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Southend-2

Old 23rd Jan 2018, 16:04
  #701 (permalink)  
 
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On the business aviation front, the proximity of the train station is an irrelevance for the passengers, nobody ever uses the train. Might be useful for the crews. Of the central London-destined or originated business aviation passengers, a fairly small proportion are heading for the City/Canary Warf/Docklands, far more heading for Kensington, Knightsbridge, Belgravia etc. - west to north-west of the centre. The drive to/from Southend is a good 35 minutes plus more to those areas vs. say Luton. Fuel price is important, outweighs any cheap landing/handling offer. Trouble is Southend has had and promoted their business aviation handling facility for many years - nothing has changed other than they now have a wood-burning stove for the crew to stare at...
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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 16:38
  #702 (permalink)  
 
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fairflyer

You make a good point regarding SEN's additional driving time to the West End and that is bound to have an effect. But what is the size of the LON market in terms of business aviation - around 100,000mpa isn't it? It would seem that Stobart, internally at least, recognise their limitations by setting a target of just 5,000mpa in 4 years time.

I don't agree that "nothing has changed". It certainly has on the ground as far as the facility is concerned whether one appreciates the decor or not and what I always felt lacking in the past was the management drive and the funding to market the facility adequately. Perhaps this time that aspect will be properly managed. Time will tell.
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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 17:35
  #703 (permalink)  
 
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Here's a question. Is demand growing for business aviation? I would have thought with shareholders increasingly challenging remuneration / perks for Head Honchos and senior people, and the taxman ready to jump on anyone trying to evade/avoid VAT etc when purchasing the means to fly; not forgetting a groundswell of disgust against those who prosper beyond normal folks' dreams, even when they offer little or nothing to those at the bottom of the food chain, then it would be surprising if there was huge growth in demand.

I don't know the answer, most of you will. Demand will be a key factor in SEN's prospects though.
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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 17:39
  #704 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
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The Carlisle based aircraft will operate the following schedule:

CAX-SEN
SEN-CAX
CAX-BHD
BHD-CAX
CAX-DUB
DUB-CAX
CAX-SEN
SEN-CAX

So it will be possible to spend the day in London/Lake District.

Last edited by tws123; 23rd Jan 2018 at 21:34.
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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 17:40
  #705 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Holvanflutol
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Ostend-Southend used to be very popular in the past.
Don't understand why nobody tried to restart the line in the past.
Ryanair tried it at Stansted a few years ago but wanted a occapancy of 80%(had a average of 70%) with timings not so favourable and with a way too large aircraft.

A ATR600 or even Embraer 195 would be more suitable for a flight under one hour.
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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 18:08
  #706 (permalink)  
 
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Has it been confirmed that it will be Belfast International they will fly into from Carlisle?
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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 19:21
  #707 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by asdf1234 View Post
That's a bit harsh FM. Most punters don't use the lounge, they walk straight through (via the baggage screen) to the aircraft. It's the pilots and hostesses that use the lounge whilst they are waiting for the punter. For them the lounge at SEN is warm, comfortable and inviting.
They just need a bucket of horse chestnuts to roast in the fire and Southend will have cracked the FBO market.

On a serous note it does look like someones country cottage with the fireplace, log fire, furniture and decorations and not at all like an FBO. Great place to go though in the festive season if they pipe Last Christmas around the building and put up a Christmas tree.

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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 20:48
  #708 (permalink)  
 
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What are the flight times ?
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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 20:55
  #709 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
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Originally Posted by OSTpax View Post
Ostend-Southend used to be very popular in the past.
Don't understand why nobody tried to restart the line in the past.
Ryanair tried it at Stansted a few years ago but wanted a occapancy of 80%(had a average of 70%) with timings not so favourable and with a way too large aircraft.

A ATR600 or even Embraer 195 would be more suitable for a flight under one hour.
I'm not sure it had an occupancy as high as that. It was served by the Buzz 146s, not the 738. And fares were rarely higher than about 20.
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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 21:29
  #710 (permalink)  
 
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I will correct my post as it is Belfast City airport that will be connected not Belfast International. The flight times are still to be confirmed. All that has been said is the rotations per day and that the London Airport will be SEN (surprise surprise).
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Old 24th Jan 2018, 08:01
  #711 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tws123 View Post
The Carlisle based aircraft will operate the following schedule:

CAX-SEN
SEN-CAX
CAX-BHD
BHD-CAX
CAX-DUB
DUB-CAX
CAX-SEN
SEN-CAX

So it will be possible to spend the day in London/Lake District.
In January 2009, at the time that Stobart were in the process of buying CAX, I produced for SEN a detailed proposal to connect CAX with SEN to form part of an operation similar to the above but with SEN as the radial point during the day.

CAX-SEN
SEN-AMS
AMS-SEN
SEN-CFR
CFR-SEN
SEN-AMS
AMS-SEN
SEN-CAX

Possible operators were VLM, Aer Arann or Eastern using F50, S2000 or ATR42 with flights bookable through to AMS for CAX passengers. I notice that I stated "Obviously the infrastructure for commencing services between CAX and SEN is some way from being in place ...." It's taken some time hasn't it!
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Old 24th Jan 2018, 11:49
  #712 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
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Originally Posted by AirportPlanner1 View Post
I'm not sure it had an occupancy as high as that. It was served by the Buzz 146s, not the 738. And fares were rarely higher than about 20.
Hi, need to correct you on this one.
They flew with a 737-300(or 200).
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Old 24th Jan 2018, 13:51
  #713 (permalink)  
 
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No I need to correct you. I flew on it. Twice.
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Old 24th Jan 2018, 14:51
  #714 (permalink)  
 
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Stobart (actually WA Developments) bought Carlisle airport in April 2006, and were talking about scheduled flights then (though Luton was the first proposed route). As I think DC3 Dave said, nowt but persistent!

Last edited by SWBKCB; 24th Jan 2018 at 14:52. Reason: clarafication
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Old 24th Jan 2018, 15:24
  #715 (permalink)  
 
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You may be right that WA Developments, Andrew Tinkler's company, bought CAX in 2006 but I think it was sold to Stobart Group in 2009.
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Old 24th Jan 2018, 16:01
  #716 (permalink)  
 
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I thought they were all part of the same group - certainly they were talking about a Stobart HQ on site when it was bought.
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Old 24th Jan 2018, 20:48
  #717 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
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Originally Posted by AirportPlanner1 View Post
No I need to correct you. I flew on it. Twice.
My sincere apologies, you are right.
Ryanair used 21 times, in their 8 months operations at OST, a BAe 146-300 from Buzz airlines.
Mostly in October 2003.
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Old 26th Jan 2018, 18:32
  #718 (permalink)  
 
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Two airlines are in discussions with Stobart Air about the CAX services. Hopefully will be announced in the next couple of weeks.
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Old 26th Jan 2018, 22:37
  #719 (permalink)  
 
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VLM? Eastern? DAT? The latter have the right equipment and flew for Stobart previously
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Old 27th Jan 2018, 06:09
  #720 (permalink)  
 
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We are talking to a couple of airlines. We have Stobart Air in our back pocket but it may be that another airline or aircraft type might work better in the early years of operation. We have to make sure that we get our predictions right and have the right sort of aircraft for the right sort of volumes to the right sort of places. It is more about getting the right size of plane, the right destination and the frequency. We will be announcing the carrier very early in the New Year. We are not looking at using 737s at the start, they will be a lot smaller.
This is the quote from the end of last year from Stobart - I think most people (including me!) have read it as meaning initially it will be smaller than an Atr (and Stobart have previously quoted the flights as being done by an Atr-42).
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