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-   -   Heathrow-2 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599818-heathrow-2-a.html)

DaveReidUK 12th Jul 2017 06:46

HAL is expected to announce today that it will not proceed with its revised planning application for the post-Cranford enabling works that would allow full runway alternation on easterlies.

Instead, any substitute plans will be bundled in with the Development Consent Order that will form part of the Runway 3 planning process, which in turn will have to await the outcome of the public consultation on expansion.

Heathrow says it understands the frustration of residents to the west of the airport (particularly in Windsor) caused by the further delay, which will mean that for the foreseeable future almost all arrivals will continue to use the northern runway (09L) when the airport is operating on easterlies.

Trinity 09L 12th Jul 2017 17:01

I can confirm the above as announced today by HAL.
They could not explain where the new taxiways would be, or why they had not planned correctly beforehand. The cost of the appeal against the original decision which HAL won, falls to the residents of LB Hillingdon as wasted exercise. HAL believe the new taxi ways will change a noise footprint on the ground.
However not doing the work they wanted now saves them considerable money, as it would have to be removed in future for R3. Also if the easterly ops went ahead then a whole new set of residents would be greeted with a new overflying noise footprint on departures ie the NE corner of LHR.

Seljuk22 13th Jul 2017 17:18

SAS Ireland to base 5 A320neo to take over existing routes from SAS out of LHR
SAS Ireland startet in London-Heathrow und Malaga

DaveReidUK 15th Jul 2017 10:37

*Quietest airline at Heathrow? Hint: don't ask the airport!
For several years, Heathrow has published a quarterly league table as part of its FlyQuiet programme showing which airlines perform best on several noise metrics, although it has never disclosed exactly how the rankings are worked out. BA Short Haul always manages to come top of the table. :O

This year Heathrow has commendably not only added two more emissions-related metrics (hence now "Fly Quiet & Clean"), but has also revealed for the first time the process used to derive the overall league table positions, based on the rankings for each individual metric. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to have grasped how its own methodology works, and as a result has made a complete dog's breakfast of calculating the league table positions and points.

BA Short Haul (as usual) is shown as top, but should be down in fifth place based on its individual metric rankings (it's near the bottom on one of the emissions metrics).

Some airlines (for example PK, TK, LY) get more than twice as many points as their performance actually merits and CX gets a 14-place hike up the table from where it should be.

Carriers that should be tied on points based on their metric rankings (e.g. American and Aegean) finish up to 9 places apart in the league table.

Expect the dodgy results to be pulled and correct ones substituted pretty soon, but in the meantime they can be viewed here: The League Table Q1 2017

*So who IS the quietest/cleanest airline at LHR? Based on the published metrics, Aer Lingus can now claim BA's title, accompanied on the podium by Finnair and Etihad in second and third place, respectively.

Trinity 09L 15th Jul 2017 17:00

If an airline changes the equipment (eg at short notice) who checks that the substitute aircraft in use meets the noise restrictions required by Heathrow.:hmm:
If a vehicle with a defective exhaust or is overweight then Police or DVLC deal.

Skipness One Echo 15th Jul 2017 18:35

What are you thinking about specifically? The world of aviation is remarkably uniform, A320s predominate. It's been a while since I've even seen an MD80 at LHR. The problem, if there even is one, is tiny.
May I ask, are you a local resident affected badly by living near LHR? Genuine question.

Trinity 09L 16th Jul 2017 19:16

Specifically - noise out of hours. The type - A340 probably at max weight embarking on a 13.5hr non stop flight. The airline is not featured in the top 50 of the list from Heathrow, and of late is persistently delayed late in arrival and departs after the curfew. I regret I have been around since Viscounts Vanguards 880/ & Coronado's. My location is obvious. Can you answer my original question?

commit aviation 16th Jul 2017 19:29

The process that I am aware of (albeit for a different airport) would require the airline to supply a noise certificate prior to a slot being issued. If it exceeds the approved noise quota then a slot would not be approved.

Trinity 09L 16th Jul 2017 19:35

Thank you "Commit" I hope LHR abide by transparency in their reply.

commit aviation 16th Jul 2017 19:51

All the detail is on the Gov website if you want it under Night Flying Restrictions at Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted Airports. It is due to be superseded by a new arrangement from this winter I understand.

DaveReidUK 16th Jul 2017 21:38

The Night Flying Restrictions detail which aircraft types are and aren't allowed to operate at Heathrow during the night and, for those that are, they specify the amount of Noise Quota each movement consumes (based on certificated noise values for the type in question).

That's distinct from actual noise per departure, which comes from readings from fixed monitors located at the 1000' point (6.5 km from the start of roll). That data is used to established whether or not a noise infringement has occurred.

Skipness One Echo 17th Jul 2017 12:06

@Trinity 09L is the real issue for you not 09L is being used for night departures more? That's what's bugging you? I live in Feltham so I get them on 09R but it doesn't bother me. Now my neighbours smoking and whispering in Polish after 9pm drives me nuts.....

Trinity 09L 17th Jul 2017 19:27

I would refer you to my post 5006, and the latter post on a specific unnamed airline that was departing west. Your last sentence is worthy of moderating.

Skipness One Echo 17th Jul 2017 21:21

Why? I can't understand a word, that's a form of torture for me in the same way that un-named (Virgin Atlantic or Phillipine Airlines) heavy A340s are to you. People whispering and smoking pot beneath my window annoy me more than 777s heading for the far east. People get annoyed for different reasons but the Cranford Agreement is gone and a third runway is coming so late evening 09L departures will likely be more common to share the noise pain.
If it materially affects your life, you need to move. Honest answer.

Also to be clear, there is NO curfew per se. There are restructions on out of normal hours ops but no curfew. The number of nights 09L is even used post 2300 and the said A340 has been delayed can be counted on one hand I would think? The last A340 heading West is the VS025 about 8pm btw.

compton3bravo 18th Jul 2017 07:14

Sorry I have no sympathy with those who complain about the noise near Heathrow or its flightpaths unless you moved to the area before 1946 when London Airport opened. End of.

Trinity 09L 18th Jul 2017 10:09

"The last A340 heading West is the VS025 about 8pm btw."
PR flight an A340/300 or 600 scheduled to depart at 22.20 either west or east depending on ops.

Porky Speedpig 18th Jul 2017 11:20

Originally Posted by Trinity 09L (Post 9834430)
"The last A340 heading West is the VS025 about 8pm btw."
PR flight an A340/300 or 600 scheduled to depart at 22.20 either west or east depending on ops.

PR must be a -300 (they have no -600s). I have watched this take off from the other end of route - classic "airborne due to the curvature of the earth" job.

Skipness One Echo 18th Jul 2017 14:19

PR flight an A340/300 or 600 scheduled to depart at 22.20 either west or east depending on ops.
It's a -300, far from the noisiest aircraft at LHR, and bound for Manila so heading East. If you download fr24 on your smartphone it will answer all these questions for you.

118.70 18th Jul 2017 15:19

Cranford Agreement is gone and a third runway is coming so late evening 09L departures will likely be more common to share the noise pain.
Aren't the north-turning departing flights from 09L unprotected by the 6.5km noise monitors ?

The July 2014 "Decision" on the position for new monitors said :

We have therefore decided that the proposed sites (and their positional adjustments) are the best available and should be implemented accordingly at the approximate locations indicated in the Stage 2 Consultation document, although we accept that the precise location for any new monitor may be subject to final landowner agreement.
To operate the northern runway efficiently for easterly departures, and following any final planning approval, changes are first required to some of Heathrow's taxiways which we understand could take several months (or years). However, we see no reason for this to delay any new monitoring arrangements, as 09L departures are currently not prevented from taking place when operational conditions allow.
What chance them getting them up and running ?

ZOOKER 18th Jul 2017 15:22

It's odd how all the complaints around EGLL centre on aircraft noise. The place is surrounded by motorways and trunk-roads, yet you never hear a squeak from The Cockenese about the continuous row all the road traffic makes.

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