach on both ends (with one being a dodgy NDB) it has short and narrow limitations which are standard ...
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I'd have more concern about these routes as standalone P2P stuff.
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I’d imagine the links with Lufthansa and star alliance through BMI will be used as much as possible. As has been said the fares will be key but BRS has managed to sustain BMI well so hopefully the same can be done for Loganair.