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Cardiff-2

Old 13th Aug 2020, 09:24
  #1601 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Originally Posted by TOM100 View Post
I think the last few months have demonstrated what is on sale and what actually flies can be quite different. TUI are still selling Spain, Canaries and Balearics for the end of this month - will they fly ?
Given current data, and the rapid rise in cases at the Balearics now, not a chance. They should be honest with the travelling public and stop taking booking for the rest of the summer season, not just from Cardiff, but for the whole UK. I could be so disingenuous as to suggest it's a blatant cash flow improvement exercise to carry on taking people's money for holidays they can be pretty certain won't operate.
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 09:29
  #1602 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDXCWL45 View Post
Yep there is a possibility that some flights won't operate but that is completely out of the airports control. I think the last 6 months has shown that the airport is completely at the mercy of airlines.
i don’t fully agree with that last statement - the airport is fully in charge of a large chunk of their operating expenses and commercial activities. That’s like saying my local shop can do nothing unless customers walk through his door (which in the literal sense of course is correct) but if he has a commercial strategy to offer a diversified range of products, keeps his pricing keen, markets his shop intelligently and keeps his overhead costs low so he can invest in the former - he stands a better chance of getting people through the door and making money.

if the customers don’t come in the volume he needs - he needs to adapt by reducing cost to adjust to the volume reality, adjust his strategy, go out of business or hand over to someone else with new ideas and more forward thinking who can make a success of his business. He doesn’t have the option of saying well what can I do I am at the complete mercy of the customers who won’t come !
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 09:49
  #1603 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
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Originally Posted by TOM100 View Post
i donít fully agree with that last statement - the airport is fully in charge of a large chunk of their operating expenses and commercial activities. Thatís like saying my local shop can do nothing unless customers walk through his door (which in the literal sense of course is correct) but if he has a commercial strategy to offer a diversified range of products, keeps his pricing keen, markets his shop intelligently and keeps his overhead costs low so he can invest in the former - he stands a better chance of getting people through the door and making money.

if the customers donít come in the volume he needs - he needs to adapt by reducing cost to adjust to the volume reality, adjust his strategy, go out of business or hand over to someone else with new ideas and more forward thinking who can make a success of his business. He doesnít have the option of saying well what can I do I am at the complete mercy of the customers who wonít come !
But the local shop owner can stock his shop with the products he needs to attract his customers into the store. Brand's like coca cola or walkers don't tell him that he can only stock certain items or that he can't stock their brand at all because they want his customers to go to the tesco down the road. Unlike an airport which is dependent on the airline choosing to fly from there.
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 09:57
  #1604 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TOM100 View Post
i donít fully agree with that last statement - the airport is fully in charge of a large chunk of their operating expenses and commercial activities. Thatís like saying my local shop can do nothing unless customers walk through his door (which in the literal sense of course is correct) but if he has a commercial strategy to offer a diversified range of products, keeps his pricing keen, markets his shop intelligently and keeps his overhead costs low so he can invest in the former - he stands a better chance of getting people through the door and making money.

if the customers donít come in the volume he needs - he needs to adapt by reducing cost to adjust to the volume reality, adjust his strategy, go out of business or hand over to someone else with new ideas and more forward thinking who can make a success of his business. He doesnít have the option of saying well what can I do I am at the complete mercy of the customers who wonít come !
And the problem with their operating expenses is that they do not fall in proportion to the numbers of passengers the airport handles, and the balance sheet only worsens if they try and buy their way out of trouble by pretty well paying airlines to operate from the airport. I just wonder how much did Flybe actually contribute to the airport's koffers. I would suggest that directly it did little, and the business routes such as the domestics are largely travelled by people who don't spend in the shops and may not even park in the car parks.

Then the other issue you have is the relative wealth of the catchment area, and it is undeniable that the per capita income on the English side of the Severn Bridge, and the catchment for Bristol is very much higher than you'll find in South Wales. That means that airlines have to think very hard before investing equipment and marketing to a spread of destinations such as Bristol enjoys. Some routes that are good earners from Bristol probably wouldn't work from Cardiff. That's a shame, and it will take a lot of hard work from the Welsh Government to get the inward investment that will lead to increased wealth, and help Cardiff airport.

That doesn't mean for a moment that Cardiff is a basket case, things were going in the right direction until the double whammy of Flybe's demise and Covid-19 reared their ugly head. Cardiff is probably no worse off than many UK airports at the moment, aside of probably EMA because of it's cargo operation. Passenger wise it's still dire.
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 10:12
  #1605 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardiff
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Is the senior Management team also running St Athan and the passenger services at Valley?
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 12:34
  #1606 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by caaardiff View Post
Is the senior Management team also running St Athan and the passenger services at Valley?
i believe they are but those operations are chickenfeed in the scheme of things and there hasnít been a regular pax operation at Valley for months.....I get other airports are in a similar position but are their management structures as heavy and being paid for by taxpayers ? I honestly donít know the answer to that question.....
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 13:06
  #1607 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Originally Posted by TOM100 View Post
i believe they are but those operations are chickenfeed in the scheme of things and there hasnít been a regular pax operation at Valley for months.....I get other airports are in a similar position but are their management structures as heavy and being paid for by taxpayers ? I honestly donít know the answer to that question.....
i understand that the contention of CWL being public owned and managers paid for by the taxpayer etc but it really has been done to death on this forum. Maybe a letter or email to your AM would be more appropriate and beneficial than an online forum?
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 14:36
  #1608 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by caaardiff View Post
Is the senior Management team also running St Athan and the passenger services at Valley?
Yes they are.
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 14:52
  #1609 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardiff
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Originally Posted by TOM100 View Post
i believe they are but those operations are chickenfeed in the scheme of things and there hasnít been a regular pax operation at Valley for months.....I get other airports are in a similar position but are their management structures as heavy and being paid for by taxpayers ? I honestly donít know the answer to that question.....
My point being, even without passenger operations, things still need to be done, especially at CWL and St Athan. So the senior team you seem adamant are useless and inefficient are effectively running 3 businesses. The current structure isn't that much bigger than it was before WG ownership, yet although the Airport hasn't expanded, the business has.
I really would love to see how it can be done better.
The hard work and diversification that has already happened seems to have been forgotten about.
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 15:02
  #1610 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by caaardiff View Post
My point being, even without passenger operations, things still need to be done, especially at CWL and St Athan. So the senior team you seem adamant are useless and inefficient are effectively running 3 businesses. The current structure isn't that much bigger than it was before WG ownership, yet although the Airport hasn't expanded, the business has.
I really would love to see how it can be done better.
The hard work and diversification that has already happened seems to have been forgotten about.
i would love to see the commentators on here run their own business with their own money. This is just a planesotters wet dream involved here. Again, not really any point in commentating -l let’s just let the WG pour endless amounts of money into what is a failing business with a consenusus no sign of proper return until at least 2023. Its all just a bit silly. Look at other aviation businesses (all reducing costs permanently). CWL do what you like, spend what you want at least we set some good pics! Totally remove from reality ! Don’t worry tho the WG can just keep throwing money their way......

Last edited by TOM100; 13th Aug 2020 at 15:16.
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 15:14
  #1611 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Originally Posted by caaardiff View Post
My point being, even without passenger operations, things still need to be done, especially at CWL and St Athan. So the senior team you seem adamant are useless and inefficient are effectively running 3 businesses. The current structure isn't that much bigger than it was before WG ownership, yet although the Airport hasn't expanded, the business has.
I really would love to see how it can be done better.
The hard work and diversification that has already happened seems to have been forgotten about.
Many coherent businesses have different divisions/sections/specialisms. That in itself doesn't make it harder to run, it spreads the overhead over a wider base.
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 15:28
  #1612 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
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Just out of curiosity did this management team do any marketing to have C19 redundant airliners parked-up at St Athan?
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 18:07
  #1613 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2017
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Oh im a tit I have just been googling what a C19 Airliner is and who flies them. I need to get out more.
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 18:11
  #1614 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Maybe it’s down to who shouts loudest and has the most clout?
Up here on Teesside we have a mayor..who has a seemingly endless pot of money to help a ..let’s face it..struggling airport survive ?

I would have thought Cardiff..capital of one of the home nations would have more requirements for a thriving ,well run ,economically desirable airport than here?

Who knows!🤔
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 18:34
  #1615 (permalink)  
 
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The Tees Valley Mayor doesn't have "seemingly endless pot of money", but he does have a develeopment budget from central govt, part of which he has chosen to spend on the airport as part of his strategy for increasing inward investment - to quote, "inward investment won't arrive at the bus station, it will walk through the terminal doors".

Where that approach differs to Cardiff is that the WG approach seems to be that the airport is being run as a stand-alone business, without this explicit "global connectivity" aim (or have I missed it?)

What is missing in both cases is transparency on what taxpayers money is being used for, and any controls around govt supported businesses competing against private businesses
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 13:09
  #1616 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cardiff
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
The Tees Valley Mayor doesn't have "seemingly endless pot of money", but he does have a develeopment budget from central govt, part of which he has chosen to spend on the airport as part of his strategy for increasing inward investment - to quote, "inward investment won't arrive at the bus station, it will walk through the terminal doors".

Where that approach differs to Cardiff is that the WG approach seems to be that the airport is being run as a stand-alone business, without this explicit "global connectivity" aim (or have I missed it?)

What is missing in both cases is transparency on what taxpayers money is being used for, and any controls around govt supported businesses competing against private businesses
What worries me when the airport is being run at armís length on a commercial basis is the amount of commercial experience the directorís have had at other airports. Apart from Spencer, who has had experience elsewhere, but has been promoted into his first senior position at CWL, who among the senior management has commercial experience at other airports?

At the Senedd Public Acoounts Committee of 02/03/2020 the senior management stood by their forecast of 2m. passengers and profitability by 2025. This was at the time when we were at risk of the epidemic in China becoming a global pandemic and three days before the flybe collapse when industry insiders could see what was coming. I thought it was an astonishing performance and not for good reasons.





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Old 14th Aug 2020, 14:14
  #1617 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by supermarine View Post
This is utter , utter madness. The new finance director is on an advertised salary of between £85- £90,000 per annum plus an £8k car allowance.

I really despair how this is justified.
This is about the going rate ,not outrageous particularly if you are seeking the right calibre of person.
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 14:49
  #1618 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Originally Posted by PDXCWL45 View Post
Yep there is a possibility that some flights won't operate but that is completely out of the airports control. I think the last 6 months has shown that the airport is completely at the mercy of airlines.
PDX I have read your submissions for numerous years and whilst they are mostly interesting and informative it does lead me to the conclusion you are actually a senior manager with Cardiff Airport or an employee.
I think you are missing the main point ,which Tom100 is making. Has the airport management taken any action in reducing their operating costs/overheads in the past three months? I am aware the C.E.O. has departed, why? Most would think she has done a first class job building CWL up. Is this an opportunity for a much needed restructure. A commercial business facing these difficult challenging times needs a strong FD as I stated in my previous posting the cost of the new FD is not extortionate and if he/she is worth their salt they will more than payback their salary package.
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 16:32
  #1619 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Midland Alpha9 View Post
PDX I have read your submissions for numerous years and whilst they are mostly interesting and informative it does lead me to the conclusion you are actually a senior manager with Cardiff Airport or an employee.
I think you are missing the main point ,which Tom100 is making. Has the airport management taken any action in reducing their operating costs/overheads in the past three months? I am aware the C.E.O. has departed, why? Most would think she has done a first class job building CWL up. Is this an opportunity for a much needed restructure. A commercial business facing these difficult challenging times needs a strong FD as I stated in my previous posting the cost of the new FD is not extortionate and if he/she is worth their salt they will more than payback their salary package.
MA9 - this is exactly my point. I feel for the airport - they couldnít control Flybe, obvs they canít control Covid but I do want to see them address their costs to take account of the new commercial reality. Aviation is not predicted to return to 2019 levels until 2022-2024 depending on whoís prediction is most accurate - so they need to take steps to address this beyond the end of furlough (and taking into account any statutory consultation, this should have started by now).

The analogy with my local shop, of course, is not a direct read across (which it was never meant to be) but just to illustrate some principles of doing business in any sector.

i want CWL to thrive, but that also means operating like a true commercial business and showing the leadership and the ability to be nimble - if they canít do this then it really does make you ask lots of questions about the real business credentials of their senior team.
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 21:31
  #1620 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 544
I like Deb, I have always got along well with her but hopelessly out of her depth as CEO. Embarrassing for her to have to stay on the Board while someone else takes her job.

I presume all the armchair CEOs on here will be putting in their application for the job.

Last edited by runway30; 14th Aug 2020 at 21:40. Reason: Giving ppruners the chance to run the Airport
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