Heathrow-2
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Prophead.
how can I be missing the point ‘again’ when you are not providing the coherent point to understand In the first place?
you are still not answering the question but instead just rambling on. It’s clear you have no idea what you are actually talking about, and thus, it becomes a seriously laboured task trying to understand just what the nonsense is coming from you. And for that reason, I’m out from trying to get a straight and unbiased answer from you. It’s just a good job no one is taking you seriously so i can leave you to it.
Trying to argue against stupidity is like trying to swim through treacle. It will take you a long time and you’ll get no where, so, welcome to my ignore list. Have fun, someone, somewhere one day may just about fall for your nonsense.
how can I be missing the point ‘again’ when you are not providing the coherent point to understand In the first place?
you are still not answering the question but instead just rambling on. It’s clear you have no idea what you are actually talking about, and thus, it becomes a seriously laboured task trying to understand just what the nonsense is coming from you. And for that reason, I’m out from trying to get a straight and unbiased answer from you. It’s just a good job no one is taking you seriously so i can leave you to it.
Trying to argue against stupidity is like trying to swim through treacle. It will take you a long time and you’ll get no where, so, welcome to my ignore list. Have fun, someone, somewhere one day may just about fall for your nonsense.
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Prophead
From your earlier post:
"Grow up, your posts are seeming more and more to be from a member of the junior Manchester Airport spotters society."
I would respectfully suggest that you have no idea about the people on whom you are making assumptive suggestions. I know who 3 of the people are and I would never in a month of Sunday's place that label on them.
Yes, they may well be pro-Manchester in the same was as you are obviously pro-London, but they are all professionals (some with direct involvement of the aviation industry) who do not deserve such derogatory comments.
Should the moderators decide that my comments warrant my being barred/excludes or banned then so be it, but there are times when I can not just sit in the wings are not say anything.
From your earlier post:
"Grow up, your posts are seeming more and more to be from a member of the junior Manchester Airport spotters society."
I would respectfully suggest that you have no idea about the people on whom you are making assumptive suggestions. I know who 3 of the people are and I would never in a month of Sunday's place that label on them.
Yes, they may well be pro-Manchester in the same was as you are obviously pro-London, but they are all professionals (some with direct involvement of the aviation industry) who do not deserve such derogatory comments.
Should the moderators decide that my comments warrant my being barred/excludes or banned then so be it, but there are times when I can not just sit in the wings are not say anything.
Last edited by Scottie Dog; 11th Jun 2018 at 13:45.
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Scottie
That comment was in response to;
Not exactly the debating skills of a professional is it? I notice you stayed firmly in the wings and didn't say anything to that one though.
As for being Pro-London, ha, I can't stand the place. Gatwick is my local airport and it would be better for me, both personally and professionally if it was expanded over LHR. I am however, capable of seeing what makes most sense for the whole of the UK rather than just one city or myself personally.
It would seem I have upset the MAN Mafia
.
That comment was in response to;
It seems the 1 braincelled person cannot and does not want to understand
As for being Pro-London, ha, I can't stand the place. Gatwick is my local airport and it would be better for me, both personally and professionally if it was expanded over LHR. I am however, capable of seeing what makes most sense for the whole of the UK rather than just one city or myself personally.
It would seem I have upset the MAN Mafia
.
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"what makes most sense for the whole of the UK "
Most of the UK is sick of all investment being crowded into the SE TBH
"With an upgraded LHR there is already infrastructure in place to transfer bags from a new terminal into the existing network. There would likely be a rapid transport system to the other terminals and it would be done with relative ease."
just like it's been for the last 50 years eh? NOT
Most of the UK is sick of all investment being crowded into the SE TBH
"With an upgraded LHR there is already infrastructure in place to transfer bags from a new terminal into the existing network. There would likely be a rapid transport system to the other terminals and it would be done with relative ease."
just like it's been for the last 50 years eh? NOT
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Careful Heathrow Harry. I was told "MANFOD, give the north/south rubbish a rest will you"
Obviously the distortion in infrastructure and transport spending in London compared to other regions - relevant in terms of access to airports for example - is not up for discussion. Some previous contributors were banned for pursuing this topic I believe.
Obviously the distortion in infrastructure and transport spending in London compared to other regions - relevant in terms of access to airports for example - is not up for discussion. Some previous contributors were banned for pursuing this topic I believe.
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Am I missing something here? A lot of this argument revolves around geography; who is further from what, which part of which nation gets all the finance etc. So, prophead, can you explain how Gatwick would be your local airport, yet your profile claims you are in Berkshire? I was wondering as I haven't seen Gatwick being dragged up the M4!
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I haven't lived there for a while now. Just never got round to changing it.
Anyway, here are some recent links to back up the points I have been making.
http://www.cityam.com/287399/easyjet...-fares-and-new
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news...eight-14740999
https://www.thebusinessdesk.com/york...ation-capacity
https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....sion-1-9011890
Anyway, here are some recent links to back up the points I have been making.
http://www.cityam.com/287399/easyjet...-fares-and-new
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news...eight-14740999
https://www.thebusinessdesk.com/york...ation-capacity
https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....sion-1-9011890
Last edited by Prophead; 12th Jun 2018 at 08:15.
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Dave R
You are absolutely correct and I totally agree it is somewhat tedious rehashing known arguments, however I think the Heathrow arguments (and indeed Crossrail2, etc etc etc ), have to be set across the backdrop of what can only be described as the utter chaos continuing on the railway network across The North Of England. This is exemplified by 26 Northern titles all carrying the same banner headline , as well as ITV combining their regional news feed last night so it covered Lincolnshire to Merseyside and Cheshire to the Scottish Borders. A cancelled train in London means one may have to wait 20 mins for the next, a canx train up North and it can be 2 hours before another appears . If you rely on rail for work and that happens two days on the bounce you might be looking for new employment !
Unfortunately I hate to say this but because ITS NOT LONDON it’s not in the London based media pyche. Had the same problems been experienced by London commuters you can bet your bottom dollar Marr, Peston, Newsnight, Pienarrs Politics etc would have been dragging ministers into the studio to explain what the hell they intend to do about fixing it. Heathrow spend is front and centre because The North appears to many of us to be transparent as far as Westminster and The BBC are concerned. The platitudes by Grayling to fix the problem seem empty , blame culture is rampant there is no fix in sight. Contrast this with wholesome support for Heathrow, in Westminster, by comparion it appears to have little scrutiny. The BBC as ever remains oblivious, some might say “compliant” !I won’t bore readers with detail but the frustration is all to obvious with recent rail infrastructure in the North of a paltry £200m, “cue klaxon alert from TheNorthernPowerhouse” although modest projects implemented in The North have been somewhat “half cock” so in effect even this modest amount of money has in effect been wasted. Its like building Heathrow rw3 but without the terminals. When experts have indicated that an extra £200m would fix a particular project and be transformational their arguments are consigned to the bottom draw of a cabinet in Whitehall marked “ to do 2026”, if we are lucky.
The sums invested in The North are pitifully modest but given we are coming from such a low base they would make an incredible differenceThe media up North recognise the shortfall , they are as one, they are furious that we are simply not being heard, the rage is palpable so when Heathrow is seemingly signed off and indeed Crossrail without reference to articles and indeed criticism which has been referenced in The FT, Sunday Times, Daily Telegraph is it no wonder many feel like venting their spleen
You are absolutely correct and I totally agree it is somewhat tedious rehashing known arguments, however I think the Heathrow arguments (and indeed Crossrail2, etc etc etc ), have to be set across the backdrop of what can only be described as the utter chaos continuing on the railway network across The North Of England. This is exemplified by 26 Northern titles all carrying the same banner headline , as well as ITV combining their regional news feed last night so it covered Lincolnshire to Merseyside and Cheshire to the Scottish Borders. A cancelled train in London means one may have to wait 20 mins for the next, a canx train up North and it can be 2 hours before another appears . If you rely on rail for work and that happens two days on the bounce you might be looking for new employment !
Unfortunately I hate to say this but because ITS NOT LONDON it’s not in the London based media pyche. Had the same problems been experienced by London commuters you can bet your bottom dollar Marr, Peston, Newsnight, Pienarrs Politics etc would have been dragging ministers into the studio to explain what the hell they intend to do about fixing it. Heathrow spend is front and centre because The North appears to many of us to be transparent as far as Westminster and The BBC are concerned. The platitudes by Grayling to fix the problem seem empty , blame culture is rampant there is no fix in sight. Contrast this with wholesome support for Heathrow, in Westminster, by comparion it appears to have little scrutiny. The BBC as ever remains oblivious, some might say “compliant” !I won’t bore readers with detail but the frustration is all to obvious with recent rail infrastructure in the North of a paltry £200m, “cue klaxon alert from TheNorthernPowerhouse” although modest projects implemented in The North have been somewhat “half cock” so in effect even this modest amount of money has in effect been wasted. Its like building Heathrow rw3 but without the terminals. When experts have indicated that an extra £200m would fix a particular project and be transformational their arguments are consigned to the bottom draw of a cabinet in Whitehall marked “ to do 2026”, if we are lucky.
The sums invested in The North are pitifully modest but given we are coming from such a low base they would make an incredible differenceThe media up North recognise the shortfall , they are as one, they are furious that we are simply not being heard, the rage is palpable so when Heathrow is seemingly signed off and indeed Crossrail without reference to articles and indeed criticism which has been referenced in The FT, Sunday Times, Daily Telegraph is it no wonder many feel like venting their spleen
Last edited by Navpi; 12th Jun 2018 at 10:36.
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Navpi,
We have been told throughout this thread that the railways are good enough to get people from all over the north to MAN. Obviously, as you have outlined, this is not the case and a short shuttle flight, in comfort with bags already checked is a much better option.
I am not sure that the commuters unlucky enough to use Southern Rail to commute into London would agree with your comments about a 20 min max wait. Rail travel seems to be an issue over the whole of the UK. Crossrail is an answer to the overcrowded GWR and the services from Essex. These have, for many years, been massively overcrowded and suffered from cancellations. I used it do this daily and wouldn't wish it on anyone. I have also commuted from Leeds to Manchester and that was also crowded but nothing compared to the daily commute into London and the hell that is the tube.
All these projects, Crossrail, HS2, HS3 etc. are aimed at transforming the railways. Yes, London may be the first in line but I am confident they will all happen. The problem is everybody wants better transport but nobody wants to be inconvenienced by it's construction, nobody wants to pay for it and everybody wants their daily commute to be first in line for upgrading. If we could only get on and build these large projects without endless consultations driven mainly by politics, greed and NIMBYism then we would be a lot further down the line with a national upgrade and be doing it considerably cheaper.
We have been told throughout this thread that the railways are good enough to get people from all over the north to MAN. Obviously, as you have outlined, this is not the case and a short shuttle flight, in comfort with bags already checked is a much better option.
I am not sure that the commuters unlucky enough to use Southern Rail to commute into London would agree with your comments about a 20 min max wait. Rail travel seems to be an issue over the whole of the UK. Crossrail is an answer to the overcrowded GWR and the services from Essex. These have, for many years, been massively overcrowded and suffered from cancellations. I used it do this daily and wouldn't wish it on anyone. I have also commuted from Leeds to Manchester and that was also crowded but nothing compared to the daily commute into London and the hell that is the tube.
All these projects, Crossrail, HS2, HS3 etc. are aimed at transforming the railways. Yes, London may be the first in line but I am confident they will all happen. The problem is everybody wants better transport but nobody wants to be inconvenienced by it's construction, nobody wants to pay for it and everybody wants their daily commute to be first in line for upgrading. If we could only get on and build these large projects without endless consultations driven mainly by politics, greed and NIMBYism then we would be a lot further down the line with a national upgrade and be doing it considerably cheaper.
I recently attended the network rail consultation for the western rail link to Heathrow, 5 questions in hand.
Q1 who is funding, Ans DfT, maybe a PFI in part. Q. Are Heathrow contributing? They have promised.
Q2 the under cut to the start of the tunnel and embankment works will that block the main line between Slough and Paddington. Ans Yes their will rail possessions, bus replacement and lengthy delays.
Q3 are the plans embedded with R3 plans, Ans Yes we have met with R3 planners.
Q4 is there capacity for four trains per hour between Heathrow westwards to Reading. Ans there will have to be timetable changes. So there is capacity why not use it now on that line? No answer.
Q5 operators? No franchise arranged, not a premium service but we hope to join the Heathrow line to continue to terminal 2.
So a new line to Heathrow for their benefit etc, unlikely to be paid by Heathrow but taxpayers, reduced rail service to London from Slough to make room plus timetable changes - now we know that will be fun.
Q1 who is funding, Ans DfT, maybe a PFI in part. Q. Are Heathrow contributing? They have promised.
Q2 the under cut to the start of the tunnel and embankment works will that block the main line between Slough and Paddington. Ans Yes their will rail possessions, bus replacement and lengthy delays.
Q3 are the plans embedded with R3 plans, Ans Yes we have met with R3 planners.
Q4 is there capacity for four trains per hour between Heathrow westwards to Reading. Ans there will have to be timetable changes. So there is capacity why not use it now on that line? No answer.
Q5 operators? No franchise arranged, not a premium service but we hope to join the Heathrow line to continue to terminal 2.
So a new line to Heathrow for their benefit etc, unlikely to be paid by Heathrow but taxpayers, reduced rail service to London from Slough to make room plus timetable changes - now we know that will be fun.
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So a new line to Heathrow for their benefit etc, unlikely to be paid by Heathrow but taxpayers, reduced rail service to London from Slough to make room plus timetable changes - now we know that will be fun.
unlikely to be paid by Heathrow
To be fair Heathrow's owners have been messed about considerably with the whole third runway fiasco and have had to foot the bill for all the delays and redesign works. After what happened with the Crossrail link I would be cautious in making concrete promises too.
The Western rail link has an outline design but once it goes out to tender this design will be improved and pulled apart by the various contractors and the final layout will likely be different to what they have now.That being said they would be crazy to come out and say there will be no delays. One of the high scoring items by the winning bidder will be how they mitigate the disruption to existing services but at some point there will be a connection made or heavy plant used near the line that requires temporary closures.
Crossrail will take much of the strain off of the existing GWR line so the capacity that will be available then is not necessarily available now.
There is no doubt that, third runway or not, a rail link out west without the need to change at Hayes is needed and long overdue.
from?
network rail consultation staff present. No material in consultation about funding.
Crossrail/Elizabeth line requires timetable changes to allow access to existing track capacity, threaded between slow stopping services not going to Heathrow. They are using slow tracks only.
Temporary closures not benefitting local and long distance trains, all back on the bus.
network rail consultation staff present. No material in consultation about funding.
Crossrail/Elizabeth line requires timetable changes to allow access to existing track capacity, threaded between slow stopping services not going to Heathrow. They are using slow tracks only.
Temporary closures not benefitting local and long distance trains, all back on the bus.
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Temporary closures not benefitting local and long distance trains, all back on the bus.
If I does not directly benefit me or it may inconvenience me in any way then I am against it.
At some point you or your relatives may need to use it to get to LHR and a few disrupted journeys would be a distant memory.
It's the price of progress and should this attitude have been allowed to dictate large projects in the past, we would not have the tube, the mainline railways or most of the motorways.
It is this attitude that makes it so difficult to build anything in the UK.
If I does not directly benefit me or it may inconvenience me in any way then I am against it.
At some point you or your relatives may need to use it to get to LHR and a few disrupted journeys would be a distant memory.
It's the price of progress and should this attitude have been allowed to dictate large projects in the past, we would not have the tube, the mainline railways or most of the motorways.
If I does not directly benefit me or it may inconvenience me in any way then I am against it.
At some point you or your relatives may need to use it to get to LHR and a few disrupted journeys would be a distant memory.
It's the price of progress and should this attitude have been allowed to dictate large projects in the past, we would not have the tube, the mainline railways or most of the motorways.
Surprisingly I support the link, BUT, not as taxpayers from the whole of UK funding it for a few, when they are not improving rail links elsewhere for millions of folk. This will be loss making line, passengers will have to get to 3 stations by road and no long term parking available at the stations.
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The project is a Network Rail project aimed at easing congestion from Paddington out to Hayes and on the M4/M25.
It will allow passengers and staff to travel in from the West without going further into London and back out. It is not some kind of park and ride aimed at people leaving their cars at Slough or Langley Long term whilst jetting off somewhere.
Taken from NR themselves the benefits include:
It will allow passengers and staff to travel in from the West without going further into London and back out. It is not some kind of park and ride aimed at people leaving their cars at Slough or Langley Long term whilst jetting off somewhere.
Taken from NR themselves the benefits include:
- Reduce rail journey times between Reading and Heathrow by delivering a new, faster, frequent, more reliable direct train service to Heathrow with four trains per hour in each direction. All trains would call at Reading and Slough and alternate trains at Twyford and Maidenhead. Journey times could be as short as 26 minutes from Reading and 6 to 7 minutes from Slough.
- Significantly improve rail connectivity to Heathrow from the Thames Valley, South Coast, South West, South Wales and West Midlands.
- Provide an alternative form of transport for passengers and the large number of people who work at the airport who are currently travelling by road.
- Ease congestion on roads, including the M4, M3 and M25 resulting in lower CO2 emissions equivalent to approximately 30 million road miles per year.
- Generate economic growth and new jobs across the Thames Valley and surrounding areas.
- Reduce passenger congestion at London Paddington.
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"We have been told throughout this thread that the railways are good enough to get people from all over the north to MAN. Obviously, as you have outlined, this is not the case and a short shuttle flight, in comfort with bags already checked is a much better option"
Well you have surpassed yourself phead.
What your paragraph above has got to do with a lack of investment in eg Liverpool Leeds rail is anybodies guess . What I outlined was the appalling state of Northern infastructure structure. Nothing more, Nothing less , The End.
Meanwhile back in the real world Willie Walsh is scathing describing the cost of Heathrow Rw3 as outrageous.
http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/305619/heathrow-runway-cost-outrageous-says-iags-willie-walsh
He is quite rightly deluded is he not phead.
Well you have surpassed yourself phead.
What your paragraph above has got to do with a lack of investment in eg Liverpool Leeds rail is anybodies guess . What I outlined was the appalling state of Northern infastructure structure. Nothing more, Nothing less , The End.
Meanwhile back in the real world Willie Walsh is scathing describing the cost of Heathrow Rw3 as outrageous.
http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/305619/heathrow-runway-cost-outrageous-says-iags-willie-walsh
He is quite rightly deluded is he not phead.
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Navpi, you said it yourself. On the one hand we are being told we don't need more domestic flights to LHR because the railways provide easy access to MAN from all over the North. Then you come along and tell us the railways in the North are ' in utter chaos' (your words post # 671) . At least keep your arguments consistent. Are the railways good enough to give large parts of the north good access to MAN? Yes or No?
He is trying to protect his business and has been saying he is against it for years. Do keep up.
He is quite rightly deluded is he not phead.