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Old 11th Feb 2018, 09:39
  #341 (permalink)  
 
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So a large redeployment of actual/specific airframes then as some a/c based at STN/LTN/GLA & EDI just as example are OE- dash right now..
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 09:49
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Originally Posted by EGPFlyer View Post
All UK based aircraft will be UK registered and all EU based aircraft will be Austrian registered.

At the moment there is about 270 aircraft in the fleet. 140 are based in the UK and 22 are in Switzerland. That leaves about 110 for the EU fleet so those numbers are probably accurate.
Yeah that's what I assumed, though I know some OE- aircraft are currently operating UK flights so I guess they will continue to until we actually leave the EU?
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 10:33
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The big issue is nobody knows what the arrangements will be post-Brexit. Best case is similar to today with an "open skies" agreement, worst case the UK ends up with individual bilaterals with each member state, e.g. nominated operators, frequency restrictions, etc (think current UK-China agreement).

Unlikely I know, but can't see how EZY can say they're Brexit proof.
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 12:15
  #344 (permalink)  
 
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At present, all EZY services can be operated by OE- and G- registered aircraft. All EZY are saying is that, by registering 110 in Austria, they will be able to continue to operate their existing schedule after Brexit if no inter-governmental agreement is forthcoming.
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 12:30
  #345 (permalink)  
 
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The OE a/c will be able to operate within the remaining EU 27.

The G a/c will be able to operate within the UK and to any non-EU countries the UK has a bilateral agreement with.

There is no agreement yet as to what will happen between the UK and the EU 27.
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 12:42
  #346 (permalink)  
 
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No agreement yet but it will be sorted, otherwise there will be no Air France, Lufthansa, Iberia, Aer Lingus, TAP, (etc etc) flights to the UK
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 12:44
  #347 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by southside bobby View Post
So a large redeployment of actual/specific airframes then as some a/c based at STN/LTN/GLA & EDI just as example are OE- dash right now..
Aircraft move around all the time.. youíll find in the months leading up to the spilt, depending on the outcome of negotiations that the OE regs will slowly migrate to the EU bases and vice versa
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 14:07
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No agreement yet but it will be sorted, otherwise there will be no Air France, Lufthansa, Iberia, Aer Lingus, TAP, (etc etc) flights to the UK
Not necessarily none, but who knows? Which is the problem - all assumptions until there's an agreement.
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 15:42
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Maybe I've missed something, and I seek correction.

1. Easyjet have established an OE AOC to be able to continue inter-EU flights.

2. In earlier times some UK charter airlines had split destinations within EU. i.e. there was an inter-EU sector.
Will this practice be allowed, or have the airlines set up an EU AOC?

3. What happens to companies like TUI with subsidiaries in various EU countries & UK; or is there a central TUI AOC in EU? If so will TUI require a dual UK & EU AOC?

3. The G a/c will be able to operate within the UK and to any non-EU countries the UK has a bilateral agreement with.
There is no agreement yet as to what will happen between the UK and the EU 27.

If this is true have BA and all other UK airlines set up an EU AOC?

4. We hear only about ez's AOC plans: was about all the others?
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 15:48
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You thinking about Dan Air and Monarch which used to operate from Berlin to Europe?
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 15:49
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No. I was thinking about BY that might fly occasional split destinations in Spain or Greece,
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 15:52
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Before open skies airlines could only operate freely (no need individual agreements), therefore a G- reg airline could only operate flights To/From the UK. An OE- reg airline could only operate flights To/From Austria. Then the European open skies happened, which allowed any EU airline to operate To/From any EU airport to another EU airport. This is why the likes of Ryanair, Easyjet, Norwegian, Wizz, can operate from and to countries they are not registered in.

The fear (note no one actually knows at this point!) is after Brexit that the UK will not be part of the open skies, and therefore:-

Ryanair would only be able to operate to the UK from Ireland
Wizzair would only be able to operate to the UK from Hungary
Norwegian would only be able to operate to the UK from Scandinavia
Easyjet would be able to operate to/from UK to anywhere, but would NOT be able to operate flights not going to/from UK

As all 4 of these airlines have significant capacity either in the UK, or in EZYs case, not in the UK they are preparing for this scenario with new AOCs either in or outside of the UK to retain traffic rights post Brexit.

BA and Virgin are un-affected by this scenario as all of their flights start or finish in the UK

PS. I believe charter flights fall under different traffic right rules compared to scheduled
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 16:51
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It could be worse than that depending on what happened legally when an existing UK air service agreement such as with the US was superseded by a collective agreement between the EU and the third country. If the EU one is no longer valid does everything revert to the previous agreement, or is there then a need for a new agreement to be negotiated? If the latter then on the day after Brexit, assuming no new agreement has been reached to kick in, we could face a situation where only U.K. domestic flights could operate.
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 17:26
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Well, did the pro-Brexit rhetoricians remember to mention these "odds and ends" before the crucial referendum one and a half years ago?
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 17:33
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It could be worse than that depending on what happened legally when an existing UK air service agreement such as with the US was superseded by a collective agreement between the EU and the third country.
It could be worse than that in that many countries didn't exist before we joined the EU, so there is no agreement to revert back to, though clearly we are getting away from the EZY discussion now.

Getting back on point, I'd be skeptical of any airline saying they are Brexit Proof - more like, "we have now done as much as we practically can do based on the limited information available"
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 18:08
  #356 (permalink)  
 
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Were people now able to travel before EU? I can remember travelling with no issues why will it be such a problem now? Is the world going to end?
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 18:14
  #357 (permalink)  
 
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You were able to travel because there were international agreements in place. Many of these have been superseded since we joined the EU. They need to be re-negotiated - as of now, they haven't been.

The world is unlikely to end, but would you bet your business on it?
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 18:33
  #358 (permalink)  
 
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We have to remember these days British Airways are only a subsidiary of an airline group. That Spanish company IAG has at least five EU AOCs, Iberia, Vueling, Aer Lingus, Level & Openskies and two UK AOCs BA & Cityflier. I believe thatís why they havenít needed to change. Now the question is do the companies need to fly G-reg aircraft from the UK or can they wetlease an EU reg in if required? What about TUI (they have EU AOC as are German company but still have Thomsonís UK AOC) can they just sub in a German or Skandi plane when needed? Thomas Cook as a German company (Condor) they have both AOCs but move their fleet around. Iím not sure Flybe still do charters in Finland or Loganair in the Rep of Ireland but I presume they wonít register for an EU AOC. Though do BMI still do charter work for Airbus, will Loganair/BMI need to obtain an EU AOC or will it make the routes not worth it. Anyway we canít even deal with Eire/Northern Ireland Border so I donít think this will be solved soon.
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 18:46
  #359 (permalink)  
 
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BMI don't do the airbus contract any more Eastern do airbus contract with E145 aircraft.
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 20:39
  #360 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Were people now able to travel before EU? I can remember travelling with no issues why will it be such a problem now? Is the world going to end?
Going back to pre open skies days would be a terrible problem. No, the world wouldn't end. But we'd have far less choice and it would cost more.
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