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Flybe-9

Old 5th Mar 2019, 11:34
  #1761 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DC3 Dave View Post
Little Red. The time wasn't right?

Virgin Atlantic Connect? Seems to me it's all coming together....
Virgin Little Red fed only VS LHR and has no resemblance to the Connect (Flybe) infrastructure.

VLR failed for a few reasons - apathy was one - failed to be dynamic, and make any expansion in brand awareness in trying to take on BA domestic LHR dominance and compete with the lo-co's to other LON airports which many pax preferred.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 15:33
  #1762 (permalink)  
 
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Virgin is putting its code on almost all (all?) Air France and KLM services between the UK and Amsterdam and Paris Charles de Gaulle (as well as on AF / KL long-haul to North America). So where does that leave the competing Flybe / Connect Airways services on routes such as Birmingham - Amsterdam and Birmingham - Paris? I can't see Virgin competing with its own codeshares and the services of its partners, so maybe there will now be some consolidation (dropping competing Flybe routes), with AF and KL upping capacity where necessary and releasing a few valuable slots at AMS and CDG for other routes.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 16:24
  #1763 (permalink)  
 
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In my opinion Virgin will look at the valuable slots not the basket case of FlyBe.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 16:30
  #1764 (permalink)  
 
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I'd expect it'll go the other way, the BE services will be kept to those destinations, possibly upgauged to the E195? As that would allow AF/KL to free up much needed slots for their own expansion.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 16:46
  #1765 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EastMids View Post
Virgin is putting its code on almost all (all?) Air France and KLM services between the UK and Amsterdam and Paris Charles de Gaulle (as well as on AF / KL long-haul to North America). So where does that leave the competing Flybe / Connect Airways services on routes such as Birmingham - Amsterdam and Birmingham - Paris? I can't see Virgin competing with its own codeshares and the services of its partners, so maybe there will now be some consolidation (dropping competing Flybe routes), with AF and KL upping capacity where necessary and releasing a few valuable slots at AMS and CDG for other routes.
A lot of the Flybe traffic on those routes will be point to point and not connecting traffic. KLM especially won't be interested in that as their main focus will be connecting passengers so there won't be much clash.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 17:02
  #1766 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EastMids View Post
Virgin is putting its code on almost all (all?) Air France and KLM services between the UK and Amsterdam and Paris Charles de Gaulle (as well as on AF / KL long-haul to North America). So where does that leave the competing Flybe / Connect Airways services on routes such as Birmingham - Amsterdam and Birmingham - Paris? I can't see Virgin competing with its own codeshares and the services of its partners, so maybe there will now be some consolidation (dropping competing Flybe routes), with AF and KL upping capacity where necessary and releasing a few valuable slots at AMS and CDG for other routes.
The sensible thing to do here is a tie up between all Airlines. Flybe have too many aircraft flying unprofitable routes. Provided AF/KL play ball, they will regain aircraft availability to place elsewhere on their network. Flybe can take over the routes and slots that match the capacity required. EG replace AF/KL routes flown by the ATR/E170/190 of KLC and Hop! with BE Q400/170/195, freeing up AF/KL to open new routes elsewhere through Europe. AF/KL can also save on nightstopping aircraft and crews out of base in the UK with BE taking on the early flights.
AF/KL mainline continue to fly with their own metal where Airbus & Boeing size are required.
Not sure how that would play out with AF/KL unions however...
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 17:27
  #1767 (permalink)  
 
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They already do this at MAN and BHX with AF although I understand that the KLM union agreement does not allow a similar thing.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 18:46
  #1768 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The96er View Post
They already do this at MAN and BHX with AF although I understand that the KLM union agreement does not allow a similar thing.
Not strictly true...they operate a shared service with AF with each airline "buying" blocks of seats off each other so that they can both offer double the frequency they otherwise could
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 19:33
  #1769 (permalink)  
 
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Flybe have too many aircraft flying unprofitable routes. Provided AF/KL play ball, they will regain aircraft availability to place elsewhere on their network. Flybe can take over the routes and slots that match the capacity required. EG replace AF/KL routes flown by the ATR/E170/190 of KLC and Hop! with BE Q400/170/195, freeing up AF/KL to open new routes elsewhere through Europe. AF/KL can also save on nightstopping aircraft and crews out of base in the UK with BE taking on the early flights.
AF/KL mainline continue to fly with their own metal where Airbus & Boeing size are required.
Not sure how that would play out with AF/KL unions however...
Well let me rephrase that.
If I book an Air France or KLM ticket in an expectation of flying on their own metal and service levels which have been well supported from the UK regions since the '80s, I don't really want to fly on an old second hand Q400 with flybe. Nor will either set of union be happy to see their own profitable flying being given away to a basket case British airline that couldn't make money....well frankly at all. That's not to say Air France might not try, look at the farce of JOON, another example of an outfit not being fit for the market they were operating in. Am not sure anyone benefits from swapping a new KLM ER7 for a Q400, and let's be honest, flybe just cannot ever make money with jets. They negotiated the worst leasing agreement in known history on the Embraers that's been an albatross round their necks ever since. Not sure why KLM or AF want to swap money making routes to redeploy their assets on new routes, there's gotta be a balance IMHO.

Personally given how Air France and KLM are an uneasy marriage, I am baffled as to how Virgin really adds anything. So they can codeshare between two points VS don't even fly to, wow! It would be different if there was a decent feed from CDG or AMS onto VS long haul at MAN, but is that something the big two are willing to do?
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 20:21
  #1770 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot View Post
Well let me rephrase that.
If I book an Air France or KLM ticket in an expectation of flying on their own metal and service levels which have been well supported from the UK regions since the '80s, I don't really want to fly on an old second hand Q400 with flybe. Nor will either set of union be happy to see their own profitable flying being given away to a basket case British airline that couldn't make money....well frankly at all. That's not to say Air France might not try, look at the farce of JOON, another example of an outfit not being fit for the market they were operating in. Am not sure anyone benefits from swapping a new KLM ER7 for a Q400, and let's be honest, flybe just cannot ever make money with jets. They negotiated the worst leasing agreement in known history on the Embraers that's been an albatross round their necks ever since. Not sure why KLM or AF want to swap money making routes to redeploy their assets on new routes, there's gotta be a balance IMHO.

Personally given how Air France and KLM are an uneasy marriage, I am baffled as to how Virgin really adds anything. So they can codeshare between two points VS don't even fly to, wow! It would be different if there was a decent feed from CDG or AMS onto VS long haul at MAN, but is that something the big two are willing to do?
What will happen with the current Flybe setup no-one really knows. We could see them introduce increased service levels. But there are distinct differences between AF/KL and what Flybe currently offer. Hop and KLC are feeder Airlines feeding the wider network, flybe are likely going to still do that for VS and partners, but also have an extensive network separate to feeding hubs. There could be 2 sets of service levels.
Longer term there could be fleet replacement, or cabin refreshes. HOP fly a mixture of aircraft, including props and older Embraer 13/14X's.
The question is, what to KLC/Hop! etc offer that's different to what Flybe could potentially do. I know KL offer a light snack, but the rest of it is improved customer service levels. Put a VS uniform, refresh the training to VS levels, offer a light snack on flights connecting to hubs and link up the online/tech levels to that of VS. What would then be missing?
The point i'm trying to make is that it's unlikely Flybe will continue within its current state and improvements will come.
If you book with AF, you could be flying Hop. If you book KL, at present you could be flying Stobart, although KLC is more like a KL offshoot than Hop is with AF. Flybe will become Virgin branded and is part owned by VS, so if you book AF/KL but on an (ex) flybe aircraft, you're effectively flying VS.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 20:50
  #1771 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by caaardiff View Post
What will happen with the current Flybe setup no-one really knows. We could see them introduce increased service levels. But there are distinct differences between AF/KL and what Flybe currently offer. Hop and KLC are feeder Airlines feeding the wider network, flybe are likely going to still do that for VS and partners, but also have an extensive network separate to feeding hubs. There could be 2 sets of service levels.
Longer term there could be fleet replacement, or cabin refreshes. HOP fly a mixture of aircraft, including props and older Embraer 13/14X's.
The question is, what to KLC/Hop! etc offer that's different to what Flybe could potentially do. I know KL offer a light snack, but the rest of it is improved customer service levels. Put a VS uniform, refresh the training to VS levels, offer a light snack on flights connecting to hubs and link up the online/tech levels to that of VS. What would then be missing?
The point i'm trying to make is that it's unlikely Flybe will continue within its current state and improvements will come.
If you book with AF, you could be flying Hop. If you book KL, at present you could be flying Stobart, although KLC is more like a KL offshoot than Hop is with AF. Flybe will become Virgin branded and is part owned by VS, so if you book AF/KL but on an (ex) flybe aircraft, you're effectively flying VS.
totally agree . Also the guy who set up Virgin America is now on the team setting up Virgin Atlantic short haul . For those who donít believe cabin interiors ,service levels , fleet replacement wonít happen watch this space
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 20:53
  #1772 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jmccrew View Post

totally agree . Also the guy who set up Virgin America is now on the team setting up Virgin Atlantic short haul . For those who donít believe cabin interiors ,service levels , fleet replacement wonít happen watch this space
and look where Virgin America are now
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 21:05
  #1773 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sinbad73 View Post
and look where Virgin America are now
I know it is now part of Alaska I was commenting on those who regard Flybe negatively and think it will stay the same under new ownership
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 22:54
  #1774 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jmccrew View Post

totally agree . Also the guy who set up Virgin America is now on the team setting up Virgin Atlantic short haul . For those who don’t believe cabin interiors ,service levels , fleet replacement won’t happen watch this space
Investing heavily in a loss making, no, broken, business may work BUT market focus need to be [email protected] sharp. What’s the USP? Are they flybe, Air France, KLM or Virgin? The market is incredibly challenging and overcrowded in some parts and plain loss making in others. Brave.
No sensible CEO will have two service levels on a Q400. There’s a load of “coulds” there, a lot of costs, but the bit I am not seeing is the ROI. Tbh it feels, ironically, like BACON, one last throw of the dice before giving up.
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Old 6th Mar 2019, 01:54
  #1775 (permalink)  
 
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This isn't just a case of what's in it for Virgin, Stobart own an equal share too, I think some posts on here are getting way ahead of themselves.
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Old 6th Mar 2019, 06:49
  #1776 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jmccrew View Post

I know it is now part of Alaska I was commenting on those who regard Flybe negatively and think it will stay the same under new ownership
Virgin America was the case of Alaska's hostile takeover and was permitted - SRB and the VA CEO could do little about it sadly.

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Old 6th Mar 2019, 06:53
  #1777 (permalink)  
 
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My guess is that the future will be much more mundane and involve a fair amount of white label flying.
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Old 6th Mar 2019, 14:05
  #1778 (permalink)  
 
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Possibly the only registration plate worth more than an airline?
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Old 6th Mar 2019, 14:21
  #1779 (permalink)  
 
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Possibly the only registration plate worth more than an airline?
Hope he or she can park an aircraft a bit better!
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 18:56
  #1780 (permalink)  
 
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Grrr

I see the switch to a new back-end platform was a huge success
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