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Old 19th Oct 2020, 20:19
  #4341 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LV
Posts: 2,107
So they couldn't make it work in best of times yet its gung-ho for restart in the most horrific period of air travel ever experienced? Who’s coming up with this stuff. I despair sometimes.
CabinCrewe is offline  
Old 19th Oct 2020, 20:22
  #4342 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 14,249
Good point. So an airline flying smaller, near empty planes would make less of a loss.
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Old 19th Oct 2020, 21:09
  #4343 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2001
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I really hope this works out. Flybe were never my favourite, but seeing the jobs lost, and the connectivity lost, we have to hope for the best. There will be an upturn at some stage (although just at the moment, it's hard to know when), and if they can be ready with the routes that were viable, then who knows.

Presumably they'll need a new fleet...E2s maybe? A220s? ATRs?
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Old 19th Oct 2020, 22:50
  #4344 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London
Age: 41
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Originally Posted by airsouthwest View Post
They couldn't make it work because the airline was too big, they couldn't get rid of aircraft on leases as it was too costly. The E-jets we're costing massive amounts in leasing. On top of this they had a training academy losing thousands they couldn't close because it was part owned by the government & Credit card providers refused to hand over cash since 2018. £60 million pounds owed to Flybe by the time it went bust.

The good thing is a new Flybe can be more controlled, with cheaper leased aircraft already painted in the livery, No cash burdens like the training academy. Give Cyprus has previous experience with Virgin America I think they stand a pretty good chance. People need to stop being negative, that's all we've had in 2020. Lets look to the future, rebuild aviation along with the country and just try to support businesses to thrive again!
People are negative because Wales and Ireland just went full on lockdown, and in all honesty we have no idea for how long. Calling it a "two week fire break" is getting filed next to "Three weeks to give the NHS time to manage capacity." Until the current insanity passes, there's no sign of things getting better. Flybe is a failed airline, let it RIP. They won't bring anything that Loganair, Aurigny, Eastern, Blue Islands and Stobart can't do already.
It's not enough to "try and support a business", you need a solid business plan, solid financing and deep pockets in a good year, and er....there have been better years.
Skipness One Foxtrot is offline  
Old 19th Oct 2020, 23:00
  #4345 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 687
Totally agreed Skipness.


There is no ‘rebuilding of aviation’ until the rest of economy is rebuilt! Cart before horse.
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Old 19th Oct 2020, 23:48
  #4346 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: England
Age: 63
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People are saying that they have no aircraft, but what about these;






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Old 20th Oct 2020, 03:52
  #4347 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Scotland
Posts: 123
If you step back from a purely aviation perspective, the business opportunity here is quite clear.

At a time when many of your competitors are struggling with all manner of debt to manage, you bring a business back to the market place unecumbered with debt, a clean start, and as a bonus various parts of the business already set up and ready to go. Hopefully at the beginning of an industry upswing. And possibly with sympathetic regulators, goverment support looking to promote industry growth.

A certain Scottish football team went down this route eight years ago, getting all manner of regulatory punitive punishments and relegation to the bottom league, but in the process divested itself of the bulk of its debt. Eight years on said club, back on top of the top league.

I'm not dumb; I get a football club and an airline are worlds apart; I'm just pointing out the opportunity here.

Early days, lots to do and obviously a bit of a punt...all of which applies to all businesses at some stage.

PS And no I don't support Glasgow NewCo
Richard Dangle is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2020, 05:25
  #4348 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: ex EGNM, now NZRO
Posts: 551
You don't support the team that top the table?
Anti Skid On is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2020, 05:33
  #4349 (permalink)  
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Presumably they'll need a new fleet...E2s maybe? A220s? ATRs?
I landed in Saarbrucken a couple of weeks ago with a few dozens of Flybe Dash-8 parked there, some quite recent, well maintained and already painted in the right colors, so why bother with a new fleet ? They could reintroduced those one by one as traffic picks up later at minimal costs I would assume . Or am I missing something ?
ATC Watcher is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2020, 06:11
  #4350 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: UK
Age: 58
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They are E175s and it seems unlikely the Ejets would be part of any restart plan. They were part of the problem.
Wycombe is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2020, 06:55
  #4351 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 216
Richard Dangle

Eh, yeah, maybe not. The government have made it crystal clear about their intentions of supporting the Airline industry. I think this is all fantasy talk at the moment. Whoever starts this off is going to have to have pockets deeper than the Grand Canyon!
Atlantic Explorer is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2020, 08:38
  #4352 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Aalborg
Posts: 130
Flybe isn't going to start flying tomorrow and the future situation is unknown - see how it unfolds. I think its fair to say these lot have some experience in running an airline, we haven't seen the books, done any due diligence or spent any of our own cash... they have and I bet they did it knowing it would get a good return.
Hopefully that goal of a good return will be aligned with Flybe returning to the skies......

I do feel sorry for the airlines flying at the moment losing cash if Flybe comes back and competes hard but its dog eat dog.
There weren't many backing Flybys call for a bail out at the start of the year and they were quick to cherry pick the best routes rather the essential connectivity marginal routes.
However at these times I still think working with Logan Air to supply the UK with essential Regional Connectivity would be better than going after them and better in the eyes of the Politicians/Media.
Jamie2009 is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2020, 09:00
  #4353 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 11 GROUP
Age: 75
Posts: 1,201
New Company NO DEBT

Nothing to loose here if you wish to get into the travel business 'that suits you'.
No need to go back to old routes that bleed money, No need to spend most of your time trying to 'plug holes', No need to concern yourself with dealing with 'negative' issues. People will want to travel again, and everyone wants to attract them to their 'shop'. The ability to focus most of your attention on giving passengers what they are looking for is a very big plus. Airports will be hungry to offer facilities at economical rates, and destinations keen to do the same. A company that can keep itself lean and mean but does what it needs to do to get cashflow will attract customers very quickly. The internal market is too expensive and complicated to bother with to start with ,but there is still a need for leisure travel that suits the Dash fleet, and now a surplus of Jets to add to when/if required. Business is Business, and flying needs to be treated as such, not making it more complicated than required.
POBJOY is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2020, 09:46
  #4354 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tring, UK
Posts: 1,709
This reminds me of the old saw about how to make a small fortune in aviation: start with a large one.

There are certain unavoidable expenses in running an airline, no matter how much you try and pare down the structure. Leasing, landing and enroute charges, engineering, fuel and crew are a few of the major ones. A reservation and tracking system plus advertising are others. Flybe didn’t ever strike me as a bloated company resting on their laurels - they were trading in a very competitive space on narrow (negative) margins and the coup-de-grace was Covid. How a startup (or rebadging) entering that same arena in possibly the worst time for commercial aviation in living memory is going to make money is the question that doesn’t appear to have a sensible answer - hope and goodwill don’t count, unfortunately.

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Old 20th Oct 2020, 12:18
  #4355 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: britain
Posts: 534
Good accurate post Airsouthwest. Before the airline went bust i tried to explain the complexities of the relationships of the three shareholders in Virgin Connect
My explanations always fell upon deaf years
bean is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2020, 12:23
  #4356 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: britain
Posts: 534
Originally Posted by NWSRG View Post
I really hope this works out. Flybe were never my favourite, but seeing the jobs lost, and the connectivity lost, we have to hope for the best. There will be an upturn at some stage (although just at the moment, it's hard to know when), and if they can be ready with the routes that were viable, then who knows.

Presumably they'll need a new fleet...E2s maybe? A220s? ATRs?
Why? Plenty of ex Flybe Q400s looking for homes, and very cheaply at that bearing in mind that 54 redundant aircraft have created a glut on the market
bean is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2020, 12:31
  #4357 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: This side of Heaven
Posts: 355
[QUOTE=airsouthwest;10908079]Flybe is a good brand, it's not a failed brand.

You can't be serious. Flybe went out of business leaving hundreds of people stranded and having to make their own way home. Those let down like that will not have happy memories but will remember Flybe not as a good but a failed brand.

Whether or not the other airlines which have responded to Flybe's collapse by taking on routes are "good" or not, they have invested to replenish the market. They do not deserve a reincarnated Flybe to haunt them. I have no axe to grind and wish all former employees of the airline well, but this is hardly an opportune time to start an airline. Other posts have been realistic and sounded a note of caution. Let's not get carried away into flights of fantasy.
Gurnard is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2020, 12:34
  #4358 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 189
Putting things in capitals doesn't make it fact. Stobart pulled the plug on Flybe funding, Not Virgin, Not Cyprus. Cyprus tried to get a new AOC to transfer Flybe over too but the situation changed faster than expected. Aviation can rebuild with the rest of the economy, just like it did in 2008.[/QUOTE]

Flybe was heading in the right direction of stopping losing money but unfortunately Stobart was have their own money problems and could not afford to pump any more money in to Connect Airways plus not getting the £100m loan from the government. Virgin and Cyrus had no choice but to put flybe in to adminstration. As well as Connect Airways.

While now flybe has be bought back from administration, Cityjet are in the process in buying Stobart Air, unfortunately this is taking longer that expected as EIR went out to tender.

There may be more behind this with CityJet Getting E190's from their parent company Falko.

allan1987 is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2020, 12:39
  #4359 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: EGAC
Posts: 90
There's a reason only 25% of the former BEE network has been filled... it's about that proportion which made profit that was gobbled up by the other 75%, Academy, and astronomical leasing costs.
Jenny Tails is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2020, 14:04
  #4360 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Scotland
Posts: 37
54, plus many more from Air Baltic, German Airways, Austrian. Very cheap deals to be had.
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