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Old 11th Aug 2020, 16:26
  #1881 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by OzzyOzBorn View Post
So the customer has plenty of more trustworthy alternatives to consider if Ryanair wishes to pursue their rip-off change-fee policy ... Why do this???
You make some very fair points.

The real issue I see is that we have regulators who let airlines get away with this kind of crap. Large corporations are allowed to manage the business risk associated to COVID-19 (for example by re-scheduling or cancelling flights with far fewer consequences than normal), while consumers have no such leeway when they are individually impacted by the situation.

In today's environment and uncertainty, there is absolutely no reason to advance money to airlines for flights operating a few months down the line.
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Old 11th Aug 2020, 20:21
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If FR don't allow some sort of changeability in tickets, there would be far fewer new bookings being made at the moment. Bookings made before 10 June are already paid - if they relax the terms now, then lots of people will defer their flights for summer 2020 to something in 2021 instead, leaving seats in S20 no longer generating revenue. Once an airline has your money, they will only relax the terms if they can't deliver their side of the contract. If they haven't got your money yet, then it is in the airline's interest to find the way to squeeze maximum revenue out of you - if that means relaxing the terms, then so be it

May not be nice, but I imagine right now FR are managing, to some extent around cashflow
Yes, I fully appreciate the need for travel providers to protect themselves from straightforward "disinclination to travel". The penalty for that reasonably falls to the customer. But we need to differentiate between that group and those who are forced to stay away by order of the government in the jurisdiction they're booked to visit.

Right now, if you arrive at an airport in Eire with the intention of staying overnight, you will be ordered to shut yourself away in a hotel room for 14 days of self-isolation whilst arranging to have food and supplies delivered to yourself all at your own expense. Now that isn't my idea of a holiday, and I don't believe that even Mr and Mrs O' Leary would be tempted to travel on those terms. It is quite different from someone who decides they just don't fancy a trip away right now when their booked destination is fully-open for business.

Note that I'm not even talking about cancellation and refund. I'm calling for a waiver of the rip-off change-fee which prevents the customer from saving their trip by switching to replacement dates after the quarantine rule is lifted. The airline still keeps both the original fare paid and the difference between that and the new fare under these circumstances. So the pain is shared around, and customer goodwill is preserved. That seems a reasonable compromise to me. How can a £90 change fee on top of this be justified?

In the absence of that compromise, I for one cannot trust Ryanair with any new advanced bookings. And that will be my advice to family and friends too. This also has implications for the company's bottom line.
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 07:14
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Out of necessity I travel DUB-FRA and paid only €9.99 each way. Fill out a 'COVID-19 Passenger Locator Form' accurately on arrival and hand it in to passport control. I've never been followed up on and no one shuts you up in a hotel room. Why would I need to pay a change fee when I can purchase a new ticket cheaper?
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 07:34
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I needed to change my flight to Tenerife on 26th August to late September, at £19.99 for new flight there was no way I would entertain their change fee.....
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 15:42
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Fill out a 'COVID-19 Passenger Locator Form' accurately on arrival and hand it in to passport control. I've never been followed up on and no one shuts you up in a hotel room.
The situation is very different for visitors such as myself. You list your location as 'Dublin', so presumably you are based at your own accommodation which you call "home". A tourist flouting lockdown in a rural town such as Killarney would surely risk attracting the attention of the local Gardai. Apart from which, just what is actually open in Killarney? Are the 'Ring of Kerry' excursions actually running? Maybe they are - for Irish residents - but I'm sure a "self-isolating" tourist would be noticed.

No, for visiting tourists, Eire is not a viable option at present. If you want to enjoy a holiday, you must break the law. This is why it is so disappointing that Ryanair will not waive change fees for customers blindsided by this - not refunds, just a waiver of the arbitrary £90 change-fee. For a change which you organise yourself online and print on your own paper with your own ink using your own equipment. No interaction by Ryanair staff. Why a £90 charge for this?

Well, I remind Mr O' Leary and co of the decals he once applied to EI-EXF. "U Nevr Beat D Irish!" Now it just so happens that there's quite a bit of Irish blood in me ... like 100% of it actually. And I don't intend to be beaten by Ryanair on this one. Don't get angry, get even! I have devised a strategy to to do exactly that.

The fare on which I feel "done" by Ryanair was £51.95. Not a large sum financially, but I hate being ripped off. It's the principle of it. So I've decided to divert 20x this sum away from Ryanair in retaliation. In coming months, this means diverting £1039.00 which would have been spent with Ryanair to bookings with alternative carriers. Sending them to the proverbial 'sin-bin' for a while.

Now, of course, I recognise that this is only a gesture to a company the size of Ryanair. But I remind them that many other customers who booked flights on 'self-isolation' routes pre June 10th will also feel aggrieved by Ryanair's no-compromise indifference. If a good proportion of these also adopt an "anyone but Ryanair" attitude for a while, those £90 change fees will prove to have been an expensive misjudgment.
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 17:41
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In Ireland, is it a law or a recommendation?
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 05:27
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There has got to be questions asked about Ryanair and other airlines continuing to operate services to travel ban destinations just to avoid giving passengers their money back. I know of a couple where money is tight who have lost £700 as they could not travel without insurance. The bonus for Ryanair is that they get to keep government passenger taxes, don’t pay out any passenger handling charges or passenger airport fees for no show passengers.
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 05:33
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Originally Posted by LTNman View Post
There has got to be questions asked about Ryanair and other airlines continuing to operate services to travel ban destinations just to avoid giving passengers their money back. I know of a couple where money is tight who have lost £700 as they could not travel without insurance. The bonus for Ryanair is that they get to keep government passenger taxes, donít pay out any passenger handling charges or passenger airport fees for no show passengers.
Wizz have been doing this since 1st May - itís cheaper to fly the aircraft empty than return 180 passengers their money back. Iím surprised other airlines hadnít thought of this.
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 05:37
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It's business... nothing personal, just business
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 14:30
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It's business... nothing personal, just business
Maybe so. But every business transaction requires a counterparty. A well-run business will keep the customer wanting to come back for more.
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 16:37
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Well truthfully that`s just about best answer I have seen in many a long day...
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 16:40
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I don’t see any problem in them still flying, these places aren’t ‘banned’, there’s just a new quarantine requirement. A flight to Alicante from Manchester with FR post-quarantine imposed still had 160pax on board.

People want to and will still travel now as this has gone on for too long, people are fed up of being stuck in their respective countries.
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 16:48
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these places aren’t ‘banned’, there’s just a new quarantine requirement
Except that is not true.
Here is the FCO latest travel advice...


From 27 July, the FCO advise against all non-essential travel to Spain, including the Balearic and Canary Islands, based on the current assessment of COVID-19 risks in the country.
So yes, not banned but against the UK FCO advice & will impact most travel insurances. A holiday is NOT essential travel.
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 17:08
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Originally Posted by Mr A Tis View Post
Except that is not true.
Here is the FCO latest travel advice...




So yes, not banned but against the UK FCO advice & will impact most travel insurances. A holiday is NOT essential travel.
Can`t help but wonder how many people jumping on a plane and off to the sun have twigged that their travel insurance (often annual policies) will be null and void if they travel against FCO advice...A bet a lot haven`t.
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 17:46
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I bet a lot have twigged that their insurance is not valid, but have decided to chance it anyway, with the corollary they will say 'nobody told me' if they need to claim and the insuree declines to pay
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 18:29
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Originally Posted by davidjohnson6 View Post
I bet a lot have twigged that their insurance is not valid, but have decided to chance it anyway, with the corollary they will say 'nobody told me' if they need to claim and the insuree declines to pay
It seems the majority are going to forgo insurance as they canít find insurers willing to cover Covid 19.


https://www.travelmole.com/news_feat...ews_id=2042905
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 20:48
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Originally Posted by DC3 Dave View Post
It seems the majority are going to forgo insurance as they canít find insurers willing to cover Covid 19.


https://www.travelmole.com/news_feat...ews_id=2042905
To be fair, in places like Spain there is a reciprocal health agreement in place as part of being in the EU - the insurers donít cover it because there is no charge. So what is the value of insurance?

Oh.....
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 21:04
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Our EHIC cards are valid until the end of the year. But they don't cover everything, including I assume repatriation.
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 21:25
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Interesting observations on insurance, but not strictly true. I had an email from my bank about my insurance only the other day, they will cover ALL travel including to FCO exempt countries for COVID related medical but will only cover trip cancellation IF
  • are refused boarding of your flight due to having symptoms of COVID-19
  • or a close family member contract COVID-19 or where you or a travelling companion are advised to self-isolate when you're due to travel.
The landscape is changing with insurers. The perceived financial risk of contracting COVID during travel is actually less now than financial risk of you wanting to claim for cost of travel. I understand why they do this and it’s the same reason that Governments globally wont bail out the airlines a second time ( or first in some cases ) in that this first hit was unexpected, nobody saw it coming. But if you book travel now, you do so knowing it’s a risk so they aren’t going to cover you if you decide actually you want to cancel the trip off your own steam.
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 06:59
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Originally Posted by Dannyboy39 View Post
To be fair, in places like Spain there is a reciprocal health agreement in place as part of being in the EU - the insurers don’t cover it because there is no charge. So what is the value of insurance?

Oh.....
I have pointed this out on another thread that while sitting around a swimming pool in Spain I was taken ill. The hotel receptionist called out a private doctor no doubt for a backhander. He called out a private ambulance for I guess another backhander which took me to a plush 5 star hospital.

I was lying there thinking how marvellous their equivalent of the NHS was. If never occurred to me that I was raking up a 4 figure bill and was being treated privately. It was only later on my return to the UK that I found out when the bill arrived. As for my EU medical card, it was worthless. As for my insurance, it was priceless.
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