Southend-2
SSJ100
The SSJ100 was recertificated earlier this year with a reduced landing distance at Maximum Landing Weight of 1425 metres. The news release does not specify whether this is wet or dry, but neither was this clarified for the previous "brochure" figure of 1630m.
http://atwonline.com/airframes/ssj10...-short-runways
In reality MLW is not a constraint in normal operations in areas like Europe where there are many alternate airfields. The practical limitation is the Landing Distance Required at full commercial payload plus normal fuel reserves remaining plus a margin acceptable to the operator. This should be well below MLW. MLW is likely only to become an issue when there is a need to carry large quantities of extra fuel for e.g. Tankering for economy reasons, or anticipated prolonged holding due to weather, or possibly due to a late programme shuffle the aircraft is overfuelled for the required sector.
My guess (without detail figures to back it up) is that wet landing distance at SEN is not now an issue though it coukl still be the case at LCY.
In passing I note the expected announcement of SSJ100 steep approach approval for LCY operations has not yet materialised. Is this situation because the City Jet operation a LCY is now so scaled down that the special recertification is no longer so important and City Jet will continue with the RJ85s at LCY well into the future i.e to 2022 ?
The SSJ100 was recertificated earlier this year with a reduced landing distance at Maximum Landing Weight of 1425 metres. The news release does not specify whether this is wet or dry, but neither was this clarified for the previous "brochure" figure of 1630m.
http://atwonline.com/airframes/ssj10...-short-runways
In reality MLW is not a constraint in normal operations in areas like Europe where there are many alternate airfields. The practical limitation is the Landing Distance Required at full commercial payload plus normal fuel reserves remaining plus a margin acceptable to the operator. This should be well below MLW. MLW is likely only to become an issue when there is a need to carry large quantities of extra fuel for e.g. Tankering for economy reasons, or anticipated prolonged holding due to weather, or possibly due to a late programme shuffle the aircraft is overfuelled for the required sector.
My guess (without detail figures to back it up) is that wet landing distance at SEN is not now an issue though it coukl still be the case at LCY.
In passing I note the expected announcement of SSJ100 steep approach approval for LCY operations has not yet materialised. Is this situation because the City Jet operation a LCY is now so scaled down that the special recertification is no longer so important and City Jet will continue with the RJ85s at LCY well into the future i.e to 2022 ?
Last edited by Tagron; 11th Nov 2017 at 10:11. Reason: Amended link
Tagron
Thanks for that update. I'ts a pity that website requires a subscription to read the full details of the modifications that have been made.
I agree with you that SEN should not normally present a problem to any SSJ that has had the necessary mods incorporated but I calculated that the unmodified aircraft, with normal regulatory reserves, could have been severely payload limited in Wet conditions. The declared LDA at LCY is 1,319m.
Thanks for that update. I'ts a pity that website requires a subscription to read the full details of the modifications that have been made.
I agree with you that SEN should not normally present a problem to any SSJ that has had the necessary mods incorporated but I calculated that the unmodified aircraft, with normal regulatory reserves, could have been severely payload limited in Wet conditions. The declared LDA at LCY is 1,319m.
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LONDON SOUTHEND AIRPORT EGMC
Gentlemen
Please do not dismiss my comments below out of hand it is written because of my life in aviation which started at EGMC and led me into a career which I could never had dreamed of when at school the place has a very special place in my heart so here I go.
Having spent the first 15 year of my career in aviation, A time which was much loved by me, there was so much to learn at Southend from the late 1950s working with ACL/CAB/BUAF/BAF, MY INTRODUCTION TO THE INDUSTRY MUST HAVE BEEN ONE OF THE BEST TRAINING GROUNDS IN AVIATION AT THE TIME I LEARNED SO MUCH FROM THE WORLD WIDE OPERATIONS OF AIR CHARTER’S YORKS, TUDORS, SKYMASTER AND LATER THE BRITANNIA & THE CARVAIR WHEN WORKING IN OPERATIONS AND ELSEWARE IN THE COMPANY, I ended my career on retirement with 52 Years under my belt having travelled the world and including spending 10 years in the USA for HLA ,
Now back to the present time please be patient with me as I am just saying this from feelings in my Aviation heart,
I am appalled by the complete negativity of so many of the people who contribute to this forum. It’s as if many contributors feel that if Stobart’s had not taken over the running of the Airport all things would now be OK (But realistically for those of us working in the industry we know this not to be true to me it is like the proverbial head in the sand syndrome) but the truth is that if Stobart’s had not come along the Airfield would have by now been sold and more than likely be a sprawling housing estate, This has happened to a number of Airfields around the world which have closed and SEN was ripe for this end because of its location, but if that had happened there would be nothing for any of you to whinge about, But for the intervention & far sighted ideas of the Stobart group, If you are real aviation enthusiasts and Airport supporters you should thank your lucky stars Stobart’s came along and took the Airport by the throat and dragged it into the 21 century.
All of a sudden, we seem to have an awful lot of so called Aviation financial and operational experts throwing their 10 pennyworth into the SEN pot, if that’s the case I would politely suggest that you should apply to EasyJet or Stobart Air and offer your wealth of aviation expertise to them, I am sure they would take onboard any worthwhile suggestions they think worthy of consideration to improve their already successful airport operations.
For the life of me I cannot understand why there is all the miserable sniping going on between people that are supposed to be interested in the Airports future, I can understand the dissenters from both LTN & STN (shame really as I spent a lot of time at STN when with both ACL & HLA and found it fascinating & interesting airfield but it’s now too big & Luton is another story altogether but let’s not get into that)
Southend has so much going for it now I think the recent diversions from LCY proves the point the money spent on the improvements and extension to the old ramp, taxiways (being re-laid) new apron lighting and application for planning permission to extend the terminal all adds to the attraction of SEN as a compact and efficient airport. If A/C are stacked and held off the Essex coast where is the best place to go SEN of course subject if it’s within the WX and Operational limits of the airframe involved, Again Stobart’s are to be applauded because otherwise you would have nothing to talk or dare I say to moan about. Come on guys lets be happy you have although a small but modern airport to use and enjoy and complement Stobart’s for their imagination foresight & financial clout in bringing our Airport back from the brink.
The new routes are growing slowly but the world was not built in a day. Years ago, on evenings in the flare path club the members would often discuss this very subject of having a station and terminal on the eastern boundary and now thanks to the Airport operator we have but in those days, we never thought it would ever happen in our lifetime under Southend Corporation ownership.
Please don’t shoot me down I just feel that some of us have forgotten just what a sorry state the Airport was in when taken over from Southend Corporation, In that intervening time what massive strides under the management of Stobart’s the Airport has made, Finally I don’t have an axe to grind I just want the airport to succeed but a parting sentiment.
I do wish FAL’S (ACL) York’s ,Tudors & Overseas Aviation’s Argonauts were still there the sounds of RR MERLINS at 0700 in the morning were something to die for, So am I showing my age….??
I am sure you will all remember this when you are flying to the great maintenance hangar in the sky for your last check one & wishing you were back at SEN celebrating its success with a last drink to the Airport’s prosperity.
Please do not dismiss my comments below out of hand it is written because of my life in aviation which started at EGMC and led me into a career which I could never had dreamed of when at school the place has a very special place in my heart so here I go.
Having spent the first 15 year of my career in aviation, A time which was much loved by me, there was so much to learn at Southend from the late 1950s working with ACL/CAB/BUAF/BAF, MY INTRODUCTION TO THE INDUSTRY MUST HAVE BEEN ONE OF THE BEST TRAINING GROUNDS IN AVIATION AT THE TIME I LEARNED SO MUCH FROM THE WORLD WIDE OPERATIONS OF AIR CHARTER’S YORKS, TUDORS, SKYMASTER AND LATER THE BRITANNIA & THE CARVAIR WHEN WORKING IN OPERATIONS AND ELSEWARE IN THE COMPANY, I ended my career on retirement with 52 Years under my belt having travelled the world and including spending 10 years in the USA for HLA ,
Now back to the present time please be patient with me as I am just saying this from feelings in my Aviation heart,
I am appalled by the complete negativity of so many of the people who contribute to this forum. It’s as if many contributors feel that if Stobart’s had not taken over the running of the Airport all things would now be OK (But realistically for those of us working in the industry we know this not to be true to me it is like the proverbial head in the sand syndrome) but the truth is that if Stobart’s had not come along the Airfield would have by now been sold and more than likely be a sprawling housing estate, This has happened to a number of Airfields around the world which have closed and SEN was ripe for this end because of its location, but if that had happened there would be nothing for any of you to whinge about, But for the intervention & far sighted ideas of the Stobart group, If you are real aviation enthusiasts and Airport supporters you should thank your lucky stars Stobart’s came along and took the Airport by the throat and dragged it into the 21 century.
All of a sudden, we seem to have an awful lot of so called Aviation financial and operational experts throwing their 10 pennyworth into the SEN pot, if that’s the case I would politely suggest that you should apply to EasyJet or Stobart Air and offer your wealth of aviation expertise to them, I am sure they would take onboard any worthwhile suggestions they think worthy of consideration to improve their already successful airport operations.
For the life of me I cannot understand why there is all the miserable sniping going on between people that are supposed to be interested in the Airports future, I can understand the dissenters from both LTN & STN (shame really as I spent a lot of time at STN when with both ACL & HLA and found it fascinating & interesting airfield but it’s now too big & Luton is another story altogether but let’s not get into that)
Southend has so much going for it now I think the recent diversions from LCY proves the point the money spent on the improvements and extension to the old ramp, taxiways (being re-laid) new apron lighting and application for planning permission to extend the terminal all adds to the attraction of SEN as a compact and efficient airport. If A/C are stacked and held off the Essex coast where is the best place to go SEN of course subject if it’s within the WX and Operational limits of the airframe involved, Again Stobart’s are to be applauded because otherwise you would have nothing to talk or dare I say to moan about. Come on guys lets be happy you have although a small but modern airport to use and enjoy and complement Stobart’s for their imagination foresight & financial clout in bringing our Airport back from the brink.
The new routes are growing slowly but the world was not built in a day. Years ago, on evenings in the flare path club the members would often discuss this very subject of having a station and terminal on the eastern boundary and now thanks to the Airport operator we have but in those days, we never thought it would ever happen in our lifetime under Southend Corporation ownership.
Please don’t shoot me down I just feel that some of us have forgotten just what a sorry state the Airport was in when taken over from Southend Corporation, In that intervening time what massive strides under the management of Stobart’s the Airport has made, Finally I don’t have an axe to grind I just want the airport to succeed but a parting sentiment.
I do wish FAL’S (ACL) York’s ,Tudors & Overseas Aviation’s Argonauts were still there the sounds of RR MERLINS at 0700 in the morning were something to die for, So am I showing my age….??
I am sure you will all remember this when you are flying to the great maintenance hangar in the sky for your last check one & wishing you were back at SEN celebrating its success with a last drink to the Airport’s prosperity.
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I understand that you feel a great personal attachment to SEN, I don't understand why you felt you needed to make that post, or what you thought it could achieve.
I don't see people being negative about SEN; just people being realistic and pointing out the good (the great customer experience) along with the not so good (public transport problems) and the bad (limiting runway) as part of an objective assessment of its future.
The thing I often seem to find myself posting here is a reminder that we, and our views and musings, are unimportant. We do not affect SEN (or DTV or Powdair or whatever's) future by our opinions. If we all posted wonderful things about SEN it would still be an airport with strengths and weaknesses, and with a probably positive future but that has uncertain aspects.
I don't see people being negative about SEN; just people being realistic and pointing out the good (the great customer experience) along with the not so good (public transport problems) and the bad (limiting runway) as part of an objective assessment of its future.
The thing I often seem to find myself posting here is a reminder that we, and our views and musings, are unimportant. We do not affect SEN (or DTV or Powdair or whatever's) future by our opinions. If we all posted wonderful things about SEN it would still be an airport with strengths and weaknesses, and with a probably positive future but that has uncertain aspects.
G-AHNL
The simple answer is to use the Ignore List. In this way you can eliminate all the posters that you find vexatious.
Those that snipe or sneer, or continually repeat the same mantra year after year, or seem to use the thread as a dumping ground, or appear driven by their spotter allegiancies (Your airport is inferior to mine) - they are all on my Ignore List .
My Ignore List is short but it has taken out at least 35 posts in the last few days alone, which is saying something. No doubt the facility will go into overdrive now. But in this way I can focus on those who bring actual news of events, and the very few more thoughtful commentators.
01475 is correct to point out that all the opinions expressed on this forum will have not the slightest impact in the real aviation world. Aviation professionals will see the dross posts for what they really are and stay away.
You can find the Ignore List facility at User CP: Settings and Options.
The simple answer is to use the Ignore List. In this way you can eliminate all the posters that you find vexatious.
Those that snipe or sneer, or continually repeat the same mantra year after year, or seem to use the thread as a dumping ground, or appear driven by their spotter allegiancies (Your airport is inferior to mine) - they are all on my Ignore List .
My Ignore List is short but it has taken out at least 35 posts in the last few days alone, which is saying something. No doubt the facility will go into overdrive now. But in this way I can focus on those who bring actual news of events, and the very few more thoughtful commentators.
01475 is correct to point out that all the opinions expressed on this forum will have not the slightest impact in the real aviation world. Aviation professionals will see the dross posts for what they really are and stay away.
You can find the Ignore List facility at User CP: Settings and Options.
G-AHNL
You make some good points and I agree that the current situation at SEN is way better than it almost certainly would have been had Stobart not bought the Lease in 2008.
My background is similar to yours as I started my aviation career at SEN after leaving school and remained there for over 20 years. However I became involved with SEN again about 10 years ago working for a third party so have not been limited to an outsider's view regarding more recent events. Great things have been achieved and if, as looks likely, SEN achieves 1.5m pax in 2018 that would have been snatched with both hands just a few years ago. Some people point out that Stobart's pax targets are not being met and that is true but if you look at almost any UK airport's 5 or 10 year plans historically you will find the same thing so Stobart are not alone in their optimism.
However regarding the "complete negativity" of some contributors, whatever their motives. sometimes they are making valid points. Nobody can deny that the lack of any public transport services for travellers on the first wave of SEN departures is a fact and a very regrettable one. Hopefully once the Crossrail works are all completed there will be capacity to provide earlier and later trains but that is some way off. To state that the current situation cannot be helpful to the success of newly launched routes for example is not being negative in my view.
I keep to myself my personal views on some aspects of SEN's operations due to my awareness of some of the problems they face but I look forward to seeing your future contributions to this thread.
You make some good points and I agree that the current situation at SEN is way better than it almost certainly would have been had Stobart not bought the Lease in 2008.
My background is similar to yours as I started my aviation career at SEN after leaving school and remained there for over 20 years. However I became involved with SEN again about 10 years ago working for a third party so have not been limited to an outsider's view regarding more recent events. Great things have been achieved and if, as looks likely, SEN achieves 1.5m pax in 2018 that would have been snatched with both hands just a few years ago. Some people point out that Stobart's pax targets are not being met and that is true but if you look at almost any UK airport's 5 or 10 year plans historically you will find the same thing so Stobart are not alone in their optimism.
However regarding the "complete negativity" of some contributors, whatever their motives. sometimes they are making valid points. Nobody can deny that the lack of any public transport services for travellers on the first wave of SEN departures is a fact and a very regrettable one. Hopefully once the Crossrail works are all completed there will be capacity to provide earlier and later trains but that is some way off. To state that the current situation cannot be helpful to the success of newly launched routes for example is not being negative in my view.
I keep to myself my personal views on some aspects of SEN's operations due to my awareness of some of the problems they face but I look forward to seeing your future contributions to this thread.
Last edited by Expressflight; 12th Nov 2017 at 09:30. Reason: rephrasing
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Leave emotions at the door. This is business. Shareholder capital investment is the grease on the wheels. Wish STOB good luck. However, this is a public forum of debate with varying points of views from posters. I hope posters here are not suggesting censorship of views that do not fit a particular narrative. Bottomline, everyone wants the best for SEN, even those who robustly and healthly challenge. Yes, there are some real complex challenges in making SEN a big success story but equally there have been fantastic strives forward with marked progress which have dramatically improved the airport. So, play nice people - healthy debate is so valuable, and always conducted with respect and manners towards one another.
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In passing I note the expected announcement of SSJ100 steep approach approval for LCY operations has not yet materialised. Is this situation because the City Jet operation a LCY is now so scaled down that the special recertification is no longer so important and City Jet will continue with the RJ85s at LCY well into the future i.e to 2022 ?
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A Cityjet SSJ100 turned up at SEN at 19.20 hrs on Friday 27th October according to the Airport's arrival page as WX9071 from Pisa. Planefinder confirmed it as EI-FWB which later departed to Dublin.
I would imagine it brought in passengers so obviously had no problems with the runway. I can't recall what the weather was like that day, but as we seem to miss most of the rain in this corner of the country in all probability the runway was dry.
I would imagine it brought in passengers so obviously had no problems with the runway. I can't recall what the weather was like that day, but as we seem to miss most of the rain in this corner of the country in all probability the runway was dry.
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I can assure you that for an airport of a similar size the Southend forum is far more lively than the SOU thread with an equal amount of negativism and positivity.
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Does anyone have any views on the FBO facility that appears to have been set up. Is it operational, has it been used and how does it differ from what was offered in the past?
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A Stobart Rail video showing this year's airside works being carried out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr881CqN6jE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr881CqN6jE
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That's an excellent video thanks for sharing.
It's a shame that my local airport at Southampton isn't in a position to have extra aprons added as seen in the video.
Southend has come along in such a big way in such a short time and from what I've seen it has great potential going forward and to be honest I'm rather jealous as to what has been achieved at Southend in recent years compared to nothing at SOU.
It's a shame that my local airport at Southampton isn't in a position to have extra aprons added as seen in the video.
Southend has come along in such a big way in such a short time and from what I've seen it has great potential going forward and to be honest I'm rather jealous as to what has been achieved at Southend in recent years compared to nothing at SOU.