Flybe-9
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: East Midlands
Posts: 540
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agreed. These so called "base closures" are complete rumours, that in-fact have been made to sound believable by media reports clearly actually getting their information from what someone had posted right here on PPRuNe. It's a shame that posts on a whim like that can then be taken as gospel and actually start affecting an airline and its employees at these bases. Admittedly Flybe's management should be reassuring their colleagues at this time, which for all we know actually may have done. They should however too do so to the public / passengers, as whilst they may probably know different and just brush off the rumours and negativity of their financial situation, the media is ridiculously powerful on winning peoples minds.
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agreed. These so called "base closures" are complete rumours, that in-fact have been made to sound believable by media reports clearly actually getting their information from what someone had posted right here on PPRuNe. It's a shame that posts on a whim like that can then be taken as gospel and actually start affecting an airline and its employees at these bases. Admittedly Flybe's management should be reassuring their colleagues at this time, which for all we know actually may have done. They should however too do so to the public / passengers, as whilst they may probably know different and just brush off the rumours and negativity of their financial situation, the media is ridiculously powerful on winning peoples minds.
People really should put more consideration into posting into public forums, comments are taken way way out of context and hearsay becomes fact.. this can quickly create problems. And has, lots of staff going through unessceasy stress - despite those of us that have seen this all before reassuring them.
The modern world and online anonymity.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 798
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cardiff is. Doncaster isn’t anymore, contract was rewritten (as far as I was aware) due to the fact that the base was making money and flybe werent getting all of that profit due to the blackbird contract agreement. So they have “gone it alone”.
My understanding is both based are doing well and loads are good. I don’t buy into these base closures, why close a base that is profitable?? You’d still have the issue of where to base the aircraft and the headache of crew redundancies.
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: East Midlands
Posts: 540
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Indeed this winter and the previous, there has only been 1xE175 based at DSA but this has probably been sensible planning. With them "going it alone" so to speak - reducing potential costs on routes harder to operate over the winter.
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Wales
Posts: 1,316
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2x E175s. The only "cut backs" really has been the reduction from the 2xE195 type initially in summer 2016 down to 1xE195 and 1xE175 in summer 2017 to the now current 2xE175s. The change to E175s was inevitable with the phase out of the E195 from the fleet. I'd probably expect CWL to be all E175 at some point next summer too.
Indeed this winter and the previous, there has only been 1xE175 based at DSA but this has probably been sensible planning. With them "going it alone" so to speak - reducing potential costs on routes harder to operate over the winter.
Indeed this winter and the previous, there has only been 1xE175 based at DSA but this has probably been sensible planning. With them "going it alone" so to speak - reducing potential costs on routes harder to operate over the winter.
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2x E175s. The only "cut backs" really has been the reduction from the 2xE195 type initially in summer 2016 down to 1xE195 and 1xE175 in summer 2017 to the now current 2xE175s. The change to E175s was inevitable with the phase out of the E195 from the fleet. I'd probably expect CWL to be all E175 at some point next summer too.
Indeed this winter and the previous, there has only been 1xE175 based at DSA but this has probably been sensible planning. With them "going it alone" so to speak - reducing potential costs on routes harder to operate over the winter.
Indeed this winter and the previous, there has only been 1xE175 based at DSA but this has probably been sensible planning. With them "going it alone" so to speak - reducing potential costs on routes harder to operate over the winter.
DSA is only going to get bigger with TUI starting long haul flights next year and the terminal being extended. Real potential for Flybe to gain a proper foothold in the region if they make the right decisions.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: mids
Age: 58
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CAzza fly we do feel for you. I had several mates that got redundancy from E jets some only months after their base moved to them from Q400. Even the base doing well and making a profit didn't seem to appear in any logic what stayed or went. then a few months after they left they got a phone call asking them back.
Just looking at the agency emails coming through there seems to be swings sometimes weekly never mind monthly. One min looking for prop DEC's next a mate is saying they had started the process and then it was paused then told its not happening. A week later phone call are you still interested.
if anyone is interested in the Ejet model choice here is a comparison of the different models.
http://www.team.aero/files/aviation_data/owners_n_operators_guide_e_jets.pdf
the E175 to cdg to sou will burn 1700kg at cruise which is 797Km/h the Q will be doing 650 km/h adding maybe 10 mins on to the flight. and burning 1200kg Q has 76 seats and the E175 88 seats. Half a ton of fuel @ 800$ a ton for 12 seats on an hour sector. I can't see the maint on the Q making the Ejet more economic at 400$ an hour sector.
Any road as soon as they are filling a Q regularly one of the loco will come sniffing. If they are not filling a Q no point sticking a E jet on the route.
We shall have to wait and see what they are going to do to sort the mess out. Fingers crossed they can fix things. According to the investor boards things are not as bad as the headlines say. Most of the loss was due to one off hits. They have minimal capital expenditure debt to service and 50 mil plus operating cash in the bank. not utterly brilliant but certainly not nearly exposed as some airlines which haven't taken a SM price hit or been the centre of attention in the media.
Just looking at the agency emails coming through there seems to be swings sometimes weekly never mind monthly. One min looking for prop DEC's next a mate is saying they had started the process and then it was paused then told its not happening. A week later phone call are you still interested.
if anyone is interested in the Ejet model choice here is a comparison of the different models.
http://www.team.aero/files/aviation_data/owners_n_operators_guide_e_jets.pdf
the E175 to cdg to sou will burn 1700kg at cruise which is 797Km/h the Q will be doing 650 km/h adding maybe 10 mins on to the flight. and burning 1200kg Q has 76 seats and the E175 88 seats. Half a ton of fuel @ 800$ a ton for 12 seats on an hour sector. I can't see the maint on the Q making the Ejet more economic at 400$ an hour sector.
Any road as soon as they are filling a Q regularly one of the loco will come sniffing. If they are not filling a Q no point sticking a E jet on the route.
We shall have to wait and see what they are going to do to sort the mess out. Fingers crossed they can fix things. According to the investor boards things are not as bad as the headlines say. Most of the loss was due to one off hits. They have minimal capital expenditure debt to service and 50 mil plus operating cash in the bank. not utterly brilliant but certainly not nearly exposed as some airlines which haven't taken a SM price hit or been the centre of attention in the media.
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Wales
Posts: 1,316
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes all correct. Cardiff receive government grants perhaps that’s the reason for the additional aircraft??
DSA is only going to get bigger with TUI starting long haul flights next year and the terminal being extended. Real potential for Flybe to gain a proper foothold in the region if they make the right decisions.
Flybe right now are having a bit of a tough time and their competitors will likely be very much aware of this.
What stops the likes of Easyjet and Ryanair from deploying A320 / B737 aircraft on Flybe's main trunk routes ? I'm thinking of the likes of SOU-EDI/GLA/MAN/JER/AMS and the equivalent out if EXT, BHX and MAN ? Easyjet have not been afraid to make life harder for Flybe on the Isle of Man
As relatively short routes, runway length becomes less important. The only thing I can think of is competition law (I can't really see MOL worrying that aggressive competition would not look very nice to the middle classes !) but as long as LCCs can show they were not price dumping they would presumably have a defence in court
What stops the likes of Easyjet and Ryanair from deploying A320 / B737 aircraft on Flybe's main trunk routes ? I'm thinking of the likes of SOU-EDI/GLA/MAN/JER/AMS and the equivalent out if EXT, BHX and MAN ? Easyjet have not been afraid to make life harder for Flybe on the Isle of Man
As relatively short routes, runway length becomes less important. The only thing I can think of is competition law (I can't really see MOL worrying that aggressive competition would not look very nice to the middle classes !) but as long as LCCs can show they were not price dumping they would presumably have a defence in court
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: London
Posts: 746
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Did flybe used to have a base on the Isle of man, if so how many based aircraft did they used to have there.
I am sure I read somewhere recently that they are reopening the isle of Man base and having 3 dash8 aircraft there, but I fail to see on what routes 3 dash8 aircraft
would be used on, unless that's not what I read, as I cant find the original article now...…..#
I am sure I read somewhere recently that they are reopening the isle of Man base and having 3 dash8 aircraft there, but I fail to see on what routes 3 dash8 aircraft
would be used on, unless that's not what I read, as I cant find the original article now...…..#
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: On the road
Posts: 913
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flybe right now are having a bit of a tough time and their competitors will likely be very much aware of this.
What stops the likes of Easyjet and Ryanair from deploying A320 / B737 aircraft on Flybe's main trunk routes ? I'm thinking of the likes of SOU-EDI/GLA/MAN/JER/AMS and the equivalent out if EXT, BHX and MAN ? Easyjet have not been afraid to make life harder for Flybe on the Isle of Man
As relatively short routes, runway length becomes less important. The only thing I can think of is competition law (I can't really see MOL worrying that aggressive competition would not look very nice to the middle classes !) but as long as LCCs can show they were not price dumping they would presumably have a defence in court
What stops the likes of Easyjet and Ryanair from deploying A320 / B737 aircraft on Flybe's main trunk routes ? I'm thinking of the likes of SOU-EDI/GLA/MAN/JER/AMS and the equivalent out if EXT, BHX and MAN ? Easyjet have not been afraid to make life harder for Flybe on the Isle of Man
As relatively short routes, runway length becomes less important. The only thing I can think of is competition law (I can't really see MOL worrying that aggressive competition would not look very nice to the middle classes !) but as long as LCCs can show they were not price dumping they would presumably have a defence in court
1/ What makes you think Easy or Ryan give much of a hoot what Flybe do when they seem quite capable of hitting the self-destruct button all by themselves.
2/ Suppose they did want to hurt Flybe...it's a 70+ aircraft airline..where are they supposed to source that number of hulls with crews from to make a difference.
Flybe are UK only...Easy and Ryan are true pan-European airlines....I suspect what Flybe does goes largely beneath both companies notice (apart from comedy value) until such time as the routes become of interest due to implosion.
What stops the likes of Easyjet and Ryanair from deploying A320 / B737 aircraft on Flybe's main trunk routes ? I'm thinking of the likes of SOU-EDI/GLA/MAN/JER/AMS and the equivalent out if EXT, BHX and MAN ? Easyjet have not been afraid to make life harder for Flybe on the Isle of Man
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 697
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What stops the likes of Easyjet and Ryanair from deploying A320 / B737 aircraft on Flybe's main trunk routes ? I'm thinking of the likes of SOU-EDI/GLA/MAN/JER/AMS and the equivalent out if EXT, BHX and MAN ? Easyjet have not been afraid to make life harder for Flybe on the Isle of Man
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: iom
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Did flybe used to have a base on the Isle of man, if so how many based aircraft did they used to have there.
I am sure I read somewhere recently that they are reopening the isle of Man base and having 3 dash8 aircraft there, but I fail to see on what routes 3 dash8 aircraft
would be used on, unless that's not what I read, as I cant find the original article now...…..#
I am sure I read somewhere recently that they are reopening the isle of Man base and having 3 dash8 aircraft there, but I fail to see on what routes 3 dash8 aircraft
would be used on, unless that's not what I read, as I cant find the original article now...…..#
The Stobart ATR72-500s ACMI lease arrangement is being terminated and FlyBe are re-opening a base at Ronaldsway with 2 Q400s which will operate weekdays to MAN (5 x daily) LPL (4 x daily) and BHX (1 x daily) with reduced frequencies at weekends.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: ellan vannin
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes they did have a base on the IOM with three Q400s. These aircraft operated to LGW, MAN, LPL, BHX and LTN/JER. When they sold their Gatwick slots to EasyJet the IOM base was scaled back and then closed in 2016. Isle of Man services have been operated by FlyBe liveried Stobart ATR72-500s for the last few years.
The Stobart ATR72-500s ACMI lease arrangement is being terminated and FlyBe are re-opening a base at Ronaldsway with 2 Q400s which will operate weekdays to MAN (5 x daily) LPL (4 x daily) and BHX (1 x daily) with reduced frequencies at weekends.
The Stobart ATR72-500s ACMI lease arrangement is being terminated and FlyBe are re-opening a base at Ronaldsway with 2 Q400s which will operate weekdays to MAN (5 x daily) LPL (4 x daily) and BHX (1 x daily) with reduced frequencies at weekends.
The bhx services after March 2019 appear to be being operated by a bhx based aircraft
Join Date: May 2018
Location: DK
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The following is copied from an investor forum but should be also of interest here:
HSBC upgrade to buy today. Two-thirds drop in share price since profit warning on 17 October appears overdone; value of assets ignored. On a per-share basis, they value Flybe's slot portfolio at 43p and owned fleet at 79p with balance sheet debt of 26p.
Let's all hope that the share price will now recover.
HSBC upgrade to buy today. Two-thirds drop in share price since profit warning on 17 October appears overdone; value of assets ignored. On a per-share basis, they value Flybe's slot portfolio at 43p and owned fleet at 79p with balance sheet debt of 26p.
Let's all hope that the share price will now recover.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In the house
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think they actually had 4 based Q400’s for a while, one went not long after ezy started serving the iom and the third was to go when lgw finished leaving only enough work for two based aircraft, but the base closed at the same time as lgw finished and lpl,man,bhx were operated by man and bhx based aircraft nightstopping until Stobart took over
The bhx services after March 2019 appear to be being operated by a bhx based aircraft
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: iom
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tinwald,
I think there are a number of reasons from what I have read and heard. I understand that the Stobart ATR 72-500 aircraft have not been as reliable as hoped and that Stobart want to dispose of them and concentrate on the more modern ATR72-600. Either that or their leases are up.
It is also rumoured that the ATRs are not as suitable as q400s in relation to passengers travelling on the IOM Government health service patient transfer service because the door area is narrower which makes boarding wheelchair passengers or those with limited mobility more time consuming. Also they can only board through one door on an ATR whereas the Dash 8s can be boarded/turned round quicker with boarding front and back.
FlyBe were awarded a new 3 year contract by IOMG in March which is reported in todays local paper as involving 17,000 return trips per annum, the vast majority of which are by air to Liverpool with some to Manchester so I would think that FlyBe would want carry on with the contract. From my experience these Liverpool and Manchester flights are carrying good loads and with this contract it is presumably a profitable operation.
I think there are a number of reasons from what I have read and heard. I understand that the Stobart ATR 72-500 aircraft have not been as reliable as hoped and that Stobart want to dispose of them and concentrate on the more modern ATR72-600. Either that or their leases are up.
It is also rumoured that the ATRs are not as suitable as q400s in relation to passengers travelling on the IOM Government health service patient transfer service because the door area is narrower which makes boarding wheelchair passengers or those with limited mobility more time consuming. Also they can only board through one door on an ATR whereas the Dash 8s can be boarded/turned round quicker with boarding front and back.
FlyBe were awarded a new 3 year contract by IOMG in March which is reported in todays local paper as involving 17,000 return trips per annum, the vast majority of which are by air to Liverpool with some to Manchester so I would think that FlyBe would want carry on with the contract. From my experience these Liverpool and Manchester flights are carrying good loads and with this contract it is presumably a profitable operation.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: back end of beyond
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tinwald,
I think there are a number of reasons from what I have read and heard. I understand that the Stobart ATR 72-500 aircraft have not been as reliable as hoped and that Stobart want to dispose of them and concentrate on the more modern ATR72-600. Either that or their leases are up.
It is also rumoured that the ATRs are not as suitable as q400s in relation to passengers travelling on the IOM Government health service patient transfer service because the door area is narrower which makes boarding wheelchair passengers or those with limited mobility more time consuming. Also they can only board through one door on an ATR whereas the Dash 8s can be boarded/turned round quicker with boarding front and back.
FlyBe were awarded a new 3 year contract by IOMG in March which is reported in todays local paper as involving 17,000 return trips per annum, the vast majority of which are by air to Liverpool with some to Manchester so I would think that FlyBe would want carry on with the contract. From my experience these Liverpool and Manchester flights are carrying good loads and with this contract it is presumably a profitable operation.
I think there are a number of reasons from what I have read and heard. I understand that the Stobart ATR 72-500 aircraft have not been as reliable as hoped and that Stobart want to dispose of them and concentrate on the more modern ATR72-600. Either that or their leases are up.
It is also rumoured that the ATRs are not as suitable as q400s in relation to passengers travelling on the IOM Government health service patient transfer service because the door area is narrower which makes boarding wheelchair passengers or those with limited mobility more time consuming. Also they can only board through one door on an ATR whereas the Dash 8s can be boarded/turned round quicker with boarding front and back.
FlyBe were awarded a new 3 year contract by IOMG in March which is reported in todays local paper as involving 17,000 return trips per annum, the vast majority of which are by air to Liverpool with some to Manchester so I would think that FlyBe would want carry on with the contract. From my experience these Liverpool and Manchester flights are carrying good loads and with this contract it is presumably a profitable operation.
Leases are up on ATR 72--500's
OTP over 80%, less than 3% flights cancelled in 2019 due to ALL reasons (WX, tech & misc)
Understand that loading PRM's can be an issue but OTP shows not a huge problem
Personal view only I think cancellation of Stobart Contract has more to do with Flybe's financial postion