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Gatwick-2

Old 30th Apr 2018, 10:24
  #281 (permalink)  
 
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Well at Stansted Primera are trying to do something similar. A daily JFK form LTN might work but certainly 787-9 would be performance limited for LAX - and I don't think there is market of that size for LAX from LTN. And more bases adds cost - something I would think Norwegian are trying to avoid right now.

There is a market for these low cost services frm those who travel frequently- LAX for a week to see friends, then New York to do the same. These are under fifties largely- and even then Norwegian aren't always cheapest. Young savvy acquaintace flies cheap and often - she found the best deal to LAX last week booked not long in advance was with...American.

Last edited by 22/04; 30th Apr 2018 at 14:51.
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Old 30th Apr 2018, 14:44
  #282 (permalink)  
 
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CEO of Norwegian said in an interview in Airliner World that the focus would remain with LGW due to the connection to other DY flights. They do not want to dilute the London operation.
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Old 30th Apr 2018, 16:11
  #283 (permalink)  
 
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One is increasingly reminded of Laker. Extremely rapid growth of capacity and routes, substantial new aircraft leases, and scheduling (even in the same markets as Laker) what might be peak season capacity right through the off-season. Laker for example from a standing start had withinn a couple of years, in November, more capacity from the UK to Miami and LAX than BA. Sound familiar ? All at low fares. No substantial business use (which is what you need in November). No major corporate contracts. Newbie yield management team. Lots of low fares offered.

It's a competitive world out there. What newcomers often fail to realise is that they are perfectly at liberty to start up on a city pair which established carriers have developed for decades. They can offer what capacity and fares they like. Fine. However, the established carriers are totally at liberty to do the same. New carriers seem to feel it is fine for them, only now, to come into the market, but it is somehow "unfair" for the established carriers to respond in the same manner. But whatever else do they expect them to do ?

However revenue announcements, forward bookings, or whatever may be announced, there is only one measure. Is there cash at the bank to pay everyone ?
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Old 30th Apr 2018, 21:17
  #284 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by spacedog View Post
There was a good full page article in yesterday’s Sunday Times. Well worth a read.
Reading between the lines it doesn’t look to rosy for Norwegian in its current state.
Old News

Ryanair's Michael O'Leary was saying that a year ago and everybody abused him for it.
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Old 30th Apr 2018, 21:40
  #285 (permalink)  
 
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I wonder if for certain Gatwick routes ie JFK Norwegian would be better off introducing a low cost Business Class. Maybe look at what JetBlue has done with their Mint product in the US and use it as inspiration and draw some of the more price sensitive Business travellers to them.
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Old 1st May 2018, 08:05
  #286 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by daz211 View Post
I know this is the Gatwick thread and I’m not against Gatwick in any way so please don’t bit me.

I think Norwegian would do well not over filling LGW with more flights but launching a daily STN and LTN to JFK and LAX, this would serve the passengers who have to drive past both STN and LTN to get to LHR and LGW to fly with a multitude of airlines across the pond.
because in truth I would pay BA and VS prices to fly on Norwegian if it saves me going on the M25 having driven past STN and I’m sure 1000’sof passengers a day feel the same way.
I drive past STN to fly from LGW even when similar flights are available. What was a very pleasant airport is now a retail hell hole. Give me LGW any day!
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Old 1st May 2018, 08:32
  #287 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wowzz View Post
I drive past STN to fly from LGW even when similar flights are available. What was a very pleasant airport is now a retail hell hole. Give me LGW any day!
all airports are now full of retail, even Gatwick, but if you want to drive past an airport for an extra hour or so then good luck to you.
but I find it hard to believe if you had to fly to America on say BA and BA offered the route from STN and LGW and LHR that you would drive past STN just because it takes you two minutes to walk past some retail units but each to their own.
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Old 1st May 2018, 11:19
  #288 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by daz211 View Post


all airports are now full of retail, even Gatwick, but if you want to drive past an airport for an extra hour or so then good luck to you.
but I find it hard to believe if you had to fly to America on say BA and BA offered the route from STN and LGW and LHR that you would drive past STN just because it takes you two minutes to walk past some retail units but each to their own.
it's not just the retail outlets. It's the lack of seating, lengthy security queues, limited number of toilets (usually dirty), restricted choice of eating places, terrible choice of car parking options, and that's before we arrive back and face the lengthy delays at Border Control. Give me the STN of 25 years ago any day!
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Old 1st May 2018, 12:45
  #289 (permalink)  
 
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I am aware that Primera Air are trying this from Stansted all be it with some teething problems but for example where did the 135 passengers onboard the primera flight come from British Airways, American, Norwegian? The have obviously come from somewhere.
Many will be net new, too good a deal to miss, couldn't be carried profitably on a legacy carrier. Margins will be tight if you're selling on price alone.
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Old 2nd May 2018, 09:57
  #290 (permalink)  
 
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Norwegian has confirmed it will be 3 daily to JFK from the start of the winter timetable.
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Old 3rd May 2018, 08:39
  #291 (permalink)  
 
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JFK has always been frequency led rather than capacity. That’s why BA operate so many flights ex LHR and don’t consolidate and use A380’s.

Norwegian needs to try and match frequency where possible.
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Old 3rd May 2018, 09:36
  #292 (permalink)  
 
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JFK has always been frequency led rather than capacity. That’s why BA operate so many flights ex LHR and don’t consolidate and use A380’s.
Norwegian needs to try and match frequency where possible.
Frequency for time sensitive business fliers between LON-NYC meetings. BA use B744s with 86J seats, i.e. Y starts after door 4.
Norwegian have almost zero focus on long haul business travellers, no lounge offering etc, they're price led. Hence frequency is not a must.
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Old 3rd May 2018, 10:26
  #293 (permalink)  
 
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I think you do get lounge access with the premium cabin fares?
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Old 3rd May 2018, 15:55
  #294 (permalink)  
 
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Turkish offers a twice weekly seasonal service to Bodrum from 13th June to 8th September
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Old 3rd May 2018, 15:59
  #295 (permalink)  
 
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I believe the third daily Norweigan to New York won't be served by an extra aircraft, but by a reduction in other services.
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Old 3rd May 2018, 23:02
  #296 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by vectisman View Post
stephenjclark50. Yet 40 million plus passengers with BA a year plus profits of hundreds of millions of pounds. I think you make a generalisation sir!
amazing what you can do with a monopoly, created by the state and protected for decades by the state, starting a new airline from private funds is a rather more difficult undertaking🇬🇧
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Old 3rd May 2018, 23:10
  #297 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Echo View Post
Frequency for time sensitive business fliers between LON-NYC meetings. BA use B744s with 86J seats, i.e. Y starts after door 4.
Norwegian have almost zero focus on long haul business travellers, no lounge offering etc, they're price led. Hence frequency is not a must.
some truth in that Lord Skippy, but go back to 2013 when Norwegian announced they would open a LGW base, you likened it to the short lived Aer Lingus...wrong, ditto when Norwegian started long haul, BA would crush them...wrong, but ironically might end up buying them, Norwegians woes started with the Dreamliner
, prior to that they were profitable, but now they have 11 78’s at LGW alone, and a fleet of 32 by year end, the general view is if they get through the summer they’ll be ok the massive growth rate stops in the 3rd quarter, but plenty of headwinds to get through first.
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Old 4th May 2018, 00:30
  #298 (permalink)  
 
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Great point well made.
I likened Norwegian’s brand presence to that of Aer Lingus, EI half heartedly went after LGW-EU whereas Norwegian came in and wholeheartedly went for it. Great product, great price, backed up by a lot of money. They earned their place by displacing Monarch for one and offering a good alternative to EZY and BA of course held on. I freely and openly admit I called that one wrong. That’s D8.

However hubris can get the better of the best.
Pan Am and everything after 1969.
United and Allegis
BA and Project Utopia / World Images.

DY see themselves as classic disruptors. It wasn’t enough to make money being best in market, they went a little too far IMHO with their strategy to not just beat SAS but put them out of business, then their smoke and mirrors with at least 6 AOCs. It wasn’t enough to hold their own against the Orange Team at LGW, they now had to beat BA across the atlantic. It’s unfair to say “too big for your boots” or “know your place”, that’s wrong, but at least don’t let hubris bring the whole operation crashing down! D8 is an airline of choice, DI is bleeding money with no end in sight.

I will happily eat my words and read the book on how these guys made a success of paying for a fleet of new 789s by offering fares at a fraction of the competition to SIN and EZE with no proper business class offering by throwing capacity into the low season whilst ordering a fleet of narrow bodies from two different manufacturers that do almost the same job whilst saying you may or may not operate the NEOs, all as your CFO flees. THAT would be a cracking book, and I genuinely hope they do it.
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Old 4th May 2018, 03:54
  #299 (permalink)  
 
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It wouldn’t take much, at least in airline terms to sink them for sure, so far they’ve been lucky, arguably very lucky, but the keep pushing it, Argentinian AOC ....12 months ago I’d have agreed about splitting the narrow body order, but that MAX is a good replacement for the NG, but I think the 321neoLR is or will be better and probably a lower cost seat kilometre than the 787 on certain routes.

at a time when Emirates are having to curtail their summer capacity due pilots shortage, BA using Titain to slot sit at LGW due aircraft and pilot shortage, FR praying for summer ATC strikes to save pilot hours Norwegian have aircraft orders, aircraft and crews, but zero profitability so I reckon it will be £6 a share to get a deal maybe more, yes you can wait until it goes tits up, but then there are no guarantees as IAG found out with Lauda, so if you want 32 787 100 plus new Airbus before 2021 maybe a deal to be done.

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Old 10th May 2018, 18:37
  #300 (permalink)  
 
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Looks like Air China have just announced their return.

Three times a week to Chengdu;CA423 CTU1550 – 2000LGW 330 25
CA423 CTU1550 – 2010LGW 330 7

CA424 LGW2200 – 1540+1CTU 330 2
CA424 LGW2210 – 1540+1CTU 330 57

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