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Flybe-9

Old 22nd Oct 2018, 11:29
  #621 (permalink)  
 
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.

2Excel Aviation at Lasham, Bruce Dickinson at Cardiff or KLM UK at Norwich would, I am sure be very competitive for base maintenance.

would it be out of the realms of possibility for Stobbarts to buy Flybe?
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 11:32
  #622 (permalink)  
 
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Eastern donít seem to have the crew to operate their own routes out of Aberdeen without regular disruption.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 11:41
  #623 (permalink)  
 
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Given the knock backs my suggestions have been with perhaps a take over by Stobbarts is Flybeís only hope.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 11:55
  #624 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hatton View Post
Given the knock backs my suggestions have been with perhaps a take over by Stobbarts is Flybeís only hope.
Itís a deal that has been looked at within recent memory, if I recall.

The thing is, I suspect that relatively modest revenue generation combined with APD makes it a tough space to make money in. Painting the aircraft white, purple or lilac wonít make much difference. Equally ATR, Q400 or E-Jet themselves arenít going to make or break the airlines. Stobart couldnít make SEN-GLA/MAN work for example, with ATRs.

I do think there is a role for an airline like BE, but domestic U.K. opportunities arenít endless. Franchising, connections and code-shares can all add complexity, but little revenue. Itís a well trodden road to extinction. Focussed airlines like Ryanair, easyJet, TUI, Thomas Cook and KL Cityhopper have thrived in U.K. regions. Unfocused, confused airlines like bmi and bmibaby havenít.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 11:58
  #625 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hatton View Post
Cardiff
Doncaster
Southampton

I would get rid of all the Embraer jets including the 175s☹️
How easy would it be to get out of the project blackbird deals at CWL and DSA? I thought they were 10 year agreements.

Using CWL as an example, are only operated from there;
VCE MXP MUC


How well does MAN and SOU do as a hub? Could a better hub setup be created in order to feed onto quiter routes to mainland Europe within 2 hours?
I've looked at BEs route network in the past and the German/French etc routes are randomly operated from some Airports and not others.

Is their route network strong enough or just randomly picked? Using CWL as an example, MUC FCO and VCE are only operated from CWL, nowhere else. Given they have a number of jets in the fleet, are they being wasted being used on domestic routes where they could be building up the network on longer routes from other airports?
SOU has quite a variety of routes, especially in France. It would be interesting to know how many people connect through SOU onto these routes? Similarly at CWL with the above routes which are offered as connections when booking from Airports like BHD and EDI

I'm not sure what the issues are at EDI but I have read that Airport charges are starting to play a part for other Airlines. If that's the case, could they build a route network out of EDI but with less aircraft based there, thus saving on overnight parking charges if they can get a good deal at cheaper regional Airports?
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 12:05
  #626 (permalink)  
 
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How about setting up a base at EMA. Itís central location would help and it already operates a number if routes into there.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 12:22
  #627 (permalink)  
 
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How about setting up a base at EMA. It’s central location would help and it already operates a number if routes into there
I'm not anti EMA but no one seems to have made a success of true scheduled routes from EMA. The airport has relied in a limited way on viable non-sun routes by true LoCos and on sun routes by both LoCos and Inclusive tour operators. I doubt that would work.

Does anyone know if LHR is profitable - if not that would be one of my first targets.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 12:44
  #628 (permalink)  
 
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East Midlands growth has been stunted by the development at Doncaster and Birmingham. It does well to handle 4.5m pax every year! Location of that airport perfect for cargo but not high yielding pax.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 13:02
  #629 (permalink)  
 
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I think they are gradually choking at SOU tbh, the new deal they got after using BOH as leverage, as some what back fired on them.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 14:31
  #630 (permalink)  
 
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If and it's a big they were taken over would the rights to HEATHROW pass to the new owners or lapse ,?
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 16:58
  #631 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Navpi View Post
If and it's a big they were taken over would the rights to HEATHROW pass to the new owners or lapse ,?
If flyBe were taken over by an airline/group other than IAG then yes, they would.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 16:58
  #632 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hatton View Post
How to rescue Flybe:
1) Bring back Saad
2 Get rid of the Jets
3)Focus on Belfast, Birmingham, Exeter, Glasgow, Manchester and Southampton. Close all other bases and cut routes that are loss makers.
4) Sell or park non Q400 fleet.
5) Sell simulators and out source line and base maintenance.
Can't really agree with any of that i'm afraid and Saad will most definitely not return.

Yes the E195s need to go and the sooner the better. The rest of the fleet though is a pretty perfect fit for their operations IF of course utilised in the most efficient way.

As for maintenance, it's not always the most cost effective way to outsource everything as much as some would have you believe. If anything, BE should be looking at bringing more of their A/B checks back in-house. I believe MAEL in BHX are currently taking care of that. There's also money to be made with the Flybe Airline Services operation with other Bombardier, BAE/Avro and Embraer operators often heading to them in Exeter for work.

Originally Posted by hatton View Post
Why not have Eastern operate from bases like Cardiff and Aberdeen with J41s as part of the franchise deal?
I agree. The Eastern Airways / Flybe franchise really hasn't been used to the best of it's potential. Eastern could really have used the power of the BE brand and online selling services with opening up new routes as well it automatically expanding the Flybe network. However, as another poster has mentioned, it seems they themselves have been struggling with crewing issues. Perhaps had they planned more prospects and had more work generated at an earlier stage of the franchise, these issues may not have been the case with crew seeing a more positive and ambitious future...

As for bases, If it wasn't for the LHR route, ABZ could have been a contender to close as a BE base. Flybe operations could continue on based Eastern aircraft and away based Flybe aircraft. The only other realistic contender as a base closure would be DUS. The only benefit of this base is the early morning arrival into LCY which it too is competing directly with BA Cityflyer (ironically operated by Eastern Airways). All other routes to and from DUS can be operated with UK-based aircraft.

There's a lot of things BE need to work on to get itself into ship shape efficient order, but it needs to do so now, much more quickly! The roll out of the new Amadeus systems has been a start, but that itself is progressing rather slowly. Increasing ancillary revenues through the booking engine and operating model should also be looked. Other than the checked-in baggage charges they must be the least pushy airline when it comes to extra fee's and service offerings. Finally and following on from that, they need to aim to be a high quality low-fare regional airline. Something they are trying to be but also seem scared to fully admit to as they continue to cling on to a lot of legacy. Aircraft utilisation, old fashioned scheduling methods coupled with old fashioned overheads such as aircraft cleaning during turnarounds etc all need looking into. Its needed to make the operation much leaner and a more efficient operation if they are to survive as a sizeable operation.

Last edited by Cazza_fly; 22nd Oct 2018 at 17:41.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 17:11
  #633 (permalink)  
 
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Cabin crew do clean the aircraft on out of base turnrounds expect as far as I recall MXP. But cleaners do come on at base - so as a BHX based crew member on a BHX-GLA-BHX-HAM-BHX 4 sector day you would clean at GLA and HAM only. Payments are made per out of base clean to Cabin Crew.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 17:16
  #634 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hatton View Post
How to rescue Flybe:
1) Bring back Saad
2 Get rid of the Jets
3)Focus on Belfast, Birmingham, Exeter, Glasgow, Manchester and Southampton. Close all other bases and cut routes that are loss makers.
4) Sell or park non Q400 fleet.
5) Sell simulators and out source line and base maintenance.


2) and 4) Have already been tried back in 2014 by Saad and failed.
5) Won't work either as the base maintenance (Aviation Services) are the only profitable bits of Flybe, and have several times in the last 4 years actually propped up the rest of the business.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 17:39
  #635 (permalink)  
 
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Aberdeen Base

Eastern J41 at Aberdeen would not have the capacity for the routes Ex Aberdeen. Flybe built up the LCY route however Eastern are doing their best to finish the route operating the service via Newcastle.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 18:19
  #636 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by househunter View Post
Eastern J41 at Aberdeen would not have the capacity for the routes Ex Aberdeen. Flybe built up the LCY route however Eastern are doing their best to finish the route operating the service via Newcastle.
The suggestion as mentioned was based on a mix of away based BE aircraft and based Eastern Airways aircraft which compromises of JS41 and larger Saab2000 aircraft (alongside the ATR ops of course).

Also since when has the ABZ-LCY-ABZ service been operated via NCL?
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 18:52
  #637 (permalink)  
 
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Also since when has the ABZ-LCY-ABZ service been operated via NCL?
It isn't, though it has been rumoured.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 18:56
  #638 (permalink)  
 
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I heard that Flybe people believe in keeping the utilisation low because they are a 'different' type of airline!

Last edited by Sharklet_321; 23rd Oct 2018 at 07:49.
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 08:05
  #639 (permalink)  
 
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I counted five aircraft in Birmingham on the ground last Thursday - not even being touched for a turnaround which I thought was quite telling!
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 08:17
  #640 (permalink)  
 
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Utilisation does appear to be very low, some aircraft doing one return short trip a day.
BA Cityflyer make their E jets work hard, during the summer week-ends once London City winds down, their E jets are working day & night to bucket & spade destinations from the regions. Winter week-ends they're heavily deployed on ski flights also from various regions.
Why aren't the Flybe E jets working into the night from BHX/MAN/SOU on bucket and spade flights? are they really scared of upsetting EZY/RYR/J2 ? Not held Cityflyer back, their flights might not be as cheap as the other LoCos but have proved to be popular.
Something is wrong with their business model for sure.
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