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Prestwick-2

Old 14th Aug 2017, 14:00
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Prestwick-2

Is the main cause of the loss due to the running costs of the terminal, or is it more deeply rooted than that.

Could PIK with assistance from the Scottish Govt look at a new terminal akin to what Inverness or even Southend have. Would be more fit for purpose and running costs should be reduced some what from the aging existing building.
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Old 14th Aug 2017, 14:38
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Originally Posted by goldeneye View Post
Is the main cause of the loss due to the running costs of the terminal, or is it more deeply rooted than that.

Could PIK with assistance from the Scottish Govt look at a new terminal akin to what Inverness or even Southend have. Would be more fit for purpose and running costs should be reduced some what from the aging existing building.
Southend's new terminal cost 10m, nevermind the additional demolition costs for the current PIK terminal.

All that just to build another loss making public funded airport with a few FR flights to med destinations would be ridiculous, IMO.
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Old 14th Aug 2017, 15:26
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Originally Posted by mwm991 View Post
Southend's new terminal cost 10m, nevermind the additional demolition costs for the current PIK terminal.

All that just to build another loss making public funded airport with a few FR flights to med destinations would be ridiculous, IMO.
What would you propose to do, as the political will at the Scottish Govt is to keep the airport open and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
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Old 14th Aug 2017, 16:08
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Originally Posted by TRN1K View Post
So you would take maybe 3 Ryanair's a day, a freighter if lucky, no regular USAF?

What about the days around 2006/7, when PIK was supporting several daily 747s, North American 767s, high levels of USAF (granted, during 2 full scale wars in the Middle East), booming Ryanair, a brilliant charter programme?
All the traffic under Hudson team was self generated. Yes the era you speak of was exceptional, but the majority of that fell in Prestwicks lap as you say due to the conflicts in the Middle East.

I hope to god there is life in the old dog yet, but as the days, weeks and years go on, I am sadly becoming less and less convinced.
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Old 14th Aug 2017, 16:13
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The airport just needs one big announcement at the terminal to get the place buzzing again and I imagine they will be working hard to achieve that goal and then some.
Like what? Really, like what? This is a fantasy. By all means support your local team but please, @TRN1K, select one airline that you honestly think will drive sufficient passangers through PIK to make money.

Matthew Hudson was a commercially aware businessman who I believe sunk some of his own money into PIK / ACAP. He was realistic and pretty ruthless to save the airport from closure. This allowed the business to be sold to Stagecoach and later Infratil who between them, completely lost control of costs.
Main deck cargo is going away, Air France are not replacing their last two B777Fs, Singapore are folding Cargo back into mainline as it shrinks, Polar and Atlas have gone. I wasn't suggesting replacing the terminal, I was suggesting building a slightly more fit for purpose GA facility on Apron G. Close the terminal and sell off the land.

I hope to god there is life in the old dog yet, but as the days, weeks and years go on, I am sadly becoming less and less convinced.
Agreed, I was a passionate supporter for years then moved away and saw the big old world. Kinda heart breaking to see what's happenend but this can't go on.
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Old 14th Aug 2017, 18:54
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Originally Posted by beyond the boundary View Post
All the traffic under Hudson team was self generated. Yes the era you speak of was exceptional, but the majority of that fell in Prestwicks lap as you say due to the conflicts in the Middle East.

I hope to god there is life in the old dog yet, but as the days, weeks and years go on, I am sadly becoming less and less convinced.
In 1982, by reports, Ascension Island became the world's busiest airport but I don't believe very much is happening there now!
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Old 14th Aug 2017, 20:12
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Echo View Post
Agreed, I was a passionate supporter for years then moved away and saw the big old world. Kinda heart breaking to see what's happenend but this can't go on.
If it was a dog, and you were kind, you'd call the vet...

However I do wonder if the taxpayers cash could be better spent on creating new jobs elsewhere. There is an inevitability here which means that every month they keep in operational as it is, that's less money available for investing in jobs elsewhere.
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Old 3rd Sep 2017, 09:00
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Originally Posted by beyond the boundary View Post
As an avid supporter and former employee of Prestwick Airport(not Greer or Landmark I may add) it breaks my heart to see the state the airport finds itself in.
Forgetting the passenger side of things, Prestwick Handling was meant to be the saviour of the airport.

Unfortunately Belfast, Glasgow and Edinburgh are all having other ideas. I cannot remember Glasgow or Edinburgh having so much military traffic as they do now. Traffic that once upon a time was Prestwick regulars.


Belfast (Global Trek) are on a whole new level however. In the last 2 months they have scored upwards of 50 USAF C-130`s. This is not to mention US Navy C40`s and USAF C-40`s regularly going through the Irish airport. The majority of this traffic previously used Prestwick.

Incredibly Prestwick have an exclusive military fuel contract that should have the US military flocking to the airport in there droves. However quite the opposite is happening.

Cargo is also down and indeed the W/B CLX772 has been lost on the Monday night. There also seems to be no urgency to chase other types of traffic - ferry flights etc.

Now spotters on here will try and say how busy the place is with C-17`s etc, but these are few and far between. The majority of days the ramps are empty.
Handling are very poor and I've no doubt this is why a lot of traffic is leaving for other airports.

Something is seriously wrong, new management seem to be worse than the last Infratil team, with the main gripe being that the current management are surrounding themselves with people who are ex-colleagues, and have very little knowledge of how things work.

I`m sorry, but the airport I have supported and loved all my life is on it`s knees, and barring a miracle is finished.
Just wondered if BTB would care to give us an update on the BFS v PIK military traffic since his last post? Seeing as BFS are "on a whole new level". Be good to see what PIK has to aspire to.
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Old 3rd Sep 2017, 18:52
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Originally Posted by Aftershock View Post
Just wondered if BTB would care to give us an update on the BFS v PIK military traffic since his last post? Seeing as BFS are "on a whole new level". Be good to see what PIK has to aspire to.
Before we start conversations, might i remind you and everyone that belfast is not irish, there are plenty of atlases and maps out there if people want to look and see! As for global trek at bfs, 4 maybe 5 hercs a week sometimes 6 or more at once!🖒
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Old 3rd Sep 2017, 19:34
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BTB probably wouldn't care to recognise the score, if keeping score, for the past week, is PIK about 20, BFS about 2.
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Old 3rd Sep 2017, 22:48
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What's the difference in profit and loss between PIK and BFS since we're keeping score?
2016 passenger volumes :
PIK 600K
BFS 4.3M‪

The number of weekly C130s is perhaps not the smartest KPI.....
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Old 4th Sep 2017, 03:07
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Best maybe you changed your handle S1E, you are in the running for the most anti PIK person on PPRuNe, without a doubt, I reckon you are pretty out of touch as to why PIK is still in existence.
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Old 4th Sep 2017, 04:17
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Enlighten me why PIK still exists in terms of what cannot be done sensibly elsewhere without raiding the schools and NHS budget to subsidise Michael O'Leary.

Do we really need a seperate airport for Cargolux and Air France Cargo?
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Old 4th Sep 2017, 09:38
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Echo View Post
Enlighten me why PIK still exists in terms of what cannot be done sensibly elsewhere without raiding the schools and NHS budget to subsidise Michael O'Leary.

Do we really need a seperate airport for Cargolux and Air France Cargo?
We shouldn't need a separate airport for heavy freighters, but it is a fact that the privatised city airports in Scotland cannot land these aircraft especially in the wet and are showing no sign of extending their runways. The owners of EDI are in fact going to build offices on the only runway that they could possibly extend without moving the railway.
They would probably also be unable to send a freighter direct to destinations like Los Angeles from Scotland.

Exports that are trucked to England get claimed as UK exports and the resultant figures are used in political propaganda against the Scottish people.

I'm sure that MOL is smart enough to use this situation to his advantage.
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Old 4th Sep 2017, 09:41
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might i remind you and everyone that belfast is not irish, there are plenty of atlases and maps out there if people want to look and see!
Well, I have just looked at one and Belfast appears to me to be in Northern IRELAND!!! If you are saying Belfast is not "irish" then, by the same token, Prestwick is not "scottish".
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Old 4th Sep 2017, 10:16
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Originally Posted by Groundloop View Post
Well, I have just looked at one and Belfast appears to me to be in Northern IRELAND!!! If you are saying Belfast is not "irish" then, by the same token, Prestwick is not "scottish".
Trust me buddy, this is not an argument you want to get involved in. Just because Belfast is in NI doesn't mean it's Irish, it's Northern Irish. There's a difference, and quite a crucial one at that.

But back to airport talk. Honestly I think that Prestwick should be closed and redeveloped. Ryanair are on their way out of PIK anyway and will most likely move all services to GLA in the near future.
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Old 4th Sep 2017, 11:09
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Originally Posted by Rob Royston View Post
We shouldn't need a separate airport for heavy freighters, but it is a fact that the privatised city airports in Scotland cannot land these aircraft especially in the wet and are showing no sign of extending their runways.
Wishful thinking on your part. With the forthcoming expansion of GLA towards the river there will be new maintenance and cargo space created. GLA representatives have already been talking to Cargolux earlier this year with a view to moving their services once the work is complete in 2019 !
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Old 4th Sep 2017, 14:02
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Originally Posted by billyg View Post
GLA representatives have already been talking to Cargolux earlier this year with a view to moving their services once the work is complete in 2019 !
That's interesting. From what I can see GLA offers 7000ft landing distance coming in over the motorway, measured from the aiming point to the runway end, and only 6500ft from the Clydebank end. That's well below the Boeing figures for a fully laden 747-8F.
Prestwick has 8300ft on runway 30 and 7500ft on runway 12, which is itself a bit tight in some conditions.
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Old 4th Sep 2017, 15:45
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Landing distance is measured from the threshold not the aiming point and assumes aircraft crosses the threshold at 50 feet
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Old 4th Sep 2017, 16:35
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Landing Distances Available from the AIP:

Glasgow 05: 2661m
Glasgow 23: 2356m

Prestwick 12: 2743m
Prestwick 30: 2986m
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