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Cardiff-2

Old 17th Dec 2017, 11:16
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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I too fail to see Ryanair opening a base at Cardiff. They have a base very close by at Bristol and South Wales travellers appear happy to travel to BRS.

Further to that I cannot see the demand to support even just one based aircraft. Just where would they fy 14 to 21 weekly departures to?!
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Old 17th Dec 2017, 11:28
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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IF it were to happen I would have thought something similar to BOH
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Old 17th Dec 2017, 12:15
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Callum Paterson View Post
I too fail to see Ryanair opening a base at Cardiff. They have a base very close by at Bristol and South Wales travellers appear happy to travel to BRS.

Further to that I cannot see the demand to support even just one based aircraft. Just where would they fy 14 to 21 weekly departures to?!
Malaga, Ibiza, PMI, Alicante, Malta, Gran Canaria, Dublin, Rome, Krakow, Prague, Girona, Murcia are just examples. Plenty of places they can fly to from CWL new and underserved. They operate a 1 aircraft base at Bournemouth so why at Cardiff to complement it's base at BRS and steal a few welsh Easyjet passengers.
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Old 17th Dec 2017, 12:22
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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Because to introduce such routes from CWL they may be poaching some 40% of their pax from BRS thus both BRS and CWL routes would fail.

Is this Rocket Science or what?
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Old 17th Dec 2017, 13:19
  #145 (permalink)  
 
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Not necessarily they could end up poaching a lot of Easyjets passengers. Having a base at Cardiff doesn't mean the base at Bristol gets damaged. It's not always CWL or BRS. They can complement each other. TCX and TUI especially TUI are examples of that.
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Old 17th Dec 2017, 13:40
  #146 (permalink)  
 
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RYR operate out of CWL so have the details of what they're making on these flights.

Now, either they've not thought about operating more flights out CWL, or they have thought about it and decided against it.
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Old 17th Dec 2017, 13:50
  #147 (permalink)  
 
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Or are planning more routes for the future. It is possible they couldn't add anything new this year.
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Old 17th Dec 2017, 16:58
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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Jerry 6 of those routes are already operated from CWL. That would destroy yields for both carriers on those routes. If MJV and PRG would work from CWL then they would without a doubt already be operating from BRS.
Leave flybe to the city routes. Coax FR onto some sun routes where they have bases. Maybe even Norwegian as Vueling dont seem interested in new destinations.
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Old 18th Dec 2017, 07:27
  #149 (permalink)  
 
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caaardiff I know they are. If CWL is to get back to the 2 million passengers mark and then go above it, it will need an expansion of frequencies on many of those routes especially Alicante, Malaga and PMI. The only way that will happen is either by a massive expansion from Vueling (not likely) or by attracting a new carrier whether they are based or not. Whether it be Norwegian or Ryanair they will want to operate frequencies on those routes as they are the main earners at CWL and may well be considered under served like Faro and Tenerife were.
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Old 18th Dec 2017, 07:44
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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Jerry,

For years the only international business type routing CWL has had has been KLM, KLM have had the monopoly, I've used them myself because there was no other choice from CWL ... Well except that outbound I was ticketed with Air France travelling in a blue F70 to AMS.

I see many of you singing and dancing that Qatar have announced a CWL route from next year but has it occurred to any of you that Qatar are to take away the KLM monopoly to M. East and Asia and this might just impact upon KLM's loads and cause them to reduce their frequency of services or pull out of CWL altogether?

Similarly if a competitor, or competitors, spring up in competition to Vueling don't you think that may similarly pee Vueling off and cause them to reduce services or pull out of CWL altogether?

Why does CWL need an expansion of services, has there been a baby boom in S. Wales in recent years? I'm pretty sure that if the loads of Vueling and others were so great they would be increasing their services by themselves and not need prompting by airport enthusiasts.

Don't go shopping for jam if the bread and butter is likely to go walkabout!
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Old 18th Dec 2017, 10:36
  #151 (permalink)  
 
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Harry Wayfarers,
I too use KLM a lot to get to the US and i honestly don't think they will pull out or cut their frequencies because of Qatar. Their offerings at CWL are much more broader. People use them to fly to China, the USA, Canada, South America, Africa and all over the world. Also a lot people use them to fly to places in Europe from regional France, Eastern Europe, Italy , Germany and Norway are examples of destinations that i've heard people flying to using them. Qatar's focus is on attracting people flying to India, the Middle East, SE Asia and China using Heathrow to and from Wales and the South West and of course to attract the 90,000 people a year travelling between Wales and Australasia. Many of the adverts for Qatar for CWL feature Sydney quite prominently.

As for Vueling i agree if a competitor turned up and dumped 10 weekly flights on each of their routes then they'd likely run but if someone like Ryanair added 2 to 3 weekly flights on their routes then i don't see them going anywhere, the example of that is Faro Ryanair added 2 weekly flights and instead of cutting or pulling off Flybe have actually expanded from 4 weekly to 5 weekly flights. Vueling have slowly expanded their frequencies at CWL over the years. Whether they will continue to or actually can add more frequencies only time will tell.

Why does CWL need an expansion of services? Demand for flights from it's catchment area is high and will continue to grow as Wales gets wealthier and as tourism grows. If you look at the Flybe base it is generally doing quite well. They've provided the flights and people are using them. Roughly over 4 million people fly to and from the airports catchment area every year. 1.6 million of those use BRS, 1.3 million use CWL, 1 million use London airports and the rest use airports like BHX and MAN. The demand is there it's just not being served from South Wales at the moment and that is part of the airports challenge to get as many people flying for the holidays, weekend aways and business trips directly from Wales and not England, to boost the Welsh economy with better business links and provide tourists from all over the world direct or better access to Wales so they visit our beautiful country and spend their money here boosting the Welsh economy. To do that it needs airlines and routes and more frequencies on routes as well.

P.S the numbers I gave are from 2016 and from a progress report/presentation done by the Airport to the Senedd at the beginning of the year. Pretty sure it's online somewhere.
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Old 18th Dec 2017, 10:41
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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A case of "be careful what you wish for". However I'm sure that AF/KL will be doing an ongoing an analysis of what percentage of their CWL/AMS business connects onward to destinations served through Doha, but to retain the business and compete, I think they'd be more likely to retain the frequency but trip capacity should push come to shove
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Old 18th Dec 2017, 11:17
  #153 (permalink)  
 
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As for Vueling i agree if a competitor turned up and dumped 10 weekly flights on each of their routes then they'd likely run but if someone like Ryanair added 2 to 3 weekly flights on their routes then i don't see them going anywhere
Jerry ... Subtlety isn't RYR's strongest suit ... Just ask their pilots

I too use KLM a lot to get to the US and i honestly don't think they will pull out or cut their frequencies because of Qatar. Their offerings at CWL are much more broader. People use them to fly to China, the USA, Canada, South America, Africa and all over the world. Also a lot people use them to fly to places in Europe from regional France, Eastern Europe, Italy , Germany and Norway are examples of destinations that i've heard people flying to using them.
With a somewhat restriction on business type routes from BHX in the some four years that I utilised from BHX the likes of LH, SAS, KLM, AF and Swiss I do admit that the majority of my ultimate destinations were in Europe, Sweden, Latvia, Ukraine, Italy, Romania, Germany but such was the nature of my work, I did utilise Swiss one time round trip HKG and my KL/AF from CWL was outward to SIN and return from MNL.

The CWL KLM route, as I recall, started with a once or twice daily F27 combined with BRS, then CWL got it's own SF340's, then F27's and/or F50's, then F70's and up to three rotations daily, more recently some description of Embraer ... however many seats they may have, I mean KLM have dpne everything for that route to work for the CWL catchment area and whether or not Qatar impacts upon them by 5 or 10 or 15% Qatar shall impact upon them.

P.S the numbers I gave are from 2016 and from a progress report/presentation done by the Airport to the Senedd at the beginning of the year. Pretty sure it's online somewhere.
Can you go fetch me the salt cellar please!
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Old 18th Dec 2017, 12:59
  #154 (permalink)  
 
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When it comes to KLM and AMS it is essentially a Sky Team route and if you look at other airports in the UK they go up against not only the ME3 but other hub airlines and seem do fine a those airports. If you take Newcastle as an example they are not only up against Emirates daily 777 but the BA LHR shuttle and Aer Lingus and even there own partners Air France yet they regulary use 737 aircraft on most of the frequencies. The airport growing with people in Wales fly more from Cardiff then that can only benefit them in the long run.
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Old 18th Dec 2017, 13:55
  #155 (permalink)  
 
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I too use KLM a lot to get to the US and i honestly don't think they will pull out or cut their frequencies because of Qatar.
I wouldn't bet on it.

Jerry, you certainly can't knock your enthusiasm and passion for CWL. It's great to see such support. But I do feel there needs to be an air of caution against anything major happening at CWL. The market is slim. No matter how much you compare CWL to other Airports around the UK, CWL could well be in a sticky situation. BE growing it's city routes could affect KLM. QR will likely effect KLM. KLM could throw it's toys out of the pram and shift capacity over to BRS, where it knows Welsh passengers will fly from.
Look at how much publicity QR have had over the launch, no doubt that has got KLM's backs up. I noticed that a sudden KLM campaign started out of nowhere a few weeks after the QR launch.
Same with FR. FR are a business, they aren't a business that are known for making business friends and working in co-operation with other Airlines.

What CWL needs to do is make it profitable for the Airlines. If that means restricting growth to support current Airlines then so be it, provided those Airlines show some sign of growth. Look at the comment regarding BRS and Jet2, where they want to continue to support their current Airlines growth rather than create a blood bath.
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Old 18th Dec 2017, 14:14
  #156 (permalink)  
 
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I guess we will see in the future but I'd be very shocked and surprised if KLM left the airport over the arrival of Qatar and any future growth especially as KLM and Air France and partners are expanding their offerings from CWL with the new Jet Airways codeshare and expanded Air France codeshares on Flybe's CDG service.
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Old 18th Dec 2017, 14:43
  #157 (permalink)  
 
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Just seen an article on Wales Online and the first 2 destinations mentioned are Sydney and Amsterdam!
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/stunning-destinations-you-can-fly-14043109.amp?__twitter_impression=true
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Old 18th Dec 2017, 14:46
  #158 (permalink)  
 
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Jerry123's example of NCL isn't a bad one - new airlines don't just cannibalize existing operators, but also stimulate the market.
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Old 18th Dec 2017, 22:14
  #159 (permalink)  
 
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Amongst other things Newcastle does not have a much bigger rival just 50 miles away from which it's immediate catchment are more than happy to use at the drop of a hat. Cardiff does.
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Old 18th Dec 2017, 22:30
  #160 (permalink)  
 
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With GLA and EDI the introduction of ME routes with EK/QR etc - pax numbers to AMS KEF and DUB transit hubs increased, so I wouldnt worry about losing those. Whether QR can fill a 787 is another story....
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